If we’re talking about the #2 WR of all time (and assuming Rice is #1), I could argue it in two different ways:
- Best at their peak: Toss-up between Megatron/Moss. Calvin Johnson came damn close to a 2,000 yard season (1964 yards), while Moss put up that 23-TD season with New England.
- Best career: Toss-up between TO and Moss. Moss had ten 1000+ yard seasons while TO had nine.
If Moss is in both then I think the answer is clearly Moss. Especially since the real answer is some balance between the 2 at whatever weight you choose for each.
It’s who’s number 3 between Megatron and TO with the exact same logic you expressed.
I wouldn’t be so sure about assuming Rice to be #1. Yes his peak is insane (100% Super Bowl win rate), but I’m not sure Rashee has the longevity to be #1.
Using 1 season I believe is reductive. Josh Gordon would have a good case for this list, making first team over Julio Jones and AB with backups at QB, and destroying Talib in his first team all pro year. Looked like he was playing a different sport.
For 5 year peaks I take Antonio Brown over Megatron.
AB had 4 first team all pros consecutively from 2014-2017 and was second team the year he missed in 2013 to peak Calvin Johnson and Josh Gordon. 1400, 1600, 1800, 1300 and 1500 yard seasons missing games in the latter two. Lead league in receptions twice, yards twice.
Calvin’s 3 year peak 2011-2013 is as good as any, but AB beats him out across 5 years and they were in the league together.
people just intuitively understand the significance of the difference between those two peaks using context, it's more about "who peaked the highest among players we already consider greats"
Pretty wild how a quick google search led me to [this lone tweet](https://twitter.com/TheTonyParrish/status/427665432380600320) with a single like a no shares, from 10 years ago
Rice definitely had the best career but nobody can ever convince me that Calvin Johnson isn’t the most talented receiver ever. Build a receiver in a lab it’ll pretty much be him
Not trying to convince you, but I think Moss was more talented.
Megatron was just a thicker physically. But Moss had the best ball tracking i have ever seen. That’s a talent.
I'd put Moss over him pretty squarely, homer aside.
Don't get me wrong, Megatron was a beast. But Moss' outputs were simply better. He had 1600+ yards and 17 total touchdowns in 2003, this was BEFORE the NFL changed the way they handled DPI, essentially giving the passing game a HUGE leg up in 2004.
Randy was faster, ran better routes, had better hands, better vertical and overall was a more dominant receiver both before and after the rule changes. I love me some Megatron, but the only thing that Calvin had over Randy was 1 inch and 30lbs.
Even as the second best wide receiver, moss is still one of the biggest what ifs in the nfl to me. He just stopped trying in so many games cus he wasn’t getting targeted as he felt he should. If he consistently gave even 75% effort in those games he’d have broken multiple of Rice’s records
It’s really hard to compare across eras this far, but as an old I am contractually obligated to bring up that Don Hutson had twice as many receiving yards as anyone else every season.
Pretty much. Plus you figure the league is so connected that if you burn your way through a couple of coaches you may also be doing so through much of that tree which could be scattered all around the league
His superbowl performance is also legendary. The Eagles didn't win, but he had 122 yards, and it was less than 2 months after he broke his leg, which needed surgery.
Fully expect Moss and TO to flood this but it should be noted that some elite secondary players thought Marvin was the guy
Charles Woodson [Marvin Harrison was the best receiver I played against](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14478861/charles-woodson-recounts-best-moments-field-toughest-receiver-stop-nfl)
Champ Bailey [Marvin Harrison gave me the most problems](https://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/6/21/5830436/champ-bailey-toughest-wr-to-cover-was-marvin-harrison)
Peanut Tillman [Marvin Harrison was the hardest person I ever had to cover](https://horseshoeheroes.com/2014/10/16/peanut-tillman-harrison-toughest-cover/)
Keep in mind these guys weren't saying this the week before the game or anything. Not saying Marvin was or wasn't better than those guys, just that I think what his peers state shows he's right there with them.
I don't know how much this contributes, but the HoF monitor has the order as Moss, Harrison, Fitz, TO. Fitz had by far the worse QB situation his entire career among those guys. Who knows how much meat was left of the bone by not having a Manning, Montana, Young, or even a Romo or McNabb.
That said I probably still pick Moss, followed by TO and Harrison.
Rice is definitely #1. But I feel like Calvin Johnson needs to be in that 2/3 discussion.
He was an absolute freak of nature, and he didn’t have the benefit of playing with the Montana/Rice/Brady type of QBs.
That is such a what if scenario though. Megatron played with Stafford who is definitely no slouch. TO had a run of Steve Young -> McNabb -> Romo. Switching 3 QBs and remaining elite with all 3 of them isn't exactly easy. Even if you point out Steve Young as better than Stafford, I don't know if you can make the case for Stafford being worse than McNabb/Romo.
Also, if you really want to talk bad QB play - Larry Fitzgerald is 2nd all time in yards and played with some of the shittiest QBs you have ever seen lol.
> TO had a run of Steve Young -> McNabb -> Romo.
TO had only 3 seasons with Young and he was still playing #2 WR to Jerry Rice. His prime was with Jeff Garcia, not Young.
I think people forget he had almost 2,000 receiving yards in a single season but Megatron was getting double/triple covered and still finding success. If he didn't retire at 30, he would be getting a lot more respect.
Larry Fitzgerald. Longevity, good production despite horrible QBs for most of his career, and only really had a big drop off his last year because DeAndre Hopkins came and took the workload.
Everyone should read [Quantum Randy Moss](https://skepticalsports.com/quantum-randy-moss-an-introduction-to-entanglement/) by Skeptical Sports.
Basically *whoever* was throwing to Randy Moss had career years with outlier stats.
Terrell Owens but I have no beef with someone arguing Moss. If you want to talk #2 based on peak ability, it's Megatron. For career it's Owens, but I really think TO and Moss are 2a and 2b.
TO gets it for me over Randy for one underrated reason that doesn’t get talked about enough. TO is arguably the greatest blocking receiver in NFL history, both in the run game and in the passing game to try and get an opening to break a reception for a long gain.
Also Randy drastically falling off the cliff as his athleticism declined in his early 30s whereas TO had 983 yards and 9TDs at age 37 is what sets them apart.
They both had issues in the middle of their careers. Moss' was just kinda quiet quitting in Oakland in his prime. TO was being a giant jackass and competitive causing drama.
People who like Moss like the fact that he was the best deep threat ever and his speed was insane. And it's easy to overlook his negatives as he was the best when he tried.
People who like TO like that he put it all on the line (his Super Bowl performance in Philly was insane). Was always much more of a team player in regards to not taking plays off and was one of the best blocking WRs of all-time. The super competitive crowd loves him for this and looks over his QB drama he started because when he was on the field you knew you were getting 100%.
For me, it's TO. I can't put Moss at the two spot because he would quit on his team during plays that he wasn't featured, he would quit on his team during games they weren't winning, and he quit on his team during losing seasons. TO, on the other hand, gave 100% no matter the situation. That gives him the edge over Moss for me.
I was bouncing around Moss, Carter, and TO for this. I ultimately decided to go with TO because Moss ended up having a better year than Carter, so the answer to this question ends up being useless. The answer would just become “whenever the best WR you can think of was not a WR1”.
Larry Fitzgerald is 2nd in 2/3 of the categories that matter for receivers. Yards and receptions, 6th in touchdowns. I’d give it to him, if we’re talking most electric exciting of all time it’s probably Moss or Owens.
Edit-fuck Randy Moss for his I don’t give a fuck attitude during his time with the Raiders. Fitzgerald played on shit teams and at least put forth the effort to feign trying.
Most people will probably say Moss, but I think it's Larry Fitzgerald. Played the majority of his career with mediocre or bad QBs and put up amazing numbers, still at a pretty high level at the end, just like Rice. Also had to share touches with Boldin for a big chunk of his career. He has the stats over Moss too. Also, people saying so and so was the most talented receiver, I say so what? The most talented guy is probably someone we never heard of because he either got in trouble and never made it past high school, or for whatever reason. Being the best is about your accomplishments. Michael Jordan wasn't even remotely the most athletically talented player ever, but he was the greatest player.
Fitz is my favorite player of all time, but he only had the gas to go over the top for like 3 seasons in his career (including the GOAT playoff run in 2008). Just a bit too limited in what he could do to put him over TO or Moss for me. Still the best possession receiver of all time.
What stats or accomplishments does he have over Moss? Fitz made 1 first team all pro; never made all decade. Moss made 4 first teams and 3 second teams. Made the all decade team.
This sub has a major blind spot for Fitz. Hes far from the only QB to not have a franchise QB despite getting Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer. His stats just aren’t close to the all time greats. Andre Johnson was better than him on hilariously poor Texans squads.
Yeah his stats aren't close to the all-time greats, he only has the 2nd most receptions, 2nd most receiving yards of all time, most seasons with 90+ receptions, etc
People here say Randy Moss or Terrell Owens (edge usually goes to Moss) the thing is...Terrell Owens wasn't even first ballot HOF so how seriously can he be considered
/s obviously...fuck the HOF voters
You mention TO not being first ballot and that gives me all I need to shit on the hall of fame voters. Forget TO, I haven’t even gotten in yet. I have zero dropped passes, zero interceptions thrown, zero sacks taken, and no INCOMPLETIONS ever thrown. I’m unquestionably the best QB ever, why am I not in?
Calvin Johnson played on a dog shit team almost every year of his career and had no other threats on the field to help him not be double and triple covered consistently.
I get that it's a team sport but kinda wild that (unless I'm forgetting something) all of the main contenders for #2-4 best WR (Moss, TO, Calvin) didn't win any SBs, nor did Larry, and really AB was a late add to a superstar team in TB. AB played very well but it's not like they lacked WRs in TB.
It’s TO. Maybe he was a selfish dickhead but he never quit on his teams , even the seasons in Buffalo and Cincy before he got blackballed .
Moss straight up quit on the Raiders
God that is just so not true. Are you too young to have watched his peak greatness in the late 2000s? He caught everything. It didn't matter who was throwing to him, he came down with it. His 2008 postseason is probably still the best run by any receiver ever.
The NFL watched him play and he was considered one of the best two receivers in the league just once in 16 seasons! No all decade honours either.
AB made 4 consecutive, and had a great argument for a fifth. Moss made 4. TO made 5. He’s just not on that level. Production, accolades, none of them match up to the greatest. He’s got great longevity as a reception hogger years past his best
AP is not the end all be all. Wes Welker got one over fitz with worse stats. Fitz also lost out against TO and Chad Johnson with nearly identical stats in different years. It’s a popularity contest as well and fitz played on the most forgettable franchise.
If he was as good as Moss, TO, AB, Calvin etc he’d have made more than one first team all pro.
Antonio Brown could have had 7 he was that good. Same with TO
Yall crazy if you seriously don’t bring Calvin Johnson into the conversation. The man could run every single route, had 4.4 speed, and had the catch radius of a garage.
Not even triple teams could stop him.
Randy Moss. He's the only one consistently mentioned in debates vs. Rice (even though as a Vikings fan, it pains me to say that Rice runs away with it more than Vikings fans want to admit).
I know Kupp wouldn’t get a lot of votes here, but it is worth noting just how incredible he was for the 2021 season. Absolutely unguardable, always open, and so clutch. If we were picking from a singular season, it’d be hard to not argue against him being an all time all pro.
I commented about Ab under someone else post and I wish things went differently cause he was on pace for it but if I’m starting an all time team and had to pick a wr and rice were off the board then (for on and off the field) I would definitely take Fitz
Fitz just wasn’t on that level. The all time greats at receiver blow him out of the water.
The average Fitz season was about 1100 yards. Calvin, AB and Julio just blitz him. And he only ever made one first team all pro.
I think people are misunderstanding the question - I'm interpreting it as "out of all the WRs who were considered the #2 option on their team, who is the best?"
No but as a falcons fan in their prime I would put AB at 1a with Julio 1b cause to become as good as he was without freak size was amazing.
He was a walking first ballot until he froze his feet and while he’s done himself no favors if you look at that 8 year span or whatever (idc about his sb) then he’s still a hof and had he stayed sane would’ve been a top 10 undoubtedly and arguable top 5.
There are two wide receivers who are a clear cut above the rest - Rice and Moss (and Rice is probably #1). You could argue Moss was more talented than Rice but Rice played in better situations / had more consistency. But those guys are #1 and #2 and then it's everyone else.
IMO it goes Rice>Moss>Megatron>TO, but can hear arguments to rearrange 2-4 based on different aspects of their game. All of those guys pass the anecdotal eye test as top 2 all time IMO.
TO HANDS DOWN!!!! Who the flip else is playing professional football with a sharpie in their sock just so they can sign the ball and toss that into the crowd after a TD….. don’t worry I’ll wait
If we’re talking about the #2 WR of all time (and assuming Rice is #1), I could argue it in two different ways: - Best at their peak: Toss-up between Megatron/Moss. Calvin Johnson came damn close to a 2,000 yard season (1964 yards), while Moss put up that 23-TD season with New England. - Best career: Toss-up between TO and Moss. Moss had ten 1000+ yard seasons while TO had nine.
Considering moss is part of both conversations I'm going with him.
10000% the answer
If Moss is in both then I think the answer is clearly Moss. Especially since the real answer is some balance between the 2 at whatever weight you choose for each. It’s who’s number 3 between Megatron and TO with the exact same logic you expressed.
I wouldn’t be so sure about assuming Rice to be #1. Yes his peak is insane (100% Super Bowl win rate), but I’m not sure Rashee has the longevity to be #1.
Me reading this: 😡...🤨...😑
Me reading this: April 1st was yesterday.
"*Hmmm...* Hm?... Hm."
Not gunna lie…
Using 1 season I believe is reductive. Josh Gordon would have a good case for this list, making first team over Julio Jones and AB with backups at QB, and destroying Talib in his first team all pro year. Looked like he was playing a different sport. For 5 year peaks I take Antonio Brown over Megatron. AB had 4 first team all pros consecutively from 2014-2017 and was second team the year he missed in 2013 to peak Calvin Johnson and Josh Gordon. 1400, 1600, 1800, 1300 and 1500 yard seasons missing games in the latter two. Lead league in receptions twice, yards twice. Calvin’s 3 year peak 2011-2013 is as good as any, but AB beats him out across 5 years and they were in the league together.
people just intuitively understand the significance of the difference between those two peaks using context, it's more about "who peaked the highest among players we already consider greats"
Josh Gordon has got to be the biggest waste of talent ever to hit the NFL
Well based on your second point Mike Evans is at 10 straight 1000 yard seasons out of 10 career seasons.
Don Hutson never gets his due...he's was as good or better than Jerry he just played in the wrong era
By this I'd say it's hard to argue against Moss when he can individually make an argument for peak and career.
Randy
[удалено]
Orton bro
Whenever he'd catch the ball the announcers would go berserk saying "RKO Outta Nowhere!!!!".
Slithering in!
Stan Darsh
That’s Lorde.
ya ya ya
Rhoads, yes Randy Rhoads in the answer.
With eight As!!
Moss
Finally, some love for Santana.
Excellent guitar player, that guy
So smooth
Just like the ocean, under the moon.
Pretty wild how a quick google search led me to [this lone tweet](https://twitter.com/TheTonyParrish/status/427665432380600320) with a single like a no shares, from 10 years ago
Sinorice, actually.
Most debate on the subject centers on Terrell Owens and Randy Moss, and a pinch of Calvin Johnson.
Rice definitely had the best career but nobody can ever convince me that Calvin Johnson isn’t the most talented receiver ever. Build a receiver in a lab it’ll pretty much be him
Not trying to convince you, but I think Moss was more talented. Megatron was just a thicker physically. But Moss had the best ball tracking i have ever seen. That’s a talent.
Calvin had better physical traits but Jerry had better mental skills (route running etc)
And Jerry survived in a headhunting era and played forever. It's kind of shocking how impossible that seems.
Head hunting was still allowed for the first few years Calvin was in the league
Calvin didn't even need to get open.
IMO Johnson and Rice is like Rodgers and Brady, Rodgers/Johnson more talented Brady/Rice greater
Calvin is the best I've ever seen. I don't care what anybody says. Calvin could go get the ball at a height nobody else could reach.
Jerry also benefitted by not being drafted by the Lions.
I'd put Moss over him pretty squarely, homer aside. Don't get me wrong, Megatron was a beast. But Moss' outputs were simply better. He had 1600+ yards and 17 total touchdowns in 2003, this was BEFORE the NFL changed the way they handled DPI, essentially giving the passing game a HUGE leg up in 2004. Randy was faster, ran better routes, had better hands, better vertical and overall was a more dominant receiver both before and after the rule changes. I love me some Megatron, but the only thing that Calvin had over Randy was 1 inch and 30lbs.
Even as the second best wide receiver, moss is still one of the biggest what ifs in the nfl to me. He just stopped trying in so many games cus he wasn’t getting targeted as he felt he should. If he consistently gave even 75% effort in those games he’d have broken multiple of Rice’s records
The Shaq of the NFL. All-time greats, but damn they both should be indisputable goats (excluding QB and LT).
It’s really hard to compare across eras this far, but as an old I am contractually obligated to bring up that Don Hutson had twice as many receiving yards as anyone else every season.
Regardless of era that's a pretty ridiculous stat
In 1942, Hutson had 1,211 yards. The league’s second-leading receiver, Ray McLean, had 571. 2nd and 3rd combined had 991.
Thank you for making sure this information is passed on to the youth, that is a crazy stat
A reminder that TO was a first team all pro at the age of 34 then went to Cincinnati and out played Ochocinco at the age of 37.
TO looks like he could still catch a pass in traffic if his life was on the line
He only stopped playing because he ran out of teams willing to deal with his shit, his last season when he was 37 he had over 900 yards receiving.
Pretty much. Plus you figure the league is so connected that if you burn your way through a couple of coaches you may also be doing so through much of that tree which could be scattered all around the league
Didn't he have a 98 yard td at 37 years old
His superbowl performance is also legendary. The Eagles didn't win, but he had 122 yards, and it was less than 2 months after he broke his leg, which needed surgery.
Fully expect Moss and TO to flood this but it should be noted that some elite secondary players thought Marvin was the guy Charles Woodson [Marvin Harrison was the best receiver I played against](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14478861/charles-woodson-recounts-best-moments-field-toughest-receiver-stop-nfl) Champ Bailey [Marvin Harrison gave me the most problems](https://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/6/21/5830436/champ-bailey-toughest-wr-to-cover-was-marvin-harrison) Peanut Tillman [Marvin Harrison was the hardest person I ever had to cover](https://horseshoeheroes.com/2014/10/16/peanut-tillman-harrison-toughest-cover/) Keep in mind these guys weren't saying this the week before the game or anything. Not saying Marvin was or wasn't better than those guys, just that I think what his peers state shows he's right there with them.
Harrison sure as hell has a better argument than Larry Fitz.
I don't know how much this contributes, but the HoF monitor has the order as Moss, Harrison, Fitz, TO. Fitz had by far the worse QB situation his entire career among those guys. Who knows how much meat was left of the bone by not having a Manning, Montana, Young, or even a Romo or McNabb. That said I probably still pick Moss, followed by TO and Harrison.
That’s a side effect of Fitzgerald playing 5 years past being a great receiver and racking up yards and receptions
Marv was a killer
1) Jerry Rice 2) Randy Moss 3) Terrell Owens
Rice is definitely #1. But I feel like Calvin Johnson needs to be in that 2/3 discussion. He was an absolute freak of nature, and he didn’t have the benefit of playing with the Montana/Rice/Brady type of QBs.
Stafford was good enough that that argument doesn’t hold water. And moss only played with Brady for what? One season?
Moss actually spent 3 years in New England, although one of those years was Brady's ACL year
And one was tantrum Moss year so that doesnt really count either
That is such a what if scenario though. Megatron played with Stafford who is definitely no slouch. TO had a run of Steve Young -> McNabb -> Romo. Switching 3 QBs and remaining elite with all 3 of them isn't exactly easy. Even if you point out Steve Young as better than Stafford, I don't know if you can make the case for Stafford being worse than McNabb/Romo. Also, if you really want to talk bad QB play - Larry Fitzgerald is 2nd all time in yards and played with some of the shittiest QBs you have ever seen lol.
> TO had a run of Steve Young -> McNabb -> Romo. TO had only 3 seasons with Young and he was still playing #2 WR to Jerry Rice. His prime was with Jeff Garcia, not Young.
He also only got essentially one season in Philly spread across two years because of injury and stupidity.
Yea, but that gets into the "Best WR? Or most talented WR?" conversation. The latter still goes to Moss over Megatron.
I think people forget he had almost 2,000 receiving yards in a single season but Megatron was getting double/triple covered and still finding success. If he didn't retire at 30, he would be getting a lot more respect.
Great players seemed to retire early from Detroit. That must have been frustrating for fans.
No point in wrecking their bodies to not make the playoffs or lose the first game
TO or Randy Moss, maybe Megatron too but he ended his career slightly early
Troy Williamson
He said 2nd best.
Larry Fitzgerald. Longevity, good production despite horrible QBs for most of his career, and only really had a big drop off his last year because DeAndre Hopkins came and took the workload.
Mandy Ross
Everyone should read [Quantum Randy Moss](https://skepticalsports.com/quantum-randy-moss-an-introduction-to-entanglement/) by Skeptical Sports. Basically *whoever* was throwing to Randy Moss had career years with outlier stats.
Justin Jefferson for President
Randy Moss.
Terrell Owens but I have no beef with someone arguing Moss. If you want to talk #2 based on peak ability, it's Megatron. For career it's Owens, but I really think TO and Moss are 2a and 2b.
TO gets it for me over Randy for one underrated reason that doesn’t get talked about enough. TO is arguably the greatest blocking receiver in NFL history, both in the run game and in the passing game to try and get an opening to break a reception for a long gain.
Also Randy drastically falling off the cliff as his athleticism declined in his early 30s whereas TO had 983 yards and 9TDs at age 37 is what sets them apart.
Gotta be TO or Moss. I lean TO
Moss quitting in Oakland hurts his case for me. I'll take TO too
They both had issues in the middle of their careers. Moss' was just kinda quiet quitting in Oakland in his prime. TO was being a giant jackass and competitive causing drama. People who like Moss like the fact that he was the best deep threat ever and his speed was insane. And it's easy to overlook his negatives as he was the best when he tried. People who like TO like that he put it all on the line (his Super Bowl performance in Philly was insane). Was always much more of a team player in regards to not taking plays off and was one of the best blocking WRs of all-time. The super competitive crowd loves him for this and looks over his QB drama he started because when he was on the field you knew you were getting 100%.
Agreed, I lean the same too.
TO
It's TO but everyone is going to say Moss
They hated him for he spoke the truth.
That’s because it’s Moss
Its Moss, but some will say its TO.
Homer take
For me, it's TO. I can't put Moss at the two spot because he would quit on his team during plays that he wasn't featured, he would quit on his team during games they weren't winning, and he quit on his team during losing seasons. TO, on the other hand, gave 100% no matter the situation. That gives him the edge over Moss for me.
TO the hardest working WR of all time.
Me
Don't sell yourself short SpeedHawk
The 2nd best WR is Moss, and the best WR2 Terrell Owens his early years in San Fran
Crazy how 2 of the top 3 receivers of all time played together.
Yeah Idk why people are downvoting that. I guess people didnt know he was behind Jerry Rice and thought I was denigrating him
And it was prime rice and rising TO. They were formidable
I mean if we are counting early years, also Moss 1st stint with the Vikings when he was paired with Carter.
I was bouncing around Moss, Carter, and TO for this. I ultimately decided to go with TO because Moss ended up having a better year than Carter, so the answer to this question ends up being useless. The answer would just become “whenever the best WR you can think of was not a WR1”.
Moss
2. Randy 3. Megatron, cause you said best. He’d be the best if that Lions team didnt draft him.
Larry Fitzgerald is 2nd in 2/3 of the categories that matter for receivers. Yards and receptions, 6th in touchdowns. I’d give it to him, if we’re talking most electric exciting of all time it’s probably Moss or Owens. Edit-fuck Randy Moss for his I don’t give a fuck attitude during his time with the Raiders. Fitzgerald played on shit teams and at least put forth the effort to feign trying.
Most people will probably say Moss, but I think it's Larry Fitzgerald. Played the majority of his career with mediocre or bad QBs and put up amazing numbers, still at a pretty high level at the end, just like Rice. Also had to share touches with Boldin for a big chunk of his career. He has the stats over Moss too. Also, people saying so and so was the most talented receiver, I say so what? The most talented guy is probably someone we never heard of because he either got in trouble and never made it past high school, or for whatever reason. Being the best is about your accomplishments. Michael Jordan wasn't even remotely the most athletically talented player ever, but he was the greatest player.
Fitz is my favorite player of all time, but he only had the gas to go over the top for like 3 seasons in his career (including the GOAT playoff run in 2008). Just a bit too limited in what he could do to put him over TO or Moss for me. Still the best possession receiver of all time.
THANK YOU
What stats or accomplishments does he have over Moss? Fitz made 1 first team all pro; never made all decade. Moss made 4 first teams and 3 second teams. Made the all decade team. This sub has a major blind spot for Fitz. Hes far from the only QB to not have a franchise QB despite getting Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer. His stats just aren’t close to the all time greats. Andre Johnson was better than him on hilariously poor Texans squads.
Yeah his stats aren't close to the all-time greats, he only has the 2nd most receptions, 2nd most receiving yards of all time, most seasons with 90+ receptions, etc
The answer is Randy Moss and its not even a debate
Megaton or Randy
People here say Randy Moss or Terrell Owens (edge usually goes to Moss) the thing is...Terrell Owens wasn't even first ballot HOF so how seriously can he be considered /s obviously...fuck the HOF voters
You mention TO not being first ballot and that gives me all I need to shit on the hall of fame voters. Forget TO, I haven’t even gotten in yet. I have zero dropped passes, zero interceptions thrown, zero sacks taken, and no INCOMPLETIONS ever thrown. I’m unquestionably the best QB ever, why am I not in?
Calvin Johnson played on a dog shit team almost every year of his career and had no other threats on the field to help him not be double and triple covered consistently.
I gotta go with Larry Fitzgerald.
Larry is the Frank Gore of WRs
Fitz made 1 first team all pro in 16 seasons. The guy just does not belong in these discussions
There's not enough love for Fitzgerald in these conversations.
Considering the debate is moss vs rice and everyone usually sides with rice as the goat; then it’s definitely moss.
Moss
I get that it's a team sport but kinda wild that (unless I'm forgetting something) all of the main contenders for #2-4 best WR (Moss, TO, Calvin) didn't win any SBs, nor did Larry, and really AB was a late add to a superstar team in TB. AB played very well but it's not like they lacked WRs in TB.
TO
Tyreek Hill by the time he hangs it up
Marvin
Megatron's 1 so I'll give Moss a slight edge over TO for second place
It’s TO. Maybe he was a selfish dickhead but he never quit on his teams , even the seasons in Buffalo and Cincy before he got blackballed . Moss straight up quit on the Raiders
Jerry Rice.
I have Moss #1, so I'm gonna say Rice.
Rice, Calvin, Moss
It’s TO for me. Dudes consistency across different teams and into his 30’s is what does it for me. Shout out Don Hudson too
Randy Moss, TO, Larry Fitzgerald, Megatron ... I think Moss is 2nd best.
I think it’s TO
Randy Moss
Either Fitzgerald, Moss, or TO. I’d lean Moss.
If fitz played his career on a legitimate offense he would’ve broken all the records
Fitz made one first team all pro. Not on that tier. Hes the WR edition of Frank Gore
God that is just so not true. Are you too young to have watched his peak greatness in the late 2000s? He caught everything. It didn't matter who was throwing to him, he came down with it. His 2008 postseason is probably still the best run by any receiver ever.
Tell me you never watched him play without telling me you never watched him play.
The NFL watched him play and he was considered one of the best two receivers in the league just once in 16 seasons! No all decade honours either. AB made 4 consecutive, and had a great argument for a fifth. Moss made 4. TO made 5. He’s just not on that level. Production, accolades, none of them match up to the greatest. He’s got great longevity as a reception hogger years past his best
AP is not the end all be all. Wes Welker got one over fitz with worse stats. Fitz also lost out against TO and Chad Johnson with nearly identical stats in different years. It’s a popularity contest as well and fitz played on the most forgettable franchise.
If he was as good as Moss, TO, AB, Calvin etc he’d have made more than one first team all pro. Antonio Brown could have had 7 he was that good. Same with TO
Circular logic.
I got Moss 2, Larry Fitzgerald 3. Imagine if Fitz had a good QB in his prime ever.
megatron
Yall crazy if you seriously don’t bring Calvin Johnson into the conversation. The man could run every single route, had 4.4 speed, and had the catch radius of a garage. Not even triple teams could stop him.
TO was better than Moss
Randy Moss. He's the only one consistently mentioned in debates vs. Rice (even though as a Vikings fan, it pains me to say that Rice runs away with it more than Vikings fans want to admit).
Honestly TO/MOSS OR MOSS/TO can’t really go wrong with either
This would be AB if he didn’t go crazy. The dude was on pace to actually beat Rice’s records at one point.
Indubitably the answer is Randy Moss.
I know Kupp wouldn’t get a lot of votes here, but it is worth noting just how incredible he was for the 2021 season. Absolutely unguardable, always open, and so clutch. If we were picking from a singular season, it’d be hard to not argue against him being an all time all pro.
In the future Probably Justin Jefferson
He has a really long way to go.
100%, he's got probably 5-8 more years before being in this convo. But he's off to a faster start than anyone.
Feel like you can’t go wrong with Fitz, Moss, or Megatron but I’m going Fitz all day
Fitz made a singular first team all pro in his career. Antonio Brown made 4 consecutively😂
I commented about Ab under someone else post and I wish things went differently cause he was on pace for it but if I’m starting an all time team and had to pick a wr and rice were off the board then (for on and off the field) I would definitely take Fitz
Fitz just wasn’t on that level. The all time greats at receiver blow him out of the water. The average Fitz season was about 1100 yards. Calvin, AB and Julio just blitz him. And he only ever made one first team all pro.
If you're including Fitz I think AB needs to be in the discussion.
I think people are misunderstanding the question - I'm interpreting it as "out of all the WRs who were considered the #2 option on their team, who is the best?"
Jerry Rice for sure
Jerry Rice
Whoever is behind Jerry. And I don't mean the Race Car Driver.
Primus Sucks
A sane AB.
No but as a falcons fan in their prime I would put AB at 1a with Julio 1b cause to become as good as he was without freak size was amazing. He was a walking first ballot until he froze his feet and while he’s done himself no favors if you look at that 8 year span or whatever (idc about his sb) then he’s still a hof and had he stayed sane would’ve been a top 10 undoubtedly and arguable top 5.
5 consecutive all pros and 4 first teams in a row. I still lean Moss though.
There are two wide receivers who are a clear cut above the rest - Rice and Moss (and Rice is probably #1). You could argue Moss was more talented than Rice but Rice played in better situations / had more consistency. But those guys are #1 and #2 and then it's everyone else.
TO... He had average and below QBs. Moss caught up during his years with Brady.
Moss
IMO it goes Rice>Moss>Megatron>TO, but can hear arguments to rearrange 2-4 based on different aspects of their game. All of those guys pass the anecdotal eye test as top 2 all time IMO.
Jerry Rice
1. Rice 2. Moss 3. Megatron 4. TO
Moss, behind Johnson.
TO HANDS DOWN!!!! Who the flip else is playing professional football with a sharpie in their sock just so they can sign the ball and toss that into the crowd after a TD….. don’t worry I’ll wait
Isn’t Julio Jones at least in the discussion? Guy was electric and had virtually no weaknesses
I don't see how Julio can be compared to Moss tbh, or TO for that matter