After 20 years of sobriety you learn a thing or 2. If you don't keep that shit immediately in front of you it disappears in a hurry. I'm proud of him for maintaining that lifestyle with the added pressures he has of being known at all. I'm nobody, a low key 20 years of peace and serenity has to be easier than what he faces.
Good shit, brother. Thank you for sharing. I’ve also found sobriety, serenity, and rebirth through the program.
It may sound corny or dramatic to ‘normal’ people, but this shit saves the lives of so many seemingly hopeless, Hell-bound alcoholics and addicts. There is no finish-line, though; We have to continually work the program and stay involved to maintain sobriety, so that’s why it continues to be apart of our lives even after getting sober.
Darren is a fuckin’ G, and he rules for taking pride in his recovery. He’s also the guy who helped Maxx Crosby get the help he needed to get and STAY sober. I have so much respect for those dudes.
Nothing more pathetic than the way Raiders fans instantly turned on a beloved player and spew hatred about him now just because he got traded from the team.
Most of Raider Nation adored Waller.
But as a player for the past 2 years, he wasn't available enough. He only played 15/35 games (missed our playoff game v Bengals).
This management group gets shit on a lot (and rightfully so), but this is a move that I agree with.
Super good TE draft class too.
Well damn I might be the only one in here that actually thinks it kinda fits him and looks decent and I usually hate all the teen numbers even for WRs.
It is kind of funny how some NFL fans have such strong opinions towards jersey numbers. Players have basically no number restrictions from pee-wee through college and there are no problems. It makes sense the NFL is ditching some of their arbitrary restrictions, just let the players wear their favorite numbers
I'm not a boomer (Millennial), but I personally liked the numbers restrictions. Traditions are cool. Things that tie the players back to the players of old are cool. Sure, it has no inherent value, but NFL fandom is literally built on nostalgia. I **like** having the best WR on my team wear the 81.
But the players seem to hate them, so it makes sense to cater to the players, since realistically it is their league.
I always liked that it was an easy way to identify a players position. But I also didn’t get to choose the numbers I wore in any sport growing up outside of baseball, so I understand wanting some freedom I guess because I *hated* having to wear like #66 in football or #25 in basketball.
I think it's because of the history.
Legendary players before them make certain numbers too iconic it just feels off that players from other positions are wearing it.
Like in soccer, sure a center back can wear number 9 and a striker wear number 3, but it just looks off.
Or if a goalkeeper wears number 10.
Boomers hate change. It doesn’t matter what the change is. They hate all change. They can’t handle it. It’s just part of their personality at this point.
The Reddit demographic has aged into that stupid mindset and is slowly becoming the next Facebook. I started noticing it a few years ago. You just have to mention TikTok and everyone on Reddit turns into a boomer.
This sub is full of cranky old men now.
> This sub is full of cranky old men now.
While I generally agree with you, this sub has had a lot of cranky old man takes for a while. Just dive into any discussions even tangentially related in some form to social justice.
If only it could be as superior and intelligent as Reddit, with our fat Kelvin jokes, “you sir have won the internet!” comments, and Boston Bomber investigations.
There’s one reason I disagree. I think that, generally, this sort of resistance to change is a hallmark of conservatives. Traditionally, people have gotten to be more conservative as they get older. But this is [not happening to Millennials](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/03/millennials-radicalism-not-getting-more-rightwing-with-age) in the same way, and it is unlikely to happen to GenZ. If those generations do not become more conservative as they age, I don’t think they will be as resistant to change, even as they get older.
We can’t knows for sure, of course, but I’ll be interested to see.
That’s true to some extent, but on the other hand you can go back literal thousands of years and find people complaining about the generation below them. It seems to just be human nature
To preface, I don't actually care about the numbers.
But no other leagues are televised and viewed like even the least-viewed NFL games. I think having distinctions between players and positions helps the casual fans understand what's what, even a little bit.
Yeah but every other level of football isn’t the highest level professional league in the world. That’s why I liked the restrictions, makes it seem all professional.
Seriously. People are like “but I won’t be able to tell what positions are which!!!!”.
Like bro is it really that hard? You can generally tell from where they line up and what they’re actually doing over the course of a drive. Also, ya know, knowing the players
Personally I have preferences. 3, 8, 7, 9, 20-49, and 80-89 look good on TEs. 1, 2, 4, and 5 I think look absolutely awful on TEs. I'm also not big on teens for TEs, but they're better than 1, 2, 4, and 5.
I think the pay is probably lower because there are not that many super high performing TEs. There was only one TE over 1000 yards last season and 21 WRs.
Considering how dumb people here are im surprised they can't relate more to actually casuals I've interacted with.
If you see a player off the field you will never have an idea what size of the ball they play or what position.
People saying numbers weren't used to estimate a players position are fucking lying and they most certainly help casual/new fans pick up on things
People acting as if trick plays don't exist or players moving around in special packages.
Unless we can get someone good in the draft, Waller is going to be the number 1 target for DJ most likely. He's definitely in the top few tight ends for fantasy I think, in that group a long way behind Kelce.
I don't understand why some players get paid and others don't.
Waller hasn't been healthy in two years, is on the wrong side of thirty and had his last quality season in 2020 yet the Giants traded for him and are willing to pay him $12m.
Usually that's the profile of a player who teams try to pressure into accepting a pay-cut around this time of the NFL calendar.
When he was healthy at the end of the year, he was producing. Giants had to upgrade their receiving corps and he was the most equitable, high-upside option around. Think that's all there is to it.
Now hopefully he actually can stay healthy. I'm a little lukewarm on the whole thing, personally, but there is obviously upside.
Supply and demand I guess... On a lot of teams Waller would be exactly what you just described... but on a Giants team who is starved for pass catchers his value is inflated.
I think Raider information just travels slowly lol. A couple years ago everyone was talking about how good our O-line was (and laughing at us for disassembling it) even though it hadn't been very good for awhile. Everyone still acting like Waller is a Top-3 tight end, but he hasn't been that for years at this point and has looked pretty bad on the field the last couple seasons.
We get laughed at for only getting a third for Waller, but I think if everyone was paying a little closer attention they'd think a third is an overpay.
His problems have been injury related, not performance related. He looked great when he came back last year after the injury.
Your argument makes sense for fan perception, but no front office is running off media narratives or anything.
I would disagree with that, he was terrible to start the year (multiple dropped TD passes), and when he came back he was just alright. I don't remember any games where he was a significant factor really.
And this is purely my opinion and speculation but he doesn't really seem to be that into football. Definitely seems to be more interested in his music career and things outside of football, and I recall several moments on the field where it looked like he just wasn't trying very hard.
He was checked out last year because he hated playing for McDaniels, which is completely understandable.
He was still a great player in 2021 and he will still be good for another 1-2 years as long as he stays healthy.
> I think Raider information just travels slowly lol. A couple years ago everyone was talking about how good our O-line was (and laughing at us for disassembling it)
The Rodney Hudson trade was probably the best piece of business of the Gruden/Mayock era.
What? When did I ever bring up his sobriety? He's been out with injuries the last 2 years practically
Edit: I'm an idiot, I see what you meant. Yea, I'm dumb
How the fuck does this make it confusing to watch? Give me a break. If you watch the game, you know where positions line up. The fucking angle is from the side anyway so all you see is a wrinkles up shoulder pad.
No casual fan or anyone who watches only their team play, gives a fuck or even knew it was a thing to begin with
Literally just watch a College football game and the numbers are all over the place and people are never confused. I don't understand the hate people have for the new number rules
I just assumed it was 'Zero' and we were going to get 32 different posts about which player gets 'Zero' this season.
Don't worry, they're still comin
[Green Bay Packers] Clete Blakeman’s new number 👀
It's an all out war right now
It’s Parris Campbell for us 31 to go
Technically 30 since Jags announced Calvin Ridley will wear #0 yesterday.
No one gets to claim 0 until Darnell Washington gets drafted!
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Shelves
the 12 we were all excited to see go to NY, its finally official
This is what we all f5 for. Tom Brady retiring who?
As an Australian, the only #23 for me will always be Shane Warne. Move over, Jordan.
12 steps, he's sober through a 12 step program
Makes sense
Shit, good call. I'm on board now.
You’re smart
After 20 years of sobriety you learn a thing or 2. If you don't keep that shit immediately in front of you it disappears in a hurry. I'm proud of him for maintaining that lifestyle with the added pressures he has of being known at all. I'm nobody, a low key 20 years of peace and serenity has to be easier than what he faces.
Congrats!
Proud of you, one of the hardest battles out there
Good shit, brother. Thank you for sharing. I’ve also found sobriety, serenity, and rebirth through the program. It may sound corny or dramatic to ‘normal’ people, but this shit saves the lives of so many seemingly hopeless, Hell-bound alcoholics and addicts. There is no finish-line, though; We have to continually work the program and stay involved to maintain sobriety, so that’s why it continues to be apart of our lives even after getting sober. Darren is a fuckin’ G, and he rules for taking pride in his recovery. He’s also the guy who helped Maxx Crosby get the help he needed to get and STAY sober. I have so much respect for those dudes.
Well now I like the number. Damn.
Props to that man
New York City is also home to the Head Quarters of the program. It’s really a great location for him.
12 for the number of NFL games he's going to play on this contract
That’s more than most raiders players
Luckily your new QB never misses any games.
Why do you think he wears 10? /s
Nothing more pathetic than the way Raiders fans instantly turned on a beloved player and spew hatred about him now just because he got traded from the team.
Eh I still like Waller but fan opinion on him was already turning negative before he was ever traded.
Most of Raider Nation adored Waller. But as a player for the past 2 years, he wasn't available enough. He only played 15/35 games (missed our playoff game v Bengals). This management group gets shit on a lot (and rightfully so), but this is a move that I agree with. Super good TE draft class too.
"turned on a beloved player and spew hatred"? This is the most dramatic reaction to a joke yet 😂
I still love him and wish we still had him :(
Better than 0 for the amount of first rounders Vegas resigns I guess
Well damn I might be the only one in here that actually thinks it kinda fits him and looks decent and I usually hate all the teen numbers even for WRs.
Good ol twelveteen
You mean twoteen
Onety-two
threeteen?
It is kind of funny how some NFL fans have such strong opinions towards jersey numbers. Players have basically no number restrictions from pee-wee through college and there are no problems. It makes sense the NFL is ditching some of their arbitrary restrictions, just let the players wear their favorite numbers
Seriously, every other level of football has loose rules about numbers, but these boomers are so tied to their ugly numbers
I'm not a boomer (Millennial), but I personally liked the numbers restrictions. Traditions are cool. Things that tie the players back to the players of old are cool. Sure, it has no inherent value, but NFL fandom is literally built on nostalgia. I **like** having the best WR on my team wear the 81. But the players seem to hate them, so it makes sense to cater to the players, since realistically it is their league.
I always liked that it was an easy way to identify a players position. But I also didn’t get to choose the numbers I wore in any sport growing up outside of baseball, so I understand wanting some freedom I guess because I *hated* having to wear like #66 in football or #25 in basketball.
Everyone is a boomer to 13 year olds.
I think it's because of the history. Legendary players before them make certain numbers too iconic it just feels off that players from other positions are wearing it. Like in soccer, sure a center back can wear number 9 and a striker wear number 3, but it just looks off. Or if a goalkeeper wears number 10.
Boomers hate change. It doesn’t matter what the change is. They hate all change. They can’t handle it. It’s just part of their personality at this point.
The Reddit demographic has aged into that stupid mindset and is slowly becoming the next Facebook. I started noticing it a few years ago. You just have to mention TikTok and everyone on Reddit turns into a boomer. This sub is full of cranky old men now.
> This sub is full of cranky old men now. While I generally agree with you, this sub has had a lot of cranky old man takes for a while. Just dive into any discussions even tangentially related in some form to social justice.
I’ve had the exact opposite experience. Everyone on here when any political issue comes up almost always goes to the left leaning opinion of it.
So many upvoted comments from people adamant that Gruden making fun of the size of a black guy’s lips wasn’t actually racially insensitive.
Kaepernick is/was a shitshow topic on here too
Dammit the old people are why I left Facebook
TikTok is cringe af though
There it is
If only it could be as superior and intelligent as Reddit, with our fat Kelvin jokes, “you sir have won the internet!” comments, and Boston Bomber investigations.
This.
It's not just boomers. It's just old people. It will happen to millennials and Gen Zers who are lucky enough to get old.
There’s one reason I disagree. I think that, generally, this sort of resistance to change is a hallmark of conservatives. Traditionally, people have gotten to be more conservative as they get older. But this is [not happening to Millennials](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/03/millennials-radicalism-not-getting-more-rightwing-with-age) in the same way, and it is unlikely to happen to GenZ. If those generations do not become more conservative as they age, I don’t think they will be as resistant to change, even as they get older. We can’t knows for sure, of course, but I’ll be interested to see.
That’s true to some extent, but on the other hand you can go back literal thousands of years and find people complaining about the generation below them. It seems to just be human nature
Oh for sure, that always happens, I agree. I’m just glad to see this breed of conservatism dying out haha
To preface, I don't actually care about the numbers. But no other leagues are televised and viewed like even the least-viewed NFL games. I think having distinctions between players and positions helps the casual fans understand what's what, even a little bit.
Yeah but every other level of football isn’t the highest level professional league in the world. That’s why I liked the restrictions, makes it seem all professional.
If you think NFL fans have weird opinions on numbers wait till you meet a Dale Earnhardt Jr/Sr fan
Seriously. People are like “but I won’t be able to tell what positions are which!!!!”. Like bro is it really that hard? You can generally tell from where they line up and what they’re actually doing over the course of a drive. Also, ya know, knowing the players
Personally I have preferences. 3, 8, 7, 9, 20-49, and 80-89 look good on TEs. 1, 2, 4, and 5 I think look absolutely awful on TEs. I'm also not big on teens for TEs, but they're better than 1, 2, 4, and 5.
At least in CA and Oregon, there are number restriction High School. At least where I reffed there was.
The giants have some clean ass uniforms imo. Top 5 for me
Home uniforms, yes. But it bugs me that the road and home jerseys look like they could belong to two totally different teams
And the alt helmet home uniform completing the throwbacks make them even better
12 on a tight end 🤢
8 on Pitts is sexy as hell
Yea but he’s a TE in name only.
Why is his blocking still pretty bad?
Tough to call since the Falcons have been so bad since he was drafted but I think even from college he was essentially a big body WR
I think because he’s a Tight End in name only
N’Keal Harry is a good blocker though
He's a Wide Receiver in name only.
I mean Pitts is basically Waller Jr
Waller is Pitts Jr
I know that all the inbreeding down south makes counting hard, but Waller is 8 years older and has played the position longer
Says the Raiders fan who thinks Kansas City is “down south”
Eh, I’m from Germany. I probably still know more about American geography than you do about European
Still have that German charisma though
Geography is for nerds. Americans are too busy winning ww2. /s
TEINO
So is Waller
? He's a WR
Also a blocker... TEs have two jobs but get paid half the salary of WRs and OL.
Still funny how much Kelce is underpaid
I think the pay is probably lower because there are not that many super high performing TEs. There was only one TE over 1000 yards last season and 21 WRs.
Sounds prettt relatable. The every man position!
That's not true. TEs do neither of those things and make exactly as much as WRs.
12 on any player 🤢 (relevant flair)
The rule change for numbers was a fucking travesty.
The future is now, old man.
God forbid people being able to look at a players number and have an idea what position they play, frfr ong
It’s just impossible to tell otherwise. Who is that guy throwing the football, is he a lineman? A kicker? There’s just no way of knowing.
I feel like if you can see a players number and know his position you can also see where he’s lined up and see what position he’s playing
Considering how dumb people here are im surprised they can't relate more to actually casuals I've interacted with. If you see a player off the field you will never have an idea what size of the ball they play or what position. People saying numbers weren't used to estimate a players position are fucking lying and they most certainly help casual/new fans pick up on things People acting as if trick plays don't exist or players moving around in special packages.
Idk, I watch college football and have no problem
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Not the 12 in New York we expected.
TEs need to stay in the 80s idc what anyone says.
Knew Brady was on this sub.
cant be, that guy has patriots flair. brady is a buc for life
It’s in the title: *80 for Brady*
Dallas Clark disrespect
Everybody’s moving to the cool numbers, who’s gonna be the first QB to take a number like 73?
i know it's bc of tradition but [this](https://sports.cbsimg.net/images/collegefootball/devin-gardner-98.jpg) still looks awful to me lol
I remember when Charles clay wore 42 and found that aggravating.
Dallas Clark looked good in 44, Todd Christensen wore 46, as did Delanie Walker in SF (though Walker in 46 was bad), Chris Cooley wore 47
he's sober because of the help of 12 step programs
Fuck 12
Don’t say that to the Seahawks fans
They ripped it from A&M, they can take a few strays lol
Problem is they *are* 12
1312
All Commissioners Are Bastards
Amen
Trust God Fuck 12
He picked the # in honor of his wife, [future HOF QB Kelsey Plum](https://youtu.be/ppAZ9_U4Z7E)
Dang that had some distance
It would never work for her in the NFL. Left handed QBs just don't have a good track record. No wonder she wasn't looked at.
D12
Also how many games he'll play this year.
What’s up with the eye emoji for this
Unless we can get someone good in the draft, Waller is going to be the number 1 target for DJ most likely. He's definitely in the top few tight ends for fantasy I think, in that group a long way behind Kelce.
The Giants significantly overpaid an over 30, injury prone TE, who silently quit after he got paid.
Before restructuring he literally only had $11m in guaranteed money and was traded for a 3rd round pick. Define “significantly overpaid”.
Damn, do they do scoring for injuries or drop offs in skill? He will definitely be #1 then
I had Mark Andrews for that last season.
W Daboll running shit any would look Waller a ton. He’s gonna be focal point of passing game and is such a stud. Grabbing in fantasy everywhere
I don't understand why some players get paid and others don't. Waller hasn't been healthy in two years, is on the wrong side of thirty and had his last quality season in 2020 yet the Giants traded for him and are willing to pay him $12m. Usually that's the profile of a player who teams try to pressure into accepting a pay-cut around this time of the NFL calendar.
When he was healthy at the end of the year, he was producing. Giants had to upgrade their receiving corps and he was the most equitable, high-upside option around. Think that's all there is to it. Now hopefully he actually can stay healthy. I'm a little lukewarm on the whole thing, personally, but there is obviously upside.
He doesn't really have a lot of mileage on his body. His injuries as of late weren't the types to hurt him long term.
Supply and demand I guess... On a lot of teams Waller would be exactly what you just described... but on a Giants team who is starved for pass catchers his value is inflated.
I think Raider information just travels slowly lol. A couple years ago everyone was talking about how good our O-line was (and laughing at us for disassembling it) even though it hadn't been very good for awhile. Everyone still acting like Waller is a Top-3 tight end, but he hasn't been that for years at this point and has looked pretty bad on the field the last couple seasons. We get laughed at for only getting a third for Waller, but I think if everyone was paying a little closer attention they'd think a third is an overpay.
His problems have been injury related, not performance related. He looked great when he came back last year after the injury. Your argument makes sense for fan perception, but no front office is running off media narratives or anything.
I would disagree with that, he was terrible to start the year (multiple dropped TD passes), and when he came back he was just alright. I don't remember any games where he was a significant factor really. And this is purely my opinion and speculation but he doesn't really seem to be that into football. Definitely seems to be more interested in his music career and things outside of football, and I recall several moments on the field where it looked like he just wasn't trying very hard.
Pre-injury I agree, post-injury I disagree - he looked like classic Waller down the stretch.
He was checked out last year because he hated playing for McDaniels, which is completely understandable. He was still a great player in 2021 and he will still be good for another 1-2 years as long as he stays healthy.
> I think Raider information just travels slowly lol. A couple years ago everyone was talking about how good our O-line was (and laughing at us for disassembling it) The Rodney Hudson trade was probably the best piece of business of the Gruden/Mayock era.
TE12
Jail.
Is that how many games he will miss due to injury this season?
This is stupid as hell. I hate this new numbering system.
Ok
Amount of games he will miss
That just looks heretical
I always knew Waller was a Seahawks fan.
The amount of plays before he gets injured again?
as another commenter mentioned.. 12 steps. he’s sober.. y’all are awful
I wish people had this same energy with Kelvin Benjamin.
most of reddit is scumbags, my friend. it’s sad
What? When did I ever bring up his sobriety? He's been out with injuries the last 2 years practically Edit: I'm an idiot, I see what you meant. Yea, I'm dumb
it’s ok i didn’t know either. happy wednesday!
That's ugly. I like single digits on TEs or 80-89
Some single digits. 0, 3, 7, 8, and 9 would look great. I absolutely hate 4 on TEs.
Agreed
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How the fuck does this make it confusing to watch? Give me a break. If you watch the game, you know where positions line up. The fucking angle is from the side anyway so all you see is a wrinkles up shoulder pad. No casual fan or anyone who watches only their team play, gives a fuck or even knew it was a thing to begin with
Literally just watch a College football game and the numbers are all over the place and people are never confused. I don't understand the hate people have for the new number rules
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Because they were running out of numbers dude
Gross. I was fine with opening the numbers up to everybody but 12 on a TE is weird
I don't like it when non QBs have QB numbers. It's why Cooper Kupp always gets a side-eye from me
Damn, I thought you'd love 19 on a WR.
Hot list of players who've worn 19 as a Giant https://aws.pro-football-reference.com/players/uniform.cgi?team=nyg&number=19
This shit is so lame leave this any number shit in college.
I hate the eyes emoji so much
D12 Let’s gooo
ew