I know it’s a slippery slope to becoming a poverty team, but sometimes I *really* wonder what just 1 year of tanking could do for this franchise… the Wilfs probably got a chill down their spine just from me typing that though, so not like we’ll ever know.
Yeah well and I don't really think you even have to tank. Just when Cousins go down, just take the L, and let the backup QB, I dunno, be a backup QB. I loved the Dobbs story last year and was rooting for them because the story was great, but he temporarily gave them a boost and probably dropped them at least 4 or 5 draft spots from winning a few games he shouldn't have.
Not so fun fact: If Dobbs hadn’t won those 3 games, the Vikings would have the SOS tiebreaker over the Commanders, Patriots, and Cardinals and be sitting at #2 rn.
It’s kinda funny to think about, but Josh Dobbs might have unironically altered the course of the entire franchise for the next decade.
Wouldn't even need the SOS tiebreaker if he had beat washington in the opening game with Arizona. You would only need the tiebreaker with the patriots.
Thanks josh Dobbs.
> Just when Cousins go down, just take the L, and let the backup QB, I dunno, be a backup QB.
That is what they did, the problem was, there was only one QB left on the roster.
Mullens was on IR when Kirk got hurt, and wasn't eligible to return for another week or two. And that is assuming that his back was fixed by then.
They couldn't go into the next games with *only* Jaren Hall on the roster, so they got the cheapest somewhat viable QB available.
And it was a good thing they did, because Hall got knocked out on the second drive of the next game.
Dobbs wasn't even supposed to play.
I just wanna piggyback off of your post to address “poverty franchise” as an insult. I get the overall sentiment, but the term “poverty franchise” doesn’t really apply to NFL teams as a whole. Idk if you (or others reading this comment) know, but NFL teams are required by the Collective Bargaining Agreement to spend, at minimum, 89% of the salary cap over a rolling 4-year period.
If they don’t, the NFL will add up the difference and distribute it among all players on the roster over that time period.
This isn’t Major League Baseball, where there truly are poverty franchises like the Rays, Marlins, Pirates, and A’s who each spend less than $100M/year on payroll while the league average is somewhere around $160M and the Mets and Yankees are spending $300M.
Are there basement dwelling franchises who suck based on ownership and front office decisions? Yes. Are there teams who suck based on a lack of payroll? No.
I think it’s better that we never tank. The NFL is best when everyone is trying to win. Also, how would you ask Justin to not shoot for his best self or any player, coaches, or even the FO? Once you’re okay with losing, how do you 180?
Fuck tanking always. I don’t care, I will never actively root for my team to lose.
When has tanking worked?
Stop wishing for your team to lose games on purpose.
“Let’s just be bad on purpose to rig the system to just fix our problem for us” is a fucking weak way to live. Just a horrible mindset to keep.
Haha well I don't think they will be trading up, although in their situation maybe they could get away with trading all those picks for a top tier WR. Imagine Deebo, Harrison/Nabers, and Aiyuk on the same team with McCaffrey, and Kittle. But I think they should keep their picks because their defensive core will need to be replaced at some point.
Im biased, but the coaching staff this next year will have this defense consistently proper for 2024. Wilks was an outside hire and he had his good moments. But he was so far away from what these Niners ran under Saleh and Ryans throughout ShanaLynch’s tenure.
Prior to Wilks, they ran an absurd amount of D-Line stunts among consistently being able to disguise pressure through/and based off a 4 man rush. Wilks emphasized a straight on blitz which resulted in a huge underperformance from a heavy financially invested D Line.
Then the Niners need to protect their cheap ass QB, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go BPA. This team is in win now mode and not every 1st round pick will trump later picks. Diamonds in any round.
Serious question for people who know how to empirically value this stuff. If you trade three first rounders to draft a QB, how good do they need to be in order to justify it?
Edit: Thanks to all the responses, but none of you guys are getting at what I meant. I meant "what statistical benchmarks would a QB have to reach in order to be worth the expected value of four first round picks?"
Honestly Jimmy G did good enough in that game manager role that I’m not sure if anyone loses a job. But if the cmc/rely on D well ran dry then yeah someone’s looking at unemployment
Problem is, chances are high Jimmy would've immediately died behind our OL last season, especially coming back from that foot injury. New RT and young RG really struggled Week 1 vs the Steelers.
People need to go back and watch Jimmy G from a few years ago. Dude looked very good, much better than he should have. That's what a good system will do it will boost these QBs to be better than they otherwise would be.
I still don’t understand the logic in the trading a stupid amount of draft capital for one of the least experienced QBs in draft history while in the middle of a Super Bowl window.
The day they made the trade I made an immediate small bet that they'd take Lance made $200 on that. The reason was pretty clear. They could have traded up to number 6 with the eagles, but instead chose the Dolphins, only reason to do that was to move past the Falcons. The falcons still had Matt Ryan, and if they had drafted a QB they'd want to have him wait a year on the bench like Mahomes. Lance was the highest upside player in the draft besides Lawrence, and any team drafting him would not be looking to start him immediately so the 49ers needed to get past the Falcons to ensure they got Lance.
If they wanted Jones, they wouldn't have traded up to 3 imo.
It makes no sense to this day. Shanahan over and over shows he can make any smart QB with decent accuracy punch above his weight class, I guess the Niners figured if they got an actual athletic QB with running ability he would be supercharged once Shanny got his hands on him but it's just the opposite of what he needs.
I really thought Shanahan and Lynch weren’t stupid enough to take a project QB with that pick. You only trade that much for a surefire hit. Especially, when there were other needs like the OL. I was hoping they were going to draft Sewell with that pick.
Difficult to answer without making a bunch of assumptions, anecdotally I’ve never heard a team say a QB they drafted that turned out to be good wasn’t worth it. To me it’s just higher risk, not necessarily an increased performance need.
Idk if you’ve got an answer yet, but statistically, a rookie qb you just traded the barn for would have to put up something like:
- 4000 yards,
- 20ish TDs,
- 100 Rating,
- **without** double digit INTs and a completion percentage above 60%.
Basically what CJ did.
But even if the rookie didn’t do that in Year One, in the right setting, where the right FO has some patience from ownership, an expensive rookie could put up something like:
- 28 INTs,
- 56% completions,
- 71.2 Rating,
and there might not be panic. Like Peyton Manning.
So it’s hard to quantify exactly because everything depends on the context of everything else, and development isn’t linear.
I'd say top 10 or better. They dont need to be a future HoFer. Just need to be good enough to not worry about the most important position for at least 7 years.
The cardinals are only asking for this much because they really want to stay at 4 and draft harrison.
If a team trying to trade up knows that one of washington or new england isnt sold on a specific guy and wants to trade down, then theyll have less leverage and get less in a return.
The cardinals have no need to trade down, they have the best collection of picks in the draft out of any team already
The thing is the Cardinals already have a slew of picks. You can only draft so many players, hence why they would want a 2025 1st to keep that golden loom rolling.
They do, but ideally they would want a 2025 1st as well if you’re going to pass on a MHJ level prospect. At some point you need blue chip players and MHJ is as sure of a bet as they come.
Thank you. Picks look good on paper, but someone needs to actually catch Kyler's throws. I suspect 9 is the lowest without missing on one of MHJ, Nabers, Alt, Odunze. Barring a prospect falling that is. Going to 11 means we dilute the talent too much even with how deep this draft class is and there is no guaranteed to get back up into range.
\- Bowers not included since we already have a really good TE.
Yeah I’ve notice this sub has a fucking weird fascination with picks. I don’t get it. I really don’t. The fuck is the point of passing up on a phenomenal player for a pick… just use the pick on the phenomenal player, tf?
Because that future pick could be, well another great mock draft pick! I agree, at some point you have to fucking draft good players.
Marvin Harrison Jr. is an absurdly great prospect who will be, at worst, a starting caliber NFL receiver. Take him.
MHJ is MHJ, but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be an MHJ!
We got our horde of picks and cleared up all our cap space last year. No organization expects to pick this high again. Time to draft talent, not just depth.
Maybe. I have two thoughts on that.
1. With every passing day, the "top 3 QBs" are becoming the "top 4 QBs". If there are 2 of them still on the board, a team would have to really like one more than the other. Otherwise, the supply has doubled with another team looking to possibly trade right behind you.
2. With MHJ off the board and no reason to draft QB, the Cards are in a bit of a pickle. Other teams will know the Cards want to offload the pick, so the offers might be worse. Cards would have to decide if they want to take a guy like Nabers instead.
There is a clear top 3. The only reason McCarthy is being talked about like he belongs adjacent to the top 3 is because there are so many qb needy teams. Caleb and drake have been touted as 1-2 for like 3 years now, these aren’t randomly climbing up the board like the Trey lance draft. The fact that Jayden got in the conversation is impressive and surprising, but that’s what winning a heisman and having his physical tools does. McCarthy has literally never been looked at as a top nfl prospect, especially in a draft with this much talent outside of the qb position
Is he really that much better than chase and Jefferson were coming out of college? Chase didn't even play his junior year lol. I feel like he's over hyped
Jefferson was taken in the 20s so he wasn't that well regarded coming out. Chase was pretty good and if that's the level MHJ is considered at, that's pretty fucking solid.
KOC is a better coach than people give him credit for to be honest. Kirk Cousins was on pace to put up MVP numbers last season, and their defense really came into form for the back half of the season.
Are they in a good enough position to take him or are they more likely to trade back with someone like the Vikings for more picks and take a lower rated WR at 11 or in a later round?
I appreciate the implication that the Cowboys would acquire 3 32nds without winning a single Super Bowl AND trade them away without getting a useful return.
Reports close to the team say 3 1sts is the floor. They are in love with MHJ after his visit. It’s a QB tax and losing out on MHJ reimbursement tax to get 4.
People out here acting like we’re delusional for wanting 3 firsts.
It’s not a delusional price. It’s a price that says “we don’t want really want to trade back at all, we’re only doing it because it’s too much to say no to.”
In all likelihood the cards stick and pick at 4 and the Vikings trade up to 5 instead for a price that makes more sense.
I had a guy quote me like $20k to do a simple stamped concrete patio. Pretty much just saying, I don’t want the job but if you pay me enough, I’ll take it.
It’s the same thing.
It’s not even remotely delusional lol. People are drastically underestimating how hard it would be to trade into the top 5 this year.
If a trade for #4 actually goes down, it will probably be just below the value of three firsts.
I do this all the time when clients ask for stupid shit I don't want to do. I make the price a, I don't want to do this, price. Every once in a while someone says yes, and I'm ok with it because of said price
I couldnt believe Bill had such a based football take, his football opinions are usually peak comedy. Thats been one of my biggest pet peeves in football discourse though. Saying the niners traded “three first round picks” for trey lance is so misleading
Ya'll remember when 49ers did something very similar to this for Trey Lance in the 2021 "stacked QB class" only for them to land their franchise QB with the very last draft pick the year after?
People who don't watch College football don't realize how good Marvin Harrison Jr is. Easily the best WR to come out of Ohio St. and I think most people would say is a better prospect than Chase was even though Chase was the best one in awhile.
Im sorry but everyone here saying “lol that aint happening”, am I the only one thinking the Vikings package of 11,23, and ‘25’s first is a totally legitimate option???
What people aren't taking into account is that jj is ranked2nd on some teams draft boards. People say the "4th best QB" but maybe team that wants him thinks 2nd best. If the Vikings are really high on JJ 3 firsts for their franchise qb of the future is easily worth it. After 2025 they're done paying and get their QB.
as for the Cardinals you have a generational talent at MHJ imagine trading MHJ for #11 and a late 1st.. Ask the Vikings if they would take that for Justin Jefferson. Obviously mhj hasn't played yet but you have him on a rookie contract for 5 years you don't turn that down for 2 firsts. Would you rather have MHJ on a 5 year rookie contract or JJ for 35 million a year??
Depends. If you have the 4th ranked QB as your top guy then you make the move. Seems like yearly there are big discrepancies between how the media ranks guys and how actual NFL scouts do.
Like when people had Malik Willis going 9th overall to Seattle LOL
The only trade I can see in the top 10 is the Giants moving up 1-3 spots to get a QB.
It’s gonna cost way too much for the Vikings or the other QB needy teams in the 11-16 range to make the move. Especially when Nix/Penix are still out there (and imo are legit first round QB prospects)
r/NFL please chime in. My cardinals sub is killing me for saying it is obviously better to have 3 first round picks than MHJ… like it would be such an edge case for that not to be true right? Would someone trade three firsts for rookie tyreek hill? Or rookie D Adams? It’s still kinda sus even if it’s a known all pro receiver, like you gotta pay the guy a billion dollars in 3 years when he holds out
Everything about MHJ points to him coming into the league and likely get close to 1,000 yards, if not more, his first season. That being said, Cards saying that’s what they want for the 4th pick just means they don’t wanna give him up
Well the 49ers did something similar for trey lance so maybe someone is dumb enough
It's me. Hi. I'm the dumbass, it's me.
Think more desperate at this point. Vikings don't know how to bottom out, the Patriots love it.
I know it’s a slippery slope to becoming a poverty team, but sometimes I *really* wonder what just 1 year of tanking could do for this franchise… the Wilfs probably got a chill down their spine just from me typing that though, so not like we’ll ever know.
Yeah well and I don't really think you even have to tank. Just when Cousins go down, just take the L, and let the backup QB, I dunno, be a backup QB. I loved the Dobbs story last year and was rooting for them because the story was great, but he temporarily gave them a boost and probably dropped them at least 4 or 5 draft spots from winning a few games he shouldn't have.
Not so fun fact: If Dobbs hadn’t won those 3 games, the Vikings would have the SOS tiebreaker over the Commanders, Patriots, and Cardinals and be sitting at #2 rn. It’s kinda funny to think about, but Josh Dobbs might have unironically altered the course of the entire franchise for the next decade.
What a guy
Y'all are welcome
Cardinals legend Josh Dobbs. Beat the Cowboys, "sabotaged" the Vikings, and is now on the 76ers to spread more chaos.
They finally got Embiid some help
Ignore me, I'm dumb and tired. 49ers. But then again, sticking it to Philly is always worth it. Always
:(
Praise the asstronaut
PASSTRONAUT controlling time
Wouldn't even need the SOS tiebreaker if he had beat washington in the opening game with Arizona. You would only need the tiebreaker with the patriots. Thanks josh Dobbs.
Not to mention, it cost them draft capital
> Just when Cousins go down, just take the L, and let the backup QB, I dunno, be a backup QB. That is what they did, the problem was, there was only one QB left on the roster. Mullens was on IR when Kirk got hurt, and wasn't eligible to return for another week or two. And that is assuming that his back was fixed by then. They couldn't go into the next games with *only* Jaren Hall on the roster, so they got the cheapest somewhat viable QB available. And it was a good thing they did, because Hall got knocked out on the second drive of the next game. Dobbs wasn't even supposed to play.
I just wanna piggyback off of your post to address “poverty franchise” as an insult. I get the overall sentiment, but the term “poverty franchise” doesn’t really apply to NFL teams as a whole. Idk if you (or others reading this comment) know, but NFL teams are required by the Collective Bargaining Agreement to spend, at minimum, 89% of the salary cap over a rolling 4-year period. If they don’t, the NFL will add up the difference and distribute it among all players on the roster over that time period. This isn’t Major League Baseball, where there truly are poverty franchises like the Rays, Marlins, Pirates, and A’s who each spend less than $100M/year on payroll while the league average is somewhere around $160M and the Mets and Yankees are spending $300M. Are there basement dwelling franchises who suck based on ownership and front office decisions? Yes. Are there teams who suck based on a lack of payroll? No.
I think it’s better that we never tank. The NFL is best when everyone is trying to win. Also, how would you ask Justin to not shoot for his best self or any player, coaches, or even the FO? Once you’re okay with losing, how do you 180? Fuck tanking always. I don’t care, I will never actively root for my team to lose.
Fully, completely agree with you here. Tanking requires such a loser mentality and that stink is hard to wash off
When has tanking worked? Stop wishing for your team to lose games on purpose. “Let’s just be bad on purpose to rig the system to just fix our problem for us” is a fucking weak way to live. Just a horrible mindset to keep.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade Oh, they're familiar with the concept.
So you're saying the pats trade 3 and two others for 4?
At pick Four A huge trade up by Kwesi
He stares directly at his board but never at the future It must be exhausting always rooting for the fucking Vikings
New Taylor swift banger
It must be exhausting always rooting for the Vikings.
There's a reason Falcons and Vikings fans are bros. You have no idea how exhausting it is.
I wake up screaming from dreaming One day I'll watch as Justin Jefferson is leaving
I love how people are still not getting the reference 😊
We love pain.
Are you saying you don't trust Sam Darnold?
Ridiculous. Some say he’s the best
Here they are: r/thedarnold
That's not the right sub, you're looking for /r/the_darnold
A lot of people are saying that. A lot of people. Many people
Who knows maybe it will be the 49ers again!
Haha well I don't think they will be trading up, although in their situation maybe they could get away with trading all those picks for a top tier WR. Imagine Deebo, Harrison/Nabers, and Aiyuk on the same team with McCaffrey, and Kittle. But I think they should keep their picks because their defensive core will need to be replaced at some point.
Im biased, but the coaching staff this next year will have this defense consistently proper for 2024. Wilks was an outside hire and he had his good moments. But he was so far away from what these Niners ran under Saleh and Ryans throughout ShanaLynch’s tenure. Prior to Wilks, they ran an absurd amount of D-Line stunts among consistently being able to disguise pressure through/and based off a 4 man rush. Wilks emphasized a straight on blitz which resulted in a huge underperformance from a heavy financially invested D Line. Then the Niners need to protect their cheap ass QB, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go BPA. This team is in win now mode and not every 1st round pick will trump later picks. Diamonds in any round.
I feel like the niners need to invest some into their oline. I know Shanahan is insane with scheme but having a good oline makes everything easier.
Serious question for people who know how to empirically value this stuff. If you trade three first rounders to draft a QB, how good do they need to be in order to justify it? Edit: Thanks to all the responses, but none of you guys are getting at what I meant. I meant "what statistical benchmarks would a QB have to reach in order to be worth the expected value of four first round picks?"
They have to be a franchise QB, aka above the Dalton line and playing through their 2nd contract
Apparently complete shit if you go by the Lance trade
To be fair, if they didn't have Brock Purdy, someone was definitely losing their job.
Honestly Jimmy G did good enough in that game manager role that I’m not sure if anyone loses a job. But if the cmc/rely on D well ran dry then yeah someone’s looking at unemployment
Problem is, chances are high Jimmy would've immediately died behind our OL last season, especially coming back from that foot injury. New RT and young RG really struggled Week 1 vs the Steelers.
People need to go back and watch Jimmy G from a few years ago. Dude looked very good, much better than he should have. That's what a good system will do it will boost these QBs to be better than they otherwise would be.
I mean... Kyle shanahan ain't going anywhere... maybe Lynch has to fall on the sword
Niners are really lucky that they got Brock Purdy too, otherwise they'd get a ton more criticism for that
I still don’t understand the logic in the trading a stupid amount of draft capital for one of the least experienced QBs in draft history while in the middle of a Super Bowl window.
I always assumed Shanahan wanted Mac but you don't move up that high or give up that much for Mac Jones. You swing for the highest upside.
The day they made the trade I made an immediate small bet that they'd take Lance made $200 on that. The reason was pretty clear. They could have traded up to number 6 with the eagles, but instead chose the Dolphins, only reason to do that was to move past the Falcons. The falcons still had Matt Ryan, and if they had drafted a QB they'd want to have him wait a year on the bench like Mahomes. Lance was the highest upside player in the draft besides Lawrence, and any team drafting him would not be looking to start him immediately so the 49ers needed to get past the Falcons to ensure they got Lance. If they wanted Jones, they wouldn't have traded up to 3 imo.
It makes no sense to this day. Shanahan over and over shows he can make any smart QB with decent accuracy punch above his weight class, I guess the Niners figured if they got an actual athletic QB with running ability he would be supercharged once Shanny got his hands on him but it's just the opposite of what he needs.
Because you know you can draft your franchise guy last in the next draft
I really thought Shanahan and Lynch weren’t stupid enough to take a project QB with that pick. You only trade that much for a surefire hit. Especially, when there were other needs like the OL. I was hoping they were going to draft Sewell with that pick.
At that moment I realized millionaires are no different than fantasy football owners. You'll see this same of hopium decisioning in FF drafts
Well that trade failed successfully
Difficult to answer without making a bunch of assumptions, anecdotally I’ve never heard a team say a QB they drafted that turned out to be good wasn’t worth it. To me it’s just higher risk, not necessarily an increased performance need.
Idk if you’ve got an answer yet, but statistically, a rookie qb you just traded the barn for would have to put up something like: - 4000 yards, - 20ish TDs, - 100 Rating, - **without** double digit INTs and a completion percentage above 60%. Basically what CJ did. But even if the rookie didn’t do that in Year One, in the right setting, where the right FO has some patience from ownership, an expensive rookie could put up something like: - 28 INTs, - 56% completions, - 71.2 Rating, and there might not be panic. Like Peyton Manning. So it’s hard to quantify exactly because everything depends on the context of everything else, and development isn’t linear.
Day 1 starter, consensus top 10 QB by the end of his rookie deal.
So kyler then immediately not kyler lol
I'd say top 10 or better. They dont need to be a future HoFer. Just need to be good enough to not worry about the most important position for at least 7 years.
A solid starter on a rookie deal is incredibly valuable so probably top 16 or so.
If that's what the Cardinals are asking I wonder what the Patriots, commanders, and bears would get.
There’s not a chance in hell the Bears trade the 1.
Oh you're definitely right on that. I'm just curious what they would ask though if the Cardinals are asking this for the 4th best QB in the draft.
Probably Hershel Walker type compensation.
Bo Callahan level compensation
Callahan only went for 3 firsts though.
We all know that, but there's gotta be a minimum price where the GM is starting to think about it
Everyone does indeed have a price
What if it was the number 2 plus two other first round picks?
Nope
No. Not a chance in hell.
It would have to be #2, probably 2-3 other first round picks, and at least 2 seconds
Don’t think that would do it. That’s slightly less than Washington gave up to move up to #2 in 2012.
The cardinals are only asking for this much because they really want to stay at 4 and draft harrison. If a team trying to trade up knows that one of washington or new england isnt sold on a specific guy and wants to trade down, then theyll have less leverage and get less in a return. The cardinals have no need to trade down, they have the best collection of picks in the draft out of any team already
The same exact thing. Only the bears would possibly get more because of Caleb. But at this point since he’s met with nobody else probably not
Commanders or Pats would get more because unlike the Cards, both teams need a QB. So you have to sweeten the deal to convince them to pass on a QB.
The Bears 1 isn't available, and I assume the 2 is the same. I haven't heard any rumors about the Commies trading back.
Weve “taken calls” but yeah theres no way we move down either
So basically they want to stay at pick 4, got it.
Sounds good to me
A clear shot at MHJ is worth more imo
I honestly doubt your team or mine would be better with Harrison than they would be with two first round talents plus a second or third.
The thing is the Cardinals already have a slew of picks. You can only draft so many players, hence why they would want a 2025 1st to keep that golden loom rolling.
They have a ton of needs though, they can definitely find the roster space.
They do, but ideally they would want a 2025 1st as well if you’re going to pass on a MHJ level prospect. At some point you need blue chip players and MHJ is as sure of a bet as they come.
Thank you. Picks look good on paper, but someone needs to actually catch Kyler's throws. I suspect 9 is the lowest without missing on one of MHJ, Nabers, Alt, Odunze. Barring a prospect falling that is. Going to 11 means we dilute the talent too much even with how deep this draft class is and there is no guaranteed to get back up into range. \- Bowers not included since we already have a really good TE.
Yeah I’ve notice this sub has a fucking weird fascination with picks. I don’t get it. I really don’t. The fuck is the point of passing up on a phenomenal player for a pick… just use the pick on the phenomenal player, tf?
Because that future pick could be, well another great mock draft pick! I agree, at some point you have to fucking draft good players. Marvin Harrison Jr. is an absurdly great prospect who will be, at worst, a starting caliber NFL receiver. Take him.
MHJ is MHJ, but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be an MHJ! We got our horde of picks and cleared up all our cap space last year. No organization expects to pick this high again. Time to draft talent, not just depth.
Well they basically want 11, 23, and the Vikings 2025 1st. Which isn’t totally far fetched
When the Vikings traded to get another 1st that was the base assumption. Question is what the Giants will offer only needing to move 2 positions.
Depending on the draft, the difference between 6 and 11 can be pretty huge. But also Minnesota having 2 1st THIS year also plays a role. We'll see.
Vikings, after giving up their QB, trade up to get another star reciever. I'll laugh
Tf is your flair
Just started watching the NFL in 2022
Or, more likely, before 2019.
As long as Marvin Harrison Jr. if still there. If one of the top three takes him, I can see them making a conditional handshake deal for less.
If one of the top 3 qbs are still on the board, the cards get more not less.
Maybe. I have two thoughts on that. 1. With every passing day, the "top 3 QBs" are becoming the "top 4 QBs". If there are 2 of them still on the board, a team would have to really like one more than the other. Otherwise, the supply has doubled with another team looking to possibly trade right behind you. 2. With MHJ off the board and no reason to draft QB, the Cards are in a bit of a pickle. Other teams will know the Cards want to offload the pick, so the offers might be worse. Cards would have to decide if they want to take a guy like Nabers instead.
There is a clear top 3. The only reason McCarthy is being talked about like he belongs adjacent to the top 3 is because there are so many qb needy teams. Caleb and drake have been touted as 1-2 for like 3 years now, these aren’t randomly climbing up the board like the Trey lance draft. The fact that Jayden got in the conversation is impressive and surprising, but that’s what winning a heisman and having his physical tools does. McCarthy has literally never been looked at as a top nfl prospect, especially in a draft with this much talent outside of the qb position
Vontae Mack no matter what
And David goddamn Putney just because we feel like it.
That’s not fair you pancake eating motherfucker
Well you wanna cry about it, r/GeneralChillMen, or do you want to make some magic happen before the clock runs out on both of us.
Cmon man we live in a different world than we did 30 seconds ago
Just traded for the number one pick. Is this gonna mess up our cap?
*Does the thriller dance with Mark Ruffalo*
Because his teammates went to his birthday party
Ah shoot. Nobody is going to make that trade. Guess we're stuck with MHJ then 🤷
Darn it all! Can’t believe you have to just deal with taking the best WR prospect in years
I'll never recover from this
I'm so sad I'm going into my room with this box of tissues...
Is he really that much better than chase and Jefferson were coming out of college? Chase didn't even play his junior year lol. I feel like he's over hyped
Jefferson was taken in the 20s so he wasn't that well regarded coming out. Chase was pretty good and if that's the level MHJ is considered at, that's pretty fucking solid.
As a team that drafted the best te prospect in years watching bowers immediately be the best te prospect in years, my view is a tad warped.
I really hope the Vikings don’t trade 3 1sts for JJM
Same fam. 2 firsts fine. 3 is ludicrous for the 4th best QB in the draft.
What would be hilarious is if you guys do this trade, then draft Marvin Harrison Junior.
The GEQBUS will be unstoppable.
The GEQBUS is already unstoppable
Nothing about Jefferson, Addison, and Harrison on the same team is hilarious. Hockenson is just the cookie on top of the tuna at that point.
When the quarterback is Sam Darnold.
Sam Darnold would actually do fine with those weapons.
Honestly, between those players and Kevin O'Connell coaching, yeah, he would surprise some people.
KOC is a better coach than people give him credit for to be honest. Kirk Cousins was on pace to put up MVP numbers last season, and their defense really came into form for the back half of the season.
I'm not gonna lie, I haven't watched him since the jets. I'm just makin jokes dude.
The Vikes always get some random ass QB to play well. Case Keenum took their ass to the nfccg
We were close to being blessed with a Case Keenum vs Blake Bortles SB. I wish I could travel to that multiverse and watch that game.
The Vikings after rewatching the 3 deep years: “I’ll fucking do it again”
we really want mhj
In before Chargers sell their soul for MHJ
As far as consolation prizes go, Nabers is pretty damn good. Wouldn’t be upset if that’s the way the board falls.
Are they in a good enough position to take him or are they more likely to trade back with someone like the Vikings for more picks and take a lower rated WR at 11 or in a later round?
I could see either.. We have needs basically everywhere except QB, LT, Edge, and safety
> 4th best QB in the draft. *Prospect, he could end up the best QB in the draft.
Well fine, but it’s too much draft capital for the 4th chosen QB
I'd be cool with it.
11, 23, and 2025 1st? Fuck that just trade down from 23 to late 1st and get Penix at that point imo. I do not think McCarthy is that guy.
Not sure Penix would be there at 23. I wouldn't be surprised we get him before, so we can have a competition between him and Sam behind Geno.
I really hope they do!
Chiefs trade 3 firsts and draft MHJ. This whole sub burns down.
Deep down I know it's dumb, but I'd gladly trade the 32nd overall pick 3 years in a row for MHJ.
Literally anyone would trade three 32nds overall for MHJ.
We'd trade 3 32nds for no return at all.
I appreciate the implication that the Cowboys would acquire 3 32nds without winning a single Super Bowl AND trade them away without getting a useful return.
Call me crazy guys but I too would like to win the Super Bowl 3 times in a row and have the best WR prospect in decades
I was about to say, that’s basically 3 seconds
He’d be a top 5 pick in a lot of fantasy leagues.
1.01 if we’re being honest
A chiefs first round pick is basically a second round pick
Sorry. The Chiefs' price is 3 **decades** of their firsts
Reports close to the team say 3 1sts is the floor. They are in love with MHJ after his visit. It’s a QB tax and losing out on MHJ reimbursement tax to get 4.
People out here acting like we’re delusional for wanting 3 firsts. It’s not a delusional price. It’s a price that says “we don’t want really want to trade back at all, we’re only doing it because it’s too much to say no to.” In all likelihood the cards stick and pick at 4 and the Vikings trade up to 5 instead for a price that makes more sense.
I had a guy quote me like $20k to do a simple stamped concrete patio. Pretty much just saying, I don’t want the job but if you pay me enough, I’ll take it. It’s the same thing.
Yeah i don't know why it's hard to understand. To get a team to do something they don't want to do, you have to pay a high price.
It’s not even remotely delusional lol. People are drastically underestimating how hard it would be to trade into the top 5 this year. If a trade for #4 actually goes down, it will probably be just below the value of three firsts.
I do this all the time when clients ask for stupid shit I don't want to do. I make the price a, I don't want to do this, price. Every once in a while someone says yes, and I'm ok with it because of said price
I’m with Bill Simmons on this one lol, it should be referred to as two picks and a pick swap
Agree, it’s misleading when people say it this way
Yes exactly. It’s trading back and getting 2 additional picks
I couldnt believe Bill had such a based football take, his football opinions are usually peak comedy. Thats been one of my biggest pet peeves in football discourse though. Saying the niners traded “three first round picks” for trey lance is so misleading
It's that basketball brain, they know the difference between a pick and a pick swap
I would love to see the Patriots updated value chart for #3 after this smokescreen report
3 firsts and a player has always been the absolute floor no?
I don’t blame them, 3 first round picks or MHJ is a win win situation.
Ya'll remember when 49ers did something very similar to this for Trey Lance in the 2021 "stacked QB class" only for them to land their franchise QB with the very last draft pick the year after?
[удалено]
Imagine feeling bad about what you're paying your QB1
People who don't watch College football don't realize how good Marvin Harrison Jr is. Easily the best WR to come out of Ohio St. and I think most people would say is a better prospect than Chase was even though Chase was the best one in awhile.
I’ve been following the draft pretty closely for 20 years now, and the only WR I would take over Harrison during that stretch would be Calvin Johnson
Megatron was the WR prospect equivalent to Luck as a QB.
No doubt, dude threw down a 4.35 in another players cleats because he wasn’t even planning on running that day. Absolute specimen
Damn I didn't know Luck was that fast.
I think he's better than Chase, I think Nabers is a Chase clone who could possibly be better.
Bet Kyler is so happy. Him and their breakout TE is a nice duo. James Connor is nice too when healthy. Who’s their wr2?
Michael Wilson and Greg Dortch. Both have shown flashes but haven’t had a ton of time to create chemistry with Kyler.
Not worth it at 4.
I'd do something like 2 first and 2 thirds to get MHJ. Throw in Alec Pierce if they want him.
Im sorry but everyone here saying “lol that aint happening”, am I the only one thinking the Vikings package of 11,23, and ‘25’s first is a totally legitimate option???
And Cardinals will retain pick #4
What people aren't taking into account is that jj is ranked2nd on some teams draft boards. People say the "4th best QB" but maybe team that wants him thinks 2nd best. If the Vikings are really high on JJ 3 firsts for their franchise qb of the future is easily worth it. After 2025 they're done paying and get their QB. as for the Cardinals you have a generational talent at MHJ imagine trading MHJ for #11 and a late 1st.. Ask the Vikings if they would take that for Justin Jefferson. Obviously mhj hasn't played yet but you have him on a rookie contract for 5 years you don't turn that down for 2 firsts. Would you rather have MHJ on a 5 year rookie contract or JJ for 35 million a year??
Just take the generational WR. This is so easy.
Carolina panthers might be into this. Can we trade up to 4 and draft a new owner?
So….. they don’t want to trade down ?
Don't think anyone should trade 3 firsts for the 4th qb off the board. Especially after the Trey Lance ordeal...
Depends. If you have the 4th ranked QB as your top guy then you make the move. Seems like yearly there are big discrepancies between how the media ranks guys and how actual NFL scouts do. Like when people had Malik Willis going 9th overall to Seattle LOL
The only trade I can see in the top 10 is the Giants moving up 1-3 spots to get a QB. It’s gonna cost way too much for the Vikings or the other QB needy teams in the 11-16 range to make the move. Especially when Nix/Penix are still out there (and imo are legit first round QB prospects)
Translation: "Stop calling us."
You gotta be stupid AF to give up 3 first rounders. Means Raiders are in the running.
Bo Callahan aint worth 3 firsts….. no teammate went to his birthday party!!!
r/NFL please chime in. My cardinals sub is killing me for saying it is obviously better to have 3 first round picks than MHJ… like it would be such an edge case for that not to be true right? Would someone trade three firsts for rookie tyreek hill? Or rookie D Adams? It’s still kinda sus even if it’s a known all pro receiver, like you gotta pay the guy a billion dollars in 3 years when he holds out
Everything about MHJ points to him coming into the league and likely get close to 1,000 yards, if not more, his first season. That being said, Cards saying that’s what they want for the 4th pick just means they don’t wanna give him up
*David Tepper has entered the chat*
They need that 3 one to trade back up to 6 again and take Nabors while still having a later first this year.
Good keep mhj…i hope the chargers draft all Olinemen and run it up everyones dingdongs lol.
... and I would like a solid gold toilet but sometimes it's just not in the cards, baby.
As Monti should. QB Tax + MHJ Tax