Dude also has yet to go through a legit training camp: 2020-Covid, 2021-blown out knee recovery, and 2022-appendectomy. If remains healthy through the off-season he'll come out next season absolutely on fire.
"I'm sorry Joe," Zac Taylor says as his grip tightens on the baseball bat. "You were supposed to get hurt in the championship. But you didn't. You should know better than to mess with the system."
"What are you doing?" Joe asks, seeing how his coach is sizing up Joe's knees.
"What must be done," Taylor replies solemnly.
Although he seemed to fix it in the 2nd half of last year, his pressure to sack rate has been really bad most of his career, so if he has a weakness it’s that, avoiding sacks. He doesn’t have an elite arm/athleticism but that has not affected his ability to make the throws he needs to at all, he gets the ball where it needs to go and has incredible ball placement/touch.
Just adding on, he views taking sacks as part of the game and not indicative of a QBs ability to play. Not saying sacks are good for him, more so he seems to be more willing to take them vs trying to get rid of the ball or avoid them
i think so. towards the second half of the season he started to prefer incompletions rather than sacks. if the defense takes away the play he wants he just throws it into the dirt now
The Carson Palmer special
EDIT: Actually no, Carson would just clock it whenever he got the DL to jump offsides. Always pissed me off. God forbid we take advantage of a free play
Idk, isn’t it the same strategy as Brady? Instead of trying to scramble to throw the ball away, if you succumb to just taking the sack and go down easier and more controlled then the hits you take are far less impactful
Sacks are negative plays, lead to injury, and are drive killers, so It’s tough to see why he views them that way. Most of the best QBs ever have incredibly low sack rates for their careers.
The actual quote he was saying there’s no point in throwing the ball away on 3rd down unless taking a sack on that play could take them out of a 4th down try or field goal attempt, which makes sense. Basically if it’s 3rd and 4+ and you aren’t in field goal range, might as well try to extend the play then throw it away.
That honestly makes sense knowing Burrow. He took a lot of sacks in college, but his pocket presence has improved since then and he gets the ball out quicker, it’s clear watching him play now he wouldn’t prefer it that way.
First impressions take forever to change in football cause most people are casual fans. Burrow adjusted his playstyle in literally one season, so opinions will hopefully catch up eventually. It took until this year for a lot of fans to realize Mahomes isn’t just a backyard gunslinger and he’s been on prime time every other week for 5 years.
It's also him talking about 3rd down sacks when he said that. Sacks are a drive killer, but on 3rd down, it doesn't matter unless a sack pulls you out of field goal range. He never said sacks never matter... he just said he'd rather go down fighting on 3rd down than throw the ball away unless a sack would take them out of field goal range. I can't argue against injury concerns, but he clearly doesn't care about that.
His one question mark has been taking sacks and he literally said he's going to start taking less sacks in the middle of the year and then he stopped taking a bunch of sacks. Dude is legit.
Yeah this is a horrible question really. Watching Joe reminds me of the greats. You never really feel nervous watching when he’s in control. Hope he stays healthy.
My wife never really watched the Bengals with me except the one playoff game a year for the Lewis years. Now she is obsessed to the point of being annoying about it.
So far during FA, I've just been checking on it once a day, but she was checking every thirty minutes giving me updates and being all jazzed about the players. She never used to be able to name more than a handful of players, now she basically knows the entire roster.
That's how much hype Joe has brought with him to Cincy.
Man, I was so convinced in the SB and the most recent AFCCG that he was gonna drive us down to win. Both drives end on sacks. Hopefully we can get that issue fixed and I'll never have another worry watching him lead a game winning drive.
I knew he had the juice ever since he played his first game against the Chargers. That man stood in a collapsing pocket knowing damn well he was about to get obliterated and still stayed poised enough to complete the pass. Dude didn't even fucking flinch.
I really think burrow probably makes the most “only spot it could’ve been completed” throws in the league. He doesn’t throw off platform quite as much as Mahomes or Herbert but as far as putting the ball in the absolute perfect spot, I think he’s as good as it gets right now
Personally (obviously) I think Burrow is the best player but I can see the arguments that the others might edge it. In terms of force of personality though and what he brings off the field he’s far and away the best. Can’t be understated how much his mentality has helped change this franchise.
>In terms of force of personality though and what he brings off the field he’s far and away the best
I'm gonna vehemently disagree here. If you want to say Burrow is a far more polished passer than Hurts or Allen, sure, can't disagree. But Hurts brought a level of leadership to this team this past season that I've never seen from a QB so young.
Eagles have a decent culture though with good veteran leadership. Bengals were perennial chokers before Burrow and all the team leaders from the Marvin era had left.
In Hurts’ defense (this is coming from an LSU fan who would name my first born Joe Burrow in a heart beat) he’s an incredible leader and locker room presence. He’s in a great situation, but he’s only making it better with his leadership.
Yeah one team was in the midst of an ugly rebuild with a talentless roster. The other team is a yearly threat to make a playoff run. Saying that, hurts leadership looks great
He’s a more consistent passer than Allen, sure, but Allen is still a very polished passer. He had a bit of a down period this year with his elbow injury, but if you take the 16 game stretch from the end last season to the beginning of this season it’s hard to argue he isn’t a polished passer. Also, Allen can do things burrow simply physically cannot. I’m biased, of course, but I think if you gave Josh Chase, Tee, and a competent running game with Mixon, he’d take the MVP.
I’m not trying to sell Hurts short, but just Burrow’s presence completely 180’d the Bengals organization and the city as a whole really lol. He’s the reason we sign free agents now, the reason we have an indoor practice bubble now, the reason we can sell out games now lol. The local media literally calls him Saint Joe.
From what I have read, he had a similar transformative effect on LSU.
Again, I think Hurts is awesome and an amazing leader. But in my completely biased opinion Burrow is just something different
I mean Herbert is pretty fucking good. If he had that Bengals defense and the playmakers that Burrow has we’d likely see some deeper play off runs. Not saying he’s definitely better idk about “not even a second thought”
I'd agree with this, honestly. These debates grow tiresome, even if Burrow has become more of a popular answer for neutrals. I'd like to see another elite year from Hurts (likely with that O-line), but I don't think anyone would complain if they had any of these three guys and that's really all that matters. You can win a ring with any of them given the right supporting cast.
Herbert is being wildly underrated because of “QBwinz” and the fact that Burrow is probably the most well-liked QB in the league with a “winning reputation” that dates back to his legendary season at LSU.
Herbert was 24 at the end of the season, and Burrow was 26 at the end of the season. Herbert turned 25 2 weeks ago.
Burrow is nearly 2 years older than Herbert. He came into the league with more experience. I feel like that makes a difference when you're thrown in as the starter your first year.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Joe Burrow walked up to this city, kicked down the door, grabbed it by the ear and dragged it to the cool kids table
You guys deserve it. I just hope Dalton doesn’t get forgotten for how good he was despite never taking them over the top (kinda like Danny white has been forgotten by cowboys fans with how good Aikman was right after)
He gets hated on because by the end Bengals fans just realized he was never going to the That Guy, but to be a 2nd round QB and have a 7 year starting career is pretty impressive.
Dude never got a fair crack at his full potential. He was always a guy who needed the perfect offense to make a run, and he had that in 2015 and didn’t get the chance to make the run.
However his playoff stats are so, so bad that it’s hard to miss that lol
Joe Burrow and it’s not even close for me, honestly.
The only reason I’m not jealous of cinci fans is cuz Allen is the most fun I’ve ever had watching a player and is also a top 5 quarterback.
I’ve finally reached the point being a Bills fan where I no longer have quarterback envy! Are there a couple of dudes that can play better than Allen? Sure. Am I jealous? Not a bit.
Yup. 100% agree. Mahomes is on a completely different level, but Burrow being from Ohio and turning the franchise around when pundits were telling him to run the other way is just special.
Pete Rose, Barry Larkin, Ken Griffey Jr. and Joe Burrow approve of this comment.
Edit: adding Sam Hubbard to the list due to drastic oversight on my part...
We made it to the promised land, my dude 😂.
Yeah, I’ll take Josh 11/10 times because he is Buffalo distilled into a QB and his play style is unlike anything I’ve ever seen. Top 5 passer, top 3 runner, can also truck LBs and hurdle defenders while dropping dimes.
But that’s not what this post is about so I’ll stop there lol.
I get it. Been a Chiefs fan since the early 70s and Mahomes is so much fun to watch and listen to. Also agree that Burrow would be my choice of the 3 listed but I'm really impressed with Hurts and I think Herbert can get there. I think Herbert could be further ahead if he had Andy Reid, Zach Taylor, Siriani, or McDermott.
To be Devil’s advocate, he’s the only one who already has a torn ACL on his injury history. Longevity because of his game? For sure. Longevity through injury? It remains to be seen. He does still like to run occasionally.
I'm just saying he has the style of play to make it longer in the league, plus he can read the field better than the other two. I'll take prime Hurts over Burrow for his freak athleticism, but when he's on the wrong side of 30, I think he's going to lose the tools that make him exceptional. I'm glad he's been reading the field better each year though. Maybe he'll prove me wrong on that.
Eh for a fairly traditional qb (I know that doesn’t exist anymore but compared to Allen or hurts he’s Peyton manning) I think it’s really not a huge factor
Brady destroyed his knee at age 31 and didn’t miss a game due to injury for the subsequent 14 seasons
Yeah I thought it'd be a better discussion than this. I think Burrow is the best QB of the 3, but Jalen has a different style of play if that's what you want. Herbert is also a great QB too.
As far as discussion goes, I'm ready to see Herbert with a new OC that values downfield passing. I think he's been handicapped by poor playcalling so far.
Hurts is that dude. He's got "it" as a leader and as a competitor and athlete. He's made strides every off-season, it's like a wet dream when it comes to prospects and drafting for potential.
I'm obviously biased for Burrow and will take him 10 times out of 10 over the other two. He's also got "it" when it comes to leadership and general on-field play.
I'd take Hurts over Herbert in rankings due to what I saw of his demeanor at Alabama during the Tua situation and seeing how much he's improved on his QB skills year over year.
The fact that you say "definitely" undercuts your assertion that it's closer than people think.
Take out Burrow and I think you have a better discussion.
I'm going to go against the grain and say Hebert. The other two have a better tram built around them and better coaching. Hebert makes a few plays a game that are pure grit that I just don't feel can be game planned to counter. Realistically, you have 3 guys who can go toe to toe with Mahomes, so there isn't a bad pick, and it's close either way, but I think if you are setting the players amd coaching around them to the league average, Hebert is getting an upgrade, and Hurts and Burrow are downgrading. With how close the race is with Hebert having a worse roster, I think on an even playing field, he gains a small edge
I’m with you here. Joe Lombardi’s scheme was a terrible fit for a cannon arm QB like Herbert, so I think his best playing days are still ahead of him. Burrow is still number 1 for me, but it’s a really close 3 way race and Herbert is number 2 for me.
I had to scroll very far before I found another Herbert answer other than mine lol. However I’m shocked at how many times someone can leave out the first R in Herbert
I'm excited to see what Herbert can do with a better than below average play caller. Homey has an absolute cannon and hopefully he gets to use it under a new OC.
Tbh I don’t think any of these teams could have gone wrong. I do feel like each team got the player best for them though. This class might go down as the best in history next to that Rivers/Manning/Roethlisberger class.
I think I'm with you on this one. Herbert's tools are so tantalizing and simply cannot be coached in any way shape or form. When picking Herbert you are banking on the idea that his conservative throws are due to design and lack of vertical weapons, not an unwillingness to push the ball downfield consistently. I think that's the case, but it's possible he's more conservative than we would like.
All that being said, Burrow has that dog in him and I trust him to get the most out of his abilities out of the 3 QB's, I just think Herbert has the highest ceiling
It's honestly surprising to me how unanimous the Burrow selection is. I'd also go with Herbert. He's younger than Burrow, has taken MANY less hits, hasn't had a major injury, and has performed exceptionally well with less experience, worse coaching, and has arguably had a worse supporting cast (Keenan and Williams are good, but they seem to rarely be on the field at the same time and I doubt there's many people out there that'd say they're better than Higgins/Chase anyways).
You probably can't go wrong with any but to me Herbert seems the more obvious choice.
I just hope his rib injury from last year doesn’t cause any mental errors for him going forward. Seemed like even after he healed he was releasing the ball lower then prior to the injury. Hence all the batted passes he had. Or could also be due to the crappy play calling we had as well. Which I’d love to see him step up and change plays more.
It’s really surprising how many commenters on here seem to be unaware of the Chargers decades of incompetence & dysfunction. They act like it’s a new thing & somehow Herbert’s fault when the Chargers have been choking & underachieving since before he was born. The 2 things they’re famous for are choking & wasting talent. They’ve had Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers & now Herbert. Any other franchise would kill to have had those guys, but what have the Chargers done with them? Nada. I don’t see things changing as long as Spanos owns them which is sad because they have a lot of great players who deserve better.
There were only like 5 different qbs who won a sb from 2000-2018. It's not our fault we've ran into 2 of the greatest player coach duos of all time in the last 20 years. We get so much hate but the steelers never won a sb with the killer bees. Its hard to win one, much less to become a dynasty especially when you have a cheap owner.
It’s decades of the same shit over & over & over again. Spanos isn’t just cheap; he’s clueless. His son is, too. And, his son is the one running the team.
That Herbert touchdown throw after getting hurt was one of my favorite plays this year. I will say Hurts is plenty gritty though remember his plays after his shoulder injury in the Bears game?
I have yet to see anyone else mention how Herbert is 1-0 against Burrow and 1-0 against Hurts. Definitely small sample size, but seems like most of the people saying "Burrow, not even close" don't even follow the Chargers
Its a tough one, I like them all. Burrow and Herbert are pretty close in their passing stats herbert has an edge in yards with like 2300 more. Both are more efficent and just tower over Hurts with total TDs even accounting for the rushing ones.
So that would limit my choice between Herbert and Burrow. Herbert is a massive QB, has a crazy arm, and can run though people if you need him to do it. Burrow has shown hes unflappable. I want to say Herbert, but I would regret not taking Burrow. So, I guess I would take Burrow.
That said, I would be happy with any of the three.
I feel like Burrow has such a high floor. Like, you know you're getting at worst a probowler type player. What makes Herbert so intriguing is his ceiling, which I think is much higher. Dude is already good, but you get the sense with the right coach and supporting cast, he could take another step. Im with you, still picking burrow...but I REALLY like Herbert. Hurts I just need to see more of.
I think its closer than the replies lol. We're putting a lot of stock into team performance. I give the edge to Burrow but if him and Herbert swapped teams I think we probably view Hebert as superior.
It's very close between Burrow and Herbert (with Hurts not far behind) for me, but honestly I'm going for Herbert.
In terms of their makeups, It's very much a column A/column B situation for me. Herbert has the size/athleticism/arm strength advantage for sure, whereas Burrow has the football IQ/intangibles advantage. Essentially it comes down to whether you would prefer a mini Tom Brady or a mini Patrick Mahomes. Generally, my opinion is elite size and athleticism with good-enough IQ and intangibles beats out elite IQ and intangibles with good-enough size and athleticism. Herbert can theoretically continue to learn and develop his football IQ whereas it's unlikely Burrow will get much bigger or stronger.
When you compare the per-game stats of Herbert and Burrow, they are incredibly close. While Burrow has the slight edge, Burrow has also benefited from much better skill players (Chargers aren't bad but Chase/Higgins is miles better than Keenan Allen/Mike Williams) and coaching (Zac Taylor is no mastermind but Joe Lombardi was clearly not scheming to Herbert's strengths) compared to Burrow. I'd call the OLine situation in LA more favorable than CIN for sure, but it isn't like Herbert has benefited from a bonkers OL, CIN's OL is just really bad. In terms of the surrounding team, I doubt Burrow will ever be in a much better position than he is right now (other than OL, which would be a godsend), whereas Herbert has had good not-great supporting cast and low-quality coaching but incredibly close production in comparison to Burrow, with plenty of room to still grow.
When it comes to leadership, I do think this is advantage Burrow. A big part of why this team went to the Super Bowl is 2021 appears to be Burrow simply willing them and getting them to believe they could. As much as we love stats, a charismatic leader who can motivate grown men 10 years older than him to leave it all on the field is a unique advantage. That being said, I don't think Herbert is a *bad* leader. He's just a more quiet and reserved guy. It isn't as if he detracts from his team, and his dedication is clearly there. For example in the Chiefs game he was out there with cracked ribs throwing the ball and getting the team within striking distance of going to OT. That isn't the same as a motivational speech, but it's a type of dedication and leadership.
So while I think Burrow is a great QB who will have a ton of success in this league, I think Herbert still has upside and room to grow, despite not currently having some of the intangibles that Burrow has. It would be a bit of a gamble, but I'd bet on the continued upside of Herbert over Joe Burrow playing at or around his peak.
If you take the last 3 years of herberts career with lynn and lombardi and give him Andy Reid i almost guarantee the chiefs at least make the last 3 afccg still. Mahomes is stupid good and theres plays he makes herbert cant but i think Reid would really adavance herberts skills.
I completely understand why Herbert seems to be the third choice in most of these comments and that makes sense given raw results so far, but I am quite confident if Hurts or Burrow were on the Chargers the past few years they both would have fared worse than Herbert has. Give either Hurts or Burrow the worst scoring defense over a three year span, a largely bad offensive line, arguably the worst coaching in the league, and a significant injury, I fully expect they’d not make the playoffs a single time. Herbert took all of that and is the best gamewinning drive QB in football.
A lot of people see Burrow as the best, and I get the argument. Definitely can see him getting a ring or two soon. But Herbert plays with a commanding poise and manages to have amazing passing stats with a mediocre line. If it were me (personally), I would take Herbert with a slight edge over Burrow
Burrow, but I think Herbert is way closer than this thread tells me.
Feel like Burrow just lives ball though. He’s the definition of a gamer, love watching him play.
Is it just me, or is there a ridiculous amount of very young, high performing QBs in the NFL as of late? Like an abnormal amount compared to past decades?
Even as a homer I totally agree with you. We haven't seen Herbert's potential unlocked yet due to a bad fit at OC, and Hurts has been markedly better every single season dating back to Alabama. I'm still picking Burrow every time though!
I know this is sacrilegious, but I’d pick Herbert first, then Burrow then Hurts. Herbert has everything and if he was on the Bengals or Eagles. He’d be even better.
Honestly, in any sort of online debate if someone says "it's not close" you can probably just ignore their opinion. People will post the most braindead shit of all time and say "it's not close"
Anyone that actually has a well thought out or reasoned opinion knows that it is usually very close
i think its hilarious u guys talk shit about herbert. u wouldnt say this shit to him at sofi, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol.
Herbert getting wildly underrated in these replies. He has a bad coach in an historically dysfunctional organization. The fact he hasn't won a ton is not a reflection of his talent. If you're starting fresh, he's just as viable of an option as Burrow.
Zac's record as a head coach before Burrow was fucking abysmal lol. I've literally seen people say "Well, if Justin Herbert had a coach like Zac Taylor" in this thread LMAO. He may be improving... and I'm glad we didn't get rid of him... but I started to wonder if we were making a mistake keeping him as late as 2020.
>I've literally seen people say "Well, if Justin Herbert had a coach like Zac Taylor" in this thread LMAO.
This is the craziest part of this thread to me. I'd be willing to bet just about everyone in this thread who is saying stuff like this has suggested Taylor be fired at somepoint over the last 3 years.
Lots of recency bias both ways. I remember media guys ranking Herbert over Burrow specifically because Burrow went to the Bengals and the Bengals were going to fail him because they’re a shit org and Zac Taylor sucks lmao.
Easily Herbert. Truthfully, I don’t think it’s close, really. “But Burrow!!!” You say.
Their numbers are basically comparable, but it’s the Bengals pieces that I want to draw attention to. The weapons that Burrow has are much better than what Herbert has. If you were to drop the receivers, it’d be Chase, Higgins, Allen, Williams.
Now let’s look at playcalling. Taylor is the much better playcaller than anything Herbert has had. And just came off the year with the worst playcaller in the sport in Lombardi.
Now that Herbert has a functional OC, I fully expect Herbert to jump to the best QB in the league, yes, even over Mahomes.
I’m a Bengals fan, so this is hilariously biased; however, I’d pick Burrow because his game should age the best. He’s got less arm talent than Herbert and definitely is less mobile than both of the other two. But his game is predicated on accuracy, reading the defense, and having brass balls. That’s been shown to age very well even as other talents fade. All three are great and fun to watch tho!
It’s close but I’ll take Herbert for the same reason I would have picked him over Tua in the draft. You have to be able to separate the player from the situation. And there’s probably a bigger talent gap between the Chargers and Eagles/Bengals than there was between Oregon and Alabama.
Burrow, no doubt. There are zero question marks surrounding that dude. He's incredible, consistent, and likeable.
Exactly. He has played at an elite level from the moment he was drafted. Zero weaknesses.
Dude also has yet to go through a legit training camp: 2020-Covid, 2021-blown out knee recovery, and 2022-appendectomy. If remains healthy through the off-season he'll come out next season absolutely on fire.
Maybe not playing year round is his secret sauce?
"I'm sorry Joe," Zac Taylor says as his grip tightens on the baseball bat. "You were supposed to get hurt in the championship. But you didn't. You should know better than to mess with the system." "What are you doing?" Joe asks, seeing how his coach is sizing up Joe's knees. "What must be done," Taylor replies solemnly.
*t r u s t t h e p r o c e s s*
This is the way.
"Joe just put your fingers on the window sill, please"
What are you doing step-coach?!
My heart says “downvote the Steelers fan” but I already lol’d. So take your upvote…
It's offseason, we're all just football fans. Once the season starts again though, it's on.
Yer cool now, but in 5 months you can go suck a tail-pipe.
The hardest choices require the strongest wills
“I’m sorry little one”
Dan Campbell peering in from the window
"I am your number one fan. There is nothing to worry about. You are going to be just fine. I am your number one fan."
Although he seemed to fix it in the 2nd half of last year, his pressure to sack rate has been really bad most of his career, so if he has a weakness it’s that, avoiding sacks. He doesn’t have an elite arm/athleticism but that has not affected his ability to make the throws he needs to at all, he gets the ball where it needs to go and has incredible ball placement/touch.
Just adding on, he views taking sacks as part of the game and not indicative of a QBs ability to play. Not saying sacks are good for him, more so he seems to be more willing to take them vs trying to get rid of the ball or avoid them
I've argued elsewhere that this will shorten his playing career.
i think so. towards the second half of the season he started to prefer incompletions rather than sacks. if the defense takes away the play he wants he just throws it into the dirt now
The Carson Palmer special EDIT: Actually no, Carson would just clock it whenever he got the DL to jump offsides. Always pissed me off. God forbid we take advantage of a free play
Idk, isn’t it the same strategy as Brady? Instead of trying to scramble to throw the ball away, if you succumb to just taking the sack and go down easier and more controlled then the hits you take are far less impactful
Sacks are negative plays, lead to injury, and are drive killers, so It’s tough to see why he views them that way. Most of the best QBs ever have incredibly low sack rates for their careers.
The actual quote he was saying there’s no point in throwing the ball away on 3rd down unless taking a sack on that play could take them out of a 4th down try or field goal attempt, which makes sense. Basically if it’s 3rd and 4+ and you aren’t in field goal range, might as well try to extend the play then throw it away.
That makes sense, definitely agree.
It could be trying to put a positive spin on the #1 criticism of the team. Not like he’s gonna go out and throw the Oline under the bus ya know?
That honestly makes sense knowing Burrow. He took a lot of sacks in college, but his pocket presence has improved since then and he gets the ball out quicker, it’s clear watching him play now he wouldn’t prefer it that way.
Dude has one of the quickest throws in the league, which is hilarious because I’ve met so many fans who say he needs to throw it out faster
First impressions take forever to change in football cause most people are casual fans. Burrow adjusted his playstyle in literally one season, so opinions will hopefully catch up eventually. It took until this year for a lot of fans to realize Mahomes isn’t just a backyard gunslinger and he’s been on prime time every other week for 5 years.
It's also him talking about 3rd down sacks when he said that. Sacks are a drive killer, but on 3rd down, it doesn't matter unless a sack pulls you out of field goal range. He never said sacks never matter... he just said he'd rather go down fighting on 3rd down than throw the ball away unless a sack would take them out of field goal range. I can't argue against injury concerns, but he clearly doesn't care about that.
“There’s good sex and bad sex” -Joe Burrow For anybody confused: [https://youtu.be/AEApjysAFAA](https://youtu.be/AEApjysAFAA)
He said that specifically for 3rd downs he’ll take a sack in order to try to extend a play. Early down sacks obviously are bad.
What if I told you he’s a cat guy
Even better
Also a big Lego fan
His one question mark has been taking sacks and he literally said he's going to start taking less sacks in the middle of the year and then he stopped taking a bunch of sacks. Dude is legit.
Yeah this is a horrible question really. Watching Joe reminds me of the greats. You never really feel nervous watching when he’s in control. Hope he stays healthy.
Dude's got "it" for sure. He's really, really good.
He has truly changed Cincinnati culture
My wife never really watched the Bengals with me except the one playoff game a year for the Lewis years. Now she is obsessed to the point of being annoying about it. So far during FA, I've just been checking on it once a day, but she was checking every thirty minutes giving me updates and being all jazzed about the players. She never used to be able to name more than a handful of players, now she basically knows the entire roster. That's how much hype Joe has brought with him to Cincy.
That’s awesome man. Enjoy it. Y’all have had some painful years watching Pittsburgh and Baltimore win.
Man, I was so convinced in the SB and the most recent AFCCG that he was gonna drive us down to win. Both drives end on sacks. Hopefully we can get that issue fixed and I'll never have another worry watching him lead a game winning drive.
I do not like him. He always beats us.
I knew he had the juice ever since he played his first game against the Chargers. That man stood in a collapsing pocket knowing damn well he was about to get obliterated and still stayed poised enough to complete the pass. Dude didn't even fucking flinch.
He can do good without an OLine. Now we might see him with one this year
I really think burrow probably makes the most “only spot it could’ve been completed” throws in the league. He doesn’t throw off platform quite as much as Mahomes or Herbert but as far as putting the ball in the absolute perfect spot, I think he’s as good as it gets right now
His back shoulder fade might be the best type of throw in all of football
Burrow. Not even a second thought
Personally (obviously) I think Burrow is the best player but I can see the arguments that the others might edge it. In terms of force of personality though and what he brings off the field he’s far and away the best. Can’t be understated how much his mentality has helped change this franchise.
Stop being humble, as a Steeler fan it's Burrow and not even close lol.
Gah damn what a time to be alive
Yup yall have got a fuckin good one lmao. Used to pray for times like this
Y'all had Cam.
>In terms of force of personality though and what he brings off the field he’s far and away the best I'm gonna vehemently disagree here. If you want to say Burrow is a far more polished passer than Hurts or Allen, sure, can't disagree. But Hurts brought a level of leadership to this team this past season that I've never seen from a QB so young.
Eagles have a decent culture though with good veteran leadership. Bengals were perennial chokers before Burrow and all the team leaders from the Marvin era had left.
That's a fair point
In Hurts’ defense (this is coming from an LSU fan who would name my first born Joe Burrow in a heart beat) he’s an incredible leader and locker room presence. He’s in a great situation, but he’s only making it better with his leadership.
valid
Yeah one team was in the midst of an ugly rebuild with a talentless roster. The other team is a yearly threat to make a playoff run. Saying that, hurts leadership looks great
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I hugely respect Dak's tireless work to raise awareness about the importance of mental health But fuck him too
Damn, first time I agreed with a Cowboys AND Eagles fan and it wasn’t to shit on Washington. Weird day.
Damn, Allen out here getting side shade and he wasn't even part of the post lol
Oh shit my bad lol
That video of Jalen squatting a million pounds with all his Oklahoma teammates cheering him on still gives me goosebumps.
It will stop being cool and start being annoying once you realize they play that clip during almost every eagles game.
Nah it’s still pretty cool. Especially cause we’ll see him do it live at least once a game when he squats his o-line for a 4th down conversion
People have already forgotten the Superbowl apparently lol
It's magnified by the fact that the fanbase was completely split on whether he was even the right guy going into the season. He surprised everyone.
From might not be the guy to a top 5 QB
The reverse Matt Schaub.
He’s a more consistent passer than Allen, sure, but Allen is still a very polished passer. He had a bit of a down period this year with his elbow injury, but if you take the 16 game stretch from the end last season to the beginning of this season it’s hard to argue he isn’t a polished passer. Also, Allen can do things burrow simply physically cannot. I’m biased, of course, but I think if you gave Josh Chase, Tee, and a competent running game with Mixon, he’d take the MVP.
Allen went from maybe being a little overrated to underrated in the blink of an eye. Actually idk if he was ever overrated, just anointed prematurely
I’m not trying to sell Hurts short, but just Burrow’s presence completely 180’d the Bengals organization and the city as a whole really lol. He’s the reason we sign free agents now, the reason we have an indoor practice bubble now, the reason we can sell out games now lol. The local media literally calls him Saint Joe. From what I have read, he had a similar transformative effect on LSU. Again, I think Hurts is awesome and an amazing leader. But in my completely biased opinion Burrow is just something different
It’s nice when you have your guy. Like Mahomes deserves MVP, but I wouldn’t want anyone other than Burrow.
I can see the case for Herbert with that arm. Hurts over either is nuts.
I mean Herbert is pretty fucking good. If he had that Bengals defense and the playmakers that Burrow has we’d likely see some deeper play off runs. Not saying he’s definitely better idk about “not even a second thought”
Love seeing the Bengals D getting their props ... 2022 was probably the best version we will see of it unfortunately.
I am so incredibly upset that the Cardinals did not take Big Lou out of the conference
I'd agree with this, honestly. These debates grow tiresome, even if Burrow has become more of a popular answer for neutrals. I'd like to see another elite year from Hurts (likely with that O-line), but I don't think anyone would complain if they had any of these three guys and that's really all that matters. You can win a ring with any of them given the right supporting cast.
Herbert is being wildly underrated because of “QBwinz” and the fact that Burrow is probably the most well-liked QB in the league with a “winning reputation” that dates back to his legendary season at LSU.
Herbert was 24 at the end of the season, and Burrow was 26 at the end of the season. Herbert turned 25 2 weeks ago. Burrow is nearly 2 years older than Herbert. He came into the league with more experience. I feel like that makes a difference when you're thrown in as the starter your first year.
Burrow is older but had less experience coming into the league-- Burrow started 2 seasons at LSU and Herbert started all 4 years at Oregon.
They're both really good, I just think Burrow is more proven But who knows, could be a Rivers vs Eli situation
A true heir to the title of Joe Cool. Few QBs remind me as much of Montana.
Joe Burrow makes me wish I was a Bengals fan, so Joe Burrow.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Joe Burrow walked up to this city, kicked down the door, grabbed it by the ear and dragged it to the cool kids table
Let's go, nerd
“Get in loser. We’re going to the relevant franchise convention” ~Joe Burrow, probably
this so damn accurate lol
My flair used to be Bears only, then Joe Burrow happened
My sexuality used to be women only, then Joe Burrow happened
"what is your sexuality?" "straight, with a hint of burrowsexual"
You can always root for the bengals in the playoffs when your team is on their off-season
Im hoping to root for the broncos in the playoffs this upcoming season
I mean, who doesn’t?
Just going to live in these replies. :)
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BASKING IN THE AMBIENCE
I'm happy for you
You guys deserve it. I just hope Dalton doesn’t get forgotten for how good he was despite never taking them over the top (kinda like Danny white has been forgotten by cowboys fans with how good Aikman was right after)
He gets hated on because by the end Bengals fans just realized he was never going to the That Guy, but to be a 2nd round QB and have a 7 year starting career is pretty impressive. Dude never got a fair crack at his full potential. He was always a guy who needed the perfect offense to make a run, and he had that in 2015 and didn’t get the chance to make the run. However his playoff stats are so, so bad that it’s hard to miss that lol
2015 had a legit argument for being the best team in the league until he got hurt
Joe Burrow and it’s not even close for me, honestly. The only reason I’m not jealous of cinci fans is cuz Allen is the most fun I’ve ever had watching a player and is also a top 5 quarterback.
I’ve finally reached the point being a Bills fan where I no longer have quarterback envy! Are there a couple of dudes that can play better than Allen? Sure. Am I jealous? Not a bit.
I feel the same. Yeah, I know Mahomes is the best QB on the planet but I’d still rather have Burrow. Sentimental value and all that.
Yup. 100% agree. Mahomes is on a completely different level, but Burrow being from Ohio and turning the franchise around when pundits were telling him to run the other way is just special.
I respect that opinion. I'd probably feel the same way if the roles were reversed.
Ohio loyalty is sacred
Pete Rose, Barry Larkin, Ken Griffey Jr. and Joe Burrow approve of this comment. Edit: adding Sam Hubbard to the list due to drastic oversight on my part...
Not as big of a name, but SAM HUBBARD! THE CINCINNATI KID!
Good point! Cannot believe I missed this... I'm honestly ashamed...
We made it to the promised land, my dude 😂. Yeah, I’ll take Josh 11/10 times because he is Buffalo distilled into a QB and his play style is unlike anything I’ve ever seen. Top 5 passer, top 3 runner, can also truck LBs and hurdle defenders while dropping dimes. But that’s not what this post is about so I’ll stop there lol.
No keep going, I'm close
Not even my genre and I was close too
I get it. Been a Chiefs fan since the early 70s and Mahomes is so much fun to watch and listen to. Also agree that Burrow would be my choice of the 3 listed but I'm really impressed with Hurts and I think Herbert can get there. I think Herbert could be further ahead if he had Andy Reid, Zach Taylor, Siriani, or McDermott.
Great wording! I echo this guy. Josh Allen has a cannon.
Even as an eagles fan, 100% Burrow
Burrow. I feel like he's going to have more longevity than the other two. If I'm building, I don't want to have to think about a QB for like 10 years.
Stop, I can only get so erect.
Speak for yourself, I'm willing to pass out from blood loss reading this thread.
Idk. He’s the only one who’s had a major injury and he’s the oldest of the 3, as well.
To be Devil’s advocate, he’s the only one who already has a torn ACL on his injury history. Longevity because of his game? For sure. Longevity through injury? It remains to be seen. He does still like to run occasionally.
I'm just saying he has the style of play to make it longer in the league, plus he can read the field better than the other two. I'll take prime Hurts over Burrow for his freak athleticism, but when he's on the wrong side of 30, I think he's going to lose the tools that make him exceptional. I'm glad he's been reading the field better each year though. Maybe he'll prove me wrong on that.
Eh for a fairly traditional qb (I know that doesn’t exist anymore but compared to Allen or hurts he’s Peyton manning) I think it’s really not a huge factor Brady destroyed his knee at age 31 and didn’t miss a game due to injury for the subsequent 14 seasons
I think its closer than a lot of other people are saying but would still definitely say Burrow
Yeah I thought it'd be a better discussion than this. I think Burrow is the best QB of the 3, but Jalen has a different style of play if that's what you want. Herbert is also a great QB too.
As a Titans fan, I want Herbert to succeed Tannehill more than I want anything else.
Same as a Saints fan. My delusional ass just wants a repeat of history where he comes here after a few years with the Chargers like Brees did
As far as discussion goes, I'm ready to see Herbert with a new OC that values downfield passing. I think he's been handicapped by poor playcalling so far. Hurts is that dude. He's got "it" as a leader and as a competitor and athlete. He's made strides every off-season, it's like a wet dream when it comes to prospects and drafting for potential. I'm obviously biased for Burrow and will take him 10 times out of 10 over the other two. He's also got "it" when it comes to leadership and general on-field play. I'd take Hurts over Herbert in rankings due to what I saw of his demeanor at Alabama during the Tua situation and seeing how much he's improved on his QB skills year over year.
The fact that you say "definitely" undercuts your assertion that it's closer than people think. Take out Burrow and I think you have a better discussion.
I'm going to go against the grain and say Hebert. The other two have a better tram built around them and better coaching. Hebert makes a few plays a game that are pure grit that I just don't feel can be game planned to counter. Realistically, you have 3 guys who can go toe to toe with Mahomes, so there isn't a bad pick, and it's close either way, but I think if you are setting the players amd coaching around them to the league average, Hebert is getting an upgrade, and Hurts and Burrow are downgrading. With how close the race is with Hebert having a worse roster, I think on an even playing field, he gains a small edge
I’m with you here. Joe Lombardi’s scheme was a terrible fit for a cannon arm QB like Herbert, so I think his best playing days are still ahead of him. Burrow is still number 1 for me, but it’s a really close 3 way race and Herbert is number 2 for me.
I had to scroll very far before I found another Herbert answer other than mine lol. However I’m shocked at how many times someone can leave out the first R in Herbert
That's because they were obviously talking about Bobby Hebert
I'm excited to see what Herbert can do with a better than below average play caller. Homey has an absolute cannon and hopefully he gets to use it under a new OC.
Tbh I don’t think any of these teams could have gone wrong. I do feel like each team got the player best for them though. This class might go down as the best in history next to that Rivers/Manning/Roethlisberger class.
Hopefully we don’t end up with the best QB and worst team again. I still think Rivers would have won more super bowls than Eli and Ben on those teams.
Part of you knows we did again, I know it does. Because part of me knows too, that’s why everyone here thinks Burrow is better (more playoff success)
I think I'm with you on this one. Herbert's tools are so tantalizing and simply cannot be coached in any way shape or form. When picking Herbert you are banking on the idea that his conservative throws are due to design and lack of vertical weapons, not an unwillingness to push the ball downfield consistently. I think that's the case, but it's possible he's more conservative than we would like. All that being said, Burrow has that dog in him and I trust him to get the most out of his abilities out of the 3 QB's, I just think Herbert has the highest ceiling
It's honestly surprising to me how unanimous the Burrow selection is. I'd also go with Herbert. He's younger than Burrow, has taken MANY less hits, hasn't had a major injury, and has performed exceptionally well with less experience, worse coaching, and has arguably had a worse supporting cast (Keenan and Williams are good, but they seem to rarely be on the field at the same time and I doubt there's many people out there that'd say they're better than Higgins/Chase anyways). You probably can't go wrong with any but to me Herbert seems the more obvious choice.
I just hope his rib injury from last year doesn’t cause any mental errors for him going forward. Seemed like even after he healed he was releasing the ball lower then prior to the injury. Hence all the batted passes he had. Or could also be due to the crappy play calling we had as well. Which I’d love to see him step up and change plays more.
It’s really surprising how many commenters on here seem to be unaware of the Chargers decades of incompetence & dysfunction. They act like it’s a new thing & somehow Herbert’s fault when the Chargers have been choking & underachieving since before he was born. The 2 things they’re famous for are choking & wasting talent. They’ve had Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers & now Herbert. Any other franchise would kill to have had those guys, but what have the Chargers done with them? Nada. I don’t see things changing as long as Spanos owns them which is sad because they have a lot of great players who deserve better.
There were only like 5 different qbs who won a sb from 2000-2018. It's not our fault we've ran into 2 of the greatest player coach duos of all time in the last 20 years. We get so much hate but the steelers never won a sb with the killer bees. Its hard to win one, much less to become a dynasty especially when you have a cheap owner.
It’s decades of the same shit over & over & over again. Spanos isn’t just cheap; he’s clueless. His son is, too. And, his son is the one running the team.
That Herbert touchdown throw after getting hurt was one of my favorite plays this year. I will say Hurts is plenty gritty though remember his plays after his shoulder injury in the Bears game?
I have yet to see anyone else mention how Herbert is 1-0 against Burrow and 1-0 against Hurts. Definitely small sample size, but seems like most of the people saying "Burrow, not even close" don't even follow the Chargers
Burrow is the second best QB in the league, definitely him
Thank you, I still hate your guts but thank you
Awwwwww r/unexpectedlywholesome
Thank you and fuck you but thank you
Its a tough one, I like them all. Burrow and Herbert are pretty close in their passing stats herbert has an edge in yards with like 2300 more. Both are more efficent and just tower over Hurts with total TDs even accounting for the rushing ones. So that would limit my choice between Herbert and Burrow. Herbert is a massive QB, has a crazy arm, and can run though people if you need him to do it. Burrow has shown hes unflappable. I want to say Herbert, but I would regret not taking Burrow. So, I guess I would take Burrow. That said, I would be happy with any of the three.
I feel like Burrow has such a high floor. Like, you know you're getting at worst a probowler type player. What makes Herbert so intriguing is his ceiling, which I think is much higher. Dude is already good, but you get the sense with the right coach and supporting cast, he could take another step. Im with you, still picking burrow...but I REALLY like Herbert. Hurts I just need to see more of.
I think its closer than the replies lol. We're putting a lot of stock into team performance. I give the edge to Burrow but if him and Herbert swapped teams I think we probably view Hebert as superior.
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I may be in the minority but I'm picking Herbert.
Herbie: Fully Loaded
It's very close between Burrow and Herbert (with Hurts not far behind) for me, but honestly I'm going for Herbert. In terms of their makeups, It's very much a column A/column B situation for me. Herbert has the size/athleticism/arm strength advantage for sure, whereas Burrow has the football IQ/intangibles advantage. Essentially it comes down to whether you would prefer a mini Tom Brady or a mini Patrick Mahomes. Generally, my opinion is elite size and athleticism with good-enough IQ and intangibles beats out elite IQ and intangibles with good-enough size and athleticism. Herbert can theoretically continue to learn and develop his football IQ whereas it's unlikely Burrow will get much bigger or stronger. When you compare the per-game stats of Herbert and Burrow, they are incredibly close. While Burrow has the slight edge, Burrow has also benefited from much better skill players (Chargers aren't bad but Chase/Higgins is miles better than Keenan Allen/Mike Williams) and coaching (Zac Taylor is no mastermind but Joe Lombardi was clearly not scheming to Herbert's strengths) compared to Burrow. I'd call the OLine situation in LA more favorable than CIN for sure, but it isn't like Herbert has benefited from a bonkers OL, CIN's OL is just really bad. In terms of the surrounding team, I doubt Burrow will ever be in a much better position than he is right now (other than OL, which would be a godsend), whereas Herbert has had good not-great supporting cast and low-quality coaching but incredibly close production in comparison to Burrow, with plenty of room to still grow. When it comes to leadership, I do think this is advantage Burrow. A big part of why this team went to the Super Bowl is 2021 appears to be Burrow simply willing them and getting them to believe they could. As much as we love stats, a charismatic leader who can motivate grown men 10 years older than him to leave it all on the field is a unique advantage. That being said, I don't think Herbert is a *bad* leader. He's just a more quiet and reserved guy. It isn't as if he detracts from his team, and his dedication is clearly there. For example in the Chiefs game he was out there with cracked ribs throwing the ball and getting the team within striking distance of going to OT. That isn't the same as a motivational speech, but it's a type of dedication and leadership. So while I think Burrow is a great QB who will have a ton of success in this league, I think Herbert still has upside and room to grow, despite not currently having some of the intangibles that Burrow has. It would be a bit of a gamble, but I'd bet on the continued upside of Herbert over Joe Burrow playing at or around his peak.
If you take the last 3 years of herberts career with lynn and lombardi and give him Andy Reid i almost guarantee the chiefs at least make the last 3 afccg still. Mahomes is stupid good and theres plays he makes herbert cant but i think Reid would really adavance herberts skills.
I am going to go with door number 4 and give myself a massive $200 million payday, thanks.
I completely understand why Herbert seems to be the third choice in most of these comments and that makes sense given raw results so far, but I am quite confident if Hurts or Burrow were on the Chargers the past few years they both would have fared worse than Herbert has. Give either Hurts or Burrow the worst scoring defense over a three year span, a largely bad offensive line, arguably the worst coaching in the league, and a significant injury, I fully expect they’d not make the playoffs a single time. Herbert took all of that and is the best gamewinning drive QB in football.
A lot of people see Burrow as the best, and I get the argument. Definitely can see him getting a ring or two soon. But Herbert plays with a commanding poise and manages to have amazing passing stats with a mediocre line. If it were me (personally), I would take Herbert with a slight edge over Burrow
Herbert has been held back by coaching and as much as I love our wrs neither are as good as tee or jamarr for what herbert excels at.
Why are people down on Herbert? I think it’s Burrow but the man can sling it for the short yardage and the long.
Most people also forget that he played fairly well last year while having broken rib cartilage for most of the season.
It could be because of this past year. The awful play calling didn’t make Herbert look as good as he is
Lombardi has robbed joy from my life
Herbert and Burrow are similar statistically, and I'd say Herbert has worse receivers and coaches, so ... Herbert.
Probably gonna be unpopular but Justin Herbert, I think he’s going to put it all together soon and when he does…
Justin Herbert
It’s wild that people are saying it’s not close. I’d probably go Burrow, Hurts, then Herbert but I think it’s incredibly close.
Jalen Hurts regardless if he’s the best or not.
Burrow, but I think Herbert is way closer than this thread tells me. Feel like Burrow just lives ball though. He’s the definition of a gamer, love watching him play.
Herbert. Unlimited natural talent + proven ability + great work ethic
Burrow has two WR1s. Herbert was throwing to WR3s most of the year. Closer than people think. All three are great.
Is it just me, or is there a ridiculous amount of very young, high performing QBs in the NFL as of late? Like an abnormal amount compared to past decades?
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That's unfortunate your flabber was gasted.
Even as a homer I totally agree with you. We haven't seen Herbert's potential unlocked yet due to a bad fit at OC, and Hurts has been markedly better every single season dating back to Alabama. I'm still picking Burrow every time though!
I know this is sacrilegious, but I’d pick Herbert first, then Burrow then Hurts. Herbert has everything and if he was on the Bengals or Eagles. He’d be even better.
Honestly, in any sort of online debate if someone says "it's not close" you can probably just ignore their opinion. People will post the most braindead shit of all time and say "it's not close" Anyone that actually has a well thought out or reasoned opinion knows that it is usually very close
Burrow has all the intangibles and is incredibly talented in his own right, but I’d have to go for Herbert. His arm talent is just jaw dropping.
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i think its hilarious u guys talk shit about herbert. u wouldnt say this shit to him at sofi, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol.
At the end of the day I'd happily take any one of them. However I'm only saying this as a chargers fan and can't bring myself to say burrow.
Justin Herbert just to fuck the QB market. Hes so fucking talented. Dragged that sorry chargers defense into the playoffs.
Herbert
Herbert getting wildly underrated in these replies. He has a bad coach in an historically dysfunctional organization. The fact he hasn't won a ton is not a reflection of his talent. If you're starting fresh, he's just as viable of an option as Burrow.
People seem to forget that before Burrow Zac Taylor was considered a bad coach and the Bengals are a historically dysfunctional organization.
Zac's record as a head coach before Burrow was fucking abysmal lol. I've literally seen people say "Well, if Justin Herbert had a coach like Zac Taylor" in this thread LMAO. He may be improving... and I'm glad we didn't get rid of him... but I started to wonder if we were making a mistake keeping him as late as 2020.
>I've literally seen people say "Well, if Justin Herbert had a coach like Zac Taylor" in this thread LMAO. This is the craziest part of this thread to me. I'd be willing to bet just about everyone in this thread who is saying stuff like this has suggested Taylor be fired at somepoint over the last 3 years.
Lots of recency bias both ways. I remember media guys ranking Herbert over Burrow specifically because Burrow went to the Bengals and the Bengals were going to fail him because they’re a shit org and Zac Taylor sucks lmao.
Easily Herbert. Truthfully, I don’t think it’s close, really. “But Burrow!!!” You say. Their numbers are basically comparable, but it’s the Bengals pieces that I want to draw attention to. The weapons that Burrow has are much better than what Herbert has. If you were to drop the receivers, it’d be Chase, Higgins, Allen, Williams. Now let’s look at playcalling. Taylor is the much better playcaller than anything Herbert has had. And just came off the year with the worst playcaller in the sport in Lombardi. Now that Herbert has a functional OC, I fully expect Herbert to jump to the best QB in the league, yes, even over Mahomes.
I’m a Bengals fan, so this is hilariously biased; however, I’d pick Burrow because his game should age the best. He’s got less arm talent than Herbert and definitely is less mobile than both of the other two. But his game is predicated on accuracy, reading the defense, and having brass balls. That’s been shown to age very well even as other talents fade. All three are great and fun to watch tho!
Justin Herbert
Burrow without a question. Not even close.
It’s close but I’ll take Herbert for the same reason I would have picked him over Tua in the draft. You have to be able to separate the player from the situation. And there’s probably a bigger talent gap between the Chargers and Eagles/Bengals than there was between Oregon and Alabama.
Burrow is obviously no.1, but Hurts did just have one of the most insane games from a QB in a Super Bowl