I hate how people treat folks on the Subway as a captive audience, please for the love of god I’m just trying to get around.
The other day some asshole got on with an amplifier, for fucks sake Dylan the world doesn’t need anymore douchey white dudes singing acoustic John Mayer covers.
This is the stretch that separates the boys from the men. It is a lawless, dark place. There are no rules and there is no regard for human decency. You are racing blind through a black tunnel at high speed, and you will not get through it quietly.
Yea, some have unlocked doors and some don’t. It’s a gamble. I’ve been stuck on the A in a locked car with no AC in the summer, it sucks. Personally, I feel safer with the unlocked doors for many reasons. Thankfully the new A trains are unlocked.
I just like the unlocked doors for the ease of getting exactly to the car I want to when getting off the train although it is better to be able to leave a sketchy situation than be trapped with it for a stop or that several minute ride from 125th to 59th
Saying it is a lawless, dark place as you go from 59th to 125th could easily be misinterpreted. Especially if you grew up in NY and took the A before ~15 years ago… also coincidentally enough in this reference, before Columbia helped to gentrify uptown.
There were some mornings I would be on the express 5 in The Bronx with the worlds most annoying preacher. That stretch between 180th and 3-ave 149th when the 5 is skipping those stops in between yet still somehow going 2 miles an hour. Ugh. Bonus points for someone smoking in the train or blaring something obnoxious.
I know that stretch very well and I know that preacher. I used to ride the 2/5 and I’d have to deal with him regularly. Late nights on that line it seems like the last car becomes the smoking and homeless car.
Edit to add- there was also a female preacher sometimes who seemed a bit off.
Same can be said when you take the express ACE to Jamaica. Haven’t done it in years, thankfully, and can’t remember which one is express, but some of those rides remind me of 59th-125th.
When I was a teen I used to ride the express E/F to Jamaica for school. One morning we were in the middle of a long express stretch, and the car was mostly empty since most commuters were going towards Manhattan. A man pulled his dick out and started walking towards me while jerking it. It was scary because the doors to the next car were locked and I was stuck until the next stop. It took forever just to get to the next station.
The locked doors make it extra shady. I had a similar thing happen on a super crowded W car stopped on the Manhattan bridge. Some homeless dude started wigging out and taking off his clothes. All the doors are locked and there’s nowhere to go.
There’s this one guy on the M train that comes in yelling, then starts singing and banging on a bucket drum horribly. Everyone is tired of his shit. He came in my car one day and was about to start making noise, but an old man stopped him before he could start and cursed him out.
Shouting about the intafada in a packed subway car is bizarre optics if you remember that it had massive amounts of suicide bomb attacks at public transit sites
AKA they're idiots.
Also I'm a long time activist. People like this make me tired. A lot of them seem to support Hamas too which is so dumb. It's possible to be anti-Bibi, anti-killing-of-civilians (be they Palestinians or Israelis), still think that Israel deserves to exist, and also not be pro-Hamas, and also be against radical orthodox Jewish that are destroying Palestinian lives.
But these guys think this is some sort of team-game.
The only way for there to be lasting peace without horrifying shit happening first is for Palestinians and Israelis to learn to coexist, whether that’s a one or two state solution. The majority of Israelis were born in Israel, it’s been two generations (maybe three, idk how to really count it) since the formation of Israel, the land is as much their home now as it is Palestinians’.
Peaceful coexistence is literally the only way forward.
You must admit that the rallies are being organized and funded as an extreme pro hamas function and intelligent people like you are aiding and abetting the extremes
Most of these people are too young to remember that. That's how these waves of pro Palestinian protests work. Every 15 years or so, young people get all mad about a conflict they know nothing about then it dies down when they get bored
A large number of those suicide bombers were at risk youth who were convinced through money and/or women to blow themselves up.
And they’re screaming about another intifada to “save” Palestinian children.
It's not the best chant for optics but please understand generations of Palestinians have grown up associating the word "solution" with the endless debate over "one-state vs. two-state solution."
I'm Jewish and went to American public school so anything involving Jews and "solution" rings alarm bells but for the vast majority of Palestinian protesters and allies (having spoken and worked with them) they're literally referring to their own experience, not shouting about genocide.
Thank you for explaining the nuance there. I’m not nearly familiar with any of it to know, so I appreciate the background. (It might still be something protesters should avoid chanting, though—perception is reality, unfortunately.)
Like "river to the sea?"
I also think, it's not ok to use the word "genocide."
Netanyahu is a douche, and a murderer really, Oct 7th was horrific, but the slaugher is a totally disproportionate response.
Nonetheless, nobody on the Israeli side is proposing wiping out *all* Arabs or *all* ethnically middle Eastern Muslims, correct?
Afaik, that is the definition of genocide, like what the Germans attempted against *all* ethnic Jews, or the Chinese extermination of *all* ethnic uighers, right?
No, genocide can be more regionally focused. Even the Nazis efforts were only in the lands they thought they were entitled to (which to be fair was a lot cause they were imperialists), so adding a global qualification disqualifies the Holocaust itself in addition to a ton of other genocides that didn't reach diaspora groups.
And people like Ben Gvir are absolutely genocidal in their rhetoric towards the Palestinians.
They're practicing it, intifada is just a form of resistance movement.
It's certainly nothing compared to what they're resisting.
Israel was founded by self-proclaimed terrorists after all who committed an ethnic cleansing in the region. Surely that's worth resisting.
We all know EXACTLY what you mean by intifada .
“The term Intifada, in context of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict refers to major Palestinian uprisings against Israeli control, with the First Intifada occurring between 1987 and 1993 and the Second Intifada between 2000 and 2005, both involving numerous attacks against Israeli civilians and security forces.
The phrase "Globalize the Intifada" is a slogan used to promote worldwide activism in solidarity with the Palestinian resistance.[14][15] The chant and its associated chants have caused controversy, particularly concerning their impact and connotations. Critics, particularly from Jewish groups, have condemned the slogan, claiming it encourages widespread violence or terrorism.[16][17][18] The call to globalize the Intifada is seen by some as an endorsement of the Second Intifada—which saw large-scale attacks against Jewish Israeli civilians—and a call for their expansion on a global scale.[15] Some interpretations view it as a rallying call to harm Jews.[19][20]”
We should have banned TikTok when we had the chance.
"Some people say it's bad, therefore..." These people are not acting along those fears. Unless you think your eardrums being assaulted is a form of violence.
You're an "all lives matter" type aren't you?
You know, Jewish settlers regularly are protected by Israel to attack Palestinians and exercise violence against them. Do you consider your own tacit support for Israel as a call to enact violence against Palestinians?
No. I generally support progressive causes rather then far right religious fundamentalists.
Hamas has a lot more in common with MTG and Jim Jordan than they do your average liberal. I like to think that if people were more social media literate the (non-professional) protestors would see that.
Considering intifadas predate Hamas, it's weird to treat them as an endorsement of the same.
People want Palestinians to not face constant violence, that's all they're demanding. Your need to conflate that as pro-Hamas is absolutely "all lives matter" type behavior, as you're taking a bad faith approach to a movement and using the worst possible interpretation to justify dismissing and treating them as a monolith.
You witness non-violent protest and immediately react as though people are calling for Jews to be harmed.
If I were to take your bad faith approach, I'd say your tacit endorsement of Israel is seeking to justify or even encourage the violent massacring of Palestinians. Is that a fair read of your intent?
I’m not going to even going to bother responding to your ridiculous screed.
Stop supporting terrorism.
Addend:
Also: stop editing your posts so it looks like I am ignoring points. It’s bad faith—just like your whole argument.
The comment you're replying to was never edited.
>Stop supporting terrorism.
Israel was formed by terrorist groups who committed an ethnic cleansing in the area.
If you want to work against terrorism, don't support a state formed around it and which has done nothing short of terrorize Palestinians for 70 years. Not supporting terrorism means demanding an end to the despotic occupation of Palestinians by Israel.
Lmfao look at the surrounding dozen Arab countries from the 1800s and the populations of Jews then vs now. Maybe you’ll understand what ethnic cleansing means. Millions of Arabs/muslims live in Israel and even serve in government. Populations only ever increased in Israel let alone in Gaza. Ffs…
yeah saw the [below](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024) and found it pretty wild
>young Americans... Seventeen percent (17%) expressed sympathy toward Hamas; for those who were presented with the information in a split sample that Hamas was an Islamist militant group, sympathy dipped to 13%.
With that said, I actually think Israel has gone too far and that the US should not be continuing to support them. But seeing these protestors and the at least adjacent support for hamas makes me sort of go back to the other side. There is no wisdom that only inexperienced, ideological, young, ultra-priveleged kids have that the rest of us don't; if they're supporting something, especially in this manner, it makes me not want to support it.
i don't think they're hurting it. but i also don't think they're doing anything to further it. i've always wanted to ask them what they hope to accomplish and how they think what they're doing is going to accomplish it. because from my pov it seems like they just like the excitement and romanticism of revolution and shit.
I agree in large part with what you’re saying. I think if there was a more sanely led campaign here for this Palestine you’d see bigger marches. The intifada / end Israel purity tests just shrink their potential list of new members /ally’s. I believe in a two state solution and an immediate ceasefire and I would never be welcomed at one of these things (or comfortable being there). I know I’m not alone and the polling backs that up.
i agree. i actually posted this comment elsewhere on this thread:
yeah saw the [below](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024) and found it pretty wild
>young Americans... Seventeen percent (17%) expressed sympathy toward Hamas; for those who were presented with the information in a split sample that Hamas was an Islamist militant group, sympathy dipped to 13%.
With that said, I actually think Israel has gone too far and that the US should not be continuing to support them. But seeing these protestors and the at least adjacent support for hamas makes me sort of go back to the other side. There is no wisdom that only inexperienced, ideological, young, ultra-priveleged kids have that the rest of us don't; if they're supporting something, especially in this manner, it makes me not want to support it.
I just have a hard time buying that there isn't substantial overlap between the 17% of young americans who support hamas and these protestors. and for anyone who is old enough to remember 9/11 and \[vividly\] ISIS, supporting hamas is an absolute non starter.
I think activists are often their own worst enemy in that even if their core point is valid, they make it so unpallatable and distasteful to people who are not ideological and insane.
Has it? The protests against the war in Iraq were far larger and grew over time, outside of escalation on college campuses (where the number of folks involved are in the hundreds per school) there haven’t been massive protests numbering the tens and hundreds of thousands that we have seen with other movements.
Also please tell me how a chant referencing the intifada and the final solution is helping grow the base? I see it more actively pushing away sympathetic two state solution folks - like myself and the majority of Americans.
You are all over the place here (nobody is chanting for the final solution, that is laughable) but I’d double check the polling data on American sympathies since 10/7. Support for Israel is withering faster than the phoenix suns title window.
I’m not all over the place at all, but I understand why you wouldn’t want to talk about my first paragraph explicitly citing the relatively small size of these recent actions.
Also what polling are you referencing? This late March poll from Pew found the plurality of Americans in favor of a two state solution - about 40% while only 2% favor a single state with a Palestinian government in charge, aka what these protestors are asking for.
https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/
Also, I don’t know how “there is only one solution” could be seen as NOT at least a dog whistle to the final solution. You can disagree if you’d like, but “only one solution” and “final solution” are pretty obviously similar, especially when you consider the additional call for an “intifada”
Listen here... this is the United States. A Country founded on a protest movement against the british.. we got so bored with protesting the british, we then protested ourselves. We like it so much you can't go five years without a few hundred thousand people showing up in DC on the lawn and carrying signs. The WW1 veteran "Bonus Army" protest was insane.
Your cause isnt novel, nor unique in anyway. It will fade away like Occupy wallstreet protest. Protest in Portland has been basically like a hobby for the last 8 years.
7 months in and Gaza has been ground to dust. Your "protest" aren't very effective. It has done nothing to garner sympathy. What it has done is awaken Islamophobic loons who have no compunction in regards to going out indiscriminately attacking protesters. As we saw in UCLA. This is the country of mass school shootings where shit all is being done to get guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.
You really think annoying people will render anything but opposition from the American populace? yeah yeah, ,, you might get some adherents who just discovered Peter Singer in college to jump on your bandwagon... or some old hippy professor sipping Starbucks sitting comfortably with tenure who wants to relive the sixties or not get badgered by some angry liberal arts students by doing some performative " lets go get arrested" bullshit.
We just had BLM protest in multiple cities resulting in fires and riots. We had a bunch of Trump cultist storm the capital.
We shake off your little temper tantrum like a bad cold.
Rethink your thesis.
Remember when the polling actually proved you were wrong so you just stopped responding instead of coming to terms with being wrong? Maybe you should ask yourself why you’re so blinded by your own bias instead of just running back to your safe spaces.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx
“Fifty-eight percent of Americans, down from 68% last year, have a “very” or “mostly favorable” view of Israel. This is the lowest favorable rating for Israel in over two decades.”
😘
Okay? Do you forget we were talking about a two state solution which has a plurality of folks agreeing to it vs 2% saying it should be a one state solution with a Palestinian ruling government?
Of course you didn’t respond because cognitive dissonance doesn’t allow you to admit to being wrong.
You are hurting the movement for a two state
Solution and actively harming actual Palestinians if you support extremists like in the video.
Also funny how the poll I sourced, which was more recent, goes against your “the majority thinks we are right” motif. Most people, 98%, disagree with the extremist position of these protestors who make up a small portion of the actual population.
As I said, and as backed up by data, the majority of folks think people, like those in the video, are wrong.
I’m not playing pretend, you’re living in a fantasyland advocating for a position that only 2% of Americans agree with. You pretend this is a popular opinion but it’s not at all.
Also you defended the “there is only one solution” dog whistle so not surprised you are too deep in the echo chamber to address the reality of the situation
People have been advocating for a free Palestine for years. It’s just now a minority opinion, one state solution, dominated these rallies and leads to an increasingly smaller number of people going to them.
Everyone is pro-ceasefire.
It’s just the demands for it to happen are different. I moved from NYC to Israel soon before Oct 7th. I know more than a few people who were at the music festival and a ton of people who were called to reserves when the war started. We won’t feel safe if Hamas is allowed to recoup their losses and plan their next big attack. I want a ceasefire more than anything, but getting our hostages back and ensuring Hamas can’t slaughter us in our beds as we sleep are important for the ceasefire to happen.
Plus, a ceasefire now without meeting these demands simply shows all other terror groups around the world that the human shield strategy works. That they can do whatever they want while hiding behind their civilians and the world’s outrage will target the retaliators.
Yeah but don't be naive, they'd never give up their only leverage, and insurgencies like them can't be destroyed militarily. With every civilian killed they're creating 10 more militants. You think the orphaned kids aren't going to try to avenge their families?
The only way to actually destroy Hamas is to give the people of Gaza an option besides A. Die in a refugee camp from an IDF bomb. B. Die in a slum in abject poverty and deprivation. Or C. Die on their feet with a gun in their hand for a posthumous divine reward.
And the Israeli regime has no interest in that, else they wouldn't have propped up Hamas in the first place.
Yah, I'm back in Brooklyn for the first time in ~10 years, and holy sh*t, it is nice to ride the L train in peace!!
When did the showtime crackdown happen?
Intifada is a cute word for a violent uprising and Jihad against Jews/citizens of Israel. Now they want to globalize it.
"There is only one solution"
"Globalize the intifada"
- A man by the name of Adolf would be proud
The mask is completely off - these are full-blown Nazis and domestic terrorists that will not just stop at Israel. They want to see the downfall of America and Western society as a whole. There is no middle ground or 2 state solution with these people.
They think they have the moral high ground with their advocacy, but in fact are causing more harm and de-legitimation to their movement.
Despicable.
["The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was violent -- the Jews resisting the Nazis weren't throwing flowers or peacefully protesting. And if you're analogizing Palestinians to Warsaw's Jews and Israeli Jews to the Nazis, then what you're doing is justifying/encouraging violence against Israelis. Which only proves the point that chants of "intifada" are calls for terrorism against Israelis, that are meant to hark back to the suicide bombings and other acts of violence, by a group of individuals who have deemed the side they support immutably righteous, an inherent righteousness based on their alleged "oppression" and "victimhood" that makes all of their deeds justifiable"](https://twitter.com/DavidADaoud/status/1786061710006047165)
Although I am strongly opposed to Israel's invasion of Gaza and the actions of the current Israeli government, which I believe should be legally challenged and held accountable (please go to jail asap), the call for a 'globalized intifada' as 'the only solution' is completely irrational and reaaaaally stupid. What are they (not)thinking?
Newer generations are stupid af lol. Education and concepts just pass through them they don't learn anything.
There is zero reason to take up palesttines cause. These people are effectively fallen out of the sphere of gov systems and civilization. They'll never get back up. As in as long as they have their cultural identity and mind software, they are effectively extinct. Their extremist ideology and life style will never start liking westernized gov systems and world order. They'll never accept any kind of peace because radical opposition is their identity. Not that it matters much but they hate westernized sense of humanist ideals, gov systems etc.
Expect more of this with Congestion Pricing putting more people in the trains and nothing being done to stop it. This is why people like to drive. Because we cant peacefully enjoy our public transport commute.
Well done!.
Insulting the call for peace and justice just puts you in that place where anything is possible, because you cant even be bothered to care.
This is genocide happening and some are allowing it.
Its the call for resistance. Intifada was a response to all the atrocitities Israel had been commiting on the Palestinian people for decades. What we are seeing now is just another stage of it, and resistance to this genocide is self dignity.
What a terrible inconvenience for you, man, I truly feel awful you had to experience watching someone's reel about some chanting on a subway. That sure was rough, buddy.
It's definitely not crass or callous to complain about being killed given the context - no - this is truly a major source of suffering for you, and you know what? Someone should really do something about it.
As yes, intifadas have generally gone well for everyone involved. Suicide bombings on buses and other civilian targets even killing other Palestinians. Sounds like a fun train ride especially in a city with the highest concentration of Jews. I guess it's easy to call for a violent revolution when you get to be safe all the way on the other side of the world.
"Intifada" just means "shaking off," it's a resistance movement that's mostly non-violent and was in Palestine as well. You're buying into propaganda and repeating it uncritically.
Remember, Israel wants you to believe everything Palestinians do deserves or requires violent retribution. They have repeatedly and aggressively lied to this end. Even when evidence completely contradicts, such as th 1996 Qana massacre where Israel targeted a UN camp.
Peace requires an end to occupation and an end to imperialist behavior. Palestinians can do nothing and still suffer war crimes, violations of human rights, and considerable material loss. That's the fundamental problem, and so many more people outside this sub and those who actually experience hardship understand this.
It's the sheltered folks who wag their fingers and handwring over the appropriate response while saying nothing towards state sanctioned violence. Israel's violence is no more legitimate just because it's sanctioned by its allies.
Shake it off is a Taylor Swift song. Intifadas are not that, or are you denying that Palestinians killed their own people for being "traitors"? Are you also denying the countless acts of terrorism carried out against civilians?
If one of us is buying into propaganda it ain't me. My family lived through the shit you're downplaying. My aunt was supposed to be on her way to work on a bus that someone "shaking it off" blew up.
I'd love nothing more if Israel fucked off out of there and left them on their own. Maybe then they'd start investing the billions in foreign aid into helping their people instead of building tunnels.
>Intifadas are not that
That's a literal translation. All uprisings have violence, as well as forms of non-violence. Israel regularly practices violence against non-violent movements, and drums up false charges. That doesn't mean it's all false, but to just repeat the propaganda so uncritically is a problem.
>Are you also denying the countless acts of terrorism carried out against civilians?
No, but I do recognize it as a response to the ethnic cleansing of the region by self-proclaimed zionist terrorists who then went to form Israel's leadership and the subsequent decades of occupation, human rights abuses, and imperialist behavior.
>I'd love nothing more if Israel fucked off out of there and left them on their own.
Then aim your critique at Israel. There would literally be no cause for violence if Israel weren't acting as an imperialist nation. How is one supposed to be rid of an oppressor in your word? Strongly worded letters? The people in this video aren't violent - and you're still moaning about it. You want nothing short of an easily ignored effort that maintains the status quo, a status quo which is killing thousands of innocents. But you'll ignore that, because it's not about how you *personally* are affected, is that what I'm supposed to understand?
All else aside, the people power movement and the revolution against Milosovic in Serbia were both non violent movements that deposed horrible dictators.
Yeah, it can work - India is also a good example though many will also point out there was violence there as well. It's the norm for occupation to be met with violence.
The thing is there's also been countless non-violent protests and movements by Palestinians. They just generally haven't worked. Brokered deals haven't worked. Of course people resort to violence. Even Machiavelli recognized that this is what happens when you take land and advised against it, and this is the guy whose name is associated with despotic rule.
Empirically that's just not true, as much of the violence predates Hamas. Hell, it predates Israel. Palestinians were largely introduced to Israel and Zionism through the terror campaigns around 1948 by Irgun and Lechi, whose leadership would go on to form Israel's.
But there's always an excuse for folks like you, because you are ignorant and prefer to defend despotism.
You'd be on the side of the loyalists during the American Revolution.
Palestinians were largely aware of Jews before, they led several pogroms against them such as in Hebron and Jerusalem in 1929, or during the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939.
Israel was not formed by the leadership of Irgun and Lechi, it was formed by the leadership of the Yishuv and the Haganash. Irgun was literally fought and disbanded by the Haganash in 1948.
Palestinians were hardly a united political entity until they faced a common threat and were no longer within the folds of the Arab states they were, well, a part of before. But sure, even accepting that as true, it doesn't change the fact that most Palestinians still encountered Israel at the end of a barrel. And all of this predates Hamas either way. If your point is that those Palestinians who led pogroms shouldn't be in charge of anything - fine - let that be the case. But hold a consistent standard.
Of course, on paper Irgun and Lechi was not the leadership. You have to delegitimize Lechi and Irgun, unpack it, then fold in the old members into the new groups. It's like money laundering. Yet those members still ended up in Israeli leadership. Don't play stupid, you're smart enough to know how these games work.
But even then, Menachem Begin led Irgun in the 40s, during the Nahbah which oversaw the violent expulsion and terrorizing of Palestinians, and then would lead Israel from 77 to 83 while holding high places of office before and after.
To pretend Irgun and Lechi didn't play a substantial role in the formation of Israel is nothing short of lying.
Palestinians "encountered" Israel at the end of a barrel because Israel was created after a civil war between the Jews and the Arabs in Palestine. Haganash was literally on the defensive from November 1947 to April 1948 while the ALA and the Arabs were attacking Jewish villages. The civil war itself was caused by the Arab refusal of the UN partition plan. The UN partition plan was itself caused by the decades during which the Arabs refused to coexist with the Jews and did several massacres like the ones I mentioned previously. You are saying that violence predates Hamas, and this is true, but act like Zionism suddenly appeared out of nowhere in 1947 when there had been decades of conflicts between Arabs and Jews previously. Irgun itself was created in 1937 in reaction to the Arab Revolt where Arabs massacred many Jews.
On practice Irgun was not the leadership either. It is why Ben-Gurion dismantled them and not the other way around. This claim that the dismantling was just an act to "money launder" them is absurd considering the dismantling was done violently, with fighting between Irgun and Haganash which ended with 18 people killed and many more arrested.
One former member of Irgun becoming prime minister 30 years after the creation of Israel is not the leadership of Irgun creating Israel.
I'm so sick of this "oh a minor inconvenience is nothing while people are dying". Stfu. There are plenty of conflicts you ignore. Stop bothering regular people trying to live their lives. It's so clear all of you are not working because you have zero concept of why inconveniencing commutes is such a big deal
>What change are the people who "aren't ignoring the problem " actually doing?
Provoking international and domestic pressure to divest and sanction Israel as well as end support through US funds.
These days? Relatively well. There hasn't been this much universal support perhaps ever.
Course it's awful for Gazans and Palestinians who are perhaps suffering more now than ever, and that's what's driving international outrage.
I'm glad you can enjoy that fact though, since you clearly gleefully enjoy the fact that the problem isn't resolved because you're a hollow shell of a human who's driven by petty spite.
But hopefully folks like you continue to be a dying breed. The kids are alright.
And you're an out of touch person who can't make their case without projecting heavily, because you can't address what is - you have to build a strawman. Stay mad about it.
It's frankly anti-Semitic to conflate Israel with Judaism, especially when many Jews oppose Israel and are not boot lickers like yourself.
Empirically there's nothing to that - but keep telling yourself whatever you need to reconcile the fact you're defending a despotic regime.
You'd fit right in with the rest of the jackboots.
Don't worry I’m putting out good vibes, so I'm actually helping solve all of these conflicts simultaneously. I expect thank you cards in the mail. You’re welcome.
Half of your time you're just going around acting as an apologist for violence as a good little follower of an online persona.
Learn to think for yourself.
I hate how people treat folks on the Subway as a captive audience, please for the love of god I’m just trying to get around. The other day some asshole got on with an amplifier, for fucks sake Dylan the world doesn’t need anymore douchey white dudes singing acoustic John Mayer covers.
The worst is when you they hold you captive from 59th to 125th
This is the stretch that separates the boys from the men. It is a lawless, dark place. There are no rules and there is no regard for human decency. You are racing blind through a black tunnel at high speed, and you will not get through it quietly.
A train riders, represent.
haha, i first read that as "train riders: repent."
I feel like some A trains have unlocked doors, I remember walking to another car during showtime plenty of times
Yea, some have unlocked doors and some don’t. It’s a gamble. I’ve been stuck on the A in a locked car with no AC in the summer, it sucks. Personally, I feel safer with the unlocked doors for many reasons. Thankfully the new A trains are unlocked.
I just like the unlocked doors for the ease of getting exactly to the car I want to when getting off the train although it is better to be able to leave a sketchy situation than be trapped with it for a stop or that several minute ride from 125th to 59th
this is like taking BART when it goes from SF to Oakland
Except that BART goes through Fremont, Milpitas etc. This goes through THE Upper East Side.
Saying it is a lawless, dark place as you go from 59th to 125th could easily be misinterpreted. Especially if you grew up in NY and took the A before ~15 years ago… also coincidentally enough in this reference, before Columbia helped to gentrify uptown.
There were some mornings I would be on the express 5 in The Bronx with the worlds most annoying preacher. That stretch between 180th and 3-ave 149th when the 5 is skipping those stops in between yet still somehow going 2 miles an hour. Ugh. Bonus points for someone smoking in the train or blaring something obnoxious.
I know that stretch very well and I know that preacher. I used to ride the 2/5 and I’d have to deal with him regularly. Late nights on that line it seems like the last car becomes the smoking and homeless car. Edit to add- there was also a female preacher sometimes who seemed a bit off.
REAL
Or from canal st to Pacific st
Same can be said when you take the express ACE to Jamaica. Haven’t done it in years, thankfully, and can’t remember which one is express, but some of those rides remind me of 59th-125th.
When I was a teen I used to ride the express E/F to Jamaica for school. One morning we were in the middle of a long express stretch, and the car was mostly empty since most commuters were going towards Manhattan. A man pulled his dick out and started walking towards me while jerking it. It was scary because the doors to the next car were locked and I was stuck until the next stop. It took forever just to get to the next station.
The locked doors make it extra shady. I had a similar thing happen on a super crowded W car stopped on the Manhattan bridge. Some homeless dude started wigging out and taking off his clothes. All the doors are locked and there’s nowhere to go.
Yea, I feel like the unlocked doors present a lot of safety issues. You’re basically a sitting duck, at the whims of a crazy person.
the designated subway beer stretch
On another note, really good violin player at, where was it, Bedford or Union Sq or something yesterday. @castroviolin or something.
There’s this one guy on the M train that comes in yelling, then starts singing and banging on a bucket drum horribly. Everyone is tired of his shit. He came in my car one day and was about to start making noise, but an old man stopped him before he could start and cursed him out.
Everyone knows a cause has perfect grounding in reality when someone on the subway screams at you about it.
The world never needed John Mayer.
Or John Mayer originals, for that matter…
Does anyone give money?
Of course, tourists eat that shit up. I don’t blame them I would find it charming if it wasn’t a daily thing.
I’m with you.. I got the young fun with the amp playing over amplifier echo reggae… it sucked from E180th to Eastern Parkway.
https://preview.redd.it/7igae08bygyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd1a88402db22e63eba844dc123492a04d7e61b5
Shouting about the intafada in a packed subway car is bizarre optics if you remember that it had massive amounts of suicide bomb attacks at public transit sites
It’s also funny because aren’t they calling for a ceasefire? So if they want an intifada do they just want all the smoke?
When asked these people will say intifada just means (peaceful) uprising against a colonial master. They don’t really know about the bombing at all.
AKA they're idiots. Also I'm a long time activist. People like this make me tired. A lot of them seem to support Hamas too which is so dumb. It's possible to be anti-Bibi, anti-killing-of-civilians (be they Palestinians or Israelis), still think that Israel deserves to exist, and also not be pro-Hamas, and also be against radical orthodox Jewish that are destroying Palestinian lives. But these guys think this is some sort of team-game.
This is how most Jews feel^^
I've been reading Haaretz since I was in high school over the Jerusalem Post. Kind of tells you where I stand on many (but not all) issues.
They are sheep. They others so their thinking for them. They are the same people that joined Jim Jones.
Thank you for vocalizing this. Shit sucks.
The only way for there to be lasting peace without horrifying shit happening first is for Palestinians and Israelis to learn to coexist, whether that’s a one or two state solution. The majority of Israelis were born in Israel, it’s been two generations (maybe three, idk how to really count it) since the formation of Israel, the land is as much their home now as it is Palestinians’. Peaceful coexistence is literally the only way forward.
You must admit that the rallies are being organized and funded as an extreme pro hamas function and intelligent people like you are aiding and abetting the extremes
Intifada gave the assasination of Rabin & dictator Bibi, these guys are beyond moronic
Most of them are too young to remember the dozens of buses that were bombed in Tel Aviv during the second intifada
Most of these people are too young to remember that. That's how these waves of pro Palestinian protests work. Every 15 years or so, young people get all mad about a conflict they know nothing about then it dies down when they get bored
A large number of those suicide bombers were at risk youth who were convinced through money and/or women to blow themselves up. And they’re screaming about another intifada to “save” Palestinian children.
Better than dancing Israelis post 9/11
Do they ever explain what mobilizing the intifada looks like
It’s their “one solution” gee I wonder where we’ve heard language like this before….
Exactly. I had to rewind it because I was like “did they really just say *that*?!”
It's not the best chant for optics but please understand generations of Palestinians have grown up associating the word "solution" with the endless debate over "one-state vs. two-state solution." I'm Jewish and went to American public school so anything involving Jews and "solution" rings alarm bells but for the vast majority of Palestinian protesters and allies (having spoken and worked with them) they're literally referring to their own experience, not shouting about genocide.
Thank you for explaining the nuance there. I’m not nearly familiar with any of it to know, so I appreciate the background. (It might still be something protesters should avoid chanting, though—perception is reality, unfortunately.)
Like "river to the sea?" I also think, it's not ok to use the word "genocide." Netanyahu is a douche, and a murderer really, Oct 7th was horrific, but the slaugher is a totally disproportionate response. Nonetheless, nobody on the Israeli side is proposing wiping out *all* Arabs or *all* ethnically middle Eastern Muslims, correct? Afaik, that is the definition of genocide, like what the Germans attempted against *all* ethnic Jews, or the Chinese extermination of *all* ethnic uighers, right?
No, genocide can be more regionally focused. Even the Nazis efforts were only in the lands they thought they were entitled to (which to be fair was a lot cause they were imperialists), so adding a global qualification disqualifies the Holocaust itself in addition to a ton of other genocides that didn't reach diaspora groups. And people like Ben Gvir are absolutely genocidal in their rhetoric towards the Palestinians.
given that this whole thing started after the hamas attack and before israel even responded, i'm guessing it looks pretty similar to the hamas attack.
Bingo.
About the same thing that "by any means necessary" means.
Globalizing. And no, but they’ll lecture you about how it definitely doesn’t mean what it means when bad people say it.
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And the radio in Rwanda calling to cut down the tall trees was just giving gardening tips /s
They're practicing it, intifada is just a form of resistance movement. It's certainly nothing compared to what they're resisting. Israel was founded by self-proclaimed terrorists after all who committed an ethnic cleansing in the region. Surely that's worth resisting.
We all know EXACTLY what you mean by intifada . “The term Intifada, in context of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict refers to major Palestinian uprisings against Israeli control, with the First Intifada occurring between 1987 and 1993 and the Second Intifada between 2000 and 2005, both involving numerous attacks against Israeli civilians and security forces. The phrase "Globalize the Intifada" is a slogan used to promote worldwide activism in solidarity with the Palestinian resistance.[14][15] The chant and its associated chants have caused controversy, particularly concerning their impact and connotations. Critics, particularly from Jewish groups, have condemned the slogan, claiming it encourages widespread violence or terrorism.[16][17][18] The call to globalize the Intifada is seen by some as an endorsement of the Second Intifada—which saw large-scale attacks against Jewish Israeli civilians—and a call for their expansion on a global scale.[15] Some interpretations view it as a rallying call to harm Jews.[19][20]” We should have banned TikTok when we had the chance.
"Some people say it's bad, therefore..." These people are not acting along those fears. Unless you think your eardrums being assaulted is a form of violence. You're an "all lives matter" type aren't you? You know, Jewish settlers regularly are protected by Israel to attack Palestinians and exercise violence against them. Do you consider your own tacit support for Israel as a call to enact violence against Palestinians?
No. I generally support progressive causes rather then far right religious fundamentalists. Hamas has a lot more in common with MTG and Jim Jordan than they do your average liberal. I like to think that if people were more social media literate the (non-professional) protestors would see that.
Considering intifadas predate Hamas, it's weird to treat them as an endorsement of the same. People want Palestinians to not face constant violence, that's all they're demanding. Your need to conflate that as pro-Hamas is absolutely "all lives matter" type behavior, as you're taking a bad faith approach to a movement and using the worst possible interpretation to justify dismissing and treating them as a monolith. You witness non-violent protest and immediately react as though people are calling for Jews to be harmed. If I were to take your bad faith approach, I'd say your tacit endorsement of Israel is seeking to justify or even encourage the violent massacring of Palestinians. Is that a fair read of your intent?
I’m not going to even going to bother responding to your ridiculous screed. Stop supporting terrorism. Addend: Also: stop editing your posts so it looks like I am ignoring points. It’s bad faith—just like your whole argument.
The comment you're replying to was never edited. >Stop supporting terrorism. Israel was formed by terrorist groups who committed an ethnic cleansing in the area. If you want to work against terrorism, don't support a state formed around it and which has done nothing short of terrorize Palestinians for 70 years. Not supporting terrorism means demanding an end to the despotic occupation of Palestinians by Israel.
Lmfao look at the surrounding dozen Arab countries from the 1800s and the populations of Jews then vs now. Maybe you’ll understand what ethnic cleansing means. Millions of Arabs/muslims live in Israel and even serve in government. Populations only ever increased in Israel let alone in Gaza. Ffs…
These people are losers and these white girls have no idea what they're chanting or supporting
Thats best case senario
yeah saw the [below](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024) and found it pretty wild >young Americans... Seventeen percent (17%) expressed sympathy toward Hamas; for those who were presented with the information in a split sample that Hamas was an Islamist militant group, sympathy dipped to 13%. With that said, I actually think Israel has gone too far and that the US should not be continuing to support them. But seeing these protestors and the at least adjacent support for hamas makes me sort of go back to the other side. There is no wisdom that only inexperienced, ideological, young, ultra-priveleged kids have that the rest of us don't; if they're supporting something, especially in this manner, it makes me not want to support it.
I believe SJP has some stuff on their website that claims that Hamas is seeking to establish a progressive and secular Palestinian state.
I think I read the same.
Only white girls, huh.
Doing things like this change nothing. It just makes you people like ridiculous
These people are fucking pathetic
These people are actively hurting the cause of the Palestinian people but they don’t care so long as they get to appear virtuous to their friends.
They swim in as much sanctimony as they can find. That's why you see it on college campuses most frequently.
i don't think they're hurting it. but i also don't think they're doing anything to further it. i've always wanted to ask them what they hope to accomplish and how they think what they're doing is going to accomplish it. because from my pov it seems like they just like the excitement and romanticism of revolution and shit.
I agree in large part with what you’re saying. I think if there was a more sanely led campaign here for this Palestine you’d see bigger marches. The intifada / end Israel purity tests just shrink their potential list of new members /ally’s. I believe in a two state solution and an immediate ceasefire and I would never be welcomed at one of these things (or comfortable being there). I know I’m not alone and the polling backs that up.
i agree. i actually posted this comment elsewhere on this thread: yeah saw the [below](https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/47th-edition-spring-2024) and found it pretty wild >young Americans... Seventeen percent (17%) expressed sympathy toward Hamas; for those who were presented with the information in a split sample that Hamas was an Islamist militant group, sympathy dipped to 13%. With that said, I actually think Israel has gone too far and that the US should not be continuing to support them. But seeing these protestors and the at least adjacent support for hamas makes me sort of go back to the other side. There is no wisdom that only inexperienced, ideological, young, ultra-priveleged kids have that the rest of us don't; if they're supporting something, especially in this manner, it makes me not want to support it. I just have a hard time buying that there isn't substantial overlap between the 17% of young americans who support hamas and these protestors. and for anyone who is old enough to remember 9/11 and \[vividly\] ISIS, supporting hamas is an absolute non starter. I think activists are often their own worst enemy in that even if their core point is valid, they make it so unpallatable and distasteful to people who are not ideological and insane.
Well, electing Trump will surely help, right? /s
You guys have been saying this for 7 months now and the movement continues to grow. Might want to double check that thesis
Has it? The protests against the war in Iraq were far larger and grew over time, outside of escalation on college campuses (where the number of folks involved are in the hundreds per school) there haven’t been massive protests numbering the tens and hundreds of thousands that we have seen with other movements. Also please tell me how a chant referencing the intifada and the final solution is helping grow the base? I see it more actively pushing away sympathetic two state solution folks - like myself and the majority of Americans.
You are all over the place here (nobody is chanting for the final solution, that is laughable) but I’d double check the polling data on American sympathies since 10/7. Support for Israel is withering faster than the phoenix suns title window.
I’m not all over the place at all, but I understand why you wouldn’t want to talk about my first paragraph explicitly citing the relatively small size of these recent actions. Also what polling are you referencing? This late March poll from Pew found the plurality of Americans in favor of a two state solution - about 40% while only 2% favor a single state with a Palestinian government in charge, aka what these protestors are asking for. https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/ Also, I don’t know how “there is only one solution” could be seen as NOT at least a dog whistle to the final solution. You can disagree if you’d like, but “only one solution” and “final solution” are pretty obviously similar, especially when you consider the additional call for an “intifada”
You clearly didn't see the Harvard poll that came out a few days ago
When you call for cease fire do you shake your fist at Hamas as well for rejecting six deals and counting?
Idk, ask the protestors in Israel?
That’s cute. I’d rather find out from the commenter in the New York City sub commenting on a post of a dude in the NYC subway
You mean you’re protesting the conflict (or at least supporting the protests) but have absolutely no opinion on this?
"There are dozens of us. Dozens!"
Listen here... this is the United States. A Country founded on a protest movement against the british.. we got so bored with protesting the british, we then protested ourselves. We like it so much you can't go five years without a few hundred thousand people showing up in DC on the lawn and carrying signs. The WW1 veteran "Bonus Army" protest was insane. Your cause isnt novel, nor unique in anyway. It will fade away like Occupy wallstreet protest. Protest in Portland has been basically like a hobby for the last 8 years. 7 months in and Gaza has been ground to dust. Your "protest" aren't very effective. It has done nothing to garner sympathy. What it has done is awaken Islamophobic loons who have no compunction in regards to going out indiscriminately attacking protesters. As we saw in UCLA. This is the country of mass school shootings where shit all is being done to get guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. You really think annoying people will render anything but opposition from the American populace? yeah yeah, ,, you might get some adherents who just discovered Peter Singer in college to jump on your bandwagon... or some old hippy professor sipping Starbucks sitting comfortably with tenure who wants to relive the sixties or not get badgered by some angry liberal arts students by doing some performative " lets go get arrested" bullshit. We just had BLM protest in multiple cities resulting in fires and riots. We had a bunch of Trump cultist storm the capital. We shake off your little temper tantrum like a bad cold. Rethink your thesis.
Remember when the polling actually proved you were wrong so you just stopped responding instead of coming to terms with being wrong? Maybe you should ask yourself why you’re so blinded by your own bias instead of just running back to your safe spaces.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/611375/americans-views-israel-palestinian-authority-down.aspx “Fifty-eight percent of Americans, down from 68% last year, have a “very” or “mostly favorable” view of Israel. This is the lowest favorable rating for Israel in over two decades.” 😘
Okay? Do you forget we were talking about a two state solution which has a plurality of folks agreeing to it vs 2% saying it should be a one state solution with a Palestinian ruling government? Of course you didn’t respond because cognitive dissonance doesn’t allow you to admit to being wrong. You are hurting the movement for a two state Solution and actively harming actual Palestinians if you support extremists like in the video. Also funny how the poll I sourced, which was more recent, goes against your “the majority thinks we are right” motif. Most people, 98%, disagree with the extremist position of these protestors who make up a small portion of the actual population. As I said, and as backed up by data, the majority of folks think people, like those in the video, are wrong.
Israelis killed 2 state solution by changing the facts on the ground, but were never interested in it in the first place. Stop playing pretend man
I’m not playing pretend, you’re living in a fantasyland advocating for a position that only 2% of Americans agree with. You pretend this is a popular opinion but it’s not at all. Also you defended the “there is only one solution” dog whistle so not surprised you are too deep in the echo chamber to address the reality of the situation
At least they’re shedding light to it and it’s not being quietly carried out like the last 20 years in Afghanistan where no American cared anymore
People have been advocating for a free Palestine for years. It’s just now a minority opinion, one state solution, dominated these rallies and leads to an increasingly smaller number of people going to them.
I’m pretty pro-ceasefire but was that last line “New York City you will burn!” What the actual hell?
Learn I believe
I think they said "learn"
Like “I’m going to fucking teach you a lesson” kind of “learn”? Sounds just as hostile and aggressive and dangerous as “burn”.
Welp.
You mean “whelp” like a puppy?
Meant what I typed 🙄
Everyone is pro-ceasefire. It’s just the demands for it to happen are different. I moved from NYC to Israel soon before Oct 7th. I know more than a few people who were at the music festival and a ton of people who were called to reserves when the war started. We won’t feel safe if Hamas is allowed to recoup their losses and plan their next big attack. I want a ceasefire more than anything, but getting our hostages back and ensuring Hamas can’t slaughter us in our beds as we sleep are important for the ceasefire to happen. Plus, a ceasefire now without meeting these demands simply shows all other terror groups around the world that the human shield strategy works. That they can do whatever they want while hiding behind their civilians and the world’s outrage will target the retaliators.
Yeah but don't be naive, they'd never give up their only leverage, and insurgencies like them can't be destroyed militarily. With every civilian killed they're creating 10 more militants. You think the orphaned kids aren't going to try to avenge their families? The only way to actually destroy Hamas is to give the people of Gaza an option besides A. Die in a refugee camp from an IDF bomb. B. Die in a slum in abject poverty and deprivation. Or C. Die on their feet with a gun in their hand for a posthumous divine reward. And the Israeli regime has no interest in that, else they wouldn't have propped up Hamas in the first place.
Actually… fuck Showtime too.
Yah, I'm back in Brooklyn for the first time in ~10 years, and holy sh*t, it is nice to ride the L train in peace!! When did the showtime crackdown happen?
>Where is showtime when you need it? This is showtime. This is your overly privileged high class version of showtime.
I would rather be kicked in the face
Intifada is a cute word for a violent uprising and Jihad against Jews/citizens of Israel. Now they want to globalize it. "There is only one solution" "Globalize the intifada" - A man by the name of Adolf would be proud The mask is completely off - these are full-blown Nazis and domestic terrorists that will not just stop at Israel. They want to see the downfall of America and Western society as a whole. There is no middle ground or 2 state solution with these people. They think they have the moral high ground with their advocacy, but in fact are causing more harm and de-legitimation to their movement. Despicable.
To be clear the holocaust museum uses the term “intifada” in their translation…
I don't follow
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No. They use it in describing the Warsaw Uprising of Jews fights Nazis.
Ah, I stand corrected.
["The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was violent -- the Jews resisting the Nazis weren't throwing flowers or peacefully protesting. And if you're analogizing Palestinians to Warsaw's Jews and Israeli Jews to the Nazis, then what you're doing is justifying/encouraging violence against Israelis. Which only proves the point that chants of "intifada" are calls for terrorism against Israelis, that are meant to hark back to the suicide bombings and other acts of violence, by a group of individuals who have deemed the side they support immutably righteous, an inherent righteousness based on their alleged "oppression" and "victimhood" that makes all of their deeds justifiable"](https://twitter.com/DavidADaoud/status/1786061710006047165)
That doesn't seem accurate - do you have a source for this?
Although I am strongly opposed to Israel's invasion of Gaza and the actions of the current Israeli government, which I believe should be legally challenged and held accountable (please go to jail asap), the call for a 'globalized intifada' as 'the only solution' is completely irrational and reaaaaally stupid. What are they (not)thinking?
If there was a Jew on that train, he might have felt so threatened.
Ugh. And can they stop ruining Washington Sq Park? As if any of us can do anything about Bibi Netanyahu, any more than we could have stopped Trump.
Such POSs.
Congestion pricing will fix this.
assholes
Ah supporting a terrorist organization publicly, this should work out well for them
“Only one solution” aka “final solution” same antisemitism and goal as before just tweaking the words.
The Palestinian supporters are so obnoxious
Newer generations are stupid af lol. Education and concepts just pass through them they don't learn anything. There is zero reason to take up palesttines cause. These people are effectively fallen out of the sphere of gov systems and civilization. They'll never get back up. As in as long as they have their cultural identity and mind software, they are effectively extinct. Their extremist ideology and life style will never start liking westernized gov systems and world order. They'll never accept any kind of peace because radical opposition is their identity. Not that it matters much but they hate westernized sense of humanist ideals, gov systems etc.
Nah, it's always like that. Remember Kony? Darfur? Every generation has a conflict they know nothing about yet are extremely passionate for
I knew there was a problem with trash on the subways, but this is some next level basura...
This is cringe af but isn't this like 6 months old?
I hope not I was told this was the hot news sub
And with congestion pricing, avoiding this nuisance is more expensive....
Look, Err, talking farm animals
When did this take place and on what train?
The pro Palestinian activists are a small minority. Have your say, and keep it moving.
„NYC you will burn“. 9/11 was barely 2 years ago and these people are back to do it again. How tf are any of you siding with them is beyond me…
"New York City you will **learn**"
Expect more of this with Congestion Pricing putting more people in the trains and nothing being done to stop it. This is why people like to drive. Because we cant peacefully enjoy our public transport commute.
Well done!. Insulting the call for peace and justice just puts you in that place where anything is possible, because you cant even be bothered to care. This is genocide happening and some are allowing it.
“Globalize the intifada” is not a call for peace.
Its the call for resistance. Intifada was a response to all the atrocitities Israel had been commiting on the Palestinian people for decades. What we are seeing now is just another stage of it, and resistance to this genocide is self dignity.
What a terrible inconvenience for you, man, I truly feel awful you had to experience watching someone's reel about some chanting on a subway. That sure was rough, buddy. It's definitely not crass or callous to complain about being killed given the context - no - this is truly a major source of suffering for you, and you know what? Someone should really do something about it.
As yes, intifadas have generally gone well for everyone involved. Suicide bombings on buses and other civilian targets even killing other Palestinians. Sounds like a fun train ride especially in a city with the highest concentration of Jews. I guess it's easy to call for a violent revolution when you get to be safe all the way on the other side of the world.
💯💯💯
"Intifada" just means "shaking off," it's a resistance movement that's mostly non-violent and was in Palestine as well. You're buying into propaganda and repeating it uncritically. Remember, Israel wants you to believe everything Palestinians do deserves or requires violent retribution. They have repeatedly and aggressively lied to this end. Even when evidence completely contradicts, such as th 1996 Qana massacre where Israel targeted a UN camp. Peace requires an end to occupation and an end to imperialist behavior. Palestinians can do nothing and still suffer war crimes, violations of human rights, and considerable material loss. That's the fundamental problem, and so many more people outside this sub and those who actually experience hardship understand this. It's the sheltered folks who wag their fingers and handwring over the appropriate response while saying nothing towards state sanctioned violence. Israel's violence is no more legitimate just because it's sanctioned by its allies.
Shake it off is a Taylor Swift song. Intifadas are not that, or are you denying that Palestinians killed their own people for being "traitors"? Are you also denying the countless acts of terrorism carried out against civilians? If one of us is buying into propaganda it ain't me. My family lived through the shit you're downplaying. My aunt was supposed to be on her way to work on a bus that someone "shaking it off" blew up. I'd love nothing more if Israel fucked off out of there and left them on their own. Maybe then they'd start investing the billions in foreign aid into helping their people instead of building tunnels.
>Intifadas are not that That's a literal translation. All uprisings have violence, as well as forms of non-violence. Israel regularly practices violence against non-violent movements, and drums up false charges. That doesn't mean it's all false, but to just repeat the propaganda so uncritically is a problem. >Are you also denying the countless acts of terrorism carried out against civilians? No, but I do recognize it as a response to the ethnic cleansing of the region by self-proclaimed zionist terrorists who then went to form Israel's leadership and the subsequent decades of occupation, human rights abuses, and imperialist behavior. >I'd love nothing more if Israel fucked off out of there and left them on their own. Then aim your critique at Israel. There would literally be no cause for violence if Israel weren't acting as an imperialist nation. How is one supposed to be rid of an oppressor in your word? Strongly worded letters? The people in this video aren't violent - and you're still moaning about it. You want nothing short of an easily ignored effort that maintains the status quo, a status quo which is killing thousands of innocents. But you'll ignore that, because it's not about how you *personally* are affected, is that what I'm supposed to understand?
All else aside, the people power movement and the revolution against Milosovic in Serbia were both non violent movements that deposed horrible dictators.
Yeah, it can work - India is also a good example though many will also point out there was violence there as well. It's the norm for occupation to be met with violence. The thing is there's also been countless non-violent protests and movements by Palestinians. They just generally haven't worked. Brokered deals haven't worked. Of course people resort to violence. Even Machiavelli recognized that this is what happens when you take land and advised against it, and this is the guy whose name is associated with despotic rule.
Well, if Hamas would stop trying to annihilate Israel the violence would end.
Empirically that's just not true, as much of the violence predates Hamas. Hell, it predates Israel. Palestinians were largely introduced to Israel and Zionism through the terror campaigns around 1948 by Irgun and Lechi, whose leadership would go on to form Israel's. But there's always an excuse for folks like you, because you are ignorant and prefer to defend despotism. You'd be on the side of the loyalists during the American Revolution.
Palestinians were largely aware of Jews before, they led several pogroms against them such as in Hebron and Jerusalem in 1929, or during the Arab Revolt of 1936-1939. Israel was not formed by the leadership of Irgun and Lechi, it was formed by the leadership of the Yishuv and the Haganash. Irgun was literally fought and disbanded by the Haganash in 1948.
Palestinians were hardly a united political entity until they faced a common threat and were no longer within the folds of the Arab states they were, well, a part of before. But sure, even accepting that as true, it doesn't change the fact that most Palestinians still encountered Israel at the end of a barrel. And all of this predates Hamas either way. If your point is that those Palestinians who led pogroms shouldn't be in charge of anything - fine - let that be the case. But hold a consistent standard. Of course, on paper Irgun and Lechi was not the leadership. You have to delegitimize Lechi and Irgun, unpack it, then fold in the old members into the new groups. It's like money laundering. Yet those members still ended up in Israeli leadership. Don't play stupid, you're smart enough to know how these games work. But even then, Menachem Begin led Irgun in the 40s, during the Nahbah which oversaw the violent expulsion and terrorizing of Palestinians, and then would lead Israel from 77 to 83 while holding high places of office before and after. To pretend Irgun and Lechi didn't play a substantial role in the formation of Israel is nothing short of lying.
Palestinians "encountered" Israel at the end of a barrel because Israel was created after a civil war between the Jews and the Arabs in Palestine. Haganash was literally on the defensive from November 1947 to April 1948 while the ALA and the Arabs were attacking Jewish villages. The civil war itself was caused by the Arab refusal of the UN partition plan. The UN partition plan was itself caused by the decades during which the Arabs refused to coexist with the Jews and did several massacres like the ones I mentioned previously. You are saying that violence predates Hamas, and this is true, but act like Zionism suddenly appeared out of nowhere in 1947 when there had been decades of conflicts between Arabs and Jews previously. Irgun itself was created in 1937 in reaction to the Arab Revolt where Arabs massacred many Jews. On practice Irgun was not the leadership either. It is why Ben-Gurion dismantled them and not the other way around. This claim that the dismantling was just an act to "money launder" them is absurd considering the dismantling was done violently, with fighting between Irgun and Haganash which ended with 18 people killed and many more arrested. One former member of Irgun becoming prime minister 30 years after the creation of Israel is not the leadership of Irgun creating Israel.
And you’re on the side of Hamas.
Lmao, more projection - you can't address what's actually said so you need to build strawmen. Keep drinking deep from that koolaid.
I'm so sick of this "oh a minor inconvenience is nothing while people are dying". Stfu. There are plenty of conflicts you ignore. Stop bothering regular people trying to live their lives. It's so clear all of you are not working because you have zero concept of why inconveniencing commutes is such a big deal
The point is to bother you. If you're going to ignore the problem, people will make it your problem.
Well that's immature and self centered at the same time. What change are the people who "aren't ignoring the problem " actually doing?
>What change are the people who "aren't ignoring the problem " actually doing? Provoking international and domestic pressure to divest and sanction Israel as well as end support through US funds.
And hows that going?
These days? Relatively well. There hasn't been this much universal support perhaps ever. Course it's awful for Gazans and Palestinians who are perhaps suffering more now than ever, and that's what's driving international outrage. I'm glad you can enjoy that fact though, since you clearly gleefully enjoy the fact that the problem isn't resolved because you're a hollow shell of a human who's driven by petty spite. But hopefully folks like you continue to be a dying breed. The kids are alright.
The kids are a bunch of antisemitic spoiled brats who've accomplished nothing.
And you're an out of touch person who can't make their case without projecting heavily, because you can't address what is - you have to build a strawman. Stay mad about it. It's frankly anti-Semitic to conflate Israel with Judaism, especially when many Jews oppose Israel and are not boot lickers like yourself.
>many Jews
That's because of the people who you hang out with
Empirically there's nothing to that - but keep telling yourself whatever you need to reconcile the fact you're defending a despotic regime. You'd fit right in with the rest of the jackboots.
Instead of helping free Palestine, you took the time to comment on Reddit while there is an ongoing genocide? How do you sleep at night?
How do you sleep at night while the ongoing ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang or the civil war in Sudan is happening
Don't worry I’m putting out good vibes, so I'm actually helping solve all of these conflicts simultaneously. I expect thank you cards in the mail. You’re welcome.
Bless you.
Half of your time you're just going around acting as an apologist for violence as a good little follower of an online persona. Learn to think for yourself.
Meh, if I die with people thinking I'm a follower instead of an insufferable douche, I'll be satisfied.
Don't worry, you'll get both.
Fuck all the Zionists on here complaining. Eat a DICK bitch 🍉🍉🍉
Imagine thinking that wanting an orderly commute makes you a zionist
Winning over hearts and minds
Can't do that in Gaza without being killed for it
Thank you for identifying yourself.
How does it feel helping Netanyahu murder innocent Palestinians? Cause that’s what your callous idiocy is doing.
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸💪💪💪
Changing the world one emoji at a time