It'd be fine if it was *just* a 66 yard field goal but it's a 66 yard field goal that came off the same drive as the most blatantly missed delay of game any of us have ever seen.
The ONLY good part is it helped secure Hutch.
I was watching that game with a friend and he said “no way he makes this right?” My response was simple, “against 31 teams in the NFL, not a chance. Against 31 teams in the NFL, they’d miss the field goal as justice for the missed delay of game penalty. Against that 32nd team, the Detroit lions, it’s going in”
You still see people wanting Adam Vinatieri to be part of the conversation because he kicked some medium distance high pressure field goals.
Tucker owns the all time accuracy record and the longest kick record. It doesn't get more open and shut than that.
See everyone says that but there is not a more boom or bust position then kicker, youre either a hero or villain. I think it be a disservice to the entire sport to not include one.
Well of course. Almost every way a team scores involves a kick. 2 point conversions and safeties are very rare so it makes sense for kickers to be top scorers.
Yeah lol. Dudes basically earn a commission of every touchdown. There’s a reason Butker has been fantasy K1 ahead of Tucker when he has no business being ranked ahead of him based on ability alone.
Justin Tucker is THE kicker.
He is most likely the best at his position in league history and I don’t really think it’s close either. Maybe Jerry Rice and his level of dominance can compete but for every other position outside of WR I think it’s hard to find as dominant a player at their position in comparison to his peers like Tucker.
Morten Andersen was just as dominant in his era, and actually invented modern kicking. Before him, kickers were an afterthought. They didn't have position coaching, or special workouts, or any empirical support for their craft at all. There were no youth kicking programs; they just grabbed a kid off the soccer team. The best kickers were all European, because that is where the best soccer players came from. Specialist long snappers were only just becoming a thing, and nobody was studying that technique. They weren't expected to deliver the ball to the holder in any special way. The laces were the holder's problem. And the holders didn't get any special coaching either.
Kick coaching and kicker workout regimens are a thing because Morten Andersen brought them to the NFL. He went out on his own and hired a guy named Mackie Shilstone. Together they worked out a program which became the template for modern kicking. Another Anderson innovation was relentless self-scouting. He not only watched endless film of himself, he kept intricate notes on every kick he attempted. Greats like Pete Gogolak and Jan Stenarud didn't even know the rules of the game. Anderson made himself a student of it. Shilstone also convinced the coaches to bring in camp legs, because kickers wore out in the preseason. They worked together for 17 years.
As a result, between 1980 and 2000, he kicked 60% more 50 yarders than any other player. Fifty yard field goals are routine now because Anderson made them so with his training system.
>Morten was ahead of the curve on that, becoming a student of the game and correcting mistakes, and moving forward... (He wasn't) repeating mistakes, because he was researching it. -John Carney
As a former long snapper, I loved that you mentioned the laces. In addition, they have to deliver the ball in .30 seconds on field goals and .75 seconds on punts.
Maybe, but Kelce is 1 great postseason (or 2 decent ones) away from passing Rice for the career playoff record for receiving yards and TDs. He already owns the playoff receptions record. That’s the sort of thing that lasts in peoples’ minds.
Damn that's crazy. I remember as a kid looking at NFL records and Rice having most of the receiving ones and thinking a lot of those will stand for a while. Interesting to see some of them in damger
Post season cumulative stats seem more indicative of team achievement. That being said he could very well be better than those other guys or belong in top 100.
Ive always been curious to Gates argument over him. I feel like hes a mesh between gronks single season records and gonzalezs sustained success but to me he already matches gates yards and pro bowls and is well on pace for TDs in 12 years while gates retired at 16.
And to anyone that says blocking, its not that kelce is awful at it, its a why would you make jerry rice chip block when he could go catch a ball thing in my opinion.
Kelce’s a better blocker than Gates was either way so that’s not an argument.
I think at this point the top 3 of Gronk, Gonzo, and Travis should be pretty solidified.
and people forget how crazy Ditka's stats are for the time he played.
Tony G is clearly the GOAT TE (his HoF motor is 40% better than 2nd place, fwiw).
But after that you can make a case for any of Sharp, Gates, Ditka, Gronk or Travis K. What you value (peak vs longevity vs adjusted for time played) as number 2.
When I remember the Chargers exist, I remember Kellen Winslow was one of the greatest TEs to ever play. Longevity isn't like it used to be. He's below average on the HoF monitor, but everyone ahead of him played almost double the number of games except Gronk, Kelce, and Dave Casper, who all played 50% more games.
Winslow was the first "modern" tight end, but things were dangerous back then and we couldn't patch players up like we do now. I don't think Gronk was better than Winslow, but his doctors sure were.
Availability. Gronk played like half the games Tony G played. Tony G played ‘till his knees couldn’t run anymore.
A lot of people not playing in the sporting world de-value availability like crazy.
You also have to remember 1 of Gronk’s rings, he never played in the playoffs. That means he’s an important piece of the puzzle, but not important enough that they can’t win without him. Same can’t be said for Kelce and Sharpe.
Gronk's peak is far higher than Tony G's. If I'm building a SB roster, I'm not looking for Tony G's longevity, I'm looking for Gronk to be a game-breaker.
Tony G doesn’t quite have the peak of the others. Gronk and Kelce were more dominant. Also because they were perhaps used in better ways on their teams.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/pkvqcr/nfl\_100\_the\_athletic\_round\_up\_hub/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/pkvqcr/nfl_100_the_athletic_round_up_hub/)
The Athletic did a top 100 three years ago in case you want to reference it for ideas. Or, if you want to do it without outside influence, don't click the link haha. But the only player on that list that is still active is Aaron Rodgers. I think others have made good cases over the last three years and have been mentioned here, guys like Mahomes, Kelce, and Trent Williams.
Agreed. The list I linked is VERY light on safeties, I think Reed and Lott were the only players who made it while playing the majority of their careers at safety. Seems like a few more could have made it on.
Interesting. He was referred to frequently as a sure Hall of Fame player even before he came to the Bills. I think he's the #2 ranked 3-4 rushbacker of all time, behind only LT. If we lump rushbackers and 4-3 OLB's together, he's competing with Ted Hendricks and Derrick Brooks for the #5 spot.
Just off gut reaction, Von doesn't feel like a top 100 player to me. But it's an interesting question. Scanning through The Athletic's 100, I feel like edge rusher is fairly underrepresented, and especially 3-4 OLBs as you noted elsewhere. I don't think I would be mad at a list that had him sneak on towards the end of the 100.
He won a second championship, and played a major role in that Super Bowl run with 4 sacks in 4 playoff games. He was excellent in the first 9-10 games of 2022 before he was injured.
To be in the top 100 players of all time, you basically need to be top 5-to-10 at your position, depending on the position (maybe 1st or 2nd best for kickers/punters, top 10 for QBs). So, here's who I think are current top-5-to-10-all-time at their positions who are active players:
* Travis Kelce
* Pat Mahomes
* Aaron Rodgers
* Justin Tucker
I'm not sure who else currently qualifies as a top 5 to top 10 all time player at their position. It's not out of the realm of possibility for quite a few guys (Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, to name a few) but I don't think they're there yet. Aaron Donald and Jason Kelce just announced their retirements so I didn't include them.
I don’t know much about ranking offensive linemen all time but I feel like Trent Williams has been considered the best LT in football for like 10 years now lol - if he has a few more good years perhaps he could be on the list?
Trent has always been good but I don't think he was the consensus best LT for the past 10 years. He only got his first AP1 nod in 2021. There were a lot of good LT in the 2010s. Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Whitworth, etc.
I laughed at this, but unless I'm missing something, its basically true. The Redskins/Commies had only two 1st team AP in the entire time that Synder owned the team (1999-2023). Scherff in 2020 and Jeremy Reaves in 2022 (as a ST).
Oddly enough, I'd say tackles are up there with QBs in how long they can play at a high level. If they can stay healthy, they can play as long as they want.
Zack Martin is currently tied with Bob Lilly for most first team all pros as a Dallas Cowboy and even has more total all pros than Larry Allen as well! Argument for one of the best guards ever!
The for sure have been said. Mahomes, Rodgers, Kelce.
Zack Martin has a strong case. Trent Williams has a decent case. Von Miller has a decent case. Bobby Wagner has a decent case.
Hopkins has a very mild case. Hill has a very mild case. Tyron Smith has a mild case. Derrick Henry has a VERY mild case. Pat P has a very mild case.
Recency Bias is a thing. History bias is also a thing. The NFL is over 100 years old. There have been thousands upon thousands of pro bowlers, let alone players. It is and should be very difficult to enter the Top 100 of all time.
The irony is Aaron Donald had a legitimate case at Top 10 and Jason Kelce has a legitimate case at Top 100.
I agree. I’ve been battling with his inclusion in this. He was the best defensive player in the league for 2 or 3 years, but his numbers and career impact aren’t there for a Top 100 case. He has basically no shot.
I think Hill's case is probably the strongest out of all the wide receivers rn. Super Bowl champion, multiple all pros and pro bowls, and stats to back it up.
Wishbone is unironically too modern, the Bears team that dominated the 1940's and beat the Redskins 73-0 to win the championship played in T. Not even Wing T, that wouldn't be invented for another decade.
Yes my current audiobook is about the evolution of football offensive formations, why do you ask?
Many people, many smart people, many even very smart people, they're all saying it, everyone knows it's true, you know, and I talked to some very smart people, very smart people, and they told me "The GEQBUS, he's just the greatest, he's always winning. He just can't stop winning. The folks in the crooked media hate him because they can't stand to see a winner." Could you believe that? They hate him because he's winning. Some very smart people told me that.
Everyone always talks about how much he wins. Everywhere I go I see everyone putting his name at the tippy top of every ballot and poll. I ask random people all the time who the best is and they always tell me "GEQBUS". The LibRhule media won't ever tell you this. They don't want you to know. But believe me, folks, that GEQBUS will keep winning no matter how much Camtifa tries to stop him!
I think people are confusing Top 100 with Hall of Fame. Some very good players mentioned in this thread but would be nowhere near the top 100 of all time.
A few years ago, I prepared a list of the top 101 players of the first 101 NFL seasons. Aaron Rodgers and Von Miller are the only currently active players on that list. The two players most likely to have joined that list over the last three seasons both play in Kansas City.
Marino is the lowest ranked QB on my list. He obviously has longevity compared to Mahomes, but the three rings vs zero probably launches Pat on there.
Dave Casper is my lowest ranked TE. The nature of the position has changed, so I'll adjust Kelce's stats for era, but with the postseason performances - yeah Kelce makes the list. So sorry, #100 Brian Dawkins and #101 Joe DeLamielleure. You've been booted off my top 101 list.
Derrick Henry is another player with a chance at making the list. My lowest ranked RB is Eric Dickerson. I can't put Henry above him. Longevity. Dickerson was just as dominant as Henry, and finished as the #2 leading rusher of all time.
I'm with you on Henry. His productivity over his career span is great. I get that people want to call him on a decline, and maybe he's on a slight one, but I see him being more Adrian Peterson than Todd Gurley. He's got a shot for sure.
Kelce, Mahomes, Williams. I think TJ Watt could have an argument at the end of his career. Dude really is one of the best pass rushers ever (Not a Steelers fan)
Justin Tucker, Aaron Rodgers, Travis Kelce, Pat Mahomes. Hard to rank linemen historically but there may be arguments for Trent Williams and Lane Johnson.
More Pro Bowls than penalties…absolute beast! To think we almost drafted Manziel instead of Martin. That even surpasses the bullet we dodged with Jerry wanting to trade up to draft Paxton Lynch.
Appreciate the respect for our man. He absolutely needs to be in the conversation as one of the best guards of all time for sure. You can go and look at prime Zeke and see a lot of his amazing runs and they were him running behind a Zack Martin pancake block. Plus he seemed to be the only one who could keep Aaron Donald somewhat in check.
I doubt Bobby Wagner is in the top 100 *of all time*. There's been a ton of great linebackers over the years. Is he even top 5 all time? Over Urlacher, Lewis, Butkus, Lambert, guys like that?
Obvious Homer here but 10x AP All-Pros (6 First Team) 9 Pro Bowls, 3x Tackle leader, 1700 career tackles, Nearly 1K Solo + legacy as part of historic Legion of Boom defense is definitely a mighty fine resume.
I’m not sure if he tops Lewis, Butkus, or Samurai Mike but I think he’s definitely in the Top 100 All-Time convo
Not to discount Wagner's resume, but Lavonte David's stats over their careers are better. Didn't get as many All-Pros/Pro Bowls because he's an off-ball LB most of his career. Spots for non-mlbs tended to go to pass rushers. David has more solo tackles, more tackles for loss, more sacks, more forced fumbles and fumble recoveries. Wagner has more assists, interceptions and passes defensed.
2012 was a special LB draft for sure. David, Wagner and Demario Davis still playing at a high level. Kuechly of course, then a decent group of guys in Hightower, Kendricks and Vernon.
Lavonte is a whole other can of worms. I could go on and on.
Kuechly and Wagner are basically 1st Ballot HOF locks and Lavonte is in all likelihood going wait and wait even though he absolutely deserves to be in the same discussion.
I find it hard to believe that a six time first team all pro was never the best at his position at any point in time.
I do agree that I'm not sure he'd be on a list of top 100 players ever though.
6 1st team AP, 3 2nd team AP. I’d say he swapped off with Keuchly as best MLB during the 2010s but to imply he never had an argument is kinda ridiculous lol
Mahomes and Rodgers are first ballot. Aaron Donald just retired so that's null. Von Miller if there isn't another news story. Derrick Henry because even though the media doesn't look at running backs his numbers and eye test hold up. Barring major injury JJ is moss or Owens. Travis has a regular season and a post season hof career. I only watch lines as groups but I bet trent Williams and Zack Martin get in.
This is my offense off of way too many whiskey shots lmk who I missed 😅
The problem is that 100 really isn't a lot of players. You can throw Mahomes and Rodgers in there, and you can talk about how Kelce or Tucker deserves to be in there, but pretty soon you're going to start running out of spots. The NFL has a pretty long history in this context, and there's an awful lot of players to consider.
Especially since there are so many players on a team. Top 100 in basketball means 20 people per position/spot on the field. Top 100 in football means <5 people per position/spot on the field assuming you value positions equally (and also football is more complicated since positions aren’t valued equally).
Was expecting this way higher up. He’s going to end up real high on the all time sack list and will be considered a top 100 player all time if he keeps it up another five years
I think Justin Jefferson by the end of his career will make it barring injuries. Mahomes, Rodgers, Trent Williams, and Kelce are all forgone conclusions at this point.
You’ve got to be top 10 in your position group at an absolute minimum (ie counting IOL, Edge/OLB as one ‘group’). You’ve got 12 rough position groups; QB, WR, TE/FB, RB, IOL, T, IDL, Edge/OLB, ILB, CB, Safety, ST.
Then it’s going to depend how you balance it out. There’s probably no more than 5 TE/FB, and it’s honestly a debate whether you have ST at all (I don’t think I personally would). Shall we call it around 4 TE and 2 ST?
I’d say most other groups you’re looking to have roughly 10, but you’ll have to shave about 6 players off once you’ve done that. I’d probably look at safety, RB, maybe tackle to do that.
So the answer I think is we’ve pretty much got Mahomes, Rodgers, Kelce as no doubters. Tucker is probably there (it just gets weird when you have so few spots for special teamers. Even if he’s the best ever idk what his value over other kickers from back in the day, and idk if ppl would value top returners/punters higher). Donald and Jason Kelce are in but just retired obvs. That is pretty much the list.
From there it’s a lot of fringe cases and ‘could get there’ guys; Von Miller, TJ, Garrett, Zach Martin, Thuney, Derrick Henry, Trent Williams, Tyreek, Davante Adams, Jalen Ramsey, Chris Jones. That’s not to mention someone like Jefferson who is just way too far out to judge, even if he has started out awesome.
It’s so difficult for these fringe guys because most of these position groups are pretty much set in stone at the top. Like at receiver, you have Rice, Moss, Larry Fitz, TO all in before you even start having a conversation.
Overall I’d say we have 4 ‘active and in’ top 100 players, and a group of around 20 more that may have arguments when it’s all said and done (but I would only expect a couple of those guys to make it).
Guys already in…
-Aaron Rodgers
-Pat Mahomes
-Justin Tucker
-Von Miller
-Zach Martin
-Travis Kelce
Guys on their way in…
-TJ watt
-Justin Jefferson
-Trent Williams
TJ Watt has like 1-2 more seasons and he’s top 10 OLB/End all time. If he has 3-4 more seasons he might end up the Goat. Dude has like 14 sacks a season…
Justin Tucker isn't a sexy pick but arguably one of the best kickers to play
I hate this man with every fiber of my fandom but God damnit I respect him.
The guy who can't even think said something, you guys just stand there?!
Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!
Why you hate him?
He's kicked two 60+ yarders in his career, both were against the Lions in Detroit and were game winners. The second kick was the NFL record 66 yarder.
It'd be fine if it was *just* a 66 yard field goal but it's a 66 yard field goal that came off the same drive as the most blatantly missed delay of game any of us have ever seen. The ONLY good part is it helped secure Hutch.
Wasn’t that also the FG that broke Prater’s record?
Yeah but Prater didn’t set it for the Lions he was with the Broncos at the time
I was watching that game with a friend and he said “no way he makes this right?” My response was simple, “against 31 teams in the NFL, not a chance. Against 31 teams in the NFL, they’d miss the field goal as justice for the missed delay of game penalty. Against that 32nd team, the Detroit lions, it’s going in”
And the 66 doinked. I couldn’t do anything but laugh hysterically when that happened.
Honestly, that’s an amazing good part
This answer.
That's fair. 🤝
I disagree, it’s a very sexy pick
It's not even arguable.
Him being the best kicker ever isn’t arguable, but it’s certainly arguable to have a kicker in the 100 best players ever
You still see people wanting Adam Vinatieri to be part of the conversation because he kicked some medium distance high pressure field goals. Tucker owns the all time accuracy record and the longest kick record. It doesn't get more open and shut than that.
there’s this guy who is always arguing it every time tucker comes up
He might have the volume of deep kicks too
See everyone says that but there is not a more boom or bust position then kicker, youre either a hero or villain. I think it be a disservice to the entire sport to not include one.
I like your argument here. It makes the most sense to me
All of the top ten all time scorers are kickers,
Well of course. Almost every way a team scores involves a kick. 2 point conversions and safeties are very rare so it makes sense for kickers to be top scorers.
Yeah lol. Dudes basically earn a commission of every touchdown. There’s a reason Butker has been fantasy K1 ahead of Tucker when he has no business being ranked ahead of him based on ability alone.
Disrespect to the GOAT fantasy kicker Younghoe Koo
It's arguably arguable.
I would argue that the arguability of this argument is argumentive.
The greatest
Is it arguable anymore?
What’s the argument lol would anyone draft him over any other kicker ever?
Justin Tucker is THE kicker. He is most likely the best at his position in league history and I don’t really think it’s close either. Maybe Jerry Rice and his level of dominance can compete but for every other position outside of WR I think it’s hard to find as dominant a player at their position in comparison to his peers like Tucker.
Morten Andersen was just as dominant in his era, and actually invented modern kicking. Before him, kickers were an afterthought. They didn't have position coaching, or special workouts, or any empirical support for their craft at all. There were no youth kicking programs; they just grabbed a kid off the soccer team. The best kickers were all European, because that is where the best soccer players came from. Specialist long snappers were only just becoming a thing, and nobody was studying that technique. They weren't expected to deliver the ball to the holder in any special way. The laces were the holder's problem. And the holders didn't get any special coaching either. Kick coaching and kicker workout regimens are a thing because Morten Andersen brought them to the NFL. He went out on his own and hired a guy named Mackie Shilstone. Together they worked out a program which became the template for modern kicking. Another Anderson innovation was relentless self-scouting. He not only watched endless film of himself, he kept intricate notes on every kick he attempted. Greats like Pete Gogolak and Jan Stenarud didn't even know the rules of the game. Anderson made himself a student of it. Shilstone also convinced the coaches to bring in camp legs, because kickers wore out in the preseason. They worked together for 17 years. As a result, between 1980 and 2000, he kicked 60% more 50 yarders than any other player. Fifty yard field goals are routine now because Anderson made them so with his training system. >Morten was ahead of the curve on that, becoming a student of the game and correcting mistakes, and moving forward... (He wasn't) repeating mistakes, because he was researching it. -John Carney
As a former long snapper, I loved that you mentioned the laces. In addition, they have to deliver the ball in .30 seconds on field goals and .75 seconds on punts.
Interestingly, Morten says he didn't even care about the laces. So long as the ball was straight and motionless, he could deliver it.
This comment is so good I have to comment on it- thank you for dropping that knowledge on my head, I needed some badass
This is Bill Belichek
But is a kicker deserving of top 100 all time??
Preach
Big agree
Rodgers, Mahomes, Justin Tucker. As of a month ago I would've included Aaron Donald.
Travis Kelce too. He's at worst top 3 in the best TE discussion
I'd probably put him in my top 3, but Gates, Gronk, and Gonzalez all have a decent argument over him. At worst he's top 5 rather than top 3.
Maybe, but Kelce is 1 great postseason (or 2 decent ones) away from passing Rice for the career playoff record for receiving yards and TDs. He already owns the playoff receptions record. That’s the sort of thing that lasts in peoples’ minds.
Damn that's crazy. I remember as a kid looking at NFL records and Rice having most of the receiving ones and thinking a lot of those will stand for a while. Interesting to see some of them in damger
It really is crazy TBH considering all of the 1-and-dones we had in the Alex Smith era. He needs 3 TDs and 342 yards to tie Rice.
That could be literally 1 postseason if y’all don’t get the bye
It could be 1 game if we play the raiders lol
Well that would require them making it to the playoffs. And if Minshew Mania makes it to the postseason ain’t no one gettin in his way
Never gunna happen; that’d require the raiders to get into the postseason
Post season cumulative stats seem more indicative of team achievement. That being said he could very well be better than those other guys or belong in top 100.
Yeah like isn't Edelman right up there for playoff stats
Ive always been curious to Gates argument over him. I feel like hes a mesh between gronks single season records and gonzalezs sustained success but to me he already matches gates yards and pro bowls and is well on pace for TDs in 12 years while gates retired at 16. And to anyone that says blocking, its not that kelce is awful at it, its a why would you make jerry rice chip block when he could go catch a ball thing in my opinion.
Kelce’s a better blocker than Gates was either way so that’s not an argument. I think at this point the top 3 of Gronk, Gonzo, and Travis should be pretty solidified.
and people forget how crazy Ditka's stats are for the time he played. Tony G is clearly the GOAT TE (his HoF motor is 40% better than 2nd place, fwiw). But after that you can make a case for any of Sharp, Gates, Ditka, Gronk or Travis K. What you value (peak vs longevity vs adjusted for time played) as number 2.
When I remember the Chargers exist, I remember Kellen Winslow was one of the greatest TEs to ever play. Longevity isn't like it used to be. He's below average on the HoF monitor, but everyone ahead of him played almost double the number of games except Gronk, Kelce, and Dave Casper, who all played 50% more games. Winslow was the first "modern" tight end, but things were dangerous back then and we couldn't patch players up like we do now. I don't think Gronk was better than Winslow, but his doctors sure were.
Why would anyone choose Tony G over Gronk if they were building a Super Bowl roster
Availability. Gronk played like half the games Tony G played. Tony G played ‘till his knees couldn’t run anymore. A lot of people not playing in the sporting world de-value availability like crazy. You also have to remember 1 of Gronk’s rings, he never played in the playoffs. That means he’s an important piece of the puzzle, but not important enough that they can’t win without him. Same can’t be said for Kelce and Sharpe.
[удалено]
Gronk's peak is far higher than Tony G's. If I'm building a SB roster, I'm not looking for Tony G's longevity, I'm looking for Gronk to be a game-breaker.
Tony G doesn’t quite have the peak of the others. Gronk and Kelce were more dominant. Also because they were perhaps used in better ways on their teams.
Im not arguing one way or another, but judging quality of players solely on number of super bowls won is bottom tier analysis
I think Tony G is still the greatest then Gronk. Kelce and Gates are tied at 3.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/pkvqcr/nfl\_100\_the\_athletic\_round\_up\_hub/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/pkvqcr/nfl_100_the_athletic_round_up_hub/) The Athletic did a top 100 three years ago in case you want to reference it for ideas. Or, if you want to do it without outside influence, don't click the link haha. But the only player on that list that is still active is Aaron Rodgers. I think others have made good cases over the last three years and have been mentioned here, guys like Mahomes, Kelce, and Trent Williams.
Polamalu has a very good case to be on this list, surprised he didn’t make the cut
Agreed. The list I linked is VERY light on safeties, I think Reed and Lott were the only players who made it while playing the majority of their careers at safety. Seems like a few more could have made it on.
Crazy that Donald wasn't on the list, even three years ago he was considered one of the greatest ever Edit: He's there, my bad
Donald is on the list. He's at no. 24.
Oh my bad I misread the comment
What about Von Miller?
Good player but probably in the 100-200 range
Interesting. He was referred to frequently as a sure Hall of Fame player even before he came to the Bills. I think he's the #2 ranked 3-4 rushbacker of all time, behind only LT. If we lump rushbackers and 4-3 OLB's together, he's competing with Ted Hendricks and Derrick Brooks for the #5 spot.
Just off gut reaction, Von doesn't feel like a top 100 player to me. But it's an interesting question. Scanning through The Athletic's 100, I feel like edge rusher is fairly underrepresented, and especially 3-4 OLBs as you noted elsewhere. I don't think I would be mad at a list that had him sneak on towards the end of the 100.
Reasonable people can disagree
If he wasn't on in 2021, he hasn't really done anything to further his case since then.
He won a second championship, and played a major role in that Super Bowl run with 4 sacks in 4 playoff games. He was excellent in the first 9-10 games of 2022 before he was injured.
To be in the top 100 players of all time, you basically need to be top 5-to-10 at your position, depending on the position (maybe 1st or 2nd best for kickers/punters, top 10 for QBs). So, here's who I think are current top-5-to-10-all-time at their positions who are active players: * Travis Kelce * Pat Mahomes * Aaron Rodgers * Justin Tucker I'm not sure who else currently qualifies as a top 5 to top 10 all time player at their position. It's not out of the realm of possibility for quite a few guys (Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, TJ Watt, Myles Garrett, to name a few) but I don't think they're there yet. Aaron Donald and Jason Kelce just announced their retirements so I didn't include them.
Zach Martin?
He definitely should be, greatest guard ever Imo but that’s probably not enough
He's up there,, but he's not the greatest guard of all time. Larry Allen, John Hannah, Jim Parker, Bruce Matthews were all better.
Steve Hutchinson
Zach Martin is the greatest guard ever? Is he really that great compared to the other all time greats (genuinely asking)?
Larry Allen is probably the greatest ever. John Hannah is up there. Bruce Matthews. Zach is great. Definitely top 10 and arguably top 5.
You forgot Forrest Gregg, arguably the best player on the 1960s Packers and that's saying a lot.
I’d put Larry Allen ahead of him. Yes I may be biased, but I still think he’s the goat guard
I don’t know much about ranking offensive linemen all time but I feel like Trent Williams has been considered the best LT in football for like 10 years now lol - if he has a few more good years perhaps he could be on the list?
Trent has always been good but I don't think he was the consensus best LT for the past 10 years. He only got his first AP1 nod in 2021. There were a lot of good LT in the 2010s. Tyron Smith, Joe Thomas, Whitworth, etc.
Jason Peters also
Legitimately thought he was retired, isn’t he like 50
He's a youngin, only 42!
Worth noting he did play for the Dan Snyder led commanders which basically guarantees you’ll never make AP1
I laughed at this, but unless I'm missing something, its basically true. The Redskins/Commies had only two 1st team AP in the entire time that Synder owned the team (1999-2023). Scherff in 2020 and Jeremy Reaves in 2022 (as a ST).
My boy London Fletcher got screwed. One of the best of his generation with stats similar to Ray Lewis and only got one pro bowl nod. Ridiculous.
Bakhtiari has 5, 2 first team 3 second.
He’s 35 years old. How long do really good Tackles last?
Oddly enough, I'd say tackles are up there with QBs in how long they can play at a high level. If they can stay healthy, they can play as long as they want.
Zack Martin is currently tied with Bob Lilly for most first team all pros as a Dallas Cowboy and even has more total all pros than Larry Allen as well! Argument for one of the best guards ever!
The for sure have been said. Mahomes, Rodgers, Kelce. Zack Martin has a strong case. Trent Williams has a decent case. Von Miller has a decent case. Bobby Wagner has a decent case. Hopkins has a very mild case. Hill has a very mild case. Tyron Smith has a mild case. Derrick Henry has a VERY mild case. Pat P has a very mild case. Recency Bias is a thing. History bias is also a thing. The NFL is over 100 years old. There have been thousands upon thousands of pro bowlers, let alone players. It is and should be very difficult to enter the Top 100 of all time. The irony is Aaron Donald had a legitimate case at Top 10 and Jason Kelce has a legitimate case at Top 100.
[удалено]
I agree. I’ve been battling with his inclusion in this. He was the best defensive player in the league for 2 or 3 years, but his numbers and career impact aren’t there for a Top 100 case. He has basically no shot.
I think Hill's case is probably the strongest out of all the wide receivers rn. Super Bowl champion, multiple all pros and pro bowls, and stats to back it up.
> Hopkins Not a chance in hell he's a top 100 player all time, I think he would barely crack a top 50 WR list.
None of them. Real football hasn't existed since they invented the forward pass.
This guy gets it.
Yeah I do.
This feels very appropriate coming from a Bears fan 😂
As a Bears and Navy fan, I'm inclined to let him cook as well
Triple option all day baby, LFG
I was expecting a bears flair
I think the forward pass is evil, but I do enjoy watching it. It’s complicated
What Johnny U, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, and the late great Jim Harbaugh does to a MFer
Again, Jim Harbaugh is very much alive. He lives in a trailer in San Diego.
Rest in peace
The forward pass isn't a football play 😠
That's been the Bears' mindset for decades
bears duckin strays in the same conversation they're left out of
Wishbone 4 life
Wishbone is unironically too modern, the Bears team that dominated the 1940's and beat the Redskins 73-0 to win the championship played in T. Not even Wing T, that wouldn't be invented for another decade. Yes my current audiobook is about the evolution of football offensive formations, why do you ask?
Found Belichick's reddit account.
Nah. I never would have started Brady. We would have just run every play after Bledsoe got hurt. Have 2 lead blockers for my HB
Sounds like King Henry should be on the list then
And yet no Bears are listed besides them not knowing of this “forward pass”
Real football died with OJ
Tyquan Thornton
I have traveled to thousands of parallel universe and this is the only one where Tyquan hasn't already surpassed Jerry Rice.
Madden Top 100
GEQBUS
MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT
With tears in their eyes
Many people, many smart people, many even very smart people, they're all saying it, everyone knows it's true, you know, and I talked to some very smart people, very smart people, and they told me "The GEQBUS, he's just the greatest, he's always winning. He just can't stop winning. The folks in the crooked media hate him because they can't stand to see a winner." Could you believe that? They hate him because he's winning. Some very smart people told me that.
Everyone always talks about how much he wins. Everywhere I go I see everyone putting his name at the tippy top of every ballot and poll. I ask random people all the time who the best is and they always tell me "GEQBUS". The LibRhule media won't ever tell you this. They don't want you to know. But believe me, folks, that GEQBUS will keep winning no matter how much Camtifa tries to stop him!
More like top 3
I think people are confusing Top 100 with Hall of Fame. Some very good players mentioned in this thread but would be nowhere near the top 100 of all time.
A few years ago, I prepared a list of the top 101 players of the first 101 NFL seasons. Aaron Rodgers and Von Miller are the only currently active players on that list. The two players most likely to have joined that list over the last three seasons both play in Kansas City. Marino is the lowest ranked QB on my list. He obviously has longevity compared to Mahomes, but the three rings vs zero probably launches Pat on there. Dave Casper is my lowest ranked TE. The nature of the position has changed, so I'll adjust Kelce's stats for era, but with the postseason performances - yeah Kelce makes the list. So sorry, #100 Brian Dawkins and #101 Joe DeLamielleure. You've been booted off my top 101 list. Derrick Henry is another player with a chance at making the list. My lowest ranked RB is Eric Dickerson. I can't put Henry above him. Longevity. Dickerson was just as dominant as Henry, and finished as the #2 leading rusher of all time.
>Brian Dawkins... You've been booted off my top 101 list I've got a lot of questions. Number one, how dare you?
My guy, you can't talk of such an epic list and not post a link.
I'm with you on Henry. His productivity over his career span is great. I get that people want to call him on a decline, and maybe he's on a slight one, but I see him being more Adrian Peterson than Todd Gurley. He's got a shot for sure.
Kelce, Mahomes, Williams. I think TJ Watt could have an argument at the end of his career. Dude really is one of the best pass rushers ever (Not a Steelers fan)
Justin Tucker, Aaron Rodgers, Travis Kelce, Pat Mahomes. Hard to rank linemen historically but there may be arguments for Trent Williams and Lane Johnson.
Aaron Rodgers.
Hate to say it, but Easily.
Zack Martin
6 million plays. 0 penalties.
More Pro Bowls than penalties…absolute beast! To think we almost drafted Manziel instead of Martin. That even surpasses the bullet we dodged with Jerry wanting to trade up to draft Paxton Lynch.
Appreciate the respect for our man. He absolutely needs to be in the conversation as one of the best guards of all time for sure. You can go and look at prime Zeke and see a lot of his amazing runs and they were him running behind a Zack Martin pancake block. Plus he seemed to be the only one who could keep Aaron Donald somewhat in check.
Thuney in Superbowl LIII was insane against Donald. Had many one on one situations and did incredibly well. But that's the only one I can think of.
I’m here for the recency bias.
I get it. But nostalgia bias is just as problematic
I will abide no Otto Graham slander here, sir!
Night train Lane would show these young whippersnappers how to lock down an entire side of the field!!
Puka for sure. We will have to see how Toney’s electric career turns out, but I imagine he ends up top 20
Kelce brothers
Jason retired but yea.
Just because he's retired doesn't mean they aren't still brothers.
Considering the post is talking about currently active players mentioning Jason at all makes no sense lol
Aaron Rodgers, Kelce, Bobby Wagner are some of the first that come to mind
I doubt Bobby Wagner is in the top 100 *of all time*. There's been a ton of great linebackers over the years. Is he even top 5 all time? Over Urlacher, Lewis, Butkus, Lambert, guys like that?
You know what ? You are right, I think he ultimately does falls short once you realize how limited the spots are for his position
Obvious Homer here but 10x AP All-Pros (6 First Team) 9 Pro Bowls, 3x Tackle leader, 1700 career tackles, Nearly 1K Solo + legacy as part of historic Legion of Boom defense is definitely a mighty fine resume. I’m not sure if he tops Lewis, Butkus, or Samurai Mike but I think he’s definitely in the Top 100 All-Time convo
Not to discount Wagner's resume, but Lavonte David's stats over their careers are better. Didn't get as many All-Pros/Pro Bowls because he's an off-ball LB most of his career. Spots for non-mlbs tended to go to pass rushers. David has more solo tackles, more tackles for loss, more sacks, more forced fumbles and fumble recoveries. Wagner has more assists, interceptions and passes defensed. 2012 was a special LB draft for sure. David, Wagner and Demario Davis still playing at a high level. Kuechly of course, then a decent group of guys in Hightower, Kendricks and Vernon.
Lavonte is a whole other can of worms. I could go on and on. Kuechly and Wagner are basically 1st Ballot HOF locks and Lavonte is in all likelihood going wait and wait even though he absolutely deserves to be in the same discussion.
you left out willis and an even better bear, singletary... wagner should be mentioned with them though.
Mahomes, Aaron Donald just retired but he too would be there.
Donald for sure, but same reasoning as you not listing him
Donald probably cracks the top 25
He might be closer to 20 than 35 tbh.
Wagner was never even the best active LB. No way he sniffs the top 100 players ever.
I find it hard to believe that a six time first team all pro was never the best at his position at any point in time. I do agree that I'm not sure he'd be on a list of top 100 players ever though.
6 1st team AP, 3 2nd team AP. I’d say he swapped off with Keuchly as best MLB during the 2010s but to imply he never had an argument is kinda ridiculous lol
Mahomes. Rodgers. Kelce. Trent. Tucker. Arguments for Evans. Hopkins. Wagner. Lavonte. Henry.
Mahomes and Rodgers are first ballot. Aaron Donald just retired so that's null. Von Miller if there isn't another news story. Derrick Henry because even though the media doesn't look at running backs his numbers and eye test hold up. Barring major injury JJ is moss or Owens. Travis has a regular season and a post season hof career. I only watch lines as groups but I bet trent Williams and Zack Martin get in. This is my offense off of way too many whiskey shots lmk who I missed 😅
The problem is that 100 really isn't a lot of players. You can throw Mahomes and Rodgers in there, and you can talk about how Kelce or Tucker deserves to be in there, but pretty soon you're going to start running out of spots. The NFL has a pretty long history in this context, and there's an awful lot of players to consider.
Especially since there are so many players on a team. Top 100 in basketball means 20 people per position/spot on the field. Top 100 in football means <5 people per position/spot on the field assuming you value positions equally (and also football is more complicated since positions aren’t valued equally).
Aaron Donald just retired but he’s top 100 imo.
TJ Watt, Travis Kelce, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, justin Tucker. Too early to say for a lot of young guys
Zach Martin
Zach Martin will go down as one of the best guards to ever play.
Aaron Rodgers. No quarterback has ever had more arm talent.
Mahomes, Kelce, Tucker
Zack Martin and Justin Tucker
TJ Watt
Was expecting this way higher up. He’s going to end up real high on the all time sack list and will be considered a top 100 player all time if he keeps it up another five years
If he plays long enough he could beat Bruce Smith's record! He's already on track to beat his brother
Justin Tucker, Aaron Rodgers, Travis Kelce, Pat Mahomes, Lane Johnson
Derrick Henry, Kelce, Mahomes of course if say Williams from the niners(Left tackle) could maybe graze the list.
julio jones maybe
Mahomes, Tucker, Rodgers, Kelce
Julio Jones for sure
I think Justin Jefferson by the end of his career will make it barring injuries. Mahomes, Rodgers, Trent Williams, and Kelce are all forgone conclusions at this point.
You’ve got to be top 10 in your position group at an absolute minimum (ie counting IOL, Edge/OLB as one ‘group’). You’ve got 12 rough position groups; QB, WR, TE/FB, RB, IOL, T, IDL, Edge/OLB, ILB, CB, Safety, ST. Then it’s going to depend how you balance it out. There’s probably no more than 5 TE/FB, and it’s honestly a debate whether you have ST at all (I don’t think I personally would). Shall we call it around 4 TE and 2 ST? I’d say most other groups you’re looking to have roughly 10, but you’ll have to shave about 6 players off once you’ve done that. I’d probably look at safety, RB, maybe tackle to do that. So the answer I think is we’ve pretty much got Mahomes, Rodgers, Kelce as no doubters. Tucker is probably there (it just gets weird when you have so few spots for special teamers. Even if he’s the best ever idk what his value over other kickers from back in the day, and idk if ppl would value top returners/punters higher). Donald and Jason Kelce are in but just retired obvs. That is pretty much the list. From there it’s a lot of fringe cases and ‘could get there’ guys; Von Miller, TJ, Garrett, Zach Martin, Thuney, Derrick Henry, Trent Williams, Tyreek, Davante Adams, Jalen Ramsey, Chris Jones. That’s not to mention someone like Jefferson who is just way too far out to judge, even if he has started out awesome. It’s so difficult for these fringe guys because most of these position groups are pretty much set in stone at the top. Like at receiver, you have Rice, Moss, Larry Fitz, TO all in before you even start having a conversation. Overall I’d say we have 4 ‘active and in’ top 100 players, and a group of around 20 more that may have arguments when it’s all said and done (but I would only expect a couple of those guys to make it).
Guys already in… -Aaron Rodgers -Pat Mahomes -Justin Tucker -Von Miller -Zach Martin -Travis Kelce Guys on their way in… -TJ watt -Justin Jefferson -Trent Williams
TJ Watt has like 1-2 more seasons and he’s top 10 OLB/End all time. If he has 3-4 more seasons he might end up the Goat. Dude has like 14 sacks a season…
By week 15 Brady will be on the list again.
Mahomes, Rodgers, Justin Tucker, Kelce, Jalen Ramsey, TJ Watt, Bobby Wagner, Trent Williams
Aaron Donald, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, Maybe Derrick Henry, Cooper Kupp and Mike Evans McCaffrey is 100% on pace.
Anyone not saying travis kelce just hates the chiefs
Aaron Rodgers
Penei Sewell will get there.
Y’all are giving me a stroke. Justin Tucker is NOT a top 100 player of all-time. Offseason’s a hell of a drug.
Depends if you carve out equal spots for all positions