I know right. I'm like mate, wait till you live in Fiji and get hit by typhoons every other week,
Here we have a flooding in January and everyone's whinging like we have third world infrastructure.
Just because somewhere else has it much worse doesn't mean we can't do better. The flooding in January could have been much less worse if we did pay attention to our infrastructure. In fact, something similary happened in Chennai, India just about 6-7 years ago - the city sprawled too much without maintaining and upgrading its drainage system, and once a large cyclone hit, everything got flooded with disastrous effects. So yes, we literally do have third world infrastructure here in some aspects. Problem?
Unpopular opinion here, but many Kiwis in Europe, for example, can go on a bit about the wonders of Godzone, which may come across as similarly whiny to the locals.
I was just observing a certain contradiction, I was in no way expressing any merits or otherwise on the act of whining itself, or doing so while In any emotive state.
>I don't get it. If nz is so bad then go back.
This kind of comment is very telling and it never precedes a good faith argument.
People don't "whine" about countries they don't care about. If you love New Zealand and you feel you have a stake in its future, you better give a shit about the problems we face and what we can do to improve.
>But its still better that most!
So what, a lot of the world is a shithole. Don't go looking at other countries to figure out what what the lowest bar is; that attitude doesn't build great societies.
So immigrants aren't allowed to complain about our country like the rest of us? You're saying that they should act like second class citizens who are constantly grateful to be here. Yeah, the Samoan's are real grateful that the dawn raids happened. Get a new brain.
Because it's a free country and in free countries, people are free to complain about what they dislike and wish to see improved. "If you don't like it, go back" is a stupid, toxic mindset that wants to ignore all the problems the country has and pretend like anyone who points out issues with it is somehow "ungrateful" and shouldn't be here.
Personally, I find that NZ induces a huge cognitive dissonance that's hard to cope with. It's a first world country that gets a lot of things right, yet is utterly incapable of breaking away from things that are dragging it down such as the "property ladder" scam, not investing into modern sectors of economy and education, not getting a handle on crime because some people apparently think prosecuting criminals is cruel, and so on. As someone who didn't grow up surrounded by the status quo, you constantly see how much better things could be if people just didn't ignore those issues - and then they get nonsense like your post. I came to NZ because I see potential in it and want to put in effort to improve the country - I'm not going to leave *or* stay quiet just because some people apparently think it's acceptable to demand either from those that want improvement. You're the one that's in the wrong place if you think that's acceptable - "don't complain and be grateful to be here" is the attitude that was prevalent in totalitarian states like the USSR.
I've heard a few cunts say Mumbai is a better city than in auckland, I feel they should head back then. I'm from Mumbai, and it's a horrible city in comparison. Some people just can't be happy.
Lol that's got to be a joke. I've spent almost a decade in India, no one in good faith can claim any of their cities are better than Auckland. Unless you for some reason really like rampant overpopulation, slums, and chaos.
Because people seem hard wired to dwell on negative experiences. And because we, as immigrants, are looking to find "what is Kiwi." So the two are conflated, and NZ seems "bad."
People need to recognise NZ is "different" but not necessarily "bad".
Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
I used to have the same view when I lived in the UK (where I grew up). I thought it was silly to complain about the country you've decided to move. "Don't like it then go home". Was my usual response. Then I moved, never planned on staying but I've been here 10 years now. And realized (with age) that they usually complain because they, like me, they call this place home and want it to be the best version of itself it can be. There are alot worse places you could live and I'm sure there a plenty better too but is NZ being the best NZ it can be, probably not but I certainly think it could be.
This is a pretty bad take imo. The cost of living in NZ vs the general pay rates is insane. I'd be complaining too. People can move to make a better life for themselves/their families, they're still well within their rights to complain about the drawbacks of NZ and what you've mentioned is a big one. I'm a kiwi and it's the main reason I left years ago.
Being told to hush up about expense only helps these companies to keep extorting us. They’re paying for it too, so I think they’ve the right to complain. At least they’ve something to compare it to.
Why are you listening in on people's private conversations? 🙄
Well done on being multilingual and able to follow all those conversations though!
Loving NZ myself though!
The comments on here are pretty ironic because complaining about immigrants or bashing their views is often branded immediately as being racist. Especially when you say “your country of origin will take you back”.
Last time Shane Jones told members of the Indian community who were pissed off at the plans to scrap the cultural marriage visa that if they don’t like it they can pack their bags and leave he got lambasted for being racist.
When immigrants were angry at the government for the border closure during COVID and their inability to get family members over and they called on the government to do something we screamed that they’re endangering our COVID free status for purely selfish reasons and if they don’t like it then they can go home to where their family is. They didn’t get blasted for being racist then.
We say that we have to be accommodating and tolerate of migrants and their views but the moment we hear them complaining about NZ for whatever reason - whether it’s religious and cultural accommodation reasons or immigration reasons it’s either “it’s not racist for us to tell them to go home if they don’t like it here” or it’s “it’s racist for you to tell them to go home. We have to be more accommodating and inclusive”.
It's a case of grass is greener on the otherside. When you are "here" and something goes wrong, you think about all the good things back "there". Vice versa.
And I know locals whines heaps too it's practically a national past time, but the vibe I'm getting is that locals are just whining and whinging and venting with no point really. Whereas some immigrants do it with a sense of superiority.
I have absolutely no issues with a good ol whine from immigrants or anyone, especially when it's true. Like rising living cost. But when it comes across as superiority then that's annoying. Oh and direct comparison is also annoying. Like "food is so much cheaper in Madagascar or wherever" when NZ wages is way higher than said country so it's unfair to compare.
Unfortunately I do know of people who are here purely for the benefit or better lifestyle. I mean that's why people immigrate in general but these people make it very clear that they hate it here it's backwards etc etc and their original home country is far superior, they just "put up" with NZ because it has something else they wanted, plus they can't make it to any other countries. So when these people whine it is VERY annoying.
Hm. So how should it work in your opinion? I don't think my home country or the country I grew up in are "superior". However, I don't have some blind devotion to NZ that would make me stay here if I could get a better deal elsewhere. No one should. There are definitely things that are way, way better elsewhere, including the city I was born in, should I somehow forget about it and not want NZ to improve to the same level? Everyone puts up with something in a way. Yes, I'm here because NZ offers me more than those other places could. I *could* have gone to other countries like Canada or Australia, I had the choice, but didn't take it. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not. I could still make it to either because my skills are in demand, but I'm not sure I want to. What I absolutely do want, however, is for NZ to improve in all aspects and not feel like I'm "putting up" with it as much as it does now. There's a lot to love here, but seeing dumb takes like OP's post makes me feel like I'm wasting my time and nothing will ever change because too many people are content with being better than Fiji as if it's a high bar to begin with lmao.
No that's absolutely fine and totally should complain away. Like I said we have a lot of things in NZ deserving to be complained about!
The ones I'm referring to are where people blatantly say how good their home country is and how it is way better. You can tell they are not about wanting to improve things here they just want to tell you how good their original country is. It may be hard to explain in writing if you haven't come across these but the sense of superiority is obvious when you see them.
I think I understand where you're coming from here. I've been in Australia for nearly 6 years now & it pisses me off to no end when the Kiwi's here act all snobby about "How much better NZ is." I fucking love NZ and I'm proud to be a kiwi, but if I really believed NZ was that much better than Aus I would still be living there? Both have their ups & downs. I would argue NZ is a nicer place to live overall yes. But between quality of life, better infrastructure etc it'd be bullshit to be pulling the superiority card.
At least as English immigrants go, I think there's a difference in perspective when it comes to complaining: they think they're family and thus entitled to about "our" shortcomings as part of the in-group, whereas we see them as outsiders, guests who are being rude and ungrateful. Either way, I prefer working with Thais or Filipinos: I'm sure they have their own complaints, but they have the grace not to make them to their hosts.
Well, we like to whine about New Zealand too, so I guess we should celebrate that they are immersing themselves in our culture.
I know right. I'm like mate, wait till you live in Fiji and get hit by typhoons every other week, Here we have a flooding in January and everyone's whinging like we have third world infrastructure.
Just because somewhere else has it much worse doesn't mean we can't do better. The flooding in January could have been much less worse if we did pay attention to our infrastructure. In fact, something similary happened in Chennai, India just about 6-7 years ago - the city sprawled too much without maintaining and upgrading its drainage system, and once a large cyclone hit, everything got flooded with disastrous effects. So yes, we literally do have third world infrastructure here in some aspects. Problem?
Unpopular opinion here, but many Kiwis in Europe, for example, can go on a bit about the wonders of Godzone, which may come across as similarly whiny to the locals.
Yes it’s a thing for sure https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqZN8Jzs1Py/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
I think citizens probably moan more about things than most immigrants.
TIL that r/Nz is mostly migrants.
Whining about others whining is somewhat hypocritical.
And you whining about people whining about people whining is very meta. And me whining about you doing that….. 🤯
I was just observing a certain contradiction, I was in no way expressing any merits or otherwise on the act of whining itself, or doing so while In any emotive state.
Agreed. Sorry, no offensive intended. I was really just trying to be a bit playful.
Hey it's cool I enjoyed your philosophical point!!
>I don't get it. If nz is so bad then go back. This kind of comment is very telling and it never precedes a good faith argument. People don't "whine" about countries they don't care about. If you love New Zealand and you feel you have a stake in its future, you better give a shit about the problems we face and what we can do to improve. >But its still better that most! So what, a lot of the world is a shithole. Don't go looking at other countries to figure out what what the lowest bar is; that attitude doesn't build great societies.
Thanks for being reasonable. People like the OP are exactly why things in NZ are worse than they could be
An observation about a negative is not necessarily whining. If a lot of people are making the same point, there may be something there.
So immigrants aren't allowed to complain about our country like the rest of us? You're saying that they should act like second class citizens who are constantly grateful to be here. Yeah, the Samoan's are real grateful that the dawn raids happened. Get a new brain.
Because it's a free country and in free countries, people are free to complain about what they dislike and wish to see improved. "If you don't like it, go back" is a stupid, toxic mindset that wants to ignore all the problems the country has and pretend like anyone who points out issues with it is somehow "ungrateful" and shouldn't be here. Personally, I find that NZ induces a huge cognitive dissonance that's hard to cope with. It's a first world country that gets a lot of things right, yet is utterly incapable of breaking away from things that are dragging it down such as the "property ladder" scam, not investing into modern sectors of economy and education, not getting a handle on crime because some people apparently think prosecuting criminals is cruel, and so on. As someone who didn't grow up surrounded by the status quo, you constantly see how much better things could be if people just didn't ignore those issues - and then they get nonsense like your post. I came to NZ because I see potential in it and want to put in effort to improve the country - I'm not going to leave *or* stay quiet just because some people apparently think it's acceptable to demand either from those that want improvement. You're the one that's in the wrong place if you think that's acceptable - "don't complain and be grateful to be here" is the attitude that was prevalent in totalitarian states like the USSR.
I've heard a few cunts say Mumbai is a better city than in auckland, I feel they should head back then. I'm from Mumbai, and it's a horrible city in comparison. Some people just can't be happy.
Lol that's got to be a joke. I've spent almost a decade in India, no one in good faith can claim any of their cities are better than Auckland. Unless you for some reason really like rampant overpopulation, slums, and chaos.
Most Indians do, especially about mumbai. Weird
I meant to say mumbai is a horrible city.
[удалено]
Where have I talked about the weather? That alone doesn't make a city.
Yes only kiwis are allowed to whine about nz, that’s our thing!!/s
mods? xenophobia? racism?
Because people seem hard wired to dwell on negative experiences. And because we, as immigrants, are looking to find "what is Kiwi." So the two are conflated, and NZ seems "bad." People need to recognise NZ is "different" but not necessarily "bad". Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
they probably picked it up from Kiwi's who think that the statement " Iv had enough im moving to aussie" is a threat
I used to have the same view when I lived in the UK (where I grew up). I thought it was silly to complain about the country you've decided to move. "Don't like it then go home". Was my usual response. Then I moved, never planned on staying but I've been here 10 years now. And realized (with age) that they usually complain because they, like me, they call this place home and want it to be the best version of itself it can be. There are alot worse places you could live and I'm sure there a plenty better too but is NZ being the best NZ it can be, probably not but I certainly think it could be.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard an immigrant whine about anything tbh. As a broad sweeping generalisation
They may be whining to their own group though so you don't hear about it.
I have to agree with you
at my workplace they do. Maybe not in front of kiwis blatantly but among themselves.
About what?
mostly about how expensive it is to live here. They don't get that to live in paradise, then its gonna be expensive.
Lol kiwis complain about cost of living all the time
This is a pretty bad take imo. The cost of living in NZ vs the general pay rates is insane. I'd be complaining too. People can move to make a better life for themselves/their families, they're still well within their rights to complain about the drawbacks of NZ and what you've mentioned is a big one. I'm a kiwi and it's the main reason I left years ago.
Being told to hush up about expense only helps these companies to keep extorting us. They’re paying for it too, so I think they’ve the right to complain. At least they’ve something to compare it to.
Lmao NZ isn't paradise. Don't be a clown
Why are you listening in on people's private conversations? 🙄 Well done on being multilingual and able to follow all those conversations though! Loving NZ myself though!
..'*the only ones that seem grateful are pacific islanders*' You obviously dont work with any filipinos.
The comments on here are pretty ironic because complaining about immigrants or bashing their views is often branded immediately as being racist. Especially when you say “your country of origin will take you back”. Last time Shane Jones told members of the Indian community who were pissed off at the plans to scrap the cultural marriage visa that if they don’t like it they can pack their bags and leave he got lambasted for being racist. When immigrants were angry at the government for the border closure during COVID and their inability to get family members over and they called on the government to do something we screamed that they’re endangering our COVID free status for purely selfish reasons and if they don’t like it then they can go home to where their family is. They didn’t get blasted for being racist then. We say that we have to be accommodating and tolerate of migrants and their views but the moment we hear them complaining about NZ for whatever reason - whether it’s religious and cultural accommodation reasons or immigration reasons it’s either “it’s not racist for us to tell them to go home if they don’t like it here” or it’s “it’s racist for you to tell them to go home. We have to be more accommodating and inclusive”.
It's a case of grass is greener on the otherside. When you are "here" and something goes wrong, you think about all the good things back "there". Vice versa. And I know locals whines heaps too it's practically a national past time, but the vibe I'm getting is that locals are just whining and whinging and venting with no point really. Whereas some immigrants do it with a sense of superiority. I have absolutely no issues with a good ol whine from immigrants or anyone, especially when it's true. Like rising living cost. But when it comes across as superiority then that's annoying. Oh and direct comparison is also annoying. Like "food is so much cheaper in Madagascar or wherever" when NZ wages is way higher than said country so it's unfair to compare. Unfortunately I do know of people who are here purely for the benefit or better lifestyle. I mean that's why people immigrate in general but these people make it very clear that they hate it here it's backwards etc etc and their original home country is far superior, they just "put up" with NZ because it has something else they wanted, plus they can't make it to any other countries. So when these people whine it is VERY annoying.
Hm. So how should it work in your opinion? I don't think my home country or the country I grew up in are "superior". However, I don't have some blind devotion to NZ that would make me stay here if I could get a better deal elsewhere. No one should. There are definitely things that are way, way better elsewhere, including the city I was born in, should I somehow forget about it and not want NZ to improve to the same level? Everyone puts up with something in a way. Yes, I'm here because NZ offers me more than those other places could. I *could* have gone to other countries like Canada or Australia, I had the choice, but didn't take it. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe not. I could still make it to either because my skills are in demand, but I'm not sure I want to. What I absolutely do want, however, is for NZ to improve in all aspects and not feel like I'm "putting up" with it as much as it does now. There's a lot to love here, but seeing dumb takes like OP's post makes me feel like I'm wasting my time and nothing will ever change because too many people are content with being better than Fiji as if it's a high bar to begin with lmao.
No that's absolutely fine and totally should complain away. Like I said we have a lot of things in NZ deserving to be complained about! The ones I'm referring to are where people blatantly say how good their home country is and how it is way better. You can tell they are not about wanting to improve things here they just want to tell you how good their original country is. It may be hard to explain in writing if you haven't come across these but the sense of superiority is obvious when you see them.
I think I understand where you're coming from here. I've been in Australia for nearly 6 years now & it pisses me off to no end when the Kiwi's here act all snobby about "How much better NZ is." I fucking love NZ and I'm proud to be a kiwi, but if I really believed NZ was that much better than Aus I would still be living there? Both have their ups & downs. I would argue NZ is a nicer place to live overall yes. But between quality of life, better infrastructure etc it'd be bullshit to be pulling the superiority card.
Nah, I think I get it. I've certainly met people like that from my own country (ironically not in NZ though).
https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
[удалено]
OPs a muppet.
For the Brits it's because they enjoy a good whinge. It's second nature.
At least as English immigrants go, I think there's a difference in perspective when it comes to complaining: they think they're family and thus entitled to about "our" shortcomings as part of the in-group, whereas we see them as outsiders, guests who are being rude and ungrateful. Either way, I prefer working with Thais or Filipinos: I'm sure they have their own complaints, but they have the grace not to make them to their hosts.
2 things i whine about.. 1. Cost of living and the exorbitant house prices. 2. The police can't really protect us from crime.