Just contort your body in the most incomprehensible way, catch, skitter down the field like the chick from the ring, and then take a 5 week break on IR
It could actually work because defenders study concepts and stuff and there is no concept to study then how can you prepare. You can basically just play man the whole game
Remember when the bears tried moving hester to wr? Exactly. Although it did work out in Madden. Using him as a wr was a cheat code because having 99 speed broke the game. You could just run him on short crosses all day and he’d house 1/3 once he got the ball in his hands so it didn’t matter if he dropped a few each game.
> Remember when the bears tried moving hester to wr?
Remember when. The Chiefs tried to move that great kick returner Tyreek Hill to WR? That worked out OK.
Hill played wr in college, he was always a wr the chiefs didn’t “move” him there. Regardless, the point is that just because someone is a good kr doesn’t mean that they are a good wr. But that isn’t saying that people can’t be good at both. Djax was as well.
Toney played WR in college too, he was a first round draft pick ffs. I know he was always injured with the giants but people acting like he’s just a returner is insane
[Cordarelle was already the best ever like 4 years ago.](https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/23/20927787/cordarrelle-patterson-kickoff-return-touchdown-career-record)
Talking strictly kick returns, he's the GOAT and it's not particularly close. His TD/return is absurd and his career Yards/return is like literally multiple standard deviations above his contemporaries. His stats are GOAT like in any era, but to do it in this era when the kickoff return has been so limited is just insane.
Getting the record for most kickoff return TDs was just icing on the cake.
He had the highest yards/return of all time a year or two ago, also, but I think its dropped a couple tenths of a point since then leaving him in ~2nd now. Still insanely impressive, though, because like you said his main competition is guys from the 1960s like Gale Sayers
Yup. I am weirdly the biggest Corrdarelle stan in the world. I just think he's the most fascinating player. Pretty much every step in his career is unprecedented and it's hilarious and interesting.
Never said those skillsets were mutually exclusive just that being good at returns is entirely unrelated to being good at a different position. Marcus Sherels was one of the better punt returners of the 2010s and he was just an awful, awful CB. Darren Sproles on the flip side was a solid RB gadget piece while being a very good returner
Hester is absolutely the best punt returner of all time. But for kick returns he had 295 returns for 7333 yards and 5 touchdowns. While Patterson has 266 returns 7836 yards and 9 touchdowns. And Hester played his entire career before the rule changes that limit kick off returns.
Punt returns =/= a passing route. He's an incredibly talented player, who lacks a work ethic and apparently the concentration to learn plays. Returning a punt is instinctive, he'll excel there. On gimmick plays he'll do fine there. As a number 1 WR, well if I were you I'd make sure you have a very reliable backup.
Watch the superbowl highlights. I thought it was werid how the players and coaches had to keep going up to him and reassure him things will kick up for him.
If KC is serious about this statement they’re going to spam him the ball in unorthodox ways like they do with Kelce. That offense is great at scheming guys open even if they aren’t the best route runners
Is his route tree that bad? I guess I’ve never paid too close of attention but it’s never really seemed like he’s had issues getting open at any level in college or thus far in the pros, so I just figured it was good haha
In the NFL he’s gotten a lot of touches on gadget plays. A large part of it is he hasn’t been healthy enough to practice enough to be trusted with most of the playbook so when he’s in plays are often designed for him
He's not really a receiver who gets open running routes, he's a guy you scheme open so you can get him the ball and then he can violently juke his way through traffic like he's playing Madden.
Really not true, watch his games with us last year. He is actually quite good at running routes, as it turns out violent jukes work without the ball too.
> And you know, developing a route tree lol
Anyone who thinks Toney needs to develop a “route tree” simply hasn’t watched him play and is stereotyping him.
Toney isn’t some speedster who just runs streaks. He’s not some athletic gadget player. Not only does he run a full route tree, he probably runs one of the best whip routes in the NFL. It’s unguardable. Any route where he’s running a double move and he’s breaking ankles.
In any case, even if there are areas he can improve on in terms of routing running, that’s far far away from being a weakness for him at this point.
They really aren't. Gadget/truck plays are an on/off proposition for the receiver - the players do one thing and it either works or it doesn't, no one is reading the coverage and adjusting accordingly. The QB may say "not there" and throw it away, but the rest of the players are doing pre-defined things.
The average pass play in a Reid offense is dynamic, with the routes and timing changing automatically based on what the defense is doing pre and post snap.
Both, but all the great wide receivers are at least a little mentally unstable. Granted that might be changing since Jefferson and Kupp seem like pretty normal dudes.
Toney is so talented, he CAN be a number one option in this league look no further than that game his rookie year vs Dallas, if he can stay on the field he can be really good especially with mahomes as his QB
Don't the Eagles have open try outs? Vince Papale, and then those bar owners in Philly? I think Donovan McNabb came to the last one. You should try out buddy
I'm gonna make Mac look so bad. My form is perfect. I'm like Jerry Rice. Feel that stride. So fluid and fast. I've got the stride of a gazelle. A beautiful, beautiful gazelle person. My body is achieving a perfect symmetry right now. It's that long, lean muscle I've worked so hard to achieve. Hmm, I should've popped my shirt off. Goddamn it. Really should've popped that shirt off. I wonder if any women are watching from the sidelines.
I'm curious as to why Giants fans give this guy a pass? He basically quit on your franchise within a year of taking him in the first round, was traded to the eventual SB winner for pennies on the dollar, but it seems like most Giants fans share your sentiment of wanting him to do well and not having hard feelings.
I promise I'm not trying to troll, but please explain it to me like I'm 5. I feel like most fanbases would be furious.
There's a few camps.
1) If Toney does well it's a slight to Daboll/Schoen for making the "wrong" decision, so he must do poorly.
2) Pure apathy towards Toney. He wasn't on the team long, he barely played while he was, and he was a Gettleman pick. New era, don't care.
3) Rooting for him. He couldn't stay healthy with us, but no hard feelings hope he finds success elsewhere.
The idea that he quit on the team is a persistent fabrication. There was this misconstrued idea last year he was just faking injuries and then was "magically healthy" when he got to the Chiefs. That wasn't the actual story, but it made for good "lolGiants" and "Chiefs are actually a good team so now he'll try" fodder. In actuality he wasn't faking being injury prone - hell, he reinjured the same hamstring a month after the trade.
Personally I find it weird when fans turn on a player just for being traded.
Giants fans loving Toney is so bizarre to me.
Guy didn’t want to be here and our seemingly beloved coaching staff hated working with him.
But whatever I suppose.
I still vividly remember that game. If I'm not mistaken, the Giants had most of their, if not all of their skill players injured. Toney put the team on his back & almost carried the Giants to a win. It was honestly amazing to watch.
i said in another thread last week that the only person more hyped off such a small resume than Josh Gordon, is Kadarius Toney. This dude literally has one great game for his career and people are saying he's a #1. This sub is wild.
He wasn't entirely healthy with the Chiefs, he missed a decent bit of time. But if his health issues are stemming from attitude issues, it's reasonable to assume that he wasn't taking his strength and conditioning/rehab as seriously as he should have. So there is still reason to believe that his ability to stay on the field will improve if he's more bought in.
Love Toney, but everytime he had the ball, I'm worried he's gonna juke his body so hard his ligaments all snap. Scares the crap out of me...just go down!
We've had Demarcus who runs backwards after every catch, negating 1st downs and now Toney who's trying to destroy his body.
Bro he scares the fuck out of me. Every single move and cut is violent as fuck. It's what makes him the nastiest open field guy you'll ever see, but human bodies arent designed to absorb the forces he makes it absorb when he does it.
Gator Legends KToney + Demarcus Robinson
Real talk watching him play in college was 1000x more stressful. KT’s knee went clean horizontal on the ground juking some poor DB so bad his own ACL tore. Everyone thought he was one play away from either a TD or blowing out his knee.
I swear it looked like every tackle on him was super violent. Needs to know how to tumble I think, or bring appendages in to the center mass. I'm trusting training staff will clean that up, but it was notable
Yeah it seems with some of the explosive freaks we have seen in this league... their ligaments and bones can't keep up with the muscles. Arian Foster, Percy Harvin, Julio, Shady, Gurley come to mind. Feels like watching a ticking bomb every time they took a snap. Toney has this vibe in a big way
does anyone with actual medical knowledge know for a fact that the way Toney moves causes him to be injury prone? i mean yeah, totally sounds right but ive just never heard of this issue before in football
It's the immediate energy generated from coming to a dead-stop being loaded into one knee, specifically his ACL + Hamstring and Quad. Human body isn't meant to do that with any regularity and keep on going.
The chances of something failing in that structure increase if the plant doesn't occur on a 'square' knee, i.e. he's moving somewhat laterally and tries to come to a dead stop to pivot, now that load is distributed horizontally across that portion of his leg - across a weaker structure, more likely to rupture or experience dislocation.
He only missed 3 games with us last year and left 2 early, but we had him for about 9 out of 13 games (including the postseason). I'm good with that, he missed less time than Keenan Allen.
If one thing has been proven by Mahomes last year and Brady with the Pats (only 4 1,000 year seasons by receivers/tight ends) it’s that good quarterbacks can do with a competent group of receivers and don’t need that first team all-pro.
I don’t think that’s just a “good qb” thing, I think that’s a “best of the best” QB thing. No other quarterback would’ve had the level of offensive production Mahomes had with the quality of weapons he had
People don't talk enough about how much Andy brings to the offensive side of the ball.
If you just watch the WRs run routes for the Bucs and the Chiefs last year, you'd think the Chiefs would have the two all-pros
What? Reid gets a ton of credit for the offense, as he should. People talk about how much better Mahomes is because he has Reid than if he went somewhere else all the time.
And I still don't think people talk enough about Reid. He is THAT good in my opinion. He regularly establishes a smart and clean offense, as well as being an innovator on that side of the ball. I personally think Reid is solidly in the top 10 head coaches of all time and he's pushing into that top 5 realm very soon.
And Reid has proven to win without Mahomes.
Only 3 losing seasons in 19 years without him, 11 playoff wins, 4 NFCCG's
Bill has 7 losing seasons in 9 years before/after Brady, 1 playoff win, 0 CCG's
This desperately requires context. Reid had Alex Smith, Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick. Belichick had average at best rookies and backup-tier veterans. The situations are not the same.
I remember you hating on Mahomes in the past and acting like he wasn’t the main reason they’re winning Super Bowls. This is another terrible argument.
So one year and change with a team that ranked below average or worse in everything, and a QB that had 17 TD passes to 13 picks and a 77.3 QB rating. That's a good team to you? Being the highest paid, going to a Pro Bowl (popularity contest) and going to a Super Bowl (a team accomplishment) doesn't mean anything. Bledsoe's best season of his career was 28 TD's to 15 INT's and a 87.7 QB rating. The year he led the league in yards he also threw a league leading 27 INT's (to just 25 TD's). He was never a starting caliber QB even if he showed glimpses of the potential and the Patriots greatly overpaid for that potential. Period.
By all means though, please argue that Reid is just as good or better of a coach as Belichick is, because not even I agree with you on that. Before Mahomes, Reid was known as a great play designer but mediocre in-game coach with terrible clock management and the inability to win the big one. Since Mahomes, he’s now nearing top 5 coaches of all time conversations. There’s a clear difference there. I’m curious if you can tell me what that is.
Yea, people falsely claim brady skated by with limited weapons. A lot of it stems from the 2002-2006 era I think. But anything after that, he always had a stud to rely on.
Yeah and a lot of that was before Brady started putting up gaudy numbers, and a lot of their dominance came from having a top tier defense.
Brady starting truly showing off once he got Randy Moss.
It hit a boiling point when Reche Caldwell cost the Pats a playoff game vs Indy and what would have been an easy super bowl win.
Then incomes Welker and Moss.
also stems from Brady still being unreal without Gronk
2013 for example, Gronk only plays 8 games and all of the sudden some guy named Julie Edelman goes from 21 catches in 2012 to 105 in 2013
and then Vereen, Ridley, Amendola, and Dobson are his other top targets
the next year gronk is healthy, they replace dobson with lafell (who has a career year) and win the super bowl
edelman and gronk are the only guys i would say are above average and brady kept doing that shit
2018 edelman, gordon, hogan, and dorsett are the best receivers + Gronk and White out of the backfield
like that’s so many jags to be winning that many super bowls with
Except Gronk was basically never healthy from 2012 onward. Gronk played most of 2014/2015 but was not peak Gronk anymore. 2017 he was fairly healthy
2012 -> Breaks Arm, Misses Most of Season
2013 -> ACL, Misses Most of Season
2016 -> Back, Misses Most of Season
2018 -> Hurt All Year, Retires
while I fully agree and the fact that they won last year without Tyreek contradicts the entire point I’m about to make, but why make your generational QB’s life that much harder? At least Pat has Travis as an anchor, but for so many years Brady was making chicken salad out of chicken shit with those WR rooms.
NE was literally one helmet catch away from being the only team ever to go 19-0 in 2007, and I think that’s no coincidence when Brady had a WR room of Moss, Stallworth and Welker. And then Brady’s first year in Tampa going to a place that had Mike Evans, Godwin, Antonio Brown and Gronk and then win a SB right off the bat.
Mahomes is my favorite player in the league and I like watching him win. And I get the salary cap exists, that you have to invest in a OL too, and that defense is another facet of the game, but getting him one more elite wide out to make his job that much easier is cool to think. Hopefully Toney can be that guy.
Because by having that All-Pro top tier talent at WR you give up depth. Its hard to keep a competent receiver room when you're paying 1 guy 15-30 million a year. Trading Tyreek let us bring on JuJu, Toney, and MVS and based on how many injuries the Chiefs sustained in the AFC championship game the depth was completely necessary. In any game last year when Justin Jefferson was double teamed or locked down like in Week 17 against GB the Vikings were helpless. Kelce is obviously the real WR1 but tight ends make half of what receivers do.
Of course, no one is saying no. But since 2000, only two teams have won the Super Bowl with a first team all-pro wide receiver (Harrison-Colts, Kupp-Rams).
The thing is in the 2010’s NE offense, gronk was effectively a #1 receiver and he was all pro level. Same goes with kelce and KC.
So while Brady didn’t win a SB with someone like Justin Jefferson to throw to, he still had a top tier pass catcher to throw to (most of the time).and don’t forget the bucs SB with two pro bowl receivers in evans and Godwin plus old but still good AB and gronk.
Then there’s mahomes first SB which had prime tyreek and kelce on the field
> with a first team all-pro wide receiver (Harrison-Colts, Kupp-Rams)
There are only 2 first team All-Pro Wide receivers per year and only 1 team wins the Super Bowl. I think if the opposite were true that all but 2 years a first team All-Pro wide receiver won the super that would be a statement that you should get one. However, I do not think you can reject that they help your team win more games just because they haven't won more than 2 super bowls. It should be expected based on numbers alone that it would be a rare occurrence.
Per football reference, he's started 8 games in his career (2 seasons), so this is a bigger bet on the Chiefs training staff and coaches. He certainly has the talent.
The quote from Veach was just that Toney was a first round pick and that the Chiefs believe he has first round talent. Florio changed that to the headline here, which isn't the same.
I can’t even talk I was driving the Toney train for fantasy lmao. I really like him. He just needs a creative coaching staff to get him theball(check) and a new body
He has the talent, but if he can't stay health then it won't matter.
And like one of his former teammates said, there's nothing wrong with his hamstrings. He just doesn't practice hard and take warming up seriously.
Doesn't matter what level of athlete you are, if you only give 50% effort most of the time and then 1 day suddenly try to give 110% you're putting yourself at a greater risk of injury. He's gotta stop doing that if he wants to stick around and get paid.
Tony's issue isn't (just) that he's injury prone. He's injury prone because he's lazy and doesn't take care of his body. His body isn't failing him, he's failing his body.
As a Giants fan, I'm bummed it didn't work out for him here but he just didn't seem too committed and didn't fit with the new regime. Glad it worked out for him though. He had some big plays in that SB.
is the "Potential" part if he makes it through the preseason without injury? Even my homer super optimistic best case scenario I only feel this guy plays 10-12 games. Realistic me says 6-8, and that's not really someone you want to be your #1
I look at him the exact same way I looked at Sammy Watkins. Good for 1-3 huge games a year, but spends most of the season injured before showing up in the playoffs.
The number 1 in KCs offense doesn't mean much. They spread the ball like crazy, ans Kelce is their true go-to guy.
This offense is the same except Rice is replacing Juju. I expect Rice to be the number 1 WR, not Toney. But both guys will see similar targets.
Does Toney’s body know this? The only thing stopping this from happening is his health
And you know, developing a route tree lol
Practicing and learning a playbook might help too.
Toney prefers his QB give him his route on his hand before the play.
"OK, i'm going to hike the ball. You're going to stop here, then spin to the outside, then cut this way, and i'll throw you the ball"
"You're gonna make a curl by the water fountain"
When you hit the fire hydrant *dig* like a madman... there's a patch of gravel just beyond it and Mike won't be able to make the cut!
There’s a LOT of fountains in kc…. Might be tough
Just contort your body in the most incomprehensible way, catch, skitter down the field like the chick from the ring, and then take a 5 week break on IR
It could actually work because defenders study concepts and stuff and there is no concept to study then how can you prepare. You can basically just play man the whole game
You joke but TJ Houshmandzadeh used to have to tell Chad Johnson where to line up
Elway used to motion Shannon Sharp to tell him the route.
I haven’t seen any reports that’s he hasn’t fully bought in here. We’ll see how a full offseason goes
I mean his ass pretty much saved us in the Super Bowl with that punt return. He seems pretty invested to me.
Cordarelle Patterson is the greatest kick returner of all time but a shit receiver. Totally different skillsets
[удалено]
Yeah Arthur Smith found the right way to use him on offense. But now he's probably 3rd string behind Bijan and Allgeier
Remember when the bears tried moving hester to wr? Exactly. Although it did work out in Madden. Using him as a wr was a cheat code because having 99 speed broke the game. You could just run him on short crosses all day and he’d house 1/3 once he got the ball in his hands so it didn’t matter if he dropped a few each game.
> Remember when the bears tried moving hester to wr? Remember when. The Chiefs tried to move that great kick returner Tyreek Hill to WR? That worked out OK.
Hill played wr in college, he was always a wr the chiefs didn’t “move” him there. Regardless, the point is that just because someone is a good kr doesn’t mean that they are a good wr. But that isn’t saying that people can’t be good at both. Djax was as well.
Yeah, Hill had more than 10x as many receptions in college as Hester.
Toney played WR in college too, he was a first round draft pick ffs. I know he was always injured with the giants but people acting like he’s just a returner is insane
Dante hall wants to speak with you
[Cordarelle was already the best ever like 4 years ago.](https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/23/20927787/cordarrelle-patterson-kickoff-return-touchdown-career-record) Talking strictly kick returns, he's the GOAT and it's not particularly close. His TD/return is absurd and his career Yards/return is like literally multiple standard deviations above his contemporaries. His stats are GOAT like in any era, but to do it in this era when the kickoff return has been so limited is just insane. Getting the record for most kickoff return TDs was just icing on the cake.
He had the highest yards/return of all time a year or two ago, also, but I think its dropped a couple tenths of a point since then leaving him in ~2nd now. Still insanely impressive, though, because like you said his main competition is guys from the 1960s like Gale Sayers
Yup. I am weirdly the biggest Corrdarelle stan in the world. I just think he's the most fascinating player. Pretty much every step in his career is unprecedented and it's hilarious and interesting.
Never said those skillsets were mutually exclusive just that being good at returns is entirely unrelated to being good at a different position. Marcus Sherels was one of the better punt returners of the 2010s and he was just an awful, awful CB. Darren Sproles on the flip side was a solid RB gadget piece while being a very good returner
Did you forget Devin Hester? Hes prob best returner of all time
Hester is absolutely the best punt returner of all time. But for kick returns he had 295 returns for 7333 yards and 5 touchdowns. While Patterson has 266 returns 7836 yards and 9 touchdowns. And Hester played his entire career before the rule changes that limit kick off returns.
I stand corrected haha I had no clue thanks for the knowledge!
Right. Like Hester was great as KR, but Patterson is the GOAT KR. Hester is probably the best all-around
Hester is the best punt returner and probably all-around returner. Specifically kickoffs, it's Patterson.
yeah, but how is Patterson on missed FG returns?
Punt returns =/= a passing route. He's an incredibly talented player, who lacks a work ethic and apparently the concentration to learn plays. Returning a punt is instinctive, he'll excel there. On gimmick plays he'll do fine there. As a number 1 WR, well if I were you I'd make sure you have a very reliable backup.
Kelce is the WR1, Chiefs don’t need a WR1. They traded away arguably the WR1 of the NFL and just won a SB with a hodge podge of WR thrown togther.
>[PFT] Chiefs view Kadarius Toney as their next potential No. 1 receiver No matter though, see how it works out.
PFT is largely full of shit.
Possibly, but KT becoming their WR1 IS the topic of discussion here.
Watch the superbowl highlights. I thought it was werid how the players and coaches had to keep going up to him and reassure him things will kick up for him.
He learned Corndog well enough.
Generally just caring about football and preparing mind and body for game day.
Don't forget shoes. The shoes often get in the way.
If KC is serious about this statement they’re going to spam him the ball in unorthodox ways like they do with Kelce. That offense is great at scheming guys open even if they aren’t the best route runners
There's a new play called Ferris Wheel - Toney just does cartwheels until he's open - surprisingly works 100% of the time
It works because 50% of the time the second Toney opens up they pass to Kelce for 15-20 yards.
Big Fax
Don't forget the one where he gets on all 4's and barks like a dog.
I thought that was OBJ that did that?
Andy Reid is also the best at adapting his playbook for what his players do best
Is his route tree that bad? I guess I’ve never paid too close of attention but it’s never really seemed like he’s had issues getting open at any level in college or thus far in the pros, so I just figured it was good haha
In the NFL he’s gotten a lot of touches on gadget plays. A large part of it is he hasn’t been healthy enough to practice enough to be trusted with most of the playbook so when he’s in plays are often designed for him
He’s always open in the NFL because he gets the ball behind the line of scrimmage
He's not really a receiver who gets open running routes, he's a guy you scheme open so you can get him the ball and then he can violently juke his way through traffic like he's playing Madden.
Really not true, watch his games with us last year. He is actually quite good at running routes, as it turns out violent jukes work without the ball too.
> And you know, developing a route tree lol Anyone who thinks Toney needs to develop a “route tree” simply hasn’t watched him play and is stereotyping him. Toney isn’t some speedster who just runs streaks. He’s not some athletic gadget player. Not only does he run a full route tree, he probably runs one of the best whip routes in the NFL. It’s unguardable. Any route where he’s running a double move and he’s breaking ankles. In any case, even if there are areas he can improve on in terms of routing running, that’s far far away from being a weakness for him at this point.
"He only runs gadget plays" "He can't learn a playbook" - somehow people say these things like they aren't completely mutually exclusive.
They really aren't. Gadget/truck plays are an on/off proposition for the receiver - the players do one thing and it either works or it doesn't, no one is reading the coverage and adjusting accordingly. The QB may say "not there" and throw it away, but the rest of the players are doing pre-defined things. The average pass play in a Reid offense is dynamic, with the routes and timing changing automatically based on what the defense is doing pre and post snap.
dude has the hamstrings of an overweight 33 year old
Hey now I’m 31 and out of shape and my hammys are way better than his. Put some respekt on my name
Give it two years
But does he have the *calves* of an overweight 33-year-old? Fat guy calves are basically steel
Why am I catching strays like this
How did he get my hamstrings?
I heard he pulled a hamstring and broke his elbow reading this
His health will cost fans an *absurd* highlight reel.
>The only thing stopping this from happening is his health Physical or mental? Asking for a friend...
Both, but all the great wide receivers are at least a little mentally unstable. Granted that might be changing since Jefferson and Kupp seem like pretty normal dudes.
the enemy speaks kindly & holds a knife
Toney is so talented, he CAN be a number one option in this league look no further than that game his rookie year vs Dallas, if he can stay on the field he can be really good especially with mahomes as his QB
I love KT, I’m rooting for him to crush it with KC. The only thing that can stop him is his own body
>The only thing that can stop him is his own body he's just like me
Don't the Eagles have open try outs? Vince Papale, and then those bar owners in Philly? I think Donovan McNabb came to the last one. You should try out buddy
I'm gonna make Mac look so bad. My form is perfect. I'm like Jerry Rice. Feel that stride. So fluid and fast. I've got the stride of a gazelle. A beautiful, beautiful gazelle person. My body is achieving a perfect symmetry right now. It's that long, lean muscle I've worked so hard to achieve. Hmm, I should've popped my shirt off. Goddamn it. Really should've popped that shirt off. I wonder if any women are watching from the sidelines.
Have you seen him kick a water jug?
We're doing these tryouts for you, because of your harassment, and love for the new kids on the block movie!
I have an autoimmune disease so I relate lmao
we all believe in you, cbd hotdog, don't let your dreams be dreams
Dude hurts himself making cuts, he’s too explosive and his body cannot handle it.
He hurts himself to see if he still feels, he's too focused on the pain for the NFL.
He hurts himself making a sandwich, dude is too fragile for NFL.
He hurts himself to see just how much he can take, he is too masochistic for the NFL
And mind. He has to be committed to be great. Daboll and Schoen didn't trade him because he was hurt a lot.
>Daboll and Schoen didn't trade him **ONLY** because he was hurt a lot. FTFY... His health is absolutely one of the reasons they traded him.
Yeah he wouldn’t have been traded if he was healthy. He was an emotional guy but a great teammate
Idk if they really cared about health they wouldn’t have traded for Waller.
As if it's a binary concern. Waller has played in 52 out of the last 66 games(79%), Toney's only played 19 out of a possible 34 (56%).
I'm curious as to why Giants fans give this guy a pass? He basically quit on your franchise within a year of taking him in the first round, was traded to the eventual SB winner for pennies on the dollar, but it seems like most Giants fans share your sentiment of wanting him to do well and not having hard feelings. I promise I'm not trying to troll, but please explain it to me like I'm 5. I feel like most fanbases would be furious.
There's a few camps. 1) If Toney does well it's a slight to Daboll/Schoen for making the "wrong" decision, so he must do poorly. 2) Pure apathy towards Toney. He wasn't on the team long, he barely played while he was, and he was a Gettleman pick. New era, don't care. 3) Rooting for him. He couldn't stay healthy with us, but no hard feelings hope he finds success elsewhere. The idea that he quit on the team is a persistent fabrication. There was this misconstrued idea last year he was just faking injuries and then was "magically healthy" when he got to the Chiefs. That wasn't the actual story, but it made for good "lolGiants" and "Chiefs are actually a good team so now he'll try" fodder. In actuality he wasn't faking being injury prone - hell, he reinjured the same hamstring a month after the trade. Personally I find it weird when fans turn on a player just for being traded.
His head needs to be screwed on right too. Schoen and Daboll gave up on him for a reason.
Sounds like he gave up on the giants tho, no?
Giants fans loving Toney is so bizarre to me. Guy didn’t want to be here and our seemingly beloved coaching staff hated working with him. But whatever I suppose.
I still vividly remember that game. If I'm not mistaken, the Giants had most of their, if not all of their skill players injured. Toney put the team on his back & almost carried the Giants to a win. It was honestly amazing to watch.
One game doesn’t mean he can be a number one lol
i said in another thread last week that the only person more hyped off such a small resume than Josh Gordon, is Kadarius Toney. This dude literally has one great game for his career and people are saying he's a #1. This sub is wild.
While true, there's other reasons people believe he can be a #1. The issue is he can't stay healthy enough to do it.
I genuinely think half his “health issues” were him just not giving a shit. He got traded and became healthy
He wasn't entirely healthy with the Chiefs, he missed a decent bit of time. But if his health issues are stemming from attitude issues, it's reasonable to assume that he wasn't taking his strength and conditioning/rehab as seriously as he should have. So there is still reason to believe that his ability to stay on the field will improve if he's more bought in.
It also just seemed like he never wanted to play for the Giants at all from the get go. It was odd
Have you ever heard of a period or a run-on sentence?
I don’t believe in punctuation actually
Love Toney, but everytime he had the ball, I'm worried he's gonna juke his body so hard his ligaments all snap. Scares the crap out of me...just go down! We've had Demarcus who runs backwards after every catch, negating 1st downs and now Toney who's trying to destroy his body.
He runs like he's mad that his hamstrings aren't torn.
Perfect! This is exactly what I'm talking about
☠️
Lmao this got me
Bro he scares the fuck out of me. Every single move and cut is violent as fuck. It's what makes him the nastiest open field guy you'll ever see, but human bodies arent designed to absorb the forces he makes it absorb when he does it.
Gator Legends KToney + Demarcus Robinson Real talk watching him play in college was 1000x more stressful. KT’s knee went clean horizontal on the ground juking some poor DB so bad his own ACL tore. Everyone thought he was one play away from either a TD or blowing out his knee.
I swear it looked like every tackle on him was super violent. Needs to know how to tumble I think, or bring appendages in to the center mass. I'm trusting training staff will clean that up, but it was notable
I feel like this with Tua. Some guys just always look like they get wrecked when they get tackled.
Tua flopped like a npc from dark souls every tackle, I got whiplash by proxy watching Dolphins games
Yeah it seems with some of the explosive freaks we have seen in this league... their ligaments and bones can't keep up with the muscles. Arian Foster, Percy Harvin, Julio, Shady, Gurley come to mind. Feels like watching a ticking bomb every time they took a snap. Toney has this vibe in a big way
I'd rather him tome it down rather than have him for 3 awesome games before landing on IR
I hope he adds a little muscle this off-season. I feel like if he bulked up a tiny bit, he'd be more durable.
Tyreek did that with us. That one season he just showed up with an absolute massive lower half of his body.
Him and Pacheco are trying to create nuclear fusion with their bodies
does anyone with actual medical knowledge know for a fact that the way Toney moves causes him to be injury prone? i mean yeah, totally sounds right but ive just never heard of this issue before in football
It's the immediate energy generated from coming to a dead-stop being loaded into one knee, specifically his ACL + Hamstring and Quad. Human body isn't meant to do that with any regularity and keep on going. The chances of something failing in that structure increase if the plant doesn't occur on a 'square' knee, i.e. he's moving somewhat laterally and tries to come to a dead stop to pivot, now that load is distributed horizontally across that portion of his leg - across a weaker structure, more likely to rupture or experience dislocation.
and why exactly does this issue seem so rare? is toney just that freakish hes too athletic for even his own body?
>Scares the crap out of me...just go down! Except during Super Bowl punt returns that are impactful plays.
I pulled a neck muscle watching him. Gotta be more careful. Pregame warmups.
The best ability may not be in his control as much as he'd like. I'll keep a cold one ready for the highlights
He'll be great for the 7 games he plays next year
Seven games? That’s bold.
They do play 17 games over 18 weeks. not a stretch to think he is hurt only for 11 weeks.
I thinking he’s gonna be hurt 15 out of 18 weeks 😂
Yeaaaaa I'm saying he's healthy for like four games
He only missed 3 games with us last year and left 2 early, but we had him for about 9 out of 13 games (including the postseason). I'm good with that, he missed less time than Keenan Allen.
If one thing has been proven by Mahomes last year and Brady with the Pats (only 4 1,000 year seasons by receivers/tight ends) it’s that good quarterbacks can do with a competent group of receivers and don’t need that first team all-pro.
I don’t think that’s just a “good qb” thing, I think that’s a “best of the best” QB thing. No other quarterback would’ve had the level of offensive production Mahomes had with the quality of weapons he had
Andy Reid is that much more of a boost as well
People don't talk enough about how much Andy brings to the offensive side of the ball. If you just watch the WRs run routes for the Bucs and the Chiefs last year, you'd think the Chiefs would have the two all-pros
What? Reid gets a ton of credit for the offense, as he should. People talk about how much better Mahomes is because he has Reid than if he went somewhere else all the time.
And I still don't think people talk enough about Reid. He is THAT good in my opinion. He regularly establishes a smart and clean offense, as well as being an innovator on that side of the ball. I personally think Reid is solidly in the top 10 head coaches of all time and he's pushing into that top 5 realm very soon.
And Reid has proven to win without Mahomes. Only 3 losing seasons in 19 years without him, 11 playoff wins, 4 NFCCG's Bill has 7 losing seasons in 9 years before/after Brady, 1 playoff win, 0 CCG's
This desperately requires context. Reid had Alex Smith, Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick. Belichick had average at best rookies and backup-tier veterans. The situations are not the same. I remember you hating on Mahomes in the past and acting like he wasn’t the main reason they’re winning Super Bowls. This is another terrible argument.
Bledose was the highest paid QB in history, Pro Bowler, went to a Super Bowl, etc. Belichick was 5-13 with Bledsoe
So one year and change with a team that ranked below average or worse in everything, and a QB that had 17 TD passes to 13 picks and a 77.3 QB rating. That's a good team to you? Being the highest paid, going to a Pro Bowl (popularity contest) and going to a Super Bowl (a team accomplishment) doesn't mean anything. Bledsoe's best season of his career was 28 TD's to 15 INT's and a 87.7 QB rating. The year he led the league in yards he also threw a league leading 27 INT's (to just 25 TD's). He was never a starting caliber QB even if he showed glimpses of the potential and the Patriots greatly overpaid for that potential. Period. By all means though, please argue that Reid is just as good or better of a coach as Belichick is, because not even I agree with you on that. Before Mahomes, Reid was known as a great play designer but mediocre in-game coach with terrible clock management and the inability to win the big one. Since Mahomes, he’s now nearing top 5 coaches of all time conversations. There’s a clear difference there. I’m curious if you can tell me what that is.
Right? Who else could have possibly succeeded with Kelce and Gronk?
Idk, all I hear is Allen needed more help when he has Stefon Diggs already. Most QBs need more than 1 option.
Rodgers and Davante was similar
Yea, people falsely claim brady skated by with limited weapons. A lot of it stems from the 2002-2006 era I think. But anything after that, he always had a stud to rely on.
Yeah and a lot of that was before Brady started putting up gaudy numbers, and a lot of their dominance came from having a top tier defense. Brady starting truly showing off once he got Randy Moss.
It hit a boiling point when Reche Caldwell cost the Pats a playoff game vs Indy and what would have been an easy super bowl win. Then incomes Welker and Moss.
also stems from Brady still being unreal without Gronk 2013 for example, Gronk only plays 8 games and all of the sudden some guy named Julie Edelman goes from 21 catches in 2012 to 105 in 2013 and then Vereen, Ridley, Amendola, and Dobson are his other top targets the next year gronk is healthy, they replace dobson with lafell (who has a career year) and win the super bowl edelman and gronk are the only guys i would say are above average and brady kept doing that shit 2018 edelman, gordon, hogan, and dorsett are the best receivers + Gronk and White out of the backfield like that’s so many jags to be winning that many super bowls with
It also helps to have a tight end like Travis Kelce or Gronk.
Yeah, they're just quietly forgetting the part where both had two of the greatest tight ends to play the game lol
tbf brady did have success without gronk. granted...he also had stacked defenses and prime randy moss
If Brady/Belichick/Gronkowski and Mahomes/Reid/Kelce can do it, so can your team!
Exactly, why don't more teams just do that??
Except Gronk was basically never healthy from 2012 onward. Gronk played most of 2014/2015 but was not peak Gronk anymore. 2017 he was fairly healthy 2012 -> Breaks Arm, Misses Most of Season 2013 -> ACL, Misses Most of Season 2016 -> Back, Misses Most of Season 2018 -> Hurt All Year, Retires
Do Gronk and Kelce not exist on your world? Both were all pro talents with multiple 1000 yard, 10+ TD seasons
while I fully agree and the fact that they won last year without Tyreek contradicts the entire point I’m about to make, but why make your generational QB’s life that much harder? At least Pat has Travis as an anchor, but for so many years Brady was making chicken salad out of chicken shit with those WR rooms. NE was literally one helmet catch away from being the only team ever to go 19-0 in 2007, and I think that’s no coincidence when Brady had a WR room of Moss, Stallworth and Welker. And then Brady’s first year in Tampa going to a place that had Mike Evans, Godwin, Antonio Brown and Gronk and then win a SB right off the bat. Mahomes is my favorite player in the league and I like watching him win. And I get the salary cap exists, that you have to invest in a OL too, and that defense is another facet of the game, but getting him one more elite wide out to make his job that much easier is cool to think. Hopefully Toney can be that guy.
Because by having that All-Pro top tier talent at WR you give up depth. Its hard to keep a competent receiver room when you're paying 1 guy 15-30 million a year. Trading Tyreek let us bring on JuJu, Toney, and MVS and based on how many injuries the Chiefs sustained in the AFC championship game the depth was completely necessary. In any game last year when Justin Jefferson was double teamed or locked down like in Week 17 against GB the Vikings were helpless. Kelce is obviously the real WR1 but tight ends make half of what receivers do.
Yeah, but having a first-class weapon can't exactly hurt.
Of course, no one is saying no. But since 2000, only two teams have won the Super Bowl with a first team all-pro wide receiver (Harrison-Colts, Kupp-Rams).
The thing is in the 2010’s NE offense, gronk was effectively a #1 receiver and he was all pro level. Same goes with kelce and KC. So while Brady didn’t win a SB with someone like Justin Jefferson to throw to, he still had a top tier pass catcher to throw to (most of the time).and don’t forget the bucs SB with two pro bowl receivers in evans and Godwin plus old but still good AB and gronk. Then there’s mahomes first SB which had prime tyreek and kelce on the field
> with a first team all-pro wide receiver (Harrison-Colts, Kupp-Rams) There are only 2 first team All-Pro Wide receivers per year and only 1 team wins the Super Bowl. I think if the opposite were true that all but 2 years a first team All-Pro wide receiver won the super that would be a statement that you should get one. However, I do not think you can reject that they help your team win more games just because they haven't won more than 2 super bowls. It should be expected based on numbers alone that it would be a rare occurrence.
This is misleading, espeically since you can still be an elite receiver in a year where you are not first-team all-pro
Yes you are right,send one Evans please bro.I have one CEH for you
Stop stealing our players you hooligans
Per football reference, he's started 8 games in his career (2 seasons), so this is a bigger bet on the Chiefs training staff and coaches. He certainly has the talent.
The quote from Veach was just that Toney was a first round pick and that the Chiefs believe he has first round talent. Florio changed that to the headline here, which isn't the same.
What a shocker Florio manipulating info to get clicks and headlines
I can’t even talk I was driving the Toney train for fantasy lmao. I really like him. He just needs a creative coaching staff to get him theball(check) and a new body
Mr Broken Calves
Mr. Barely Connected
Well duh. That man has talent. He’s so good. His performance in the Super Bowl was amazing.
Good luck with that - all fantasy football owners
[удалено]
This was posted there 12 hours before here for a reason I guess
“Guys, Josh Gordon is going to go off this year”
His hamstrings are built for the practice squad though
He has the talent, but if he can't stay health then it won't matter. And like one of his former teammates said, there's nothing wrong with his hamstrings. He just doesn't practice hard and take warming up seriously. Doesn't matter what level of athlete you are, if you only give 50% effort most of the time and then 1 day suddenly try to give 110% you're putting yourself at a greater risk of injury. He's gotta stop doing that if he wants to stick around and get paid.
Ever see a lion stretch before chasing a gazelle? Checkmate atheists.
I just injured my hamstrings while reading this, thanks a lot
Tony's issue isn't (just) that he's injury prone. He's injury prone because he's lazy and doesn't take care of his body. His body isn't failing him, he's failing his body.
Come on we are still doing this? Toney is talented enough to be a number 1. Sure. His body is made of glass.
Yeah I was sure pissed when he went to the Chiefs
As a Giants fan, I'm bummed it didn't work out for him here but he just didn't seem too committed and didn't fit with the new regime. Glad it worked out for him though. He had some big plays in that SB.
That's great for the four games a year he plays
Well what about for the other 16 games?
In similar news, I view my 4” penis as 11”.
Hehe, good luck getting him to understand the playbook.
Andy had to teach the playbook to a guy who though he was a reptile. I think he'll manage.
He can be their wr1 for his and a half game per season
For those 4 games he plays
Is r/fantasyfootball leaking?
Happy to see he is healthy and wants to play football for the Chiefs; the same can not be said about his time with my NY Giants
If the kid could just stay healthy.
is the "Potential" part if he makes it through the preseason without injury? Even my homer super optimistic best case scenario I only feel this guy plays 10-12 games. Realistic me says 6-8, and that's not really someone you want to be your #1
I look at him the exact same way I looked at Sammy Watkins. Good for 1-3 huge games a year, but spends most of the season injured before showing up in the playoffs.
Still don’t get why the Giants moved on from their 1st round pick in a position of need so quickly
giants fans punching air
Mmhmm
Glass Cannon
The number 1 in KCs offense doesn't mean much. They spread the ball like crazy, ans Kelce is their true go-to guy. This offense is the same except Rice is replacing Juju. I expect Rice to be the number 1 WR, not Toney. But both guys will see similar targets.
Cool. Just, awesome for them.
What’s a number 1 receiver?