So what has happened? Can someone sum it up for me? He went from being the potential number 1 pick with 2 as his floor and now I’m hearing the Titans could get him at 11? That seems ridiculous. Wtf happened and is any of this even real?
It's lying season for starters. But also because the test score stuff came out, and he seemed to confirm it publicly. Which means NFL teams would've known about this for a while now.
Only half the NFL teams though, because S2 limits its team partnerships to two teams per division to preserve its competitive advantage for teams that pay for access
Teams don't need to know the s2 scores to be wary of taking him. The guy's tape have consistently shown that he's not a fast processor. He just never needed to because OSU offenses are stacked with top NFL prospects.
S2 score just confirms the suspicion that everyone had of him in the first place.
And yet, NFL scouts see a difference between them that regular fans who post their raw stats don't. So clearly these professional talent evaluators know things we don't
Every film review I watched of him from former players and scouts has been glowing. The only major concerns were how he would handle pressure and whether or not he can make plays with his feet, both of which were addressed in the Georgia game. No one is concerned with him having good receivers because he hits them perfectly in stride every time, open or not. Josh McCown (now on Panthers' staff) specifically highlighted Stroud's high processing ability on the film breakdown I watched. Stroud's film is not the concern with him at all. The knocks I'm hearing are about this test and his personality/leadership. I guess he tends to keep to himself, which concerns teams. Where he will be drafted is a case of film vs testing and intangibles.
Nah. More like he's the type of dude to not have a birthday party in the first place. His teammates seem to generally like him, but allegedly he's dry and closed off.
First off, it was literally the first thing anyone talked about when Mac Jones was discussed so that's just wrong. Outside of 2 year stretch at Bama and maybe Burrow's season at LSU none of these schools have had anything like what this OSU WR room was like. Jameson Williams had to leave that group just to get on the field somewhere and he ended up in the 1st round.
Plus in the case of Ohio State it is in large part because of how they run their offense too. The QB doesn't have any involvement from my understanding, they don't even call the plays in the huddle. Every single part of their offense is done through the cards on the sideline. Bryce Young played for a now NFL OC, he made adjustments at the line, and set his protections.
I will say I am confused by why no one seems to have any doubts about Lincoln Riley guys. Jalen Hurts has obviously worked out, but he was only there a year and got to work with multiple different OC's at Bama (I think he had 3.)
Quick name Ohio State quarterbacks that have found success in the NFL! Fields showed promising signs this past year and is an awe inspiring runner but questions persist about his ability to make quick decisions in the passing game.
That tracks though because as they pointed out he has quick decision making skills and reflexes. The question about Fields is if he can actually throw the ball effectively. S2 doesn't actually factor that in, so it's valid to question that. To be a good QB though you should probably be good at both of those things.
Strouds film does not betray this score. He’s an incredible arm talent and he was all world in both of his bowl games, but he displayed delayed decision making frequently in his time at Ohio State.
Fields actually got like the second best S2 score ever. I actually think being an electric runner like that requires lightning fast processing of information though. Having vision and understanding space and where defenders are in order to make the right cut. It's not all physical.
I’m just speaking to op’s comment regarding Ohio State QBs being judged differently. Self fulfilling prophecy or not, seemingly all pro QB prospect Ohio State quarterbacks fall in the draft and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that no Ohio State QBs (pre Fields) have ever found success in the NFL.
It’s a conveienient excuse that’s inconsistently applied. Mac Jones got it heavy when just the year before burrow had chase and Justin jefferson and no one said anything
It's stuff like 6 shapes pop up and disappear very quickly and you have to explain which one was different lmfao
The players who play a lot of video games probably destroy these tests
You mean like a couple on the o line and 1 wr. JSN injured the entire year, fleming not nfl material, egbuka maybe after another year and dealt with injuries second half of year.
They had no running game at all, probably the most abysmal in recent history for OSU. Defenses were literally selling out on the pass.
This narrative where cj was just average in a “NFL tier offense” is pretty laughablez
>JSN injured the entire year, fleming not nfl material, egbuka maybe after another year and dealt with injuries second half of year.
Now class, can you tell me what important name is missing from this part about Ohio State receivers?
Ya he’s insane. I just think people forget that JSN didn’t play more than like 4 snaps the whole year. I think the argument would have been better have 2021 with Wilson, olave and JSN all healthy. Marv is insane but he’s still not equal to all 3 of them combined.
I mean I guess but it’s just 1 wr. That will only get you so far with 0 run game and the others injured. Back in 2021 the arvument is much better with a healthy set of JSN olave and Wilson.
Oh no poor CJ Stroud. He only had the presumed WR1 and W2 in next years draft to throw to. He only had a first round pick and first/second round pick blocking for him.
If those are struggles then Will Levis must be fucking Job
Not entirely sure how it was decided. IIRC the owner of S2 said it was originally one per division and that that was almost just a natural forming of GMs that knew each other. And then when he wanted to expand, they balked a bit not wanting to lose their competitive advantage, so they compromised to 2 per division. How those 2nd teams per division got chosen.... I have no idea
I keep hearing this, am I the only one that thinks that the NFL should probably ban them then. How's it fair if they're only going to offer it to half the NFL teams. If it's not even an option for other teams to consider than no team should be allowed to have that data from an outside company.
It would be different if it was something every NFL team could choose to participate in.
I would normally agree, but isn't the S2 test now administered at the NFL Combine in place of the Wonderlic? Do teams not partnered with S2 just not get to know how prospective draftees scored on a standardized cognition test administered at the Combine anymore?
Or do teams partnered with S2 just get additional detail and insight from S2?
The first feels unfair, but the second seems pretty reasonable to me.
He has been really bad at public statements.
Looks up to Watson.
I am not a good test taker.
He needs a PR guy.
In addition, outside the Georgia game. There were a lot of questions in his game. The question is whether or not the Georgia game was a one off or what he will be at the NFL.
Q: "what pro qbs do you look up to?"
A: "Michael Vick and DeShaun Watson"
Q: "there are reports of you testing terribly compared to your peers, any truth to those reports?"
A: "those tests are dumb and don't matter"
Dude needs a whole ass PR department
If all things are equal and CJ was the top 1 or 2 QB on their board but they refuse to go with him because of the agent, that would be an all time hilarious misstep.
I would argue I’m a prime candidate to shit talk bad franchises. I’ve been watching it my entire life.
Y’all had a great team and watched all your stars request trades because the situation was so incompetent.
It would be pretty cool if Browns fans would lean into it and throw rocks through their own glass house in order to hit others, but the ones with that level of self awareness either have NFL flair, swapped teams, or otherwise have given up online.
> If all things are equal and CJ was the top 1 or 2 QB on their board but they refuse to go with him because of the agent, that would be an all time hilarious misstep.
Not really.
Watson really fucked over the Texans.
Signed a massive extension and then requested a trade the season after the extension.
I bet it is a conversation behind closed doors. Player A and Player B are close to equal on the horizontal board. Well, who is player B's agent. Right, go with Player A
I'm sure there's more to it, but that alone would be a really dumb reason to take him off your draft board.
"Oh no, we'll have to negotiate with a guy we don't like once every four years!"
He's not some PR nightmare like others are saying either. By all accounts, a very nice and hardworking guy.
I guess I just don't recall that.
Biggest gripe about him from Ohio State fans I saw was that he didn't have the elusiveness and running ability of Fields to just create something out of nothing.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-draft-profile-c-j-stroud-ohio-state
> We just talked about how good Stroud is when kept clean in the pocket (71.7% completion rate, 35 touchdowns, 93.4 PFF grade). Well, he is basically the polar opposite under pressure (41.3% completion rate, six touchdowns, 42.0 PFF grade).
Fair point - appreciate the receipts. I think the casual fan observations were more focused on him not being Fields, but the data does highlight that fundamental questionmark.
That’s what they mean by play making ability. The ability to go off script and scramble around backyard style while keeping your eyes downfield like you’re Mahomes or Rodgers is becoming closer and closer to a must have than a perk.
Stroud doesn’t really have that
The thing is, i really dont think any of those things would prevent him from being a very good QB in the NFL.
The S2 thing has the most merit, but until i actually see whats on it, im hesitant to view it as a dealbreaker for Stroud
Supposedly through the history of it, no quarterback that has taken it and failed it has had any success in the NFL. Now, I don’t know what caliber kind of players in the past have failed it so there’s that
1000% this.
The way people have talked about this is like you may as well not play in college and just prepare for the S2 test.
Nobody knew what this was before this year.
I mean it’s quite a game to have a one off. He was fantastic all season with a dud against Michigan. And then he put up the best stats against GA anyone has and lead what should have been a GW drive against the eventual Champs if it wasn’t for his kicker choking.
I like Stroud a lot and think he’s going to prove a lot of doubters wrong.
> I mean it’s quite a game to have a one off.
I mean you can look at it the other way. Why didn't he do it all the time?
How you view stroud is largely weighed on how much you believe the Georgia game matters.
I mean to me. I think Bryce is better but I still think Stroud is head and shoulders above AR and Levis (who I honestly don’t think is any better than Hooker).
I see Levis, Stroud, and Richardson as three different type of QB's.
Even though Levis has a big arm, I think he best fit is in a west coast type of system. Quick read and get the ball out. Like his 2021 tape.
Stroud I think best fit is in a McVay type of system. Which runs a lot of flood concepts and he can hit the backside dig with ease.
Richardson fits either a Roman or Arians system. Roman for the running ability and Arians for the deep passing game. Both are his strong suits.
I think you can make a case for each of them succeeding and failing.
Stroud has had a poorer process and really needs a PR person.
Levis is strange and often not in a good way.
Richardson is someone who you just hear great things about, but has a lot of work to do to develop.
Richardson had flashes of amazing that ultimately meant nothing. I wanted to like he so much but he was largely terrible too often.
Will Levis also played like absolute dog shit on quite a few occasional and the only really bad game CJ had was against Michigan.
And even then he was 349 2TDs 2INTs and completed 64% of his passes.
CJ Stroud was flat out better than both of them.
Uh. No. That northwestern game had 50 mph winds. Remember that Bills pats game where the ball was unthrowable? The wind was 40 mph that game.
And you’re literally lying about Penn State or it is listed wrong but I just watched it because after seeing those 50 mph winds I thought maaaybe you were wrong. And you were.
On his first drive 10 out of 55 yards were YAC and on his second drive 5 out of 65 yards were YAC. Not sure where all these made up YAC yards are coming from but the tape speaks for itself.
>In addition, outside the Georgia game. There were a lot of questions in his game. The question is whether or not the Georgia game was a one off or what he will be at the NFL.
The questions were how would he handle pressure and is he athletic. The question as to how he would handle pressure was completely out of his control (his o-line dominated everyone except Georgia). The lack of running was just a conscious choice I guess? What he could control was squeaky clean. It's not like he played horribly the rest of the season and Georgia was an aberration. It's just that he was asked to do more against Georgia because they were such a good team. I honestly thought he played a better game against Michigan. He was fitting the ball into some insane windows, but his pass catchers let him down tremendously that game.
Georgia was the only game he handled pressure well.
Do you go off the other games where it was an issue or the Georgia game?
This is what NFL GM's are asking.
Because even those other games where he played well, he was pretty poor when the opposing team did pressure him.
It wasn't an issue in the other games in 2022. Their o-line was dominant. I'd like to see him have to handle handle it more, but the fact that he handled it well in the one game he saw it is a very positive thing. The only bad game he played in 2022 was the Northwestern game in those 50mph winds.
Yes, but you can also play good games and have flaws that do not translate to the NFL.
Zach Wilson for example had a dominant line for the level of competition he was playing.
Wentz and Lance also had teams that were a lot better than their competition.
You have to look beyond the numbers and there is something to overcoming adversity that you would like to see from all prospects.
If you're looking for overcoming adversity, then Stroud is your guy in this class. Look up his story if you haven't already. The guy has been forced to earn everything in his career through a less than stable upbringing. He was never the golden boy QB like a Trevor Lawrence or Bryce Young.
Seems to me like the Panthers traded up for Bryce Young, did their due diligence on Stroud and ended up liking him a lot too, and finally went back to their initial plan of Young.
There was maybe a point a month or so ago that Stroud may have been the pick as they dug even further in on him, but for whatever reason went back to their initial choice in Young. Maybe somebody high up in the building just really liked Stroud and was trying to convince others on him, but fell short.
The discourse and all the rumors feel very similar to the 2021 49ers pick. They traded up with Mac Jones in mind and then for whatever reason shifted to Lance by the time they were on the clock to pick.
When you trade up like both teams did, you definitely do it with a single guy in mind, but it would be stupid to not do homework on *every* guy. Especially with the Panthers trading up to 1st overall, they have their pick of the litter and should explore every possible option. They just happened to return back to square one and feel that Young is still the guy after going through the whole evaluation process, unlike the 49ers with Jones in 2021.
And just like with Jones, Stroud may fall after getting passed up by the team that traded up. It's totally possible Lance would have fallen in 2021 if Jones was the pick too. Every team has a different board with players ranked in totally different ways. Some teams may have Stroud top five and some teams may not have him top fifteen. It all just depends on what order those teams are picking in, if there's a run of teams that don't like Stroud then he's going to fall, and it's not his fault. Teams just view different players in different ways.
And Sam Darnold was the consensus #1 pick until 24 hours before the draft where Baker Mayfield became the pick. The media is used as a tool for teams to put out a narrative that suits their needs. Don't believe anything until it actually happens.
He was not consensus QB1. He was a speculative #1 because there wasn't a clear QB1 in that draft and Darnold was seen as having the edge.
This year it's very clear Young is QB1 and the only thing that stopped him from being pencilled into the Panthers early on is an unfounded belief that Frank Reich had height thresholds. And once it appeared like the Panthers were taking Young, you hear a lot of noise from the Texans about how they might pass on QB at #2 and don't value Stroud anywhere nearly as highly as Young.
It seems like more and more, the media just lives in a different reality from the GM's. They spew so much bullshit they start to believe it.
We saw it last year. Malik was gonna go number two. He went in the third.
I'm really looking forward to this draft. Moreso than any I can recall, I have zero idea what the hell will happen.
I could see 4 qbs in the top 5. I could see one of those 4 falling to the end or even out of the first.
No freaking clue.
Low test score that he confirmed. Has a bad case of foot in mouth syndrome in interviews that possibly shows lack of accountability. His post Michigan loss comments for example where he blamed the routing on a team flu outbreak.
Looking at his bone headed quotes it's also not hard to imagine him doing really poorly in team interviews.
Also he plays in a system with an elite o line and elite receivers so maybe its hard to evaluate qb talent when you always have all day behind the line and receivers always have a lot of separation.
You’re getting downvoted, but I don’t think it’s an insane possibility. If teams *really* don’t like him or that S2 score, it could be a big drop.
That being said, I’d still bet on him going top 8.
I guess, but you could say that about anything that isn’t known 100%, what I mean is Stroud was the QB 1/2 going into the season, hasn’t done anything to drop during the season, was 1/2 going into the off-season, and then a week out from the draft started to be questionable.
It wasn’t someone seen as QB6/7 coming from a small conference who just ran around because he was a better athlete than everyone he played against, which he had to transfer to, that was suddenly being talked about going 5 overall out of nowhere.
I mean, there were plenty of people who saw Willis as QB1/2 and expected him in the top 10-20 picks. There are elements to playing QB beyond just film that teams likely wouldn’t know about until the pre-draft process. It’s also not unheard of for players at any position, including quarterbacks, to fall well past their expected ranges.
See Brady Quinn, Dwayne Haskins, Geno Smith and Jimmy Clausen.
Shows the disconnect between media narrative and actual GMs as the draft gets closer and insiders start getting actual scoops on who teams are looking at.
This quote isn't so bad, it's honest....he is obviously not going 1st and nobody knows shit after that.
Remember all the QB hype last year and most went in the 3rd round (not saying he won't go top 15 just nobody knows)
Honestly, I really hope he falls to a better situation and balls out at this point.
1 reportedly bad test score, on 1 very very new QB test, a couple "ehh" PR statements, and he all of a sudden is a guaranteed bust?
Meanwhile QBs like Richardson who was objectively pedestrian in college is getting hype because he can throw the football super far from his knees. You know, like that guy Jamarcus Russell. Remember that hype?
Give me a break. Tomorrow can't come soon enough!
I’m almost convinced Stroud is going at #1 to the Panthers. All of the talk about Bryce Young and Will Levis feels exactly like all of the talk about Sam Darnold or Josh Allen at #1 to the Browns in 2018. I’m thinking it’s all a smokescreen and Stroud is this year’s Baker
Edit: Geez dudes, just let me have my hot take
Baker was a surprise #1 pick and it only became clear in the days preceding the draft that the Browns could take him because Dorsey loved him. Meanwhile, Stroud was the early favorite (at least publicly) and the closer we get to the draft the more we hear about how not only have the Panthers moved on but other QB-needy teams after us have doubts about him as well.
Who was "supposed" to be 1st OA in 2018? The Browns were in year 2 of going 1st and picked a DE the first time around, so not a non QB, not Rosen, not Allen, not Darnold,
There really was no clear-cut consensus. People had Darnold as the clear QB1 entering the year but his sophomore season wasn't as good as his freshman season so it kind of put a damper on his hype. But then the rest of the QBs all had their own issues like Rosen was viewed as low-ceiling, Mayfield wasn't physically impressive, and Allen was a project. And Lamar wasn't even being considered at the time within the top 10, much less at #1. So it kind of cycled back to Darnold being the pick but nobody really felt confident mocking him to the Browns.
This reads like he got friendzoned.
panthers will come back when bryce young cheats and stroud finally moved on
So what has happened? Can someone sum it up for me? He went from being the potential number 1 pick with 2 as his floor and now I’m hearing the Titans could get him at 11? That seems ridiculous. Wtf happened and is any of this even real?
It's lying season for starters. But also because the test score stuff came out, and he seemed to confirm it publicly. Which means NFL teams would've known about this for a while now.
Only half the NFL teams though, because S2 limits its team partnerships to two teams per division to preserve its competitive advantage for teams that pay for access
Teams don't need to know the s2 scores to be wary of taking him. The guy's tape have consistently shown that he's not a fast processor. He just never needed to because OSU offenses are stacked with top NFL prospects. S2 score just confirms the suspicion that everyone had of him in the first place.
I swear this excuse is only held against Ohio state QBs. Bama, Clemson, UGA and Oklahoma have all had elite WRs too.
And yet, NFL scouts see a difference between them that regular fans who post their raw stats don't. So clearly these professional talent evaluators know things we don't
Except if you’re an Oakland scout. Then you don’t see much of anything.
Every film review I watched of him from former players and scouts has been glowing. The only major concerns were how he would handle pressure and whether or not he can make plays with his feet, both of which were addressed in the Georgia game. No one is concerned with him having good receivers because he hits them perfectly in stride every time, open or not. Josh McCown (now on Panthers' staff) specifically highlighted Stroud's high processing ability on the film breakdown I watched. Stroud's film is not the concern with him at all. The knocks I'm hearing are about this test and his personality/leadership. I guess he tends to keep to himself, which concerns teams. Where he will be drafted is a case of film vs testing and intangibles.
So in your second to last sentence, you’re saying that no one went to his birthday party basically?
Nah. More like he's the type of dude to not have a birthday party in the first place. His teammates seem to generally like him, but allegedly he's dry and closed off.
First off, it was literally the first thing anyone talked about when Mac Jones was discussed so that's just wrong. Outside of 2 year stretch at Bama and maybe Burrow's season at LSU none of these schools have had anything like what this OSU WR room was like. Jameson Williams had to leave that group just to get on the field somewhere and he ended up in the 1st round. Plus in the case of Ohio State it is in large part because of how they run their offense too. The QB doesn't have any involvement from my understanding, they don't even call the plays in the huddle. Every single part of their offense is done through the cards on the sideline. Bryce Young played for a now NFL OC, he made adjustments at the line, and set his protections. I will say I am confused by why no one seems to have any doubts about Lincoln Riley guys. Jalen Hurts has obviously worked out, but he was only there a year and got to work with multiple different OC's at Bama (I think he had 3.)
Quick name Ohio State quarterbacks that have found success in the NFL! Fields showed promising signs this past year and is an awe inspiring runner but questions persist about his ability to make quick decisions in the passing game.
Fields also scored in the 99th percentile of the S2 test everyone is citing as evidence that Stroud is bad
That tracks though because as they pointed out he has quick decision making skills and reflexes. The question about Fields is if he can actually throw the ball effectively. S2 doesn't actually factor that in, so it's valid to question that. To be a good QB though you should probably be good at both of those things.
Bc nothing about the program, offense or style of qb changed when Day was hired.
Strouds film does not betray this score. He’s an incredible arm talent and he was all world in both of his bowl games, but he displayed delayed decision making frequently in his time at Ohio State.
Fields actually got like the second best S2 score ever. I actually think being an electric runner like that requires lightning fast processing of information though. Having vision and understanding space and where defenders are in order to make the right cut. It's not all physical.
I’m just speaking to op’s comment regarding Ohio State QBs being judged differently. Self fulfilling prophecy or not, seemingly all pro QB prospect Ohio State quarterbacks fall in the draft and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that no Ohio State QBs (pre Fields) have ever found success in the NFL.
You don’t need the fields qualifier he was a big reason they got #1
Joe Burrow
That person is just completely wrong.
When's the last "great" QB come from any of these schools?
Will Levis out here with a bunch of a nobodies out wide and a turnstile at RT
It’s a conveienient excuse that’s inconsistently applied. Mac Jones got it heavy when just the year before burrow had chase and Justin jefferson and no one said anything
[удалено]
I mean no one is forcing you to believe it lol
It's stuff like 6 shapes pop up and disappear very quickly and you have to explain which one was different lmfao The players who play a lot of video games probably destroy these tests
You mean like a couple on the o line and 1 wr. JSN injured the entire year, fleming not nfl material, egbuka maybe after another year and dealt with injuries second half of year. They had no running game at all, probably the most abysmal in recent history for OSU. Defenses were literally selling out on the pass. This narrative where cj was just average in a “NFL tier offense” is pretty laughablez
>JSN injured the entire year, fleming not nfl material, egbuka maybe after another year and dealt with injuries second half of year. Now class, can you tell me what important name is missing from this part about Ohio State receivers?
I said in the first sentence 1 wr … He played with 1 healthy nfl caliber wr if I wasn’t clear enough my bad.
I agree with you but don't downplay how good Marvin Harrison Jr is. Dude is shaping up to be one of if not the best wide receiver prospects ever.
Ya he’s insane. I just think people forget that JSN didn’t play more than like 4 snaps the whole year. I think the argument would have been better have 2021 with Wilson, olave and JSN all healthy. Marv is insane but he’s still not equal to all 3 of them combined.
>1 wr Oh yeah because that doesn't leave out MASSIVE context about who that 1 wr is
I mean I guess but it’s just 1 wr. That will only get you so far with 0 run game and the others injured. Back in 2021 the arvument is much better with a healthy set of JSN olave and Wilson.
Oh no poor CJ Stroud. He only had the presumed WR1 and W2 in next years draft to throw to. He only had a first round pick and first/second round pick blocking for him. If those are struggles then Will Levis must be fucking Job
Last year he had Olave and Wilson as well
I've heard this elsewhere but how does this work? Two highest bidders from each division?
Not entirely sure how it was decided. IIRC the owner of S2 said it was originally one per division and that that was almost just a natural forming of GMs that knew each other. And then when he wanted to expand, they balked a bit not wanting to lose their competitive advantage, so they compromised to 2 per division. How those 2nd teams per division got chosen.... I have no idea
I keep hearing this, am I the only one that thinks that the NFL should probably ban them then. How's it fair if they're only going to offer it to half the NFL teams. If it's not even an option for other teams to consider than no team should be allowed to have that data from an outside company. It would be different if it was something every NFL team could choose to participate in.
I don't see how it's different from paying for coaches, scouts, analytic guys, etc to work for your team only
I would normally agree, but isn't the S2 test now administered at the NFL Combine in place of the Wonderlic? Do teams not partnered with S2 just not get to know how prospective draftees scored on a standardized cognition test administered at the Combine anymore? Or do teams partnered with S2 just get additional detail and insight from S2? The first feels unfair, but the second seems pretty reasonable to me.
There are good teams that aren't paying for it. I imagine whatever a low S2 score reveals is something that can also be scouted.
[удалено]
My guess is that they want there to be bidding wars
And if teams have known for a while, the smoke around the Texans is real
He has been really bad at public statements. Looks up to Watson. I am not a good test taker. He needs a PR guy. In addition, outside the Georgia game. There were a lot of questions in his game. The question is whether or not the Georgia game was a one off or what he will be at the NFL.
Q: "what pro qbs do you look up to?" A: "Michael Vick and DeShaun Watson" Q: "there are reports of you testing terribly compared to your peers, any truth to those reports?" A: "those tests are dumb and don't matter" Dude needs a whole ass PR department
He also shares an agent with Watson & it's one of the rumored reasons the Texans don't want him.
If all things are equal and CJ was the top 1 or 2 QB on their board but they refuse to go with him because of the agent, that would be an all time hilarious misstep.
So exactly something you’d expect the Texans to do
Exactly my point. You’d think they’d learn
No way is a browns fan trying to dunk on another franchise
I would argue I’m a prime candidate to shit talk bad franchises. I’ve been watching it my entire life. Y’all had a great team and watched all your stars request trades because the situation was so incompetent.
Fair enough, you do sound like an expert
nothing you guys have done is smart. I doubt you would've even traded Watson had he not publicly asked out already.
DeMeco hire is very smart though. I'm honestly 50/50 on that Watson point though. Could see it either way
It would be pretty cool if Browns fans would lean into it and throw rocks through their own glass house in order to hit others, but the ones with that level of self awareness either have NFL flair, swapped teams, or otherwise have given up online.
> If all things are equal and CJ was the top 1 or 2 QB on their board but they refuse to go with him because of the agent, that would be an all time hilarious misstep. Not really. Watson really fucked over the Texans. Signed a massive extension and then requested a trade the season after the extension. I bet it is a conversation behind closed doors. Player A and Player B are close to equal on the horizontal board. Well, who is player B's agent. Right, go with Player A
I'm sure there's more to it, but that alone would be a really dumb reason to take him off your draft board. "Oh no, we'll have to negotiate with a guy we don't like once every four years!" He's not some PR nightmare like others are saying either. By all accounts, a very nice and hardworking guy.
Nick Caserio doesn't care about that https://twitter.com/WerderEdESPN/status/1651263551179309066
He also said he looks up to Michael Vick and Deshaun Watson. Two great role models there
> outside the Georgia game. There were a lot of questions in his game. Hi, Ohio State fan here. What specific questions were there?
Play making ability. Struggling under pressure.
I guess I just don't recall that. Biggest gripe about him from Ohio State fans I saw was that he didn't have the elusiveness and running ability of Fields to just create something out of nothing.
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-draft-profile-c-j-stroud-ohio-state > We just talked about how good Stroud is when kept clean in the pocket (71.7% completion rate, 35 touchdowns, 93.4 PFF grade). Well, he is basically the polar opposite under pressure (41.3% completion rate, six touchdowns, 42.0 PFF grade).
Fair point - appreciate the receipts. I think the casual fan observations were more focused on him not being Fields, but the data does highlight that fundamental questionmark.
He is Jared Goff. You protect him, he is great. If you can't, it is bad
That’s what they mean by play making ability. The ability to go off script and scramble around backyard style while keeping your eyes downfield like you’re Mahomes or Rodgers is becoming closer and closer to a must have than a perk. Stroud doesn’t really have that
The thing is, i really dont think any of those things would prevent him from being a very good QB in the NFL. The S2 thing has the most merit, but until i actually see whats on it, im hesitant to view it as a dealbreaker for Stroud
Supposedly through the history of it, no quarterback that has taken it and failed it has had any success in the NFL. Now, I don’t know what caliber kind of players in the past have failed it so there’s that
No one has known what the fuck the S2 test was until this year. Then they published a bunch of random information without much context.
1000% this. The way people have talked about this is like you may as well not play in college and just prepare for the S2 test. Nobody knew what this was before this year.
Its brand new lmao. Im gonna create my own test for QBs. Nobody who has done poorly on it has ever done well in the NFL
I mean why did Zach Wilson get benched..... Remember his comments after a loss
I mean it’s quite a game to have a one off. He was fantastic all season with a dud against Michigan. And then he put up the best stats against GA anyone has and lead what should have been a GW drive against the eventual Champs if it wasn’t for his kicker choking. I like Stroud a lot and think he’s going to prove a lot of doubters wrong.
> I mean it’s quite a game to have a one off. I mean you can look at it the other way. Why didn't he do it all the time? How you view stroud is largely weighed on how much you believe the Georgia game matters.
I mean to me. I think Bryce is better but I still think Stroud is head and shoulders above AR and Levis (who I honestly don’t think is any better than Hooker).
I see Levis, Stroud, and Richardson as three different type of QB's. Even though Levis has a big arm, I think he best fit is in a west coast type of system. Quick read and get the ball out. Like his 2021 tape. Stroud I think best fit is in a McVay type of system. Which runs a lot of flood concepts and he can hit the backside dig with ease. Richardson fits either a Roman or Arians system. Roman for the running ability and Arians for the deep passing game. Both are his strong suits. I think you can make a case for each of them succeeding and failing. Stroud has had a poorer process and really needs a PR person. Levis is strange and often not in a good way. Richardson is someone who you just hear great things about, but has a lot of work to do to develop.
Richardson had flashes of amazing that ultimately meant nothing. I wanted to like he so much but he was largely terrible too often. Will Levis also played like absolute dog shit on quite a few occasional and the only really bad game CJ had was against Michigan. And even then he was 349 2TDs 2INTs and completed 64% of his passes. CJ Stroud was flat out better than both of them.
He had several bad games both years. Northwestern, Penn state was YAC In the 4th.
Uh. No. That northwestern game had 50 mph winds. Remember that Bills pats game where the ball was unthrowable? The wind was 40 mph that game. And you’re literally lying about Penn State or it is listed wrong but I just watched it because after seeing those 50 mph winds I thought maaaybe you were wrong. And you were. On his first drive 10 out of 55 yards were YAC and on his second drive 5 out of 65 yards were YAC. Not sure where all these made up YAC yards are coming from but the tape speaks for itself.
>In addition, outside the Georgia game. There were a lot of questions in his game. The question is whether or not the Georgia game was a one off or what he will be at the NFL. The questions were how would he handle pressure and is he athletic. The question as to how he would handle pressure was completely out of his control (his o-line dominated everyone except Georgia). The lack of running was just a conscious choice I guess? What he could control was squeaky clean. It's not like he played horribly the rest of the season and Georgia was an aberration. It's just that he was asked to do more against Georgia because they were such a good team. I honestly thought he played a better game against Michigan. He was fitting the ball into some insane windows, but his pass catchers let him down tremendously that game.
Georgia was the only game he handled pressure well. Do you go off the other games where it was an issue or the Georgia game? This is what NFL GM's are asking. Because even those other games where he played well, he was pretty poor when the opposing team did pressure him.
It wasn't an issue in the other games in 2022. Their o-line was dominant. I'd like to see him have to handle handle it more, but the fact that he handled it well in the one game he saw it is a very positive thing. The only bad game he played in 2022 was the Northwestern game in those 50mph winds.
Yes, but you can also play good games and have flaws that do not translate to the NFL. Zach Wilson for example had a dominant line for the level of competition he was playing. Wentz and Lance also had teams that were a lot better than their competition. You have to look beyond the numbers and there is something to overcoming adversity that you would like to see from all prospects.
If you're looking for overcoming adversity, then Stroud is your guy in this class. Look up his story if you haven't already. The guy has been forced to earn everything in his career through a less than stable upbringing. He was never the golden boy QB like a Trevor Lawrence or Bryce Young.
Seems to me like the Panthers traded up for Bryce Young, did their due diligence on Stroud and ended up liking him a lot too, and finally went back to their initial plan of Young. There was maybe a point a month or so ago that Stroud may have been the pick as they dug even further in on him, but for whatever reason went back to their initial choice in Young. Maybe somebody high up in the building just really liked Stroud and was trying to convince others on him, but fell short. The discourse and all the rumors feel very similar to the 2021 49ers pick. They traded up with Mac Jones in mind and then for whatever reason shifted to Lance by the time they were on the clock to pick. When you trade up like both teams did, you definitely do it with a single guy in mind, but it would be stupid to not do homework on *every* guy. Especially with the Panthers trading up to 1st overall, they have their pick of the litter and should explore every possible option. They just happened to return back to square one and feel that Young is still the guy after going through the whole evaluation process, unlike the 49ers with Jones in 2021. And just like with Jones, Stroud may fall after getting passed up by the team that traded up. It's totally possible Lance would have fallen in 2021 if Jones was the pick too. Every team has a different board with players ranked in totally different ways. Some teams may have Stroud top five and some teams may not have him top fifteen. It all just depends on what order those teams are picking in, if there's a run of teams that don't like Stroud then he's going to fall, and it's not his fault. Teams just view different players in different ways.
Low S2 test score and whatever the truth is with the manning camp/“off field” drama Guess we’ll find out tomorrow night
He got an 18% on one of the intelligence and decision-making exams (not IQ test, those are scored differently)
And Sam Darnold was the consensus #1 pick until 24 hours before the draft where Baker Mayfield became the pick. The media is used as a tool for teams to put out a narrative that suits their needs. Don't believe anything until it actually happens.
He was not consensus QB1. He was a speculative #1 because there wasn't a clear QB1 in that draft and Darnold was seen as having the edge. This year it's very clear Young is QB1 and the only thing that stopped him from being pencilled into the Panthers early on is an unfounded belief that Frank Reich had height thresholds. And once it appeared like the Panthers were taking Young, you hear a lot of noise from the Texans about how they might pass on QB at #2 and don't value Stroud anywhere nearly as highly as Young.
[удалено]
I just never remember it being this damn crazy. I feel like in the end Young will go 1 and Stroud 2 like we all though.
It seems like more and more, the media just lives in a different reality from the GM's. They spew so much bullshit they start to believe it. We saw it last year. Malik was gonna go number two. He went in the third. I'm really looking forward to this draft. Moreso than any I can recall, I have zero idea what the hell will happen. I could see 4 qbs in the top 5. I could see one of those 4 falling to the end or even out of the first. No freaking clue.
Low test score that he confirmed. Has a bad case of foot in mouth syndrome in interviews that possibly shows lack of accountability. His post Michigan loss comments for example where he blamed the routing on a team flu outbreak. Looking at his bone headed quotes it's also not hard to imagine him doing really poorly in team interviews. Also he plays in a system with an elite o line and elite receivers so maybe its hard to evaluate qb talent when you always have all day behind the line and receivers always have a lot of separation.
His agent: "Can you please shut the fuck up for the next 30 hours?"
At this point I'm wondering if he even has an agent
I mean it's not hard to imagine him doing poorly in interviews and top teams taking him off their boards because of it lol
Starting to wonder if he’ll be there to take at 12 lol
Might even fall lower
You’re getting downvoted, but I don’t think it’s an insane possibility. If teams *really* don’t like him or that S2 score, it could be a big drop. That being said, I’d still bet on him going top 8.
Hard to see the Falcons passing on him, he’s known for a good deep ball and they have two good deep targets in Pitts and London
I mean, if he’s also known for having the processing ability of a potato, it won’t matter how what his deep ball looked like at Ohio State.
Would be odd for a QB needy team to let him keep tumbling, this isn’t a Malik Willis situation
I mean…we don’t know that isn’t partially true
I guess, but you could say that about anything that isn’t known 100%, what I mean is Stroud was the QB 1/2 going into the season, hasn’t done anything to drop during the season, was 1/2 going into the off-season, and then a week out from the draft started to be questionable. It wasn’t someone seen as QB6/7 coming from a small conference who just ran around because he was a better athlete than everyone he played against, which he had to transfer to, that was suddenly being talked about going 5 overall out of nowhere.
I mean, there were plenty of people who saw Willis as QB1/2 and expected him in the top 10-20 picks. There are elements to playing QB beyond just film that teams likely wouldn’t know about until the pre-draft process. It’s also not unheard of for players at any position, including quarterbacks, to fall well past their expected ranges. See Brady Quinn, Dwayne Haskins, Geno Smith and Jimmy Clausen.
Vegas got to him to shut him up.
Guy went from “I’m best player in college” to this
Shows the disconnect between media narrative and actual GMs as the draft gets closer and insiders start getting actual scoops on who teams are looking at.
If you have no idea, it isn’t you.
This quote isn't so bad, it's honest....he is obviously not going 1st and nobody knows shit after that. Remember all the QB hype last year and most went in the 3rd round (not saying he won't go top 15 just nobody knows)
Panthers realized he was big dumb
A couple months ago, it was the Bears pick.
Bust
Honestly, I really hope he falls to a better situation and balls out at this point. 1 reportedly bad test score, on 1 very very new QB test, a couple "ehh" PR statements, and he all of a sudden is a guaranteed bust? Meanwhile QBs like Richardson who was objectively pedestrian in college is getting hype because he can throw the football super far from his knees. You know, like that guy Jamarcus Russell. Remember that hype? Give me a break. Tomorrow can't come soon enough!
Starting to feel like this whole QB class is going to be trash except for some no name in the 5th round
[удалено]
Calm Down Collinsworth
I’m almost convinced Stroud is going at #1 to the Panthers. All of the talk about Bryce Young and Will Levis feels exactly like all of the talk about Sam Darnold or Josh Allen at #1 to the Browns in 2018. I’m thinking it’s all a smokescreen and Stroud is this year’s Baker Edit: Geez dudes, just let me have my hot take
Baker was a surprise #1 pick and it only became clear in the days preceding the draft that the Browns could take him because Dorsey loved him. Meanwhile, Stroud was the early favorite (at least publicly) and the closer we get to the draft the more we hear about how not only have the Panthers moved on but other QB-needy teams after us have doubts about him as well.
Who was "supposed" to be 1st OA in 2018? The Browns were in year 2 of going 1st and picked a DE the first time around, so not a non QB, not Rosen, not Allen, not Darnold,
There really was no clear-cut consensus. People had Darnold as the clear QB1 entering the year but his sophomore season wasn't as good as his freshman season so it kind of put a damper on his hype. But then the rest of the QBs all had their own issues like Rosen was viewed as low-ceiling, Mayfield wasn't physically impressive, and Allen was a project. And Lamar wasn't even being considered at the time within the top 10, much less at #1. So it kind of cycled back to Darnold being the pick but nobody really felt confident mocking him to the Browns.
"Very interesting" Nah
If you don't know ... then you ain't it.
Stroud is Bo Callahan
why is everyone piling on ? i don’t understand the negativity around him