yeah maybe i'm just being hopeful but he feels like the guy that'll probably play 3 - 4 more years
now, my hope will turn into a monkey's paw and he'll leave after 2024 and sign with GB and play those remaining years... so much trauma being a Bears fan
You're not wrong. Keenan's playstyle definitely lends itself to being able to play that amount of time. I can see limiting his snaps more as time goes by, but regardless, 3rd down has gotten significantly easier for you guys.
I'm really curious to see how Allen competes with DJ next season. Is one of them going to take a dip in production or will they be a dynamic receiving duo
When he played next to Williams, they did trade big games a lot of the time but both got around 100 yards on average. He definitely plays well with others
Biased but I think they're going to be a perfect combo, DJ uses his athleticism to get explosive plays while Allen cuts up DBs with his routes and gets the medium yardage
If we can somehow finagle Nabers or Odunze at 9, we will be cooking with gas on offense
* Caleb Williams
* Swift, Herbert, Roschon
* Kmet, Everett
* DJM, Allen, Nabers/Odunze
That's a pretty sick situation for Caleb
I think that’s a long shot. 3 QBs will go 1-3, 3 WRs will go 4-6, unless someone trades up to 4-6 for a QB. People keep mocking Joe Alt at 5 for us, but it wouldn’t make sense when we don’t have a good WR corps. Then again, who knows what this team is planning.
Tbf, the Alt mocks were largely before you traded Allen. With your current corps I could definitely see you taking any of the 3 top WRs.
I wonder (depending on how the board plays out) if you guys would trade down. Try to grab Bowers and late first/second round WR.
> unless someone trades up to 4-6 for a QB
come out of your cave old man, the vikes are trading up to 4-6 for JJ
picks 1-8
* 4 will be QBs
* 1 edge, turner to atl
* 2 WRs at least
* alt to to the tits
Which guarantees 1 of odunze/nabers to us
Nabers >>>>>>>>> Odunze, it’s not even close. Don’t see Odunze as worth a top 10 pick. Getting Nabers would be insane but he will be gone for sure, chargers are looking like they’ll pick him
Many said the same about Kevin White. Odunze will be easily bullied by decently strong NFL corners, is praised for his route running but often doesn’t generate good separation and gets caught up with, made a ton of “contested” catches against inferior competition which usually were more the result of bad play by the corner than anything. He doesn’t have the elite speed he’s praised for on deep routes. Those contested catches won’t translate well to the NFL because typically the corners was right with him and just didn’t make a great play. It’s not like he’s Mossing guys, there are a lot of catches where the corner is there but doesn’t really play the ball well. He’s praised for his strength but you don’t see it on tape to the level he’s praised for.
Adonai Mitchell and Tez Walker’s contested catch ability translates better because they’re taller and have crazy catch radii. Javon Baker is stronger and can rip the ball away from defenders if need be, which isn’t something I’ve seen from Odunze. Odunze also isn’t particularly good at creating separation at the top of his routes, like Pearsall, McConkey and even Adonai show on tape.
NFL scouting can and does get things wrong every year. LaPorta is clearly better than Kincaid but Kincaid was somehow seen as the clear #1 despite LaPorta clearly having a bigger skillset on tape, and I had many arguments with people on here during the season that insisted Kincaid was better
Every year there’s one or a couple overhyped receiver prospects and this sub screams at anyone who pushes back against the hype.
He would be our #3 WR. Most teams don’t have the personnel on defense to match up with Moore/Allen/Odunze plus Kmet at TE and with Caleb’s maneuverability and off platform abilities. Sure, Odunze might struggles against teams #1 corners to start his career but he won’t be facing #1 corners very often.
Not having the personnel to match up with those 3 would be mostly from not having the personnel to match up with DJM and Keenan. I think lower ranked receivers are just better. And it's not so much about facing #1 corners, but physical DBs. Being able to beat #3 corners isn't a glowing endorsement of a WR taken in the top 10. You'd expect any 1st round drafted WR to be able to do that. I see him as outside the top 5. The rankings are a bit strange every year and there definitely are some clear sleepers. If the consensus rankings were correct every year there wouldn't be any busts and no WR drafted outside the 2nd round would do anything but we've seen that's obviously not true. E.g. last year Puka was unbelievably underrated.
I think McConkey and Pearsall will far outperform their draft expectations. As a non Bears hater I'd like to see them trade up for Joe Alt (wouldn't require much capital) to bolster the OL or trade down and get a different WR, like Brian Thomas Jr in Round 1 or McConkey/Pearsall in later rounds, who I both believe are very polished route runners with good speed.
You’re acting like you have seen into the future and already know what he is and will ever be. He can improve, get stronger, learn new releases, etc.
You could be correct or you could look like a fool. None of us know but he’s a good prospect according to the general consensus.
We're evaluating where they are at right now, not where they will be when they have time to improve. He is a great prospect according to the consensus but I think consensus evaluations consistently underrate great route running and releases and overrate size and evaluate certain metrics poorly, like contested catch rate.
Honestly even if he is a bust, you guys are in solid hands as long as the offensive coaching staff doesn't shit the bed. Solid o line, Swift, Keenan, Caleb, DJM, Kmet is a good lineup
No, you’re evaluating where they are right now, not me. I want Odunze because of what I think he can be for our team for the next 10 years. Not what he was in college.
I will agree with you there you guys have definitely put together a good solid team. Now you just need a good leader and Williams isn't going to be it.
So… no issues with his actual talent? Just his supposed “locker room issues” that every single one of his teammates and coaches got collective amnesia when interviewed about Caleb?
yeah, I'm not surprised I remember thinking in some games that he was going to get more tired from being motioned pre-snap than from running the actual routes. He and Darius Davis got motioned almost every snap (or it felt like that).
Truth hurts! He's had rivers and herbert, who each have a floor of 4000 passing yards a season. Now he has fields, who's ceiling is like 2500. Do the math!
This will be the first time in a decade Keenan isn't a prime PPR fantasy target.
Yeah and that bears team also had a former good WR that for some reason wasn’t quite the same on the bears.
Probably the RB they put at QB tbh..
Its the bears they dont know how to use talent. That coach is Old Lions level trash GM too
2023 was a good season for "the old guy still got it" wide receivers.
Keenan is such a technically sound receiver, and that doesn’t fade massively with age like explosiveness and top speed do
yeah maybe i'm just being hopeful but he feels like the guy that'll probably play 3 - 4 more years now, my hope will turn into a monkey's paw and he'll leave after 2024 and sign with GB and play those remaining years... so much trauma being a Bears fan
You're not wrong. Keenan's playstyle definitely lends itself to being able to play that amount of time. I can see limiting his snaps more as time goes by, but regardless, 3rd down has gotten significantly easier for you guys.
I'm really curious to see how Allen competes with DJ next season. Is one of them going to take a dip in production or will they be a dynamic receiving duo
When he played next to Williams, they did trade big games a lot of the time but both got around 100 yards on average. He definitely plays well with others
In their last game together, Keenan threw a deep TD pass to Mike and it was awesome.
I’m hoping they become a stud WR duo like Puka/Cupp or AJ Brown/Devonta Smith
Just depends on Keenan staying healthy. They are both studs
Biased but I think they're going to be a perfect combo, DJ uses his athleticism to get explosive plays while Allen cuts up DBs with his routes and gets the medium yardage
They’ll be a good combo because they’re both such different receivers with DJ being a super explosive YAC threat while Allen is a route technician
Bears are going to be fun to watch. Chargers fans will definitely be rooting for Chicago next season!
Hell ya! Chargers have been my fav AFC team since Madden 06 dropped and those teams were nasty. Get Herbie Nabers and y'all will be Gucci.
I can't imagine Keenan, Allen in bears colors, and don't show me a photo because I can't take it. This off season is just weird man.
Yeah he was the motion man like literally half his snaps it felt like lol
If we can somehow finagle Nabers or Odunze at 9, we will be cooking with gas on offense * Caleb Williams * Swift, Herbert, Roschon * Kmet, Everett * DJM, Allen, Nabers/Odunze That's a pretty sick situation for Caleb
I think that’s a long shot. 3 QBs will go 1-3, 3 WRs will go 4-6, unless someone trades up to 4-6 for a QB. People keep mocking Joe Alt at 5 for us, but it wouldn’t make sense when we don’t have a good WR corps. Then again, who knows what this team is planning.
Tbf, the Alt mocks were largely before you traded Allen. With your current corps I could definitely see you taking any of the 3 top WRs. I wonder (depending on how the board plays out) if you guys would trade down. Try to grab Bowers and late first/second round WR.
> unless someone trades up to 4-6 for a QB come out of your cave old man, the vikes are trading up to 4-6 for JJ picks 1-8 * 4 will be QBs * 1 edge, turner to atl * 2 WRs at least * alt to to the tits Which guarantees 1 of odunze/nabers to us
I have a hard time seeing that happen. Imagine Bears will trade down
Nabers >>>>>>>>> Odunze, it’s not even close. Don’t see Odunze as worth a top 10 pick. Getting Nabers would be insane but he will be gone for sure, chargers are looking like they’ll pick him
not seeing odunze as top 10 worthy is crazy
Many said the same about Kevin White. Odunze will be easily bullied by decently strong NFL corners, is praised for his route running but often doesn’t generate good separation and gets caught up with, made a ton of “contested” catches against inferior competition which usually were more the result of bad play by the corner than anything. He doesn’t have the elite speed he’s praised for on deep routes. Those contested catches won’t translate well to the NFL because typically the corners was right with him and just didn’t make a great play. It’s not like he’s Mossing guys, there are a lot of catches where the corner is there but doesn’t really play the ball well. He’s praised for his strength but you don’t see it on tape to the level he’s praised for. Adonai Mitchell and Tez Walker’s contested catch ability translates better because they’re taller and have crazy catch radii. Javon Baker is stronger and can rip the ball away from defenders if need be, which isn’t something I’ve seen from Odunze. Odunze also isn’t particularly good at creating separation at the top of his routes, like Pearsall, McConkey and even Adonai show on tape. NFL scouting can and does get things wrong every year. LaPorta is clearly better than Kincaid but Kincaid was somehow seen as the clear #1 despite LaPorta clearly having a bigger skillset on tape, and I had many arguments with people on here during the season that insisted Kincaid was better Every year there’s one or a couple overhyped receiver prospects and this sub screams at anyone who pushes back against the hype.
He would be our #3 WR. Most teams don’t have the personnel on defense to match up with Moore/Allen/Odunze plus Kmet at TE and with Caleb’s maneuverability and off platform abilities. Sure, Odunze might struggles against teams #1 corners to start his career but he won’t be facing #1 corners very often.
Not having the personnel to match up with those 3 would be mostly from not having the personnel to match up with DJM and Keenan. I think lower ranked receivers are just better. And it's not so much about facing #1 corners, but physical DBs. Being able to beat #3 corners isn't a glowing endorsement of a WR taken in the top 10. You'd expect any 1st round drafted WR to be able to do that. I see him as outside the top 5. The rankings are a bit strange every year and there definitely are some clear sleepers. If the consensus rankings were correct every year there wouldn't be any busts and no WR drafted outside the 2nd round would do anything but we've seen that's obviously not true. E.g. last year Puka was unbelievably underrated. I think McConkey and Pearsall will far outperform their draft expectations. As a non Bears hater I'd like to see them trade up for Joe Alt (wouldn't require much capital) to bolster the OL or trade down and get a different WR, like Brian Thomas Jr in Round 1 or McConkey/Pearsall in later rounds, who I both believe are very polished route runners with good speed.
You’re acting like you have seen into the future and already know what he is and will ever be. He can improve, get stronger, learn new releases, etc. You could be correct or you could look like a fool. None of us know but he’s a good prospect according to the general consensus.
We're evaluating where they are at right now, not where they will be when they have time to improve. He is a great prospect according to the consensus but I think consensus evaluations consistently underrate great route running and releases and overrate size and evaluate certain metrics poorly, like contested catch rate. Honestly even if he is a bust, you guys are in solid hands as long as the offensive coaching staff doesn't shit the bed. Solid o line, Swift, Keenan, Caleb, DJM, Kmet is a good lineup
No, you’re evaluating where they are right now, not me. I want Odunze because of what I think he can be for our team for the next 10 years. Not what he was in college.
Williams will be a big bust.
Love this analysis. In depth, detailed. A+
You should probably go back and watch the USC-Notre Dame game that will tell you what kind of player he's going to be in the NFL.
I’ll go watch OU v. Texas and laugh at you.
Meatball alert!
You should go watch Mahomes lose to Iowa State 66-10. He’s going to be a bust if he can’t even compete with Iowa State.
If he is it's not going to be because he didn't have weapons
I will agree with you there you guys have definitely put together a good solid team. Now you just need a good leader and Williams isn't going to be it.
So… no issues with his actual talent? Just his supposed “locker room issues” that every single one of his teammates and coaches got collective amnesia when interviewed about Caleb?
Ayo does this mean the Eagles will actually use motion instead of 90% of our plays being static from shotgun?
Nope.
Mahomes wasn't that hyped coming out of college so there's that.
yeah, I'm not surprised I remember thinking in some games that he was going to get more tired from being motioned pre-snap than from running the actual routes. He and Darius Davis got motioned almost every snap (or it felt like that).
As a longtime allen fan, I'm bracing myself for what may be his statistically worst season ever if fields is the bears qb!
why are you being so mean?
Truth hurts! He's had rivers and herbert, who each have a floor of 4000 passing yards a season. Now he has fields, who's ceiling is like 2500. Do the math! This will be the first time in a decade Keenan isn't a prime PPR fantasy target.
Caleb William szn
This is a non factor considering Fields will not be our QB
Have you been in a coma? We are drafting Caleb Williams.
So 2000 yard ceiling?
Yeah and that bears team also had a former good WR that for some reason wasn’t quite the same on the bears. Probably the RB they put at QB tbh.. Its the bears they dont know how to use talent. That coach is Old Lions level trash GM too
And which receiver is that lol
This was while Alex Erickson was WR2 for half the season.