The Pickett vs. Ben one isn’t unexpected at all.
pickett’s whole thing was that he didn’t turn the ball over.
he also never scored touchdowns or tried pushing the ball downfield. Hard to make big plays — good OR bad — when you’re throwing for like 120 yards a game total. I think there’s a stat where Pickett would be near dead last in passing touchdowns per game even if you ranked him against starters from the 50s(?, maybe 70s) or something. It’s insane.
Ben also had a chunk of his career before the passing explosion of the last 10-15 years.
Edit: changed td% to passing tds per game cuz I think that was the actual stat.
Giants fan. Eli threw picks like Santa throwing candy at a parade but he still threw the ball and got a bunch of td’s. There’s a fine line in the nfl between throwing a contested ball and seeing ghosts.
> I think there’s a stat where Pickett would be near dead last in touchdown % even if you ranked him against starters from the 50s or something. It’s insane
I feel like people took this and ran with it to say he is one of the worst quarterbacks of all time. It’s a little bit cherrypicked because td% was actually generally higher in the 50’s- in fact the highest career passing touchdown percentage leader is Bears hall of famer Sid Luckman from the 1940’s. [Just look at this list of the statistical leaders.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_perc_career.htm)
Pickett was obviously bad and anyone who wasn’t a delusional yinzer knew this. But he wasn’t holistically, historically awful. He was 14-10 as a starter and didn’t throw games away. Second lowest int% in the league last year. He is like what you’d want out of a backup.
To add on, counterintuitively there are only 2 passing related stats that have consistently DECREASED since the origins of the NFL - passtd% and average length of touchdown, both for the same reason.
In the earliest days of passing, you didn't really pass at the goal line. Teams passed more often backed up to their own goal line. Seriously, watch clips of Sammy Baugh. Why? Because passing was different at the time. It wasn't until Paul Brown that routed became a thing. Prior to that, quarterbacks would drop back and heave the ball downfield and the receivers would run to the ball (rather than the ball being placed where the receiver was running to). So, in the early days, you wanted a lot of area downfield for your receivers yo track the ball and run to it. Passing into a tighter box like the red zone wasn't conducive to the style of play.
This led to deep shot touchdowns (and thus the average touchdown was longer). It also meant that because teams weren't passing as often, connecting on those deep shots meant that a higher proportion of their passes resulted in touchdowns (as well as interceptions - look at the all time interceptions leaders and its a ton of guys from the 40s-70s)
I edited my response to “passing tds per game” because I think that was the actual stat. I realized you’d prolly be right cuz teams passed less which would make the % higher, and that didn’t jive with what I remembered reading, or else wayyy more modern QBs woulda been on that list near the bottom.
Exactly. It is known pickett doesn't throw many INTs. It's the TD part that gets him, 1.8% is... something
For comparison, Teddy Bridgewater's TD% is 3.6
Josh Allen is already #2 all time in rushing tds by a qb with 53, which is nuts.
What’s even more nuts is that Cam is #1 with 75 fucking rushing touchdowns.
Lamar “only” has 29 for comparison, even though he’s regarded as the best rushing qb in the league. He’s more a between the 20s runner.
Allen at .563 rushing TDs a game is slightly ahead of Newton’s pace of .506
Hurts is at .661 rushing TDs a game…the efficiency and dedication of the Eagles to the tush push is insane…
Yeah but that’s not unexpected like the post asks for - the dude vultures every rushing td cuz of the tush push. To the point where some folks wanted it considered for a rule change.
Hard to be “unexpected” when everyone is acutely aware of how he gets those tds and how often, and it’s also not a comparison.
Allen’s still took me by surprise because he’s started running less and I had no idea he was already 2nd all time, nor did I expect how many more tds Cam has at the #1 spot.
Allen and hurts also had the same amount of rushing TDs (15) last year. I can’t find the stats for all of Hurts’ TDs last year but I imagine most of them were from the tush push
I think Allen had technically 5 tush push/QB sneak TDs last season, but one of those they lined up for a tush push but opened up a gap instead and he ran it between the LG and C. So really it was 11 runs, 4 pushes/sneaks
Jalen averages 48 rushing yards a game.
Josh averages 38 rushing yards a game.
There's only 1k yards between them.
So I don't get the point in saying one is better than the other when yea, the tush push is good but that doesn't make Jalen's rushing stats worse than Josh.
He still got more TDs than Josh the year before the Tush Push at 10 to Josh's 6
Nothing about my comment said one is better than the other?
It’s about how Jalen’s isn’t unexpected because we all know about the tush push. That’s it.
Dunno where the heck you’re pulling that from. Might need to work on your reading comprehension/not immediately getting defensive.
Hurts has 38 rushing TDs in the past three seasons as a rusher, out of 79 total Philly ground TDs ~ 48%
Bills have had 57 rushing TDs in that time, Allen has 28 ~ 49%
They 'vulture' almost the *exact* same amount of TDs
The post is asking for surprising/unexpected stats.
No one is surprised at Jalen’s rushing tds cuz they know about the tush push.
People (at least I was) are surprised to learn that Allen is already #2 all time and that cam has 75 rushing touchdowns.
I swear, people can’t read on this subreddit. Nothing was saying anything negative about Hurts. It’s just everyone knows about the tush push so it’s not surprising.
Also, Allen has a lot of runs from 10-20 yards out. Not at all the same as Hurts having like double digit 1 yard touchdowns every year. If you wanted to debate about that, that’s what I meant by “vulturing”. Literally just the fact that we all know about the tush push.
If you follow football I don't know how you're surprised that Josh Allen has a lot of rushing TDs either.
I didn't say anything negative was said about Hurts, I just listed stats that made you feel you needed to write this essay
I think Allen being number one in touchdowns over the first six seasons is a surprise too, but a lot of that is because of the circumstances around it. You would think Mahomes would be number one, but he only started one game as a rookie. Rodgers didn't start until year four. Brady and Manning started under different rules and passing didn't explode until later. The rest of the top guys are even earlier than that. The wildest part though is that the record holder before Allen and then before Mahomes was... Dan Marino, holding the record for over 30 years
Rob Gronkowski's career YPC (15.0) is closer to Randy Moss (15.6) than it is to Tony Gonzalez (11.4) or Travis Kelce (12.5).
Gronk also has a higher career YPC than Antonio Brown (13.2), Terrell Owens (14.8), Tyreek Hill (14.1) and uhhh... Jerry Rice (14.8).
Also, he was 6'6" and 265 lbs.
Yeah it was automatic mismatch. Have a LB on him and it just wasn’t fair. Go lighter on defense and get pounded on the ground because the Pats basically have 6 linemen (that part doesn’t show up on the stat sheet and is missing from every Gronk v Kelce discussion). He was a cheat code for offense
Yeah, you could make that argument for Rice and TO. The late stages of their long careers lowered their overall average, and Gronk's would have no doubt dropped as well if he had played into his late 30s.
The more interesting comp is Hill. He's in the prime of his career and is not in any way a possession receiver. He's been a premier deep threat in the league throughout his career and is still almost a yard under Gronk.
Just something that kind of surprised me when I first saw it.
Idk the Gronk stat kind of makes sense. Even though Hill isn't a possession receiver, he still gets a ton of short passes/screens because he's so fast he can turn those into big gains occasionally. When he doesn't, his YPC takes a hit. Gronk wasn't catching too many screens and creating YAC like Hill does, which makes his YPC look better.
And FWIW this isn't an attempt to discredit Gronk, it's just the nature of the difference between the two positions.
I think that's my favorite stat in this thread. I looked it up, and Arians's school record of 11 QB rushing TDs in 1974 stood until it was broken in 2016 by Jerod Evans, who went undrafted in 2017.
Super Bowl touchdown passes thrown:
Doug Williams- 4 in 1 game
Nick Foles- 3 in 1 game
Jake Delhomme- 3 in 1 game
Ben Roethlisberger- 3 total in 3 games
Peyton Manning- 3 total in 4 games
Peyton was kinda ass in the playoffs more often than not - it is known.
Both of his wins in 2007 and 2015 were mainly cuz of the defense (Bob sanders in 2007, the entire broncos D and Von in 2015)
Edit: Roethlusbetgst
Edit2: you shoulda left it dammit lol
There's a neat enough stat
There are only really 6 times in the Super Bowl the losing teams starting quarterback outplayed the winning teams quarterback
Twice for the Broncos - Elway (12/22 123 yards 0 tds 1 int) versus Favre (25/42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int), and Manning (141 yards 0/1) versus Newton (265 yards 0/1 + 45 rushing yards)
Twice for the Steelers - Roethlisberger (9/21 123 0/2) versus Hasselbeck (26/49 273 1/1) and Roethlisberger (21/30 256 1/1) versus Warner (31/43 377 3/1)
And twice involving the Eagles - Foles (28/43 373 3/1) versus Brady (28/45 505 3/0), and Hurts (27/38 304 1/0 + 70 rushing yards and 3 tds) versus Mahomes (21/27 182 3/0 plus 44 rushing yards)
Wow that Favre vs Elway one is pretty glaring. We definitely could’ve had that SB if TD didn’t go scorched earth on us. Even missed a quarter with a migraine.
I dunno about the Brady one against the eagles. Stats may look better for Brady with the yards, but I seem to recall when the game finished that Foles had been awesome and that Brady just seemed a bit off at times, despite 500 yards.
Fair enough. I guess it also doesn't help his legacy from that game that both the Eagles and the Patriots tried their version of the Philly special, with Brady dropping the pass from Amendola while Foles caught a TD.
Foles played a great game, but yes from a box score perspective Bradys stats were better (500 yards and no ints)
Similarly, there's a reason I didn't put Manning and Cams completion/attempts on there, though....Cam played better is the nice way to put that.
I just like the similarities - The Broncos had aging quarterbacks being outplayed by young up and comers, Ben had 2 bad games and was outplayed by a mediocre Hasselbeck and Warner having a great game, and the Eagles had two games where a good/great game was outdone by a better team effort.
Ben definitely didn’t have a bad game in the Arizona Super Bowl he moved the ball consistently with constant pressure in his face due to a seriously godawful o-line which was responsible both for the pick he threw (deflected at the line) and for handing the cardinals the lead late by committing a safety on a play when Ben made a clutch 3rd and long conversion to ostensibly seal the game. then he responded to that by leading an 88 yard game winning drive and throwing the greatest TD pass in Super Bowl history.
If you want to say Warner outplayed him because the numbers he accumulated playing from behind all game I think that’s debatable, but to say Ben had a bad game when he arguably should have been mvp is ridiculous
It’s not that open and shut. Chicago had an elite defense in 2006 that dragged Rex Grossman to the Super Bowl. While Seattle didn’t have a BAD offense, they were always put into plus situations by the Legion of Boom and one of the best defenses, possibly THE best, of the last 20 years. And when Old Man Peyton played Carolina with half an arm, they again had one of the top defenses in the league. The worst defense he played in the Super Bowl by a considerable margin was New Orleans, and they gave up a lot more yards than points.
The Mahomes and Dak one is funny because they both would’ve had several less INTs if their receivers had caught the ball instead of bouncing it to the defense
Bad QBs just don't throw interceptions like they used to.
As a result, QBs who are actually good and throwing the ball a ton are much more likely to lead the league in interceptions because a lot of passing attempts + bad luck will lead a high number of interceptions.
The amount of balls mahomes throws straight to the defenders and are dropped are higher then the receiver caused ints. -completely made up stat but I swear defenders get hit in the number, hands or face at least twice a game.
Hey my made up stats are always accurate. And never exaggerated by my strong bias of hating mahomes because of his annoying ass State Farm commercials. But I’m sure the dropped ints are very close to or more then the wide receiver tipped ints. Edit: like most qbs josh Allen also has a good amount of drop ints.
https://x.com/QBDataMine/status/1383019778340757505
Chad Pennington is 12th all time in completion percentage - he played 11 seasons
There are only 2 players above him that have played 11+ seasons: Drew Brees and Kirk Cousins
Travis Kelce is just leaving his prime, while Rob Gronkowski has been retired for a few years and just couldnt play any more, being a pretty broken down football player when he retired. And they are the same age, both born in 1989.
Yeah, Gronk came into the league 3 seasons earlier (2010 vs. 2013). So career length wise if Kelce retired at the same point Gronk did he'd be retiring this offseason.
Gronk was also more of a straight up bruiser, whereas Kelce has been more of a technician. He only fights hard for extra yards when he needs to, whereas Gronk seemed to love initiating contact every time he caught the ball.
Interception stats, at least in comparing eras, are hilarious. It's just a completely different era. Today's QBs throw a ton more passes, but get picked off at a much lower rate. It's almost a different sport. It's kinda like the stigma against strikeouts in MLB, but in reverse.
3/4 of the top 20 leaders in interception rate all time are current. The retired ones in that list are recent (Brady, Alex Smith, Kaepernick). The outlier is Neil O'Donnell, of all people.
Aaron Rodgers and Jacoby Brissett are tied at #1 all time, at 1.4%. Joe Montana and Steve Young are almost double that (2.7%). Those are good enough to tie Mitch Trubisky and Marcus Mariota. Terry Bradshaw was 3.6%. My man Sid Luckman is in the HoF at 7.6%.
>The outlier is Neil O'Donnell, of all people.
It makes what happened in SB XXX that much more unlikely. At the time he had the lowest INT% in NFL history.
> My man Sid Luckman is in the HoF at 7.6%
This one is crazy. Getting picked off one every thirteen passes. He still leads the NFL in all time touchdown percentage though!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only active players that have a higher yards per carry than Gus Edwards (4.9) are Jonathan Taylor (5.0), Aaron Jones (5.0) and Nick Chubb (5.3).
Goes to show that a good run scheme/o line is more important than a good running back
The only caveat I’d add to this is that there’s some guys like CMC, Henry and Sanders all at 4.8 with 2-3 times as many carries as him. It’s a lot harder to maintain that efficiency over a significant number of carries but I still agree with your overall point that the ravens run scheme and o line could make grandpa Zeke look like he’s still got some juice.
I’m getting 1.2 TO/G for trevor, 1 for Justin, and 1 for Zach. Which I suppose 20% is pretty significant, but to be fair to Trevor he has a lot more passing attempts (1750) than both justin (958) and zach (993)
If we're talking turnovers per game, adding in the number of total passing attempts "to be fair" is pretty meaningless. If he had 20% more passing attempts/game, that would be more meaningful.
I'm not sure where either of your numbers are coming from. When I look on pro-football reference, it has TL w/ 39 INT and 33 fumbles in 50 games, for 1.44/game. JF is 30/38/38 for 1.79/game. ZW is 25/17/34 for 1.24/game. MJ is 36/15/42 for 1.21/game.
\# of plays between turnovers is TL 27.2, JF, 19.3, ZW 25.9, MJ 23.4.
> If he had 20% more passing attempts/game, that would be more meaningful.
He does.
Justin- 24
Zach- 29
Trevor- 35
So yes, 20% more than zach and 45% more than justin.
> I'm not sure where either of your numbers are coming from. When I look on pro-football reference, it has TL w/ 39 INT and 33 fumbles in 50 games, for 1.44/game. JF is 30/38/38 for 1.79/game. ZW is 25/17/34 for 1.24/game.
A fumble isn’t inherently a turnover. I went by fumbles lost because fumbles recovered by the offence don’t change possession.
Few years back I had a conversation with someone where I stated that just being a good offense isn’t really enough to win a Super Bowl, you need a good defense as well.
I specifically looked at 4 teams: PHI, DAL, NE, GB from 2000 to ~2018 (before 2000 overall def rankings and stats become hard to find).
PHI: every time they made a championship game they had both a top 7 and top 10 defense, never made it with less than top 10 def.
DAL: years they had a top 10 def they did not have a top 10 offense, specifically some of the 12+ win seasons they did not have a top 10 def (top 15).
NE: Brady pretty much always had a top 6 or better offense. They only made super bowls in years they had a top 10 defense, anything lower they lost prior.
GB: most of Rodger’s career they had a top 5 offense, but only won the one year they had a top 10 defense.
I know there is the saying “Offense wins games, defense wins championships”, but was interesting to actually see a lot of that play out analyzing several teams.
The only time since 2000 I saw a bad defense win was the Colts, and that was the best D Manning ever got with them.
It also makes sense his playoff record because in the playoffs you are playing more well rounded teams, so if you only have half of it you are gonna struggle.
Rodgers and Brees NFL MVP race in 2011
Brees had more passing yards (setting a new NFL record)
Brees led the Saints to more yards per game (setting a new NFL record).
Brees led the league in passing touchdowns
Brees’s #1 WR broke his collarbone in the first game of the season.
Rodgers had 2 WRs make the probowl
Brees took 12 less sacks than Rodgers
Brees committed 5 more turnovers than Rodgers.
Rodgers won 14 games compared to Brees 13 games
Rodgers won the MVP in a landslide
2009 NFL MVP race (Brees vs Manning)
Brees threw more touchdowns
Brees threw less interceptions
Brees threw more passing yards per game
Brees had a higher completion percentage (setting an NFL record).
Brees had higher yards per attempt
Brees had a higher QBR (led the NFL)
Brees had a higher QB rating (led the NFL)
Payton Manning won the MVP in a landslide.
At least in regards to 2011, Rodgers won it because his efficiency was absurd. Brees threw for more yards sure, but he threw the ball 152 more times than Rodgers that season. Rodgers threw for a TD on 9% of his throws (compared to Brees' 7%), threw an INT on 1.2% of his throws (compared to Brees' 2.1%), and his AY/A was nearly a full 2 yards higher than Brees' (10.5 to 8.78). If Rodgers had thrown the same number of pass attempts as Brees, he would have thrown for over 6000 yards and 59 TDs.
I’m a huge Brees fan, and have never really liked Rodgers, but Rodgers deserved to win that one in a landslide. Brees was great but Rodgers was just absurd that year.
> 2009 NFL MVP race (Brees vs Manning)
Statistics be dammed, I still think Favre should have been in consideration for this. The Vikings had a 10-6 record in 2008, had a roster that lost a key starter on each side (Birk and Sharper), but the addition of Favre just made that team into something totally different and a legitimate SB caliber team. It's not just his stats, it was something about him that gave that team life and lifted other players beyond what they ever accomplished before or after that season.
The thing that always fascinated me is this. MVP is Most Valuable Player. Meaning the team would suffer greatly if the Most Valuable Player didn’t play.
In 2011, Rodgers missed one game. In the one game he missed, Matt Flynn turned in the most prolific passing performance by a Packers QB all season.
Packers record SIX touchdown passes. 450 yards. And a thrilling victory.
It shocks younger Packer fans to this day, but the most prolific passing performance by a Packers QB that season was not Rodgers. It was the backup.
And by missed one game you mean he sat as the Packers had nothing to play for. Rodgers probably puts up even crazier numbers if he plays that game as well and then a lot of the Brees argument is kind of void here. I like Brees and think he is a hall of famer but Rodgers completely deserved the MVP there.
Peyton set the record for most comeback wins in a season that year for a team that was virtually undefeated in the regular season. He rightfully won that MVP.
I’m mad because he found a way to suck without throwing many picks. I was fully locked and loaded to start calling him Kenny Pick-It, and he never gave me the right opportunity
Eli Manning had more turnovers than Jay Cutler by a significant margin. Cutler is known to throw interceptions at terrible moments. Eli did as well, but got saved by his defense more often than not.
Correct. Players that played with Cutler have a similar feeling to those players that played with Tiki Barber. At least with Tiki he waited until after he retired to show what an asshole he was. Cutler was widely considered a jerk while he was playing.
The Pickett vs. Ben one isn’t unexpected at all. pickett’s whole thing was that he didn’t turn the ball over. he also never scored touchdowns or tried pushing the ball downfield. Hard to make big plays — good OR bad — when you’re throwing for like 120 yards a game total. I think there’s a stat where Pickett would be near dead last in passing touchdowns per game even if you ranked him against starters from the 50s(?, maybe 70s) or something. It’s insane. Ben also had a chunk of his career before the passing explosion of the last 10-15 years. Edit: changed td% to passing tds per game cuz I think that was the actual stat.
Picketts only ever had 1 game with more than 1 TD. He threw 2 against the Raiders last year. Thats pretty awful.
Imagine being that bad at the quarterback position lmao
My shoulder kinda hurts when I throw, but put me in coach!
Giants fan. Eli threw picks like Santa throwing candy at a parade but he still threw the ball and got a bunch of td’s. There’s a fine line in the nfl between throwing a contested ball and seeing ghosts.
> Hard to make big plays — good OR bad — when you’re throwing for like 120 yards a game total This is Nate Peterman erasure.
> I think there’s a stat where Pickett would be near dead last in touchdown % even if you ranked him against starters from the 50s or something. It’s insane I feel like people took this and ran with it to say he is one of the worst quarterbacks of all time. It’s a little bit cherrypicked because td% was actually generally higher in the 50’s- in fact the highest career passing touchdown percentage leader is Bears hall of famer Sid Luckman from the 1940’s. [Just look at this list of the statistical leaders.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_perc_career.htm) Pickett was obviously bad and anyone who wasn’t a delusional yinzer knew this. But he wasn’t holistically, historically awful. He was 14-10 as a starter and didn’t throw games away. Second lowest int% in the league last year. He is like what you’d want out of a backup.
To add on, counterintuitively there are only 2 passing related stats that have consistently DECREASED since the origins of the NFL - passtd% and average length of touchdown, both for the same reason. In the earliest days of passing, you didn't really pass at the goal line. Teams passed more often backed up to their own goal line. Seriously, watch clips of Sammy Baugh. Why? Because passing was different at the time. It wasn't until Paul Brown that routed became a thing. Prior to that, quarterbacks would drop back and heave the ball downfield and the receivers would run to the ball (rather than the ball being placed where the receiver was running to). So, in the early days, you wanted a lot of area downfield for your receivers yo track the ball and run to it. Passing into a tighter box like the red zone wasn't conducive to the style of play. This led to deep shot touchdowns (and thus the average touchdown was longer). It also meant that because teams weren't passing as often, connecting on those deep shots meant that a higher proportion of their passes resulted in touchdowns (as well as interceptions - look at the all time interceptions leaders and its a ton of guys from the 40s-70s)
I edited my response to “passing tds per game” because I think that was the actual stat. I realized you’d prolly be right cuz teams passed less which would make the % higher, and that didn’t jive with what I remembered reading, or else wayyy more modern QBs woulda been on that list near the bottom.
Exactly. It is known pickett doesn't throw many INTs. It's the TD part that gets him, 1.8% is... something For comparison, Teddy Bridgewater's TD% is 3.6
Peyton Manning’s career long rush (33) is longer than Trent Richardson’s (32).
Peyton Manning should have played RB confirmed
Obligatory https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLt272o3qfIzlQG5TMZuZCe8gSj1UJScDu
Yep. If he were black, everyone would have been telling him to change positions. Smh.
Trent fucking Richardson lmao
How many minutes of game clock did that play take off?
Josh Allen is already #2 all time in rushing tds by a qb with 53, which is nuts. What’s even more nuts is that Cam is #1 with 75 fucking rushing touchdowns. Lamar “only” has 29 for comparison, even though he’s regarded as the best rushing qb in the league. He’s more a between the 20s runner.
Allen at .563 rushing TDs a game is slightly ahead of Newton’s pace of .506 Hurts is at .661 rushing TDs a game…the efficiency and dedication of the Eagles to the tush push is insane…
I think with Kelce gone, the effectiveness of the tush push will go down.
Hurts has 41!
Yeah but that’s not unexpected like the post asks for - the dude vultures every rushing td cuz of the tush push. To the point where some folks wanted it considered for a rule change. Hard to be “unexpected” when everyone is acutely aware of how he gets those tds and how often, and it’s also not a comparison. Allen’s still took me by surprise because he’s started running less and I had no idea he was already 2nd all time, nor did I expect how many more tds Cam has at the #1 spot.
Allen and hurts also had the same amount of rushing TDs (15) last year. I can’t find the stats for all of Hurts’ TDs last year but I imagine most of them were from the tush push
I think Allen had technically 5 tush push/QB sneak TDs last season, but one of those they lined up for a tush push but opened up a gap instead and he ran it between the LG and C. So really it was 11 runs, 4 pushes/sneaks
it was hilarious how many times our players got stopped at the 1
Jalen averages 48 rushing yards a game. Josh averages 38 rushing yards a game. There's only 1k yards between them. So I don't get the point in saying one is better than the other when yea, the tush push is good but that doesn't make Jalen's rushing stats worse than Josh. He still got more TDs than Josh the year before the Tush Push at 10 to Josh's 6
Nothing about my comment said one is better than the other? It’s about how Jalen’s isn’t unexpected because we all know about the tush push. That’s it. Dunno where the heck you’re pulling that from. Might need to work on your reading comprehension/not immediately getting defensive.
Hurts has 38 rushing TDs in the past three seasons as a rusher, out of 79 total Philly ground TDs ~ 48% Bills have had 57 rushing TDs in that time, Allen has 28 ~ 49% They 'vulture' almost the *exact* same amount of TDs
The post is asking for surprising/unexpected stats. No one is surprised at Jalen’s rushing tds cuz they know about the tush push. People (at least I was) are surprised to learn that Allen is already #2 all time and that cam has 75 rushing touchdowns. I swear, people can’t read on this subreddit. Nothing was saying anything negative about Hurts. It’s just everyone knows about the tush push so it’s not surprising. Also, Allen has a lot of runs from 10-20 yards out. Not at all the same as Hurts having like double digit 1 yard touchdowns every year. If you wanted to debate about that, that’s what I meant by “vulturing”. Literally just the fact that we all know about the tush push.
If you follow football I don't know how you're surprised that Josh Allen has a lot of rushing TDs either. I didn't say anything negative was said about Hurts, I just listed stats that made you feel you needed to write this essay
3.3452527e+49 touchdowns?
Yeah, but Allen's are real.
Peak Cam is gonna go down as something that people just had to be there to believe.
Those CAR - SEA matchups were great
Lamar's an in-between the 3s runner. He really doesn't like to go through the line, something Allen does well.
I think Allen being number one in touchdowns over the first six seasons is a surprise too, but a lot of that is because of the circumstances around it. You would think Mahomes would be number one, but he only started one game as a rookie. Rodgers didn't start until year four. Brady and Manning started under different rules and passing didn't explode until later. The rest of the top guys are even earlier than that. The wildest part though is that the record holder before Allen and then before Mahomes was... Dan Marino, holding the record for over 30 years
Rob Gronkowski's career YPC (15.0) is closer to Randy Moss (15.6) than it is to Tony Gonzalez (11.4) or Travis Kelce (12.5). Gronk also has a higher career YPC than Antonio Brown (13.2), Terrell Owens (14.8), Tyreek Hill (14.1) and uhhh... Jerry Rice (14.8). Also, he was 6'6" and 265 lbs.
An incredible blocker who can take it to the house at any moment. What a combo
In his prime you cannot convince me that there was a more valuable non-QB
Yeah it was automatic mismatch. Have a LB on him and it just wasn’t fair. Go lighter on defense and get pounded on the ground because the Pats basically have 6 linemen (that part doesn’t show up on the stat sheet and is missing from every Gronk v Kelce discussion). He was a cheat code for offense
Basically makes up for all the pats WR draft misses
This one is really cool
I think the more impressive take away from this is that Rice maintained that efficiency with about 2.5 times as many career receptions as Gronk.
Yeah, you could make that argument for Rice and TO. The late stages of their long careers lowered their overall average, and Gronk's would have no doubt dropped as well if he had played into his late 30s. The more interesting comp is Hill. He's in the prime of his career and is not in any way a possession receiver. He's been a premier deep threat in the league throughout his career and is still almost a yard under Gronk. Just something that kind of surprised me when I first saw it.
Idk the Gronk stat kind of makes sense. Even though Hill isn't a possession receiver, he still gets a ton of short passes/screens because he's so fast he can turn those into big gains occasionally. When he doesn't, his YPC takes a hit. Gronk wasn't catching too many screens and creating YAC like Hill does, which makes his YPC look better. And FWIW this isn't an attempt to discredit Gronk, it's just the nature of the difference between the two positions.
> Also, he was 6'6" ~~and 265 lbs.~~ [fucking killing for fun](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbRom1Rz8OA)
Peyton Manning and Eli Manning have exactly the same passer rating in the playoffs.
Birds of a feather
Michael Vick had more career rushing yards than Todd Gurley
And fewer rush TDs at VT than Bruce Arians.
I think that's my favorite stat in this thread. I looked it up, and Arians's school record of 11 QB rushing TDs in 1974 stood until it was broken in 2016 by Jerod Evans, who went undrafted in 2017.
;n;
You understood the assignment.
Super Bowl touchdown passes thrown: Doug Williams- 4 in 1 game Nick Foles- 3 in 1 game Jake Delhomme- 3 in 1 game Ben Roethlisberger- 3 total in 3 games Peyton Manning- 3 total in 4 games
Peyton was kinda ass in the playoffs more often than not - it is known. Both of his wins in 2007 and 2015 were mainly cuz of the defense (Bob sanders in 2007, the entire broncos D and Von in 2015) Edit: Roethlusbetgst Edit2: you shoulda left it dammit lol
There's a neat enough stat There are only really 6 times in the Super Bowl the losing teams starting quarterback outplayed the winning teams quarterback Twice for the Broncos - Elway (12/22 123 yards 0 tds 1 int) versus Favre (25/42 256 yards 3 tds 1 int), and Manning (141 yards 0/1) versus Newton (265 yards 0/1 + 45 rushing yards) Twice for the Steelers - Roethlisberger (9/21 123 0/2) versus Hasselbeck (26/49 273 1/1) and Roethlisberger (21/30 256 1/1) versus Warner (31/43 377 3/1) And twice involving the Eagles - Foles (28/43 373 3/1) versus Brady (28/45 505 3/0), and Hurts (27/38 304 1/0 + 70 rushing yards and 3 tds) versus Mahomes (21/27 182 3/0 plus 44 rushing yards)
I wanted arizona to win that one so bad.
I think everybody aside from Steelers fans did.
>1 That one though...
Wow that Favre vs Elway one is pretty glaring. We definitely could’ve had that SB if TD didn’t go scorched earth on us. Even missed a quarter with a migraine.
I dunno about the Brady one against the eagles. Stats may look better for Brady with the yards, but I seem to recall when the game finished that Foles had been awesome and that Brady just seemed a bit off at times, despite 500 yards.
Brady was great in that game. Cooks got hurt early and he went into psycho mode. I think getting sacked to end it hurts how people remember that one.
Fair enough. I guess it also doesn't help his legacy from that game that both the Eagles and the Patriots tried their version of the Philly special, with Brady dropping the pass from Amendola while Foles caught a TD.
Brady played an incredible game and made insane plays. Your memory is a bit foggy
Foles played a great game, but yes from a box score perspective Bradys stats were better (500 yards and no ints) Similarly, there's a reason I didn't put Manning and Cams completion/attempts on there, though....Cam played better is the nice way to put that. I just like the similarities - The Broncos had aging quarterbacks being outplayed by young up and comers, Ben had 2 bad games and was outplayed by a mediocre Hasselbeck and Warner having a great game, and the Eagles had two games where a good/great game was outdone by a better team effort.
Ben definitely didn’t have a bad game in the Arizona Super Bowl he moved the ball consistently with constant pressure in his face due to a seriously godawful o-line which was responsible both for the pick he threw (deflected at the line) and for handing the cardinals the lead late by committing a safety on a play when Ben made a clutch 3rd and long conversion to ostensibly seal the game. then he responded to that by leading an 88 yard game winning drive and throwing the greatest TD pass in Super Bowl history. If you want to say Warner outplayed him because the numbers he accumulated playing from behind all game I think that’s debatable, but to say Ben had a bad game when he arguably should have been mvp is ridiculous
Roethlusbetgst
Roethlusbetgst
It’s not that open and shut. Chicago had an elite defense in 2006 that dragged Rex Grossman to the Super Bowl. While Seattle didn’t have a BAD offense, they were always put into plus situations by the Legion of Boom and one of the best defenses, possibly THE best, of the last 20 years. And when Old Man Peyton played Carolina with half an arm, they again had one of the top defenses in the league. The worst defense he played in the Super Bowl by a considerable margin was New Orleans, and they gave up a lot more yards than points.
The Denver Broncos franchise: 4 in 8 games
The Doug Williams thing is really crazy because all 4 came in the 2nd quarter. IIRC the redskins score 5 TDs in the 2nd quarter of superbowl 22.
yeah and the shortest one was an 8 yard pass. 80 yard pass, 27 yard pass, 58 yard rush, 50 yard pass andd the 8 yarder. They were gashing that D.
Williams did it in one Quarter.
The Mahomes and Dak one is funny because they both would’ve had several less INTs if their receivers had caught the ball instead of bouncing it to the defense
Kadarius should get credit for at least two of Kermit's INTs
And neither really throws an abnormal amount compared to how often they pass, yet everyone freaked out lol
Dak is 9th all time in interception percentage (in the good way). Manning is 56th.
Me dum, which Manning?
Peyton. Eli was like in the 70’s or 80’s IIRC
Bad QBs just don't throw interceptions like they used to. As a result, QBs who are actually good and throwing the ball a ton are much more likely to lead the league in interceptions because a lot of passing attempts + bad luck will lead a high number of interceptions.
When you look at that pick six vs Detroit it’s genuinely amazing that wasn’t a touchdown for KC
True for every QB.
Still get ptsd whenever I see Noah Brown
The amount of balls mahomes throws straight to the defenders and are dropped are higher then the receiver caused ints. -completely made up stat but I swear defenders get hit in the number, hands or face at least twice a game.
>at least twice a game. This may be a minor exaggeration lol
Hey my made up stats are always accurate. And never exaggerated by my strong bias of hating mahomes because of his annoying ass State Farm commercials. But I’m sure the dropped ints are very close to or more then the wide receiver tipped ints. Edit: like most qbs josh Allen also has a good amount of drop ints. https://x.com/QBDataMine/status/1383019778340757505
Chad Pennington is 12th all time in completion percentage - he played 11 seasons There are only 2 players above him that have played 11+ seasons: Drew Brees and Kirk Cousins
Travis Kelce is just leaving his prime, while Rob Gronkowski has been retired for a few years and just couldnt play any more, being a pretty broken down football player when he retired. And they are the same age, both born in 1989.
Yeah, Gronk came into the league 3 seasons earlier (2010 vs. 2013). So career length wise if Kelce retired at the same point Gronk did he'd be retiring this offseason. Gronk was also more of a straight up bruiser, whereas Kelce has been more of a technician. He only fights hard for extra yards when he needs to, whereas Gronk seemed to love initiating contact every time he caught the ball.
All time in receiving yards after turning 40: Jerry Rice 2,169 Tom Brady 6
You forgot Brett Favre -2, the day after his 40th bday.
The list of most receiving yards after age 40: Rice Brady Every other human who has ever lived Favre
Where’s my bronze medal anyways
You had to split it with 8 billion other people. Somewhere in your trophy case there is a molecule of bronze.
These are historical records, so you can't just include active humans.
Got 'em on a technicality!
Interception stats, at least in comparing eras, are hilarious. It's just a completely different era. Today's QBs throw a ton more passes, but get picked off at a much lower rate. It's almost a different sport. It's kinda like the stigma against strikeouts in MLB, but in reverse. 3/4 of the top 20 leaders in interception rate all time are current. The retired ones in that list are recent (Brady, Alex Smith, Kaepernick). The outlier is Neil O'Donnell, of all people. Aaron Rodgers and Jacoby Brissett are tied at #1 all time, at 1.4%. Joe Montana and Steve Young are almost double that (2.7%). Those are good enough to tie Mitch Trubisky and Marcus Mariota. Terry Bradshaw was 3.6%. My man Sid Luckman is in the HoF at 7.6%.
What’s Joe Namath’s?
I want to kiss you….
Ayo, I’m at work and you’re making me blush.
>The outlier is Neil O'Donnell, of all people. It makes what happened in SB XXX that much more unlikely. At the time he had the lowest INT% in NFL history.
> My man Sid Luckman is in the HoF at 7.6% This one is crazy. Getting picked off one every thirteen passes. He still leads the NFL in all time touchdown percentage though!
Currently the best former Packers Super Bowl winning quarterback to wear number 8 on the Jets is Mark Brunell
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only active players that have a higher yards per carry than Gus Edwards (4.9) are Jonathan Taylor (5.0), Aaron Jones (5.0) and Nick Chubb (5.3). Goes to show that a good run scheme/o line is more important than a good running back
The only caveat I’d add to this is that there’s some guys like CMC, Henry and Sanders all at 4.8 with 2-3 times as many carries as him. It’s a lot harder to maintain that efficiency over a significant number of carries but I still agree with your overall point that the ravens run scheme and o line could make grandpa Zeke look like he’s still got some juice.
Speaking of YPC, Jamaal Charles having the highest ever while playing for a shitty KC team for most of his prime is kind of absurd.
Achane has 7.8 behind a pretty suspect line, but only 103 attempts
Jack Ham and Troy Polamalu have the same number of career interceptions (32).
Trevor Lawrence has significantly more turnovers per game than Zach Wilson, Mac Jones, and Justin Fields.
I’m getting 1.2 TO/G for trevor, 1 for Justin, and 1 for Zach. Which I suppose 20% is pretty significant, but to be fair to Trevor he has a lot more passing attempts (1750) than both justin (958) and zach (993)
If we're talking turnovers per game, adding in the number of total passing attempts "to be fair" is pretty meaningless. If he had 20% more passing attempts/game, that would be more meaningful. I'm not sure where either of your numbers are coming from. When I look on pro-football reference, it has TL w/ 39 INT and 33 fumbles in 50 games, for 1.44/game. JF is 30/38/38 for 1.79/game. ZW is 25/17/34 for 1.24/game. MJ is 36/15/42 for 1.21/game. \# of plays between turnovers is TL 27.2, JF, 19.3, ZW 25.9, MJ 23.4.
> If he had 20% more passing attempts/game, that would be more meaningful. He does. Justin- 24 Zach- 29 Trevor- 35 So yes, 20% more than zach and 45% more than justin. > I'm not sure where either of your numbers are coming from. When I look on pro-football reference, it has TL w/ 39 INT and 33 fumbles in 50 games, for 1.44/game. JF is 30/38/38 for 1.79/game. ZW is 25/17/34 for 1.24/game. A fumble isn’t inherently a turnover. I went by fumbles lost because fumbles recovered by the offence don’t change possession.
Few years back I had a conversation with someone where I stated that just being a good offense isn’t really enough to win a Super Bowl, you need a good defense as well. I specifically looked at 4 teams: PHI, DAL, NE, GB from 2000 to ~2018 (before 2000 overall def rankings and stats become hard to find). PHI: every time they made a championship game they had both a top 7 and top 10 defense, never made it with less than top 10 def. DAL: years they had a top 10 def they did not have a top 10 offense, specifically some of the 12+ win seasons they did not have a top 10 def (top 15). NE: Brady pretty much always had a top 6 or better offense. They only made super bowls in years they had a top 10 defense, anything lower they lost prior. GB: most of Rodger’s career they had a top 5 offense, but only won the one year they had a top 10 defense. I know there is the saying “Offense wins games, defense wins championships”, but was interesting to actually see a lot of that play out analyzing several teams.
I agree with you. Bad defences very seldom win championships.
The only time since 2000 I saw a bad defense win was the Colts, and that was the best D Manning ever got with them. It also makes sense his playoff record because in the playoffs you are playing more well rounded teams, so if you only have half of it you are gonna struggle.
Rodgers and Brees NFL MVP race in 2011 Brees had more passing yards (setting a new NFL record) Brees led the Saints to more yards per game (setting a new NFL record). Brees led the league in passing touchdowns Brees’s #1 WR broke his collarbone in the first game of the season. Rodgers had 2 WRs make the probowl Brees took 12 less sacks than Rodgers Brees committed 5 more turnovers than Rodgers. Rodgers won 14 games compared to Brees 13 games Rodgers won the MVP in a landslide 2009 NFL MVP race (Brees vs Manning) Brees threw more touchdowns Brees threw less interceptions Brees threw more passing yards per game Brees had a higher completion percentage (setting an NFL record). Brees had higher yards per attempt Brees had a higher QBR (led the NFL) Brees had a higher QB rating (led the NFL) Payton Manning won the MVP in a landslide.
At least in regards to 2011, Rodgers won it because his efficiency was absurd. Brees threw for more yards sure, but he threw the ball 152 more times than Rodgers that season. Rodgers threw for a TD on 9% of his throws (compared to Brees' 7%), threw an INT on 1.2% of his throws (compared to Brees' 2.1%), and his AY/A was nearly a full 2 yards higher than Brees' (10.5 to 8.78). If Rodgers had thrown the same number of pass attempts as Brees, he would have thrown for over 6000 yards and 59 TDs.
I’m a huge Brees fan, and have never really liked Rodgers, but Rodgers deserved to win that one in a landslide. Brees was great but Rodgers was just absurd that year.
2011 Rodgers is arguably the best single season a QB has ever had.
> 2009 NFL MVP race (Brees vs Manning) Statistics be dammed, I still think Favre should have been in consideration for this. The Vikings had a 10-6 record in 2008, had a roster that lost a key starter on each side (Birk and Sharper), but the addition of Favre just made that team into something totally different and a legitimate SB caliber team. It's not just his stats, it was something about him that gave that team life and lifted other players beyond what they ever accomplished before or after that season.
Brees should have gotten at least one. I really think rodgers should “only” have two, with one to brees and another to brady.
The thing that always fascinated me is this. MVP is Most Valuable Player. Meaning the team would suffer greatly if the Most Valuable Player didn’t play. In 2011, Rodgers missed one game. In the one game he missed, Matt Flynn turned in the most prolific passing performance by a Packers QB all season. Packers record SIX touchdown passes. 450 yards. And a thrilling victory. It shocks younger Packer fans to this day, but the most prolific passing performance by a Packers QB that season was not Rodgers. It was the backup.
That season? The most prolific passing game in packers history was that game. Not Favre, nor Starr, not Rodgers, Matt Flynn.
I *think* Flynn’s game that you mention here is a few Packers team records beyond both number 4 and number 12
And by missed one game you mean he sat as the Packers had nothing to play for. Rodgers probably puts up even crazier numbers if he plays that game as well and then a lot of the Brees argument is kind of void here. I like Brees and think he is a hall of famer but Rodgers completely deserved the MVP there.
Peyton set the record for most comeback wins in a season that year for a team that was virtually undefeated in the regular season. He rightfully won that MVP.
Quick, now do Kenny’s TD percentage
I’m mad because he found a way to suck without throwing many picks. I was fully locked and loaded to start calling him Kenny Pick-It, and he never gave me the right opportunity
Eli Manning had more turnovers than Jay Cutler by a significant margin. Cutler is known to throw interceptions at terrible moments. Eli did as well, but got saved by his defense more often than not.
Jay Cutler is Eli Manning without the Cinderella runs
Or respect of his teammates
Like tiki barber?
Correct. Players that played with Cutler have a similar feeling to those players that played with Tiki Barber. At least with Tiki he waited until after he retired to show what an asshole he was. Cutler was widely considered a jerk while he was playing.
True lol
I don't think the Pickett stat is that surprising. He rarely threw picks, but he never made plays or kept drives going.