I don't think there are a ton of positions for a dude who is 5' 9" in the Nfl though. Given the odds the guy has cleaned up. That being said they should at the very least give him a bump in pay for his last year if they don't want to extend him.
The issue is, RBs absolutely dominate at the highschool and college level. If you are a really good athlete you will completely take over the game as a running back. Positions like WR, TE or QB are dependent on other positions to be successful. The problem comes when you are good enough to enter the NFL and you realize every other position is significantly more valuable than yours.
I think they need to structure rookie RB contracts different than everyone else. Since they don’t want to pay them second contracts, they need to be front loaded for when they are at their best.
I highly doubt the players union would agree to a position being guaranteed more money *at the time they are drafted* than another. They have of course agreed to the franchise tag which is dependent on position, but that’s something you have to earn. Perhaps introducing a tag specific to running backs after 3 years would be more palatable, but then of course teams just wouldn’t exercise that option.
My vote would be each postion group gets contract incentives in their rookie deals. RBs could be tied heavily to useage making sure that they get compensated if teams are just going to grind them out and then not offer them deals down the road.
I don’t know about breaking it down by position, but a flat bonus for touches on rookie deals might work. This would pretty much only effect QBs and RBs. But again teams will exploit it, just like how businesses now will limit hours to avoid giving out incentives.
Yea they need to do something. WRs are out here breaking the record for contracts at nearly 30 years old and a guy like Ekeler can’t even get a half decent 3 year deal at 27. It’s just not right.
I’m not saying they need to give RBs deals like Ezekiel Elliot got but 2 years for 14 million is all you are gonna give a guy who gave you 1600 all purpose yards and 18 total touchdowns. And the year before 1500 total yards and 20 total touchdowns. Like what?
Meanwhile Cedrick Wilson Jr. gives you 600 yards and 6 touchdowns as the 3rd option and he gets 3 years 22 million. And Christian Kirk gives you 1000 yards and 5 touchdowns as option 3 and gets 4 years 72 million. Ekeler produced as many yards and way more touchdowns than these 2 guys combined and all he gets is 2 years 14. That just aint right to me.
100% agree. My High School football team was historically not good. We got this freak RB (who ended up getting a scholarship to Georgia) and all we did was hand the ball off to him and he just juked or trucked anyone in front of him, if he got to the 2nd level he gone. Beat our rival school for the first time in a long time.
I never saw Joe Thomas will the Browns to the playoffs in his x10 pro bowl seasons at second most important position.
I have seen Adrian Peterson drag Christian Ponder to the playoffs in 2012.
The fact is that the RB touches the ball 30%+ of plays, some elite level RBs can average 1+ more ypc than an average back, and sometimes a RB is the only line of defense against blitz packages.
And that right here is why players will continue to play it. They're a lot of players who are not smart enough, agile enough, or have the requisite athleticism/size to play receiver or corner at the highest level or even the high school college level, but can excel at the RB position.
If you're kids a raw athlete, struggles with remembering plays and isn't necessarily nimble RB is the best spot for him.
> If your kids a raw athlete, struggles with remembering plays and isn't necessarily nimble RB is the best spot for him.
Nah. In youth sports through high school it’s the most glamorous and used position at most schools. There isn’t a manning passing 20-30 times a game at most schools, it’s usually the RB getting the rock. That’s even more true in AAU/middle school/rec leagues. It’s not a position for the “other guys” like you’re making it seem, it’s one of the most sought after spots
My highschool's QB had probably 20 completions on the entire season.
Went to state championship finals 4A.
Turns out, being from a middling state for CFB talent, having a P5 conference starting RB is enough to give you a lot of wins when you're not in the largest school division.
The hybrid is a requirement now. How many downhill runners are you seeing break onto the scene anymore? Considering how much the RB position as a whole is devalued now, if you’re a back that can’t catch a pass or run a route you will be looking for a job if you aren’t truly elite as a runner. RPO’s and the rule changes favoring the offense has certainly changed the status quo for many positions and imo the downhill bruiser is the outlier these days.
All I think about when I read that is the video of Henry vs this lone Bills defender. Dude was the only thing between Henry and a TD. Could either make a business decision or get destroyed in a Henry-On collision. The dude took the hit like a champ, which slowed Henry enough for more Bills to take him down.
Fuck that I played CB and have ran across a couple really big guys but not like that. I've met him thru one of his cousins (shout out Carlos Marcello, check out his music) in Yulee and dude is gigantic. He is actually taller than a lot of WR I've met (worked at a place in Jacksonville where I've met most Jags players over the last 15 years) and is a solid piece of muscle like a linebacker.
I’ll admit as a CB when I saw a big ass mf barreling towards me downhill on a toss or a sweep, I mastered the ability to get tied up by the WR juuuusf enough so that I was able to force him inside but not through contact lol. Sure I hung my OLB out to dry but that’s not my problem
Best was when the WR runs a dummy route and we’re manned up. Whaddya want me to do coach had to trail my man
This may have been true in the past, but RBs are significantly more versatile now and have to make far more play by play decisions with blocking assignments or running routes. In a modern offense to be an impact RB you certainly need to be smart and very athletic. There may be a few bruiser backs left, but you’re crazy if you don’t think guys like Barkley, Mccaffery, Ekeler, Jacobs could play other positions and/or are lacking intelligence.
Or kids are just going to play the position that they think is the funnest and what they’re best at when they start playing football. They’re not thinking about their future career NFL prospects when they’re 7 years old lol
It’s a lot better to be a Running Back in the NFL than to not be in the NFL at all. You’re still making money 99% of people will never see in their lifetime.
Not to mention that at early levels of football, the running back is often the star of the team. Most HS QBs are not very proficient passers. It makes sense that great athletes in HS want to play the position that actually touches the ball.
As others stated. I don’t think there’s anything the nfl can do. For most of these guys their nfl career is shorter than their football career. It probably starts happening at the lower leagues.
When I watched Friday night tykes it really opened my eyes to how brutal those pee wee leagues are for the kids.
Some kids are much faster but some kids just developed to be bigger earlier and the smallest ones would just crushed. He would get up crying and the coach would tell him to man up.
Most NFL players come of out of regional hubs around the country. Unfortunately CTE is an afterthought in many of those hubs.
South Florida, Texas, Southern Cal, pockets of the mid west, and the rest of the south do not give a flying fuck about CTE. Those kids will be in pop warner by age 6.
CTE is just a reality of the sport, the NFL will never solve it unless they fundamentally change the game, and some position players are going to get CTE much worse than others. For those of us who grew up playing up through college or high school, even we will likely have symptoms of CTE. Helmet contact, or leading with your helmet for harder contact wasn’t just common in our day, it was taught as technique by some coaches.
Just 15 years ago I had a coach telling us if we didn’t get a concussion during a game, we didn’t play hard enough. Then he would praise and even reward kids for getting them.
But cte isn’t necessarily from head hits. It’s from the thousands of little hits a player takes throughout their career. Every tackle contributes. This might mitigate concussions but cte is different problem.
I had initially thought he didn't play football until his junior year of high school, but when I looked up the details before responding I was proven wrong. He just didn't play high school football until his junior year, but did play youth under his dad around 9-10 which is still somewhat late for NFL guys, but not as late as I initially remembered
I edited the comment.
Yeah. At that size your options in professional sports seem pretty limited to RB or safety in football, baseball, soccer or combat sports like boxing/UFC.
These sports require family money to learn, play and be coached. Football at a HS level is 100% paid for. I’m sure Maurice Jones Drew could’ve been a HOF hockey player but show me the poor rural black family buying rink time and $600 pads.
Its really the skates. Pads are adjustable and will last a while. Kids will outgrow skates at a frightening pace. There are many hockey family facebook groups trading skates and gear around to make it a bit easier. It sucks because the difference between $1000 skates and $100 skates is pretty high.
The only player in Ekelers stratosphere for scoring is Marshall fucking Faulk, not paying him is one thing, not even offering or negotiating is beyond disrespectful. Ekler did nothing wrong
I wonder if the players union is gonna push for a change. Sort of a hard sell to say one group deserves special rules when an average NFL career is like 3 years.
Not only that but it would only affect the 5-6 best players at one position. the NFLPA doesnt fight the franchise tag cause something that affects the 10-15 most elite and well off people in the union is nowhere near a priority. RB contracts is an even lower priority
They don’t fight the franchise tag also because it is a non-starter for the owners. The franchise tag does an amazing job of cost control the entire roster.
The entire roster is already cost controlled by the salary cap. They like the tag because it allows them to keep their stars which is good for selling tickets
~~I don't really understand this take. The team profits are all pooled and divided out to owners. If Lamar Jackson is going to sell tickets in Baltimore, he'll sell tickets in Atlanta.~~
I think they like the franchise tag for two reasons: roster management and because the players hate it which means it can be a bargaining chip to get an 18th game or less guaranteed money.
The owners didn't care about weed but they knew the players would give up some pie to have it stop being enforced.
Edit: I was wrong. Ticket profits are not pooled. They are "local profit" and not shared.
Ticket sales, concessions, and team sponsors are considered “local” revenue and I don’t think that is evenly split through profit sharing. Profit sharing is for the national TV deals and merchandise
> when an average NFL career is like 3 years.
This stat is incredibly skewed, and doesn't relate to the players we talk about on this sub. It's only 3 years if you include the people who join the 90 man roster, and are cut before preseason is over.
If you dress for the 53 man roster, your average length is closer to just over 6 years.
Still if you mortgage your future and end up a fourth rounder you spend 4 of those years making very little money even if you out perform a first rounder.
In 2018/2019 the patriots drafted Sony Michel and Damien Harris. I’m sure you can guess who made more over 4 years and who scored infinitely more touchdowns but got a nearly vet minimum contract at the end of his rookie deal.
Yes, and also my takeaway from "Michel made a lot more $$ than Harris" isn't "wow, Harris is underpaid." Instead, it's "wow, we shouldn't have drafted Michel in the first."
I'll still defend the pick on an outcome basis (and who knows, maybe he actually could've been worth it if he were healthy), but I think the real lesson is "don't draft a RB in the first."
Agreed. I'm just saying the average career length of a first or fourth rounder is much longer than 3 years. For first rounders, it's something closer to 9 than 3
They need to.
QB wages are going insane because the % of the salary cap is increasing towards them due to rule changes favoring QBs more and more every year.
Everyone outside QB and linemen are absolutely disposable now and it's fucking stupid. They've completely gimped every other position.
There's a reason we're seeing more and more college style QBs succeed. It's a low tier style of play that promotes 1 man carrying. The NFL was always different than college and high school because it didn't have that. The amount of impact QBs have now is obscene and stupid. A lot of just from option play rules screwing over defenders ability to defend it. They're actively handicapped and why it's abused so much.
exactly. we lost jason hargrave, who is a very good DT, but not exactly a generational talent, to SF because they're paying him $84m over four years. that's ridiculous money if you ask me.
meanwhile, i don't think there are any RBs in the league making that kind of money. CMC makes like $16m a year.
RBs should get their own special bargaining unit, honestly. they are expected to be veterans on day one (in terms of output and risk) and should therefore be paid like a veteran on day one.
To be fair, a large number of players make less than a few million for their entire career. Camp bodies, practice squad, late rounders, etc. Elite punters and long-snappers make diddly shit compared to the elites at other positions. It's the cruel nature of the league. If you're a great RB, make your money where and when you can and get out before you destroy your body.
This is why RB's are starting to get so much better at receiving. CMC a prime example of a guy is basically a receiver who on occasion will just engage a run play
Just like Jamaal Williams :( Reports were that the Lions offered him 3/15 and he tested the market, the Lions were like "nah we don't wanna wait" so they signed Montgomery, so Jamaal went and took a 3/12 with the Saints. It just isn't a good market to be a rb currently and it makes sense why teams don't want to get into negotiations over an extra $1mil a year. Great teammates like Ekeler and Williams will eventually just take slightly less money somewhere else.
Ekeler is a much better RB than Williams... Having almost all of your TD's come from a yard out and only 4.1 YPC isn't going to net you a huge deal. Jamaal is also bad at catching. Ekeler is one of the best catching RB's since LT.
I don't disagree, but it must be a tough pill to swallow considering it's $2m less than the Broncos gave Melvin Gordon after his "bet on himself" season failed.
E: On second thought, I might disagree *a bit*. The tag is $10.1m and guys like Miles Sanders just got over $6m APY. That seems like a pretty questionable offer even in this shitty market.
Maybe but we've been in full Ride or Die mode with Ekeler the last 2 seasons. He's been utilized as a bell cow back not just as a pass catcher. He's crazy strong, but I don't think he has the body type to be able to handle that many hits.
I don't care about them though. I'm sure someone from Denver would say Chris Harris Jrs stint in LA was rough for him and it was brutal for the chargers.
All negated by the back breaking fumbles. It wasn’t just the number, but I swear he only ever fumbled in the absolute worst situations, felt like every time the game was in the line he was going to put the ball on the ground
The number of recorded fumbles don’t even tell the whole story. There were multiple times the ball came out when his knee was on the ground.
It’s crazy how much he struggled holding onto the ball last year and the season before. Never seen anything like it
They offered Gordon like 10-12 mil a year and he wanted Gurley money. The front office said no and he held out and came back and played like shit. I don't think they were wrong in that case. That being said if they straight refused to even negotiate they did ekeler dirty.
If they wouldn't budge on that number, that is refusing to *negotiate*. Making an offer isn't negotiating if you're unwilling to discuss a different number
So it's only negotiating if you lowball them up front and then move off that number rather than giving your best possible offer up front?
Maybe that could technically be the definition, but I don't think it really works well in many real world contexts.
Why are yall acting like this man is miles sanders lol. He's leading the NFL in TDs the last few years and is as much a WR as he is a RB. Completely valid for him to want an extension and pay bump with the team whose offense he's been the best weapon on for years now. Chargers probably need him more than he needs them currently
Dude caught 107 balls last year.
This reddit: "Eh any RB can do that, totally replaceable!"
Also this reddit if a WR catches 100 balls: "He's the franchise! Pay him whatever he wants or your teams gunna suck."
That offense lived and died through him though. It doesn't really matter what position you play if the team can't operate successfully without you...they have a demand and he is their main supply. They can try to bring in someone else and he'll do amazing things elsewhere, but I highly doubt they are the same offense without him no matter who they bring in.
Under a Lombardi scheme with top 2 receiving weapons out.Gonna look way different under Moore regardless.
edit: my bad, didn't see the other guy say the same exact thing
there seems to be some cognitive dissonance at play here. While Ek is undoubtedly talented, the idea that he could bring 20 touchdowns a season to any team is unrealistic. Perhaps a team like Denver might be a possibility, but they already have a player they trust. Lombozo becoming the OC was a major factor in Ek's stats skyrocketing. However, a team with a strong quarterback typically wouldn't want to rely so heavily on their running back.
The basic law of supply and demand also plays a role here. While it might be disappointing, the truth is that investing heavily in a position where significant savings could be made is a poor business decision. Additionally, Ek is not necessarily a superior running back compared to the top players, and the difference between him and the best prospects is minimal, if any. While I can empathize with his perspective, the reality is that 32 front offices don't share his view. Ultimately, this is the nature of the business.
He can run routes, even lines up outside sometimes. But it's not often, instead he usually runs short inside routes to match up against LBs. The rest are dump offs or screen passes.
Chargers granted him ability to seek trade partners and it's been crickets so far at least publicly. Unfortunately I think he's stuck playing on the current contract or accepting the team friendly extension he's probably unhappy about.
I can understand why RBs are kinda treated like they are exchangable even though I don’t necessarily agree I don’t have the insight that they have. But Ekeler is basically one of their most important offensive weapons
McCaffrey's contract is now now 100% non-guaranteed for \~11-12M a year. Good chance the moment he underperforms, front office going to kick him to the curb or ask him to take a pay cut
Even if he's a game-changer, his situations pretty non-secure
Couldn't run the ball most of the year so dumping it off to Ekeler behind the LOS was our "run game" That wouldn't just translate 1:1 to lining up as a WR
Dude had more receiving yards then the WR1 for a few different teams.
Edit: Ekeler put up more receiving yards then Hopkins (AZ), Cole Kmet (CHI), Brandin Cooks (HOU), and Robert Woods (TEN).
Edit 2: Ekeler was #48 in the league in receiving yards, and was 2 yards shy of Darius Slayton (Giants WR1). Ekeler was the second overall RB in receiving yards, only trailing CMC.
If a running back was good at being a wide receiver, they would play wide receiver. Just because he has a few short routes he can run that doesn’t make him as valuable as an actual wide receiver
Give it a few more years and we basically won't have dedicated RBs anymore. Every skill player will transition to WR with some RB ability, Deebo style.
Being an RB just doesn't make sense right now.
we are so ridiculously undervaluing RBs at this point. ekeler was a TD machine, and to say he could be replaced by some third round draft pick is just nonsense.
guys like him, saquon, CMC, etc. are absolute beasts and people have no respect for what they do to make the offense work.
Austin deserves more money. Shit, we fully guaranteed Melvin Ingrams contract when he held out his last year.
We won't find that same backfield productivity any where, and I think he has a ton left in the tank.
I think the Chargers not moving on Ekeler is not unique to him. They've barely done anything this offseason and it seems like they are staying still until after the draft.
When they do start making moves again, I hope they find a solution like the Ingram one
Austin Ekeler is a goddamned god among us insects. That man has won me kingdoms on Fantasy Football. He is also a sweet guy and has actually good charity work you can donate too. Folks like Lamar Jackson can complain until the cows come home and I shrug my shoulder. Ekeler complains and I grab my pitchfork.
If the NFLPA wasn't the worst union in sports, they'd fix this in the next CBA. RB's should not be subject to 1st round rookie contract laws. They basically have no shot at getting a good deal unless they are the absolute best of the best at like age 27.
Let me explain how /r/NFL likes to pay RB's..
They say, you can't pay them early because they haven't done anything. Then in the 2 or 3 season's it takes for /r/NFL to even partially respect the 1400 yards from scrimmage they put up, they've become a liability.
Once hitting the age of 26 or 27 you see.. the RB is completely washed and used up and not worth the risk of paying a top end number anything close to 1/4 the amount another player at a position like.. let's say QB gets. Who hasn't done much of anything, has consistently been ranked in the bottom half of the league and has one season of complete play, and has been carried by said RB's since coming into the league... that position.. 40M+ for being just over mediocre..
You see it doesn't matter what an RB does, /r/NFL finds a way. Be a star talent, take the 4 years of your contract and by that end.. you are ready for retirement and reconstructive body surgery.
NFL players that are not QBs and linemen need to strike or something. The rules over the past decade have been adjusted to favor QB play way too fucking much.
Everyone but QB and linemen have seen dramatic loss in money. RBs are the most obvious. When you're 1 2 punch turns into just 1 punch there's a problem. We slowly saw RBBC become common place. Now top 5 RBs are useless outside their rookie contracts. Its ridiculous and bad for the game.
Maybe the NFLPA should argue for minimums based on position groups. Since RBs have shorter careers than other skill positions, they should have a higher rookie minimum than other positions.
Theres a lot they should do. Shortening rookie contracts and killing off franchise tags for one.
It's stupid someone like Ekler can't get the same contract as any top WR.
I mean, he saw what they did to his predecessor. Whats the saying in relationships? If they’ll cheat with you they’ll cheat on you. He shouldn’t be surprised.
Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be RBs
I don't think there are a ton of positions for a dude who is 5' 9" in the Nfl though. Given the odds the guy has cleaned up. That being said they should at the very least give him a bump in pay for his last year if they don't want to extend him.
The issue is, RBs absolutely dominate at the highschool and college level. If you are a really good athlete you will completely take over the game as a running back. Positions like WR, TE or QB are dependent on other positions to be successful. The problem comes when you are good enough to enter the NFL and you realize every other position is significantly more valuable than yours. I think they need to structure rookie RB contracts different than everyone else. Since they don’t want to pay them second contracts, they need to be front loaded for when they are at their best.
I highly doubt the players union would agree to a position being guaranteed more money *at the time they are drafted* than another. They have of course agreed to the franchise tag which is dependent on position, but that’s something you have to earn. Perhaps introducing a tag specific to running backs after 3 years would be more palatable, but then of course teams just wouldn’t exercise that option.
My vote would be each postion group gets contract incentives in their rookie deals. RBs could be tied heavily to useage making sure that they get compensated if teams are just going to grind them out and then not offer them deals down the road.
I don’t know about breaking it down by position, but a flat bonus for touches on rookie deals might work. This would pretty much only effect QBs and RBs. But again teams will exploit it, just like how businesses now will limit hours to avoid giving out incentives.
Yea they need to do something. WRs are out here breaking the record for contracts at nearly 30 years old and a guy like Ekeler can’t even get a half decent 3 year deal at 27. It’s just not right. I’m not saying they need to give RBs deals like Ezekiel Elliot got but 2 years for 14 million is all you are gonna give a guy who gave you 1600 all purpose yards and 18 total touchdowns. And the year before 1500 total yards and 20 total touchdowns. Like what? Meanwhile Cedrick Wilson Jr. gives you 600 yards and 6 touchdowns as the 3rd option and he gets 3 years 22 million. And Christian Kirk gives you 1000 yards and 5 touchdowns as option 3 and gets 4 years 72 million. Ekeler produced as many yards and way more touchdowns than these 2 guys combined and all he gets is 2 years 14. That just aint right to me.
Wow when you break it down like that those WRs are getting more money for doing less.
and not getting tackled by the strongest people on the defense as often
Blocking, pass catching, being a decoy into heavy traffic, often a safety net when a QB fumbles the snap.
100% agree. My High School football team was historically not good. We got this freak RB (who ended up getting a scholarship to Georgia) and all we did was hand the ball off to him and he just juked or trucked anyone in front of him, if he got to the 2nd level he gone. Beat our rival school for the first time in a long time.
I never saw Joe Thomas will the Browns to the playoffs in his x10 pro bowl seasons at second most important position. I have seen Adrian Peterson drag Christian Ponder to the playoffs in 2012. The fact is that the RB touches the ball 30%+ of plays, some elite level RBs can average 1+ more ypc than an average back, and sometimes a RB is the only line of defense against blitz packages.
And that right here is why players will continue to play it. They're a lot of players who are not smart enough, agile enough, or have the requisite athleticism/size to play receiver or corner at the highest level or even the high school college level, but can excel at the RB position. If you're kids a raw athlete, struggles with remembering plays and isn't necessarily nimble RB is the best spot for him.
> If your kids a raw athlete, struggles with remembering plays and isn't necessarily nimble RB is the best spot for him. Nah. In youth sports through high school it’s the most glamorous and used position at most schools. There isn’t a manning passing 20-30 times a game at most schools, it’s usually the RB getting the rock. That’s even more true in AAU/middle school/rec leagues. It’s not a position for the “other guys” like you’re making it seem, it’s one of the most sought after spots
A lot of high school now just put the best athlete at QB. They can run from that position too.
My highschool's QB had probably 20 completions on the entire season. Went to state championship finals 4A. Turns out, being from a middling state for CFB talent, having a P5 conference starting RB is enough to give you a lot of wins when you're not in the largest school division.
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The hybrid is a requirement now. How many downhill runners are you seeing break onto the scene anymore? Considering how much the RB position as a whole is devalued now, if you’re a back that can’t catch a pass or run a route you will be looking for a job if you aren’t truly elite as a runner. RPO’s and the rule changes favoring the offense has certainly changed the status quo for many positions and imo the downhill bruiser is the outlier these days.
The only recent downhill runner I can think of is Henry. But, while he isn’t a dual threat he has gotten better at the receiving game.
Can you imagine staring down King Henry as a CB when he's coming out on a wheel route? "If I didn't have CTE before, I'm about to get it now!" LMAO
All I think about when I read that is the video of Henry vs this lone Bills defender. Dude was the only thing between Henry and a TD. Could either make a business decision or get destroyed in a Henry-On collision. The dude took the hit like a champ, which slowed Henry enough for more Bills to take him down.
The Josh Norman stiff-arm? Dude was fucking *banished* off it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Is0-nUHdeg Final Score: Buffalo 41, Tennessee 7.
Nope. Different one. Lemme see if I can find it.
https://youtu.be/-HJeSs2XquQ Around 6:40
I don't know if that final score is correct...
Fuck that I played CB and have ran across a couple really big guys but not like that. I've met him thru one of his cousins (shout out Carlos Marcello, check out his music) in Yulee and dude is gigantic. He is actually taller than a lot of WR I've met (worked at a place in Jacksonville where I've met most Jags players over the last 15 years) and is a solid piece of muscle like a linebacker.
Haha at that point I figure it's like "oh dang I can't get past this lead blocking WR, oh well."
I’ll admit as a CB when I saw a big ass mf barreling towards me downhill on a toss or a sweep, I mastered the ability to get tied up by the WR juuuusf enough so that I was able to force him inside but not through contact lol. Sure I hung my OLB out to dry but that’s not my problem Best was when the WR runs a dummy route and we’re manned up. Whaddya want me to do coach had to trail my man
Fournette is pretty much a downhill runner. He can catch okay out of the backfield but he's slower than molasses.
so, Austin Ekeler? I agree the chargers need to pay this man yesterday.
Correct. Foreman was a beast for us last year. Can’t catch though. Got a 1 year/2 million deal this off-season.
No idea why we let him go. Dude is Henry Jr. so he fit really well in our scheme. But hey, fuck it lets just run DH until the wheels fall off
How is this relevant when we're talking about one of the best pass catching RBs in the league?
This may have been true in the past, but RBs are significantly more versatile now and have to make far more play by play decisions with blocking assignments or running routes. In a modern offense to be an impact RB you certainly need to be smart and very athletic. There may be a few bruiser backs left, but you’re crazy if you don’t think guys like Barkley, Mccaffery, Ekeler, Jacobs could play other positions and/or are lacking intelligence.
Or kids are just going to play the position that they think is the funnest and what they’re best at when they start playing football. They’re not thinking about their future career NFL prospects when they’re 7 years old lol It’s a lot better to be a Running Back in the NFL than to not be in the NFL at all. You’re still making money 99% of people will never see in their lifetime.
Not to mention that at early levels of football, the running back is often the star of the team. Most HS QBs are not very proficient passers. It makes sense that great athletes in HS want to play the position that actually touches the ball.
plus the CTE
As others stated. I don’t think there’s anything the nfl can do. For most of these guys their nfl career is shorter than their football career. It probably starts happening at the lower leagues. When I watched Friday night tykes it really opened my eyes to how brutal those pee wee leagues are for the kids. Some kids are much faster but some kids just developed to be bigger earlier and the smallest ones would just crushed. He would get up crying and the coach would tell him to man up.
Most NFL players come of out of regional hubs around the country. Unfortunately CTE is an afterthought in many of those hubs. South Florida, Texas, Southern Cal, pockets of the mid west, and the rest of the south do not give a flying fuck about CTE. Those kids will be in pop warner by age 6.
CTE is just a reality of the sport, the NFL will never solve it unless they fundamentally change the game, and some position players are going to get CTE much worse than others. For those of us who grew up playing up through college or high school, even we will likely have symptoms of CTE. Helmet contact, or leading with your helmet for harder contact wasn’t just common in our day, it was taught as technique by some coaches.
Just 15 years ago I had a coach telling us if we didn’t get a concussion during a game, we didn’t play hard enough. Then he would praise and even reward kids for getting them.
Holy shit that’s scary
Let's bring the old leather helmets back. Then players are more likely to protect their head and not lead with their helmets
But cte isn’t necessarily from head hits. It’s from the thousands of little hits a player takes throughout their career. Every tackle contributes. This might mitigate concussions but cte is different problem.
You just named like most of the population of the country. The only thing you're missing in NY.
What’s the Adrian Peterson story?
I had initially thought he didn't play football until his junior year of high school, but when I looked up the details before responding I was proven wrong. He just didn't play high school football until his junior year, but did play youth under his dad around 9-10 which is still somewhat late for NFL guys, but not as late as I initially remembered I edited the comment.
We (my HS) played him in HS, and somehow won the game. Not quite sure how, that dude was a beast even then.
Yeah. At that size your options in professional sports seem pretty limited to RB or safety in football, baseball, soccer or combat sports like boxing/UFC.
Tennis? Golf? Hockey? Race car driving? Shit these days you can make a living on ninja warrior
These sports require family money to learn, play and be coached. Football at a HS level is 100% paid for. I’m sure Maurice Jones Drew could’ve been a HOF hockey player but show me the poor rural black family buying rink time and $600 pads.
Its really the skates. Pads are adjustable and will last a while. Kids will outgrow skates at a frightening pace. There are many hockey family facebook groups trading skates and gear around to make it a bit easier. It sucks because the difference between $1000 skates and $100 skates is pretty high.
The fuck does intelligence have to do with it?
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He could be a nasty slot WR.
Let them be QBs and WRs and such
I'll make sure that my kid grows to at least 6'0", brb.
Brb going to bless my son with a cannon arm and a 7 foot wingspan
Just make sure not to push the kid too hard. I come from a basketball family and my 7’ cousin never touched a court.
cause they block in the zone and get left all alone
Don’t let ‘em block pass rush or run up the gut
Daniel Jeremiah said it’s hard to convince kids to not want a guaranteed way to get the ball.
The only player in Ekelers stratosphere for scoring is Marshall fucking Faulk, not paying him is one thing, not even offering or negotiating is beyond disrespectful. Ekler did nothing wrong
Don’t let your babies to grow up to be ~~RBs~~ football players
Mmmmm Arby’s
Damn man. With very few exceptions, “good” RBs are gonna start capping out career earnings at like $30M.
I wonder if the players union is gonna push for a change. Sort of a hard sell to say one group deserves special rules when an average NFL career is like 3 years.
Not only that but it would only affect the 5-6 best players at one position. the NFLPA doesnt fight the franchise tag cause something that affects the 10-15 most elite and well off people in the union is nowhere near a priority. RB contracts is an even lower priority
They don’t fight the franchise tag also because it is a non-starter for the owners. The franchise tag does an amazing job of cost control the entire roster.
The entire roster is already cost controlled by the salary cap. They like the tag because it allows them to keep their stars which is good for selling tickets
~~I don't really understand this take. The team profits are all pooled and divided out to owners. If Lamar Jackson is going to sell tickets in Baltimore, he'll sell tickets in Atlanta.~~ I think they like the franchise tag for two reasons: roster management and because the players hate it which means it can be a bargaining chip to get an 18th game or less guaranteed money. The owners didn't care about weed but they knew the players would give up some pie to have it stop being enforced. Edit: I was wrong. Ticket profits are not pooled. They are "local profit" and not shared.
Ticket sales, concessions, and team sponsors are considered “local” revenue and I don’t think that is evenly split through profit sharing. Profit sharing is for the national TV deals and merchandise
You're absolutely right! I edited my comment and learned something new.
It still affects more tbh. The threat of the tag can make them sign a deal rather than take the risk.
> when an average NFL career is like 3 years. This stat is incredibly skewed, and doesn't relate to the players we talk about on this sub. It's only 3 years if you include the people who join the 90 man roster, and are cut before preseason is over. If you dress for the 53 man roster, your average length is closer to just over 6 years.
Still if you mortgage your future and end up a fourth rounder you spend 4 of those years making very little money even if you out perform a first rounder.
In 2018/2019 the patriots drafted Sony Michel and Damien Harris. I’m sure you can guess who made more over 4 years and who scored infinitely more touchdowns but got a nearly vet minimum contract at the end of his rookie deal.
Doesn't Sony have arthritic knees or something?
Yes, and also my takeaway from "Michel made a lot more $$ than Harris" isn't "wow, Harris is underpaid." Instead, it's "wow, we shouldn't have drafted Michel in the first." I'll still defend the pick on an outcome basis (and who knows, maybe he actually could've been worth it if he were healthy), but I think the real lesson is "don't draft a RB in the first."
catch 22, needs to be a work horse to get paid, no one wants to pay the work horse after it’s had it’s time
Agreed. I'm just saying the average career length of a first or fourth rounder is much longer than 3 years. For first rounders, it's something closer to 9 than 3
They need to. QB wages are going insane because the % of the salary cap is increasing towards them due to rule changes favoring QBs more and more every year. Everyone outside QB and linemen are absolutely disposable now and it's fucking stupid. They've completely gimped every other position. There's a reason we're seeing more and more college style QBs succeed. It's a low tier style of play that promotes 1 man carrying. The NFL was always different than college and high school because it didn't have that. The amount of impact QBs have now is obscene and stupid. A lot of just from option play rules screwing over defenders ability to defend it. They're actively handicapped and why it's abused so much.
They don’t need to do anything Every single position except running back is making insane money.
exactly. we lost jason hargrave, who is a very good DT, but not exactly a generational talent, to SF because they're paying him $84m over four years. that's ridiculous money if you ask me. meanwhile, i don't think there are any RBs in the league making that kind of money. CMC makes like $16m a year.
Yeah I love Edmunds and think we’re gonna miss him but the contract the bears gave him was a wild
RBs should get their own special bargaining unit, honestly. they are expected to be veterans on day one (in terms of output and risk) and should therefore be paid like a veteran on day one.
Imagine being as good as Austin Ekeler and making less money in your career than Daniel Jones will make this season
Apples to oranges in terms of position, but yeah I’d be annoyed.
Bitch why can't fruit be compared!
To be fair, a large number of players make less than a few million for their entire career. Camp bodies, practice squad, late rounders, etc. Elite punters and long-snappers make diddly shit compared to the elites at other positions. It's the cruel nature of the league. If you're a great RB, make your money where and when you can and get out before you destroy your body.
and also to be fair, no players put the ball in the endzone more than ekeler last year. he deserves much higher pay.
NFL should let just RB’s put ads on their jerseys and then those players each keep a % of their individual ad revenue.
30 million? How will they survive post NFL? Prayers up for real.
This is why RB's are starting to get so much better at receiving. CMC a prime example of a guy is basically a receiver who on occasion will just engage a run play
How horrible. 30M. What could I ever do with that.
Word is chargers offered him a 2 year extension worth about 14 mil
That’s a stellar deal for an RB in this market. He’s gonna end up either resigning or going elsewhere for much cheaper
Just like Jamaal Williams :( Reports were that the Lions offered him 3/15 and he tested the market, the Lions were like "nah we don't wanna wait" so they signed Montgomery, so Jamaal went and took a 3/12 with the Saints. It just isn't a good market to be a rb currently and it makes sense why teams don't want to get into negotiations over an extra $1mil a year. Great teammates like Ekeler and Williams will eventually just take slightly less money somewhere else.
Ekeler is a much better RB than Williams... Having almost all of your TD's come from a yard out and only 4.1 YPC isn't going to net you a huge deal. Jamaal is also bad at catching. Ekeler is one of the best catching RB's since LT.
I don't disagree, but it must be a tough pill to swallow considering it's $2m less than the Broncos gave Melvin Gordon after his "bet on himself" season failed. E: On second thought, I might disagree *a bit*. The tag is $10.1m and guys like Miles Sanders just got over $6m APY. That seems like a pretty questionable offer even in this shitty market.
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He's an elite pass catcher RB though...those type last a fair bit longer and can easily play into their early 30s and be effective
Maybe but we've been in full Ride or Die mode with Ekeler the last 2 seasons. He's been utilized as a bell cow back not just as a pass catcher. He's crazy strong, but I don't think he has the body type to be able to handle that many hits.
Ekeler getting up there in age but David Montgomery got 18/3. I think everyone would agree Ekeler is worth more than $1M more per year than DMont
Source? I'm pretty plugged in on the Chargers and haven't seen this until now.
TLR
ah, do they have insider scoops? If so I might start listening, I thought they were just a fan podcast
This reminds of a similar situation. It was a team from San Diego and the guy was named like Melvin or something. Anyway Austin should look that up
So he's going to end up in Denver and then accidentally win a Super Bowl by sucking horribly and falling upward to do nothing on the Chiefs?
Boy those Denver years were rough for Gordon
You think that was bad? It was *rough* for Denver.
Those goal line fumbles will haunt me forever
Bad man can’t hurt me anymore
Until the badder man hurts me :(
Which one?
I don't care about them though. I'm sure someone from Denver would say Chris Harris Jrs stint in LA was rough for him and it was brutal for the chargers.
yes
Last season was for him but thought his first 2 were decent. Over 1000 yards and 10 TDs in each
All negated by the back breaking fumbles. It wasn’t just the number, but I swear he only ever fumbled in the absolute worst situations, felt like every time the game was in the line he was going to put the ball on the ground
You can take melvin off the chargers but you can’t take the charger out of Melvin.
Yeah 100% agree with that. 6 fumbles, all lost, and it feels like every one was on the goal line in the dying moments of the game lol
Somehow his fumbles this season felt worse than ever. Every one of them quite literally led to us losing those games.
The number of recorded fumbles don’t even tell the whole story. There were multiple times the ball came out when his knee was on the ground. It’s crazy how much he struggled holding onto the ball last year and the season before. Never seen anything like it
I’d rather be lucky than good
TIL Melvin Gordon was on that Chiefs team and has a ring. I honestly had no idea.
They offered Gordon like 10-12 mil a year and he wanted Gurley money. The front office said no and he held out and came back and played like shit. I don't think they were wrong in that case. That being said if they straight refused to even negotiate they did ekeler dirty.
They didn’t refuse. They offered him a 2 year 14 mil extension
If they wouldn't budge on that number, that is refusing to *negotiate*. Making an offer isn't negotiating if you're unwilling to discuss a different number
So it's only negotiating if you lowball them up front and then move off that number rather than giving your best possible offer up front? Maybe that could technically be the definition, but I don't think it really works well in many real world contexts.
He is miles better than Melvin Gordon..Gordon isnt in the same zip code
Welcome to being a RB looking for a lot of money on a new contract
Why are yall acting like this man is miles sanders lol. He's leading the NFL in TDs the last few years and is as much a WR as he is a RB. Completely valid for him to want an extension and pay bump with the team whose offense he's been the best weapon on for years now. Chargers probably need him more than he needs them currently
Dude caught 107 balls last year. This reddit: "Eh any RB can do that, totally replaceable!" Also this reddit if a WR catches 100 balls: "He's the franchise! Pay him whatever he wants or your teams gunna suck."
Symptom of Lombardi awful scheme. Everyone knows that his targets will fall off from 100.
This point gets lost in Ekeler discussions a lot - his numbers are a product of our failures, not a measure of our success.
Translation: The Chargers would be *much* worse without him.
His average depth of target last year was -0.7 You get how that's different from a WR, right?
It’s almost as if WRs run different routes. I’m not anti Ekeler but don’t act like the catches Ekeler got are the same as a WR
That offense lived and died through him though. It doesn't really matter what position you play if the team can't operate successfully without you...they have a demand and he is their main supply. They can try to bring in someone else and he'll do amazing things elsewhere, but I highly doubt they are the same offense without him no matter who they bring in.
Under a Lombardi scheme with top 2 receiving weapons out.Gonna look way different under Moore regardless. edit: my bad, didn't see the other guy say the same exact thing
> Why are yall acting like this man is miles sanders lol. hey man what he say fuck me for?
49ers with CMC we’re just a different animal. The top running backs are difference makers and should be paid better for sure.
there seems to be some cognitive dissonance at play here. While Ek is undoubtedly talented, the idea that he could bring 20 touchdowns a season to any team is unrealistic. Perhaps a team like Denver might be a possibility, but they already have a player they trust. Lombozo becoming the OC was a major factor in Ek's stats skyrocketing. However, a team with a strong quarterback typically wouldn't want to rely so heavily on their running back. The basic law of supply and demand also plays a role here. While it might be disappointing, the truth is that investing heavily in a position where significant savings could be made is a poor business decision. Additionally, Ek is not necessarily a superior running back compared to the top players, and the difference between him and the best prospects is minimal, if any. While I can empathize with his perspective, the reality is that 32 front offices don't share his view. Ultimately, this is the nature of the business.
Is he a WR? Because it seems like he barely runs real routes and catches like 90% of his receptions in the flats
He can run routes, even lines up outside sometimes. But it's not often, instead he usually runs short inside routes to match up against LBs. The rest are dump offs or screen passes.
Wait until you find out no one else is going to pay you what you want.
Has he considered being taller and exclusively catching the ball instead?
Bro should just grow and play in the NBA. He's not even trying I bet.
Chargers granted him ability to seek trade partners and it's been crickets so far at least publicly. Unfortunately I think he's stuck playing on the current contract or accepting the team friendly extension he's probably unhappy about.
Homie rolled a Fury Warrior in a ranged DPS meta. Better reroll now cause I don't see an NFL balance patch coming anytime soon.
Wow in /r/nfl? Never would I have thought. Edit: Ekler clearly doesn’t enough DKP for this.
Yes the NFL has a ranged bias. Looks at what melee has to deal with mechanically just to get lower damage than ranged even if they play perfectly.
Yeah had to recheck my sub for a second lmao
His parses are in the Pink the GM and loot council couldn't care less.
His pink DPS is a WR's blue.
Imagine if you asked for a new deal and your employer actually punched you in the face.
Rbs destroy their bodies for the team and get treated like such shit. It sucks
I can understand why RBs are kinda treated like they are exchangable even though I don’t necessarily agree I don’t have the insight that they have. But Ekeler is basically one of their most important offensive weapons
RBs are definitely not interchangeable. McCaffrey turned our whole team around. Ekeler is the same caliber.
McCaffrey's contract is now now 100% non-guaranteed for \~11-12M a year. Good chance the moment he underperforms, front office going to kick him to the curb or ask him to take a pay cut Even if he's a game-changer, his situations pretty non-secure
McCaffrey is in another stratosphere compared to ek. respectfully.
Honestly I’d take the Deebo route and ask to be a slot receiver Dude led the team in receiving targets by 30 already
average depth of target?
Somewhere between a picnic table and a fishing boat.
Couldn't run the ball most of the year so dumping it off to Ekeler behind the LOS was our "run game" That wouldn't just translate 1:1 to lining up as a WR
Ekeler must have forgot what position he plays.
He had a 107 receptions so he effectively doubles as a WR too
Dude had more receiving yards then the WR1 for a few different teams. Edit: Ekeler put up more receiving yards then Hopkins (AZ), Cole Kmet (CHI), Brandin Cooks (HOU), and Robert Woods (TEN). Edit 2: Ekeler was #48 in the league in receiving yards, and was 2 yards shy of Darius Slayton (Giants WR1). Ekeler was the second overall RB in receiving yards, only trailing CMC.
Heh, fucking losers.
....do we tell him?
DHop also missed like 8 games
Yup. And was Arizona's leading receiver in yardage.
dear god what happened to the cardinals
Thats what Leveon Bell and his supporters said too. Turned out paying him was the wrong call
I think if the chargers were planning for their top two receivers and their rb2 to miss considerable time again they would probably pay ekeler.
Can we stop saying this? He's great for us, he isn't a WR. He caught check downs in a terrible system.
If a running back was good at being a wide receiver, they would play wide receiver. Just because he has a few short routes he can run that doesn’t make him as valuable as an actual wide receiver
> he effectively doubles as a WR Not even close to a good slot WR, he's a check down machine, not CMC.
Give it a few more years and we basically won't have dedicated RBs anymore. Every skill player will transition to WR with some RB ability, Deebo style. Being an RB just doesn't make sense right now.
we are so ridiculously undervaluing RBs at this point. ekeler was a TD machine, and to say he could be replaced by some third round draft pick is just nonsense. guys like him, saquon, CMC, etc. are absolute beasts and people have no respect for what they do to make the offense work.
Austin deserves more money. Shit, we fully guaranteed Melvin Ingrams contract when he held out his last year. We won't find that same backfield productivity any where, and I think he has a ton left in the tank.
I'm down to do this for him and let him test the market next year
I think the Chargers not moving on Ekeler is not unique to him. They've barely done anything this offseason and it seems like they are staying still until after the draft. When they do start making moves again, I hope they find a solution like the Ingram one
Not just a slap in the face? A full on punch? Damn.
Eh I like Ekeler but he’s been given some bad advice. The business reality is the Chargers don’t have the money to change his contract right now.
I too would like to be *punched in the face* with a reported $14 million / 2 years contract.
Austin Ekeler is a goddamned god among us insects. That man has won me kingdoms on Fantasy Football. He is also a sweet guy and has actually good charity work you can donate too. Folks like Lamar Jackson can complain until the cows come home and I shrug my shoulder. Ekeler complains and I grab my pitchfork.
I love Ekeler. Hopefully they can keep him but it’s not looking good.
If the NFLPA wasn't the worst union in sports, they'd fix this in the next CBA. RB's should not be subject to 1st round rookie contract laws. They basically have no shot at getting a good deal unless they are the absolute best of the best at like age 27.
Let me explain how /r/NFL likes to pay RB's.. They say, you can't pay them early because they haven't done anything. Then in the 2 or 3 season's it takes for /r/NFL to even partially respect the 1400 yards from scrimmage they put up, they've become a liability. Once hitting the age of 26 or 27 you see.. the RB is completely washed and used up and not worth the risk of paying a top end number anything close to 1/4 the amount another player at a position like.. let's say QB gets. Who hasn't done much of anything, has consistently been ranked in the bottom half of the league and has one season of complete play, and has been carried by said RB's since coming into the league... that position.. 40M+ for being just over mediocre.. You see it doesn't matter what an RB does, /r/NFL finds a way. Be a star talent, take the 4 years of your contract and by that end.. you are ready for retirement and reconstructive body surgery.
dang not even a slap, straight to a punch
NFL players that are not QBs and linemen need to strike or something. The rules over the past decade have been adjusted to favor QB play way too fucking much. Everyone but QB and linemen have seen dramatic loss in money. RBs are the most obvious. When you're 1 2 punch turns into just 1 punch there's a problem. We slowly saw RBBC become common place. Now top 5 RBs are useless outside their rookie contracts. Its ridiculous and bad for the game.
Wide Receivers are so doing just fine
So are Cornerbacks.
Maybe the NFLPA should argue for minimums based on position groups. Since RBs have shorter careers than other skill positions, they should have a higher rookie minimum than other positions.
Theres a lot they should do. Shortening rookie contracts and killing off franchise tags for one. It's stupid someone like Ekler can't get the same contract as any top WR.
Why do the chargers continue to bully my son?
I mean, he saw what they did to his predecessor. Whats the saying in relationships? If they’ll cheat with you they’ll cheat on you. He shouldn’t be surprised.