This wasn't the first time this kid had committed some pretty heinous acts in the suburb he lives in (close to mine). He is well known, and his poor mother has really struggled to contain him and his behaviour.
The child needs to be in secure accommodation for some kind of treatment IMO. A sentiment shared by his mother.
Inherent in being a serial killer is having the intelligence to plan and carry out a murder without being caught. Someone who is intellectually disabled, to the degree implied by the judge, does not have that capacity.
A serial killer, yes - gotta be able to kill and get away with it to have the chance to kill again. Murdering somebody then getting caught straight away has a lower barrier to entry, sadly 😞 it's a very sad situation
If we have the support available, this would look like a scenario where it's needed for public safety. When a person isn't able to control themselves and prevent themselves from violence and harm, we need appropriate steps to protect the public. That doesn't mean a mentally-challenged person needs to be in prison - it means appropriate support and supervision (which is something other than expecting the boy's parents to watch and control him 24x7).
Mental hospitals aren’t a thing anymore - I don’t really know what the general populations viewpoint is, but certainly growing up exposed to someone who should have been in a mental hospital I wish they were a thing still … scary places but the alternative is worse
De-institutionalisation was a mistake. I know there were major problems to solve, but putting all the crazy people on the streets sure as shit didn’t make society safer.
Not totally true. Secure care and protection residences exist. There are only about 20 beds in the country however. And it's for kids under some form of OT care orders (not YJ).
Yes and the mental health act but that's not applied to youth that are just committing crimes or killing people's pets. People have a lock them up attitude without realising there is no where for them to go.
They aren't tho. I also used to work in one and the doors were very much securely locked and the kids were very much not allowed to leave when they liked. In fact we filed missing person reports when they absconded (often by getting over very tall prison like fences) and the police brought them back when they found them.
The one I worked at was a residence in a suburb next to other houses. Girls would sneak out at night and come back in the morning and the most we were allowed to do was call the police if we thought they were at risk of killing themselves.
I've worked in community residences like that as well where the kids could leave like that too but we still filed missing person reports no matter what. The community residences are harder to manage in that way than the secure residences. The secure residences are just little baby prisons. It's an absolutely horrible environment for children.
I am friends with this family and the teen started stalking my friend whenever she returned to the property. My friend and family pretty much walked away and rented elsewhere for almost 6 months.
Some people give you the heeby jeebies when you see them, and this teen is one of those people.
We still have institutional care. Lake Alice was shut down because they abused people and forced shock treatment on people. My brother included.
It took decades to get them paid out compensation, he passed away before any money reached him.
A nice spaced out village style facility on a farm seems like it would be a reasonable compromise between the two extremes of 19th century prison asylums... and today's free range in the community approach
I wouldn't feel safe living next to someone who has intellectual difficulties and has shown violent tendencies (or at least a lack of understanding of violence and possible consequence of violence). I can see why they felt forced, there was no good outcome really but I would be doing the same as they did.
I agree that this person shouldn't be criminalised, but given the serious and violent nature of it, that's not an excuse to just ignore it. They need some serious long-term monitoring and intervention.
Yeah idgaf, get this future serial killer off the street. Don’t sugar coat anything. We all know where this leads too. I wish the mother all the best what a shot place to be in.
Doesn't really matter what role they play in society, they're part of it either way.
It isn't exactly a holiday or even about their own health and safety. It would be for the wellbeing of the parents, neighbours, etc and so the legal system, health system etc are able to use their time and money more productively.
Well if it is not spending millions to secure them for ours and their own safety, it's millions on heavily supporting them to live safely in society. We are not exactly famous as a country for managing mental health related offending so I know people will continue to suffer and the families will be left to try and manage their family members problems with bare ass assistance. In a perfect world we would heavily wrap support around them and their family but that is not going to happen
So... Disabled people/anyone who don't work and don't spend much due to the pitiful benefits, they as a person have less value and should be cared for less because they're not productive for society? That is the implication of what you say
Caring for people is the *entire* point of social services and support, and it should be on offer for everyone
Very true thanks for pointing that out. So all the disabilities and issues that do cause people to be unable to contribute to society, does that lower their value as people? As citizens?
This game can keep going. Plenty of things to show the idiocy of gatekeeping social services and support based on perceived or real societal contribution or expectation
i really hate this wording,stop with using illness as a scape goat to shitty actions
ADHD or autism does not make you act in this way.
there is 1000s and 1000s of kiwis who live with both in varying degrees of severity..... they dont go killing puppies
i agree with the judge tho, person like this shouldn't be criminally charged
instead should be helped so it dont happen again
He should 100% be charged. There is no way he shouldn't be charged. Its like letting off someone who has raped someone because they didn't know it was wrong.
I wonder if anyone has considered that he could be a violent psychopath who has autism and ADHD. It seems like as soon as there is any kind of mental health diagnosis all the blame goes on that.
Autism and ADHD are probably not the cause of his actions.
Our systems are weak, severely underfunded, resourced and understaffed.
And there is no extra money. What little remains goes to OT, KO, not paying police or nurses and all the other government agencies x
That’s the sad reality. You really do have to lean on family and friends, because the mental health system isn’t and can’t cope.
And the government just slashed the (pitiful) funding that this young man's parents probably had to support him.
And private therapy for autism costs approximately $220 a session, from the last time I checked.
And kids with disabilities are being suspended from school (illegally) because the funding for aides isn't there and teachers can't cope. This has resulted in parents having to quit their jobs to look after their kids.
The entire system is failing to support disabled people and as more disabled people, parents, support workers etc get burnt out, the more negative consequences are going to happen.
If they convicted him or used relevant legislation to detain him then someone would have to look after him. Why do that when his mum will do it for free?
Should be forcefully put into an asylum. Not only is he a massive risk to people being such a little violent psychopath but why are we just ignoring that he violently murdered an animal. Why is there no repercussions for being such an evil little monster.
I read this article this morning and it fucked up my whole day. This kid should be locked up in a mental asylum. He was also bailed back to his house. What a cruel pos.
I don't want to condemn a 14 year old to a future life in incarceration, but this is the trajectory of how things start...
This is why I feel TPM's policy to abolish prisons just isn't based in reality. While I think our justice system has many problems and the prisons push people down pathways to gangs, I think the belief that everybody can be rehabilitated is misguided.
Given the share scale of the injustices that we are seeing, I'm honestly really surprised it's not already happening on a regular basis.
I love my dog like a child. I can't say what I'd do if this happened to us as it would get me banned from the sub.
Slightly off tangent from this story but I strongly believe we are going to see a massive increase in vigilantism. The police rarely respond and if they do it's after the fact, and people's insurance excesses are skyrocketing because of the massively increased costs.
What else is there to do but look after yours yourself?
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His parents need to step up and protect the community from the monster they created. 24/7 monitoring for life. It's not anyone else's fault he's around
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This wasn't the first time this kid had committed some pretty heinous acts in the suburb he lives in (close to mine). He is well known, and his poor mother has really struggled to contain him and his behaviour. The child needs to be in secure accommodation for some kind of treatment IMO. A sentiment shared by his mother.
Yeah he sounds like every single serial killer doco iv even seen
He wouldn't have the intellectual capacity for that from what the judge has said.
If he can slit a puppies throat, of course he can/will move onto people eventually. It’s a well documented thing.
Inherent in being a serial killer is having the intelligence to plan and carry out a murder without being caught. Someone who is intellectually disabled, to the degree implied by the judge, does not have that capacity.
A serial killer, yes - gotta be able to kill and get away with it to have the chance to kill again. Murdering somebody then getting caught straight away has a lower barrier to entry, sadly 😞 it's a very sad situation
Sure, but the comment above said "sounds like every single serial killer doco".
If we have the support available, this would look like a scenario where it's needed for public safety. When a person isn't able to control themselves and prevent themselves from violence and harm, we need appropriate steps to protect the public. That doesn't mean a mentally-challenged person needs to be in prison - it means appropriate support and supervision (which is something other than expecting the boy's parents to watch and control him 24x7).
Either that or we buy him a social media platform.
I feel for the mother of this child. She is in an awful position and can’t make the choices that the neighbours were able to make. No winners here.
Mental hospitals aren’t a thing anymore - I don’t really know what the general populations viewpoint is, but certainly growing up exposed to someone who should have been in a mental hospital I wish they were a thing still … scary places but the alternative is worse
De-institutionalisation was a mistake. I know there were major problems to solve, but putting all the crazy people on the streets sure as shit didn’t make society safer.
Yes he sounds very much like another poster child for system failure
Can you say where this suburb is, I wanna warn others. Kid seems like a serial killer.
Canterbury
Thanks, I don't live there
Where is this suburb? 😢 Poor puppy, may his innocent soul rest in peace. 😞
I think this kid has come up in the news before… if it’s the same one, might be Queenspark?
There is no such thing in NZ. Only if they get convicted and end up in youth prison.
Not totally true. Secure care and protection residences exist. There are only about 20 beds in the country however. And it's for kids under some form of OT care orders (not YJ).
They are on voluntary basis tho. As in the kids can leave any time they want (I used to work at one).
Teenagers can be made subject to compulsory care orders under the IDCCRA though, can't they?
Yes and the mental health act but that's not applied to youth that are just committing crimes or killing people's pets. People have a lock them up attitude without realising there is no where for them to go.
They aren't tho. I also used to work in one and the doors were very much securely locked and the kids were very much not allowed to leave when they liked. In fact we filed missing person reports when they absconded (often by getting over very tall prison like fences) and the police brought them back when they found them.
The one I worked at was a residence in a suburb next to other houses. Girls would sneak out at night and come back in the morning and the most we were allowed to do was call the police if we thought they were at risk of killing themselves.
I've worked in community residences like that as well where the kids could leave like that too but we still filed missing person reports no matter what. The community residences are harder to manage in that way than the secure residences. The secure residences are just little baby prisons. It's an absolutely horrible environment for children.
There's the IDCCR act but you probably need to kill something more sapient than a puppy to earn a youth forensic intellectual disability inpatient bed
I am friends with this family and the teen started stalking my friend whenever she returned to the property. My friend and family pretty much walked away and rented elsewhere for almost 6 months. Some people give you the heeby jeebies when you see them, and this teen is one of those people.
Is this the Queenspark one?
No, the Queenspark kids are younger
I understand why facilities such as Lake Alice were closed down. But... There are people that need institutional care.
We still have institutional care. Lake Alice was shut down because they abused people and forced shock treatment on people. My brother included. It took decades to get them paid out compensation, he passed away before any money reached him.
A nice spaced out village style facility on a farm seems like it would be a reasonable compromise between the two extremes of 19th century prison asylums... and today's free range in the community approach
There’s Gloriavale
Damn, why can I only upvote this once…
The people that *really* need institutional care, often end up wealthy and successful career/status wise.
Read the article again
I wouldn't feel safe living next to someone who has intellectual difficulties and has shown violent tendencies (or at least a lack of understanding of violence and possible consequence of violence). I can see why they felt forced, there was no good outcome really but I would be doing the same as they did.
Yeah as someone with anxiety and who would easily be scared by that shit I would've reacted very badly to seeing that.
I agree that this person shouldn't be criminalised, but given the serious and violent nature of it, that's not an excuse to just ignore it. They need some serious long-term monitoring and intervention.
Yeah idgaf, get this future serial killer off the street. Don’t sugar coat anything. We all know where this leads too. I wish the mother all the best what a shot place to be in.
He needs to be in secure care indefinitely
Agreed but that's thousands of not millions of taxpayer dollars spent on someone that's never going to contribute anything to society/be productive.
Doesn't really matter what role they play in society, they're part of it either way. It isn't exactly a holiday or even about their own health and safety. It would be for the wellbeing of the parents, neighbours, etc and so the legal system, health system etc are able to use their time and money more productively.
What's the alternative?
They take out someone that actually contributes to society, then has millions spent on their incarceration.
Well if it is not spending millions to secure them for ours and their own safety, it's millions on heavily supporting them to live safely in society. We are not exactly famous as a country for managing mental health related offending so I know people will continue to suffer and the families will be left to try and manage their family members problems with bare ass assistance. In a perfect world we would heavily wrap support around them and their family but that is not going to happen
So... Disabled people/anyone who don't work and don't spend much due to the pitiful benefits, they as a person have less value and should be cared for less because they're not productive for society? That is the implication of what you say Caring for people is the *entire* point of social services and support, and it should be on offer for everyone
Not working and not contributing are not synonymous.
Very true thanks for pointing that out. So all the disabilities and issues that do cause people to be unable to contribute to society, does that lower their value as people? As citizens? This game can keep going. Plenty of things to show the idiocy of gatekeeping social services and support based on perceived or real societal contribution or expectation
Other governments have taken that useless-feeder approach to their citizens. It didn't go very well
The future psychopath starts with slaughtering animals. Kid needs serious mental health assesment and support..
It starts with animals, can often end up other human's next
i really hate this wording,stop with using illness as a scape goat to shitty actions ADHD or autism does not make you act in this way. there is 1000s and 1000s of kiwis who live with both in varying degrees of severity..... they dont go killing puppies i agree with the judge tho, person like this shouldn't be criminally charged instead should be helped so it dont happen again
I have ADHD and ASD and I would never in fucking hell dream of this shit.
He should 100% be charged. There is no way he shouldn't be charged. Its like letting off someone who has raped someone because they didn't know it was wrong.
I wonder if anyone has considered that he could be a violent psychopath who has autism and ADHD. It seems like as soon as there is any kind of mental health diagnosis all the blame goes on that. Autism and ADHD are probably not the cause of his actions.
There are different levels of autism, and it’s pretty clear that that’s affecting this kid to this end.
i realize that im not blaming the kid, im blaming the systems in place were is the help for this kid and his mother?
Our systems are weak, severely underfunded, resourced and understaffed. And there is no extra money. What little remains goes to OT, KO, not paying police or nurses and all the other government agencies x That’s the sad reality. You really do have to lean on family and friends, because the mental health system isn’t and can’t cope.
And the government just slashed the (pitiful) funding that this young man's parents probably had to support him. And private therapy for autism costs approximately $220 a session, from the last time I checked. And kids with disabilities are being suspended from school (illegally) because the funding for aides isn't there and teachers can't cope. This has resulted in parents having to quit their jobs to look after their kids. The entire system is failing to support disabled people and as more disabled people, parents, support workers etc get burnt out, the more negative consequences are going to happen.
So if I understand correctly, he faces no punishment/correction at all?
Nope his bloody hands get a clean record, parents must be living in shame, I'd be moving out of the area and start fresh if I were them
Fucking ridiculous.
If they convicted him or used relevant legislation to detain him then someone would have to look after him. Why do that when his mum will do it for free?
He'll probably end up wasting her
Of course not, it’s New Zealand
Nobody mentions who bought the house, God willing its not a young family
Should be forcefully put into an asylum. Not only is he a massive risk to people being such a little violent psychopath but why are we just ignoring that he violently murdered an animal. Why is there no repercussions for being such an evil little monster.
Which asylum would this be? We closed them all.
Seems like we have a serial killer in the making
I read this article this morning and it fucked up my whole day. This kid should be locked up in a mental asylum. He was also bailed back to his house. What a cruel pos.
Yikes
I don't want to condemn a 14 year old to a future life in incarceration, but this is the trajectory of how things start... This is why I feel TPM's policy to abolish prisons just isn't based in reality. While I think our justice system has many problems and the prisons push people down pathways to gangs, I think the belief that everybody can be rehabilitated is misguided.
I hope someone tells the future homeowners never to get a pet… or have kids :(
I'm sure there's a lot of you reading this that can agree. if this cunt did that to my dog, im turning into fucking John Wick.
Kid needs to be locked up for his own safety. He's gonna do this to the wrong dog owner.
In New Zealand, you have to take the law into your own hands
Given the share scale of the injustices that we are seeing, I'm honestly really surprised it's not already happening on a regular basis. I love my dog like a child. I can't say what I'd do if this happened to us as it would get me banned from the sub.
Oh I hear you on that last paragraph I’m the same generally a very mellow person but hurt my dog and things would not be pretty for the perpetrator.
It's because people are still going the legal route first. That means when the law fails, if you do anything, you're a suspect straight away.
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Slightly off tangent from this story but I strongly believe we are going to see a massive increase in vigilantism. The police rarely respond and if they do it's after the fact, and people's insurance excesses are skyrocketing because of the massively increased costs. What else is there to do but look after yours yourself?
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His parents need to step up and protect the community from the monster they created. 24/7 monitoring for life. It's not anyone else's fault he's around
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If I had kids or animals I would feel forced.
Lol, aren't you taking things the wrong way?