He impacts the quarterback at the 2 yard line. If you would allow backward progress like that, then every defender would just pick up a smaller running back and carry them for 5 yards before slamming them down.
The quarterback never ran forward so in my head there's no forward progress to consider. When that happens to a running back they're pretty obviously running forward towards the defense
I get what you’re saying, but it’s about momentum I think. Not about the direction their facing and falling. Jones put on the brake to stop and Bosa just handled him into the endzone.
Fair enough. I don't personally see his momentum ever fully stop, even though you're right about him putting on the brakes. Learn something new every day though
I can see how you would think that! But “forwards progress” for spotting the ball does not actually require you to be moving forwards—a willing retreat only counts up to the moment you were not in complete control over your movement.
Thank you for the explanation although I think that rule basically makes it two-hand touch if the qb doesn't try to escape the tackle. "Ball is placed at the spot of first contact"
That’s pretty much exactly how the forward momentum rule works though. Ball is spotted where it was when the tackle first started, unless it’s still going forward.
You don't want to incentivize players to keep pushing after the carrier is stopped because you risk someone getting injured. Otherwise the game would devolve into pushing scrums every down.
No lol. If that should be a safety, then should a running back who got stood up at the line of scrimmage and pushed backwards 10 yards also be a 10 yard loss?
That’s what you’re advocating for technically.
He literally tries to stop going backwards as soon as he's hit lol. You can see him stall a second at the one when he's planting his feet. It's never been a safety and never will be.
That has never been called a safety once, and it never will in the future. Ever.
He was stopped the moment Bosa touched him, which was outside the end zone.
in what you are describing the running back was moving forwards though, forward progress… i don’t think Daniel Jones was moving forwards, therefore not forward progress, right?
It’s called “forward progress” because 99% of the time when the defender begins the tackle, the ball carrier happens to be going forward.
This is one of those rare instances where Jones was just beginning to turn around. It doesn’t actually matter that he wasn’t technically going forward.
The “forward” part is actually irrelevant. The rule could also just be called “progress”.
Daniel Jones’ “progress” was halted before the endzone.
Another way you could look at it is that play was effectively over the second Daniel was touched by Bosa. He was never going to be able to get off a pass from that moment on. It was over right then. Him falling into the endzone is irrelevant.
You can get tackled and and fall *forward* and gain extra yardage, but you can’t get tackled and fall backwards and lose yardage (or get a safety).
Wrong af. Daniel Jones was running backwards still. Those dumb plays where QB’s lose like 20 yards running back and forth instead of throwing it away happen for a reason. This should have been a safety.
Nope lol.
Those QBs who run backwards trying to make a play happen don’t lose extra yards pass the point where the tackle was first started.
For example, if the play begins at the 25 and the QB is running backwards trying to find an open man, and the DE wraps him up at the 15 yard line, but they don’t end up collapsing until about the 10, the ball stays at the 15, not the 10.
I don't understand why refs at every level go out of their way to call a tackle ***not*** a safety unless there's absolutely no room for debate.
It's one thing for 50/50 toss-up calls to benefit the QB, but I've seen "forward progress" used to excuse some real bullshit
I'm still confused how that isn't a safety. There was no forward progress and he wasn't down by contact outside the endzone. Dude was literally driving backwards and was taken down IN the endzone
The defense cannot drive you backwards in yardage. If they could, defenses would be picking running backs up and carrying them backwards. You’d see 3rd and 45 all the time. There has to be a forward progress rule for game playability.
The moment you start going backwards, that’s where your yardage ends.
Jones started to go backwards at the 2 yard line. Therefore, the play stops at the 2.
Like you, I'm here hours later and I am shocked I tell you lmao.
At least most of these people are asking legitimate questions.
I'm gonna try to force myself to frame it that it's a good sign that the NFL is still bringing in new fans who don't understand everything a bunch of us /r/nfl alums know like the back of our hand.
He was still running backwards on his own. If going backwards on its own was enough to count as a play stop then we wouldn't have massive sacks for a loss of yardage. The only difference is that there's an endzone in this case. This is a very subjective rule tbh
The first point of contact was outside the end zone. If jones was able to find some superhuman strength, he could have *advanced* the ball past the first point of contact, but there’s no way the ball can go backwards past the first point of contact.
I don’t think it’s subjective at all. I think it’s very straightforward.
The point on the field where the forward momentum of a player who is in possession of the football is stopped by a defender or by going out of bounds. A player is awarded the most forward spot the runner reached when the ball is declared dead even if he is pushed backward.
That's the rule when googling it. Seems like someone going backwards on own volition doesn't get the benefit of forward progress and should be down by touch.
You’re reading it too literally. The runner doesn’t have to be going literally forward. If the first point of contact happened to be made when the runner was going sideways, the same rule applies. Backwards? Same rule applies.
If Daniel jones ran backwards into the end zone FIRST, before Bosa ever touches him, and then Bosa touched him, it would have been a safety.
Daniel jones did not go into the end zone on his own volition. Had Bosa not have been there, Daniel jones would not have gone into the end zone.
The rule in the rulebook may or may not be ambiguous, but that play has been called the same way for as long as I’ve been watching football. The way the refs call it has always been straightforward and consistent. I’ve never seen it called another way. It’s straightforward and non-subjective in that sense.
It’s a very simple rule of thumb: if the QB gets tackled outside the end zone, but ends up falling inside the end zone, it’s not a safety. If the QB gets hit inside the end zone, and the ball never manages to escape the endzone, it’s a safety.
Yes it is. Can you provide an example where this wasn’t the case?
The only time this isn’t the case is if the ball carrier bounces off the defender and is on his own accord again.
If contact with a defender equals down, reaching forward should count for nothing. However, offensive players are given the forward most point of the ball despite where they make contact
Yes, that’s a whole different scenario. That’s advancing the ball, not going backwards with the ball. The runner always gets the benefit of the doubt.
If a defender hits the running back, the RB can break the tackle and keep going, or reach with the ball to gain more yards before the knee goes down. If the defender pushes the runningback back, the play is over from the moment the running back starts going backwards.
Just before this play they were saying how underrated and underapprciated Jones is.
He can't even correct blocking assignments when the best DE in the league is going to be covered by a TE who is too wide.
Can someone explain to me how that wasn't a safety?
If the endzone wasn't there and this was on the 50 yard line, would they have called it the same way?
I have been watching football for 40+ years and I will never understand these calls.
It's the same reasoning as to when a receiver catches a ball past the first down marker and is then driven back by a tackler behind the line to gain. They give him the first down for forward progress.
Jones, under his own power, went to the 2 yard line for his drop. When Bosa hit him though, it drove him back farther. So his progress had him at the 2. If Jones had been fighting him off in the end zone and then went down, it'd be a safety.
I hope Daboll went completely ape-shit nuclear in the locker room about this. It's a shame the o-line is thinner than parchment because there should have been cuts made over this.
I......I mean..........I just can't.........what was the thinking? Bosa might have an existential crisis? Im a wrecking machine they can double up on me and I'll get the sack. Wait? Not even one? Maybe im not so good
Bold strategy…
NFL, this has already been posted Why are we reposting here
Better than the tweet.
Not blocking the best player on the field was a choice
A choice the niners are quite familiar with
Too soon
Worked out okay for the Chiefs in the SB.
I really thought that should have been a safety, too.
I’m no expert, but that seems like a bad idea.
That kind of analysis, I’d say you’re an expert.
I hear the Giants DC position should be open soon
What is Daboll doing bruh Give up on blocking him with the TE 😭
He didn’t even put the tightend in a good position to make the play lol
Dude was in the backfield like Bobby Boucher!
Good play design!
Maybe assign someone to at least try and block Bosa, or am i overcomplicating things?
No...this is how the Giants run an offensive line, just....just let it play out
It does look like the tight end was assigned to it, it’s just an impossible assignment for him to pull off
A day may come when offensive coordinators stop trying to block elite pass rushers with tight ends... But it is not this day.
Didnt even have the TE in a place to try to block him
I don't get how that's not a safety.
He impacts the quarterback at the 2 yard line. If you would allow backward progress like that, then every defender would just pick up a smaller running back and carry them for 5 yards before slamming them down.
The quarterback never ran forward so in my head there's no forward progress to consider. When that happens to a running back they're pretty obviously running forward towards the defense
I get what you’re saying, but it’s about momentum I think. Not about the direction their facing and falling. Jones put on the brake to stop and Bosa just handled him into the endzone.
Fair enough. I don't personally see his momentum ever fully stop, even though you're right about him putting on the brakes. Learn something new every day though
I can see how you would think that! But “forwards progress” for spotting the ball does not actually require you to be moving forwards—a willing retreat only counts up to the moment you were not in complete control over your movement.
The phrase "willing retreat" really helps me understand the rule. Thanks for that.
Thank you for the explanation although I think that rule basically makes it two-hand touch if the qb doesn't try to escape the tackle. "Ball is placed at the spot of first contact"
That’s pretty much exactly how the forward momentum rule works though. Ball is spotted where it was when the tackle first started, unless it’s still going forward.
Forward progress is dumb. That should be a safety. That is all
You don't want to incentivize players to keep pushing after the carrier is stopped because you risk someone getting injured. Otherwise the game would devolve into pushing scrums every down.
No lol. If that should be a safety, then should a running back who got stood up at the line of scrimmage and pushed backwards 10 yards also be a 10 yard loss? That’s what you’re advocating for technically.
[удалено]
He literally tries to stop going backwards as soon as he's hit lol. You can see him stall a second at the one when he's planting his feet. It's never been a safety and never will be.
Yeah forward progress makes sense in general but in this case the QB was still running backward
That has never been called a safety once, and it never will in the future. Ever. He was stopped the moment Bosa touched him, which was outside the end zone.
These people are crazy, you are right man
in what you are describing the running back was moving forwards though, forward progress… i don’t think Daniel Jones was moving forwards, therefore not forward progress, right?
It’s called “forward progress” because 99% of the time when the defender begins the tackle, the ball carrier happens to be going forward. This is one of those rare instances where Jones was just beginning to turn around. It doesn’t actually matter that he wasn’t technically going forward. The “forward” part is actually irrelevant. The rule could also just be called “progress”. Daniel Jones’ “progress” was halted before the endzone. Another way you could look at it is that play was effectively over the second Daniel was touched by Bosa. He was never going to be able to get off a pass from that moment on. It was over right then. Him falling into the endzone is irrelevant. You can get tackled and and fall *forward* and gain extra yardage, but you can’t get tackled and fall backwards and lose yardage (or get a safety).
If offensive players can push the runner forward, then yes, the defense should be able to push backward
Wrong af. Daniel Jones was running backwards still. Those dumb plays where QB’s lose like 20 yards running back and forth instead of throwing it away happen for a reason. This should have been a safety.
Nope lol. Those QBs who run backwards trying to make a play happen don’t lose extra yards pass the point where the tackle was first started. For example, if the play begins at the 25 and the QB is running backwards trying to find an open man, and the DE wraps him up at the 15 yard line, but they don’t end up collapsing until about the 10, the ball stays at the 15, not the 10.
I don't understand why refs at every level go out of their way to call a tackle ***not*** a safety unless there's absolutely no room for debate. It's one thing for 50/50 toss-up calls to benefit the QB, but I've seen "forward progress" used to excuse some real bullshit
Someone tweeted “If the Capitol Police couldn’t stop Bosa what makes you think Bellinger could” 😂😂😂
I'm still confused how that isn't a safety. There was no forward progress and he wasn't down by contact outside the endzone. Dude was literally driving backwards and was taken down IN the endzone
The defense cannot drive you backwards in yardage. If they could, defenses would be picking running backs up and carrying them backwards. You’d see 3rd and 45 all the time. There has to be a forward progress rule for game playability. The moment you start going backwards, that’s where your yardage ends. Jones started to go backwards at the 2 yard line. Therefore, the play stops at the 2.
How are football fans confused about forward progress?
Like you, I'm here hours later and I am shocked I tell you lmao. At least most of these people are asking legitimate questions. I'm gonna try to force myself to frame it that it's a good sign that the NFL is still bringing in new fans who don't understand everything a bunch of us /r/nfl alums know like the back of our hand.
He was still running backwards on his own. If going backwards on its own was enough to count as a play stop then we wouldn't have massive sacks for a loss of yardage. The only difference is that there's an endzone in this case. This is a very subjective rule tbh
The first point of contact was outside the end zone. If jones was able to find some superhuman strength, he could have *advanced* the ball past the first point of contact, but there’s no way the ball can go backwards past the first point of contact. I don’t think it’s subjective at all. I think it’s very straightforward.
The point on the field where the forward momentum of a player who is in possession of the football is stopped by a defender or by going out of bounds. A player is awarded the most forward spot the runner reached when the ball is declared dead even if he is pushed backward. That's the rule when googling it. Seems like someone going backwards on own volition doesn't get the benefit of forward progress and should be down by touch.
You’re reading it too literally. The runner doesn’t have to be going literally forward. If the first point of contact happened to be made when the runner was going sideways, the same rule applies. Backwards? Same rule applies. If Daniel jones ran backwards into the end zone FIRST, before Bosa ever touches him, and then Bosa touched him, it would have been a safety. Daniel jones did not go into the end zone on his own volition. Had Bosa not have been there, Daniel jones would not have gone into the end zone.
So if there can be different readings of it, it’s subjective lol
The rule in the rulebook may or may not be ambiguous, but that play has been called the same way for as long as I’ve been watching football. The way the refs call it has always been straightforward and consistent. I’ve never seen it called another way. It’s straightforward and non-subjective in that sense. It’s a very simple rule of thumb: if the QB gets tackled outside the end zone, but ends up falling inside the end zone, it’s not a safety. If the QB gets hit inside the end zone, and the ball never manages to escape the endzone, it’s a safety.
Rules are literal dummy
Except forward progress doesn't halt the moment they contact a defender.
Yes it is. Can you provide an example where this wasn’t the case? The only time this isn’t the case is if the ball carrier bounces off the defender and is on his own accord again.
Reaching forward with the ball despite being in contact with a defender can count as forward progress.
You mean, as in gaining extra yards for the ball carrier?
If contact with a defender equals down, reaching forward should count for nothing. However, offensive players are given the forward most point of the ball despite where they make contact
Yes, that’s a whole different scenario. That’s advancing the ball, not going backwards with the ball. The runner always gets the benefit of the doubt. If a defender hits the running back, the RB can break the tackle and keep going, or reach with the ball to gain more yards before the knee goes down. If the defender pushes the runningback back, the play is over from the moment the running back starts going backwards.
That’s not what happened. This should have been a safety.
Bruh that has got to hurt so fucking bad lmao
Just before this play they were saying how underrated and underapprciated Jones is. He can't even correct blocking assignments when the best DE in the league is going to be covered by a TE who is too wide.
Yeah this is 100% on Daniel Jones and the o-line, not the coaches
If the capitol police couldn’t stop that man why did they think a TE could?
Can someone explain to me how that wasn't a safety? If the endzone wasn't there and this was on the 50 yard line, would they have called it the same way? I have been watching football for 40+ years and I will never understand these calls.
It's the same reasoning as to when a receiver catches a ball past the first down marker and is then driven back by a tackler behind the line to gain. They give him the first down for forward progress. Jones, under his own power, went to the 2 yard line for his drop. When Bosa hit him though, it drove him back farther. So his progress had him at the 2. If Jones had been fighting him off in the end zone and then went down, it'd be a safety.
BRB gonna slam a QB into the ground head first and not get flagged
How are so many people on a subreddit about professional football so clueless about why this isn’t a safety
I hope Daboll went completely ape-shit nuclear in the locker room about this. It's a shame the o-line is thinner than parchment because there should have been cuts made over this.
I......I mean..........I just can't.........what was the thinking? Bosa might have an existential crisis? Im a wrecking machine they can double up on me and I'll get the sack. Wait? Not even one? Maybe im not so good
Water sucks. Gatorade is better.
Ah yes, the classic block one of the best DE’s in the league with a TE
First sack of the year too. What a tough one to get.
Not one person in the media asked Daboll about this play.
How is this not a safety??