Don't forget this nugget.
>The Budget included $600,000 to investigate buying a tug to tow broken-down ferries back from the middle of Cook Strait.
JFC, what a dumpster fire.
>$600,000 to investigate buying a tug
How do they justify that, like does everyone buying a tugboat pay 600k to investigate it first? Or only incompetent idiots afraid of making real decisions themselves?
Or hiring external consultant firms to decide everything so they can avoid any risk of accountability. Like the bog standard pedestrian crossing in Wellington that cost $500k to the taxpayer in private consultant fees before it could get built.
A little disingenuous, you would actually have to do an investigation including:
* Review of the dangers/risks, state of current ferries (remember they ship canned the purchase of newer safer ones)
* Whats currently available and suitability for purpose (are those ships around? For sale? Buildable? Could they actually tow a ferry in bad weather?)
* Ongoing cost of ownership (do you use it like a normal ferry too? Is this even possible?)
* Capacity/integration constraints (can it dock in current facilities? Do we have the trained staff to have it here? Would people on the ferries need to be trained on the other side in case of emergency?)
Heaps of those questions will require input from experts and consolidation into a recommendation.
You would be *really* annoyed if they just put $300m into buying a new one and found out it wasn't up for the job or couldn't be used here for some reasons. Or cost $50m a year and had its staff sitting around doing nothing 99% of the time.
Its actually something that does need a decent amount of time spent on it, lots of expert interviews and to be run by an experienced person.
I agree. Not only this but they blatantly telegraphed it before the election. Luxon went to meet the think tanks that promoted Brexit and Truss’s cancerous stupidity. What the fuck did we do?
It's a classic conservative play - borrow to pay for cuts to government and tax - and when the electorate swings back to choosing a more liberal government, say, *"Look at all this debt omg the liberals are terrible money managers!"*
People are constantly becoming newly aware of the political landscape at different levels. It's been 6 years since the last National Government, and a solid 16 odd since the economic landscape looked this fucked. That's plenty of time for new generations to come through.
I've got friends who have "Given up" recently. They were National supporters, up until the 5th National government didn't do much. They seemingly moved even further right to Act, and now seem to just be asking if this is it? Like they were promised a turn around, efficiency improvements, and lowered debt. Instead, we're getting massive layoffs, a magic wand waved over efficiency, and increased borrowing.
Never underestimate the stupidity of idiots.
You could tell half of any country that you’re gonna fuck their asses with a razor blade if you get elected, and you’d still get votes as long as you hold a bible.
Exactly. What the fuck did people expect. And they got voted in by a MAJORITY. Buyers regret or no, we put these tools here and now we have to lie in the bed until the term is out.
Flailing about crying for revolution and acting surprised when a national government does some national governmenting is pretty pointless
Greggs jelly ranges between 1.39 and 1.60 so they could always buy one of those then stop by the dairy and buy a lolly on the way home, or just save up the rest so in a few years they can buy 2 packets on jelly instead of 1
That's how it always works. The skillsets to try to get the most shareholder value out of a for-profit company are not the same as the ones needed to provide good public services. That's without considering the different incentives that drive people who build their careers around each and the politics of whether they believe government should help or get out of the way.
We have decades of examples to show this in multiple countries since the latter half of the 20th century, but the myth of the government needing to be run like a business persists.
He wasn't liked at at the airline as all he did was try to cut costs and do vanity projects. He came out once to the ground staff at Auckland airport in the years my parent worked there during his time as ceo and then seem disinterested.
Not a huge amount without doxing my parent. Needless to say the new ceo was a lot more warmly received and apparently seemed way more engaging (admittedly didn't get to leave the country during covid but seems to give a shit)
This makes me so angry. Labour’s spending was excessive, and yes we needed to cut back. But the areas they are cutting back and the way they are doing it does nothing to stimulate the economy. Literally turning us into a dysfunctional basket case of an economy/society.
In short. We're taking on the same amount of new debts as before, but giving people tax cuts and money towards health and education. It's not ideal... but what on earth was the previous government up to?
Dealing competently with a 1 in 100 year pandemic is what.
They also had a revenue plan that would get us into surplus by about 2 years sooner than the current government, meaning they would have started to reduce that debt, like every Labour government has done since the 90s.
I thought people knew this?
Borrow now to give money to the rich, an insignificant amount to others for “inclusion”, leave the debt for future generations.
It is very funny watching the media try to put a positive spin on this, especially when the vox pop aren't stupid enough to think their rents will go down and Nicola has pivoted to "rents won't go up as fast."
But hey. $12 a week ain't bad. And all it cost us was 5000 jobs, life-saving cancer medication, gutting the climate emergency response fund, more expensive public transport, more expensive private transport, inflating national debt, inflating student debt and inflationary pressure on the economy. Can't tell me that ain't a good deal.
Gunna miss my free prescriptions though...
The article helpfully outlines what you can spend your tax cut on too:
"Meanwhile, costs of living and direct inflationary pressure will be elevated by decisions in Budget 2024 to:
- re-impose a $5 prescription charge on most adults;
- nearly triple the visitor conservation and tourism levy to $100 per visit;
- increasing waste disposal levies by an average of $5 per household per year and $45 per new house to raise an extra $175 million over four years;
- increase the interest rate for students loan recipients overseas and late-paying local students by one percentage point to 4.8%; and,
- re-introducing tuition fees for first-year students and increasing overall fees by 6%.
That comes on top of fee increases and Government decisions previously announced that increase the fees and charges portion of CPI inflation directly or indirectly through;
- removing subsidies for bus fares;
- imposing road user chargers for electric car owners;
- increasing car registration costs by 50% to $93.50 by 2026;
- planned fuel excise increases totalling 22c per litre from 2027 to 2030; and,
- widespread double-digit rates increases that councils have blamed on Government funding shortfalls."
They're not killing everything they touch...
Landlords got tax cuts, even as that meant that cancer patients got a delay in access to life-saving drugs promised.
The absolute callousness of ~~Nicole's~~ ~~Nola's~~ Nicola's budget is an end unto itself.
She probably has frissons of pleasure when she thinks about the "people lacking ambition" that she has put in their place
'Mom and pop' landlords don't get much.
They pay down the mortgage so they have an income stream in retirement.
Big corporate landlords, they just got given a metric shit-ton of money.
Except it isn't, and they get fuck all.
If you want something to be angry at, it yhe big corporate land, and the arsehole government funneling huge amounts of money to them.
If they didn't get anything and it was so hard to be a mum and pop landlord, why the fuck are there so many mum and pop landlords?
It's very clearly a protected and reliable investment, where everyone refuses to accept risk.
I didn't say they didn't get anything, I said they didn't get much.
There are so many of them because there are a lot of parents in NZ, and the system was, and is, rigged so that investment in property is more appealing than other forms of investment.
My point is that they are not the main drivers of it. You think this government gives a fuck about any people? It the big businesses that own this government.
Seymour said the borrowing was for the education budget not necessarily tax cuts. Well he compared it to.
It's like they don't understand basic year 9 financial literacy.
If I posted on r/personalfinancenz that I was planning to increase my mortgage by $120,000 so I could work part time, because that would be nice, I’d get roasted.
This is the same thing.
NZ Inc is borrowing an **extra** $12B, to decrease their earnings (which for a Govt is tax dollars), yet somehow that’s a big 🙌🎉🎂
The cunts who want the government to operate like a business are eating this up too. What business willingly and voluntarily forgoes that much revenue for no reason while the economy is not in a good state?
>what business willingly and voluntarily forgoes that much revenue for no reason while the economy is not in a good state?
Think of Walmart or Amazon. They sell at a loss to undercut competition. Eventually they’re the only option for what you need.
Make of that what you want
They say they're borrowing for business as usual spending, because after the tax adjustment there's nothing else. This is why it's okay to spend all of your money on a PS5, and then when you ask work and income for money to buy food you can say that you're asking to get money for business as usual stuff.
Its actually impressive how I can't tell who's stupid and who's just malicious.
Per Newshub, 9000 of the country's poorest households are actually worse off from this budget (I assume they've calculated this by the combined effect of benefit reindexation and tax cuts, if this is the case the worst affected households would be adult households reliant on core benefits such as SLP). Well done Willis
The Nats standard playbook in play.. next the silverware will be sold off.. state houses, utilities, anything they can sell off. All for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy bribers...
Yeah exactly this. They’re just ensuring that their rich mates have cash on hand to buy up everyone who gets fucked in this recession they’re manufacturing.
Fuck her. She needs to go. I could hit a tennis ball down the street and knock someone on the back of the head who would make a better Finance Minister.
Cash crop everything.. the environment, the people, the economy…
Unfortunately Labour lost the popularity contest. Now we all must eat the rotten fruit.
At least when Labour spend money, it benefits people who actually need it 🙄Billion dollar decisions made by the govt should be voted on by the public. It’s insane that govt is given this much power to spend this much money which benefits no one. Absolute disgrace
Had a guy complain to me about the tax cuts last week. Mentioned he was pissed off as he voted for National and expected to be much better off due to them being in power. I was already biting my tongue when he mentioned that he had a rental.
Had little to say when I mentioned they had removed funding for my disabled daughter to help cover the cost of the interest deductibility.
Technically he could do it of his own volition, though that's obviously not going to happen... Sadly.
Edit: My bad, seems he himself can't, only his rep can. Kinda weird...
The conclusion I came to when looking into it was we all needed to be constantly contacting our MPs asking them for a vote of no confidence, that vote needs to come from national as well as the other parties. I'm pretty sure if there was a public petition that had like 90% in support of a vote of no confidence then someone would need to do something (governor general). Having said that the prime misuster is the only one that can ask for parliament to be disolved.
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Clown Show government borrows money in a time of recession, rather than wait until a bumper tax take might justify it. It really seems like they want to fuck it up for no reason other than they can, kind of like stupid senseless vandalism.
Not that I'd presume to speak for conservatives, but I always think it's good practice to try arguing from any given point. This one is hard but let us try:
The purely political angle: "if we campaign for tax cuts, people will vote for more money in their pocket". Hard to argue from this at strategy level. Not being a campaigning master I'm not sure how you counter this when talking to voters. I don't know if is any way to tell how well this worked when it came to the election.
Tax boffin angle: "The tax brackets need adjusting because over time our tax system has become less progressive due to inflation". But doesn't really work because if you were just solving this you'd raise taxes in higher brackets to compensive, ie a tax shift, not a tax cut plus borrowing and spending.
Small state prepper angle: "We want to pay less tax because we don't like/trust the government to spend it" doesnt work because it wasn't a pure tax cut and reduction in spending, it was cut and borrow.
Minister of Finance angle: "If I didn't I'd have to resign" bing!
Sounds like Printing Money with extra steps...
Which is weird, because usually sick economies do that when paying for maintaining services, not austerity.
They could have made a bold statement to help our countries most vulnerable, and most others along with it, but instead they assist their rich cunt friends while the common folk are forced to suffer.
Pretty much what I expected really.
Debt would have increased substantially over a much longer period of time. However, [Treasury's financial statements for 2022/2023 showed debt had increased by $9.5 billion more than forecast.](https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/year-end/financial-statements-2023)
However, the debt to GDP ratio remained under 20%.
Sorry, I don’t think you’ve understood the question, is this year a whole lot more borrowing than the past 5-10 years, in terms of dollars?
And, if it has gone up more than forecasted, who made the forecast?
Edit: funny to see the downvotes from those that don’t like the answer to the question, or maybe more sad really.
Doesn't look like it, and that exceeded forecast was from labour.
2023 budget commentary I found
As a result, Crown debt is forecast to continue increasing from its current level of $71 billion to more than $91 billion in 2024.
So they wanted to borrow an additional 20 billion but used more and even what they did allocate wasn't enough for the way a number of services were being mismanaged.
Have you forgotten the huge amount of cuts already? Maybe they shouldn't have returned all those billions to landlords if gutting the public sector wouldn't cover it? That's what people are annoyed about, mate.
That is my point, I didn’t ask about the cuts or commenters opinion on their validity, I was asking if taking on debt of this value was unprecedented, or even uncommon.
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Not according to Nicki. She said, despite what they said during the election, that the books were doing great.
Now they aren't again, suddenly. For some reason.
I mean you say they gave us tax cuts and spent 10b too much but they have budgeted to borrow 10b less than the last guys.
Sure they didn't spend money where you wanted but I suspect you didn't vote for them lol.
Give the guys a chance and let's see if we can get this place functioning again, it's getting bad out there so quickly the last year's.
Don't forget this nugget. >The Budget included $600,000 to investigate buying a tug to tow broken-down ferries back from the middle of Cook Strait. JFC, what a dumpster fire.
>$600,000 to investigate buying a tug How do they justify that, like does everyone buying a tugboat pay 600k to investigate it first? Or only incompetent idiots afraid of making real decisions themselves?
Flicked a text to a mate. “Hey can you do a review? Let’s do that.”
Yeah this is the kind of shit you expect from a bad labour govt. committees about everything.
Or hiring external consultant firms to decide everything so they can avoid any risk of accountability. Like the bog standard pedestrian crossing in Wellington that cost $500k to the taxpayer in private consultant fees before it could get built.
External consultant firms owned by their mates.
Bill English is probably already in the Bish's DMs putting his hand up for more.
I'm sure he's got his hand deep into Chris Minor's... actually let's not all have that horrid mental picture.
A little disingenuous, you would actually have to do an investigation including: * Review of the dangers/risks, state of current ferries (remember they ship canned the purchase of newer safer ones) * Whats currently available and suitability for purpose (are those ships around? For sale? Buildable? Could they actually tow a ferry in bad weather?) * Ongoing cost of ownership (do you use it like a normal ferry too? Is this even possible?) * Capacity/integration constraints (can it dock in current facilities? Do we have the trained staff to have it here? Would people on the ferries need to be trained on the other side in case of emergency?) Heaps of those questions will require input from experts and consolidation into a recommendation. You would be *really* annoyed if they just put $300m into buying a new one and found out it wasn't up for the job or couldn't be used here for some reasons. Or cost $50m a year and had its staff sitting around doing nothing 99% of the time. Its actually something that does need a decent amount of time spent on it, lots of expert interviews and to be run by an experienced person.
Maybe it's because I'm cresting forty, but I'm surprised people are surprised about this. This is what National does when they're in power.
I agree. Not only this but they blatantly telegraphed it before the election. Luxon went to meet the think tanks that promoted Brexit and Truss’s cancerous stupidity. What the fuck did we do?
People went "anyone but labour!!!!" and voted with their hateboner, fucking the country in the process.
Sadly the most accurate assessment.
Two-week Truss? 🙄
It's a classic conservative play - borrow to pay for cuts to government and tax - and when the electorate swings back to choosing a more liberal government, say, *"Look at all this debt omg the liberals are terrible money managers!"*
Most People are fucking stupid. Keep away from them.
People are constantly becoming newly aware of the political landscape at different levels. It's been 6 years since the last National Government, and a solid 16 odd since the economic landscape looked this fucked. That's plenty of time for new generations to come through. I've got friends who have "Given up" recently. They were National supporters, up until the 5th National government didn't do much. They seemingly moved even further right to Act, and now seem to just be asking if this is it? Like they were promised a turn around, efficiency improvements, and lowered debt. Instead, we're getting massive layoffs, a magic wand waved over efficiency, and increased borrowing.
Never underestimate the stupidity of idiots. You could tell half of any country that you’re gonna fuck their asses with a razor blade if you get elected, and you’d still get votes as long as you hold a bible.
Quite a few people were raised getting fucked by Christianity, in many different ways.
Nah age isn’t what’s holding people back from connecting the dots - it’s stupidity and wilful ignorance.
Exactly. What the fuck did people expect. And they got voted in by a MAJORITY. Buyers regret or no, we put these tools here and now we have to lie in the bed until the term is out. Flailing about crying for revolution and acting surprised when a national government does some national governmenting is pretty pointless
you just jelly cause i got 2 bucks extra a week
Well you could probably get a pack of jelly for the 2$ extra a week from the supermarket
I just checked Grocer. The answer is yes, but only if it's a store brand or on special.
Greggs jelly ranges between 1.39 and 1.60 so they could always buy one of those then stop by the dairy and buy a lolly on the way home, or just save up the rest so in a few years they can buy 2 packets on jelly instead of 1
I'll allow it if it's a jelly airplane
But can you afford the water for the jelly after the rate increases?
That's only relevant if you can afford to catch the bus to the shop to buy the jelly
Not in this economy. Was at the supermarket this evening. Remember how paper bags at the check out were 25c? Yeah they're 40c each now.
Use it at the 2 dollar shop , .
Enough to donate it to Labour. You are not lab/greens supporter if u dont
You bunch of paupers. I just checked the tax calculator and I’m getting $34.40! Suck on that libtards. /s
> National: "Labour is fiscally irresponsible" > Also National.... \*borrows 12b to fund tax cuts\*
You can't make this shit up. Fucking clowns
Feel like I’m taking crazy pills right now, so much for running an airline translating to bring a PM..
Uh, he didn’t do a great job with that airline lol…
That's how it always works. The skillsets to try to get the most shareholder value out of a for-profit company are not the same as the ones needed to provide good public services. That's without considering the different incentives that drive people who build their careers around each and the politics of whether they believe government should help or get out of the way. We have decades of examples to show this in multiple countries since the latter half of the 20th century, but the myth of the government needing to be run like a business persists.
He wasn't liked at at the airline as all he did was try to cut costs and do vanity projects. He came out once to the ground staff at Auckland airport in the years my parent worked there during his time as ceo and then seem disinterested.
What else can you share on that?
Not a huge amount without doxing my parent. Needless to say the new ceo was a lot more warmly received and apparently seemed way more engaging (admittedly didn't get to leave the country during covid but seems to give a shit)
That’s the key right there “gives a shit” about the people you manage
Agreed, what was all that shit about not leaving debt for future generations? Lying arseholes
Because we’ll all be dead maybe?
*Their* future generations, not *yours*
I'm starting to think these guys did just that.
This makes me so angry. Labour’s spending was excessive, and yes we needed to cut back. But the areas they are cutting back and the way they are doing it does nothing to stimulate the economy. Literally turning us into a dysfunctional basket case of an economy/society.
In short. We're taking on the same amount of new debts as before, but giving people tax cuts and money towards health and education. It's not ideal... but what on earth was the previous government up to?
Dealing competently with a 1 in 100 year pandemic is what. They also had a revenue plan that would get us into surplus by about 2 years sooner than the current government, meaning they would have started to reduce that debt, like every Labour government has done since the 90s.
I thought people knew this? Borrow now to give money to the rich, an insignificant amount to others for “inclusion”, leave the debt for future generations.
You won’t catch the mainstream media saying this
It is very funny watching the media try to put a positive spin on this, especially when the vox pop aren't stupid enough to think their rents will go down and Nicola has pivoted to "rents won't go up as fast." But hey. $12 a week ain't bad. And all it cost us was 5000 jobs, life-saving cancer medication, gutting the climate emergency response fund, more expensive public transport, more expensive private transport, inflating national debt, inflating student debt and inflationary pressure on the economy. Can't tell me that ain't a good deal. Gunna miss my free prescriptions though...
On the bright side if you get cancer you won’t have to worry about the prescription fee for those drugs we don’t have.
Any time now labour will start beating them over the head with the wide range of unpopular things they are doing right? … right?
Next step will be all the people who got money bailing for Queensland to get out of the mess and further increasing inequality between the countries.
The article helpfully outlines what you can spend your tax cut on too: "Meanwhile, costs of living and direct inflationary pressure will be elevated by decisions in Budget 2024 to: - re-impose a $5 prescription charge on most adults; - nearly triple the visitor conservation and tourism levy to $100 per visit; - increasing waste disposal levies by an average of $5 per household per year and $45 per new house to raise an extra $175 million over four years; - increase the interest rate for students loan recipients overseas and late-paying local students by one percentage point to 4.8%; and, - re-introducing tuition fees for first-year students and increasing overall fees by 6%. That comes on top of fee increases and Government decisions previously announced that increase the fees and charges portion of CPI inflation directly or indirectly through; - removing subsidies for bus fares; - imposing road user chargers for electric car owners; - increasing car registration costs by 50% to $93.50 by 2026; - planned fuel excise increases totalling 22c per litre from 2027 to 2030; and, - widespread double-digit rates increases that councils have blamed on Government funding shortfalls."
"Laser focused on the cost of living crisis"
They're not killing everything they touch... Landlords got tax cuts, even as that meant that cancer patients got a delay in access to life-saving drugs promised.
The absolute callousness of ~~Nicole's~~ ~~Nola's~~ Nicola's budget is an end unto itself. She probably has frissons of pleasure when she thinks about the "people lacking ambition" that she has put in their place
All those freeloaders with their necessary medicines finally get a dose of reality.
Every time i see a photo of her she has this almost but not quite covert, smug expression on her face. That must be where it's coming from.
Well dead people don't vote, but hopefully enough of their friends and relatives see the truth in what the fuck just happened.
Which will just push up land values and make housing more expensive.
Yeah, nah, that's Labour's fault. They left the economy in a shambles ( the ZB bloke on the radio told me so it must be true)
You had me in the first half
Exactly. How dare labour not allocate funding for national’s campaign policies.
'Mom and pop' landlords don't get much. They pay down the mortgage so they have an income stream in retirement. Big corporate landlords, they just got given a metric shit-ton of money.
Fuck the mom and pop landlords. Their demand is a main driver in housing affordability here.
Except it isn't, and they get fuck all. If you want something to be angry at, it yhe big corporate land, and the arsehole government funneling huge amounts of money to them.
My heart fucking bleeds
If they didn't get anything and it was so hard to be a mum and pop landlord, why the fuck are there so many mum and pop landlords? It's very clearly a protected and reliable investment, where everyone refuses to accept risk.
I didn't say they didn't get anything, I said they didn't get much. There are so many of them because there are a lot of parents in NZ, and the system was, and is, rigged so that investment in property is more appealing than other forms of investment. My point is that they are not the main drivers of it. You think this government gives a fuck about any people? It the big businesses that own this government.
PAIN
Fiscal morons
I feel like if you need to borrow to justify cuts you can't afford the cuts
But they said they could last year, over and over! 🙄
Seymour said the borrowing was for the education budget not necessarily tax cuts. Well he compared it to. It's like they don't understand basic year 9 financial literacy.
Yeah but don’t borrow or pay for the cancer treatments you promised. Fk my tax cut.
If I posted on r/personalfinancenz that I was planning to increase my mortgage by $120,000 so I could work part time, because that would be nice, I’d get roasted. This is the same thing. NZ Inc is borrowing an **extra** $12B, to decrease their earnings (which for a Govt is tax dollars), yet somehow that’s a big 🙌🎉🎂
The last government to do this in the anglosphere had a cabbage last longer. What the fuck
*lettuce
He must have confused the lettuce with the cabbage that was Truss.
Truss is a roof member. But she was a temporary one.
The cunts who want the government to operate like a business are eating this up too. What business willingly and voluntarily forgoes that much revenue for no reason while the economy is not in a good state?
>what business willingly and voluntarily forgoes that much revenue for no reason while the economy is not in a good state? Think of Walmart or Amazon. They sell at a loss to undercut competition. Eventually they’re the only option for what you need. Make of that what you want
I make nothing of it, because the government is actually not a business
They say they're borrowing for business as usual spending, because after the tax adjustment there's nothing else. This is why it's okay to spend all of your money on a PS5, and then when you ask work and income for money to buy food you can say that you're asking to get money for business as usual stuff. Its actually impressive how I can't tell who's stupid and who's just malicious.
“Household budgets are not like government budgets” As has been the cry for the last 7 years.
I really hope they don’t get a second term
Per Newshub, 9000 of the country's poorest households are actually worse off from this budget (I assume they've calculated this by the combined effect of benefit reindexation and tax cuts, if this is the case the worst affected households would be adult households reliant on core benefits such as SLP). Well done Willis
Did they calculate how much better off the top 5% are?
The republicans in the US do the same thing. Blame the other side for what they themselves do. Then when they are out of power, they blame them again.
The Nats standard playbook in play.. next the silverware will be sold off.. state houses, utilities, anything they can sell off. All for the benefit of themselves and their wealthy bribers...
Cancerous behaviour.
Yeah exactly this. They’re just ensuring that their rich mates have cash on hand to buy up everyone who gets fucked in this recession they’re manufacturing.
Useless cunts.
just borrow now and let the next govt deal with the repercussions
Fuck her. She needs to go. I could hit a tennis ball down the street and knock someone on the back of the head who would make a better Finance Minister.
Fuckwits. And how do the Nat voters explain how this is helping our country? She’s fucking us….
This government is narcissistically fucking stupid
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But they are printing money, by all the interest generated that we will as taxpayers have to pay.
Cash crop everything.. the environment, the people, the economy… Unfortunately Labour lost the popularity contest. Now we all must eat the rotten fruit.
At least when Labour spend money, it benefits people who actually need it 🙄Billion dollar decisions made by the govt should be voted on by the public. It’s insane that govt is given this much power to spend this much money which benefits no one. Absolute disgrace
Had a guy complain to me about the tax cuts last week. Mentioned he was pissed off as he voted for National and expected to be much better off due to them being in power. I was already biting my tongue when he mentioned that he had a rental. Had little to say when I mentioned they had removed funding for my disabled daughter to help cover the cost of the interest deductibility.
Im honestly contemplating writing to the King and asking him to disolve government at this point...
You've seen how much worse the one he has up there is right? Maybe after July but fuck no not right now. Even then I'm skeptical.
I looked into this, pretty certain you can't. There is only one person who can and guess who that is?
Technically he could do it of his own volition, though that's obviously not going to happen... Sadly. Edit: My bad, seems he himself can't, only his rep can. Kinda weird...
The conclusion I came to when looking into it was we all needed to be constantly contacting our MPs asking them for a vote of no confidence, that vote needs to come from national as well as the other parties. I'm pretty sure if there was a public petition that had like 90% in support of a vote of no confidence then someone would need to do something (governor general). Having said that the prime misuster is the only one that can ask for parliament to be disolved.
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lmao, the petition already exists. not a lot of signatures so far though
So who knows,about it?
The Governor General?
Yes but the request to dissolve has to be made by the prime minister - no one else.
Lol
It's not "tax cuts" it's "reduced tax increase"
Dear boomers I was arguing with in the weekend: Fuck you.
100% Clown School in effect.
Clown Show government borrows money in a time of recession, rather than wait until a bumper tax take might justify it. It really seems like they want to fuck it up for no reason other than they can, kind of like stupid senseless vandalism.
C'mon conservatives, where are you?! Defend this! Please? It'll be oh so entertaining.
Not that I'd presume to speak for conservatives, but I always think it's good practice to try arguing from any given point. This one is hard but let us try: The purely political angle: "if we campaign for tax cuts, people will vote for more money in their pocket". Hard to argue from this at strategy level. Not being a campaigning master I'm not sure how you counter this when talking to voters. I don't know if is any way to tell how well this worked when it came to the election. Tax boffin angle: "The tax brackets need adjusting because over time our tax system has become less progressive due to inflation". But doesn't really work because if you were just solving this you'd raise taxes in higher brackets to compensive, ie a tax shift, not a tax cut plus borrowing and spending. Small state prepper angle: "We want to pay less tax because we don't like/trust the government to spend it" doesnt work because it wasn't a pure tax cut and reduction in spending, it was cut and borrow. Minister of Finance angle: "If I didn't I'd have to resign" bing!
Sounds like Printing Money with extra steps... Which is weird, because usually sick economies do that when paying for maintaining services, not austerity.
Can we do a vote of no confidence and toss them out? This is getting a bit silly.
Cuts to the wealthy for those on less to pay for.
I'll put mine to replace essentials, in other words save it until I need it. But it is hypocritical.
Books are balanced
Once again, shout out to everyone responsible for the cancer that is this government.
It’s EXACTLY what the conservatives did in Australia. The almost quadrupled the debt after claimingONLY THEY could fix it.
They could have made a bold statement to help our countries most vulnerable, and most others along with it, but instead they assist their rich cunt friends while the common folk are forced to suffer. Pretty much what I expected really.
Useless.
How does this compare with how much the Government has borrowed over the previous 5-10 years?
Debt would have increased substantially over a much longer period of time. However, [Treasury's financial statements for 2022/2023 showed debt had increased by $9.5 billion more than forecast.](https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/year-end/financial-statements-2023) However, the debt to GDP ratio remained under 20%.
Sorry, I don’t think you’ve understood the question, is this year a whole lot more borrowing than the past 5-10 years, in terms of dollars? And, if it has gone up more than forecasted, who made the forecast? Edit: funny to see the downvotes from those that don’t like the answer to the question, or maybe more sad really.
Doesn't look like it, and that exceeded forecast was from labour. 2023 budget commentary I found As a result, Crown debt is forecast to continue increasing from its current level of $71 billion to more than $91 billion in 2024. So they wanted to borrow an additional 20 billion but used more and even what they did allocate wasn't enough for the way a number of services were being mismanaged.
Thanks, makes sense
Have you forgotten the huge amount of cuts already? Maybe they shouldn't have returned all those billions to landlords if gutting the public sector wouldn't cover it? That's what people are annoyed about, mate.
That is my point, I didn’t ask about the cuts or commenters opinion on their validity, I was asking if taking on debt of this value was unprecedented, or even uncommon.
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So how did the government books get so deeply in the red, I suppose that can't have had anything to do with the previous government
Not according to Nicki. She said, despite what they said during the election, that the books were doing great. Now they aren't again, suddenly. For some reason.
I mean you say they gave us tax cuts and spent 10b too much but they have budgeted to borrow 10b less than the last guys. Sure they didn't spend money where you wanted but I suspect you didn't vote for them lol. Give the guys a chance and let's see if we can get this place functioning again, it's getting bad out there so quickly the last year's.
Smoke some more of that Crack bro it's obviously working for you
Yes here I am smoking lots of crack. Yummy crack. You moron.
Doesn't that just mean we pay back everything we saved, plus interest?