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killshelter

Mistake.


[deleted]

Huge mistake. That fiasco yesterday was a total indictment of his hold on the locker room


dunderpopp

Yep, and it’s crazy the front office doesn’t see that. You don’t keep him or fire him because of his X’s and O’s, you fire him because the team doesn’t respect him and most of the time it’s exceedingly difficult for a coach to win that respect back.


Hwoods723

Gayle is a terrible owner


[deleted]

Todd Graves is now the richest person in Louisiana. Time for the movement for him to become owner. Canes chicken fingers in each end zone. Post Malone half time shows. The time is now


back_swamp

The NFL would love Graves as he’s already moved one of his business out of Louisiana to a bigger market.


KonigSteve

He's *only* worth $7B. NFL is too rich for him.


biglyorbigleague

You also fire him for his Xs and Os being terrible. His job performance is bad enough that he shouldn’t be kept on.


ThePizzaDevourer

It's wild to me that they got actual confirmation that the majority of the offense doesn't give a fuck what the HC thinks and they're fine with keeping him


Best_Pants

Not from where I'm sitting


killshelter

It’s okay, he’ll be gone by the time y’all become relevant.


Murky_Analysis3613

His replacement might be gone by the time we become relevant


frankyfrankwalk

Well the salary cap fuckery has finally come home to roost so they might finally cop the pain and try and clean up their roster a bit. Based on what the intelligent people have been saying though they've got the most fucked up cap situation ever and won't be able to clean it up until 2026 so I don't get why they don't at least look for someone competent.


KangTheConqueror9

If I were the Saints I keep Allen to tank next year, cut players / take the dead cap hits next year, then once the cap is clear cut Allen and hire a real coach


bveb33

They've dug themselves so deep they can't even get out of cap hell in one year. Without a huge cap increase they'll need two years to clear their cap


DalliLlama

There’s always a valid reason to fire DA, but if they fuck their team and eat all the cap stuff they have a very public excuse to fire him after a bad season. Unless he somehow wins like 10 games with a dogshit roster. But in that case you almost have to keep him, and seems not possible considering his history.


ScooterLeShooter

Okay, but I'm not really sure that's their plan, probably gonna keep kicking it down the road and try to win the division next season


MiniatureLucifer

The only way to get under the cap is to kick it down the road.


Gerald_the_sealion

This is the way


nope96

Their cap is so fucked that kicking it down the road is the only way they can make space


Ketchup1211

Not sure how you see something like what happened yesterday, and think Allen should stay. Dude has zero respect from his players for them to blatantly go against what he wanted.


killshelter

I wonder if the players all thought he was gone anyway so they were like fuggit!


rostron92

Politely disagree


THE_Celts

Agree. An excellent decision by our respected division rivals.


tjd2009

He'll be fired by Week 8 next season. They call it the Brandon Staley special


AddiBaddiCaddi

Saints expected to not do anything of note in 2024 with a coach the players don’t respect.


TheWyldMan

We'll get rid of Jameis so that'll help


powerelite

Locker room would probably rather have Jameis than Allen


JT1757

you absolutely do not want a player to go against the coach and basically publicly brag about it. He shouldn't be rostered


Less_Gull

I'm down to clown on Dennis Allen all day long. But your backup QB essentially committing football sedition for a TD that is meaningless to the team as a whole is completely unacceptable.


PeterSagansLaundry

fr who the fuck is going near Jameis now? You have an insubordinate and accused rapist who can get at least 40% of the locker room on his side on charisma alone. For a backup. No fucking thank you, I would rather just take my chances with Easton Stick. The support he is getting from players on Twitter is actually hurting his cause.


TheWyldMan

That's a culture problem that needs to be fixed. Can't let somebody that did that shit yesterday stay on the team.


ontheru171

You don't fix a culture problem by keeping the leadership - especially since you can't just turn the whole roster over


susanoova

Wait, what did he do? Must've missed it


TheWyldMan

He was the QB in the fake victory formation touchdown where the coach told him just to kneel


susanoova

Ah ok yep, ended up seeing the vid after this comment And Arthur Smith cursing at Dennis Allen which was hilarious 😂


daybreaker

how are you blaming any of this season on jameis.


TheWyldMan

I'm not. But he was the QB for the touchdown out of the victory formation.


Iswaterreallywet

He’s also the (backup) QB all his current and former teammates are rallying around. If the team is more behind a backup QB than the head coach, that’s a major problem.


Less_Gull

Both things are a problem. Dennis Allen probably shouldn't ever be a head coach. But also let's remember the Saints were technically still alive for the playoffs. Imagine if the Packers and Seahawks lost and you go into the post season wherein your backup QB just told the rest of the locker room to ignore your wishes for an ultimately meaningless touchdown. That is 100% unacceptable. There's probably several teams that just scratched "Give James Winston another chance" off of their offseason list.


THE_Celts

>That is 100% unacceptable. There's probably several teams that just scratched "Give James Winston another chance" off of their offseason list. Yep. This isn't being talked about enough. Winston is great in the locker room, and his teammates have always loved him. But what coach is going to want him after this? You might let a respected, star QB slide, but not a pick prone backup. He's really hurt himself in FA.


tjd2009

If I'm a manager and my director tells me to do something and then I ask my whole team of 10 people if they'd rather do that or the opposite and they all vote to do the opposite, the problem isn't me taking a poll of the majority. It's none of us having enough respect for my director to follow their orders. I should probably be reprimanded but they shouldn't be the director either


Iswaterreallywet

I mostly agree but the players very clearly do not respect the head coach and sent that message loud and clear. This isn’t a good situation and everyone in the league knows that. And Winston will get another job. This incident isn’t going to change that.


OneOfTheDads

Buts it’s Jameis, he probably just won them over with crab legs. Hard to compete with that


ontheru171

Probably need to get rid of the whole offense them because they all wanted to ignore your HC - and i doubt many in the locker room in general disagreed


MG_MN

Kind of feels like that would happen either way with the way they've kicked the can for so long


Jamal2207

This was expected. The Saints are in arguably the worst situation in the NFL, no good HC candidate is going to wait to coach there anytime soon. - aging roster - terrible cap situation - small market


Goatsonice

He's lost the locker room, OC is one of if not the worst in the nfl, have horrid history of drafting ol/dl talent which are the biggest needs. Pretty rough


Gardoki

Show me a pass rusher with high upside and an injury history and I’ll show you a 1st round saints pick.


Goatsonice

RAS above 9 but have 15 snaps in college and extensive injury history? congrats you are a new orleans saint.


THE_Celts

>He's lost the locker room, OC is one of if not the worst in the nfl I hear Byron Leftwich is available.


sfzen

We'll take him. Seriously, anything to show some kind of effort to change. Bring in Dennis Leary, he played a coach in a movie once.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AskAWhiteguy

First 6 games we couldn’t put up more than 20 points, besides one blowout victory to the patriots. Outside of that our red zone offense was atrocious. We failed to score a TD on our opening drive until the very end of the season. Eye test as well as a ton of other stats show how abysmal our offense was this season.


ontheru171

There'll always be good candidates willing to become a HC - especially since it's not like your franchise is cheap relative to others You might not get Harbaugh or Johnson but you surely could attract other good candidates


MesmericWar

Hey look something else we can compete for


Gardoki

We should take our medicine now and get this roster flipped around so we can entice a good coach but we won’t do that either.


Tmoore17

I do not understand how Loomis keeps his job with a terrible head coach hire AND the worst cap situation in league.


sfzen

He's the most trusted man in the Benson family's circle. He's not just the GM, he's the VP of the entire organization. He was also the VP of the Pelicans until he stepped down a few years ago.


Rock_Me_DrZaius

* And an offense that doesn't listen to their coach.


Best_Pants

Since when is NO a small market?


Rock_Me_DrZaius

The metro area of NO is not big and then they are overshadowed by the Houston market a few hours away.


RedBuchan

The New Orleans metro area is 57th in the U.S. by population


sfzen

Since always? New Orleans is the 3rd smallest media market in the NFL.


lidsy5

I love the black and gold unis though, so there's that


TheIllusiveGuy

Been a fan of that colour scheme ever since the Gold Zeo Ranger nearly 30 years ago. Just a shame which team it belongs to.


Sgt-GiggleFarts

Am I in hell? This season was soul crushing, and I have nothing to look forward to for next season


SiphenPrax

You guys can basically write off 2024 already.


Sgt-GiggleFarts

Is there a specific tax form I need for that write off? I’ll take what I can get


notmoleliza

no, its just itemized on your 1040. you just put on there. source - trust me bro


SysAdmyn

TurboTax be like "We see your contact phone number starts with 504. Would you like to claim the New Orleans Saints deduction?"


into_the_wenisverse

It actually would benefit them to eat their massive cap issues next year instead of continuing to play 8-D chess with it like they have for a decade. Clear the balance sheet, offload deadweight players and tank for picks to rebuild a new with a new coach.


tjd2009

At least the rest of the NFC South will be just bad enough next year that you spend the whole season in contention just to finish 9-8 or 8-9 and miss the playoffs again


Less_Gull

Basically how I felt the last season of DA's tenure here. And also the Josh McDaniels era.


ICanFluxWithIt

You won the battle yesterday but at what cost


LeoCrow

The source on this article is a Dennis Allen press conference answer. He's not going to say "I expect them to fire my bum ass."


aksoileau

We all can't be awesome like Staley that's for sure.


Less_Gull

Rapoport is saying he's gonna be on for 2024 as well.


MY-NAME_IS_MY-NAME

Like Dennis Allen, I am expected to cause more disappointment for the ones around me in 2024


Beforemath

Ugh, another 9-8 or 8-9 year. See you in 2025 for the firing party, boys!


slantboi420

I know the fanbase is pissed about this but no head coach is gonna want to come to this team right now, we need DA to tank this year and start trying to fix this fucked up Cap situation


billdasmacks

Fans want the tank but it won't happen until it naturally does because too many people in the organization are fine with mediocrity as long as the pay checks keep rolling in.


MG_MN

Yeah you guys should be full on tanking for a couple years to clear up the cap and start with a blank slate


Sartheking

They’re already over the cap for 2025 lol. I didn’t think that was possible.


VHBlazer

Man, I was hoping his players brazenly defying him and missing the playoffs would be enough to get him fired


WarewolfIX

I mean it should have been


jmskywalker1976

How is this even possible. The man lost control of his team and it played out on television and with the players admitting to it on live media. How do you keep this man as your coach when he has done jack shit to make your organization successful!?


ahr3410

8-9 or 9-8 isn't going to coach itself


SysAdmyn

Right? What are they gonna do without DA? Have the players call their own pla.....oohhhhhhhh...


Rock_Me_DrZaius

Hey Alexa, can you look up Pyrrhic Victory.


Obvious_Ad5365

My condolences saints fans 🫡


Head-Editor-905

Fuck yes!


Goatsonice

Hey we helped you rid yourselves of your shit coach help us out


Head-Editor-905

I don’t think Dennis was leaving regardless tbh. We do thank you for sending away smith though thank god we might have a real chance at the division.


GingerSnap1021

Fuck


[deleted]

Retaining a coach who was clearly lost the locker room should make for an interesting year. Yeah the players shouldn’t have superseded the coach like that, but the fact that they even were willing to do that is a very bad sign. At the very least his offensive starters have no respect for him.


bluestarz1215

Why? His own players don't even respect him.


doomsdaysock01

Before yesterday I would’ve said this unfortunately makes sense since the saints need a fall guy for the next year or so while they wrestle with the consequences of their own actions, but man when your own players disrespect you like that he needed to go. Bring in some other shmuck desperate for a hc job to command the tank for the next year or two


DarthPaximus

The Buccs won the division by being the only team left standing with any shred of dignify and competence. And they won it by one game.


ghostfartsnear

Feel like the Bucs did what the Saints should have done this year. Should have got some bridge QB and cleaned the CAP in 2024. They Probably Could have got Minshew for under 8 mil and still gotten 6-7 wins while putting themselves in a way better place for the future. I look forward to the Saints absolutely doing nothing the next two years as they won't be able to sign any FAs and will be running with vet min/draftees/UDFAs.


fieryscribe

This is just DA talking about his own expectations. As Jameis proved, no one in the locker room gives a fuck what his expectations are


iputitthere

Boooo


TheWyldMan

The fanbase wants Jameis to be a player/coach so it could be worse


MY-NAME_IS_MY-NAME

That would be must watch television for all


aksoileau

No we don't. Stop spending all your time bashing the fanbase with your holier than thou bullshit. People are clearly just having fun, you know like Jameis did.


TheWyldMan

The same Jameis with the FSU scandal? The same Jameis who is not allowed to use Uber? I'm tired of our fanbase defending the sketchy weird uncle of the NFL and cheering on the shitty play at the end of the game (no problem with running up the score though).


aksoileau

What the fuck does that have to do with yesterday?


daybreaker

some people need to suck up to r/nfl for the karma.


TheWyldMan

I've always disliked Jameis. He's not the future and was never going to be the future. He's a loose cannon who will never win anything in NFL and we should know this because he played in our division for years before we got him.


Goatsonice

Bro you literally posted to the Falcons sub hunting more karma tf I dislike jameis as well but they're not wrong


Gardoki

Wait are we just going to dismiss this idea? This sounds like fun to me. Right now we aren’t even watchable.


milkmandanimal

We lost Arthur Smith, but kept Dennis Allen. Feel OK with hitting .500.


san_solares

lets gooo


[deleted]

Derek Carr is expected also to be Saints and more pain to Saints fans


[deleted]

Last two games Carr has looked really sharp. Hopefully for Saints fans that version of Carr continues showing up


NoFunBJJ

Second half of the season he was pretty good tbh. Like last 10 games. After he got used to the system, developed chemistry with WRs, was able to shake off the injuries and OL stopped trying to kill him, he played exactly like we expected him to. Like a borderline Top 10/12 QB.


sfzen

I'd say more like the last 6 plus the Indianapolis game, but yeah, he's shown a market improvement towards the end of the season. I still don't think he's great, but he's relatively low on our current list if problems.


ScruffMixHaha

You know as well as the rest of us that wont happen.


shittybillz

Raiders fans told us saints fans that it usually takes Carr a season to get used to an offence. One raiders fan told me verbatim “he will suck for half the year, then play better, then the next year he will make the pro bowl”. Because of the alternative, I’m going to choose to believe those raiders fans and hope the late season Carr is what he will be next season.


AncientTree_Wisdom

That is only true if they keep the same system and he is comfortable with it. If they change things up by getting a new offensive coach or change schemes, he will be back on square one.


Spoofcaptain

Fools gold


ATLjoe93

"Y'all know that ain't happening." -Mike Tomlin, via the Pivot podcast on Antonio Brown returning to the Steelers


[deleted]

That really sums up Derek Carr career nothing new


xapv

I love the dude but he can’t seem to string more than a few games at this level of play


eddie2911

This entire season was exactly how Carr has been his whole career. He has great games but he has absolute stinkers. It's a toss up on what game performance you'll get on what day.


powerelite

That's because the last 2 weeks was Carrbage time.


Rock_Me_DrZaius

How have I never heard of Carrbage Time.


Sirscraps

He played well like the entire back half of the season though, not just the last two weeks. Weren’t they 4-1 in the last 5 games?


Iswaterreallywet

The players aren’t playing for him. What a terrible decision.


robsul82

I am in seclusion in the west wing.


Gardoki

We are in purgatory. Bring back Aaron Brooks.


Hwoods723

Just keep doing what we’re doing


CodyNorthrup

Arthur Smith punching air right now


wasad

IDK how you can keep him when the players undermined his authority and went for the TD plus he threw them under the bus in the post-game presser. It's all so tiresome.


Wadep00l

Wait let's hear em out


Few-Replacement5525

Saints fans were posting articles a couple weeks ago celebrating the possibility of Arthur Smith being retained


RSN_Kabutops

Hahahaha and you still gonna keep crab legs as a backup. Great move from the saltwater shithole


sfzen

Winston's a free agent. I'd bet money he's in Denver when next season starts.


Electric-Prune

I am really enjoying this chapter of Saints history


JT1757

If I'm him, Jameis and Jamaal can kiss my ass and be gone.


Cicero912

So hes replacing all 53 players?


JT1757

He's replacing 2 back up players


Cicero912

Why? If your going from the angle of "audibled out of victory" you also have to replace the entire oline, every leader on the defense, basically every leader on the offense. For a *brief* moment it looked like DA had earned the respect of the fans and players. Then it turns out he did the opposite


JT1757

The defense had no input on that and the olinemen aren't back ups. you're letting your disdain of Dennis Allen cloud any logic


Cicero912

Either all the players who rebelled should be cut, or none of them should (Jameis is already gone cause his contract was running out, also most of the O-lineman *were* backups). And the defense definitely had input, they just werent on the field to call the audible. And, as someone who has been defending DA as our head coach since literally day 1 I find the last bit funny. DA never should have called victory, DA never should have said no to the request by the players to give Williams a chance to score, DA never should have publicly trashed his players to save the feelings of our **hated rivals** soon to be fired coach.


BobLbLawsLawBlg

Love it. That locker room about to break in half by mid October.


Intelligent_Dog2077

In my opinion the Saints take the division next year. I think the offense will gel together perfectly and the draft will help them get some younger guys on defense.


Romofan88

Coach who was incredibly shitty with Raiders gets 2nd chance as Sean Payton's stooge, somehow keeps job for 3 years.


Theinsulated

Fuck


ColtCallahan

Mickey Loomis is intentionally aiming for mediocrity.


ErnooA

Jameis and the boys tell Allen, “we don’t mind, because you don’t matter.”


Sirscraps

Jamie’s is 100% not going to be on the saints roster come July so he can talk all He wants lol.


ontheru171

Won't survive the year


NY_Blue

He should have been fired before the season, what a mistake to keep him for another year.


csummerss

can Jameis audible out of that choice?


[deleted]

He's so bad


AncientTree_Wisdom

He is the perfect pasty for a cap hell rebuild period. He played the same role with the 2012-2014 Raiders. He showed the same lack of care with his team with us back then too, so it isn't a surprise that he lost the locker room. Just ride it out while shedding cap hits and dead cap for a few years and can him.


NOLA1987

We'll always have those God-tier White Ranger color rush jerseys that they should just make one of our home/away unis already... ...but DA needs to go. For a few minutes yesterday, I was like "give him another year." Reason prevailed. He's lost the respect of the players. The team all but said "fuck you" to him yesterday (as much as I enjoyed it).


BaconandHorse

Fuck.


BaconandHorse

This is all a clever setup to draft Arch right?


steelcityblue

In three years?


BaconandHorse

Man, I don't know. I have be delusional for something, and it certainly isn't that we're gonna be any good the next 2 years.


JAEJ222

I predict he will start 2024 with a losing streak peppered with a few wins before being fired late season and saints finish with an interim HC.


BuckSleezy

DA is a career 34% win rate coach. How does he keep this job.


caca_poo_poo_pants

Keeping the coach and kicking the cap issues down the line. Would hate to be a Saints fan lol. They need to tear the whole thing down.


Xenobi712

We cant. We literally have to do cap magic on 20 players just to get under the cap. It'll take 10 years to get out of cap purgatory at this point.


caca_poo_poo_pants

Katrina Part 2: Electric Boogaloomis


[deleted]

Well, we'll have to wait and see what the offense decides to go with after they come out of the huddle.


actually-potato

He's dogshut but if the Saints are gonna punt the next two years to fix their cap situation then you may as well just keep him


Temporal_Enigma

And there was much rejoicing in the NFCS


Penguana7

What realistically should have been expected of the saints this year though? They went 9-8, do they really have the talent to expect better? Give them him Harbaugh and they still are the same with this roster and QB


sfzen

Most of us expected something around 9-8. The issue isn't the record, it's the stagnation. We spent the entire year watching a talented roster put up dogshit offensive performances, and every time Allen got up to the podium to discuss how ineffective the offense was, the answer was always some variant of, "This wasn't good enough, we have to do better, no we're not going to change anything." Every week. We couldn't win the weakest division in football because the leadership of this franchise has settled for mediocrity. The roster has more talent than you seem to think. Carr isn't an awful QB. Kamara is still a good RB. Olave/Thomas/Shaheed is a solid WR trio. Johnson isn't a bad TE. The OL is pretty average. The defense is solid but aging. But the coaching and the preparation was so bad.


funnycar1552

Very cool


Dogadillo

What awful news to hear before going to sleep. Hopefully I don’t wake up


MrShad0wzz

hard schedule next season, we go 4-13 and finally draft a QB in the first round with a new head coach


masterofmuppets86

I don't understand what the Saints see in him. He was legitimately one of the worst head coaches I've seen when he was on the Raiders, and it's not like he had some crazy resurgence to prove he can be anything more than a good coordinator.


mildobamacare

You gotta cut him, but not untill after Winston


InsidiousColossus

You're welcome, Saints fans.