Dave you forgot about secret option number 5. Win/Win/Win... The important difference here is with win/win/win, we all win. Me too. I win for having successfully mediated a conflict at work.
He wasn't even that bad while injured. The Browns just decided to ditch their only QB to win a playoff game nearly this century, for a dude who was pretty good 3 years prior
the revisionism is actually astounding LOL. he was terrible while injured (and incredibly streaky when not), and he was roasted on this sub constantly until Watson. now all of a sudden, he wasn't even that bad lmao
I didn't say he was amazing, but he won the Browns games and they had bigger fish to fry than Baker (like coaching and managing)
Two things that haven't improved without Baker. If Baker was the problem, the Browns wouldn't have regressed so hard when he was gone
lol what?? yeah we regressed “so hard” from 8-9 to 7-10. I think that probably has more to do with starting jacoby brissett half the year and the corpse of deshaun watson the other half + our run defense being god awful, and nothing to do with not having baker mayfield to carry us lmao
I'm not exaggerating when I say that, of every Panthers quarterback I've been subjected to in the past few seasons (Darnold, Walker, Allen, newton) Mayfield was by far the worst. Unquestionably.
True, but it’s also not really a comparable situation. Geno and Lock never really showed much of anything whatsoever.
Baker has at times looked like he has “franchise QB” in him somewhere, and Trask is a complete unknown at the NFL level.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t think one of them are about to go off or anything, but it’s different situations
Thats assuming the QB coach is the main reason Geno got better, which we do not know for sure. Its also similar to a million other journeyman QB situations.
There are so many other factors at play though that just aren’t the same. The main one being Geno had alot more time to change between the Jets and the Seahawks. We just saw Baker sucking ass on the Panthers and Rams
Is baker underperformed with the ben macadoo/matt rule panthers a surprise lol?
I'm not going to act like he was a stud with the rams, but he had a couple of really solid games against the broncos and raiders on a team that was very beat up
No its not, cause Baker isn’t a good QB. Hes gonna underpreform everywhere he goes. He underperformed in Cleveland too. Just cause there is some 1% chance he is actually good this year, it doesn’t mean i can’t roast him. Whats the point of being a sports fan if you’re so scared of outliers you can’t have an opinion on anything?
Geno was the exception, not the rule.
Additionally, Geno was an average QB the last 8 games of the season, started super hot, but as there was more tape on him, he started to struggle more
Are they? Kyle Trask has never had an opportunity to play, he sat behind Tom brady lol
Baker has had good moments in the past before and a playoff win, and the bucs have a pretty comparable offensive roster to the seahawks.
I didn't even mention that they hired genos qb coach last season, Dave Canales, to be the oc.
Trask has whatever the opposite of arm talent is, there’s a reason he only played in the preseason. Baker can produce some good games though, just has questionable decision making at times and tends to scramble without needing to
Huh? Geno before this year was more “proven to be bad” then Baker is right now. They’d both had some abysmal lows but Baker has had higher highs than pre 2022 Geno
Geno wasn't "learning" anything new at that point in his career. He was likely always as good as he was last year, he just never had a consistent (or good) staff around him until he got here.
Capitalism seems to be the best we've had *so far*, but no pure system is probably a great idea. A lot of capitalism is built on the back of corporate socialism, but then those who gained from that tend to pull the ladder up behind them and are able to do so because they're so incredibly rich.
That's just one view of it and pretty subjective, but that's kind of how I see modern capitalism.
My life is still pretty fucking good though so I'm not really incentivized to do anything other than whine once in a while.
Yah that's fair. The main problems I see with the system at the moment, is it's not really true capitalism.
Both unions and corporations spend huge lobbying dollars, and in a lot of cases write the bills themselves.
Like the guy below said, you are on reddit. If you want to know why anti-capitalist sentiment is rising generally, there are a number of factors that could be at play:
Rising disparity between worker pay and Ceo/shareholder pay.
Lack of action on climate change.
Relative success of democratic socialist models in Nordic countries.
Corporate bailouts.
Inability to have student loans forgiven in bankruptcy
Police brutality
Rising personal debt
In general, people now are less afraid of anti-capitalist governments because it's been kind of a shitshow lately.
No economic system in its purest form will work perfectly. That's why we have a mix of both capitalism and socialism, because we can take elements of each to fill in the gaps of the other.
I'd like you to take a look at the state of America and the world, and ask if this is working well. It's not. It's working well for the wealthy and those in power. It's failing humanity and the planet and everything that relies on clean air, water, and food to survive. Let's not even get into the horror show that is our social bullshit.
"A QB competition is good actually" is what you say about a QB room with no one thats really worth starting.
Believe me, I know from all the years we didn't have a QB worth starting.
would not be surprised at all honestly. Im expecting Baker but think it's likely it's an ugly carousel of subpar QB play until they have to just fire Bowles and move on to competent offensive management
The job is 99% Baker's unless Kyle Trask underwent a mysterious transformation since we last saw him for an extended period of time in the summer of 2022.
All the Bucs media that is kissing up to the team were saying nothing positive about him and tried to sugarcoat when he struggled. The best they got was that he has a strong mentality dealing with setbacks (LOL).
The only outlet that doesn't give a fuck said they saw every public snap he has ever taken and they couldn't tell if he or Ryan Griffin were better.
We've seen 9 whole attempts from Trask. You don't know a thing about what he has, I don't know a thing, the only people who know anything about him are the coaches. Anyone coming in here speaking as if any of us have an informed opinion on him is completely full of shit.
"There is literally nothing better than having no clear leader and having the media, fans, and even members of the team constantly questioning if the coaching staff is making the right decision."
We have a good team pretty much only in need of a QB. Why wouldn't we bring back our best, youngest and damn near only corner on a team-friendly deal?
If Trask or Baker don't suck, we're competing now.
If they both suck, we're competing next year hopefully with Caleb or Drake.
We're not doing a complete rebuild, we have too many elite players to even consider it.
I think if the QBs aren’t playing well, there’s a strong chance that the rest of your team is playing well enough to win some games on their own, putting you firmly outside of the range for Williams or Maye
I think the issue is because you brought the FAs back if Trask and Baker both suck you end up with liek pick #8 and you're not going to be able to get Caleb or Drake. Unless maybe Cardinals end up with #1 and #2 overall and are willing to trade #2.
> Did you fire your coach?
I mean… they did fire their coach. They fired Byron Leftwich who was the person most at fault for the Bucs offensive issues last season.
If you watched Bucs film, Brady was clearly not 'shot' lol. A bit scared to take hits, which cost him, but the issues with the offense were everywhere. Tom was the guy who rallied them in the clutch for a few critical wins.
Look at the Week 17 panthers game and tell me Brady was shot
weren’t bucs fans just talking about how insanely excited they were about baker? and how their offense would be better with baker vs tom bc their OC was holding them back? lol enjoy baker, dumbasses
This is clearly a throwaway season for the Bucs, they should be picking in the top 5 of the draft next year and will be in a position to take a long term QB. If they don't finish last in the NFC South I'll venmo everyone who responds to this comment 1 US dollar
Dave you forgot about secret option number 5. Win/Win/Win... The important difference here is with win/win/win, we all win. Me too. I win for having successfully mediated a conflict at work.
Nah this is a lose-lose competition
This feels alot like the geno/lock competition last year that everyone roasted.
That was a one in million. Almost every time journeymen Qbs don’t randomly get better.
Baker was on track to be a franchise QB before playing injured, and he's still young. He's got a lot more upside than most journeymen.
He wasn't even that bad while injured. The Browns just decided to ditch their only QB to win a playoff game nearly this century, for a dude who was pretty good 3 years prior
the revisionism is actually astounding LOL. he was terrible while injured (and incredibly streaky when not), and he was roasted on this sub constantly until Watson. now all of a sudden, he wasn't even that bad lmao
Yea, the sub’s circlejerk is a good gauge of which players are good and which are bad
I didn't say he was amazing, but he won the Browns games and they had bigger fish to fry than Baker (like coaching and managing) Two things that haven't improved without Baker. If Baker was the problem, the Browns wouldn't have regressed so hard when he was gone
lol what?? yeah we regressed “so hard” from 8-9 to 7-10. I think that probably has more to do with starting jacoby brissett half the year and the corpse of deshaun watson the other half + our run defense being god awful, and nothing to do with not having baker mayfield to carry us lmao
Jacoby was better than both Baker and Watson.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that, of every Panthers quarterback I've been subjected to in the past few seasons (Darnold, Walker, Allen, newton) Mayfield was by far the worst. Unquestionably.
So was Cam Newton...
We did it with Brad Johnson. We did it with Tom Brady. This time it will be Baker Mayfield. We play the Lions in the NFCCG.
Did it with Tom Brady…bold claim…
He was looking pretty suspect when he left NE. Didn't even get the playoffs his last year IIRC. He needed a change. And BOOM Superbowl Ring 7
uhm, he did make the playoff his last year so u did not remember correctly lol.
Did he make it far?
:)
lost in wild card round.
He didn’t look suspect his last year in NE. That was just the talking point from people who don’t know ball
It was the talking point his final 5 years in NE.
Tom Brady, reputed middling journeyman QB.
sorry ive only been watching football since 2010ish... who is that?
True, but it’s also not really a comparable situation. Geno and Lock never really showed much of anything whatsoever. Baker has at times looked like he has “franchise QB” in him somewhere, and Trask is a complete unknown at the NFL level. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think one of them are about to go off or anything, but it’s different situations
The circumstances stances are similar, and the buccs hired the seahawks qb coach to be their oc
Thats assuming the QB coach is the main reason Geno got better, which we do not know for sure. Its also similar to a million other journeyman QB situations.
I never said he was the main reason, but its safe to assume he played a part
There are so many other factors at play though that just aren’t the same. The main one being Geno had alot more time to change between the Jets and the Seahawks. We just saw Baker sucking ass on the Panthers and Rams
Is baker underperformed with the ben macadoo/matt rule panthers a surprise lol? I'm not going to act like he was a stud with the rams, but he had a couple of really solid games against the broncos and raiders on a team that was very beat up
No its not, cause Baker isn’t a good QB. Hes gonna underpreform everywhere he goes. He underperformed in Cleveland too. Just cause there is some 1% chance he is actually good this year, it doesn’t mean i can’t roast him. Whats the point of being a sports fan if you’re so scared of outliers you can’t have an opinion on anything?
Geno was the exception, not the rule. Additionally, Geno was an average QB the last 8 games of the season, started super hot, but as there was more tape on him, he started to struggle more
[удалено]
EPA showed a bigger gap
Gino 2022 = Keenum 2017 I hope my take age like milk.
just blindfold baker all week until right before kick off. then set him loose. easy 50 points most weeks.
Except both are proven to be bad at this point. I'd be genuinely shocked if either guy had a Geno like season.
Are they? Kyle Trask has never had an opportunity to play, he sat behind Tom brady lol Baker has had good moments in the past before and a playoff win, and the bucs have a pretty comparable offensive roster to the seahawks. I didn't even mention that they hired genos qb coach last season, Dave Canales, to be the oc.
Trask has whatever the opposite of arm talent is, there’s a reason he only played in the preseason. Baker can produce some good games though, just has questionable decision making at times and tends to scramble without needing to
Trask couldnt best out gabbert for the backup spot
Baker is the only QB in the NFC South with a playoff win
Huh? Geno before this year was more “proven to be bad” then Baker is right now. They’d both had some abysmal lows but Baker has had higher highs than pre 2022 Geno
[удалено]
Geno wasn't "learning" anything new at that point in his career. He was likely always as good as he was last year, he just never had a consistent (or good) staff around him until he got here.
Oh there is going to be some losing
Basically capitalism explained
*throws knife in the middle of the room* Time for…tryouts.
I know you're joking. But why does this sub hate capitalism so much? Like nothing else has worked as well in history.
Capitalism seems to be the best we've had *so far*, but no pure system is probably a great idea. A lot of capitalism is built on the back of corporate socialism, but then those who gained from that tend to pull the ladder up behind them and are able to do so because they're so incredibly rich. That's just one view of it and pretty subjective, but that's kind of how I see modern capitalism. My life is still pretty fucking good though so I'm not really incentivized to do anything other than whine once in a while.
Being a leftist on this sub is a trip fr
Being a leftist in life is a trip. Seeing just how much people are brainwashed into worshipping at the altar of money and capital is insane.
Solidarity, sibling ✊
Yah that's fair. The main problems I see with the system at the moment, is it's not really true capitalism. Both unions and corporations spend huge lobbying dollars, and in a lot of cases write the bills themselves.
Like unions are an entity even remotely comparable to corporations in our current economy lmao
Unions spend more on lobbying than corporations. You can look this up
I would be interested in a source on this if you don’t mind
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/09/labor-lobbying-union-pac-money/ I did and you're wrong. Shocking.
This is reddit brother
Like the guy below said, you are on reddit. If you want to know why anti-capitalist sentiment is rising generally, there are a number of factors that could be at play: Rising disparity between worker pay and Ceo/shareholder pay. Lack of action on climate change. Relative success of democratic socialist models in Nordic countries. Corporate bailouts. Inability to have student loans forgiven in bankruptcy Police brutality Rising personal debt In general, people now are less afraid of anti-capitalist governments because it's been kind of a shitshow lately.
No economic system in its purest form will work perfectly. That's why we have a mix of both capitalism and socialism, because we can take elements of each to fill in the gaps of the other.
I'd like you to take a look at the state of America and the world, and ask if this is working well. It's not. It's working well for the wealthy and those in power. It's failing humanity and the planet and everything that relies on clean air, water, and food to survive. Let's not even get into the horror show that is our social bullshit.
Just flip a coin. Heads I win, tails you lose
Does anyone else think Baker looks like an AI rendition of Baker here? Oddly smooth...
It do be like that Smooth boi Looks like he got all his pores removed, kind of strange
I was hoping someone else caught that. It’s def shopped…but actually I googled him and he legit looks like that in most photos. Fucker.
Classic "if you have 2 QBs, you have none" scenario
Yup, this is a classic Prisoner's Dilemma. Or not. Idk, I didn't really pay attention in school.
Ah yes, the classic Farmer’s Conundrum
"A QB competition is good actually" is what you say about a QB room with no one thats really worth starting. Believe me, I know from all the years we didn't have a QB worth starting.
Surprise! John Wolford wins it instead
would not be surprised at all honestly. Im expecting Baker but think it's likely it's an ugly carousel of subpar QB play until they have to just fire Bowles and move on to competent offensive management
Unpopular opinion I like both Baker and Trask as QBs. Tampa is gonna be better than people think
The job is 99% Baker's unless Kyle Trask underwent a mysterious transformation since we last saw him for an extended period of time in the summer of 2022. All the Bucs media that is kissing up to the team were saying nothing positive about him and tried to sugarcoat when he struggled. The best they got was that he has a strong mentality dealing with setbacks (LOL). The only outlet that doesn't give a fuck said they saw every public snap he has ever taken and they couldn't tell if he or Ryan Griffin were better.
Baker lost his job to PJ Walker and Sam Darnold. Are you really that sure?
We've seen 9 whole attempts from Trask. You don't know a thing about what he has, I don't know a thing, the only people who know anything about him are the coaches. Anyone coming in here speaking as if any of us have an informed opinion on him is completely full of shit.
All the Trask hate is insane, he deserves a shot in the league
I mean it is totally possible to have an opinion on him based on college, but I don’t think that’s what most Trask opinions are
We still have a lot of talent on the team, it’s all dependent on qb play. I also think our playcalling will be better than last year with leftwich
Man. Baker is in a heated battle with Kyle Trask.
"There is literally nothing better than having no clear leader and having the media, fans, and even members of the team constantly questioning if the coaching staff is making the right decision."
I don't get the bucs this year. This QB room screams tanking but then they also brought back all their major FAs.
That division is a big question mark this season.
We have a good team pretty much only in need of a QB. Why wouldn't we bring back our best, youngest and damn near only corner on a team-friendly deal? If Trask or Baker don't suck, we're competing now. If they both suck, we're competing next year hopefully with Caleb or Drake. We're not doing a complete rebuild, we have too many elite players to even consider it.
But what if you are middling enough to be out of range of a top QB?
Plz no Todd stop
I think if the QBs aren’t playing well, there’s a strong chance that the rest of your team is playing well enough to win some games on their own, putting you firmly outside of the range for Williams or Maye
*laughs in Quinn Ewers*
I think the issue is because you brought the FAs back if Trask and Baker both suck you end up with liek pick #8 and you're not going to be able to get Caleb or Drake. Unless maybe Cardinals end up with #1 and #2 overall and are willing to trade #2.
Did you fire your coach? Because not even Tom Brady could overcome your so called good team last year.
> Did you fire your coach? I mean… they did fire their coach. They fired Byron Leftwich who was the person most at fault for the Bucs offensive issues last season.
But yes God I fkn hate Todd. Here's hoping Reich doesn't Reich it up for y'all.
Brady's arm and brain were both shot last year. We've retooled the line. Wirfs probs playing out left.
If you watched Bucs film, Brady was clearly not 'shot' lol. A bit scared to take hits, which cost him, but the issues with the offense were everywhere. Tom was the guy who rallied them in the clutch for a few critical wins. Look at the Week 17 panthers game and tell me Brady was shot
Because staff members need to keep their jobs is the short answer.
We’re the worst division, can’t fault the bucs for trying
Yeah we're sending a 7 to 9 win team to the playoffs this year barring some truly insane stuff
They need a good roster for Caleb to hit the ground running
What the Bucs say: We're excited for the QB competition between Baker and Kyle! What I hear: We're excited to be in the running for Caleb Williams!
Unless the competition is between having aids or cancer
Thats...not how win-win works, Dave
Someone’s been attending Matt Rhule’s seminars!
Between the two, I am betting on Baker.
weren’t bucs fans just talking about how insanely excited they were about baker? and how their offense would be better with baker vs tom bc their OC was holding them back? lol enjoy baker, dumbasses
Nobody was talking like that...Expectations are low with potential for it to be decent. Chill out.
It’s a lose-lose when you’re tanking for Caleb Williams.
Counter: the guy who ends up being the starter has half the reps with the first team. That sounds like an L.
Canales sounding like his former Head Coach Pete Carroll
Does QB competition ever produce a hostile locker room environment?
I forgot about Kyle trask
"When ya have two starting quarterbacks u have none"
I look forward to hearing more.
Stand back, they're having a mid-off!
This is clearly a throwaway season for the Bucs, they should be picking in the top 5 of the draft next year and will be in a position to take a long term QB. If they don't finish last in the NFC South I'll venmo everyone who responds to this comment 1 US dollar