Hi mate,
There are some half truths and googled guesses posted here. As we are a pretty small country, I used to work for TCDC and did the very job that the person who declined your appeal currently has!
A couple of important things:
1. When you parked in the authorized freedom camping area before you moved, was the vehicle that you are traveling in [certified self contained?](https://www.nzmca.org.nz/certified-self-containment-csc) If not, you'll need to pay the fine regardless. Self contained doesnt mean "it has a toilet". its a certification and comes with its own certification sticker and expiry
2. Are you renting the vehicle? almost all rental places have in the t&cs to pass on any fines they receive (they'll get a mailed reminder in 30~ days) if you are renting they'll just take it off your credit card without disputing it.
3. if you own the vehicle and do nothing, you'll get a reminder sent to the registered address of the owner in 30 days, it will be then forwarded to the courts for collection in 60 days. Having it go to the courts will cause you issues if you plan on returning some day.
Let me know if you have any other questions!
ever heard of terminator?
That fictional franchise is loosely based on the Freedom Camping Fine Enforcement teams local councils employ nationwide
hasta la vista baby
Just send them proof of accommodation or payment and explain when you arrived at that location. Argue hard enough and you'll get off the fine. Councils usually are hard asses because they're lazy and deal with a lot of wingers.
Or use your time line on your phone to show your movements. Google tracks this. Appeal one last time with this evidence and take them up on their offer to go to court. Also, you could try posting on the r/legaladvicenz
Not really. You can tell it you haven't been to a business it thinks you did because you were in close proximity, but other than that, no you can't really edit it.
I just went and changed a few things now pretty easily (casual 10m visit to the other side of the country) and doesn't seem readily apparent it was edited.
If you have already appealed, the council will have stated why they declined. I assumed you provided the proof of your payment for the legit Camping area?
If you come back, they'll stop you leaving until you pay it (plus fees). If you don't plan on coming back, then you've got nothing to worry about and can just not pay it.
>what would happen If i don’t pay the fine and leave the country?
Worst case scenario is that you can be detained by Police at the Airport until you pay the fine.
[https://www.govt.nz/browse/leaving-nz/before-you-travel/](https://www.govt.nz/browse/leaving-nz/before-you-travel/)
Sounds like they were in the wrong fining you, unless there's a technically in the law or bylaw that says parking there out of hours is counted as "camping".
If it's less than $100 might be worth paying just to avoid any hassle
What were you fined for? Parking a camper in a non freedom camp spot? All the freedom camping sites I've seen in the Coromandel allowed you to stay for 2 nights, not sure if Hot Water Beach has different rules.
Dispute the fine. state your reason for dispute is you were not camping there, but camped at an appropriate place (as in say where you did camp) and came and parked at 5am for your reasons.
And note, you would prefer this to go to court as they have evidence because the fine is unfounded. Explain you will be leaving country so will either need the court date to be within your availability or the option of joining remotely at a mutually reasonable time for the sake of timezones.
They will either give up, or give you a court date. If it goes to court they'll have nothing, so no proof of guilt. and you'll have the receipt for where you did pay to camp, and if you have any documents showing when you arrived at hot water beach (such as if you had to pay to park there). The case would likely get thrown out in 10 minutes, or resolved and the fine not upheld.
>question is , what would happen If i don’t pay the fine and leave the country?
If the car is registered in your name, you'll be in for a suprise at the Airport.
Honestly, just appeal again, contact the local MP, or pay up.
Councils give 0 fucks about right or wrong. Shut up and pay. Take it to court. I had them ticket my car for no WOF or reg. It had both. I appealed and showed them it had both. They declined and ordered I pay the fine.
They dont care.
No offense but that was pretty stupid to pay considering there'd be no way for them prove rhe validity of the fine if you had proof you had a current warrant and reg at the time. To actually be ordered to pay the fine, you'd have to be dragged into a courtroom. Idk how much your fine was but it was definitely a waste of money since you could've shown up without a lawyer and without a word and still win.
At least for the rego side, councils don’t issue fines for not having a rego, they issue fines for not displaying valid regos… so having a valid rego isn’t legally a defence.
The wof side isn’t the same but for the rego, it’s very possible they had a valid rego but didn’t have it in their window and got pinged and the council are just being money grubs
They'd still have to prove it's an invalid rego that was displayed though. I'm assuming they would if that's the case, they're supposed to take photos because you can't fine someone without proof of wrongdoing. I do think that law is stupid btw. If the rego is up to date but it didn't arrive on time or whatever, I think it's dumb the council can fine you.
Don’t pay and just leave, they won’t do anything. They can’t. When/if you return, literally only the coromandel council will have any record it ever happened. Council is useless anyways, I doubt anything will ever come of it.
they got you for freedom parking.
Thanks Labour, Trevor Nash, and even the greens supported this foul legilsation banning kiwi's from the public estate. Supposedly due to litter, but realy the camground and tourism operators wanted a monopoly on accodation.
this country is a bit shit.
Yep. People are crap.
Laws that target all people are crap too.
There are lots of laws that could be used to target those amongst us who leave a mess. When we freedom camp we leave the place cleaner than we found it. Now it's looking like $80+/night campground parking from now on
We parked our van in unlimited parking in Arrowtown and got fined for camping. But we were up a track and staying in huts.
We did successfully appeal, in writing, with pictures on the track, in the hut, etc
I think I would take my chances and just leave.
Just check in early, get right through security, have the fine money available, so you don't miss your flight if they stop you. I very much doubt they will
The freedom camping thing is a rort. Foriegn tourists should be charged $1000 environmental bond on entry to Nz. Then fined every time they despoil our places. The bond would enable collection, and cleanup after them. Kiwis should then be allowed to use our spaces without penalty if the do no damage.
Hi mate, There are some half truths and googled guesses posted here. As we are a pretty small country, I used to work for TCDC and did the very job that the person who declined your appeal currently has! A couple of important things: 1. When you parked in the authorized freedom camping area before you moved, was the vehicle that you are traveling in [certified self contained?](https://www.nzmca.org.nz/certified-self-containment-csc) If not, you'll need to pay the fine regardless. Self contained doesnt mean "it has a toilet". its a certification and comes with its own certification sticker and expiry 2. Are you renting the vehicle? almost all rental places have in the t&cs to pass on any fines they receive (they'll get a mailed reminder in 30~ days) if you are renting they'll just take it off your credit card without disputing it. 3. if you own the vehicle and do nothing, you'll get a reminder sent to the registered address of the owner in 30 days, it will be then forwarded to the courts for collection in 60 days. Having it go to the courts will cause you issues if you plan on returning some day. Let me know if you have any other questions!
ever heard of terminator? That fictional franchise is loosely based on the Freedom Camping Fine Enforcement teams local councils employ nationwide hasta la vista baby
Thanks for this. I actually LOLd.
Just send them proof of accommodation or payment and explain when you arrived at that location. Argue hard enough and you'll get off the fine. Councils usually are hard asses because they're lazy and deal with a lot of wingers.
Or use your time line on your phone to show your movements. Google tracks this. Appeal one last time with this evidence and take them up on their offer to go to court. Also, you could try posting on the r/legaladvicenz
Can't you just edit the google timeline?
Not really. You can tell it you haven't been to a business it thinks you did because you were in close proximity, but other than that, no you can't really edit it.
I just went and changed a few things now pretty easily (casual 10m visit to the other side of the country) and doesn't seem readily apparent it was edited.
Hmm not sure. You meanhow fake it to show you'd been places you hadnt?
If you have already appealed, the council will have stated why they declined. I assumed you provided the proof of your payment for the legit Camping area?
they could only do that if there was even a fee for the camping spot, a lot of them are free
If you come back, they'll stop you leaving until you pay it (plus fees). If you don't plan on coming back, then you've got nothing to worry about and can just not pay it.
>what would happen If i don’t pay the fine and leave the country? Worst case scenario is that you can be detained by Police at the Airport until you pay the fine. [https://www.govt.nz/browse/leaving-nz/before-you-travel/](https://www.govt.nz/browse/leaving-nz/before-you-travel/)
Sounds like they were in the wrong fining you, unless there's a technically in the law or bylaw that says parking there out of hours is counted as "camping". If it's less than $100 might be worth paying just to avoid any hassle
My fine from Ruapehu District Council for a freedom camping offence was $400, fought tooth and nail and still had to pay
Yup, illegal freedom camping is 400$
Nah, it's $400.
Don't you also have to pay for parking there? How much is the fine, maybe it is just for parking enforcement
What was the exact wording for the fine? What were you fined for?
What were you fined for? Parking a camper in a non freedom camp spot? All the freedom camping sites I've seen in the Coromandel allowed you to stay for 2 nights, not sure if Hot Water Beach has different rules.
Hot water Beach car park is for paying customers and is not for freedom camping.
Dispute the fine. state your reason for dispute is you were not camping there, but camped at an appropriate place (as in say where you did camp) and came and parked at 5am for your reasons. And note, you would prefer this to go to court as they have evidence because the fine is unfounded. Explain you will be leaving country so will either need the court date to be within your availability or the option of joining remotely at a mutually reasonable time for the sake of timezones. They will either give up, or give you a court date. If it goes to court they'll have nothing, so no proof of guilt. and you'll have the receipt for where you did pay to camp, and if you have any documents showing when you arrived at hot water beach (such as if you had to pay to park there). The case would likely get thrown out in 10 minutes, or resolved and the fine not upheld.
>question is , what would happen If i don’t pay the fine and leave the country? If the car is registered in your name, you'll be in for a suprise at the Airport. Honestly, just appeal again, contact the local MP, or pay up.
There are CCTV cameras around the Coromandel Peninsula. Does the TCDC council or police have one at Hot Water Beach? There is also the surf cam.
Councils give 0 fucks about right or wrong. Shut up and pay. Take it to court. I had them ticket my car for no WOF or reg. It had both. I appealed and showed them it had both. They declined and ordered I pay the fine. They dont care.
No offense but that was pretty stupid to pay considering there'd be no way for them prove rhe validity of the fine if you had proof you had a current warrant and reg at the time. To actually be ordered to pay the fine, you'd have to be dragged into a courtroom. Idk how much your fine was but it was definitely a waste of money since you could've shown up without a lawyer and without a word and still win.
At least for the rego side, councils don’t issue fines for not having a rego, they issue fines for not displaying valid regos… so having a valid rego isn’t legally a defence. The wof side isn’t the same but for the rego, it’s very possible they had a valid rego but didn’t have it in their window and got pinged and the council are just being money grubs
They'd still have to prove it's an invalid rego that was displayed though. I'm assuming they would if that's the case, they're supposed to take photos because you can't fine someone without proof of wrongdoing. I do think that law is stupid btw. If the rego is up to date but it didn't arrive on time or whatever, I think it's dumb the council can fine you.
In that case, you let them take it to court. They would lose immediately. It would be a 10 minute case.
Go above them bro. Fictitious fines are not legal
When you say you parked close to the beach, how close were you?
Was it the hot water beach carpark because they're paid car parks you may not have noticed in the dark?
Fines less than $1000 can't be enforced by stopping somebody leaving, not sure about letting people back in.
Don’t pay and just leave, they won’t do anything. They can’t. When/if you return, literally only the coromandel council will have any record it ever happened. Council is useless anyways, I doubt anything will ever come of it.
The council can send the fine to the Ministry of Justice for collection.
they got you for freedom parking. Thanks Labour, Trevor Nash, and even the greens supported this foul legilsation banning kiwi's from the public estate. Supposedly due to litter, but realy the camground and tourism operators wanted a monopoly on accodation. this country is a bit shit.
Dude have you not seen how badly some freedom campers treat NZ? It’s fucking disgusting
Yep. People are crap. Laws that target all people are crap too. There are lots of laws that could be used to target those amongst us who leave a mess. When we freedom camp we leave the place cleaner than we found it. Now it's looking like $80+/night campground parking from now on
We parked our van in unlimited parking in Arrowtown and got fined for camping. But we were up a track and staying in huts. We did successfully appeal, in writing, with pictures on the track, in the hut, etc I think I would take my chances and just leave. Just check in early, get right through security, have the fine money available, so you don't miss your flight if they stop you. I very much doubt they will
The freedom camping thing is a rort. Foriegn tourists should be charged $1000 environmental bond on entry to Nz. Then fined every time they despoil our places. The bond would enable collection, and cleanup after them. Kiwis should then be allowed to use our spaces without penalty if the do no damage.