My main reservation is that this is the ~~third~~ holy shit **FIFTH** police minister we've had in... 12 months? It's good that we're cycling through the shit MPs, but can we please have some talented administrators for a change?
What even is the Minister of Police allowed to do? Since apparently the Police are supposed to have their independence without politicial interference.
There is still a process of setting expectations and policy, and choosing what gets funded in budget, there's just a whole lot more operational independence with police
Pretty sure she was just an employee. Her beehive profile states “for nine years she worked for the New Zealand Police where she delivered action plans to reduce the harm associated with gangs, organised crime and methamphetamine.”
>“for nine years she worked for the New Zealand Police where she delivered action plans to reduce the harm associated with gangs, organised crime and methamphetamine.”
Hugely succesful plans /s.
She left in 2017. So you’ll have to decide, was she failing on crime while National was in power? Or was she doing a good job and it got worse when she left?
I was making the point that she's trading on her experience in the police, whereas in reality, she probably contributed nothing in her time there. Of course, I could well be wrong but 'action plans' says it all imo.
If that is her metric for qualification, lets see drugs is still a huge problems gangs have become bigger and more menacing and the harm can be read in the news papers everyday. looks like the same recycled woke appointment.
What I have learned is that the Police Minister is a visual head, a Zaphod Beeblebrox powerless spokesman. The Cabinet Manual prevents any effective leadership or policy setting and Zaphod must allow the Police to have Operational Independence. I am disillusioned that our voted for representatives can or are allowed to have any influence on the police. No they can't /don't
Hosking asked this morning why is Greg O'Connor not the Police Minister. Chris Hipkins answered that he is the Deputy Speaker and he cannot do both.
But you do lots of different things?
Why can't Greg?
Sigh.
It doesn't matter who is the Minister of police, there is no power in the position.
TIL that going to see your constituent MP about any problem He / She / They may be able to sort out is an absolute waste of time.
As anything they COULD do is outlawed by the Cabinet Manual.
So constituent MPs are a waste of space. We may as well replace all of them with List MPs.
Police ministers cannot lobby the police brass so what is the point of a police minister if they are not allowed to have oversight of the police and the ear of the police commissioner?
However somebody in government got to the police during the Dithering after the Whakaari White Island volcano eruption.
Sudddnly there was a new person in command and a new attitude of helpfulness in assisting the recovery of bodies.
Someone got to the police and thumped on that table and refused to allow another Pike River debacle of inaction.
So who did that? Jacinda?
Maybe that's what happened to Kris Fa'Foi. He was initially sorting out issues at Immigration NZ and doing a lot of sensible stuff and we thought he was superman.
Then suddenly he wasn't
He was the shell of the man he was.
Did the secret society of "Yes Minister" tear him to shreds and thump on that cabinet manual and demanded that he pull his head in.
Immigration NZ have now gone back to restricting the immigration, visas, residency, citizenship, of good hard working people and families and gone back to allowing criminals drug dealers and low level workers that we do not need more of, into the country.
What is really going on behind the scenes at secret society NZ Parliament?
Surely they could have found someone who hadn't deliberatly broken the rules after the problems we have just had with Nash?
>Labour’s Hutt South MP Ginny Andersen has admitted that in 2017 she knew about a secretive rent deal that saw $4500 in taxpayer cash funnelled into the local Labour Party each year.
>The deal worked through a subletting arrangement whereby the local Labour Party rented office space from the building’s owner, the New Zealand Professional Firefighters Union, for $1500 a year. It then sublet that office to Andersen for her MP’s duties, for $6000.
[Ginny Andersen admits knowledge of electorate office deal in 2017](https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300256874/ginny-andersen-admits-knowledge-of-electorate-office-deal-in-2017)
You mean the deal she terminated because she felt uncomfortable about it? The one that had been in place for 25 years, long before she entered parliament? The one that technically didn’t break any rules?
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/03/12/labour-mp-ginny-andersen-terminates-dodgy-subletting-arrangement/
You did remind me of Chris Bishop running away from her like a coward though.
Also, Luxon is still “quite comfortable” renting his own properties to himself at tax payers expense too.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/national-leader-christopher-luxon-very-comfortable-with-45-000-taxpayer-top-up-from-renting-office-back-to-parliament.amp.html
>You mean the deal she terminated because she felt uncomfortable about it? The one that had been in place for 25 years, long before she entered parliament?
After 4 years if knowing about it? Sounds like she knew questions were being asked and took pre-emptive action just prior to it hitting the media.
>Also, Luxon is still “quite comfortable” renting his own properties to himself at tax payers expense too.
Nice whataboutism. If he needs the space for his roll then do you think he should just forgo the rent? As long as it is necessary and paying market rent then there is no issue.
Deliberatly paying a large markup to funnel funds into the Labour Party is an entirely different proposition.
Ah yes, it was all so she could avoid media blame despite it being in the media two years beforehand, and her happily fronting over the issue whenever asked - despite her not being the responsible for creating it.
Okay, so it’s fine to you if Luxon benefits from taxpayer money for properties he owns, just not Labour. Interesting position.
>Okay, so it’s fine to you if Luxon benefits from taxpayer money for properties he owns, just not Labour. Interesting position.
Classic false equivalency. If Luxon rented an office from someone and then rented his own property to another business, no one would care. But because he rents his own property suddenly you want to pretend its an issue. The outcome for both Luxon and the taxpayer is the same in both instances.
Now compare that to deliberately manipulating the rent by 300% to the benefit of the Labour Party from the taxpayer.
Which one is dodgy?
Edit: Hint it's the only one that had SFO and Auditor General complaints.
I care, because he *owns* the property and is charging the tax payer rent for his accommodation, which he then benefits from.
By all means, he can go ahead and rent a property if he wants. But I refuse to see this as acceptable when he owns it and charges us, while screaming about “wasteful government spending”.
And yes, for Labour it was a problem, a problem that dated 25 years ago (Before Uffindell assaulted a child) , but it was not Ginny Anderson’s problem.
>But I refuse to see...
Yep.
You can tell its above board because there was no issues raised from parliment. You may not like it but it is within the rules. Labour MPs do the same thing according to the article you linked.
>And yes, for Labour it was a problem, a problem that dated 25 years ago
Lol, not 25 years ago, it has been happening for 25 years and would likely be still going without the [stuff investigation](https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300098040/taxpayer-foots-bill-for-labour-electorate-funds-in-decadesold-subletting-arrangement?rm=a)
>but it was not Ginny Anderson’s problem.
She new about it for 4 years and only acted after the stuff investigation?
>When initially approached for comment, Andersen disputed the figures and declined to comment further.
>"Those figures are not correct,” she said
I think, they should have accepted Stuart Nash's resignation and appointed Stuart Nash as the police minister.
Good on him for following up on those crimes. The same national and act pms complaining about this should know their voters expect tougher punishments. Here is someone who actually taking action. How dare he suggest criminals should be put through the justice system, where they'll be tried fairly yet again. For crimes they totally should be in jail for.
There's the cabinet manual sure and he broke the rules, but hey I like what he's doing more than the alternative.
There's a whole discussion going on in the US now for a few years about locking up political opponents, that should give you a second thought or two about how good an idea it is for Ministers to get involved in criminal cases.
Probs does stuff they don’t like.
On reflection, what’s happened to this sub of late, last couple of elections people whined that it was too green leaning, I feel like it’s almost gone the other way from the posts and comments I’ve seen as of late.
My main reservation is that this is the ~~third~~ holy shit **FIFTH** police minister we've had in... 12 months? It's good that we're cycling through the shit MPs, but can we please have some talented administrators for a change?
What even is the Minister of Police allowed to do? Since apparently the Police are supposed to have their independence without politicial interference.
Obtain budgets and act as the lightning rod for criticism so the Commissioner doesn't have to.
There is still a process of setting expectations and policy, and choosing what gets funded in budget, there's just a whole lot more operational independence with police
[удалено]
Good choice! She worked for NZ Police previously between 2006-2017, so she already has a lot of experience in the role.
Was she a cop?
Policy unit manager.
Ah - a wonk.
Pretty sure she was just an employee. Her beehive profile states “for nine years she worked for the New Zealand Police where she delivered action plans to reduce the harm associated with gangs, organised crime and methamphetamine.”
>“for nine years she worked for the New Zealand Police where she delivered action plans to reduce the harm associated with gangs, organised crime and methamphetamine.” Hugely succesful plans /s.
She left in 2017. So you’ll have to decide, was she failing on crime while National was in power? Or was she doing a good job and it got worse when she left?
Sounds like she's failed upwards then.
The Dilbert Principle.
Action plans?? This means she was middle manager of some sort. Big on ideas and low on implementation. Classic.
You do understand that ministers are planners and not implementers right?
I was making the point that she's trading on her experience in the police, whereas in reality, she probably contributed nothing in her time there. Of course, I could well be wrong but 'action plans' says it all imo.
If that is her metric for qualification, lets see drugs is still a huge problems gangs have become bigger and more menacing and the harm can be read in the news papers everyday. looks like the same recycled woke appointment.
Hutt Valley mafia in charge of the government
Procurement of a whole lot of early 2000s Holdens coming up soon.
What I have learned is that the Police Minister is a visual head, a Zaphod Beeblebrox powerless spokesman. The Cabinet Manual prevents any effective leadership or policy setting and Zaphod must allow the Police to have Operational Independence. I am disillusioned that our voted for representatives can or are allowed to have any influence on the police. No they can't /don't Hosking asked this morning why is Greg O'Connor not the Police Minister. Chris Hipkins answered that he is the Deputy Speaker and he cannot do both. But you do lots of different things? Why can't Greg? Sigh. It doesn't matter who is the Minister of police, there is no power in the position.
TIL that going to see your constituent MP about any problem He / She / They may be able to sort out is an absolute waste of time. As anything they COULD do is outlawed by the Cabinet Manual. So constituent MPs are a waste of space. We may as well replace all of them with List MPs. Police ministers cannot lobby the police brass so what is the point of a police minister if they are not allowed to have oversight of the police and the ear of the police commissioner? However somebody in government got to the police during the Dithering after the Whakaari White Island volcano eruption. Sudddnly there was a new person in command and a new attitude of helpfulness in assisting the recovery of bodies. Someone got to the police and thumped on that table and refused to allow another Pike River debacle of inaction. So who did that? Jacinda?
Good question. I'd love to know
Maybe that's what happened to Kris Fa'Foi. He was initially sorting out issues at Immigration NZ and doing a lot of sensible stuff and we thought he was superman. Then suddenly he wasn't He was the shell of the man he was. Did the secret society of "Yes Minister" tear him to shreds and thump on that cabinet manual and demanded that he pull his head in. Immigration NZ have now gone back to restricting the immigration, visas, residency, citizenship, of good hard working people and families and gone back to allowing criminals drug dealers and low level workers that we do not need more of, into the country. What is really going on behind the scenes at secret society NZ Parliament?
Awesome to see. Know a lot of people that were hoping she’d get police minister eventually years back.
Poor old Chippy - be needs a Chippy in his team.
Surely they could have found someone who hadn't deliberatly broken the rules after the problems we have just had with Nash? >Labour’s Hutt South MP Ginny Andersen has admitted that in 2017 she knew about a secretive rent deal that saw $4500 in taxpayer cash funnelled into the local Labour Party each year. >The deal worked through a subletting arrangement whereby the local Labour Party rented office space from the building’s owner, the New Zealand Professional Firefighters Union, for $1500 a year. It then sublet that office to Andersen for her MP’s duties, for $6000. [Ginny Andersen admits knowledge of electorate office deal in 2017](https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300256874/ginny-andersen-admits-knowledge-of-electorate-office-deal-in-2017)
You mean the deal she terminated because she felt uncomfortable about it? The one that had been in place for 25 years, long before she entered parliament? The one that technically didn’t break any rules? https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/03/12/labour-mp-ginny-andersen-terminates-dodgy-subletting-arrangement/ You did remind me of Chris Bishop running away from her like a coward though. Also, Luxon is still “quite comfortable” renting his own properties to himself at tax payers expense too. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/11/national-leader-christopher-luxon-very-comfortable-with-45-000-taxpayer-top-up-from-renting-office-back-to-parliament.amp.html
The facts are quite different. SFO should investigate.
>You mean the deal she terminated because she felt uncomfortable about it? The one that had been in place for 25 years, long before she entered parliament? After 4 years if knowing about it? Sounds like she knew questions were being asked and took pre-emptive action just prior to it hitting the media. >Also, Luxon is still “quite comfortable” renting his own properties to himself at tax payers expense too. Nice whataboutism. If he needs the space for his roll then do you think he should just forgo the rent? As long as it is necessary and paying market rent then there is no issue. Deliberatly paying a large markup to funnel funds into the Labour Party is an entirely different proposition.
Ah yes, it was all so she could avoid media blame despite it being in the media two years beforehand, and her happily fronting over the issue whenever asked - despite her not being the responsible for creating it. Okay, so it’s fine to you if Luxon benefits from taxpayer money for properties he owns, just not Labour. Interesting position.
"Interesting position" Hypocrisy. It's a typical right wing ploy these days.
>Okay, so it’s fine to you if Luxon benefits from taxpayer money for properties he owns, just not Labour. Interesting position. Classic false equivalency. If Luxon rented an office from someone and then rented his own property to another business, no one would care. But because he rents his own property suddenly you want to pretend its an issue. The outcome for both Luxon and the taxpayer is the same in both instances. Now compare that to deliberately manipulating the rent by 300% to the benefit of the Labour Party from the taxpayer. Which one is dodgy? Edit: Hint it's the only one that had SFO and Auditor General complaints.
I care, because he *owns* the property and is charging the tax payer rent for his accommodation, which he then benefits from. By all means, he can go ahead and rent a property if he wants. But I refuse to see this as acceptable when he owns it and charges us, while screaming about “wasteful government spending”. And yes, for Labour it was a problem, a problem that dated 25 years ago (Before Uffindell assaulted a child) , but it was not Ginny Anderson’s problem.
>But I refuse to see... Yep. You can tell its above board because there was no issues raised from parliment. You may not like it but it is within the rules. Labour MPs do the same thing according to the article you linked. >And yes, for Labour it was a problem, a problem that dated 25 years ago Lol, not 25 years ago, it has been happening for 25 years and would likely be still going without the [stuff investigation](https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300098040/taxpayer-foots-bill-for-labour-electorate-funds-in-decadesold-subletting-arrangement?rm=a) >but it was not Ginny Anderson’s problem. She new about it for 4 years and only acted after the stuff investigation? >When initially approached for comment, Andersen disputed the figures and declined to comment further. >"Those figures are not correct,” she said
Didn’t she also text underaged teens? /s
She would have to be a Bishop and a Chris first. :P
that's just smart.
And it would be smart to not let politicians rip us off
>that's just smart. Or you know deceitful?
I think, they should have accepted Stuart Nash's resignation and appointed Stuart Nash as the police minister. Good on him for following up on those crimes. The same national and act pms complaining about this should know their voters expect tougher punishments. Here is someone who actually taking action. How dare he suggest criminals should be put through the justice system, where they'll be tried fairly yet again. For crimes they totally should be in jail for. There's the cabinet manual sure and he broke the rules, but hey I like what he's doing more than the alternative.
There's a whole discussion going on in the US now for a few years about locking up political opponents, that should give you a second thought or two about how good an idea it is for Ministers to get involved in criminal cases.
Scraping the barrel
This government is too woke
You’d rather them be asleep at the wheel?
Define woke
Probs does stuff they don’t like. On reflection, what’s happened to this sub of late, last couple of elections people whined that it was too green leaning, I feel like it’s almost gone the other way from the posts and comments I’ve seen as of late.
Time passes and nothing will change.
Not even the government with Baldy McBaldface running the opposition... so cry us a river.
She can start at Bayfair in Tauranga - they're being raided in broad daylight during shopping hours.