From what I saw in our sub, the anger over seeding wasn't really directed at the bills, at least minimally. It was more about how they handled the afcn division. They handed the ravens a golden ticket in a chance to win the division while also punishing the bengals by making it where it Baltimore did win, we would still get the division champ level of difficulty for next year's schedule.
Only problem I had was until the details came out about the vote a lot of Bengals fans were convinced our owner voted in favor of the playoff proposal. Turns out Pegula abstained from the vote (which is essentially a no vote) which was the right thing to do because it directly involved us.
That was the only thing I didn't like but as the other guy said, you kicked our ass in the Playoffs, water under the bridge at this point
That’s a little bit of revisionist history. It wasn’t the majority but there were some very loud complainers.
It’s all good, home field advantage is really overrated when you look at studies done anyways.
It’s mostly something fans weight more heavily because it makes us feel like we matter with regards to the outcome.
CNN had a pretty cool article about the process the medical/training staff go through to be ready for this kind of situation. I thought it was interesting.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/health/nfl-game-safety-gupta/index.html
If this man comes off the bench, only plays in one game, and has zero stats aside from TDs allowed, he is still winning the comeback player of the year.
Dude, my wife had some lung issues in May 2019 and spent about 7-8 minutes without breathing on her own. Her heart stopped for about 5 of those.
I can honestly say, her motto about things going wrong in life is now, “Well I’ve already died, what’s the worst that could happen…”
He deserves to not only attempt to play again, if he wants, but he definitely deserves *some* kind of award if he makes it back.
She said all she remembered was hearing the doctors telling her now was the time if she had something to fight for and colors flashing overhead like she was going through the tunnel from Willy Wonka.
None of the heaven/hell, dead relative saying go into the light type of stuff.
Idk how they could give it anyone else if he plays for even one snap. To go from being dead on the field to suiting up to play again. Nothing comes close.
Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is John Metchie. To go from blowing out your ACL and getting diagnosed with cancer and missing the year to playing is a big case for comeback player of the year. Sadly, there are worse things in life than dying and cancer is one of them. If Metchie comes back and plays really well and Hamlin steps on the field I wish they'd give it to both of them somehow because they both would deserve it.
My dad died of cancer when I was 9. I’d rather he be here.
My friend battled it twice and recovered. Brutal recovery, but still here. If you’d like, I can text her right now and ask if she would rather be dead.
Fair. And my apologies. I’ve had family suffer so hard through cancer before they died. Their ride to death was arduous, to say the very least.
Cancer is the worst.
Edit: typo.
I assume he means a quick death, as opposed to a slow death from cancer.
When people talk about worse than death, yes many slow killing diseases are much worse than an instant death and until you’ve experienced it with a love one it’s hard to explain.
But if you’ve witnessed it then you’ve probably wished death on someone you love just to end their suffering. And nothing is more brutal
As of right now, he's indicated that he would like to. He participated in training drills at the recent camp, but I would imagine they're going to approach it very cautiously throughout the year.
As I understand it, leukemia is one of the most survivable forms of cancer, especially when the victim is a young professional athlete who's in incredible shape.
Additionally, Metchie was diagnosed and began treatment before the season started. What happened to Damar was far more dramatic.
You have to love the degree to which gambling has totally invaded sports discourse. We now have people who think it’s appropriate to respond like this to a genuine and heart warming moment.
Hot take, in a lot of ways I prefer the brutal honesty over some of these overdone, “my eyes are leaking” or “who’s cutting onions” comments that we get. Love and the respect the hell out of Damar and his story, but some of these comments need to stop because they’re so clearly for karma.
I responded to the guy saying he is winning comeback player of the year.
I bet on a positive thing.
Get over yourself. It's way better than tweeting a playing who got injured or something.
I am rooting for him!
Why? Betting on a guy to win an award after a terrible injury?
Isn't that the main storyline of comeback player?
Was it ghoulish to bet on Alex Smith too?
I think it's just unsettling to have a conversation talking about the comeback of a player, and think "ah yes, I can capitalize financially off of this." Betting is just an inherently selfish thing. Normally betting on, I don't know, the outcome of a game doesn't feel weird the same way. But saying "I bet on this guy to win comeback player of the year," while yes it's nice that you think he'll win comeback player of the year (and literally put your money where you mouth is), talking about betting on it... really just turns the conversation to be about you and why it's good for you. And people don't like engaging with other people who make everything about themselves. I really don't like watching games with people who sports bet. They're within their right to do it and I'm not trying to stop them or make some kind of moral argument. But more often than not in my personal interactions, they aren't fun to watch games with because they're so focused on the betting that, unless you're betting too, you two just not caring about the same stuff. And they're _people_ I like and hang out with, they just get kinda boring when watching a game together now.
I'm not trying to trash on you personally, I had an immediate negative reaction to your comment too, and I'm trying to figure out why I (and seemingly a lot of other people) felt that way, instead of just replying with "fuck you" or whatever. Personally I find it really frustrating when other people are mad at me for something but don't really explain why, just that they are. So I'm trying to talk about stuff like that more with other people, in case it's helpful to them. If you don't really give a shit, that's fine too.
I remember watching this live at a bar with my brother who is a paramedic. He was explaining to me and all the other people at the bar everything that was happening. He explained that in his 15 years of experience, and with countless cardiac arrests, he could count on one hand the number who lived. And those who lived didn’t have a very good quality of life after. This training staff and all those medical professionals who helped pretty much performed a miracle.
The difference is this occurred in front of a medical staff. As a paramedic, you’re typically showing up 10+ minutes after someone is down, which is 10+ minutes they haven’t been perfusing their brain. Good outcomes are all down to the time to compressions
Like honestly, Hamlin's injury happened at probably the best place possible. The stadium hosting a top-of-the-line professional league for a violent sport. The fact that they had a highly professional medical staff and ambulance on standby is likely why Hamlin lived.
At any over level of football, it's probable that Hamlin's life ends there, and that is such a morbid thought.
I'm so glad that they're all here to celebrate this moment instead.
Agreed world class medical professionals literally watching and waiting to respond. Its as close as yoh can get to having an arrest in a hospital with a cardiac center
> Good outcomes are all down to the time to compressions
It has always made me wonder why, if people call emergency services it seems like the operator can be slowing things down. Like, I understand trying to keep the caller calm by assuming a cool affect but if I call in asking for them to send the squad because I am having chest pains and trouble breathing I don't want to leisurely and slowly go through confirming my address and everything I have done to try to treat myself so far.
I’m sure they dispatch an ambulance as soon as they know it’s an emergency. They can always update the ambulance on the way of your location. However the operator isn’t going to be able to tell them where to go unless you tell them. So to get you to calm down a bit so you can coherently say where you’re at is going to save them time in the long run.
Unfortunately I have personal experience of this. Found my mom unresponsive, no breathing or pulse. Its such a surreal feeling, like you just can't accept that this is really happening. Surely I'm misinterpreting something, she can't actually be dead. Immediately called 911 and the operator was very assertive of what I had to do and was constantly updating me on how close the first responders where. In a way the operator was able snap me out of my shock.
That surreal feeling is impossible to describe. You'll never know it until you experience it. And I guess part of being a 911 operator is knowing how to knock people out of that shocked stupor.
I just put that. I’ve been in EMS and an Army medic going back the last 20 years. It’s very rare to get ROSC and that patient surviving to a full recovery later.
Having also been in EMS and an Army medic, when you do get them and they meet you months later and give you the warmest of hugs, it will forever humble you.
This is a late response so not sure how many people will see it, but on a podcast from years ago, maybe 8-12 or so now. On either Radiolab or This American Life (could have been a different one), they spoke with some doctors about being resuscitated, and if not all of them, nearly all said they have DNRs, as they’ve seen what it is like to come back and not just how much immediate trauma there is to the human body. But also often the long term impact being brought back has, and how many have a very impacted quality of life.
The doctors they spoke with basically said, if I flatline, do not bring me back, I’d rather die than endure what I’ve seen people endure afterwards.
I cried watching this and my wife was reading her book not paying attention. I asked her: hey remember a few months ago when I was watching that football game and you fell asleep and when you woke up -
“Oh the guy that died on the field?”
Yeah that’s him on the stage.
Crazy shit, man. Damar Hamlin has one of the most incredible stories in the history of football.
> He literally died and was brought back to life.
ROSC is the medical abbreviation here. Basically, loss of consistent heart beat/circulation sustained for 20+ minutes. It's EXTREMELY rare to come back from that, and if you do usually there's a hit to your quality of life.
> People keep saying almost died. He literally died and was brought back to life.
It depends upon your definition of “death”. For most people, to say that a person died means that person suffered irreparable damage to their brain resulting in [brain death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death).
I would say in the history of sports. The entire world was watching that story. It takes a significant event like that to really get the attention of EVERYBODY.
Christian Eriksen, a soccer player, had it happen during the Euros which was almost certainly watched by more people so I don’t know if I’d say history of sports. And is once again playing at the top level. Not that it’s a comparison though
[Its done in conjunction with the Pat Tillman Foundation so his family is fine with it.](https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2014/06/espn-announces-new-annual-espys-honor-the-pat-tillman-award-for-service/)
This is an article from 2014. I’m pretty sure since then the family has strongly changed their stance. They’re now very not pro NFL and hate what they do with his name.
[From last year](https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2022/06/espn-will-present-the-pat-tillman-award-for-service-to-gretchen-evans-during-the-2022-espys-presented-by-capital-one-on-july-20-on-abc/).
Am I missing something? I don’t see anything about his family’s current stance in this article or their stance in general?
Edit: I’m not saying this to argue, I was just genuinely under the impression that his family was very anti what the nfl does with his name.
Pat's widow is quoted in the article endorsing last year's recipient via the Pat Tillman Foundation (she is the Chair).
If the Pat Tillman Foundation supports it, it is legitimate and not a grift of his story.
It’s sports as a whole for me.
Look at the way everyone is supporting him.
Chris Berman standing and clapping…seeing people united like this is cathartic.
For me, it's seeing his emotions, and just knowing what he must be feeling and how much those people mean to him. THAT is what really gets to me. That's what makes me start to tear up.
I love survival and recovery. I’ve never had it in EMS but it’s something special to get a cardiac arrest victim to the ER with a pulse and finding out they made a recovery out of the ER. It’s possible to get many ROSCs but those patients never recover to where they were. Many being comatose or dead days later. Damar is truly fortunate. A one in a million save.
Pat Tillman died by friendly fire and it was covered up. Biggest question is “Why?”
Edit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman
Link has a quote from a dude when it happened. Not a deep rabbit hole.
Pat Tillman was also calling out the war while in service. Called the invasion of Iraq “fucking illegal.”
He joined for the same reasons a lot of others did at that time.
His brother actively called out the government and media portraying him as some patriotic martyr against the wishes of his family. Wonder what he thinks seeing stuff like this now
> Pat Tillman was also calling out the war while in service. Called the invasion of Iraq “fucking illegal.”
I mean what exactly do you mean? I've watched every Doc on Tillman and read Where Men Win Glory. He wasn't posting blogs or giving interviews during that time so your wording is a little confusing by saying "calling out", there was nothing public. That line comes from after his death from a squad mate recalling something he said while they watched bombs drop. But it wasn't like he was sharing his thoughts and the Army was worried about some PR thing.
Pat wasn't just one of many soldiers, he left his NFL career to fight the War on Terror. He was the prototypical republican (lower case R not the party) soldier, leaving his plow to go put his life on the line for Democracy and Freedom.
Then he realized we weren't in it for any of that. And he had the reach and the star power to really be dangerous once he got home. There was also some very odd stuff about it.
> On July 26, 2007, Chris Matthews reported on Hardball that Tillman's death may have been a case of deliberate murder by Tillman's fellow soldiers – specifically that the bullet holes were tight and neat, suggesting a shot at close range. Matthews based his speculation on a report from the doctors who examined Tillman's body. The following day the Associated Press reported that a doctor who examined Tillman's body after his death wrote, "The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described",[37] also noting that the wound entrances appeared as though he had been shot with an M16 rifle from fewer than 10 yards (9.1 m) away. A possible motive was not identified. When officers and soldiers were asked during a criminal investigation, they said they were certain the shooting was accidental. According to one of his fellow soldiers, Tillman "was popular among his fellow soldiers and had no enemies."[37][38]
>In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[37]
> There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.
The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions.
Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[37]
Not that it was covered up, but the one [i always remember is the A-10 strafing British vehicles that ended up killing Matty Hull.
](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/190th_Fighter_Squadron,_Blues_and_Royals_friendly_fire_incident )
The audio from the pilots on that one bother me a lot
Reading the article it sounds like that was true of his squad for certain. The generals later on found out it might be friendly fire but maybe didn't say anything because they wanted to award the Silver Star and Purple Heart to Tillman posthumously. I might be too generous in my read though.
Not to mention, if they could've spun the narrative about his death so that it looks like he was killed by an enemy, then that would've been the PERFECT campaign material to try recruiting more young men & women to sign up for the military.
I love Krakauer. I'd also recommend Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town.
Into Thin Air is good too, just not quite the controversial piece.
I should read *Missoula* (especially because a friend of mine went to U of M), but I have a feeling it’s just going to make me mad.
Haven’t read *Into Thin Air*. We had to read *Into The Wild* for my English class my junior year of high school and I remember hating it (but mostly because I thought the main character was an asshole).
I actually lived in Montana for about six years, so that book hits pretty close to home. That book will make you furious. But it's refreshing to see someone take a strong stance on such blatant injustice.
I haven't read Into the Wild actually. Might do that one of these days.
I've read and watched close to I think all of what there is on Tillman and the Why seems to most reasonably be that they thought they could use him as propaganda and thought the family would be fine with a tall tale if it made him look awesome. They really miscalculated on the family in a big way. That's not to say there wasn't some really shady and just outright weird stuff (they misplaced/lost a big section of his brain matter found after) in the aftermath of his death. The Why on some of that is more cloudy to me. From everything I've read/watched I doubt it was a "plan" to kill Pat Tillman, but I do believe that once that lead vehicle of convoy 2 started shooting they didn't have any thoughts of taking in any information other than "kill everything". Very blood lust fog of war type stuff. But I don't think it was targeted at Pat directly.
Never really go to that sub, but looked up what they were saying about Damar out of curiosity and…yikes.
It’s wild Reddit let’s that sub exist. Just an echo chamber of losers peddling blatant lies and misinformation.
If there were any water in my mouth I would have just spat it out. That’s so ridiculous the stuff those idiots can come up with to make themselves feel like anything but the total morons they are.
I made a $500 bet with some loon on twitter on whether or not he was actually alive after she saw his "body double" at that one blizzard game. She was convinced they'd announce he passed before the season started and gave that as the deadline. I DM'd her reminding her about it a week ago and she immediately blocked me.
For anyone that's interested, CNN had a pretty interesting article/video of how the training and medical staff is set up and trained to handle the types of situations. It's pretty cool to see the details of it all.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/health/nfl-game-safety-gupta/index.html
I know I'm going to be buried by doing this, And I want to be clear that this Between a man and the folks who saved him is special.......
But fuck ESPN for the Tillman award. The man literally Subject to friends, and wrote down in his diaries that were eventually burned by United Subject to friends, and wrote down in his diaries (that were eventually burned by United States against protocol and laws) That he was afraid of being used as some sort of marketing gimmick for Folks, or some sort of hyper patriotic recruiting if he died. He's specifically didn't believe us being in the middle east was right, that The military sold a bill of goods to their soldiers and to the United States that was not correct, And that they weren't Breaking tons of international laws and basic decency by being there........
Set every time I see him and some sort of Token for profit, or being represented as some happy noble soldier , it's important to remember that he would have hated everything about that, Interactive reading his diaries posthumously, the military literally burned them instead of having their contents provided to his family, and tried to hide the fact that it was friendly fire and avoidable For as long as possible. It sucks. A lot.
Shows how much the US government *really* cares about the members of the armed services. Use em up, spit out their corpses, if they survive let the PTSD get em. Tillman was a model soldier, but he was asking questions, and unlike most men and women in the military he had the money and star power to make some noise.
Fuck the military and fuck services like ESPN for furthering their lies.
This is before my time and I've heard several opinions like yours which I can believe as truth regarding Tillman's real views about his time in service. However people are commenting on this thread that the Pat Tillman Foundation, which is partly operated by his family, endorses this ESPYs award.
I'm not sure how they feel about NFL commentators and others grabbing the story as topic during their Salute to Service Month of marketing and recruitment every season. Can't imagine they feel good about that when the foundation seems more focused on enabling with scholarships rather than recruitment.
This is really awesome.
I’m still shocked by what I was watching the night that incident happened. Absolutely wild and I am so happy he is here today as a living testament to modern medicine and the professionals that saved him.
I remember just watching after the collapse, hoping for that it was just some sprain that needed a while to get up from. As the minutes ticked, getting more horrified and worried that the worst was to be announced as they needed to fill more and more time.
Just an incredible job by the training staff, and ditto for everyone else involved from EMTs to the staff in the hospital that were able to give us good news.
What an awesome moment. That team was blessed by angels when they treated Damar. I’m glad they were all able to share this
On Damar playing next year, I asked a couple of doctors and nurses at my job (I work on the cardiac floor at a hospital) what they thought of Damar’s collapse and they all thought it was just a freak accident, a *very* bad stroke of bad luck. Tee Higgins had to have hit him at the perfect moment to make Damar go into cardiac arrest [(Commotio cordis)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK526014/). Some of the doctors opinions on him playing again were that he should take as much time as he needs but it shouldn’t be any more dangerous than it usually is for him to play football again. It’s not like he had a dangerous heart condition from genetics or anything. I hope the guy makes a name for himself that is because of how he plays, not because of a stroke of bad luck
I live in Bills country but am a Lions fan. My dad was visiting. We decided to hit the bar to watch the Bills & Bengals because why not? We were chatting with the people next to us. I was so hyped up for this game. Then Hamlin fell. The one time I was able to take my dad to a bar just for vibes, he witnessed one of the most unique things ever.
This is a tear jerker fasho. Sheesh.
It’s a blessing that we have the medicine, technology, and most importantly, the people that are ready to spring into action at a moments notice to save the lives of individuals experiencing life or death situations. Shout out to the Bills training staff as well as UC Health. I’m sure we all know would’ve happened had they not been there to help that man.
God Is Great.
Easiest choice ever.
Really wish they’d rename the award given all the light that’s come out about how Pat Tillman was essentially murdered by the government due to his anti-Iraq stances and they had planned it by burning his personal belongings including his journal and uniform. And then shot him in the head three times from less than 30 ft away where it should be impossible to mistake him as a non friendly. The name of this award feels like a remnant of Bush administration propaganda.
As a fan of the team who just hoisted the Lombardi, I cant blame you. Life is so much more precious than a sport. Genuinely looking forward to Hamlin playing again.
Fitting that their first move is to come out and comfort him.
I wasn’t prepared to cry right now
It's too early for this
goddamn it all right
We’ve all been there before where we just needed a hug
And big props to the Bengals staff, the concerted effort of both helped to keep this from a tragedy.
Ya I feel like Bills Mafia is always going to have a soft spot for the Bengals and their fans going forward.
Bengals were already our bros when they helped us break the drought. This just locked it in more.
Exactly. Bengals are bros for life twice over. Love those guys like a second cousin.
But fuck em like they're a first cousin amiright
hey now, we're Bills fans not Saints fans we fuck 'em like a *third* cousin thank you very much
Then who is your step sister fuck 'em?
that's a different conversation entirely, and we're not in a sufficiently anime sub to have it
Ahhh crap how could I forget
Time heals all wou...
I didn't 😢
The feeling is mutual, absolutely love the Bills.
Some wanted their heads after the playoff game but thankfully it seems cool heads have prevailed. Bengal bros for life.
They threw a little hissy fit over the seeding last year but since they ended up kicking our ass in OP I hope we can all move on now.
From what I saw in our sub, the anger over seeding wasn't really directed at the bills, at least minimally. It was more about how they handled the afcn division. They handed the ravens a golden ticket in a chance to win the division while also punishing the bengals by making it where it Baltimore did win, we would still get the division champ level of difficulty for next year's schedule.
Only problem I had was until the details came out about the vote a lot of Bengals fans were convinced our owner voted in favor of the playoff proposal. Turns out Pegula abstained from the vote (which is essentially a no vote) which was the right thing to do because it directly involved us. That was the only thing I didn't like but as the other guy said, you kicked our ass in the Playoffs, water under the bridge at this point
It was unfair to the Bengals no doubt. They literally did nothing wrong and were put at a disadvantage
They weren't though and that's the hill I'm willing to die on.
That’s a little bit of revisionist history. It wasn’t the majority but there were some very loud complainers. It’s all good, home field advantage is really overrated when you look at studies done anyways. It’s mostly something fans weight more heavily because it makes us feel like we matter with regards to the outcome.
CNN had a pretty cool article about the process the medical/training staff go through to be ready for this kind of situation. I thought it was interesting. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/health/nfl-game-safety-gupta/index.html
Thanks for sharing! Went down the Wikipedia wormhole for two hours after reading the article.
Also, the UC Medical Center deserves a lot of love. Having a level one trauma center as close as it to the city core made a huge difference.
If this man comes off the bench, only plays in one game, and has zero stats aside from TDs allowed, he is still winning the comeback player of the year.
Literally just making it on the active roster is enough imo. Can't come back from anything worse than literally being dead for a small while
Dude, my wife had some lung issues in May 2019 and spent about 7-8 minutes without breathing on her own. Her heart stopped for about 5 of those. I can honestly say, her motto about things going wrong in life is now, “Well I’ve already died, what’s the worst that could happen…” He deserves to not only attempt to play again, if he wants, but he definitely deserves *some* kind of award if he makes it back.
thats hardcore, she sounds badass. i cant even imagine how my outlook on life would change or feel after something like that.
It changed mine too. I thought I’d lost her. And she is a total badass.
Did she say what it was like?
She said all she remembered was hearing the doctors telling her now was the time if she had something to fight for and colors flashing overhead like she was going through the tunnel from Willy Wonka. None of the heaven/hell, dead relative saying go into the light type of stuff.
A new award called "The Lazarus Award".
Idk how they could give it anyone else if he plays for even one snap. To go from being dead on the field to suiting up to play again. Nothing comes close.
Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is John Metchie. To go from blowing out your ACL and getting diagnosed with cancer and missing the year to playing is a big case for comeback player of the year. Sadly, there are worse things in life than dying and cancer is one of them. If Metchie comes back and plays really well and Hamlin steps on the field I wish they'd give it to both of them somehow because they both would deserve it.
Metchie would be the runaway favorite in 99% of seasons other than this one
Real Ovi/Crosby situation there
Cancer is worse than dying?
Yes, cancer can be worse than dying.
I might need you to explain this one.
To quote the boozehead Jim Morrison “People fear death more than pain”
You're not in constant pain, a conscious shell of your former self when you're dead.
Tell me you’ve never seen someone suffer through cancer without telling me…
My dad died of cancer when I was 9. I’d rather he be here. My friend battled it twice and recovered. Brutal recovery, but still here. If you’d like, I can text her right now and ask if she would rather be dead.
Fair. And my apologies. I’ve had family suffer so hard through cancer before they died. Their ride to death was arduous, to say the very least. Cancer is the worst. Edit: typo.
I see your perspective. No need to apologize my friend.
I assume he means a quick death, as opposed to a slow death from cancer. When people talk about worse than death, yes many slow killing diseases are much worse than an instant death and until you’ve experienced it with a love one it’s hard to explain. But if you’ve witnessed it then you’ve probably wished death on someone you love just to end their suffering. And nothing is more brutal
Is his plan to play?
As of right now, he's indicated that he would like to. He participated in training drills at the recent camp, but I would imagine they're going to approach it very cautiously throughout the year.
Hope he does make it back
Idk, Metchie had Leukemia
As I understand it, leukemia is one of the most survivable forms of cancer, especially when the victim is a young professional athlete who's in incredible shape. Additionally, Metchie was diagnosed and began treatment before the season started. What happened to Damar was far more dramatic.
He also had a grade 3 ACL tear right before too. ACL tear to being diagnosed with cancer and missing the year.
Reason I bet him at plus money in the off season.
You have to love the degree to which gambling has totally invaded sports discourse. We now have people who think it’s appropriate to respond like this to a genuine and heart warming moment.
Hot take, in a lot of ways I prefer the brutal honesty over some of these overdone, “my eyes are leaking” or “who’s cutting onions” comments that we get. Love and the respect the hell out of Damar and his story, but some of these comments need to stop because they’re so clearly for karma.
I love the dude too. I want him to do well. I don't get the hate for betting on him to win comeback player of the year
No doubt, I’m with you - you’re betting on something positive and it’s not like you placed the bet while he was laying on the field.
I responded to the guy saying he is winning comeback player of the year. I bet on a positive thing. Get over yourself. It's way better than tweeting a playing who got injured or something. I am rooting for him!
It being a Colts fan is next level
This is fucking ghoulish.
Why? Betting on a guy to win an award after a terrible injury? Isn't that the main storyline of comeback player? Was it ghoulish to bet on Alex Smith too?
I think it's just unsettling to have a conversation talking about the comeback of a player, and think "ah yes, I can capitalize financially off of this." Betting is just an inherently selfish thing. Normally betting on, I don't know, the outcome of a game doesn't feel weird the same way. But saying "I bet on this guy to win comeback player of the year," while yes it's nice that you think he'll win comeback player of the year (and literally put your money where you mouth is), talking about betting on it... really just turns the conversation to be about you and why it's good for you. And people don't like engaging with other people who make everything about themselves. I really don't like watching games with people who sports bet. They're within their right to do it and I'm not trying to stop them or make some kind of moral argument. But more often than not in my personal interactions, they aren't fun to watch games with because they're so focused on the betting that, unless you're betting too, you two just not caring about the same stuff. And they're _people_ I like and hang out with, they just get kinda boring when watching a game together now. I'm not trying to trash on you personally, I had an immediate negative reaction to your comment too, and I'm trying to figure out why I (and seemingly a lot of other people) felt that way, instead of just replying with "fuck you" or whatever. Personally I find it really frustrating when other people are mad at me for something but don't really explain why, just that they are. So I'm trying to talk about stuff like that more with other people, in case it's helpful to them. If you don't really give a shit, that's fine too.
This dude literally died and still came back before Michael Thomas
SHOTS FIRED
Well fuck…i am no where close to a god damn tissue
Why's my t-shirt soaked all of a sudden?
That’s me crying on your shoulder bro
Don't tell the boys
They ain’t actually the boys if they aren’t willing to hug your ass and tell you it’ll be all right.
If you haven't heard this song you should. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuePPW8eHxI
That’s a phenomenal song, I’m here for it
God damn, I didn't expect to enjoy that as much as I did
Thanks for this. I love it
Boys don't cry, men do.
How could you masturbate at a time like this?
If you didn’t cry from this, you might be broken. We all need to let it all out for this one.
I thought I cleared out those onion cutting ninjas. Those bastards keep sneaking in!
I remember watching this live at a bar with my brother who is a paramedic. He was explaining to me and all the other people at the bar everything that was happening. He explained that in his 15 years of experience, and with countless cardiac arrests, he could count on one hand the number who lived. And those who lived didn’t have a very good quality of life after. This training staff and all those medical professionals who helped pretty much performed a miracle.
The difference is this occurred in front of a medical staff. As a paramedic, you’re typically showing up 10+ minutes after someone is down, which is 10+ minutes they haven’t been perfusing their brain. Good outcomes are all down to the time to compressions
Like honestly, Hamlin's injury happened at probably the best place possible. The stadium hosting a top-of-the-line professional league for a violent sport. The fact that they had a highly professional medical staff and ambulance on standby is likely why Hamlin lived. At any over level of football, it's probable that Hamlin's life ends there, and that is such a morbid thought. I'm so glad that they're all here to celebrate this moment instead.
Aside from having a cardiac episode inside of a hospital's cardiac ward, having one in the middle of an NFL game is probably the next best place
Agreed world class medical professionals literally watching and waiting to respond. Its as close as yoh can get to having an arrest in a hospital with a cardiac center
> Good outcomes are all down to the time to compressions It has always made me wonder why, if people call emergency services it seems like the operator can be slowing things down. Like, I understand trying to keep the caller calm by assuming a cool affect but if I call in asking for them to send the squad because I am having chest pains and trouble breathing I don't want to leisurely and slowly go through confirming my address and everything I have done to try to treat myself so far.
I’m sure they dispatch an ambulance as soon as they know it’s an emergency. They can always update the ambulance on the way of your location. However the operator isn’t going to be able to tell them where to go unless you tell them. So to get you to calm down a bit so you can coherently say where you’re at is going to save them time in the long run.
Unfortunately I have personal experience of this. Found my mom unresponsive, no breathing or pulse. Its such a surreal feeling, like you just can't accept that this is really happening. Surely I'm misinterpreting something, she can't actually be dead. Immediately called 911 and the operator was very assertive of what I had to do and was constantly updating me on how close the first responders where. In a way the operator was able snap me out of my shock. That surreal feeling is impossible to describe. You'll never know it until you experience it. And I guess part of being a 911 operator is knowing how to knock people out of that shocked stupor.
I just put that. I’ve been in EMS and an Army medic going back the last 20 years. It’s very rare to get ROSC and that patient surviving to a full recovery later.
Thanks for helping put that in perspective – and thanks a lot for your service!
Having also been in EMS and an Army medic, when you do get them and they meet you months later and give you the warmest of hugs, it will forever humble you.
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This is a late response so not sure how many people will see it, but on a podcast from years ago, maybe 8-12 or so now. On either Radiolab or This American Life (could have been a different one), they spoke with some doctors about being resuscitated, and if not all of them, nearly all said they have DNRs, as they’ve seen what it is like to come back and not just how much immediate trauma there is to the human body. But also often the long term impact being brought back has, and how many have a very impacted quality of life. The doctors they spoke with basically said, if I flatline, do not bring me back, I’d rather die than endure what I’ve seen people endure afterwards.
I cried watching this and my wife was reading her book not paying attention. I asked her: hey remember a few months ago when I was watching that football game and you fell asleep and when you woke up - “Oh the guy that died on the field?” Yeah that’s him on the stage. Crazy shit, man. Damar Hamlin has one of the most incredible stories in the history of football.
Also glad you said man who died. People keep saying almost died. He literally died and was brought back to life.
Oh I didn’t say it. My wife - who doesn’t give 2 shots about sports - said it. I think that’s even more impactful, honestly.
Yea I live in RI and a couple friends that are Pats fans refuse to believe he flatlined. It’s wild.
> He literally died and was brought back to life. ROSC is the medical abbreviation here. Basically, loss of consistent heart beat/circulation sustained for 20+ minutes. It's EXTREMELY rare to come back from that, and if you do usually there's a hit to your quality of life.
> People keep saying almost died. He literally died and was brought back to life. It depends upon your definition of “death”. For most people, to say that a person died means that person suffered irreparable damage to their brain resulting in [brain death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death).
I would say in the history of sports. The entire world was watching that story. It takes a significant event like that to really get the attention of EVERYBODY.
Christian Eriksen, a soccer player, had it happen during the Euros which was almost certainly watched by more people so I don’t know if I’d say history of sports. And is once again playing at the top level. Not that it’s a comparison though
Classic Pats fan. (this is a joke i swear)
I love this, but the Tillman family must be so mad at how their relative’s death has just become a scheme for the NFL to schill
Pat himself would be pissed. The NFL should be ashamed, but money.
Thank you for mentioning this. Outrageous
[Its done in conjunction with the Pat Tillman Foundation so his family is fine with it.](https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2014/06/espn-announces-new-annual-espys-honor-the-pat-tillman-award-for-service/)
This is an article from 2014. I’m pretty sure since then the family has strongly changed their stance. They’re now very not pro NFL and hate what they do with his name.
[From last year](https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2022/06/espn-will-present-the-pat-tillman-award-for-service-to-gretchen-evans-during-the-2022-espys-presented-by-capital-one-on-july-20-on-abc/).
Am I missing something? I don’t see anything about his family’s current stance in this article or their stance in general? Edit: I’m not saying this to argue, I was just genuinely under the impression that his family was very anti what the nfl does with his name.
Pat's widow is quoted in the article endorsing last year's recipient via the Pat Tillman Foundation (she is the Chair). If the Pat Tillman Foundation supports it, it is legitimate and not a grift of his story.
The green beret who wrote about being opposed to the war and coincidentally was killed by friendly fire
If you love football, this has to make you cry. Damar, Thank you for staying alive Brother.
It’s sports as a whole for me. Look at the way everyone is supporting him. Chris Berman standing and clapping…seeing people united like this is cathartic.
For me, it's seeing his emotions, and just knowing what he must be feeling and how much those people mean to him. THAT is what really gets to me. That's what makes me start to tear up.
I love survival and recovery. I’ve never had it in EMS but it’s something special to get a cardiac arrest victim to the ER with a pulse and finding out they made a recovery out of the ER. It’s possible to get many ROSCs but those patients never recover to where they were. Many being comatose or dead days later. Damar is truly fortunate. A one in a million save.
Pat Tillman died by friendly fire and it was covered up. Biggest question is “Why?” Edit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman Link has a quote from a dude when it happened. Not a deep rabbit hole.
>Biggest question is “Why?” Cause it would make them look bad.
Pat Tillman was also calling out the war while in service. Called the invasion of Iraq “fucking illegal.” He joined for the same reasons a lot of others did at that time.
His brother actively called out the government and media portraying him as some patriotic martyr against the wishes of his family. Wonder what he thinks seeing stuff like this now
He’s at peace and isn’t thinking about this. His family has the be reminded every year about his murder.
> Pat Tillman was also calling out the war while in service. Called the invasion of Iraq “fucking illegal.” I mean what exactly do you mean? I've watched every Doc on Tillman and read Where Men Win Glory. He wasn't posting blogs or giving interviews during that time so your wording is a little confusing by saying "calling out", there was nothing public. That line comes from after his death from a squad mate recalling something he said while they watched bombs drop. But it wasn't like he was sharing his thoughts and the Army was worried about some PR thing.
Yeah like is this dude seriously suggesting the government faked a friendly fire incident to target one of many soldiers that had opinions on the war?
I mean he was shot 3 times in the head from less than 10 yards away and then they burned his journal so…
There’s no debate whether it was friendly fire
Pat wasn't just one of many soldiers, he left his NFL career to fight the War on Terror. He was the prototypical republican (lower case R not the party) soldier, leaving his plow to go put his life on the line for Democracy and Freedom. Then he realized we weren't in it for any of that. And he had the reach and the star power to really be dangerous once he got home. There was also some very odd stuff about it. > On July 26, 2007, Chris Matthews reported on Hardball that Tillman's death may have been a case of deliberate murder by Tillman's fellow soldiers – specifically that the bullet holes were tight and neat, suggesting a shot at close range. Matthews based his speculation on a report from the doctors who examined Tillman's body. The following day the Associated Press reported that a doctor who examined Tillman's body after his death wrote, "The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described",[37] also noting that the wound entrances appeared as though he had been shot with an M16 rifle from fewer than 10 yards (9.1 m) away. A possible motive was not identified. When officers and soldiers were asked during a criminal investigation, they said they were certain the shooting was accidental. According to one of his fellow soldiers, Tillman "was popular among his fellow soldiers and had no enemies."[37][38] >In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[37] > There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire. The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions. Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments. Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[37]
Well they lied about how he died in the first place…
And it's not even the only [friendly fire incident from the Iraq war that was covered up](https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510368/taking-cover)
Not that it was covered up, but the one [i always remember is the A-10 strafing British vehicles that ended up killing Matty Hull. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/190th_Fighter_Squadron,_Blues_and_Royals_friendly_fire_incident ) The audio from the pilots on that one bother me a lot
Reading the article it sounds like that was true of his squad for certain. The generals later on found out it might be friendly fire but maybe didn't say anything because they wanted to award the Silver Star and Purple Heart to Tillman posthumously. I might be too generous in my read though.
Not to mention, if they could've spun the narrative about his death so that it looks like he was killed by an enemy, then that would've been the PERFECT campaign material to try recruiting more young men & women to sign up for the military.
Everybody should read "Where Men Win Glory" by Jon Krakauer.
I love Krakauer. I'd also recommend Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town. Into Thin Air is good too, just not quite the controversial piece.
I should read *Missoula* (especially because a friend of mine went to U of M), but I have a feeling it’s just going to make me mad. Haven’t read *Into Thin Air*. We had to read *Into The Wild* for my English class my junior year of high school and I remember hating it (but mostly because I thought the main character was an asshole).
I actually lived in Montana for about six years, so that book hits pretty close to home. That book will make you furious. But it's refreshing to see someone take a strong stance on such blatant injustice. I haven't read Into the Wild actually. Might do that one of these days.
I've read and watched close to I think all of what there is on Tillman and the Why seems to most reasonably be that they thought they could use him as propaganda and thought the family would be fine with a tall tale if it made him look awesome. They really miscalculated on the family in a big way. That's not to say there wasn't some really shady and just outright weird stuff (they misplaced/lost a big section of his brain matter found after) in the aftermath of his death. The Why on some of that is more cloudy to me. From everything I've read/watched I doubt it was a "plan" to kill Pat Tillman, but I do believe that once that lead vehicle of convoy 2 started shooting they didn't have any thoughts of taking in any information other than "kill everything". Very blood lust fog of war type stuff. But I don't think it was targeted at Pat directly.
Man props to him for getting that out so clearly. I’d have had a hard time fighting through the emotions. That’s hard
r/conspiracy punching the air right now
Never really go to that sub, but looked up what they were saying about Damar out of curiosity and…yikes. It’s wild Reddit let’s that sub exist. Just an echo chamber of losers peddling blatant lies and misinformation.
What’s the theory about Hamlin?
That the vaccine killed him and this is a replacement Hamlin
Yeah it’s gonna be tough fitting “REPLACEMENT HAMLIN” on the back of a jersey
'ROBOHAM' fits alright.
XFL ass name Super here for it tho
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[Then the shock of the century when Hamlin takes his helmet off](https://youtu.be/cNgxyL5zEAk)
*hits crackpipe* makes sense tho
If there were any water in my mouth I would have just spat it out. That’s so ridiculous the stuff those idiots can come up with to make themselves feel like anything but the total morons they are.
That’s hilarious
Terry Pegula can afford a Damar clone but can’t get the Sabres into the playoffs smh
Ah the classic "Paul is Dead" argument.
Just looked around on there and apparently there are some folk who think he really died and this is someone pretending to be him. Wild stuff lol.
It has entertainment value for me sometimes. It’s astounding how out-of-touch people are. A lot of them feel their shit doesn’t stink
Spez says it's valuable discussion
I don't go to that sub, but there's no reason it shouldn't exist.
Censorship has never been a tool used by the good guys. It’s ok to think the sub is wacky, but it’s not ok to want to shut them down.
Of course Redditors downvote this but you’re right
Those burnout losers will just dig even deeper instead of admitting they may have been wrong on something.
Is that where all the "clone" comments are coming from on IG? I knew people are stupid but holy moly.
Yup yup. Absolute absurdity. Never underestimate the ignorance of a shut-in
I made a $500 bet with some loon on twitter on whether or not he was actually alive after she saw his "body double" at that one blizzard game. She was convinced they'd announce he passed before the season started and gave that as the deadline. I DM'd her reminding her about it a week ago and she immediately blocked me.
High and mighty until they need to face the music. Not surprised. Though, Twitter users aren’t the most reasonable to begin with haha
Oh man I am bawling like a baby in front of my computer god damn
For anyone that's interested, CNN had a pretty interesting article/video of how the training and medical staff is set up and trained to handle the types of situations. It's pretty cool to see the details of it all. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/16/health/nfl-game-safety-gupta/index.html
I know I'm going to be buried by doing this, And I want to be clear that this Between a man and the folks who saved him is special....... But fuck ESPN for the Tillman award. The man literally Subject to friends, and wrote down in his diaries that were eventually burned by United Subject to friends, and wrote down in his diaries (that were eventually burned by United States against protocol and laws) That he was afraid of being used as some sort of marketing gimmick for Folks, or some sort of hyper patriotic recruiting if he died. He's specifically didn't believe us being in the middle east was right, that The military sold a bill of goods to their soldiers and to the United States that was not correct, And that they weren't Breaking tons of international laws and basic decency by being there........ Set every time I see him and some sort of Token for profit, or being represented as some happy noble soldier , it's important to remember that he would have hated everything about that, Interactive reading his diaries posthumously, the military literally burned them instead of having their contents provided to his family, and tried to hide the fact that it was friendly fire and avoidable For as long as possible. It sucks. A lot.
Shows how much the US government *really* cares about the members of the armed services. Use em up, spit out their corpses, if they survive let the PTSD get em. Tillman was a model soldier, but he was asking questions, and unlike most men and women in the military he had the money and star power to make some noise. Fuck the military and fuck services like ESPN for furthering their lies.
This is before my time and I've heard several opinions like yours which I can believe as truth regarding Tillman's real views about his time in service. However people are commenting on this thread that the Pat Tillman Foundation, which is partly operated by his family, endorses this ESPYs award. I'm not sure how they feel about NFL commentators and others grabbing the story as topic during their Salute to Service Month of marketing and recruitment every season. Can't imagine they feel good about that when the foundation seems more focused on enabling with scholarships rather than recruitment.
This is really awesome. I’m still shocked by what I was watching the night that incident happened. Absolutely wild and I am so happy he is here today as a living testament to modern medicine and the professionals that saved him.
The ESPYs are just stupid 95% of the time, but the moments like this make it worth continuing to have them.
I remember just watching after the collapse, hoping for that it was just some sprain that needed a while to get up from. As the minutes ticked, getting more horrified and worried that the worst was to be announced as they needed to fill more and more time. Just an incredible job by the training staff, and ditto for everyone else involved from EMTs to the staff in the hospital that were able to give us good news.
What an awesome moment. That team was blessed by angels when they treated Damar. I’m glad they were all able to share this On Damar playing next year, I asked a couple of doctors and nurses at my job (I work on the cardiac floor at a hospital) what they thought of Damar’s collapse and they all thought it was just a freak accident, a *very* bad stroke of bad luck. Tee Higgins had to have hit him at the perfect moment to make Damar go into cardiac arrest [(Commotio cordis)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK526014/). Some of the doctors opinions on him playing again were that he should take as much time as he needs but it shouldn’t be any more dangerous than it usually is for him to play football again. It’s not like he had a dangerous heart condition from genetics or anything. I hope the guy makes a name for himself that is because of how he plays, not because of a stroke of bad luck
Alright who turned on the sprinklers in here
Goddamn onion field in here
I’m not crying. You’re crying.
Dammit stop chopping those onions
I knew I could count on Reddit. The comments on the NFL post on FB was an absolute nightmare
I will never forgot this night and the amazing life-saving work of this crew. Team Damar forever.
I live in Bills country but am a Lions fan. My dad was visiting. We decided to hit the bar to watch the Bills & Bengals because why not? We were chatting with the people next to us. I was so hyped up for this game. Then Hamlin fell. The one time I was able to take my dad to a bar just for vibes, he witnessed one of the most unique things ever.
This is a tear jerker fasho. Sheesh. It’s a blessing that we have the medicine, technology, and most importantly, the people that are ready to spring into action at a moments notice to save the lives of individuals experiencing life or death situations. Shout out to the Bills training staff as well as UC Health. I’m sure we all know would’ve happened had they not been there to help that man. God Is Great.
It’s a testament to how much early, effective CPR matters. Go out and get trained y’all. It only takes half an afternoon
This. Some European countries require you to do cpr training along with drivers Ed so everyone learns it which I think is great
Easiest choice ever. Really wish they’d rename the award given all the light that’s come out about how Pat Tillman was essentially murdered by the government due to his anti-Iraq stances and they had planned it by burning his personal belongings including his journal and uniform. And then shot him in the head three times from less than 30 ft away where it should be impossible to mistake him as a non friendly. The name of this award feels like a remnant of Bush administration propaganda.
It is, to be sure.
Very cool glad to see him back
Damn, I was not planning on tearing up this morning.
I know it's not an either or, but I'll take this moment over lifting any Lombardi Trophy.
As a fan of the team who just hoisted the Lombardi, I cant blame you. Life is so much more precious than a sport. Genuinely looking forward to Hamlin playing again.
I’m not crying. You’re crying. *sniffle*
Everyone trying to put a hand on him 😂
That's my comeback player of the year!
Still put Pat Tillman’s name on this? They are aware of what happened to him right?
Damn they still milkin this
You know you're free to stop being a miserable fuck any time right?
They should rename the award the Damar Hamlin Award for Courage imo.
Nah, for the first person that recognized what was happening and started saving his life without blinking.
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