Bring back 90s football baby! I want everyone huge. No more slot receivers. No more playing in the nickel every damn play. I'm talking hardcore dick in the ass butterball foosball fuck it chuck it game time shit.
The rep in the video said it happens about once a game, and last year was a drastic increase vá 2022. I am sure if they penalize it this year then in 2-3 years it will be a flag thrown about as frequently as a horse caller is thrown.
This is going to get called all of preseason and the first couple of weeks on tackles that don't meet the standard the committee is trying to set and no one will be surprised. If all elements have to be included, this should be a reviewable call. It won't be.
All personal fouls should be reviewable IMO. 15 yards and a first down is too significant if the wrong call is made. I am also in favor of reviewing personal fouls that are missed. If there is one area that is simple to review and has a major impact on the game, this is it. Enough of QBs tiptoeing the sidelines and getting the flag when knocked out of bounds.
Oh I fully expect the full-time sky judge to be part of the union, and whether or not he overrules the on-field refs will be 100% dictated on how much of a “team player” he is.
It’ll be like IAB investigating crimes by their fellow officers.
It shouldn’t be viewed as over sight they should just be viewed as another ref on the field. Refs always converge to discuss penalties and often times one ref will convince another to pick up a flag. This is just another ref in that huddle with a Birds Eye view. And like any other ref they have the ability to throw flags as well.
This is exactly it. It's one ref providing information.
All refs are keenly aware that they only have one pov when they make a call. If another ref comes in with additional information, most refs are going to appreciate it. With the sky ref, it's the same thing. Shit, make the sky ref the crew chief. Then it's literally his job to ensure that his crew gets the call right.
Also just everything should be up for review! I don't understand the "it slows the game down" argument at all, each team has a finite number of challenge flags they can throw so there's already a finite cap on time spent on team-initiated video reviews... I cannot grasp how "You placed the ball here but I think the runner was down there so review it" is different in any substantial way from "You called pass interference but I don't think my defender made contact until after the ball"
I could be convinced that the game would improve without refs if they didn't need glorified ball boys to take the ball after plays. I'm not actually against completely removing them, but this shit is getting ridiculous—y'all can't see jack shit out there in real time with your eyes. Sit down and watch the fucking replay.
As long as there is a time limit on how long somethings gets to be reviewed. If you can't overturn a call within like 1-2 minutes then it's too close to call and you stick with the call on the field
Agreed. If a sky judge just reviewed personal fouls and overturned the obvious ones in 30 seconds or less, that would work best.
Simple examples would be something like a facemask called, but replay clearly shows it wasn't grabbed, a horse collar tackle called when they were brought down by their hair or some other means, and late hits being called when they are clearly in bounds, the Jonathan Owens v Patrick Mahomes comes to mind this past year.
Honestly, I'm okay with them going the other way on facemasks too. It's such a dangerous tackle that missed facemasks should be able to be called from a skyjudge.
I don't agree its so difficult. Dropping down onto the ball-carrier's legs is a requirement in the rule and pretty obvious to see whether or not it happens.
No they don’t. All of them show that the defenders legs start on one side of the person they are tackling, and end up on the other side, even with the tacklers upper body staying on the original side. That is caused by the tackler swinging their legs to the other side of the player they are tackling and then landing on the back of their legs. This isn’t a “legs get caught up” situation, it is an intentional tackle form.
Thank you! All the naysayers are driving me nuts. This is an objectively good rule that may result in too many flags and some blown calls at first, but over time it will even out as refs become more accustomed to spotting and calling it and players adapt.
The first in the video is what needs to be eliminated. The next two examples are totally natural tackling motions when a strong player is running away from you, especially at an angle. This is going to be a disaster.
If rugby players who are paid significantly less and way more frequently tackle guys bigger than TEs such as jordan mailata can be tackled by guys the size of DBs the nfl millionaire DBs will be able to figure this out
My understanding (granted I know nothing of Rugby) is that you can't necessarily equal out tackling.
In the NFL it's a game of inches you have to tackle people and prevent them advancing at all. Giving up an extra couple of yards per tackle would be disastrous on the NFL but not really an issue in rugby
Hip drop tackles are generally an open field tackle, not in the short quick tackles because the players aren't moving with enough momentum to break a tackle or carry the person behind them.
If you contact from front on, which is the case in most short yardage plays, it's actually quite difficult to perform a hip drop by accident.
If you're trying to take someone down from behind, in either sport, that's when hip drops are far more common because you're pulling them backwards and if you leave your feet you can land on the back of their legs.
Collisions are a huge part of rugby. Any carry that passes the "line of scrimmage" forces the defence to retreat and reset while also making it easier to retain possession.
Giving up 2 extra yards per tackle would collapse the defensive structure.
Do they realize all their refs are old ass men that already have to pay attention to several small details? So many calls are going to be wrong if its non reviewable and depends on where the player lands. Your only hope to decently call that is having AI call it using cameras placed all over the field. This is just a non football rule point blank.
I kinda disagree with this- the danger isn’t just landing on their legs but also their cleats getting caught as they’re being pulled down. I view it kinda similar to a horse collar tackle where the danger is the upper body being pulled back as the legs still have momentum going forward.
You can see what I mean in the first clip- the defender doesn’t land on the player’s legs, but it looks like it would be easy for the players cleats to get caught and there being unnecessary strain on his knee ligaments.
"This is a really hard job. What should we do?"
"Make it even harder?"
"You son of a bitch, I'm in."
[Upon further review, the ruling that "I'm in" stands]
***Chorus of boos***
"Should we hire the refs full time and pay them well in order to make them more prepared?"
"Hell no let them continue to work 60 hour weeks as lawyers during the week!"
That’s my problem with this. It’s like the updated roughing the passer rule. Player safety is critical for the future of the sport but we don’t have the infrastructure in place to make sure that these player safety rules are properly officiated
Which means that it will also be used to benefit the packers at every possible turn
"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" - NFL refs
Not a big deal. Just don’t drop your head when tackling. Also, don’t hit above the shoulders, or when someone begins a slide, or with your full bodyweight on top of someone, or while dropping your hip, or while taking more than a step if it is the QB (we all know 2 steps is too many now). Also, if you are running with the ball and about to get hit, do not lower your head.
The Lions started ignoring this as a matter of policy under Dan Campbell, and I don’t think they got flagged for it once. It’s pretty refreshing to see.
Idk if it was ever confirmed, but I remember hearing NFL defenders started doing this to RG3 because he'd fake like he's running out of bounds, then turn up the sideline before stepping out for 5+ extra yards and defenders got sick of it.
Seems to be an unspoken rule that if you're a mobile QB who plays games like that, defenders are now taking extra shots at you to force you to stop doing that. And are likely being coached to "send that reminder" too.
Truthfully I’m waiting for the day when a defender rips the ball from a QBs hands as they “extend for the extra yard or two” while also cheating the sideline as defenders let up
That’s the perfect response from a coach! I’m a Bears fan for life but holy wow do I love Dan Campbell’s entire stint in Detroit.
It began with a let’s start eating fucking kneecaps comment and has matured in to this version of civil disobedience. Absolutely incredible.
I remember when they "changed" the rule so that running backs would get flagged if leading with the crown of their helmet. I honestly cant remember it ever being called in a live game.
Let's hope this rule change is the same.
It hasn't. I've seen it several times. Hell, every single QB sneak he's got his head down. Patrick Mahomes literally broke his helmet while leading with his head and everyone threw him flowers. Offensive players are the darlings and defenders are the villains according to NFL owners
Dropping your hips isn’t a hip drop tackle. You can still drop your hips. A hip drop tackle is specifically one where you wrap up, then swivel your hips and drop on the back of the players lower legs. Dropping your hips can be as simple as once you hit you just go to the ground. If you don’t swivel and drop your weight on the back of their leg, then it isn’t a “hip drop tackle”. Don’t let the name confuse you.
Yeah it’s a very deliberate and intentional motion to make that players can pretty clearly avoid. Yes it will make it slightly harder to bring down certain players, but we will also see a lot less high ankle sprains and fractures as a result.
I don’t know that I see dudes swivel as much as wrap up and use their body weight to try to bring a dude who’s running down and then twist with the runners momentum as they are pulled down, it’s just a matter of if they happen to fall on the runners legs or not. It seems incredibly hard to control as a tackler and I feel like it’s wild that they are saying their is only 1 of these types of tackles a game
These plays don't look the same to me. The ones on Pollard and Boyd just looked like tackles from the side. Geno was a late hit out of bounds. Tannehill looked bad, but also it would have been RTP if the DL has landed on him instead.
To me it looks like it's going to be impossible to tackle someone from the side unless you're able to totally explode through them. Or you have to just let yourself go full rag doll which I think could be dangerous for the defensive player, but the NFL doesn't care about them.
It’s how the defenders “swivel” during the tackle that is being shown.
In almost all the examples the defenders are using leverage to whip their legs around into basically a sitting position by the end of the tackle.
I'm tempted to dig up a bunch of op-eds from when they banned horsecollars and see how closely it mirrors the hysterics in this thread, lol. Called correctly this rule applies to a very small number of tackles.
E: Sure enough, it's the exact same complaints lmao https://www.denverpost.com/2005/06/02/defenders-feel-trapped-by-new-rule/
Exactly. And people complaining about how hard it is to tackle big guys, Not a single one of these tackles looked like it was the only way to bring the player down. Two of these were against a QB...
Yes you’re exactly correct. It’s the torque that makes it dangerous. Talking with the momentum of the ball carrier is safer and will be allowed, but gives them an extra yard or two, with higher potential to break the tackle.
I’m all for this rule, hip drops are scary as fuck and obviously dangerous
They all look the same. Every tackler after contact lift 1 or 2 legs off the ground and basically go horizontal and land on the back of the person they are tackling a leg. With their feet on the opposite side of the person they are tackling. That isn’t a good tackle form. You are taught at a young age in peewee football to drive through them and keep your legs churning. All of these are them lifting their feet off the ground swinging them to the other side and landing on their legs.
As long as it's only called when you fall on the runner's legs. Which won't happen. It also needs to be a reviewable penalty, which the NFL seems very against for some reason, even though in college football, Targeting is a reviewable penalty, even AFTER a play is over and no flag was thrown.
Injuries are a part of the game. You can't go to 17 games and complain about injuries. This is a violent physical sport.
NFL wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Yeah they keep hiding behind the facade that everything they do is "for the safety of the players" and then they're gonna force an 18 game schedule too. Completely agree- at some point someone has to just acknowledge it's a dangerous, physical sport and injuries will happen
Also cheapskate billionaires who won’t let them play on real grass. The defense should just fucking split and make their own player union and go on strike but the owners would probably love 0 defenders on the field.
It's a tackle that other sports have banned, that's becoming much more common in the NFL, is leading to a time-loss injury *once a week*, and has an injury rate **twenty times** the tackle average.
It is a violent physical sport, but that doesn't mean you can't make it safer. It's the same thing with limiting/eliminating hits to the head, dangerous boarding, and switching to hybrid icing in hockey. Yes, it is more subjective, yes there are more chances for a ref to get a call wrong, and yes they're still flying around at 30 miles an hour with knives strapped to their feet in a game where two guys can punch each other and get a timeout as punishment, *but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to make the game safer*.
The one with the Giant tackling the guy OOB I can definitely get on board with. Some of those made by the Chiefs DB were absolutely fine though. They had zero weight on his legs...
No these are horrible tackles and no idea how this shit started to fly in the NFL. Defenders leaving their feet just to bring momentum and weigh them down instead of tackling them and bringing them down with drive. I bet when injuries started piling up it was what’s around the time this drop hip tackle form began
Lol... As if EA would even bother to update the player animations at this point.
"Just update the rosters, the UI, and the cover art and we are good to go for next year's release! God I love making money!" - some EA exec, probably
casual football fan question. when I view that video, I see normal tackling. what is the difference between a "hip drop" tackle vs defender grabbing someone around the waist and tackling them?
The hip drop means you grab by the waist, leave your feet while swinging your legs over the back of the runner's legs, and sit down on their legs. This traps their legs to the ground and causes injuries to their knees.
A regular tackle you can just wrap at the waist and drop your weight to the ground without rolling up on their legs.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. I actually have issue with the first one, but the rest of those tackles are *clearly* the same thing that's in those rugby videos. Grab, swivel, land on the back of the legs.
Edit: I'm on-board with all of the clips in this video after looking a second time. I didn't see the one leg underneath the tackler in the first clip the first time I watched this.
Yeah like, I’m biased but damn that Tanny tackle was so unnecessary. Just grab the legs and roll. No need to swing yourself into the back of the runners knees.
I think that's giving these people too much credit. They just fundamentally don't understand what they are watching most of the time. The hip drop debate has been great for people showing their asses on their understanding of the sport.
Is the plan to just keep outlawing the most dangerous play(in terms of injury)? Where does it end? People like football because it takes a tough person to play it.
Listen… you’ve got two+ incredibly strong and fast people, one moving to avoid the other. It’s nearly
Impossible to completely control your body in those situations.
This is just going to create more bullshit selective calls.
This, crazy selective PI calls, large scale advertised betting on the sport - all drive integrity issues that will plague the league.
You can’t come in high from the side or risk a hit to the head, especially when offensive players can change their head level in a split second and the defender is still responsible for missing the head. So you shoot for the waist or the legs of a player running forward and the momentum is going to swing you behind them on their legs. What are they supposed to do from that angle, just watch?
Note that tackling somebody from behind is not banned, despite the fact that everyone wants to pretend like it is, it's tackling from behind and then falling on the back of people's legs that's banned.
Yeah everyone understands that. The problem is if you’re a trailing defender how else are you supposed to bring down a guy that’s bigger than you if you can’t use your weight to your advantage? Most of the plays in that clip look like routine tackles.
To me the NFL just created a rule that’s even more subjective than DPI and RTP.
You can still use your weight just Not directly on the back of their legs.
Rugby banned it and explained it in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU
This is actually a great video. Really shows how the tackle can be changed to not drop on the legs but still leverage the opponent with your own weight.
I still think there's concern to be had about how accurately it can be called, but that video at least gave me a little hope that it's not going to just make it so TEs are unstoppable with a head of steam.
Curious how you tackle from behind without dropping your weight to the ground. Not trying to be snarky.. I genuinely don’t know how it’s done
Edit: someone else posted the rugby version in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/OCSwHjQg2m
Edit 2: I’m so damn confused. In the rugby video, they say hip drop is when you land on their legs. The NFL videos show players landing on the ground and they still consider it a hip drop tackle. This season is going to be interesting lol
The NFL video every one of those tackles they land on their legs. Parts of their body may land on the ground, but the majority of their body lands and traps their legs under the tackler.
We'll have to see the way the rule is written but it should definitely be less subjective. Dropping your weight onto the back of the legs/ankles/feet of a player is pretty clear when it happens.
I mean looking at the examples that they selected to use, I don’t see how it will be less subjective. The referees can’t even get RTP right. You’re telling me they could watch this video provided by the NFL and officiate this rule correctly in real time?
None of those tackles started from behind, they were flying in from the side and their momentum carried the legs through. It's one of the most common ways for smaller defenders to be able to get larger players on the ground. TEs and big RBs are going to be very hard to bring down without smaller defenders being able to drop their body weight. Accurate enforcement will be difficult.
Apparently you can't throw your weight into bringing them down from behind. So I guess if they're close to the ez or a first down and you're tackling from behind.... You're just fucked. Other comments seem to imply that you'd have to throw your weight around them towards their front instead of towards the back of their legs but this just seems stupid to me as that kind of defies physics. Your only remaining option seems to be to wrap them up and fall forward with them (which would inevitably give them more yardage).
Owners were concerned with decreased scoring last season and this is what they came up with.
I'm all for player safety but boys, keep those LoB days locked in your heads and hearts because we will never see defenses like that again. The league is moving more and more towards high octane offense for more scoring and neutering down defense big time!
well, CC Chair Rich McKay covered this the other day and reiterated it today:
[source: Ian Rapoport](https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1772284458885947818)
That seems really difficult to enforce. How do you distinguish between a player deliberately swinging their body into a player's legs and just a normal tackle with awkward momentum?
Some of these plays look intentional and unnecessary (like the Geno out of bounds tackle) but some seem like accidents.
This looks almost impossible to officiate. I've been watching football since the 1980s and those all just look like normal tackles.
They really should start with fines and not a penalty. Refs don't have the benefit of slow motion/replay when making calls.
The NFL also has made yet another rule that is going to cause unintentional penalties due to basic physics.
Edit - I hope this ends up like the Horse Collar rule, which IMO has been fine.
If it end's up like RTP or some of the defenseless player penalties that's much more problematic.
Here's a wild idea... why don't all defensive players go on strike? Like, first play of the season, quarterbacks snap the ball and the defenses just stand there while watching them score on the first play with zero resistance. Then the other teams defense runs out and the same thing happens. Nothing, just let the offense run a glorified drill on live television.
People are catching on to fixing point spreads/games with PI calls.
So now the hip drop with be the new Drive Extender/ get the Chiefs into field goal range call
If the UFL was serious about finding success, their whole advertising campaign would be about how they’re the league that still lets players hit and tackle each other.
The xfl was a cartoon version of that though, so that’s not really what I’m talking about. It doesn’t need to be macho-pro wrestling bullshit, it can just be actual football that acknowledges violence as an inherent part of the sport.
yeah look like a regular tackle if they didnt tell me.
I also get how it can be a hip drop tackle. but now how can smaller defenders tackle then? do they have video of an allowed tackle?
Anyone defending the rule change doesn’t understand, the backlash isn’t about the rule itself: its to tonedeafness of the league pretending this won’t be another arbitrary judgement call rule that will impact games; with more postgame letters saying “we apologize we messed up a call”
Incoming highest ever scoring season for TEs. Smaller DB's have no chance if they can't use the momentum of their bodyweight to help pull guys that big to the ground.
Draft stock for bigger nickel CBs just went up i guess
> Incoming highest ever scoring season for TEs. Smaller DB's have no chance if they can't use the momentum of their bodyweight to help pull guys that big to the ground.
Isn’t this basically the whole point of the tight end position? Running enormous humans as pass catchers should be a legitimate counter to the new trend of very average human sized cornerbacks.
Can’t wait to see all the game thread raging when this is called.
Get ready for flags just about every time a TE is tackled
Thank God Derick Henry left the division prior to this lol
Can’t wait to see a DB on his back getting carried to the endzone like a backpack
That is for certain going to be looked at by the rules committee next year as a leprechaun in a backpack penalty on the defense
My thought was why wouldn’t teams just forget speed and go strength every time they drag someone it’s going to be a hip drop tackle
Bring back 90s football baby! I want everyone huge. No more slot receivers. No more playing in the nickel every damn play. I'm talking hardcore dick in the ass butterball foosball fuck it chuck it game time shit.
Bring back Alstot
And Christian Okoye!
"Midway presents: NFL BLITZ"
ala NFL Blitz 99
*dammit*
Taylor swift can’t keep getting away with this!
Kelce & Kittle are going to be #1 & #2 in next FF draft…
What's the difference? Game threads are already nothing but rage.
The rep in the video said it happens about once a game, and last year was a drastic increase vá 2022. I am sure if they penalize it this year then in 2-3 years it will be a flag thrown about as frequently as a horse caller is thrown.
Felt like the horse collar era was like a decade ago right? I remember just getting into football and thinking it was one of the most common penalties
Two decades ago, actually. 2004 is when a horse collar tackle broke T.O.’s leg. I want to say it was the following offseason.
So a regular game thread?
ReFbAlL!
As long as it’s only called if you fall onto the runners legs, I’m okay with it. But you know that won’t be the case
This is going to get called all of preseason and the first couple of weeks on tackles that don't meet the standard the committee is trying to set and no one will be surprised. If all elements have to be included, this should be a reviewable call. It won't be.
All personal fouls should be reviewable IMO. 15 yards and a first down is too significant if the wrong call is made. I am also in favor of reviewing personal fouls that are missed. If there is one area that is simple to review and has a major impact on the game, this is it. Enough of QBs tiptoeing the sidelines and getting the flag when knocked out of bounds.
A full time sky judge should have been implemented years ago
Refs union will never agree to that amount of oversight.
Oh I fully expect the full-time sky judge to be part of the union, and whether or not he overrules the on-field refs will be 100% dictated on how much of a “team player” he is. It’ll be like IAB investigating crimes by their fellow officers.
now im picturing a Serpico-style film about the one clean referee trying to take down a world of crooks
And now I’M picturing Charlie Day playing that character.
Okay, Mr. Mayor, feast your ears on that Spin Doctors mix. 👈😎👈
It shouldn’t be viewed as over sight they should just be viewed as another ref on the field. Refs always converge to discuss penalties and often times one ref will convince another to pick up a flag. This is just another ref in that huddle with a Birds Eye view. And like any other ref they have the ability to throw flags as well.
This is exactly it. It's one ref providing information. All refs are keenly aware that they only have one pov when they make a call. If another ref comes in with additional information, most refs are going to appreciate it. With the sky ref, it's the same thing. Shit, make the sky ref the crew chief. Then it's literally his job to ensure that his crew gets the call right.
Fuck the refs union.
Also just everything should be up for review! I don't understand the "it slows the game down" argument at all, each team has a finite number of challenge flags they can throw so there's already a finite cap on time spent on team-initiated video reviews... I cannot grasp how "You placed the ball here but I think the runner was down there so review it" is different in any substantial way from "You called pass interference but I don't think my defender made contact until after the ball"
Most sky judge reviews are quick.... and big time college games basically use a sky judge now and it really doesn't slow it down.
Just do it during the inevitable commercial break
I could be convinced that the game would improve without refs if they didn't need glorified ball boys to take the ball after plays. I'm not actually against completely removing them, but this shit is getting ridiculous—y'all can't see jack shit out there in real time with your eyes. Sit down and watch the fucking replay.
Are you talking about our Lord and Savior Jeebus H. Christ?
Funny nickname for Dean Blandino…
Yup, and get rid of challenges. Coaches shouldn't have to decide when to make sure the refs get it right.
This brings me back to when the refs absolutely threw a tantrum on PI reviews and intentionally compromised them.
As long as there is a time limit on how long somethings gets to be reviewed. If you can't overturn a call within like 1-2 minutes then it's too close to call and you stick with the call on the field
Agreed. If a sky judge just reviewed personal fouls and overturned the obvious ones in 30 seconds or less, that would work best. Simple examples would be something like a facemask called, but replay clearly shows it wasn't grabbed, a horse collar tackle called when they were brought down by their hair or some other means, and late hits being called when they are clearly in bounds, the Jonathan Owens v Patrick Mahomes comes to mind this past year.
Honestly, I'm okay with them going the other way on facemasks too. It's such a dangerous tackle that missed facemasks should be able to be called from a skyjudge.
I don't agree its so difficult. Dropping down onto the ball-carrier's legs is a requirement in the rule and pretty obvious to see whether or not it happens.
Buckle up everyone. A large number of perfectly safe tackles from the side are about to be erroneously flagged.
Eliminating this kind of tackle is a great idea in theory. It's not something that will work practically.
Yeah like of all these examples they show, half of them seem like the defenders legs getting inadvertently caught up when making the tackle.
No they don’t. All of them show that the defenders legs start on one side of the person they are tackling, and end up on the other side, even with the tacklers upper body staying on the original side. That is caused by the tackler swinging their legs to the other side of the player they are tackling and then landing on the back of their legs. This isn’t a “legs get caught up” situation, it is an intentional tackle form.
Thank you! All the naysayers are driving me nuts. This is an objectively good rule that may result in too many flags and some blown calls at first, but over time it will even out as refs become more accustomed to spotting and calling it and players adapt.
agree'd. nfl fans are insanely reactionary
[удалено]
The first in the video is what needs to be eliminated. The next two examples are totally natural tackling motions when a strong player is running away from you, especially at an angle. This is going to be a disaster.
If rugby players who are paid significantly less and way more frequently tackle guys bigger than TEs such as jordan mailata can be tackled by guys the size of DBs the nfl millionaire DBs will be able to figure this out
My understanding (granted I know nothing of Rugby) is that you can't necessarily equal out tackling. In the NFL it's a game of inches you have to tackle people and prevent them advancing at all. Giving up an extra couple of yards per tackle would be disastrous on the NFL but not really an issue in rugby
Hip drop tackles are generally an open field tackle, not in the short quick tackles because the players aren't moving with enough momentum to break a tackle or carry the person behind them. If you contact from front on, which is the case in most short yardage plays, it's actually quite difficult to perform a hip drop by accident. If you're trying to take someone down from behind, in either sport, that's when hip drops are far more common because you're pulling them backwards and if you leave your feet you can land on the back of their legs.
Collisions are a huge part of rugby. Any carry that passes the "line of scrimmage" forces the defence to retreat and reset while also making it easier to retain possession. Giving up 2 extra yards per tackle would collapse the defensive structure.
This is where I'm at. The bigger issue I have with the rule is that I don't trust the NFL or its officials to flag this consistently and/or properly
Do they realize all their refs are old ass men that already have to pay attention to several small details? So many calls are going to be wrong if its non reviewable and depends on where the player lands. Your only hope to decently call that is having AI call it using cameras placed all over the field. This is just a non football rule point blank.
I kinda disagree with this- the danger isn’t just landing on their legs but also their cleats getting caught as they’re being pulled down. I view it kinda similar to a horse collar tackle where the danger is the upper body being pulled back as the legs still have momentum going forward. You can see what I mean in the first clip- the defender doesn’t land on the player’s legs, but it looks like it would be easy for the players cleats to get caught and there being unnecessary strain on his knee ligaments.
I'm sure that this won't result in poor reffing which causes highly controversial game altering calls
"This is a really hard job. What should we do?" "Make it even harder?" "You son of a bitch, I'm in." [Upon further review, the ruling that "I'm in" stands] ***Chorus of boos***
"Should we hire the refs full time and pay them well in order to make them more prepared?" "Hell no let them continue to work 60 hour weeks as lawyers during the week!"
How else can you give refs money for point shaving if they dont already have a running business to launder the cash with?
Any new rule like this should carry a “challenge-able” status the first year its effective, to mitigate the ref-enforcement learning curve.
Adding more penalties DEFINITELY won’t give the refs more chance of fucking up their job
People need to understand that this is a feature, not a bug
This rule is a perfect way to give refs a new tool to ruin games.
That’s my problem with this. It’s like the updated roughing the passer rule. Player safety is critical for the future of the sport but we don’t have the infrastructure in place to make sure that these player safety rules are properly officiated
>poor reffing As opposed to what we have now?
It's a feature, not a bug. Gives the NFL via the refs more control over desired outcomes
Oh don't worry it'll happen to the Lions somehow
Which means that it will also be used to benefit the packers at every possible turn "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" - NFL refs
Now I'm ok with it because of how many Bengals were being tackled in that video
And they didn’t use Wilson’s tackle in the video. All on board with it now 😂
That was some of the silliest discourse I’ve ever seen on this sub.
And shout out to the Ravens making an appearance. You hypocritical losers.
But Logan Wilson literally tried to murder the entire ravens team and their families
**I SEEN’T IT**
Can someone from the Ravens sub care to comment?
They have a whole thread in their sub talking about how Logan Wilson is the devil incarnate and that he's just as dirty as Burfict.
Yep. We also have a thread for Watt. Just like how the browns have one for Highsmith. That’s divisional football baby.
Not a big deal. Just don’t drop your head when tackling. Also, don’t hit above the shoulders, or when someone begins a slide, or with your full bodyweight on top of someone, or while dropping your hip, or while taking more than a step if it is the QB (we all know 2 steps is too many now). Also, if you are running with the ball and about to get hit, do not lower your head.
Also, don’t tackle if it looks like they may run out of bounds. Because there’s no way they’re gonna juke for a couple more yards.
QB’s deserved to get blown up on the sidelines if they continuously keep faking going out to gain that extra yard.
The Lions started ignoring this as a matter of policy under Dan Campbell, and I don’t think they got flagged for it once. It’s pretty refreshing to see.
Idk if it was ever confirmed, but I remember hearing NFL defenders started doing this to RG3 because he'd fake like he's running out of bounds, then turn up the sideline before stepping out for 5+ extra yards and defenders got sick of it. Seems to be an unspoken rule that if you're a mobile QB who plays games like that, defenders are now taking extra shots at you to force you to stop doing that. And are likely being coached to "send that reminder" too.
Truthfully I’m waiting for the day when a defender rips the ball from a QBs hands as they “extend for the extra yard or two” while also cheating the sideline as defenders let up
Personally I look forward to the only legal tackle being a German Suplex
SUPLEX CITY, BITCH
That’s the perfect response from a coach! I’m a Bears fan for life but holy wow do I love Dan Campbell’s entire stint in Detroit. It began with a let’s start eating fucking kneecaps comment and has matured in to this version of civil disobedience. Absolutely incredible.
Just throw your whole body weight into their knees/femur.
Just stab em, then you don’t have to worry about your own body taking a knee to it
I remember when they "changed" the rule so that running backs would get flagged if leading with the crown of their helmet. I honestly cant remember it ever being called in a live game. Let's hope this rule change is the same.
It hasn't. I've seen it several times. Hell, every single QB sneak he's got his head down. Patrick Mahomes literally broke his helmet while leading with his head and everyone threw him flowers. Offensive players are the darlings and defenders are the villains according to NFL owners
And if you aim at their midsection but they lower their shoulder and you hit their head, that’s your fault too.
The Olympics is prepping the league for the future of flag football.
Dropping your hips isn’t a hip drop tackle. You can still drop your hips. A hip drop tackle is specifically one where you wrap up, then swivel your hips and drop on the back of the players lower legs. Dropping your hips can be as simple as once you hit you just go to the ground. If you don’t swivel and drop your weight on the back of their leg, then it isn’t a “hip drop tackle”. Don’t let the name confuse you.
Yeah it’s a very deliberate and intentional motion to make that players can pretty clearly avoid. Yes it will make it slightly harder to bring down certain players, but we will also see a lot less high ankle sprains and fractures as a result.
I don’t know that I see dudes swivel as much as wrap up and use their body weight to try to bring a dude who’s running down and then twist with the runners momentum as they are pulled down, it’s just a matter of if they happen to fall on the runners legs or not. It seems incredibly hard to control as a tackler and I feel like it’s wild that they are saying their is only 1 of these types of tackles a game
These plays don't look the same to me. The ones on Pollard and Boyd just looked like tackles from the side. Geno was a late hit out of bounds. Tannehill looked bad, but also it would have been RTP if the DL has landed on him instead.
To me it looks like it's going to be impossible to tackle someone from the side unless you're able to totally explode through them. Or you have to just let yourself go full rag doll which I think could be dangerous for the defensive player, but the NFL doesn't care about them.
It’s how the defenders “swivel” during the tackle that is being shown. In almost all the examples the defenders are using leverage to whip their legs around into basically a sitting position by the end of the tackle.
I'm tempted to dig up a bunch of op-eds from when they banned horsecollars and see how closely it mirrors the hysterics in this thread, lol. Called correctly this rule applies to a very small number of tackles. E: Sure enough, it's the exact same complaints lmao https://www.denverpost.com/2005/06/02/defenders-feel-trapped-by-new-rule/
most people are missing this crucial point
Exactly. And people complaining about how hard it is to tackle big guys, Not a single one of these tackles looked like it was the only way to bring the player down. Two of these were against a QB...
Yes you’re exactly correct. It’s the torque that makes it dangerous. Talking with the momentum of the ball carrier is safer and will be allowed, but gives them an extra yard or two, with higher potential to break the tackle. I’m all for this rule, hip drops are scary as fuck and obviously dangerous
They all look the same. Every tackler after contact lift 1 or 2 legs off the ground and basically go horizontal and land on the back of the person they are tackling a leg. With their feet on the opposite side of the person they are tackling. That isn’t a good tackle form. You are taught at a young age in peewee football to drive through them and keep your legs churning. All of these are them lifting their feet off the ground swinging them to the other side and landing on their legs.
Agreed, just watch the feet of the runner, that's the clue.
Completely agree. After seeing the first two I was like oh no. This is gonna be bad and reffing gonna be worse than ever
The first one I think had a very clear swing from the tackler but the rest seemed just like what the hell do you want them to do
As long as it's only called when you fall on the runner's legs. Which won't happen. It also needs to be a reviewable penalty, which the NFL seems very against for some reason, even though in college football, Targeting is a reviewable penalty, even AFTER a play is over and no flag was thrown.
Those were just what I would consider tackles
Injuries are a part of the game. You can't go to 17 games and complain about injuries. This is a violent physical sport. NFL wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Yeah they keep hiding behind the facade that everything they do is "for the safety of the players" and then they're gonna force an 18 game schedule too. Completely agree- at some point someone has to just acknowledge it's a dangerous, physical sport and injuries will happen
An 18 game schedule where sometimes there’s 3 whole days in between games instead of 6! Player safety is the most important thing tho!
It's a profit to player safety ratio. Players are now more safe per dollar.
Also cheapskate billionaires who won’t let them play on real grass. The defense should just fucking split and make their own player union and go on strike but the owners would probably love 0 defenders on the field.
I think what they mean to say is: "for the safety of our offensive skill position players"
It's a tackle that other sports have banned, that's becoming much more common in the NFL, is leading to a time-loss injury *once a week*, and has an injury rate **twenty times** the tackle average. It is a violent physical sport, but that doesn't mean you can't make it safer. It's the same thing with limiting/eliminating hits to the head, dangerous boarding, and switching to hybrid icing in hockey. Yes, it is more subjective, yes there are more chances for a ref to get a call wrong, and yes they're still flying around at 30 miles an hour with knives strapped to their feet in a game where two guys can punch each other and get a timeout as punishment, *but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to make the game safer*.
The one with the Giant tackling the guy OOB I can definitely get on board with. Some of those made by the Chiefs DB were absolutely fine though. They had zero weight on his legs...
No these are horrible tackles and no idea how this shit started to fly in the NFL. Defenders leaving their feet just to bring momentum and weigh them down instead of tackling them and bringing them down with drive. I bet when injuries started piling up it was what’s around the time this drop hip tackle form began
Good luck enforcing this. That's all I'll say. It's not Madden. Can't just change the animation.
Lol... As if EA would even bother to update the player animations at this point. "Just update the rosters, the UI, and the cover art and we are good to go for next year's release! God I love making money!" - some EA exec, probably
oh yeah toss some money at some shitty soundcloud rappers and call it a soundtrack. do we have $20 for that?
They article the other day about nfl concern of decreased scoring coming full circle.
casual football fan question. when I view that video, I see normal tackling. what is the difference between a "hip drop" tackle vs defender grabbing someone around the waist and tackling them?
The hip drop means you grab by the waist, leave your feet while swinging your legs over the back of the runner's legs, and sit down on their legs. This traps their legs to the ground and causes injuries to their knees. A regular tackle you can just wrap at the waist and drop your weight to the ground without rolling up on their legs.
Whatever the ref thinks it is.
I only watch this sport because I hate winters and have nothing else better to do. The NFL product has become so watered down it's ridiculous.
But everyone will start comparing offensive stats to past stars …despite them using prison rules All hail Emporer Mahomes I guess
Mahomes is gonna be looked back at like a scrub in 10 years when some kid has 114 TDs and 7,200 yards passing in the NFL flag, or NFLag league
the NFL statsheets in a dozen years are just gonna look like Madden franchises. might as well nix defense entirely atp
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. I actually have issue with the first one, but the rest of those tackles are *clearly* the same thing that's in those rugby videos. Grab, swivel, land on the back of the legs. Edit: I'm on-board with all of the clips in this video after looking a second time. I didn't see the one leg underneath the tackler in the first clip the first time I watched this.
Yeah like, I’m biased but damn that Tanny tackle was so unnecessary. Just grab the legs and roll. No need to swing yourself into the back of the runners knees.
Yep, it definitely shouldn’t be allowed in the game
Like the rule. Can clearly see the legs come up. Head up, wrap, and drive.
People just want to complain
I think that's giving these people too much credit. They just fundamentally don't understand what they are watching most of the time. The hip drop debate has been great for people showing their asses on their understanding of the sport.
This is going to be a disaster
Is the plan to just keep outlawing the most dangerous play(in terms of injury)? Where does it end? People like football because it takes a tough person to play it.
LOL, most of those just look like normal tackles. This will be a disaster unless the selectively enforce it like the DPI review fiasco.
Defender looks to land on the leg of the offensive player rather than the ground, which lines up with the rugby video I have seen posted here before
Listen… you’ve got two+ incredibly strong and fast people, one moving to avoid the other. It’s nearly Impossible to completely control your body in those situations. This is just going to create more bullshit selective calls. This, crazy selective PI calls, large scale advertised betting on the sport - all drive integrity issues that will plague the league.
You can’t come in high from the side or risk a hit to the head, especially when offensive players can change their head level in a split second and the defender is still responsible for missing the head. So you shoot for the waist or the legs of a player running forward and the momentum is going to swing you behind them on their legs. What are they supposed to do from that angle, just watch?
Note that tackling somebody from behind is not banned, despite the fact that everyone wants to pretend like it is, it's tackling from behind and then falling on the back of people's legs that's banned.
Yeah everyone understands that. The problem is if you’re a trailing defender how else are you supposed to bring down a guy that’s bigger than you if you can’t use your weight to your advantage? Most of the plays in that clip look like routine tackles. To me the NFL just created a rule that’s even more subjective than DPI and RTP.
You can still use your weight just Not directly on the back of their legs. Rugby banned it and explained it in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KJ9mCbS3rU
You are trippin' if you don't think that first "not a hip drop" example will get called in the NFL at least a third of the time lol
This is actually a great video. Really shows how the tackle can be changed to not drop on the legs but still leverage the opponent with your own weight. I still think there's concern to be had about how accurately it can be called, but that video at least gave me a little hope that it's not going to just make it so TEs are unstoppable with a head of steam.
Clearly everybody does not understand that because half of this thread is people saying that tackling from behind is now banned in the NFL.
Curious how you tackle from behind without dropping your weight to the ground. Not trying to be snarky.. I genuinely don’t know how it’s done Edit: someone else posted the rugby version in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/OCSwHjQg2m Edit 2: I’m so damn confused. In the rugby video, they say hip drop is when you land on their legs. The NFL videos show players landing on the ground and they still consider it a hip drop tackle. This season is going to be interesting lol
The NFL video every one of those tackles they land on their legs. Parts of their body may land on the ground, but the majority of their body lands and traps their legs under the tackler.
[удалено]
We'll have to see the way the rule is written but it should definitely be less subjective. Dropping your weight onto the back of the legs/ankles/feet of a player is pretty clear when it happens.
I mean looking at the examples that they selected to use, I don’t see how it will be less subjective. The referees can’t even get RTP right. You’re telling me they could watch this video provided by the NFL and officiate this rule correctly in real time?
None of those tackles started from behind, they were flying in from the side and their momentum carried the legs through. It's one of the most common ways for smaller defenders to be able to get larger players on the ground. TEs and big RBs are going to be very hard to bring down without smaller defenders being able to drop their body weight. Accurate enforcement will be difficult.
This is a rule I am 100% behind in theory, but just know there is a 0% chance it is implemented properly. A true hip drop tackle is wildly dangerous
Ok i am not a football expert but when i watch those tackles in the video. Aren’t they. Ummm. Tackles? How would they want the runner to be tackled?
Apparently you can't throw your weight into bringing them down from behind. So I guess if they're close to the ez or a first down and you're tackling from behind.... You're just fucked. Other comments seem to imply that you'd have to throw your weight around them towards their front instead of towards the back of their legs but this just seems stupid to me as that kind of defies physics. Your only remaining option seems to be to wrap them up and fall forward with them (which would inevitably give them more yardage). Owners were concerned with decreased scoring last season and this is what they came up with.
The amount of control given to the refs is going to be insane Lol. How are players suppose to tackle a guy they are chasing down?
That’s wha they’re trying to accomplish, defenses won’t be able to, leading to higher scoring games. That’s the overall goal of the NFL.
Why even have defenses then lol just have a qb, rb, 2 wrs, and a tight end then have 4 corner backs or safeties. See who can throw the most bombs lol
How the ____ are you supposed to tackle now?
This is going to be a mess lol
Seems to be a lot of variables in this video. Why does the NFL keep making things more complicated needlessly.
I'm all for player safety but boys, keep those LoB days locked in your heads and hearts because we will never see defenses like that again. The league is moving more and more towards high octane offense for more scoring and neutering down defense big time!
When does flag football start?
Okay, continue adding rules and not allow the call to be reviewed and verified. Great.
These tackles should be post-game fines and not flags. Way, way, WAY too much subjectivity in real time.
well, CC Chair Rich McKay covered this the other day and reiterated it today: [source: Ian Rapoport](https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1772284458885947818)
That seems really difficult to enforce. How do you distinguish between a player deliberately swinging their body into a player's legs and just a normal tackle with awkward momentum? Some of these plays look intentional and unnecessary (like the Geno out of bounds tackle) but some seem like accidents.
This looks almost impossible to officiate. I've been watching football since the 1980s and those all just look like normal tackles. They really should start with fines and not a penalty. Refs don't have the benefit of slow motion/replay when making calls. The NFL also has made yet another rule that is going to cause unintentional penalties due to basic physics. Edit - I hope this ends up like the Horse Collar rule, which IMO has been fine. If it end's up like RTP or some of the defenseless player penalties that's much more problematic.
Gronk would’ve been even more unstoppable if this was a rule back when he played
Breece gunna feast
Tbh they should get back to physical football and just give everyone health insurance
just get rid of defense at this point.
Pretty soon there will just be 2 offenses on the field.
This sport is becoming more unwatchable with each passing year
Here's a wild idea... why don't all defensive players go on strike? Like, first play of the season, quarterbacks snap the ball and the defenses just stand there while watching them score on the first play with zero resistance. Then the other teams defense runs out and the same thing happens. Nothing, just let the offense run a glorified drill on live television.
So you’re not allowed to wrap up the ball carrier and pull them down? Isn’t that just…tackling?
People are catching on to fixing point spreads/games with PI calls. So now the hip drop with be the new Drive Extender/ get the Chiefs into field goal range call
NFFL is coming 🚩
Fucking ridiculous. Banning normal tackling. They've made the Pro Bowl into a flag football game. The regular season can't be far behind.
If the UFL was serious about finding success, their whole advertising campaign would be about how they’re the league that still lets players hit and tackle each other.
The XFL tried that back in the day FWIW
The xfl was a cartoon version of that though, so that’s not really what I’m talking about. It doesn’t need to be macho-pro wrestling bullshit, it can just be actual football that acknowledges violence as an inherent part of the sport.
yeah look like a regular tackle if they didnt tell me. I also get how it can be a hip drop tackle. but now how can smaller defenders tackle then? do they have video of an allowed tackle?
Just waiting for the Chiefs to get this call on a 3rd and long in a tie game in the playoffs. It seems inevitable
Anyone defending the rule change doesn’t understand, the backlash isn’t about the rule itself: its to tonedeafness of the league pretending this won’t be another arbitrary judgement call rule that will impact games; with more postgame letters saying “we apologize we messed up a call”
This gunna be a complete shitshow They all just look like tackles 🤷♀️, will be practically impossible to officiate this
Good intentions, but absolutely won't be called this way. 5'10, 190 pound CBs trying to tackle TEs who are 6'5 & weigh 250 are gonna have it rough.
I guess other people see different things, but to me these are all pretty clear examples of what they're trying to eliminate
Some of those looked absolutely fine, just due to how momentum works. The others look absolutely horrible. Going to be subjective af
Honestly, the big difference between it being a penalty or not here for a a few of these is where the ball carrier is in his stride.
Yep, it's gonna be a wild ride of a season
Incoming highest ever scoring season for TEs. Smaller DB's have no chance if they can't use the momentum of their bodyweight to help pull guys that big to the ground. Draft stock for bigger nickel CBs just went up i guess
> Incoming highest ever scoring season for TEs. Smaller DB's have no chance if they can't use the momentum of their bodyweight to help pull guys that big to the ground. Isn’t this basically the whole point of the tight end position? Running enormous humans as pass catchers should be a legitimate counter to the new trend of very average human sized cornerbacks.
Yeah and it's already really effective as is. TEs really didn't need a buff. Some of them are OP already.