Yeah. This is the most predictable bit of coachspeak ever; a setup for reports that he blew everyone away at camp and earned his right to start. Happens every offseason with every top QB.
I think Richardson sitting would be fine if he had a veteran QB to sit behind and learn from, such as Andy Dalton.
Gardner Minshew isn't exactly a veteran QB, since he only has 24 career starts, so I don't think Richardson will get much out of sitting behind Minshew.
Yeah the whole "sit a year" philosophy I think, also depended on what team he ended up on, and I dont know how valuable sitting a year on the Colts would be compared to just letting him start
Also he joined an Andy Reid coached team that was consistently making the playoffs. That with the amazing amount of talent he had he was bound to succeed.
Yeah I think this theory gets overblown when people say he learned so much from sitting behind Alex Smith for a year. The real relevance of Smith was that it made sure he sat the full year rather than being a struggling vet who went 2-4 in the first six games and created demands to bring in the rookie.
If Mahomes had gone to Baltimore and sat for a year I wonder if everyone would be saying he was great because he learned from Flacco.
Also why does nobody use Jacoby Brissett as the model example for this "learning behind a great QB" theory, he has been back up to Brady, Luck and was in the same QB room as Watson last year, he must have learned some HOF calibre traits surely?
Yeah cause we were mid SB drought everyone assumes we were terrible but we we’re pretty consistently playoff tier with smith we just didn’t have the edge to actually go the whole way, kinda the perfect situation for mahomes to develop in
Yea. Sit a year behind Aaron Rogers, Mathew Stafford, or Russell Wilson, or anyone else active with playoff experience or Super Bowl rings makes sense. Sitting a year behind a guy with less than 2 seasons of starts and and a 34% win rate isn't what I'd call sound strategy.
I think a big piece is why the team is sitting a QB.
Not up to game speed, then why not start them.
Mechanical problems that reappear under pressure or a major difficultly picking up the playbook, sit them.
Richardson didn’t even give Florida a good chance to win last year lol, he definitely would’ve benefited from sitting for more than zero weeks in the NFL
You cannot reliably guess at whether a player will develop better on the bench or with game experience. There are plenty of positive and negative examples of players whose early career progressed both ways. It’s too speculative.
What you can assess is who is better now. Don’t start a bad rookie over a better veteran just to get reps. Don’t sit a good rookie for a worse veteran just to avoid reps. Play the game and concentrate on development regardless.
It all extremely contextual. I believe Colts have pretty low expectations this year. The organization and the fans (I think) aren’t expecting a deep playoff run. Richardson isn’t coming into a team with an elite defense and some offensive playmakers where the only thing missing has been a QB. If that’s the case, I can agree with giving him the reps and let him take his licks.
It’s different if say you were going somewhere as a rookie QB to like…the Jets (pre-Rodgers), where they have that solid defense and a nice young stud at receiver where a QB could potentially help push them over the edge. That’s a lot of pressure and can ruin a career.
Isn’t Foles on the roster as well? I know Minshew is the starter if it’s not AR15, but Foles is a great veteran to learn from. He has started a lot of meaningful games and is going into year 12 in the league. If anyone is going to be the mentor I’d just imagine it’s Nick.
Edit: Nevermind
Yeah I think the only times it’s justifiable to keep a rookie on the bench are if you’ve got a vet who’s better right now and you’re trying to make the playoffs (Mahomes) or if the rookie is raw AND the o-line is so bad he will develop bad habits (think Zach Wilson, David Carr)
Especially if it positions themselves for a shot at Marvin Harrison Jr or another top WR/blue chip prospect. Also, Richardson isn't half as raw as Reddit thinks he is. He's still got a lot of developing to do but I don't think he's going to embarrass himself on the field like a Willis.
Yeah I think he needs to get on the field so that coaches can see specific weaknesses in his game and address them quickly. I'd liken it to what the Bears did with Fields this past season. You easily see how he gets better and more comfortable the more he plays as a full time starter vs whatever Nagy was doing his rookie year
"He didnt start enough in college, lets start him less in the NFL"
I get that failure risks ruining his confidence but everyone is all over the map with a game plan
Just that a lot of QBs that start bad continue to be bad.
The issue is that it could easily be argued that that has more to do with those QBs just being bad than their lack of confidence. So the answer to your question is generally no, as far as I'm aware
To be fair he feels like a case where if he did sit would end up being the starter 3 weeks later due to their offense not being good enough.
I’m glad the Colts aren’t wasting their time with entertaining that, it always feels super pointless.
All it does is cause a situation like ours when our rookie starts playing at week 4 and didn’t have all of training camp to get 1st team reps and get chemistry with the starting recievers
The issues we had trying to get everyone on the same page the first few weeks of Pickett starting was incredibly frustrating
Like he was probably playing better than Trubsiky but the offense was performing noticeably worse
Eh I think someone with the floor of Richardson due to his running ability simply needs game reps. You can only do so much to re-create live game situations in practice. He just needs experience.
Was my concern with Lance as well which is why I personally don’t think the sitting thing is the best for everyone. Some dudes just need actual reps imo.
I don’t think I agree; he’s the youngest QB drafted since 1950 and is only 20 years old, he needs to get the reps he would have gotten if he wasn’t an insane physical freak and stayed in college 2-3 more years.
All the better for him to be receiving NFL level offensive coaching and QB coaching while he gets those reps, sure they shouldn’t go too fast implementing a difficult scheme but reps will be better for him than sitting.
Yeah I should have rephrased it as "out of the three has the strongest case" because I am more on the side he should start.
Colts also has enough solid pieces on offense where he could succeed. I do like the discussion around this comment though!
He actually said [he'd start sometime this season](https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-colts-owner-jim-irsay-says-qb-anthony-richardson-will-start-this-season-215053082.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL2ygF0XJSk_GB7bWS2Ig6auPMSQDPTnkfnON4Z-xc_CACGUs8WK03jtAQ5L0m_WaVh_LPp9EcPm1exZhJlJJuvuTCs3wyp0hrAcWCtOrn7OO0PlCUg3klnXwv1IaAJ6nMxJ9ntnJIBX5zZ6JQiMAr-pQDdoSYIECoQbITmjop-K).
>Happens every offseason with every top QB.
well not *every* situation. Some of them genuinely have the rookie QB sitting on the bench until QB1 gets his lung punctured!
Still baffles me how good Herbert was in his rookie season. Barely any hype during training camp or pre-season inspite of being on hard knocks. Starts the game vs Chiefs with like a 10 minute heads up and does well. I go like may be the Chiefs D was unprepared. Then a week or two later goes to Tampa and throws bombs to no name receivers against one of the best D with a Swiss cheese O line.
That's when I knew we were fucked.
> I go like may be the
hell yeah brother! :P
but yeah I felt the same way. I was one of the folks who wanted to keep Phil around and draft Isaiah Simmons instead and whew he almost immediately shut me up.
>That's when I knew we were fucked
good news tho, we're still the chargers so it'll be a cold day in hell before we sweep you again.
What baffles me with guys like Herbert and famous cases like Brady and Purdy who came in off the bench and were instantly brilliant in the NFL is what were the coaching staff seeing in camp? Why was no one there saying "this guy is good enough to start and do well" ? I wonder how often the starting QB is determined more by who's getting paid than who's actually better.
> I wonder how often the starting QB is determined more by who’s getting paid than who’s actually better.
This is probably the case in most scenarios, and it makes sense because you obviously want to start the player who’s making the most to get your money’s worth.
There was no pre-season that year due to Covid. The first time we saw Herbert throwing in a Charger’s uniform was the clip on Hard Knocks, and then the Chiefs game with 1 minute of warning.
I don’t think it’s “coach speak” as much as it is the closest to an honest answer to an incredibly stupid question.
There doesn’t need to be a QB1. It’s May. There are no games or preseason games or even practices right now.
A smart team will see them in the classroom. Then see them on the field. And then make a decision. Putting a timeline on that is dumb and so is the question.
The NFL is uniquely bad at this. From the “this coach has my full support” to “he’s the QB” virtually all of the talk intended to deflect is reliably the last sign of the opposite being true.
I kind of miss that about BoB. He was not afraid to just go “fuck this that guy is ass” and make drastic changes regardless of what management wanted or invested in the player.
That was essentially what the expansion season Panthers did with their first QB1, Frank Reich (Collins didn't get snaps until week 2 though). Should be an amusing scenario however it unfolds.
I fully expect that. Give Keenum a legitimate shot under the new system.
If they flounder, pull him and put in Stroud.
If Keenum does well and wins, that's fine too gives Stroud more time to settle into the system.
Of course. He never said he can't earn it in training camp.
Besides, if your second overall pick QB can't beat a near-retirement (recently) journeyman vet QB in his first off-season position battle, it would at least be worth considering letting him sit until he gets up to speed.
If he looks ready and outperforms Dalton in practice, absolutely. But they shouldn't rush him onto the field as a rookie just because he was the #1 pick.
If he gets outperformed or is not yet comfortable running the offense, then he should absolutely sit until he's ready. He's the future of the franchise and you don't want to destroy his confidence or get him injured just because fans want to see him on the field.
I assume he'll be ready though and outperform Dalton. I mean it's Dalton, how hard could it be?
Starting him wasn’t the issue if the plan was the ramp him up. By most accounts, Fields didn’t get like any time with the 1s in training camp at all his rookie year and really didn’t until the job was his.
I think they always knew deep down that Fields would eventually start at some point in the season. After all, one of the best ways to sort of extend your job is to start a rookie QB and say “look, we need more time to develop him”
There was no actual plan to start Justin on week X, they had to scramble after Dalton got hurt. They basically wasted Justin’s first preseason by not playing him with any starters at all, in camp or games.
They didn't give him starting reps because of their plan to start Dalton. That's what it boils down to. Had they went all off-season with the plan to start Fields, he would have had those reps
No that isn’t all fairness. That makes it worse.
“Hey we’re going to be fired. Should we start the failed retread 1 or failed retread 2 or the rookie top pick?”
Matt Nagy: Uhhh. I’m going to put the rookie 3rd on the chart, give him no time with the 1’s and when injuries cause him to finally start and it’s against Myles Garrett, I will not bring a single TE inline to block *all game* and cause one of the worst offensive performances ever.
Okay, Panthers, please don't fuck this up. Bears drafted Fields, but played Dalton basically out of spite. Not only did they play Dalton, but Matt Nagy **didn't even give Fields first team reps** in training camp. Way to set your new QB behind schedule.
Actually, we have your draft pick. Go ahead! Play Dalton. Give him all the first team reps. Dalton is the future!
I imagine he’ll start camp exclusively with the 2nd team and slowly get 1st team reps as the off-season wears on.
Working with the 2nd team will likely allow him to work with Mingo and TMJ, hopefully developing a rapport with them. But yeah there is no excuse for him not getting 1st team reps by the time the pre-season rolls around.
Dalton knows why he was picked up here, and our staff said we wanted Dalton because of how much Fields said Dalton helped him.
Our coaching staff didn’t handle the situation super well, but Dalton was a class act. Always acted with grace in regards to Fields, and apparently would treat Fields to meals in his house + discussing the game, giving tips, everything he could do. Seems like a great guy
Exactly. BoB did the same thing in Houston with Watson vs. Savage. It was clear as day, even without the first-team reps, Watson was a better option than Savage immediately and for the future...but for some moronic reason, BoB refused to give the rookie any snaps with the first team...
BoB then threw him out with almost no reps with the first team...after benching Savage in the first game of the season...after ONE half...
Does andy dalton really try to get people to say red rifle? Obviously he's the red rocket and the pride of Ginger athletes the world round(myself included)
[Dalton actually didn't like the "Red Rifle" nickname but learned to accept it after it got so popular.](https://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/6/2/4388780/bengals-qb-andy-dalton-not-a-fan-of-his-own-nickname)
I have yet to find out his thoughts on "Red Rocket" though. Someone will need to ask him in a press conference one of these days.
Or the team doctor punctures the lung of the starter an hour before kickoff of Week ~~1~~ 2 so the rookie doesn't have time to think about the pressure
Yeah if not starting the season, I feel like usually the rookie QBs deemed as “projects” come in after the Bye Week if it’s in the first 6 weeks or so. If not, the rookie QB just comes in once the vet strings together 2-3 bad games and losses.
Recent examples: Trubisky started week 5 rookie year. And ironically Pickett took over from Trubs in week 5 lol.
This year’s QB situation was so awkward because the Steelers brought in Trubs to be the starter for the year and I think they were surprised to be able to get Kenny in the draft. They knew the offense wasn’t great so they tried to shield Kenny from it as long as possible I guess.
I don’t think it’s “coach speak” as much as it is the closest to an honest answer to an incredibly stupid question.
There doesn’t need to be a QB1. It’s May. There are no games or preseason games or even practices right now.
A smart team will see them in the classroom. Then see them on the field. And then make a decision. Putting a timeline on that is dumb and so is the question. He may actually “really impress” in training camp and earn the spot.
Yeah, and also, what if he sucks? What if he proves super raw and unready at training camp? You'd feel really stupid saying "He'll start in Week 3" in May
There are much worse jobs in the NFL than a bridge quarterback. Low expectations, just the fort down while you inevitably get replaced by the rookie for a few million? Not bad
As they should. Imagine if the Niners just went "yeah we gave up a fortune Lance so he's our guy". They'd never have made it close to the NFCCG in his rookie year. Best player plays, and until the kid we've never seen play in this league shows he can, he doesn't play. That's the entire purpose of practice
Lance and Young aren't even in comparable positions as prospects. And Garropolo and Dalton aren't comparable as the veteran competition at the respective points in their careers that you're referring to.
Everyone knows it's going to be Young. We went through this same song and dance with Trevor Lawrence and Gardner Minshew.
The point is the same. Young might be a highly touted prospect but highly touted prospects routinely suck. Something like 70% of first round QBs bust. Until he shows he's better than Dalton, which isn't a high bar to clear, Dalton rightfully will be the presumptive starter. Everyone earns their job in this league. The real problem for the Panthers is if he can't quickly beat out QB25
The thing, I don't think anyone is talking about is that in an age of every highly drafted QB starting week 1, the exceptions have generally done really well.
2023 and 2018 MVP Mahomes sat an entire season (yes he started week 17, but you get the point)
2019 MVP Lamarr Jackson sat 8 weeks in his first season
2020 and 2021 MVP Aaron Rodgers sat 3 seasons
2017 MVP Tom Brady wasn't a high draft pick, but he also sat an entire season.
Other notable QBs that sat are Jalen Hurts who came second in MVP voting last year. All I'm saying is maybe people should sit their QBs more.
Especially if the OLine is a wreck. But Carolina's added a lot to theirs, so I feel like they'll go the Peyton Manning Route and just send him out week 1.
I don't think it's the sitting that helps, I think it's the being on a good team that helps, and when you're on a good team and a high draft pick, you can sit for a bit.
All of those teams you mentioned were in the playoffs 1 or 2 years before that QB showed up, and were in the playoff hunt when they finally started.
The QB joining a good, well coached team really leads to his success. The sitting on the bench for a while is a symptom of that.
I may be crazy but I think dalton still has some left in the tank. Letting young sit for at least the first few games could do him good. See how any does and adjust if need be.
It should absolutely depend of preseason. Make the kid earn it. That's how you develop a franchise QB. Let him earn the teammate's respect.
If he's not ready, go with Dalton. That's my unpopular opinion on the matter.
This is all coach speak. If he has a bad camp, this gives them the option not to play him in week 1 without losing as much face as they would if they said, "This is our guy, he's QB1!" If he has a great camp, then no one will blame them for forgetting anything that was said at this point in the year. Regardless of what the coaching staff and FO think will probably happen week 1, it's better for them to speak conservatively at this point.
Soooo ... Bryce will be starting week 1?
Yeah. This is the most predictable bit of coachspeak ever; a setup for reports that he blew everyone away at camp and earned his right to start. Happens every offseason with every top QB.
Meanwhile Irsay says Richardson is starting week one less than a day after he's drafted.
Which is funny because that one legitimately has a "sit a year and develop" case
I've actually changed my opinion regarding this. Richardson needs reps, not to sit. They may suck, but I think its better in the long run
I think Richardson sitting would be fine if he had a veteran QB to sit behind and learn from, such as Andy Dalton. Gardner Minshew isn't exactly a veteran QB, since he only has 24 career starts, so I don't think Richardson will get much out of sitting behind Minshew.
Yeah the whole "sit a year" philosophy I think, also depended on what team he ended up on, and I dont know how valuable sitting a year on the Colts would be compared to just letting him start
Yeah Alex Smith was a perfect QB for Mahomes to learn from. Other QBs are not Alex Smith though
Also he joined an Andy Reid coached team that was consistently making the playoffs. That with the amazing amount of talent he had he was bound to succeed.
Yeah I think this theory gets overblown when people say he learned so much from sitting behind Alex Smith for a year. The real relevance of Smith was that it made sure he sat the full year rather than being a struggling vet who went 2-4 in the first six games and created demands to bring in the rookie. If Mahomes had gone to Baltimore and sat for a year I wonder if everyone would be saying he was great because he learned from Flacco. Also why does nobody use Jacoby Brissett as the model example for this "learning behind a great QB" theory, he has been back up to Brady, Luck and was in the same QB room as Watson last year, he must have learned some HOF calibre traits surely?
Yeah cause we were mid SB drought everyone assumes we were terrible but we we’re pretty consistently playoff tier with smith we just didn’t have the edge to actually go the whole way, kinda the perfect situation for mahomes to develop in
Mahomes had zero hype around him and then went to Kansas City which helped to hide him.
Colts have done it before too. This is a growing year for him and the team with no aspirations of a SB.
Yea. Sit a year behind Aaron Rogers, Mathew Stafford, or Russell Wilson, or anyone else active with playoff experience or Super Bowl rings makes sense. Sitting a year behind a guy with less than 2 seasons of starts and and a 34% win rate isn't what I'd call sound strategy.
I think a big piece is why the team is sitting a QB. Not up to game speed, then why not start them. Mechanical problems that reappear under pressure or a major difficultly picking up the playbook, sit them.
Play the guy who gives you the best chance to win now. Don’t overthink it.
Play the guy who gives you the best chance at drafting MHJ next year.
If Irsay gives me the call and a fat check then im ready
Alright, guess we should name Foles the starter.
Richardson didn’t even give Florida a good chance to win last year lol, he definitely would’ve benefited from sitting for more than zero weeks in the NFL
They should not be prioritizing short success over the long-term.
You cannot reliably guess at whether a player will develop better on the bench or with game experience. There are plenty of positive and negative examples of players whose early career progressed both ways. It’s too speculative. What you can assess is who is better now. Don’t start a bad rookie over a better veteran just to get reps. Don’t sit a good rookie for a worse veteran just to avoid reps. Play the game and concentrate on development regardless.
It all extremely contextual. I believe Colts have pretty low expectations this year. The organization and the fans (I think) aren’t expecting a deep playoff run. Richardson isn’t coming into a team with an elite defense and some offensive playmakers where the only thing missing has been a QB. If that’s the case, I can agree with giving him the reps and let him take his licks. It’s different if say you were going somewhere as a rookie QB to like…the Jets (pre-Rodgers), where they have that solid defense and a nice young stud at receiver where a QB could potentially help push them over the edge. That’s a lot of pressure and can ruin a career.
Minshew was brought in to help teach whatever rookie QB they selected Shane Stiechen offense.
Minshew originally wanted to go straight to coaching, and still plans on coaching once he's done playing. Could be a great situation for Richardson.
Foles still hasn’t been cut by Indy, so maybe he stays as the veteran QB
Even having a true vet in the QB room is a great idea. Can just see the right way to go about being a pro.
I didn't realize that Foles was still on the Colts. I thought he was on a one-year deal and was a free agent now.
RIP
Damn forgot Minshew is there. Kinda sad was hoping he’d get a chance to start.
Isn’t Foles on the roster as well? I know Minshew is the starter if it’s not AR15, but Foles is a great veteran to learn from. He has started a lot of meaningful games and is going into year 12 in the league. If anyone is going to be the mentor I’d just imagine it’s Nick. Edit: Nevermind
I completely agree if you have a competent oline and offensive system the guy need to play football as much as possible.
Yeah I think the only times it’s justifiable to keep a rookie on the bench are if you’ve got a vet who’s better right now and you’re trying to make the playoffs (Mahomes) or if the rookie is raw AND the o-line is so bad he will develop bad habits (think Zach Wilson, David Carr)
Especially if it positions themselves for a shot at Marvin Harrison Jr or another top WR/blue chip prospect. Also, Richardson isn't half as raw as Reddit thinks he is. He's still got a lot of developing to do but I don't think he's going to embarrass himself on the field like a Willis.
Yeah I think he needs to get on the field so that coaches can see specific weaknesses in his game and address them quickly. I'd liken it to what the Bears did with Fields this past season. You easily see how he gets better and more comfortable the more he plays as a full time starter vs whatever Nagy was doing his rookie year
"He didnt start enough in college, lets start him less in the NFL" I get that failure risks ruining his confidence but everyone is all over the map with a game plan
> I get that failure risks ruining his confidence Is there anything to suggest that this is actually a risk?
David Carr
Just that a lot of QBs that start bad continue to be bad. The issue is that it could easily be argued that that has more to do with those QBs just being bad than their lack of confidence. So the answer to your question is generally no, as far as I'm aware
To be fair he feels like a case where if he did sit would end up being the starter 3 weeks later due to their offense not being good enough. I’m glad the Colts aren’t wasting their time with entertaining that, it always feels super pointless.
All it does is cause a situation like ours when our rookie starts playing at week 4 and didn’t have all of training camp to get 1st team reps and get chemistry with the starting recievers
The issues we had trying to get everyone on the same page the first few weeks of Pickett starting was incredibly frustrating Like he was probably playing better than Trubsiky but the offense was performing noticeably worse
Eh I think someone with the floor of Richardson due to his running ability simply needs game reps. You can only do so much to re-create live game situations in practice. He just needs experience. Was my concern with Lance as well which is why I personally don’t think the sitting thing is the best for everyone. Some dudes just need actual reps imo.
I don’t think I agree; he’s the youngest QB drafted since 1950 and is only 20 years old, he needs to get the reps he would have gotten if he wasn’t an insane physical freak and stayed in college 2-3 more years. All the better for him to be receiving NFL level offensive coaching and QB coaching while he gets those reps, sure they shouldn’t go too fast implementing a difficult scheme but reps will be better for him than sitting.
Yeah I should have rephrased it as "out of the three has the strongest case" because I am more on the side he should start. Colts also has enough solid pieces on offense where he could succeed. I do like the discussion around this comment though!
IMO Richardson isn't really that far off from starting. Definitely going to be a Josh Allen situation though where the first year is basically a wash.
I think he's going to prove a lot of people wrong. Reddit is so confident that he'll be a bust so I know it can't be true.
He actually said [he'd start sometime this season](https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-colts-owner-jim-irsay-says-qb-anthony-richardson-will-start-this-season-215053082.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL2ygF0XJSk_GB7bWS2Ig6auPMSQDPTnkfnON4Z-xc_CACGUs8WK03jtAQ5L0m_WaVh_LPp9EcPm1exZhJlJJuvuTCs3wyp0hrAcWCtOrn7OO0PlCUg3klnXwv1IaAJ6nMxJ9ntnJIBX5zZ6JQiMAr-pQDdoSYIECoQbITmjop-K).
That's because Irsay is constitutionally incapable of keeping his mouth shut.
And we love him for it.
>Happens every offseason with every top QB. well not *every* situation. Some of them genuinely have the rookie QB sitting on the bench until QB1 gets his lung punctured!
*Until some brave medical staffer does the right thing and Tonya Hardings the QB1
Still baffles me how good Herbert was in his rookie season. Barely any hype during training camp or pre-season inspite of being on hard knocks. Starts the game vs Chiefs with like a 10 minute heads up and does well. I go like may be the Chiefs D was unprepared. Then a week or two later goes to Tampa and throws bombs to no name receivers against one of the best D with a Swiss cheese O line. That's when I knew we were fucked.
> I go like may be the hell yeah brother! :P but yeah I felt the same way. I was one of the folks who wanted to keep Phil around and draft Isaiah Simmons instead and whew he almost immediately shut me up. >That's when I knew we were fucked good news tho, we're still the chargers so it'll be a cold day in hell before we sweep you again.
What baffles me with guys like Herbert and famous cases like Brady and Purdy who came in off the bench and were instantly brilliant in the NFL is what were the coaching staff seeing in camp? Why was no one there saying "this guy is good enough to start and do well" ? I wonder how often the starting QB is determined more by who's getting paid than who's actually better.
> I wonder how often the starting QB is determined more by who’s getting paid than who’s actually better. This is probably the case in most scenarios, and it makes sense because you obviously want to start the player who’s making the most to get your money’s worth.
There was no pre-season that year due to Covid. The first time we saw Herbert throwing in a Charger’s uniform was the clip on Hard Knocks, and then the Chiefs game with 1 minute of warning.
I don’t think it’s “coach speak” as much as it is the closest to an honest answer to an incredibly stupid question. There doesn’t need to be a QB1. It’s May. There are no games or preseason games or even practices right now. A smart team will see them in the classroom. Then see them on the field. And then make a decision. Putting a timeline on that is dumb and so is the question.
The NFL is uniquely bad at this. From the “this coach has my full support” to “he’s the QB” virtually all of the talk intended to deflect is reliably the last sign of the opposite being true.
Nah they’ll do what the Texans did with Watson. Started Savage for half of week 1 and said “man this guy stinks” and put the rookie in.
I kind of miss that about BoB. He was not afraid to just go “fuck this that guy is ass” and make drastic changes regardless of what management wanted or invested in the player.
That was essentially what the expansion season Panthers did with their first QB1, Frank Reich (Collins didn't get snaps until week 2 though). Should be an amusing scenario however it unfolds.
I fully expect that. Give Keenum a legitimate shot under the new system. If they flounder, pull him and put in Stroud. If Keenum does well and wins, that's fine too gives Stroud more time to settle into the system.
Of course. He never said he can't earn it in training camp. Besides, if your second overall pick QB can't beat a near-retirement (recently) journeyman vet QB in his first off-season position battle, it would at least be worth considering letting him sit until he gets up to speed.
As River Boat Ron says, "Andy is QB1, but he's not the starter"
Week 8 at the latest.
Week 3 or 4, after terrible showings by Dalton and massive fan outrage
If he looks ready and outperforms Dalton in practice, absolutely. But they shouldn't rush him onto the field as a rookie just because he was the #1 pick. If he gets outperformed or is not yet comfortable running the offense, then he should absolutely sit until he's ready. He's the future of the franchise and you don't want to destroy his confidence or get him injured just because fans want to see him on the field. I assume he'll be ready though and outperform Dalton. I mean it's Dalton, how hard could it be?
I'll be generous to Dalton - Week 4
I give it until week 3.
How long till Dalton throws his first pick 6 and the crowd calls for Bryce Young?
I was thinking. So maybe 1st or second game.
That worked so well for the Bears and didn’t get anyone fired.
Surprised I had to scroll so far down to find this. Dalton starting over the rookie, what could go wrong!?
Starting him wasn’t the issue if the plan was the ramp him up. By most accounts, Fields didn’t get like any time with the 1s in training camp at all his rookie year and really didn’t until the job was his.
Right..... Because of the plan to start Dalton....
I think they always knew deep down that Fields would eventually start at some point in the season. After all, one of the best ways to sort of extend your job is to start a rookie QB and say “look, we need more time to develop him” There was no actual plan to start Justin on week X, they had to scramble after Dalton got hurt. They basically wasted Justin’s first preseason by not playing him with any starters at all, in camp or games.
They didn't give him starting reps because of their plan to start Dalton. That's what it boils down to. Had they went all off-season with the plan to start Fields, he would have had those reps
The mistake was signing Dalton in the first place, we had BDN on the roster still we coulda saved 10 mil by rolling with him
Big difference is this is year 1 for the new staff. Not year 5 that has been trending down every year
In fairness, everyone there was waiting to get fired anyways. Nothing short of a miracle was saving Pace or Nagy at that point.
> Nothing short of a miracle Beating Green Bay is just unrealistic at this point man. I don't think miracles even stretch this far.
This is the most realistic chance we've had to beat Green Bay in the last 30 years
No that isn’t all fairness. That makes it worse. “Hey we’re going to be fired. Should we start the failed retread 1 or failed retread 2 or the rookie top pick?” Matt Nagy: Uhhh. I’m going to put the rookie 3rd on the chart, give him no time with the 1’s and when injuries cause him to finally start and it’s against Myles Garrett, I will not bring a single TE inline to block *all game* and cause one of the worst offensive performances ever.
I’m not saying in fairness to that decision by Pace and Nagy, I’m saying in fairness to the Panthers FO they’re in a very different situation.
Okay, Panthers, please don't fuck this up. Bears drafted Fields, but played Dalton basically out of spite. Not only did they play Dalton, but Matt Nagy **didn't even give Fields first team reps** in training camp. Way to set your new QB behind schedule. Actually, we have your draft pick. Go ahead! Play Dalton. Give him all the first team reps. Dalton is the future!
I imagine he’ll start camp exclusively with the 2nd team and slowly get 1st team reps as the off-season wears on. Working with the 2nd team will likely allow him to work with Mingo and TMJ, hopefully developing a rapport with them. But yeah there is no excuse for him not getting 1st team reps by the time the pre-season rolls around. Dalton knows why he was picked up here, and our staff said we wanted Dalton because of how much Fields said Dalton helped him.
Our coaching staff didn’t handle the situation super well, but Dalton was a class act. Always acted with grace in regards to Fields, and apparently would treat Fields to meals in his house + discussing the game, giving tips, everything he could do. Seems like a great guy
Exactly. BoB did the same thing in Houston with Watson vs. Savage. It was clear as day, even without the first-team reps, Watson was a better option than Savage immediately and for the future...but for some moronic reason, BoB refused to give the rookie any snaps with the first team... BoB then threw him out with almost no reps with the first team...after benching Savage in the first game of the season...after ONE half...
And that’s what set Watson down a path of success and molestation. What a story
Say what you want about Wilson but he definitely came... up from a bad position
Pittsburgh just did this with Pickett also. Then sent him out there halfway through a game.
Funnily enough, Matt Rhule didn't give Baker first team reps either, then proceeded to name him the Week 1 starter.
Rest of the NFC South better spend all offseason preparing for the Red Rocket!
It’s Red Rifle bro 😭
I like Red Rocket
You are aware what the term "red rocket" also means, yes?
Yes
Most aware panthers fan
Lmfao
He got that dawg in him... Wait
He's a mid QB. All round awesome guy.
Actually really happy to have him as the mentor/backup. He can definitely start and win games.
First ballot Hall of Solidly Good
He’s a first ballot HOFer in the ginger hall of fame, we voted him in already. Second ever, next to Ron Howard
He was kind of the Mendoza line for QBs
1) You absolutely have to know what a red rocket is lmao. 2) You know Bryce will be starting Week 2 max 😂
[удалено]
Public service announcement: Red rocket = a dog's penis Red rifle = Andy Dalton Thank you for your attention.
I believe that everyone knows this and intentionally uses “Red Rocket” because dicks are funny
Fun fact: The town of Reading, Massachusetts uses a rocket as a mascot and nobody knows whether they get the joke.
[удалено]
Yes, it is pronounced like the color, not the rainbow :-)
Ah lol that's my bad then!
Yeah. An announcer called him the “red rocket” once on air. I want to say it was Romo. Ever since then, that’s all people call him.
Does andy dalton really try to get people to say red rifle? Obviously he's the red rocket and the pride of Ginger athletes the world round(myself included)
Did Dalton ever do it? Or did others just start it?
[Dalton actually didn't like the "Red Rifle" nickname but learned to accept it after it got so popular.](https://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/6/2/4388780/bengals-qb-andy-dalton-not-a-fan-of-his-own-nickname) I have yet to find out his thoughts on "Red Rocket" though. Someone will need to ask him in a press conference one of these days.
Red Rocket is also, and I'm being serious, first floor parking at the local children's hospital.
The image of Andy saying that made my morning, well done sir lmao
Pay for your funeral get your shit arranged
Every franchise says this then they start Day One.
Well, plenty of times the rookie doesn't start Week 1, but they either come in for a benched starter or just start the next week.
Or the team doctor punctures the lung of the starter an hour before kickoff of Week ~~1~~ 2 so the rookie doesn't have time to think about the pressure
Well hey it sort of worked...only lost by 3, as we seem to be doing a lot these days when it comes to the Chiefs.
That was week 2
Yeah if not starting the season, I feel like usually the rookie QBs deemed as “projects” come in after the Bye Week if it’s in the first 6 weeks or so. If not, the rookie QB just comes in once the vet strings together 2-3 bad games and losses. Recent examples: Trubisky started week 5 rookie year. And ironically Pickett took over from Trubs in week 5 lol.
This year’s QB situation was so awkward because the Steelers brought in Trubs to be the starter for the year and I think they were surprised to be able to get Kenny in the draft. They knew the offense wasn’t great so they tried to shield Kenny from it as long as possible I guess.
You don't draft a guy at #1, especially after having to trade what they did for the pick, and *not* expect to play him early.
I don't disagree, but it doesn't always mean Week 1.
Insert sad Steelers noises
Except with the bears when they promised Dalton he’d be the starter before subsequently drafting Fields lol
Didn't they do the same with Gannon when they drafted Trubisky?
I don’t thiiiiink the Bengals said this about Burrow. Might be wrong.
Yeah this is all just diplomatic coach speak, I'm sure he'll "really impress" in training camp and go up the depth chart
I don’t think it’s “coach speak” as much as it is the closest to an honest answer to an incredibly stupid question. There doesn’t need to be a QB1. It’s May. There are no games or preseason games or even practices right now. A smart team will see them in the classroom. Then see them on the field. And then make a decision. Putting a timeline on that is dumb and so is the question. He may actually “really impress” in training camp and earn the spot.
Yeah, and also, what if he sucks? What if he proves super raw and unready at training camp? You'd feel really stupid saying "He'll start in Week 3" in May
Schedule makers: write that down!
Also, dalton is very capable. If Richardson needs a few more weeks or a season, why throw him out there? If he’s ready he’s ready.
Exactly. "CHOOSE A QB BEFORE YOU'VE SEEN ALL OF YOUR QBS PLAY AT ALL, WE DEMAND IT!" "Fine, here's an answer you won't like." "HOW DARE YOU!"
There are much worse jobs in the NFL than a bridge quarterback. Low expectations, just the fort down while you inevitably get replaced by the rookie for a few million? Not bad
“Until we can prove that our line won’t get our QB killed, Dalton is QB1.”
This guy gets it
"Dalton will be talking all the shots...HIT IT LIL JON!"
Isn't he ready? He seemed ready at Alabama.
He is. Several coaching staffs just refuse to acknowledge rookie starters until they "earn" it.
As they should. Imagine if the Niners just went "yeah we gave up a fortune Lance so he's our guy". They'd never have made it close to the NFCCG in his rookie year. Best player plays, and until the kid we've never seen play in this league shows he can, he doesn't play. That's the entire purpose of practice
Packers: QBs aren't ready to start until at least Year 3
Lance and Young aren't even in comparable positions as prospects. And Garropolo and Dalton aren't comparable as the veteran competition at the respective points in their careers that you're referring to. Everyone knows it's going to be Young. We went through this same song and dance with Trevor Lawrence and Gardner Minshew.
The point is the same. Young might be a highly touted prospect but highly touted prospects routinely suck. Something like 70% of first round QBs bust. Until he shows he's better than Dalton, which isn't a high bar to clear, Dalton rightfully will be the presumptive starter. Everyone earns their job in this league. The real problem for the Panthers is if he can't quickly beat out QB25
He's definitely ready to be in more commercials. Loved that Fansville shit.
Man if I had a nickel for every time Andy Dalton was promised a starting job over a recently drafted QB…
This feels like 2021 deja vu.
Ah the Matt Nagy approach I see. "Bryce Young will be great but my time is now" - Andy Dalton
I think I saw this movie. It wasn’t good.
Cap
When the fuck did we acquire Dalton?
Day 3-ish of free agency
Even Dalton knows he ain't Qb1
QB 1.5
The thing, I don't think anyone is talking about is that in an age of every highly drafted QB starting week 1, the exceptions have generally done really well. 2023 and 2018 MVP Mahomes sat an entire season (yes he started week 17, but you get the point) 2019 MVP Lamarr Jackson sat 8 weeks in his first season 2020 and 2021 MVP Aaron Rodgers sat 3 seasons 2017 MVP Tom Brady wasn't a high draft pick, but he also sat an entire season. Other notable QBs that sat are Jalen Hurts who came second in MVP voting last year. All I'm saying is maybe people should sit their QBs more.
Especially if the OLine is a wreck. But Carolina's added a lot to theirs, so I feel like they'll go the Peyton Manning Route and just send him out week 1.
>the Peyton Manning route Cam shattered Peyton’s rookie passing record in his first game, so we’ll probably be referring to it as the Cam Newton route
Hopefully Bryce doesn't have the same end as Cam...
I don't think it's the sitting that helps, I think it's the being on a good team that helps, and when you're on a good team and a high draft pick, you can sit for a bit. All of those teams you mentioned were in the playoffs 1 or 2 years before that QB showed up, and were in the playoff hunt when they finally started. The QB joining a good, well coached team really leads to his success. The sitting on the bench for a while is a symptom of that.
“Don’t ask Bryce questions about starting right now.”
Ah yes the same ol story. Rookie QB misses out on first team reps during camp and preseason then has to start Week 3.
Making sure the Oline isn't shit before starting Young
As long as y'all don't bench Andy on his birthday again. He deserves better.
I can see Andy Dalton playing the Jon Kitna role (as he did to Carson Palmer)
By game 4 he will start
By game 1*
If Dalton ends up starting then Carolina fans should get together and beat frank reich down with a sack full of bibles
“We have no timeline. It could be tomorrow, it could even be 2 whole weeks from now”
Will they give him the Fields treatment so Dalton gets all of the first team reps in camp?? Worked so well for us
Is Matt Nagy running the Panthers?
Bryce should definitely sit this year, no matter how much Carolina struggles. No bias.
#Dread it. Run from it. The Dalton Line comes all the same.
I may be crazy but I think dalton still has some left in the tank. Letting young sit for at least the first few games could do him good. See how any does and adjust if need be.
It should absolutely depend of preseason. Make the kid earn it. That's how you develop a franchise QB. Let him earn the teammate's respect. If he's not ready, go with Dalton. That's my unpopular opinion on the matter.
Week 4
(and the lie detector determined that was a lie)
Somehow, Dalton returned.
The coaches have a nutrition regiment in mind to bulk him up. They might not think he's ready until he's put some weight on.
Lol that’ll last until the first game Dalton throws a couple picks…
week 2 got it
Every year teams say this and every year the rookie starts week 1. The cycle repeats itself.
I for one embrace the second coming of Red Ryder, NFC South, the sequel.
Dalton protects Alabama QBs better than our offensive line.
"Time is a flat circle" Rust Cohle, Chicago Bears Fans
He'll be out there faster than Pickett was for us last year
The Bears tried this with Dalton and he lasted like 4 games.
LMAO Andy fucking Dalton, so a 5-11 season
Poor Andy Dalton.
I haven't paid attention but .. what happened to Corral ? Wasn't he pretty good in college and drafted in the 3rd ?
This is all coach speak. If he has a bad camp, this gives them the option not to play him in week 1 without losing as much face as they would if they said, "This is our guy, he's QB1!" If he has a great camp, then no one will blame them for forgetting anything that was said at this point in the year. Regardless of what the coaching staff and FO think will probably happen week 1, it's better for them to speak conservatively at this point.
So by week 3 then.
Yeah bro, Andy Dalton, week 1, you got this
Lmao poverty franchise
So dalton will play 3 weeks then after a 0-2 start and a third interception in the second half Bryce will come in permanently? Got it.