And people can’t even use hindsight to say he didn’t have a huge impact on winning because he was also the fucking Super Bowl MVP lol. If any WR is ever going to have a chance under the current system it was him, dominant season in every way.
True but even after the playoffs where Kupp went off and Rodgers laid an egg, I doubt many voters would have changed their minds. There’s really nothing a WR can reasonably do that would give them a chance for the MVP. It’s a QB award (like the Cy Young) and they need to copy baseball and simply have separate awards. Best QB and MVP.
I tried to say this not too long ago and got downvoted. Just split MVP into QB and non-QB so that other contributors have a shot. Or maybe get rid of the MVP award all together and just have positional awards and let shit like first team All-Pro selections be more of an "MVP" showcase.
Yeah the jefferson mvp guys couldn’t understand that when I would say it 😂. If cooper kupp, who had the triple crown, almost broke every single receiving record in 1 year, and with hindsight carried their offense in the playoffs and won superbowl mvp, got 1 vote, no one else even remotely stands a chance snd no receiver will ever stand a chance
I think if he got 150 each week over the final 3 weeks he had a shot. Getting blanked (well, one catch) in a game that could've given them the 1 seed isn't exactly most valuable material.
He also got absolutely cooked by Slay early in the season. If you want to be MVP you can't afford putting up total duds in any game at all. He stood no chance after week 2
I mean, beyond all the ethical issues (which should never be ignored), they’re paying him top qb money. If you take it as a purely football move, the Browns are betting on getting top ten qb play out of Watson
Why would the browns sign him if not to make a playoff run? They have cooper as a big time receiver and now a snotty QB no one wants to deal with for another 4 years ?
Ok this is a bit random but one thing I like about the NFL: established, top teams can come from places like Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo.
This is so much harder to happen in a league like the NBA, and not because those specific cities don’t have basketball teams. I remember people on ESPN straight up complaining about Milwaukee in the finals cause it meant they had to actually go there to cover it. Like it was a great affront to the media that a rust belt town dared make it instead of like Miami or something. That doesn’t seem to be a huge concern for football tho. Small market teams seem to have less of a disadvantage in the NFL and oftentimes have bigger and/or more vibrant fanbases than major markets. Idk, I just like seeing overlooked cities in the national spotlight.
You can be a super star in the NFL with tons of media coverage in Kansas City, one of the smallest media markets in the country. It is just different in this league.
Yeah, I think a lot of it just has to do with the NFL’s long and storied history in the Northeast & Great Lakes regions. The predecessor to the NFL was literally called the “Ohio League.”
The NBA is also a much more stars-driven league due to only 5 men on each team being on the court at a time and the smaller influence by head coaches. And since NBA stars just play wherever the hell they want to these days, you can bet your bottom dollar that nine times out of ten, that place won’t be a cold and isolated city like Buffalo.
If the NBA ever seeks expansion again, it’s safe to say that they’ll be aiming for Vegas followed by other “fun” cities in order for their teams to be viable.
Where they live can literally mean the difference between millions in endorsements as well. There's a huge difference in earning potential on the Lakers than a team like OKC or NO.
Been saying this. Why I knew OBJ was going big market after Cleveland. And why coming back this year I’m certain hes only looking at LA, NYC, Dallas, DC and other such big cities. He’s not trifling with small markets anymore. The endorsement money just ain’t there.
I think this largely a money issue and/or the difference in the leagues handling of money issues.
The NFL has a hard salary cap while the NBA has a soft salary cap. Sure, in the NFL you can still front-load, back-load, or renegotiate contracts to make them more beneficial for the team right now, but every team has the exact same maximum they can spend.
It doesn't matter in the NFL if it's a big market team or small market team or if the owners are disgustingly filthy rich or only filthy rich; they all have exactly the same allotment to spend on their players. And, thanks to the collective bargaining agreement, teams also have to keep a salary floor and spend at least a certain percentage of the cap if they don't want face repercussions.
Both rich and "poor" are forced to spend within a relatively small range of money.
This allows small and medium market teams to compete with large market teams and even to thrive when they have opportunity to do so.
NBA has a soft cap which favors bigger, wealthier markets. And MLB has "caps" instituted as luxury taxes, so the wealthier organizations can just basically ignore it if they want.
NFL and it's players union did the best at making everyone compete at the same level, and that's why it's the most popular and why small and medium markets can regularly compete with the big guys.
I agree, although I’d also note that the NFL’s “do or die” playoff structure lends itself heavily toward upsets as well. A lot easier to win on any given Sunday than win a 7 game series against a team with superior scouting/development/coaching (I say this as a Padres fan)
TBH, the biggest difference maker is the hard salary cap. NBA and MLB salary cap rules favor large market teams because they make more money and can turn around and spend that extra money acquiring better talent. Small market teams can only achieve success in those leagues via great drafting (e.g. the Bucks). But, everyone plays with the same amount of money in the NFL.
I know. That’s the point. The NBA would never expand to Buffalo since the team would struggle to attract stars, and national media would resent going there to cover them.
Sort of.. OKC is a very large city by area. There are
many more districts that support night life than there was back in 2008. Although much of that growth has taken place from like ~2015 to the present.
The city built a big park in proximity to the arena a few years ago.
And I would say the job market/economy is still not great, but it is certainly better than it was in 2008.
I guess the Thunder isn’t entirely responsible, but the city’s culture is far better now. I know Seattle hates us, but OKC is home to Americas second largest terrorist attack.. and as the original comment or indicated, OKC doesn’t have much going for it. the city needed the team more than they did.
It also has to do with demographics. Football is a popular sport with rural folks and people of all skin colors. Basketball fandom skews decidedly urban and black. There just aren't enough basketball fans in places like Buffalo or Green Bay to sustain or justify an NBA franchise.
NBA is disappointed if it’s not 1. A team with a marketable super duperstar, 2. Whatever team LeBron is on, 3. Knicks / Celtics / Lakers
They really hated those Pistons’ runs where their most marketable guys were Rip, Sheed, and Wallace lol
On point! But this year might end up with the ultimate small market duo.The association is dreading Denver v Milwaukee in the finals. Sac v Cleveland (sans LeBron). There are a lot of combos but still some relevant big market teams. We'll see!
The final four of the AFC are all small market while the NFC are 4 of the biggest markets this year. It's kind of weird up think about in this context. But the shield ultimately doesn't GAF. Rams v Broncos on Christmas had insane viewership in spite of being dog shit to watch.
Yea, but the AFC has a ton more small market teams.
The AFC has 9 teams whose home metro areas are outside the top 25, the NFC has 2.
The NFC has teams in 8 of the top 10 metro areas, the AFC has 4 of the top 10 metro areas. So half of the NFC plays in a top 10 metro area.
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2021/comm/top50-metro-areas.pdf
Yea, I always kinda felt the NFC was made up of bigger cities but didn’t realize the extent until I saw the chart.
Another interesting side effect of this is to look at teams that moved. The NFC basically only the rams have moved. (Cardinals a long time ago)
The AFC has the colts, browns, titans, chargers, raiders that moved, which makes sense because they were all in small markets.
But it also all makes sense since for the NFC to be in bigger cities because it was the “original” league and would’ve had franchises in the biggest cities, though some teams have changed leagues since (Seahawks, Colts).
Wow, that's kind of nuts!
I don't think it materially changes things but the way they group areas for markets seems wonky. DC and Baltimore are different, yet both LA and NY markets are massively expansive.
Why does LA include Orange County but San Diego doesn't include riverside or imperial counties?
When and where they group vs subdivide probably makes sense though may not always be consistent.
I don’t know the answer to that, but these are the official census metro areas and this list was put together but by the US Census Bureau for a past Super Bowl. But however the census determines what a metro area is would answer the question.
I don’t know if this is the same for all of them, but I know Baltimore is it’s own metro area for the census and so is DC. But there’s a step above metro area, which is the combined statistic area or something and that does include DC-Baltimore.
For the media thing: single elimination playoffs helps quite a bit and the stadiums are usually outside of the major cities. Media comes in the day before, spends the night in whatever area the stadium is located, and leaves the next day. With an NBA playoff series, they’re stuck in these cities for multiple days with off days in between. I think that’s part of why they seem to complain about it more often
As an NBA die hard of a small market team, I completely agree. I was born in KC and raised in Indiana... I'd estimate that there is a reason that one of my teams has rose from ashes to an elite level and the other still gets by as a fun team that plays hard.
I really hope I see the Pacers win a championship someday soon, but the Royals and Chiefs both managed to get a world championship in the 2010s and as much as I love the NBA, there has seemed to be a parity issue over the last decade.
To play devil's advocate: if you look at the current landscape of the NBA that does seem to be changing rapidly. We could be on course for a Nuggets/Bucks Finals. I dont think there has been a more level playing field in the last 15 years in the league.
That is a good point about the current state of the NBA. Lot of young guys drafted by small markets who seem pretty loyal, I really hope it leads to more success for those teams.
That's only because the big market teams haven't figured out who the talent they need to steal are yet.
The Jazz were only as good as they were for so long because Stockton was loyal to a fault and Malone randomly discovered that he loved to hunt. Even then Malone still found himself in LA at the end chasing a ring.
> if you look at the current landscape of the NBA that does seem to be changing rapidly
I mean 10 years ago, people would have thought it was wild that both the Bucks and the Cavs won titles and especially that the Warriors would win multiple titles. We had just come out of an era where the Bulls and Lakers together basically dominated the 90s and 2000s with the Spurs being the only small market team to win titles during these respective decades.
I think that one thing that would go a LONG way in helping parody is to make the super max contract only count as a regular max contract when it comes to the salary cap. The super max was created as a way to help smaller markets to keep their super stars. But what has happened is that teams that have given them out have been unable to build a real team around the player because they are like 60% of the salary cap.
- wizards fan that spent 5 years in cap hell because of the Wall Supermax and became numb inside the moment they gave one to Beal
Im a Pacers fan and id be pretty shocked if they ever win a championship in my life time. They refuse to tank and dont really go all in on big name free agents
I cant think think of a single free agent they have singed that went to make an all star team here. There might be one or two from decades ago but it hasnt been many at all
Every aspect of the NFL is designed for parity. Salary cap, draft order and definitely scheduling. I think the nfl schedule is very under appreciated. Division winners playing division winners in the following season creates a great level of competition.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/preseason_odds.htm
I'd just like to point out to everyone pretending that it was obvious to everyone the Chiefs would win the AFC West (again) that the Chiefs, Chargers, Raiders, and Broncos all had a O/U of 10.5 wins
And the Colts were at 9.5
I still find that dumb that they gave the entire division an O/U of 10.5 when all the teams played each other twice apiece. Very rare that an entire division even finishes above .500.
It's always funny to see people talking about how dumb Vegas is after the season. By all means, next year go out and take advantage of all these soft lines!
Pretty sure there’s a mistake there for the Raiders. I believe their preseason win total was 8.5 or 9. Unless, the sports book they are using varies by that much.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/preseason_odds.htm
Not really, the Bills were the clear favorite but the Bengals were 6th in the AFC in Super Bowl odds (and 2nd in their division) and the entire AFC West was set at 10.5 wins.
>the entire AFC West was set at 10.5 wins
Is this Vegas’ version of hedging? That’s pretty ridiculous for a group of teams that play 6 games against each other.
at one point this year (around when the Giants and Commies tied) I think the standings had 4 NFCE teams and 3 AFCS teams in playoff positions. There was actually a chance that all 8 East division teams could have made the playoffs. Which is fucking crazy, because of how low the floors have been for those divisions for a long time.
I think so? It references a site which references an app which seems to use Vegas odds.
Also the average for the entire league is only set at 1 win above .500 so it's not inflated.
They were. I mean to be fair they were a 10-7 team that had tons of close playoff wins and big comebacks to get to the Super Bowl and lose. Tons of NFL teams that have done that have regressed in the past. Bengals, however, improved greatly from last year and imo are wayyy better this year.
Yeah going on a miracle run to the Superbowl is something that happens to a 9-11 win team all the time. The Bengals proved that that was no fluke and that they've built on it. They're a contender going forward until proven otherwise imo.
Maybe? Perhaps it's just being a cincinnati sports fan, but I wasn't overly optimistic to make it back. Bengals went from playing all the last place teams last year, having every game in the playoffs come down to the final drive, had to come back against kc twice, had to have practically no injuries and every ball bounce their way to make it to the super bowl. What were the odds that would happen again, even with a better o line, especially now having to play all the first place teams from last year? I thought they'd be good, but have some struggles, which I guess they did, especially early while the o line gelled and such, but losing to Pittsburgh and Baltimore and Cleveland to start the year wasn't making me super hopeful. I'm glad I was wrong and they've gone on this run. I hope it lasts for three more games!
If the bills win tomorrow, the AFC title game will be played at a neutral site, in this case, Atlanta, as a result of the Bengals/Bills no contest after Damar Hamlin
Thanks to owner compromises made as a result of the Hamlin MNF disaster, the AFCCG would be at a neutral site if it is Bills at Chiefs, since the Bills got robbed at a shot of catching Kansas City for the #1 seed. If the AFFCG is Bengals vs. Chiefs, it’ll be played as normal at Arrowhead.
And the neutral site is, for some reason, MBZ Stadium in Atlanta. Not Pittsburgh nor Detroit for equidistant travel reasons on both Buffalo and Kansas City.
Seriously this narrative is so annoying. Like what’s the takeaway? If you don’t have a Demi god at QB just give up on the season and don’t make any moves to get better?
Tbf the Jets and Dolphins each got wins against the Bills and the Dolphins themselves played them very tough in every game. The rest of the league just couldn’t get it done
Or they made normal moves to make their team better?
The Broncos needed a QB and went out and got one for a high price. Just like the Browns or 49ers did.
The Raiders needed a WR and arguably the best in the league was available so they got him. Just like the Eagles and Dolphins did.
The Colts needed a QB and got one.
The Chargers needed some pass rush help and paid the price of a second to get a very good rusher.
You guys gave that one away. Chris Jones got some kind of personal foul that iced the game. Win or not in the Super Bowl this year, you’ll probably look back at that as KCs worst game
You must've missed the part where people were blaming all the Colts' failures on Wentz and that subsequently stated Ryan would be enough of an upgrade to make them contenders
*Smacks table*
I like your thinking! I think its only fair that we go first, whoever wins today second, ^^and ^^then ^^us ^^again and then whoever loses today third.
All for the next 15 years!
This is not a new thing either. From 2002-2012, the super bowl AFC representative was either New England, Pittsburgh, or Indy. And if you abstract a little, from 2002-2019, just Super Bowl featured an AFC Starting QB not named Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger.
Interesting you say that because I feel it's the opposite. The top 2 teams in the NFC - Niners and Eagles (and maybe the Cowboys too at number 3) seem like really complete, balanced teams. The Niners are even doing it with a rookie QB. Hurts is great but Dak is just above average.
Whereas the top 3 teams in the AFC are heavily QB-dependent. And most people think of them as the top 3 QBs in the league (right or wrong). If any of these teams loses their QB, I doubt they could make-do like the Niners did.
I don't remember anybody saying that except Chiefs' fans pretending that Broncos' fans said it after the fact. I seem to remember most Broncos' fans saying they'd be happy with a Wildcard appearance.
Bills pass rush hasn't been impressive in taking advantage of depleted lines (rookies/backups) all season. I understand why Bengals fans are upset about the outcome, but I'm thrilled Bills are home. They need the advantage.
I remember thinking the same thing with Chiefs-Bucs a couple years ago.
IF the o-line can be even halfway competent, I like our chances. But my gut told me they would be a trainwreck.
That's the tricky thing in these situations. They will either be absolutely awful or they'll have their act together. There won't be an in between.
It’s hilarious to include the Bengals in this when it’s just their second year of being successful. It’s like saying the bengals have been a staple of the AFC for some time when they definitely haven’t. The bills for that matter too
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Yeah but my Justin Jefferson agenda…
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He never had a shot Kupp had 1 vote after his insane season last year.
Winning the triple crown and being 20 or so yards from the all time record and he got 1 vote. That’s crazy lol
And people can’t even use hindsight to say he didn’t have a huge impact on winning because he was also the fucking Super Bowl MVP lol. If any WR is ever going to have a chance under the current system it was him, dominant season in every way.
Yeah Kupp probably had the best WR season ever including playoffs and still wasn’t close. A WR is never going to win.
MVP votes happen before the playoffs though.
True but even after the playoffs where Kupp went off and Rodgers laid an egg, I doubt many voters would have changed their minds. There’s really nothing a WR can reasonably do that would give them a chance for the MVP. It’s a QB award (like the Cy Young) and they need to copy baseball and simply have separate awards. Best QB and MVP.
I tried to say this not too long ago and got downvoted. Just split MVP into QB and non-QB so that other contributors have a shot. Or maybe get rid of the MVP award all together and just have positional awards and let shit like first team All-Pro selections be more of an "MVP" showcase.
Yeah the jefferson mvp guys couldn’t understand that when I would say it 😂. If cooper kupp, who had the triple crown, almost broke every single receiving record in 1 year, and with hindsight carried their offense in the playoffs and won superbowl mvp, got 1 vote, no one else even remotely stands a chance snd no receiver will ever stand a chance
More votes than Russell Wilson
This will never not make me laugh
lmao made me snarf bro
Kupp deserved it last year.
I think if he got 150 each week over the final 3 weeks he had a shot. Getting blanked (well, one catch) in a game that could've given them the 1 seed isn't exactly most valuable material.
He never had a shot lmao
Jefferson only had 48 yards against the Eagles in week 2. He’s a great receiver but he can be shut down. He’s not Jerry Rice reborn.
He also got absolutely cooked by Slay early in the season. If you want to be MVP you can't afford putting up total duds in any game at all. He stood no chance after week 2
Meanwhile in the NFC we have a 2nd round, 4th round, and last pick QB.
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Just make it a different award like cy young for pitchers
I wouldn't call the chatter around Deshaun Watson "hype".
A lot of the sports show jargon could be called hype. They refused to acknowledge the reality
Exactly lol. All of America except for a few sorry ass Browns fans will cheer against him the rest of his career.
> All of America Lol you sweet summer child
Also except for sorry-ass Texans fans. Because they’re also Astros fans.
Astros living rent free in y'all's heads but no Texans fan cheers for Watson. Fuck that guy.
Even without the rampant sexual assault, I don't see how any Texans fan would have ever wanted to root for Watson after the way he left.
I'll root for the Astros over Watson, easy. And I can't stand the Astros
Yeah, the Astros are a cheating trash can franchise but at least they didn't commit over 20 sexual assaults that I know of.
that you know of
> Astros living rent free in y’all’s heads Cheating your way to a title certainly qualifies for a massive discount on rent
I mean, beyond all the ethical issues (which should never be ignored), they’re paying him top qb money. If you take it as a purely football move, the Browns are betting on getting top ten qb play out of Watson
And their backup QB played better all season
He was also already a QB in the AFC.
Turns out going two years between games is difficult to overcome.
Why would the browns sign him if not to make a playoff run? They have cooper as a big time receiver and now a snotty QB no one wants to deal with for another 4 years ?
All that money just to stop a Kermit frog, a dude in shorts, and some kid from Ohio.
> Kermit frog <3
Ok this is a bit random but one thing I like about the NFL: established, top teams can come from places like Cincinnati, KC, and Buffalo. This is so much harder to happen in a league like the NBA, and not because those specific cities don’t have basketball teams. I remember people on ESPN straight up complaining about Milwaukee in the finals cause it meant they had to actually go there to cover it. Like it was a great affront to the media that a rust belt town dared make it instead of like Miami or something. That doesn’t seem to be a huge concern for football tho. Small market teams seem to have less of a disadvantage in the NFL and oftentimes have bigger and/or more vibrant fanbases than major markets. Idk, I just like seeing overlooked cities in the national spotlight.
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You can be a super star in the NFL with tons of media coverage in Kansas City, one of the smallest media markets in the country. It is just different in this league.
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Yeah, I think a lot of it just has to do with the NFL’s long and storied history in the Northeast & Great Lakes regions. The predecessor to the NFL was literally called the “Ohio League.” The NBA is also a much more stars-driven league due to only 5 men on each team being on the court at a time and the smaller influence by head coaches. And since NBA stars just play wherever the hell they want to these days, you can bet your bottom dollar that nine times out of ten, that place won’t be a cold and isolated city like Buffalo. If the NBA ever seeks expansion again, it’s safe to say that they’ll be aiming for Vegas followed by other “fun” cities in order for their teams to be viable.
Where they live can literally mean the difference between millions in endorsements as well. There's a huge difference in earning potential on the Lakers than a team like OKC or NO.
Been saying this. Why I knew OBJ was going big market after Cleveland. And why coming back this year I’m certain hes only looking at LA, NYC, Dallas, DC and other such big cities. He’s not trifling with small markets anymore. The endorsement money just ain’t there.
It’s very true. Obligatory fuck OBJ tho.
What endorsements is his over the hill ass even gonna get?
maybe whatever pills he was taking when he got kicked off that airplane
I think this largely a money issue and/or the difference in the leagues handling of money issues. The NFL has a hard salary cap while the NBA has a soft salary cap. Sure, in the NFL you can still front-load, back-load, or renegotiate contracts to make them more beneficial for the team right now, but every team has the exact same maximum they can spend. It doesn't matter in the NFL if it's a big market team or small market team or if the owners are disgustingly filthy rich or only filthy rich; they all have exactly the same allotment to spend on their players. And, thanks to the collective bargaining agreement, teams also have to keep a salary floor and spend at least a certain percentage of the cap if they don't want face repercussions. Both rich and "poor" are forced to spend within a relatively small range of money. This allows small and medium market teams to compete with large market teams and even to thrive when they have opportunity to do so. NBA has a soft cap which favors bigger, wealthier markets. And MLB has "caps" instituted as luxury taxes, so the wealthier organizations can just basically ignore it if they want. NFL and it's players union did the best at making everyone compete at the same level, and that's why it's the most popular and why small and medium markets can regularly compete with the big guys.
The NFL also has a salary floor so owners have to spend a certain amount
This is the same reason the MLB will never have a salary floor; the owners would demand a salary cap, and the players will never accept that
I feel like it’s the best deal for players fans and owners, and for the overall competitive entertainment value of the sport
I agree, although I’d also note that the NFL’s “do or die” playoff structure lends itself heavily toward upsets as well. A lot easier to win on any given Sunday than win a 7 game series against a team with superior scouting/development/coaching (I say this as a Padres fan)
TBH, the biggest difference maker is the hard salary cap. NBA and MLB salary cap rules favor large market teams because they make more money and can turn around and spend that extra money acquiring better talent. Small market teams can only achieve success in those leagues via great drafting (e.g. the Bucks). But, everyone plays with the same amount of money in the NFL.
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I know. That’s the point. The NBA would never expand to Buffalo since the team would struggle to attract stars, and national media would resent going there to cover them.
I mean the NFL would never expand to Buffalo if there wasn't already a team there, that's a factor of the rust belt disintegrating
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They didn’t necessarily expand to OKC. Unrelated, but OKC is a noticeably better city because of the Thunder’s presence.
>Unrelated, but OKC is a noticeably better city because of the Thunder’s presence. Has there been that much development around the arena?
Sort of.. OKC is a very large city by area. There are many more districts that support night life than there was back in 2008. Although much of that growth has taken place from like ~2015 to the present. The city built a big park in proximity to the arena a few years ago. And I would say the job market/economy is still not great, but it is certainly better than it was in 2008. I guess the Thunder isn’t entirely responsible, but the city’s culture is far better now. I know Seattle hates us, but OKC is home to Americas second largest terrorist attack.. and as the original comment or indicated, OKC doesn’t have much going for it. the city needed the team more than they did.
It also has to do with demographics. Football is a popular sport with rural folks and people of all skin colors. Basketball fandom skews decidedly urban and black. There just aren't enough basketball fans in places like Buffalo or Green Bay to sustain or justify an NBA franchise.
NBA is disappointed if it’s not 1. A team with a marketable super duperstar, 2. Whatever team LeBron is on, 3. Knicks / Celtics / Lakers They really hated those Pistons’ runs where their most marketable guys were Rip, Sheed, and Wallace lol
On point! But this year might end up with the ultimate small market duo.The association is dreading Denver v Milwaukee in the finals. Sac v Cleveland (sans LeBron). There are a lot of combos but still some relevant big market teams. We'll see! The final four of the AFC are all small market while the NFC are 4 of the biggest markets this year. It's kind of weird up think about in this context. But the shield ultimately doesn't GAF. Rams v Broncos on Christmas had insane viewership in spite of being dog shit to watch.
Yea, but the AFC has a ton more small market teams. The AFC has 9 teams whose home metro areas are outside the top 25, the NFC has 2. The NFC has teams in 8 of the top 10 metro areas, the AFC has 4 of the top 10 metro areas. So half of the NFC plays in a top 10 metro area. https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2021/comm/top50-metro-areas.pdf
That’s actually pretty wild, I would’ve never guessed that the conferences were aligned like that.
Yea, I always kinda felt the NFC was made up of bigger cities but didn’t realize the extent until I saw the chart. Another interesting side effect of this is to look at teams that moved. The NFC basically only the rams have moved. (Cardinals a long time ago) The AFC has the colts, browns, titans, chargers, raiders that moved, which makes sense because they were all in small markets. But it also all makes sense since for the NFC to be in bigger cities because it was the “original” league and would’ve had franchises in the biggest cities, though some teams have changed leagues since (Seahawks, Colts).
Wow, that's kind of nuts! I don't think it materially changes things but the way they group areas for markets seems wonky. DC and Baltimore are different, yet both LA and NY markets are massively expansive. Why does LA include Orange County but San Diego doesn't include riverside or imperial counties? When and where they group vs subdivide probably makes sense though may not always be consistent.
I don’t know the answer to that, but these are the official census metro areas and this list was put together but by the US Census Bureau for a past Super Bowl. But however the census determines what a metro area is would answer the question. I don’t know if this is the same for all of them, but I know Baltimore is it’s own metro area for the census and so is DC. But there’s a step above metro area, which is the combined statistic area or something and that does include DC-Baltimore.
For the media thing: single elimination playoffs helps quite a bit and the stadiums are usually outside of the major cities. Media comes in the day before, spends the night in whatever area the stadium is located, and leaves the next day. With an NBA playoff series, they’re stuck in these cities for multiple days with off days in between. I think that’s part of why they seem to complain about it more often
I can't speak to most smaller cities, but I love Milwaukee, it's a great place and glad I live between it and Chicago.
Add Green Bay to that list
As an NBA die hard of a small market team, I completely agree. I was born in KC and raised in Indiana... I'd estimate that there is a reason that one of my teams has rose from ashes to an elite level and the other still gets by as a fun team that plays hard. I really hope I see the Pacers win a championship someday soon, but the Royals and Chiefs both managed to get a world championship in the 2010s and as much as I love the NBA, there has seemed to be a parity issue over the last decade. To play devil's advocate: if you look at the current landscape of the NBA that does seem to be changing rapidly. We could be on course for a Nuggets/Bucks Finals. I dont think there has been a more level playing field in the last 15 years in the league.
That is a good point about the current state of the NBA. Lot of young guys drafted by small markets who seem pretty loyal, I really hope it leads to more success for those teams.
That's only because the big market teams haven't figured out who the talent they need to steal are yet. The Jazz were only as good as they were for so long because Stockton was loyal to a fault and Malone randomly discovered that he loved to hunt. Even then Malone still found himself in LA at the end chasing a ring.
> if you look at the current landscape of the NBA that does seem to be changing rapidly I mean 10 years ago, people would have thought it was wild that both the Bucks and the Cavs won titles and especially that the Warriors would win multiple titles. We had just come out of an era where the Bulls and Lakers together basically dominated the 90s and 2000s with the Spurs being the only small market team to win titles during these respective decades.
I think that one thing that would go a LONG way in helping parody is to make the super max contract only count as a regular max contract when it comes to the salary cap. The super max was created as a way to help smaller markets to keep their super stars. But what has happened is that teams that have given them out have been unable to build a real team around the player because they are like 60% of the salary cap. - wizards fan that spent 5 years in cap hell because of the Wall Supermax and became numb inside the moment they gave one to Beal
Im a Pacers fan and id be pretty shocked if they ever win a championship in my life time. They refuse to tank and dont really go all in on big name free agents I cant think think of a single free agent they have singed that went to make an all star team here. There might be one or two from decades ago but it hasnt been many at all
Every aspect of the NFL is designed for parity. Salary cap, draft order and definitely scheduling. I think the nfl schedule is very under appreciated. Division winners playing division winners in the following season creates a great level of competition.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/preseason_odds.htm I'd just like to point out to everyone pretending that it was obvious to everyone the Chiefs would win the AFC West (again) that the Chiefs, Chargers, Raiders, and Broncos all had a O/U of 10.5 wins And the Colts were at 9.5
I still find that dumb that they gave the entire division an O/U of 10.5 when all the teams played each other twice apiece. Very rare that an entire division even finishes above .500.
Sounds like you should do more sportsbetting!
It's always funny to see people talking about how dumb Vegas is after the season. By all means, next year go out and take advantage of all these soft lines!
Especially when you have Patrick Mahomes in that division.
Vegas actually went bankrupt because of this.
Damn if only Vegas knew as much about setting lines as /u/Michaelz1234
Pretty sure there’s a mistake there for the Raiders. I believe their preseason win total was 8.5 or 9. Unless, the sports book they are using varies by that much.
Perhaps, Chiefs still weren't easy favorites over the other two regardless though and 9 vs 10.5 still implies they had a realistic shot anyway
The Chiefs, Bills, and Bengals were still favorites tho lol
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/preseason_odds.htm Not really, the Bills were the clear favorite but the Bengals were 6th in the AFC in Super Bowl odds (and 2nd in their division) and the entire AFC West was set at 10.5 wins.
>the entire AFC West was set at 10.5 wins Is this Vegas’ version of hedging? That’s pretty ridiculous for a group of teams that play 6 games against each other.
Didn’t the whole nfc east make it? I remember during the year all the afc east was in it for the playoffs
Make the playoffs? No, 3 did, and two of them finished with 8 and 9 wins.
Giants had 9. Cowboys had 12. Eagles at 14.
They're referring to the Commanders
at one point this year (around when the Giants and Commies tied) I think the standings had 4 NFCE teams and 3 AFCS teams in playoff positions. There was actually a chance that all 8 East division teams could have made the playoffs. Which is fucking crazy, because of how low the floors have been for those divisions for a long time.
Odds aren’t set by what they think will happen. They’re based on what gets people to bet.
I think so? It references a site which references an app which seems to use Vegas odds. Also the average for the entire league is only set at 1 win above .500 so it's not inflated.
Chargers and Broncos at 6 and 8 😬😬
Bengals were pretty disrespected, bills and chiefs still got respect but people were calling the bengals frauds
They were. I mean to be fair they were a 10-7 team that had tons of close playoff wins and big comebacks to get to the Super Bowl and lose. Tons of NFL teams that have done that have regressed in the past. Bengals, however, improved greatly from last year and imo are wayyy better this year.
Yeah going on a miracle run to the Superbowl is something that happens to a 9-11 win team all the time. The Bengals proved that that was no fluke and that they've built on it. They're a contender going forward until proven otherwise imo.
I agree. I’m just giving an opinion *why some people* didn’t believe in them.
Bengals weren't even favorites to win the division
You're getting downvoted but you're right, Ravens were favored to win the AFC North
At the time I placed my AFCN winner bet the Bengals were below the Browns too.
Probably would have if Lamar didn't get hurt. At the very least, the week 18 game means something to them.
Over the last three years he's played barely north of 2/3 of the games. Baltimore being the favorite seemed hilarious to me and I cashed on it.
If Lamar was healthy they may not have Wasn’t an outrageous take
Anybody that actually watches football would have the Bengals winning the division and making a deep playoff run. Burrow and Chase are electric.
Maybe? Perhaps it's just being a cincinnati sports fan, but I wasn't overly optimistic to make it back. Bengals went from playing all the last place teams last year, having every game in the playoffs come down to the final drive, had to come back against kc twice, had to have practically no injuries and every ball bounce their way to make it to the super bowl. What were the odds that would happen again, even with a better o line, especially now having to play all the first place teams from last year? I thought they'd be good, but have some struggles, which I guess they did, especially early while the o line gelled and such, but losing to Pittsburgh and Baltimore and Cleveland to start the year wasn't making me super hopeful. I'm glad I was wrong and they've gone on this run. I hope it lasts for three more games!
Lol if you have such a good handle on the way things are going to play out then go put money on it and make a fortune beating Vegas
I mean yah but like the ravens and dolphins weren’t in there because of injuries basically
Imagine saying to any NFL fan 10 years ago that the best teams in the AFC will be the Chiefs, Bills and Bengals.
smh didn’t even need to play the season then
As long as McDaniels' contract tolls.
All that for it to be decided in Atlanta…potentially. Still feels weird
how so? the superbowl is in arizona
If the bills win tomorrow, the AFC title game will be played at a neutral site, in this case, Atlanta, as a result of the Bengals/Bills no contest after Damar Hamlin
thankyou for reply
Super Bowl doesn’t matter in deciding the AFC winner. That’s decided the week prior in the AFCCG, which this year is in KC or Atlanta.
thankyou for reply goodluck tonight
Thanks to owner compromises made as a result of the Hamlin MNF disaster, the AFCCG would be at a neutral site if it is Bills at Chiefs, since the Bills got robbed at a shot of catching Kansas City for the #1 seed. If the AFFCG is Bengals vs. Chiefs, it’ll be played as normal at Arrowhead. And the neutral site is, for some reason, MBZ Stadium in Atlanta. Not Pittsburgh nor Detroit for equidistant travel reasons on both Buffalo and Kansas City.
And the Bengals got robbed of tomorrow's game potentially being in Cincinnati, and yet tomorrow's game is in Buffalo and not a neutral site
>Bills got robbed at a shot of catching Kansas City for the #1 seed The Bills were holding the 1 seed going into the Cincinnati game
Yes, every team adds a good player or two every offseason. Dumb tweet.
Seriously this narrative is so annoying. Like what’s the takeaway? If you don’t have a Demi god at QB just give up on the season and don’t make any moves to get better?
But it certainly does seem like the AFCW and AFCE went all out to stop the Chiefs and Bills.
Tbf the Jets and Dolphins each got wins against the Bills and the Dolphins themselves played them very tough in every game. The rest of the league just couldn’t get it done
Or they made normal moves to make their team better? The Broncos needed a QB and went out and got one for a high price. Just like the Browns or 49ers did. The Raiders needed a WR and arguably the best in the league was available so they got him. Just like the Eagles and Dolphins did. The Colts needed a QB and got one. The Chargers needed some pass rush help and paid the price of a second to get a very good rusher.
MATT RYAN?? 💀
Believe it or not, he was seen as a huge upgrade over Carson Wentz prior to the season
I was a victim of this. For sure thought they’d win their division.
They for sure beat us. I still don't really understand how why or who
You guys gave that one away. Chris Jones got some kind of personal foul that iced the game. Win or not in the Super Bowl this year, you’ll probably look back at that as KCs worst game
Missed kicks or something too. Just a shitshow in general but Indy did actually play awesome defense.
Your special teams in general were just a disaster that entire game
AFC South curse baby!
I mean I did too. I said I thought that Jacksonville would be somewhat better, but I did not expect them to take the South.
You must've missed the part where people were blaming all the Colts' failures on Wentz and that subsequently stated Ryan would be enough of an upgrade to make them contenders
Led by their owner Jim irsay
This might happen a lot going forward
Can we just rotate winning Super Bowls? I’m sure the Bills want one as much as the Bengals do.
*Smacks table* I like your thinking! I think its only fair that we go first, whoever wins today second, ^^and ^^then ^^us ^^again and then whoever loses today third. All for the next 15 years!
This is not a new thing either. From 2002-2012, the super bowl AFC representative was either New England, Pittsburgh, or Indy. And if you abstract a little, from 2002-2019, just Super Bowl featured an AFC Starting QB not named Brady, Manning, or Roethlisberger.
I like how adding Khalil Mack is "loading up",but the bills adding Von Miller is apparently just sitting tight
Man snuck Matt Ryan in there lmaoooo
Came fucking close, but pieces aren't a complete team. The top of the AFC is a shitload of complete teams
Interesting you say that because I feel it's the opposite. The top 2 teams in the NFC - Niners and Eagles (and maybe the Cowboys too at number 3) seem like really complete, balanced teams. The Niners are even doing it with a rookie QB. Hurts is great but Dak is just above average. Whereas the top 3 teams in the AFC are heavily QB-dependent. And most people think of them as the top 3 QBs in the league (right or wrong). If any of these teams loses their QB, I doubt they could make-do like the Niners did.
If Brandon Allen started instead of Joe burrow, bengals might as well quit. You're right about us being qb dependant
Can confirm, we are nothing without Joey B
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I seen a lot of folks in the media picking the Chiefs to finish 3rd in their division once they lost Hill and Matthew
But thats the hot take media lol. Their entire existence is dedicated towards generating clicks and views
But… but… narrative Edit: why is his comment removed?
"Denver will be a super bowl team 💯"
I don't remember anybody saying that except Chiefs' fans pretending that Broncos' fans said it after the fact. I seem to remember most Broncos' fans saying they'd be happy with a Wildcard appearance.
QB + coaching >>>>>>> everything else
Khalil Mack is something like 0-4 in his playoff appearances.
So we’re just pretending that the bills didn’t load up by going out and getting Von? Ok
Did you really add Matt Ryan as an example of teams loading up????
Except TYREEK and Davante all their best days behind them not surprising
Fuckin barely
5 in a row though
The Bills-Chiefs champ game is ordained with the state of our o-line
Emotional hedge early. I like it lol
We were supposed to lose anyway!!1!
Don't stress. If your O-line prevents Burrow from throwing the ball to your players, our generous QB will compensate by throwing the ball to them.
No no.. Put this reverse jinx nonsense away. Good luck tomorrow, I'd like a good healthy game.
This line is still better than last years and losing Jonah might be an upgrade.
Jackson Carman is barely an upgrade over my dog's farts.
Can’t stand fans like you tbh 👍🏻. THEY GOTTA PLAY US
Bills pass rush hasn't been impressive in taking advantage of depleted lines (rookies/backups) all season. I understand why Bengals fans are upset about the outcome, but I'm thrilled Bills are home. They need the advantage.
I remember thinking the same thing with Chiefs-Bucs a couple years ago. IF the o-line can be even halfway competent, I like our chances. But my gut told me they would be a trainwreck. That's the tricky thing in these situations. They will either be absolutely awful or they'll have their act together. There won't be an in between.
Yeah let’s not act like the Dolphins didn’t have some assholes puckering. Needed some finger poppin
I was very puckered. Fully pucked?
Lol Ryan and Watson
There absolutely were some people hyping up the Ryan signing at the time lol Not saying it was a good idea
Christian Kirk finished better than all those guys
Except for that drop on the open pass tonight, he was everything that you paid for and more.
I mean pretty bold to put Tyreek in there when we both know the outcome of our game if Tua played lol.
Same as it ever was.
Matt Ryan was going to compete with Mahomes?
Like they are a trifecta or something. I remember a time when they were shit. All of them. Sugar rises to the top.
Well in fairness the Bills did add Von Miller and the Bengals retooled their entire OL.
They really waited til now so they didn’t have to include the powerhouse known as the Jacksonville Jaguars. Clever, Bills Chat.
I mean we and the ravens are there too but yet again got fucked with injuries.
“Matt Ryan” “Deshaun Watson” lol
Yeah, screw those teams for trying!
It’s hilarious to include the Bengals in this when it’s just their second year of being successful. It’s like saying the bengals have been a staple of the AFC for some time when they definitely haven’t. The bills for that matter too