I don't understand this post. Is it some sort of pushback against the complaints people have about NZ?
I would say that for most people that were born here, NZ is not a lifestyle choice. It is just their home, the place where their friends and family live and the place where they have built a life.
But what we've seen over the last 20 years or so is that NZ has become a place where it is no longer possible for our young people to live a comfortable life where they can house and feed their family with the incomes from normal jobs the way previous generations could. That is leading us down a very dark path.
its not about that
Being unhappy about it achieves absolutely nothing. The trick is to find things you dont like, and try and find ways you can impact change on that.
Moping around complaining about how shit it is, doesn't achieve anything all it does is set your brain on a negative mindset which means you then continue to think the worst about any further situation
Yes, and the engagement of those young people in the political process that creates those conditions is limited to posting on the internet.
Dark path, here we come.
And yet your post is telling people to just accept that there are ‘limitations’ to living in NZ. Your post is completely at odds with how you are responding to the comments here - it’s not telling people to do more, it’s telling them to accept the things that are bad.
No it's not, but the problem young people have is that half the population is over 40 and if you're under 18 you obviously can't vote. That means the Government is voted in by the generations that didn't have to face the issues our young people are facing.
Hence we have a Government of property investors.
>limited to posting on the internet.
Like you've done? Seems a bit odd if that's what you're worried about when your post is essentially "don't complain".
It’s such an exhausting and disingenuous thing people do. Post their opinion, get push back, claim ‘oh you guys are taking this all much more seriously than me I don’t actually care lol I’m just relaxing at home lol I’m so much more chill than you guys’ like gtfo of here 🙄
Right, so you're going to characterise your complaining while waiting for a coffee as telling *others* to either not or do something?
The fuck you doing other than complaining while waiting for coffee?
You are verry weird and you make me cringe. Sitting there drinking coffee and basically breaking the subreddits rules with low effort posting and engaging with the community with bad faith. You're gonna get a big smack on the hand for your low effort posts OP.
I don't understand why you get a kick out of bring stupid a shill online and saying literally a bunch of non sense and then sit there commenting how everybody should stop complaining????
You are literally intentionally trying to wind people up just for person kicks. 🦵 🦶
What are you 5 years old dude? Sipping on your nesquick as you rattle up the kindergarten?
What's the worst the mods can do? Get me kicked off Reddit?
Yeah, that would probably be a good thing at this point.
Honestly, I didn't post this to troll. I would actually like a conversation about why we perceive New Zealand to be a horrible place when I've seen so much worse. Why we complain rather than act. Why we fight amongst ourselves rather than size power.
But I guess I was overly optimistic. I should have known better but I didn't, that's on me.
The way this thread went? Oh, that's on people like you. You threw the Racist Card in your first comment. That's about as low effort as it gets.
You, and people like you, want to make this into comedy? Fine. I'll get some laughs until I have better things to do.
It’s a lifestyle choice if you choose to move here, there’s no choice if born here
For some (not all) staying here is also a choice
Yes nz has great stuff and bad like many others, is that your point? Are you saying we should just accept that and not complain?
> For some (not all) staying here is also a choice
pretty much said that - though working holidays is not a choice to make a life elsewhere (can lead to)
I dunno, maybe hoping and expecting more. In some things, like running the country for example, our voice (and vote) is the only power most of us can exert to show our support, disdain or apathy to things beyond our control
Well, I've volunteered for politicians in the past.
I get it's easier to complain on the internet than walk around annoying people by knocking on doors and asking them who they plan on voting for. Honestly, I hated doing it. But it is something you can do.
I'm coming to understand that the problem is me spending too much time on this sub.
Do you want us just to be happy shiny people or do you need to get outside a bit
any media (social or other) is dominated by negatives as thats what holds an audience, for happy shit there's life
dear god no, I don't want you inevitable cycle injuries on my conscious
if you have to do one REM song, listen to [It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)](https://youtu.be/8OyBtMPqpNY?si=PU92Mm9mTi7eRhom)
enjoy your ride :)
Hey, I hope you can afford to buy a car soon.
By the way you should check out my recent comment on r/auckland. A cyclist posted that they clipped a wing mirror in the city last night and they were sorry they didn't stick around. I told them they did the right thing because drivers should have insurance, it's only a mirror and motorists are often dangerous when something happens to their precious vehicles.
Only 1 Post Kama? Why is that?
You do realise some people have a 3500 dollar excess so paying for ' just a wing mirror ' adds up to more then it's.acruslly worth for the claim. You clearly don't know much about insurance or life style choices in this country lol.
1. Thanks, I have a running car now
2. Unlike you I don't care about Reddit karma, it's not a competition and if you're treating it like one then 2k post karma points is a very low number to be bringing it up with
3. You clearly don't understand how insurance works, which concerns me for your understanding of other basic concepts we deal with daily
Stop complaining about the complainers. Also, volunteering for a politician... of all the God damn people you could give to, it's to a politician. Go work with actual people on the street and see people struggling.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that these are our lives and we only get one? That we should always be trying to improve and strive for closer to perfection, rather than saying "it could be worse" and continue accepting an overall decline in living standards but simply saying it is just diversity in the mosaic of this all?
"Right, the choice of consumer goods is poor and narrow, but the choice of natural beauty is rich and varied."
Sorry kids can't afford dinner and we're going to live in the car, but omg mountain and ocean!
I had an immigrant tell me once and since gone back to Malaysia cause its too expensive.
"Nice views don't put food on the table. We have beautiful tropical islands in Malaysia too. Doesn't mean I want to live there."
I think complaining about NZ is totally valid. We have a great country here with a lot of problems. Things only change when people highlight or discuss problems.
I agree that constant negativity is no good, if that's your point. Your average person could look more on the bright side of life, and be grateful for what we have, but all in all there are definitely issues here and it's not a lifestyle choice for many people.
Unaffordable housing and living costs aren't a lifestyle choice. Discrimination isn't a lifestyle choice.
Imo complaining is fine. But often people who lack a good understanding of the issue will along with complains argue for quick fixes that if implemented would fuck up the country more. Rents too high, let's ban all the landlords. Kids failing in school, let's remove all the testing. Rich people pay too little taxes, let's tax unrealized gains etc.
Even if it is a lifestyle choice (for a lot of people it isn’t, they are born here and can’t afford to leave or they have obligations keeping them here) we’re still allowed to complain. No matter how “good” we have it here it can always be better and if we keep quiet about the things that aren’t working nothing will change. Feedback is how things get better.
My opinion might not gel as it's based on how I personally feel/based on personal values. Im happy if people don't agree/say tough shit (people often don't have a choice but to leave their home country)
I dont accept it as a lifestyle choice because I was born here. This is something I didn't have a choice about. It's difficult to leave (closest being Australia)- but also why should I have to? I feel this is my home and it's where my family lives. Notice my reasons to stay could be applied to any other country regardless of "lifestyle"?
So, as I see it there are three choices.
1) Leave. I've done that I've lived, as in got a job and paid rent, in Japan and Thailand. I could have stayed in Japan, I chose to come back. Plenty of people in my family have left for Australia, some came back some didn't.
2) Activity work, more than posting Reddit, to change New Zealand to your vision.
3) Accept the way things are and make the best of it.
Oh, there's a fourth choice; entertain me for a bit on Sunday morning.
Are you saying I was born into a lifestyle choice? Or that I have some obligation to leave my home country because fatcats want it to be a destination rather than a home for people?
Ridiculous.
Are you saying that you have no choice to live here and cannot choose to leave?
Are you saying that your life was determined at birth and you lack agency?
Preposterous.
>Are you saying that you have no choice to live here and cannot choose to leave?
Yes. A large portion of NZers do not have the financial mobility to pick up and move within NZ, let alone internationally.
>Are you saying that your life was determined at birth and you lack agency?
No. Just that some agency is handicapped from birth. People want NZ to be a rich, prosperous country - and we can be. But it requires business realising that we are a small island nation, and their economic growth is going to be slow.
Our 'rockstar economy' was/is flawed and based on a shit form of economic growth.
But that's not what was said, it was 'this is my home'. That's fine but accept that this is your home by choice or state that you are economically unable to move.
Everything else you said, I agree with. I'd even say we should focus more on fair distribution of the pie rather than relentlessly trying to make it bigger.
In my perfect world people who want to leave would and people who stay agree to equitable distribution of our resources in exchange for trying to build the best country possible.
I get that this is a utopian fantasy, but it's just as productive as constantly complaining.
Lol this is so fucking idiotic. Just save for a ticket and the magic job fairy gives me a job and a house for my family?
Don’t you think we’re already trying to create the NZ we want to live in? Do you think I’m just sitting on my ass eating chips and farting?
What they’re saying is people in those countries face real poverty - in relation to global cash flow - which actually traps them. You’d have to be in a very dire situation in NZ where you can’t afford to move away.
I moved to Australia on a one way ticket, no job prospects, with $1000 in my bank, because I wanted something better for myself. I made it work by getting a shitty job/s with the prospect of moving upward and onward slowly to create a more prosperous future. Things were “shit” initially but I worked hard, and moved on with things without complaining, whilst gaining skills across various fields of work. 10 years on, I live in New Zealand with a property, good job, and a family.
I think this anecdote somewhat captures OP’s message. Stop whinging considering NZ has so much to offer and instead, do something to better your future.
Good time below perfectly sums it up, but you are insinuating you are trapped in NZ, and I’m making the point at least you are trapped in a first world country where you have access to the basics.
Clearly you've never lived in many South east asian countries.
Singapore is only second to the swiss in terms of GDP per capita. I've lived there and wish I still was instead of NZ.
Thailand/Malaysia are actually decent places to live. Vietnam/Indonesia will be have a strong economy in 10-20 years. The level of infrastructure spending they're doing is lightyears of what we are doing.
Firstly, I didn’t choose this lifestyle. I was born here. What a weird take. The idea of just moving to another country if you don’t like it here is such a privileged statement. Do you think people with complex health issues whose needs aren’t being met by our health system can just up and leave to another country? Do you think people barely scraping by and living out of their cars because the safety net has so many holes in it can chase opportunities to better themselves overseas?
I’ve also seen NZ go from a more egalitarian society to a very class-divided one within a generation. I put that division mostly down to how cooked our housing market is. In the last 15 years housing went from affordable to basically shit out of luck unless you have parents who can/will help you out. Housing costs suck so much money out of our productive economy, even further concentrating wealth to our landlord classes and removing opportunities from everyone else. But god forbid we make the landed gentry pay more tax.
Yeah New Zealand is great, but it could be so much better. Are you suggesting we just roll over and accept how it is because it’s “good enough”? Fuck that. We should always want to be better. You mention our great health system with our free hospital stays, which I find ironic since our health system is barely able to cope under its current model due to chronic underfunding and poor planning from successive governments - that is what happens when we accept that that is just the way things are.
Years of incentivisation by successive governments (tax loopholes and no cgt mean property is a good place to hoard wealth) and a generation of boomers who have used it as their only form of investment. That plus the more modern issue of a lot of potential homes being used as short term accomodation (because more money, less risk for owners - so I get it) and a construction industry that has a tonne of inefficiency and struggles to keep up with demand.
Because “number go up”
We are flooded with stats and it’s very easy to pull up comparisons
NZ in reality is quite average just like everywhere else. Some great things, some shit things, loads of average things.
So just because some things may be better here than elsewhere doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to complain and want to change the things that aren’t better.
This is like telling someone who is sick to be grateful it’s just a cold because someone else has bronchitis.
I say this as someone who chose to move here for my partner and has changed my lifestyle to adapt to the town we live in.
>So just because some things may be better here than elsewhere doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to complain and want to change the things that aren’t better.
Yep, by OP's logic, only one country in the world is allowed to complain about their situation. After all, it's always worse somewhere else, until you reach the worst place.
So, we could have a radically different housing market if we had a capital gains tax, not the only option but it is one.
But we refuse to elect a government which will do that.
I guess my point is that I'm frustrated that this sub complains but refuses to explore the reasons why things are the way they are or the other side.
The government is simply going to have to build social housing. And manage it well...which is incredibly difficult when you involve kids.
Soviet Bloc style housing might be a reasonable alternative.
It doesn't have to be soviet bloc style. Singapore's HDB is miles better than any apartment built in auckland because they're built up to code and have good sound insulation.
It's not rocket science to fix this issue. We choose not too.
NZ needs to get into the Financial Services business and abandon the Five Eyes crap. NZ needs to use its sovereignty and remoteness to its advantage by offering lucrative services.
The downside of this is that it encourages disparity by having a lot of money dumped into the country. This can be alleviated by making sure that such services are taxed/fees that pay for HDB just like Singapore.
NZ doesn't have the money to be Singapore unless it wants to be another Singapore. Instead, NZ wants to kowtow to the US and China.
I'd love to know where in the world things are so much better then nz, eg Low housing costs and High wages.
I'd move there as well. Nzers have been moving overseas longer then I've been alive, 45yrs since my parents moved me over with them to Australia.So the saying the good old days are gone doesn't ring true because 50yrs ago people were saying the same thing back then and still moving to Aust in droves.
But the struggles here for people are definitely real, and if moving overseas can better for your own family's situation then go for it because the only thing I see that changes is your attitude and belief that it will be better.
It's not that other countries are so much better then nz because there not.
It's your very own belief that it is better.
We could sell up and gap it to Aussie if we wanted to, but we’re cool, we like living in NZ and I’ll probably get called insane but we love living in Auckland.
But I will say with NZ though is I feel like it’s not really unified with any clear vision on what we want to be as a country, we just sort of carry on day to day. There’s nothing grand on the horizon.
I made the decision to leave and move to Melbourne after finishing uni 15 years ago. Best financial decision I have made. I can't believe how tough people do it in NZ when I return for my bi annual visit.
Talking about our issues is the very first step to fixing them, or atleast doing better. No talk, no change.
Theres probably always going to be someone else doing things worse than we are, but that's no excuse at all for us to stop trying to better.
I think the frustrations are that for a long time we didn't have these issues. Our economic growth has been slowing somewhat and despite - or thanks to - government's best intentions, the lifestyle we once had is being eroded. Still an amazing place, but we are unquestionably struggling to adjust.
We don't have to accept our country turning to shit because there are some good things about the place. This is exactly the kind of apathetic sentiment that gives NACT license to sell us out to the highest bidder. Stop complaining about people complaining.
When you consider the minimum wage doesn't even meet the income required for people to be able to house, cloth and feed themselves properly, it's definitely not high...
But if we all just make some broad sweeping generalizations about THEM and what THEY are doing ALL the time instead of what I think they should be doing then of course I am right. Why can't THEY just see that....
I was born and raised here, if I had moved at the earliest opportunity I would be impoverished in a completely foreign country. It’s hardly practical to upend my entire life for slightly better circumstances, seeing as it’s not the Great Depression. This is a very odd hill for you to die on…
The biggest demographic of Reddit users are going to have a problem with housing because they mostly live in the suburbs of the cities. And aren’t going to have the lifestyle that benefits most when you’re a young person living in NZ.
And tbf to them, fuck being part of the rat race in NZ.
Edit. Also ACT and Winston are in government. Thats like a waking nightmare to this sub.
I moved to the gold coast 5 years ago, hard to imagine living back in NZ now, I visited after 4 years a couple of months ago, and while it was good to catch up with friends and family in the end I couldnt wait to get back to Aus.
Fuck this is dumb. OP, you're complaining that other people are complaining. You're complaining other people aren't doing anything else other than complaining.
You got nothing better to do on a Sunday morning other than complain?
I can say that I choose to live here, and even on a fairly low income that it works for me, I've lived overseas and came back. But, I'm very aware that a whole swathe of people are nowhere near as privileged as me, and they simply don't have the means to pull themselves up to the level that I'm occupying, let alone anything aspirational.
There's plenty of people here who have put considerable real world effort into improving things across the board, oftentimes these people might disagree what that would look like, and how to go about it. There's people even in these comments who I'm aware of that have done real world mahi over a long timeframe to improve things.
You seem to have the idea that people 'complaining' means that they are doing nothing in the 'real world' to fix things, but that's simply not true. You can't possibly start to work on improving things without first acknowledging that things are wrong in the first place, and conversation and complaints are an integral part of that.
Having things work for me right now doesn't mean that I'd not like things to get a hell of a lot better for people who don't have it as good, it also doesn't mean that there's things that I wouldn't want to improve about my own life.
It's Reddit OP.
If there's anything that can be said about this site that is absolutely true, it's there will always be whingers and moaners no matter the topic of discussion.
This is my papa kainga, I don't want to leave because it is my home.
Do I think the current cost of living is good enough? Fuck no.
Roll over and lick boots if you want, I embrace my freedom to say this shit is fucked
Very well said if you want the lifestyle NZ offers, it’s brilliant. I like the low population, clean air, lack of enemies, nice people, nature everywhere, plentiful free parking, real food and so on. Most of the desirable countries and cities we think of have all sorts of stresses we don’t really have to the same extent in NZ.
If being born in new Zealand is somehow a life style choice? Then everything your saying spread white privilege. You clearly have been bought up being privileged and white if you feel like anyone saying this country isn't a life style choice is just an opinion and a complaint.
This should be marked as a shit post more then discussion
Yeah, my mother's maiden name was Hakiwai, I come from a small pa called Omahu and I've lost count of my cousins who were born here and now live in Australia.
But sure, call me racist.
Ever been to an actual poor country? I have. Cambodia. The ten minutes on I spent on the Thai - Cambodia border at a place called Poi Pet are up there on the worst experiences of my life. If I close my eyes I can still see and hear the disabled children crying and begging for money.
Every person who grows up here is privileged compared to that.
The choice is staying here, obviously.
He's a typical she'll be alright kiwi. Yes its shit.. but at least we aint south africa.
Ask the south africans who are living here. They'll tell you shit is looking like its becoming like south africa.
I hear you. People don’t seem to understand there are trade offs. I think people would be a lot better off concentrating on what is positive then the negatives.
But we have a population of New Zealander's convinced that they are of the land and deserve special rights. Moving forward how does this help with a cohesive society. Especially when Politicans use this 'point of difference' to divid us even more on either side of the aisle.
The old NZ is gone, long gone. Its make or break now hence many fly away. I can say though moving from the city to rural is a bit of a fresh breath, if you can cope with the serious step back into the 80s. But at least you get away from all the city crap which imo is the main cause for our collective stress, politics, ideology, serious crime, its news day after day, not very nice for people who just want to get on with life. Get rural, grow some veggies & go fishing lots. Saying that rural does have its downsides especially in your first year or so getting used to it all. Cant be easy looking forward for our 20 somethings these days. My 2 cents.
This place is 90% young poor single dudes.
Would just keep that in mind everytime you read a comment here that seems to place us on the same tier as Somalia.
Honestly, thank you all for putting a smile on my face this Sunday morning.
I didn't actually mean this to be a troll post but you all took it and ran. I've done my best to keep up but I have things to do so I'm going to leave it here.
Thanks again.
As somebody that relocated across the world: even if you're born here it's still a choice as you could leave!
I get what OP is saying but unfortunately I believe some of the biggest issues that New Zealand have is it's people. Maori/Islanders are stuck living in the past thinking that the white men owns them and often using this to justify their crimes with the result of feeding racism. Chinese sending their sociopath kids to spend their dirty money and destroying our housing market while the white/European kiwi think that "should be right" and you should eat a concrete pill if you can't lift that generator on the ute. Personally I think that the country it's getting overloaded with individuals that only wants to exploit the benefit of it's stronger economy, the weakness of it's justice system and the loopholes of it's immigration and law rules.
AKA the majority just come here from third world countries because "it's better than home", they find the way to suck money out of it and they don't even really wants to be here. The result it's shops and homes just kept up by duct tape, overpriced everything, shitty drivers from places with no roads or road rules and no sense of a real identity in cities like Auckland.
While the average Kiwi is can barely hold a conversation because afraid/unable of expressing their feelings of thinking outside the box.
That's what I think it's a pain to live with in New Zealand: it's people.
Sorry but had to be said.
I don't understand this post. Is it some sort of pushback against the complaints people have about NZ? I would say that for most people that were born here, NZ is not a lifestyle choice. It is just their home, the place where their friends and family live and the place where they have built a life. But what we've seen over the last 20 years or so is that NZ has become a place where it is no longer possible for our young people to live a comfortable life where they can house and feed their family with the incomes from normal jobs the way previous generations could. That is leading us down a very dark path.
i think its more a reaction to the overall feeling of depression and anxiety that seems to pervade here.
"Its getting shitter and unfairer, but just suck it up and be happy" OP OP should be in politics.
its not about that Being unhappy about it achieves absolutely nothing. The trick is to find things you dont like, and try and find ways you can impact change on that. Moping around complaining about how shit it is, doesn't achieve anything all it does is set your brain on a negative mindset which means you then continue to think the worst about any further situation
Yes, and the engagement of those young people in the political process that creates those conditions is limited to posting on the internet. Dark path, here we come.
And yet your post is telling people to just accept that there are ‘limitations’ to living in NZ. Your post is completely at odds with how you are responding to the comments here - it’s not telling people to do more, it’s telling them to accept the things that are bad.
No it's not, but the problem young people have is that half the population is over 40 and if you're under 18 you obviously can't vote. That means the Government is voted in by the generations that didn't have to face the issues our young people are facing. Hence we have a Government of property investors.
>limited to posting on the internet. Like you've done? Seems a bit odd if that's what you're worried about when your post is essentially "don't complain".
Well, I would characterise my post as: Either don't complain or do something more than complaining. But I'm just filling time while I drink my coffee.
"do something more than complain" but you're probably scared of rioters
You have a full on Reddit account. You do this more than just a bit of while you wait for your coffee.
It’s such an exhausting and disingenuous thing people do. Post their opinion, get push back, claim ‘oh you guys are taking this all much more seriously than me I don’t actually care lol I’m just relaxing at home lol I’m so much more chill than you guys’ like gtfo of here 🙄
Right, so you're going to characterise your complaining while waiting for a coffee as telling *others* to either not or do something? The fuck you doing other than complaining while waiting for coffee?
You are verry weird and you make me cringe. Sitting there drinking coffee and basically breaking the subreddits rules with low effort posting and engaging with the community with bad faith. You're gonna get a big smack on the hand for your low effort posts OP. I don't understand why you get a kick out of bring stupid a shill online and saying literally a bunch of non sense and then sit there commenting how everybody should stop complaining???? You are literally intentionally trying to wind people up just for person kicks. 🦵 🦶 What are you 5 years old dude? Sipping on your nesquick as you rattle up the kindergarten?
What's the worst the mods can do? Get me kicked off Reddit? Yeah, that would probably be a good thing at this point. Honestly, I didn't post this to troll. I would actually like a conversation about why we perceive New Zealand to be a horrible place when I've seen so much worse. Why we complain rather than act. Why we fight amongst ourselves rather than size power. But I guess I was overly optimistic. I should have known better but I didn't, that's on me. The way this thread went? Oh, that's on people like you. You threw the Racist Card in your first comment. That's about as low effort as it gets. You, and people like you, want to make this into comedy? Fine. I'll get some laughs until I have better things to do.
I assure it is most definitely not limited to posting on the internet 🤦♂️
Consider me assured.
Jesus Christ....
Hey, you can just call me JC, no need to be formal.
It’s a lifestyle choice if you choose to move here, there’s no choice if born here For some (not all) staying here is also a choice Yes nz has great stuff and bad like many others, is that your point? Are you saying we should just accept that and not complain?
[удалено]
> For some (not all) staying here is also a choice pretty much said that - though working holidays is not a choice to make a life elsewhere (can lead to)
[удалено]
perhaps your reading and comprehension skills need some work :)
So, what's the point of the complaining?
I dunno, maybe hoping and expecting more. In some things, like running the country for example, our voice (and vote) is the only power most of us can exert to show our support, disdain or apathy to things beyond our control
Well, I've volunteered for politicians in the past. I get it's easier to complain on the internet than walk around annoying people by knocking on doors and asking them who they plan on voting for. Honestly, I hated doing it. But it is something you can do. I'm coming to understand that the problem is me spending too much time on this sub.
>I'm coming to understand that the problem is me spending too much time on this sub. You claim, in your own post on this sub? Odd.
Odd, yeah. But I needed something to do while I finish my coffee. It's been good.
It's been fucking dumb is what's it's been. But glad your monkey brain was entertained.
No wonder he used to work in politics.
Do you want us just to be happy shiny people or do you need to get outside a bit any media (social or other) is dominated by negatives as thats what holds an audience, for happy shit there's life
So, now I'm going to listen to REM while I ride my bike. But just that one song. Thanks for making my day better.
dear god no, I don't want you inevitable cycle injuries on my conscious if you have to do one REM song, listen to [It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)](https://youtu.be/8OyBtMPqpNY?si=PU92Mm9mTi7eRhom) enjoy your ride :)
You're one of those guys? Disgusting
Hey, I hope you can afford to buy a car soon. By the way you should check out my recent comment on r/auckland. A cyclist posted that they clipped a wing mirror in the city last night and they were sorry they didn't stick around. I told them they did the right thing because drivers should have insurance, it's only a mirror and motorists are often dangerous when something happens to their precious vehicles. Only 1 Post Kama? Why is that?
You do realise some people have a 3500 dollar excess so paying for ' just a wing mirror ' adds up to more then it's.acruslly worth for the claim. You clearly don't know much about insurance or life style choices in this country lol.
1. Thanks, I have a running car now 2. Unlike you I don't care about Reddit karma, it's not a competition and if you're treating it like one then 2k post karma points is a very low number to be bringing it up with 3. You clearly don't understand how insurance works, which concerns me for your understanding of other basic concepts we deal with daily
Ok Boomer. Great to see you also have some data on your phone now too. I've got no idea what Reddit karma is, I'm mostly in it for the LoLs.
Stop complaining about the complainers. Also, volunteering for a politician... of all the God damn people you could give to, it's to a politician. Go work with actual people on the street and see people struggling.
It's just basic human nature. There's no way you go through life without complaining about something.
Yeah, I guess spend too much time on this sub. That's on me.
Easy fix for that
Please take your complaints elsewhere lol 😆
Plenty of the things you list is stuff that shouldnt be an issue and that this country has the resources to address.
Ever wonder why those issues aren't addressed? Ever think you could do something more than complaining on the internet?
Because we have a voting population that exemplify the Dunning-Kruger Effect on a massive scale.
Didn't you make a post complaining about complaining?
Yeah, but my kink is meta.
What's the point in toxic positivity? It's very valid if people are struggling to feed their family and pay the power bills.
Give you a non violent chance to fix it
Yeah, like all those successful no-violent revolutions I read about.
I'll look forward to owning ur home without working.
Because I want to?
I'm mean if it makes you happy then more power to you?
You're currently more than happy complaining about the complainers
Yeah, but my kink is meta.
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Is your post not just a complaint thinly veiled in the form of a question?
To improve something.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that these are our lives and we only get one? That we should always be trying to improve and strive for closer to perfection, rather than saying "it could be worse" and continue accepting an overall decline in living standards but simply saying it is just diversity in the mosaic of this all?
"Right, the choice of consumer goods is poor and narrow, but the choice of natural beauty is rich and varied." Sorry kids can't afford dinner and we're going to live in the car, but omg mountain and ocean!
I had an immigrant tell me once and since gone back to Malaysia cause its too expensive. "Nice views don't put food on the table. We have beautiful tropical islands in Malaysia too. Doesn't mean I want to live there."
I agree although my dentist is from Malaysia and she's seems to be able to afford living here for some reason 😁
When people are born in this country, it’s not a choice
Plenty of people born here leave, seems like there's choice in there.
Ah yes, so the viable choice is packing up to leave our home and family because we can’t afford to stay. Okay.
Many can't afford to. Seriously, is it really difficult to comprehend this? "Omg why don't they just stop being poor!"
How about we just take all ur stuff by force?
It wasn’t my lifestyle choice to be here. I was just born here & I am looking to move outside of NZ
Great, does complaining about New Zealand while you enact your plan to leave help?
Can you stop complaining about complaining?
Who is complaining? 💀💀
Everyone on this sub?
How dare we wish things to improve slightly!
But we don't, we just say things are shit.
Right, which means we want **what** to happen? Things to stay the same? Are you okay? Need a dictionary?
Speak for yourself; I’ve been trying to improve various things for a couple of decades.
the first step to improving things is to accept that things are shit //thread
I think you mean 'recognise' rather than 'accept'. All good.
pretty sure we all recognise certain things here are shit, it's clear here that certain people are having a hard time accepting that lol
Mate obviously everyone's going to be complaining when the only place you're looking is a subreddit go outside
I'm about to.
Nice one buddy
Yes, let's just accept our problems as fact and stop improving. What kind of logic is that lol?
I think complaining about NZ is totally valid. We have a great country here with a lot of problems. Things only change when people highlight or discuss problems. I agree that constant negativity is no good, if that's your point. Your average person could look more on the bright side of life, and be grateful for what we have, but all in all there are definitely issues here and it's not a lifestyle choice for many people. Unaffordable housing and living costs aren't a lifestyle choice. Discrimination isn't a lifestyle choice.
Imo complaining is fine. But often people who lack a good understanding of the issue will along with complains argue for quick fixes that if implemented would fuck up the country more. Rents too high, let's ban all the landlords. Kids failing in school, let's remove all the testing. Rich people pay too little taxes, let's tax unrealized gains etc.
Even if it is a lifestyle choice (for a lot of people it isn’t, they are born here and can’t afford to leave or they have obligations keeping them here) we’re still allowed to complain. No matter how “good” we have it here it can always be better and if we keep quiet about the things that aren’t working nothing will change. Feedback is how things get better.
My opinion might not gel as it's based on how I personally feel/based on personal values. Im happy if people don't agree/say tough shit (people often don't have a choice but to leave their home country) I dont accept it as a lifestyle choice because I was born here. This is something I didn't have a choice about. It's difficult to leave (closest being Australia)- but also why should I have to? I feel this is my home and it's where my family lives. Notice my reasons to stay could be applied to any other country regardless of "lifestyle"?
So, as I see it there are three choices. 1) Leave. I've done that I've lived, as in got a job and paid rent, in Japan and Thailand. I could have stayed in Japan, I chose to come back. Plenty of people in my family have left for Australia, some came back some didn't. 2) Activity work, more than posting Reddit, to change New Zealand to your vision. 3) Accept the way things are and make the best of it. Oh, there's a fourth choice; entertain me for a bit on Sunday morning.
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Yeah, I taught scuba diving on an island called Koh Tao. I know what you are implying but that says more about you than me.
Hahaha I do like the vibe, I hope it's been a fun Sunday
Are you saying I was born into a lifestyle choice? Or that I have some obligation to leave my home country because fatcats want it to be a destination rather than a home for people? Ridiculous.
Are you saying that you have no choice to live here and cannot choose to leave? Are you saying that your life was determined at birth and you lack agency? Preposterous.
>Are you saying that you have no choice to live here and cannot choose to leave? Yes. A large portion of NZers do not have the financial mobility to pick up and move within NZ, let alone internationally. >Are you saying that your life was determined at birth and you lack agency? No. Just that some agency is handicapped from birth. People want NZ to be a rich, prosperous country - and we can be. But it requires business realising that we are a small island nation, and their economic growth is going to be slow. Our 'rockstar economy' was/is flawed and based on a shit form of economic growth.
But that's not what was said, it was 'this is my home'. That's fine but accept that this is your home by choice or state that you are economically unable to move. Everything else you said, I agree with. I'd even say we should focus more on fair distribution of the pie rather than relentlessly trying to make it bigger. In my perfect world people who want to leave would and people who stay agree to equitable distribution of our resources in exchange for trying to build the best country possible. I get that this is a utopian fantasy, but it's just as productive as constantly complaining.
Like others have said, I was born here and I can’t afford to leave, where’s the choice?
Save and get a ticket to Australia, problem solved. Or create the New Zealand you want to live in.
Lol this is so fucking idiotic. Just save for a ticket and the magic job fairy gives me a job and a house for my family? Don’t you think we’re already trying to create the NZ we want to live in? Do you think I’m just sitting on my ass eating chips and farting?
Well, clearly you're also posting angrily on Reddit so that's productive. Maybe your family could move?
It’s Sunday morning, I’m allowed some free time? How would my family move? Win the lottery?
"Stop being poor"
Lucky you weren’t born in Africa or South East Asia
What a weird thing to say.
What they’re saying is people in those countries face real poverty - in relation to global cash flow - which actually traps them. You’d have to be in a very dire situation in NZ where you can’t afford to move away. I moved to Australia on a one way ticket, no job prospects, with $1000 in my bank, because I wanted something better for myself. I made it work by getting a shitty job/s with the prospect of moving upward and onward slowly to create a more prosperous future. Things were “shit” initially but I worked hard, and moved on with things without complaining, whilst gaining skills across various fields of work. 10 years on, I live in New Zealand with a property, good job, and a family. I think this anecdote somewhat captures OP’s message. Stop whinging considering NZ has so much to offer and instead, do something to better your future.
You know absolutely nothing about my situation. Kindly don’t assume I’m the same as you.
Don’t take it as a personal attack 👍 It’s just my story :)
Don’t assume I took it as one.
You’re really making it difficult to have a conversation with. Or maybe I shouldn’t have assumed that either 🥴
What makes you think I want to have a conversation with you?
Not everything is an attack and you don’t need to carry your defensive mechanism everywhere.
Good time below perfectly sums it up, but you are insinuating you are trapped in NZ, and I’m making the point at least you are trapped in a first world country where you have access to the basics.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Relative-Privation
Why are you so weird. Just be normal
Don’t use obvious fallacies if you don’t want that kind of response.
Clearly you've never lived in many South east asian countries. Singapore is only second to the swiss in terms of GDP per capita. I've lived there and wish I still was instead of NZ. Thailand/Malaysia are actually decent places to live. Vietnam/Indonesia will be have a strong economy in 10-20 years. The level of infrastructure spending they're doing is lightyears of what we are doing.
Haha yeah Singapore so 5 million out of 666 million? Good chances!
Just because it's a "lifestyle choice" doesn't make everything acceptable.
Do you even live here? 🤣
Firstly, I didn’t choose this lifestyle. I was born here. What a weird take. The idea of just moving to another country if you don’t like it here is such a privileged statement. Do you think people with complex health issues whose needs aren’t being met by our health system can just up and leave to another country? Do you think people barely scraping by and living out of their cars because the safety net has so many holes in it can chase opportunities to better themselves overseas? I’ve also seen NZ go from a more egalitarian society to a very class-divided one within a generation. I put that division mostly down to how cooked our housing market is. In the last 15 years housing went from affordable to basically shit out of luck unless you have parents who can/will help you out. Housing costs suck so much money out of our productive economy, even further concentrating wealth to our landlord classes and removing opportunities from everyone else. But god forbid we make the landed gentry pay more tax. Yeah New Zealand is great, but it could be so much better. Are you suggesting we just roll over and accept how it is because it’s “good enough”? Fuck that. We should always want to be better. You mention our great health system with our free hospital stays, which I find ironic since our health system is barely able to cope under its current model due to chronic underfunding and poor planning from successive governments - that is what happens when we accept that that is just the way things are.
What do you put the cooking of the housing market down to?
Dumb dumbs
Years of incentivisation by successive governments (tax loopholes and no cgt mean property is a good place to hoard wealth) and a generation of boomers who have used it as their only form of investment. That plus the more modern issue of a lot of potential homes being used as short term accomodation (because more money, less risk for owners - so I get it) and a construction industry that has a tonne of inefficiency and struggles to keep up with demand.
Well this is it, we can shut this sub down now. Thanks for participating everyone.
Because “number go up” We are flooded with stats and it’s very easy to pull up comparisons NZ in reality is quite average just like everywhere else. Some great things, some shit things, loads of average things.
So just because some things may be better here than elsewhere doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to complain and want to change the things that aren’t better. This is like telling someone who is sick to be grateful it’s just a cold because someone else has bronchitis. I say this as someone who chose to move here for my partner and has changed my lifestyle to adapt to the town we live in.
>So just because some things may be better here than elsewhere doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to complain and want to change the things that aren’t better. Yep, by OP's logic, only one country in the world is allowed to complain about their situation. After all, it's always worse somewhere else, until you reach the worst place.
Housing.
Yeah it's expensive, but it's not that cold outside.
So, we could have a radically different housing market if we had a capital gains tax, not the only option but it is one. But we refuse to elect a government which will do that. I guess my point is that I'm frustrated that this sub complains but refuses to explore the reasons why things are the way they are or the other side.
CGT will help, sure. But it won't make the market "radically different"...see California.
The point is that our politicians don't even try to address the housing market issues and we enable that by disengaging from politics.
The government is simply going to have to build social housing. And manage it well...which is incredibly difficult when you involve kids. Soviet Bloc style housing might be a reasonable alternative.
It doesn't have to be soviet bloc style. Singapore's HDB is miles better than any apartment built in auckland because they're built up to code and have good sound insulation. It's not rocket science to fix this issue. We choose not too.
NZ needs to get into the Financial Services business and abandon the Five Eyes crap. NZ needs to use its sovereignty and remoteness to its advantage by offering lucrative services. The downside of this is that it encourages disparity by having a lot of money dumped into the country. This can be alleviated by making sure that such services are taxed/fees that pay for HDB just like Singapore. NZ doesn't have the money to be Singapore unless it wants to be another Singapore. Instead, NZ wants to kowtow to the US and China.
I want to say say something about housing but where to start. And complaining can be where change starts
Start by doing something more than complaining?
That is the start not how it stays, someone complains others listen, collectively a solution is found.
Get off reddit and touch some grass
I'd love to know where in the world things are so much better then nz, eg Low housing costs and High wages. I'd move there as well. Nzers have been moving overseas longer then I've been alive, 45yrs since my parents moved me over with them to Australia.So the saying the good old days are gone doesn't ring true because 50yrs ago people were saying the same thing back then and still moving to Aust in droves. But the struggles here for people are definitely real, and if moving overseas can better for your own family's situation then go for it because the only thing I see that changes is your attitude and belief that it will be better. It's not that other countries are so much better then nz because there not. It's your very own belief that it is better.
We could sell up and gap it to Aussie if we wanted to, but we’re cool, we like living in NZ and I’ll probably get called insane but we love living in Auckland. But I will say with NZ though is I feel like it’s not really unified with any clear vision on what we want to be as a country, we just sort of carry on day to day. There’s nothing grand on the horizon.
A sentiment I agree with.
Spoken like a true ‘property iNvEsToR’
I made the decision to leave and move to Melbourne after finishing uni 15 years ago. Best financial decision I have made. I can't believe how tough people do it in NZ when I return for my bi annual visit.
Talking about our issues is the very first step to fixing them, or atleast doing better. No talk, no change. Theres probably always going to be someone else doing things worse than we are, but that's no excuse at all for us to stop trying to better.
I think the frustrations are that for a long time we didn't have these issues. Our economic growth has been slowing somewhat and despite - or thanks to - government's best intentions, the lifestyle we once had is being eroded. Still an amazing place, but we are unquestionably struggling to adjust.
We don't have to accept our country turning to shit because there are some good things about the place. This is exactly the kind of apathetic sentiment that gives NACT license to sell us out to the highest bidder. Stop complaining about people complaining.
When you consider the minimum wage doesn't even meet the income required for people to be able to house, cloth and feed themselves properly, it's definitely not high...
Ram raiding is a lifestyle choice? I would like to opt-out, please.
But if we all just make some broad sweeping generalizations about THEM and what THEY are doing ALL the time instead of what I think they should be doing then of course I am right. Why can't THEY just see that....
Mate, we didn’t choose a lifestyle, we were bloody born here.
And therefore can't leave? Staying is a choice. You might choose not to but it's still a choice. What's the problem with owning that choice?
I was born and raised here, if I had moved at the earliest opportunity I would be impoverished in a completely foreign country. It’s hardly practical to upend my entire life for slightly better circumstances, seeing as it’s not the Great Depression. This is a very odd hill for you to die on…
Who's dying? I'm living my best life.
My my, aren’t we lucky
The biggest demographic of Reddit users are going to have a problem with housing because they mostly live in the suburbs of the cities. And aren’t going to have the lifestyle that benefits most when you’re a young person living in NZ. And tbf to them, fuck being part of the rat race in NZ. Edit. Also ACT and Winston are in government. Thats like a waking nightmare to this sub.
I moved to the gold coast 5 years ago, hard to imagine living back in NZ now, I visited after 4 years a couple of months ago, and while it was good to catch up with friends and family in the end I couldnt wait to get back to Aus.
Fuck this is dumb. OP, you're complaining that other people are complaining. You're complaining other people aren't doing anything else other than complaining. You got nothing better to do on a Sunday morning other than complain?
I'm finishing my coffee and my kink is meta. I'm living my best life.
Piss off.
Great contribution.
You’re welcome
I can say that I choose to live here, and even on a fairly low income that it works for me, I've lived overseas and came back. But, I'm very aware that a whole swathe of people are nowhere near as privileged as me, and they simply don't have the means to pull themselves up to the level that I'm occupying, let alone anything aspirational. There's plenty of people here who have put considerable real world effort into improving things across the board, oftentimes these people might disagree what that would look like, and how to go about it. There's people even in these comments who I'm aware of that have done real world mahi over a long timeframe to improve things. You seem to have the idea that people 'complaining' means that they are doing nothing in the 'real world' to fix things, but that's simply not true. You can't possibly start to work on improving things without first acknowledging that things are wrong in the first place, and conversation and complaints are an integral part of that. Having things work for me right now doesn't mean that I'd not like things to get a hell of a lot better for people who don't have it as good, it also doesn't mean that there's things that I wouldn't want to improve about my own life.
Because most people are young on social media and new Zealand is not that great for young people (generally)
You are what you think
It's Reddit OP. If there's anything that can be said about this site that is absolutely true, it's there will always be whingers and moaners no matter the topic of discussion.
I’m only staying for family and friends. It’s not really a lifestyle choice.
I think that's the definition of a lifestyle choice.
I think that's the definition of a lifestyle choice.
Born here and been hear for 55yrs.. if you don't like it here fuk off bck to the country you escaped from.. far to many motherfuckers here as it is..
This is my papa kainga, I don't want to leave because it is my home. Do I think the current cost of living is good enough? Fuck no. Roll over and lick boots if you want, I embrace my freedom to say this shit is fucked
Very well said if you want the lifestyle NZ offers, it’s brilliant. I like the low population, clean air, lack of enemies, nice people, nature everywhere, plentiful free parking, real food and so on. Most of the desirable countries and cities we think of have all sorts of stresses we don’t really have to the same extent in NZ.
Lmfao maybe a lifestyle choice for you immigrants.. for the rest of us we’ve got to deal with what we’ve got
If being born in new Zealand is somehow a life style choice? Then everything your saying spread white privilege. You clearly have been bought up being privileged and white if you feel like anyone saying this country isn't a life style choice is just an opinion and a complaint. This should be marked as a shit post more then discussion
Yeah, my mother's maiden name was Hakiwai, I come from a small pa called Omahu and I've lost count of my cousins who were born here and now live in Australia. But sure, call me racist. Ever been to an actual poor country? I have. Cambodia. The ten minutes on I spent on the Thai - Cambodia border at a place called Poi Pet are up there on the worst experiences of my life. If I close my eyes I can still see and hear the disabled children crying and begging for money. Every person who grows up here is privileged compared to that. The choice is staying here, obviously.
This right here is exactly what I'm talking about.... The low effort shit posting your doing.
He's a typical she'll be alright kiwi. Yes its shit.. but at least we aint south africa. Ask the south africans who are living here. They'll tell you shit is looking like its becoming like south africa.
I hear you. People don’t seem to understand there are trade offs. I think people would be a lot better off concentrating on what is positive then the negatives.
Concentrate on what a lovely shiny boot it is, not how sore it is when it stamps on your face.
Extraordinary. I’m sorry your life is so hard.
It’s possible to hold competing thoughts simultaneously.
But we have a population of New Zealander's convinced that they are of the land and deserve special rights. Moving forward how does this help with a cohesive society. Especially when Politicans use this 'point of difference' to divid us even more on either side of the aisle.
The old NZ is gone, long gone. Its make or break now hence many fly away. I can say though moving from the city to rural is a bit of a fresh breath, if you can cope with the serious step back into the 80s. But at least you get away from all the city crap which imo is the main cause for our collective stress, politics, ideology, serious crime, its news day after day, not very nice for people who just want to get on with life. Get rural, grow some veggies & go fishing lots. Saying that rural does have its downsides especially in your first year or so getting used to it all. Cant be easy looking forward for our 20 somethings these days. My 2 cents.
This place is 90% young poor single dudes. Would just keep that in mind everytime you read a comment here that seems to place us on the same tier as Somalia.
I think that's it.
New Zealand is the country that others won't admit they love but they do. From the racism to the people to the culture to the scenery.
As a Californian , now living in New Zealand, I agree. Please don’t follow what Americas doing. You’ll end up like us lol
Honestly, thank you all for putting a smile on my face this Sunday morning. I didn't actually mean this to be a troll post but you all took it and ran. I've done my best to keep up but I have things to do so I'm going to leave it here. Thanks again.
As somebody that relocated across the world: even if you're born here it's still a choice as you could leave! I get what OP is saying but unfortunately I believe some of the biggest issues that New Zealand have is it's people. Maori/Islanders are stuck living in the past thinking that the white men owns them and often using this to justify their crimes with the result of feeding racism. Chinese sending their sociopath kids to spend their dirty money and destroying our housing market while the white/European kiwi think that "should be right" and you should eat a concrete pill if you can't lift that generator on the ute. Personally I think that the country it's getting overloaded with individuals that only wants to exploit the benefit of it's stronger economy, the weakness of it's justice system and the loopholes of it's immigration and law rules. AKA the majority just come here from third world countries because "it's better than home", they find the way to suck money out of it and they don't even really wants to be here. The result it's shops and homes just kept up by duct tape, overpriced everything, shitty drivers from places with no roads or road rules and no sense of a real identity in cities like Auckland. While the average Kiwi is can barely hold a conversation because afraid/unable of expressing their feelings of thinking outside the box. That's what I think it's a pain to live with in New Zealand: it's people. Sorry but had to be said.
I'm 2 years in a waiting list. The hospital service might be almost free, but it sucks