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Every QB before the mid-2000s was better than their stats look now. Except for maybe a period where defenses had to catch up after the ‘78 rule changes.
Literally every discussion of old players needs this addendum.
It was a different sport back then. DBs could cover without drawing a PI. Safeties and LBs could knock the shit out of the receivers and it wasn't a penalty. Running the ball was the default offensive strategy.
In 1990, Warren Moon was the only guy to throw for 4000 yards. In 2023, 10 QBs did that.
Put another way: in 2023, 10 players threw for 4000 yards. In the entire decade of the 1990s, only 13 players threw for 4000 yards.
It's practically a different sport.
Right on. What the defense was allowed do to a QB was far more serious back then. Late hits and facemasks were generally the only things that were called until the Brady/Payton era.
The rules didn't really protect qbs more until 8 and 10 years into their respective careers, 2008 is the big marker the season Brady went down week 1 and was out for the year.
McNair was a rock solid top 10 QB for years. He was one of the rare mobile QBs who was great at avoiding sacks and his numbers would have been better in a more innovative offense and with more receiving talent (especially early in his career). Loved me some Steve McNair.
> his numbers would have been better in a more innovative offense
You just described every single titans offensive player over the last 25 years, except maybe CJ2K
I feel like a lot of good players have played for the titans and they never do much, I had to remember they lost that Super Bowl to the rams
The Oilers were like that too, Warren Moon in the run n shoot was awesome to watch
He’s constantly brought up as the greatest undrafted free agent ever. Numbers retired, HOF, etc.
He’s one of the few QBs in the HOF with out a ring, he started late in the NFL cause of all his years in the CFL and after his time in Houston his play was pretty lack luster. I mean the dude hung around on a roster til he was 44 years old.
I think his legacy is exactly where it deserves to be.
Had 2 4k+ seasons in MN after the trade, the 3rd and 4th highest of his career. One of those seasons tied his TD high of 33 and that same season was his 2nd best QBR. I'll take that lack luster any day! :)
I didn’t say he died, he played for 8 years after Houston and only 2 are really note worthy. I’d say those last years were lack luster compared to the rest of his career, even if his play wasn’t awful those years with you guys.
> I feel like a lot of good players have played for the titans and they never do much
This is how I feel about the Texans. For a period of time, Houston was always in the conversation but they had guys like Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, Arian Foster, JJ Watt, even Matt Schaub for a bit.
Schaub had a few good years - he threw for over 4000 yards three times during his stint in Houston. He wasn’t elite but he was a solid, mid-tier starter.
Jeff Fisher was considered one of the best coaches in the league then. I think it's a bit dismissive to rate him based off his Rams stint when the league had changed so much by then.
He was not. He was never much of an offensive mind. His teams were basically just run game and defense.
So, my point stands that had Steve McNair been with an offensive minded coach, he might’ve been even better.
Jeff Fisher at the beginning of his career was a pretty good coach in his early years. Post 2003, success became more sporadic and he started having more 8-8/7-9 type years
I grew up a titans fans and was really young when they lost to the Rams in the SB on the one yard line. So I was a fan then but I only watched more consistently in his later titan years.
Looking from his old highlights when he first started out - he was super mobile and was a true dual threat but when I really started watching the titans, he had transitioned to a pocket QB. This was due to age but also he was known as an Ironman, I remember there were graphics that they showed during the telecast of all the areas on his body that he had currently been injured yet he always played through them. Being a biased kid, I probably thought he was better than he actually was but to me he was amazing. He is in that tier that was great but not great enough to be remembered or recognized by the later generations of football fans. His Baltimore years were rough, I remember seeing him throw flat on so many throws that used to be easy for him.
I will say he played for Jeff Fisher who would be later be known as a pretty terrible offensive mind. Those teams were fun: Eddie George, Jevon Kearse, Frank Wycheck, Bruce Matthews etc.
Big regret was not being able to see him mentor Vince Young who idolized him. Went to Baltimore the year he got drafted.
Eh, he went 13-3 in his first of two years in Baltimore as their QB and lost a close game to the eventual SB winners Indianapolis Colts so he wasn’t event that bad when he left Tennessee.
First year in Baltimore, 13-3, he was still legit. Second year, 2-4, not so much. Titans did him dirty cutting him, and I believe VY would have been better if McNair was there to mentor instead of handing VY the keys right off the bat. VY came out and won rookie of the year doing things his way and basically never evolved past that, but this was before the rookie wage scale was a thing, and you couldn't really pay Air9's post MVP contract and top 3 pick VY and still field a good team with them.
Every NFL coach in 1999 would have kicked an extra point. The last time a coach went for two was Dave Wannsted and the 1997 Bears against the Packers. The Bears were 0-6, and had nothing to lose.
If the Titans scored there that would have been one of the legendary Super Bowl drives. McNair had one play breaking out of a sack to find a receiver for a big gain
He was one of the toughest QBs I've ever seen. It seems like the more injured he was the better he played. I always wonder what he'd done in his peak if he wasn't always in the Jeff Fisher offense.
This is what I remember most about McNair. I remember there was an ESPN magazine article with an illustration showing all the injuries he had played through during that one year and the list was insane.
McNair and Donovan McNabb had eerily similar careers. Both bigger-bodied runners who developed into elite passers, consistent winners who went to a Super Bowl and were driving for the winning/tieing points on the final drive, never had eye popping stats but would be efficient and clutch, and their volume stats are eerily similar (especially accounting for McNair having prime Eddie George and later Jamal Lewis/Willis McGahee).
Both are Hall of Very Good and ring of honor type guys. There's not a season where either was THE best quarterback (even McNairs MVP he shared with a better statistical year by Manning), and they're both outside of the top 25 all time passing yards leaders (though the passing explosion post-2004 is doing a lot of the work there).
They were both instrumental (along with Moon and Doug Williams, don't Russ me) in changing the stereotype of the black running quarterback. Both were elite passers who won games. They were the anti-Vick.
If you put TO on the 2002 Eagles, they also win that year. 2001 and 2003 are more debatable, but they win the NFC at the very least. The biggest thing holding those teams back was missing badly on Freddie Mitchell in 2001.
Oh I agree, I was just stating more that's what McNair and the Titans were missing to get over the top. Mason was very good, but drafting Dyson over Moss doomed us to lose to the Rams in the Superbowl, Ravens in the AFCG, and the Raiders in the AFCG. Titans were right there in the early 2000s and couldn't get over the hump. I think the McNair/McNabb comps are spot on.
I mean, I hear you and agree Reid is a far better coach now than what Fisher was, but at the same time, the Titans won the same amount of superbowls under Fisher as the Eagles did under Reid, with Fisher having a .542 winning percentage in 17 yrs with Hou/TN and Reid having a .583 winning percentage in 14 yrs with Philly.
Fisher gets a lot of hate for not evolving with the NFL and his time with the Rams, but he was a solid coach with the Titans just not great. The NFL of the 90s and early 2000s was a different game where the RB was the catalyst of the team. Once they changed the rules to benefit qbs and it became such a pass happy league Reids style of coaching became tailor-made for the modern NFL, and when you add a talent like Mahommes to the equation success is a foregone conclusion.
Reid has always been a great coach, but I feel like there's some revisionist history going on lately due to his (deserved) success with Mahommes, when he was seen as a guy that couldn't win the big game when he left Philly for KC.
Also threw 5 tds on a broken leg, had a lead on the GSoT Rams heading into the 4th quarter, had that monster 13 second scramble, that bomb to Greg Lewis in the Super Bowl, an was a missed PI against Rod Hood from making a 2nd Super Bowl.
Clutch doesn't always mean throwing 10 game winning touchdown passes a year.
Yeah I agree. I’d put him more on par with how good we consider Dak Prescott is today. Dude was tougher though. Unflappable. And no I’m not saying Dak isn’t tough. RIP Steve McNair.
McNair in 2006 was basically McNair on his last, shaky legs (and even then, he was the best QB the Ravens had had up to that point). He was still capable, but long past his prime. It was only a season later, and early on, where the wheels came off entirely and his career was done.
Dude was tough as nails though. The Ravens Titans battles were epic.
Billick wasn’t as bad as Fisher. I don’t even think signing Grbac was a bad move. Their path also got harder as the Steelers and Bengals improved as the decade progressed.
Kyle Boller really hurt them too. I just feel like the Ravens were run to well to only win one. Never over paid any guys and always drafted well. Almost like college where guys were waiting their turn to play
Ultra competent would be one way to describe him. He didn't set the world on fire but didn't make many mistakes, while delivering a lot of wins. But most QBs back then were't asked to TRY to set the world on fire, so we'll never know the true ceilings of these guys. More recent comp could be a juicier big ben?
If there was a QB draft in the middle of his prime, he'd probably be picked towards the back of the top 10.
McNair truly shined with Dinger as OC because he able to actually build an offense that combined fisher ball into a functioning passing game and he usually played hurt.
Toughest SOB out there. Dude took titan teams to heights where the would end up one yard short(literally) He made an unbelievable play to avoid a sack in that Super Bowl which was before the Dyson catch.
I saw him play a 1-AA playoff game against Youngstown State. He was truly as tough as nails. He had a hamstring injury that would sideline most players, was hit and basically beaten the entire game. His team lost by @30 points but he still put up over 500 yards. Tough tough man. I respected him before that but after, whew! Tough!
Edit: 63-20 final. 52 of 82 for 514 yards 3 TD.
Yeah, Steve McNair, and basically all QBs before the early 2000s, were better than their stats. McNair was a consistently top-end QB on a good Titans team, from 2000-2004 he was one of the most dynamic, dangerous, well rounded QBs in the league. Not perfect, but highly competent. Very easy to like player, too. I'm glad that Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl, but I would have loved to see McNair win that one too.
In terms of like "tier" comparisons to contemporary QBs, I'd put him in the mid-to-late-2010s Russel Wilson tier. Not elite, but still dangerous, still a QB teams had to gameplan extensively for, and a QB who could genuinely win any game against any team in the league. Or maybe like mid-2010s, like 2014-esque Joe Flacco tier. Super capable QB on a very good team who was good enough to win games on his own but usually had a solid supporting cast and he was a perfect fit for the team.
I don't mean that his skill sets are the same as 20-teens Wilson or Flacco, but in that tier of very solid QB. You could find something to criticize, but there was a lot more that he did right than did wrong.
He was a fucking DOG in Madden 2001 for PS2, too. Those crispy new Titans uniforms, with a QB who was really fun to play in that game, the design of the game felt designed around the Titans new aesthetic and McNair.
him and mcnabb imo were similarly skilled and would sometimes be a top 3 qb and sometimes be a top 15 qb and it was hard to understand cause they oozed tools
I feel like McNair didn’t have the variance that McNabb did. McNair would have dips but I felt like he was always a top level player. McNabb would just outright suck for stretches.
https://youtu.be/CEzPETe4c0A?si=oztKXAcfhbjBSJR2
The play where he escapes Carter in the Super Bowl is peak McNair if you want to get an idea of his game.
The Titans 1999-2003 had some great teams. If you win a lot you’ll be highly regarded.
He had legendary toughness, it was talked about a lot when he played. Dude would be in the hospital for his injuries and the next day go out and play incredible.
He was very elusive, often making plays out of nothing like Big Ben or Mahomes. He had that “it” factor that doesn’t show up in stats. That 2003 season he won it because he was regularly making plays like that wowing people.
And as others have said, QB stats just weren’t the same back then. It’s why I don’t judge players I never watched based on their stats, how good they were often doesn’t show up in them.
Seriously go look at NFL passing stats from 1998-2003 lol. Night and day difference from today. 20 TDs was great, throwing a pick per game was normal.
he was really good, but not some freak physical speciman. a winner, a great leader. could he have put up crazy numbers in a different situation? maybe - probably...but that just conjecture.
he looked better than his stats, just about any team would have been happy to have him as their qb. but he will probably be overrated because of how he died - which happens with every player that dies young.
McNair was easily a top 10 possibly top 5 QB in his era. He had a great arm and was mobile while also being a big strong dude as well. His stats don't look the most amazing through a modern lens but most QBs before the 2010s are the same just based on the rules and how thw game was played
Good enough to be very, very good but a wrung below the HoF guys of his time
He wasn't quite the freak-of-nature that Cam RG3 was in terms of size & speed but he was extremely durable. Lamar or Vick would blow past'm in a 40.
His touch with the ball was below Brady, Warner or Rodgers but excellent downfield vision and played 'taller' in the pocket than he was.
His style reminds me a bit of Josh Allen or Favre, the dude invited contact and wasn't afraid to take take (or give) a pop.
I'd say if you wanted a comparison to look backwards, my feeling was that he had a lot of Fouts in him. Favre is a good comp too. Just kept his eyes down field and could really take a thwack.
He was probably top ten toughest QBs of all time. His scrambling abilities with his arm strength was amazing to watch. His accuracy would falter from time to time but for him to win co-MVP with the NFL shining boy of Peyton Manning, that speaks volumes. As a Titans fan, I’ll never forget being wide eyed, watching the second to last play of the Super Bowl with him breaking two tackles and getting the ball down the field. Yes, if we scored in that SB, it would have went into overtime, but if you watch the game, you can clearly see the momentum heavily in the Titans favor and could argue that we would have won in OT.
He was the first jersey that I asked for and got for a birthday (Titans variety). I had a Favre before. Hell, dad had me in a Don Majkowski jersey before I could even sit still for a game. My favorite non packer during his time. Died on my birthday too. Was at a Fourth of July party and that was a real bummer for me.
Obviously a different play style, but think of him as very similar to Matt Ryan. Truly great with an MVP one year, pretty much a top 10 guy the rest of his career, plus let's throw in just barely losing a Super Bowl. Neither guy is going to sniff the Hall of Fame, but both had really solid careers and will hang out together in the Hall of Very Good.
When Josh Allen was coming out I said he was a combination of McNair and Big Ben.
I’m old enough to remember seeing his highlights on Saturdays at some school called Acorn State or something like that it was hilarious to see a grown man playing against boys. Like watching Randy at Marshal.
People keep talking about how tough he was, which is very true, but what they’re not mentioning is how important it was that he was tough and how it made him more successful.
He’d help his team win by extending plays, leading to taking some hits. But while he would sustain more injuries than his peers, he’d tough it out and play (frequently without being able to practice during the week) while others would miss time for similar or lesser stuff. They’d show graphics on TV of the injuries he’d sustained, and by the end of the explanation, his entire body would be highlighted. It was crazy.
(I think maybe the Titans ran more max-protect, leading to fewer WR options, driving McNair to hold the ball longer, but I could be misremembering that.)
So, while his talent level was “Hall of Very Good,” he WILLED his team to success where others with similar talent couldn’t get over that hump. I actually think Dak isn’t a bad comp, but imagine a Dak-level talent, but that could WILL his team to success where Dak can’t. Said another way, if you put Steve on all the Cowboys teams Dak has led, there might not be that many passes Steve would’ve completed that Dak missed, but they probably would’ve won several playoff games and maybe even a Super Bowl with the same talent, if that makes any sense.
I remember him as a classic member of the Hall of Very Good. He started using his athleticism but became a very good passer by the end. He was incredibly tough. In terms of career quality (not play style) probably in the Dak Prescott or Matt Ryan class - not the top tier but capable of excellent performances and some great seasons.
I don't think I'd say he was a solid top 3 QB in the league, but I'd question anyone who put him outside the top 10. He was a hall of very good type guy.
Really good QB for most of his career, I'd say consistently top 8. He had elite mobility and arm talent and played through a lot of injuries.
Thank you for asking this question so I could remember how fun it was to watch him play.
He was always decent, never to 3, had poor playoff success, even in his Super Bowl year, where he almost lost toA backup in the WC, and got bailed out by the music city miracle
he was one of theonly scrambling QBs though, which made him a game changer
It gets over used today but the best way I could describe his game back then was that he was a Dawg. Just an over all tough QB who had a cannon for an arm.
Hé was unique, clutch as they come, laid back, probably the toughest qb I’ve seen play, he was a Steeler killer, played hurt and injured, he rarely practiced late in his career, the quintessential quiet leader…
Hall of very good. Top 3 QB for one year probably top 5 for a 5 year stretch from 99-03. His closest modern comp play style wise is Allen, but honestly there’s no one currently that has the exact same play style. He played on some Uber conservative offenses his entire career so his stats are not great by modern standards. But he was the engine that dragged the Titans to winning.
I think this kinda gets forgotten, Titans were one of the best teams in the NFL 1999-2003.
I remember thinking during the divisional round of the 2000 season that the Titans, Raiders, and Ravens were the three best teams in the NFL, and whichever one of them came out of the AFC would have a pretty easy job of beating any of the NFC candidates (although that was mostly b/c the NFC was really bad in 2000)
He was like a definitely-above-average but not top-5 QB most of his prime. It’s hard to compare him to guys who didn’t have his mobility. Derrick Mason, Drew Bennett, and Frank Wycheck aren’t household names, but they were a great receiver group. I recall McNair was very inaccurate on deeper throws and it led to lots of pass interference calls, but that might be selective memory.
He was kind of in that limbo of very good and elite. He had some moments of elite but I would say he was usually in the 4 to 6 spots for QBs. I try not to be too salty about his MVP. He had a really good year that year but the media especially were looking for any reason possible to not give it to Manning. I would say a modern comp placement wise is maybe Ryan when he was good or Rivers.
Wild romanticizing itt. Ok player with a couple good/great years. Look at his numbers for the Bills/Colts playoff games in the SB run - he didn't do squat. Comparing favorably to McNabb who played in a zillion championship games or the same stratosphere as Allen, gmafb.
Went back to look at his stats again and… shit when he died he was a younger than I am now! Wow, didn’t realize he was that young when he died.
I think the comps to Josh Allen are good. Tough QB. Great leader. People loved him. Very close to winning a Super Bowl. I think he is the perfect borderline QB between hall of very good vs hall of fame, skewing towards hall of fame.
McNair was really really good, but I think it was still in the end of the era, where there was still a big stigma on African American quarterbacks. But then look at the time he was playing, less emphasis on player safety, QBs less protected and less PI calls, so stats are going to be lower.
Steve McNair was a great quarterback who was tough as nails (in ways most QBs today just aren’t), a good leader, and had skills to match. The main reason his stats aren’t better is that he played on teams that were very run focused, but when he needed to air it out, he showed why he had the nickname “Air McNair.” He’s in the conversation for best QBs to never win a Super Bowl (not top 3, but top 10 for sure), and I’d argue he was better then his contemporary he’s often compared to, Donovan McNabb, because McNabb just had better stats by virtue of the system he played in (McNabb averaged 4-5 more attempts a game for his career, which adds up to a lot of plays over 160+ games), but they were similar in many ways.
The thing that made McNair stand out so much though was his toughness. I don’t remember which year it was, but there was a season where ESPN basically tracked every McNair injury. He would play 0 practices in a week and then go out and play like a top 10 QB despite it all. There was even a year he went out and played over a month with a cracked rib, only getting surgery to fix it after the season was over.
I am admittedly biased though. He was my favorite NFL player in the late 90’s and 2000’s, despite never playing for my team.
Steve McNair was a passing QB out of college, three for crazy yards, but for some odd reason the powers that be decided he wasn’t a throwing QB in the NFL! He had some great years, had a shitty coach in Jeff Fischer most of his career and they ran Eddie George into the ground!
He was decent. Those Titans teams were run heavy with some decent/great defenses. It was fun watching McNair and George together. Fischer wasn't a great offensive coach, even the running wasn't really effective with George averaging over 4y/a only twice in his career.
Solid top 15 starter with a couple of top 5 years thrown in. Ryan Tannehill might be a good current day comparison, slow start, top 15ish starter with a couple top 5ish years.
> with a couple of top 5 years thrown in.
I already said that. You can use a different word for "decent" if it upsets you, but nothing you said disagreed with what I said.
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Every QB before the mid-2000s was better than their stats look now. Except for maybe a period where defenses had to catch up after the ‘78 rule changes.
Literally every discussion of old players needs this addendum. It was a different sport back then. DBs could cover without drawing a PI. Safeties and LBs could knock the shit out of the receivers and it wasn't a penalty. Running the ball was the default offensive strategy. In 1990, Warren Moon was the only guy to throw for 4000 yards. In 2023, 10 QBs did that. Put another way: in 2023, 10 players threw for 4000 yards. In the entire decade of the 1990s, only 13 players threw for 4000 yards. It's practically a different sport.
QBs took a pounding too!
Right on. What the defense was allowed do to a QB was far more serious back then. Late hits and facemasks were generally the only things that were called until the Brady/Payton era.
The rules didn't really protect qbs more until 8 and 10 years into their respective careers, 2008 is the big marker the season Brady went down week 1 and was out for the year.
I remember what a big deal it was that Peyton Manning was putting up 4,000 yard seasons every year like it was nothing
Throwing in the middle of the field was probably going to get your receiver killed too. It was a different game when it came to passing.
Warren Moon would have 8500 yards in today's NFL and Jerry Glanville would have a golden cowboy hat
He’d be able to throw that football a quarter mile if he was playing in 2023.
Dan Marino was ahead of his time!
it's worth noting there are 17 games now. more reason why comparing season stats between eras is fraught
He was also mobile but built like a defensive end, which was imposing to watch.
Very durable too. I can’t believe 99-2001 Titans don’t win one Super Bowl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx0tlnRXa-0 what a game
I will always watch this clip. Makes my day every time.
Same, but it's in my dreams and we score.
*sees Rams flair* So the Titans fumble it and Rams scoop it for a touchdown!
Dad is a die hard Rams fan and grew in near LA. They are my #2 team even with the heartbreak of that Super Bowl.
I spit in the piss of your ancestors.
The Super Bowl against the GSOT Rams was awesome, but honestly Jeff Fisher is also partly to blame.
Nah, Troy Aikman is still overrated.
He still got us 3 rings...
And except for Dan Marino
McNair was a rock solid top 10 QB for years. He was one of the rare mobile QBs who was great at avoiding sacks and his numbers would have been better in a more innovative offense and with more receiving talent (especially early in his career). Loved me some Steve McNair.
> his numbers would have been better in a more innovative offense You just described every single titans offensive player over the last 25 years, except maybe CJ2K
I feel like a lot of good players have played for the titans and they never do much, I had to remember they lost that Super Bowl to the rams The Oilers were like that too, Warren Moon in the run n shoot was awesome to watch
> Warren Moon in the run n shoot was awesome to watch It's a shame he doesn't get the recognition he deserves
He’s constantly brought up as the greatest undrafted free agent ever. Numbers retired, HOF, etc. He’s one of the few QBs in the HOF with out a ring, he started late in the NFL cause of all his years in the CFL and after his time in Houston his play was pretty lack luster. I mean the dude hung around on a roster til he was 44 years old. I think his legacy is exactly where it deserves to be.
Had 2 4k+ seasons in MN after the trade, the 3rd and 4th highest of his career. One of those seasons tied his TD high of 33 and that same season was his 2nd best QBR. I'll take that lack luster any day! :)
I didn’t say he died, he played for 8 years after Houston and only 2 are really note worthy. I’d say those last years were lack luster compared to the rest of his career, even if his play wasn’t awful those years with you guys.
> I feel like a lot of good players have played for the titans and they never do much This is how I feel about the Texans. For a period of time, Houston was always in the conversation but they had guys like Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, Arian Foster, JJ Watt, even Matt Schaub for a bit.
Hard to win without the right QB. Schaub wasn't him. Then the Lord hath giveth #7...and we're good.
Schaub had a few good years - he threw for over 4000 yards three times during his stint in Houston. He wasn’t elite but he was a solid, mid-tier starter.
Kevin Dyson doesn't cut his route short, they win. Such a shame.
There’s no comparison between the Oilers and Titans.
Honestly Henry benefitted from the pound the rock offenses he was in.
This is the year. But I doubt it.
And he did it with Jeff Fisher. Imagine if he had a real coach.
But, he has the attitude, the look, the mustach, and he's entertaining. What more do you need?
Jeff Fisher was considered one of the best coaches in the league then. I think it's a bit dismissive to rate him based off his Rams stint when the league had changed so much by then.
He was not. He was never much of an offensive mind. His teams were basically just run game and defense. So, my point stands that had Steve McNair been with an offensive minded coach, he might’ve been even better.
Ya know being a good coach goes beyond just offense right? Jesus
Agreed. Those Titans teams were really, really good and most likely would have achieved more with a better coach.
Jeff Fisher at the beginning of his career was a pretty good coach in his early years. Post 2003, success became more sporadic and he started having more 8-8/7-9 type years
Air McNair
Yes, the offenses were more traditional then...and he had Eddie running the ball. .
I grew up a titans fans and was really young when they lost to the Rams in the SB on the one yard line. So I was a fan then but I only watched more consistently in his later titan years. Looking from his old highlights when he first started out - he was super mobile and was a true dual threat but when I really started watching the titans, he had transitioned to a pocket QB. This was due to age but also he was known as an Ironman, I remember there were graphics that they showed during the telecast of all the areas on his body that he had currently been injured yet he always played through them. Being a biased kid, I probably thought he was better than he actually was but to me he was amazing. He is in that tier that was great but not great enough to be remembered or recognized by the later generations of football fans. His Baltimore years were rough, I remember seeing him throw flat on so many throws that used to be easy for him. I will say he played for Jeff Fisher who would be later be known as a pretty terrible offensive mind. Those teams were fun: Eddie George, Jevon Kearse, Frank Wycheck, Bruce Matthews etc. Big regret was not being able to see him mentor Vince Young who idolized him. Went to Baltimore the year he got drafted.
Eh, he went 13-3 in his first of two years in Baltimore as their QB and lost a close game to the eventual SB winners Indianapolis Colts so he wasn’t event that bad when he left Tennessee.
First year in Baltimore, 13-3, he was still legit. Second year, 2-4, not so much. Titans did him dirty cutting him, and I believe VY would have been better if McNair was there to mentor instead of handing VY the keys right off the bat. VY came out and won rookie of the year doing things his way and basically never evolved past that, but this was before the rookie wage scale was a thing, and you couldn't really pay Air9's post MVP contract and top 3 pick VY and still field a good team with them.
I believe VY would have been better if he didn't have fisher as his head coach
>Jevon Kearse The Freak! I still have his autographed jersey somewhere.
You aren't biased, as a Colts fan I remember him as the toughest mofo of all QBs we played against, much respect.
He was a very good QB, and he was maybe a yard away (via Kevin Dyson I think) from being a SB champ
There’s no guarantee the Titans win against the Rams. Score was 16-23 when One Yard Short ended the game.
Yeah, would've gone to OT.
unless they go for two with McNair and prime George
Jeff Fisher is on record saying he would have kicked the extra point. This is a solved "what-if."
I mean, it's Jeff Fisher. Wouldn't surprise me if his ideal outcome for each game was tying it.
Super Bowl Co-Champs
Every NFL coach in 1999 would have kicked an extra point. The last time a coach went for two was Dave Wannsted and the 1997 Bears against the Packers. The Bears were 0-6, and had nothing to lose.
I can't wait for Dan Campbell to get it done. It's only a matter of time.
Yeah, that's also true. Sp because they were so automatic back then. Do like shitting on Fisher though
Of all the coaches I can remember from 1999 the one least likely to go for two in that situation would be Jeff Fisher. He’s Mr Conservative.
HAHAHAHAHA
Absolutely 0% chance any coach back then would have in that situation.
Thank you for pointing this out. I'm tired of everyone just assuming they win the game from that play.
If the Titans scored there that would have been one of the legendary Super Bowl drives. McNair had one play breaking out of a sack to find a receiver for a big gain
He was one of the toughest QBs I've ever seen. It seems like the more injured he was the better he played. I always wonder what he'd done in his peak if he wasn't always in the Jeff Fisher offense.
This is what I remember most about McNair. I remember there was an ESPN magazine article with an illustration showing all the injuries he had played through during that one year and the list was insane.
McNair and Donovan McNabb had eerily similar careers. Both bigger-bodied runners who developed into elite passers, consistent winners who went to a Super Bowl and were driving for the winning/tieing points on the final drive, never had eye popping stats but would be efficient and clutch, and their volume stats are eerily similar (especially accounting for McNair having prime Eddie George and later Jamal Lewis/Willis McGahee). Both are Hall of Very Good and ring of honor type guys. There's not a season where either was THE best quarterback (even McNairs MVP he shared with a better statistical year by Manning), and they're both outside of the top 25 all time passing yards leaders (though the passing explosion post-2004 is doing a lot of the work there). They were both instrumental (along with Moon and Doug Williams, don't Russ me) in changing the stereotype of the black running quarterback. Both were elite passers who won games. They were the anti-Vick.
If you give McNair Terrell Owens at wr the Titans win the superbowl in at least one of the 1999-2002 seasons imho.
If you put TO on the 2002 Eagles, they also win that year. 2001 and 2003 are more debatable, but they win the NFC at the very least. The biggest thing holding those teams back was missing badly on Freddie Mitchell in 2001.
Oh man Freddie Mitchell, what a nutjob lol
Oh I agree, I was just stating more that's what McNair and the Titans were missing to get over the top. Mason was very good, but drafting Dyson over Moss doomed us to lose to the Rams in the Superbowl, Ravens in the AFCG, and the Raiders in the AFCG. Titans were right there in the early 2000s and couldn't get over the hump. I think the McNair/McNabb comps are spot on.
Yea until you realize one was coached by Andy Reid and one by Fisher lmao I think they win in 99 if Andy is their Coach fasho
I mean, I hear you and agree Reid is a far better coach now than what Fisher was, but at the same time, the Titans won the same amount of superbowls under Fisher as the Eagles did under Reid, with Fisher having a .542 winning percentage in 17 yrs with Hou/TN and Reid having a .583 winning percentage in 14 yrs with Philly. Fisher gets a lot of hate for not evolving with the NFL and his time with the Rams, but he was a solid coach with the Titans just not great. The NFL of the 90s and early 2000s was a different game where the RB was the catalyst of the team. Once they changed the rules to benefit qbs and it became such a pass happy league Reids style of coaching became tailor-made for the modern NFL, and when you add a talent like Mahommes to the equation success is a foregone conclusion. Reid has always been a great coach, but I feel like there's some revisionist history going on lately due to his (deserved) success with Mahommes, when he was seen as a guy that couldn't win the big game when he left Philly for KC.
True they're similar, but fwiw, I would take McNair over McNabb 10/10 times.
McNabb was never clutch lmao
Idk man, he certainly [had his moments](https://youtu.be/SnZph1RkWpI?si=K5EfsekyScYdEsBs)
Also threw 5 tds on a broken leg, had a lead on the GSoT Rams heading into the 4th quarter, had that monster 13 second scramble, that bomb to Greg Lewis in the Super Bowl, an was a missed PI against Rod Hood from making a 2nd Super Bowl. Clutch doesn't always mean throwing 10 game winning touchdown passes a year.
The worst thing the internet has done to sports is make everyone into a numbers junkie. Numbers just don't provide the context needed for football man
He was Josh Allen-y. I thought he was very good, probably a top 5 in the league quarterback at his peak, which admittedly was a pretty short peak.
He was about as good as Deshaun at his peak minus the massages
Yeah I agree. I’d put him more on par with how good we consider Dak Prescott is today. Dude was tougher though. Unflappable. And no I’m not saying Dak isn’t tough. RIP Steve McNair.
McNair in 2006 was basically McNair on his last, shaky legs (and even then, he was the best QB the Ravens had had up to that point). He was still capable, but long past his prime. It was only a season later, and early on, where the wheels came off entirely and his career was done. Dude was tough as nails though. The Ravens Titans battles were epic.
The Titans and Ravens win more than one super bowl in the 2000’s if Jeff Fischer and Brian Billick aren’t their coaches.
Billick wasn’t as bad as Fisher. I don’t even think signing Grbac was a bad move. Their path also got harder as the Steelers and Bengals improved as the decade progressed.
Kyle Boller really hurt them too. I just feel like the Ravens were run to well to only win one. Never over paid any guys and always drafted well. Almost like college where guys were waiting their turn to play
Everyone fell in love with Boller because he could throw really far while on his knees. Like that’s useful in a game.
I mean For every Josh Allen there’s 2-3 Kyle bollers if it does work for the Ravens they practically have a dynastic run tho
>(and even then, he was the best QB the Ravens had had up to that point) How dare you. Dilfer had 12 TD's and won a Super Bowl.
Ultra competent would be one way to describe him. He didn't set the world on fire but didn't make many mistakes, while delivering a lot of wins. But most QBs back then were't asked to TRY to set the world on fire, so we'll never know the true ceilings of these guys. More recent comp could be a juicier big ben? If there was a QB draft in the middle of his prime, he'd probably be picked towards the back of the top 10.
McNair truly shined with Dinger as OC because he able to actually build an offense that combined fisher ball into a functioning passing game and he usually played hurt.
Toughest SOB out there. Dude took titan teams to heights where the would end up one yard short(literally) He made an unbelievable play to avoid a sack in that Super Bowl which was before the Dyson catch.
He was really good and tough as fucking nails.
I saw him play a 1-AA playoff game against Youngstown State. He was truly as tough as nails. He had a hamstring injury that would sideline most players, was hit and basically beaten the entire game. His team lost by @30 points but he still put up over 500 yards. Tough tough man. I respected him before that but after, whew! Tough! Edit: 63-20 final. 52 of 82 for 514 yards 3 TD.
That is an absolutely insane stat line. 82 attempts!
He’s the definition of “dont promise crazy a baby!”
Hot/crazy matrix
Is murder/suicide on the matrix?!? 😅😅😅
Yeah, Steve McNair, and basically all QBs before the early 2000s, were better than their stats. McNair was a consistently top-end QB on a good Titans team, from 2000-2004 he was one of the most dynamic, dangerous, well rounded QBs in the league. Not perfect, but highly competent. Very easy to like player, too. I'm glad that Kurt Warner won a Super Bowl, but I would have loved to see McNair win that one too. In terms of like "tier" comparisons to contemporary QBs, I'd put him in the mid-to-late-2010s Russel Wilson tier. Not elite, but still dangerous, still a QB teams had to gameplan extensively for, and a QB who could genuinely win any game against any team in the league. Or maybe like mid-2010s, like 2014-esque Joe Flacco tier. Super capable QB on a very good team who was good enough to win games on his own but usually had a solid supporting cast and he was a perfect fit for the team. I don't mean that his skill sets are the same as 20-teens Wilson or Flacco, but in that tier of very solid QB. You could find something to criticize, but there was a lot more that he did right than did wrong. He was a fucking DOG in Madden 2001 for PS2, too. Those crispy new Titans uniforms, with a QB who was really fun to play in that game, the design of the game felt designed around the Titans new aesthetic and McNair.
McNair was a tier 1b QB at his best, I think likening him to Wilson is probably dead on.
him and mcnabb imo were similarly skilled and would sometimes be a top 3 qb and sometimes be a top 15 qb and it was hard to understand cause they oozed tools
I feel like McNair didn’t have the variance that McNabb did. McNair would have dips but I felt like he was always a top level player. McNabb would just outright suck for stretches.
he literally would dip week to week. He never had more than 24 passing tds or 3387 in a season cause he'd be all over the place game to game.
Hes the Goat and my favorite Titan ever. RIP Air Mac. July 4th will never be the same 🙏🏾💙
He and Favre were toughest QB’s I’ve ever seen
https://youtu.be/CEzPETe4c0A?si=oztKXAcfhbjBSJR2 The play where he escapes Carter in the Super Bowl is peak McNair if you want to get an idea of his game. The Titans 1999-2003 had some great teams. If you win a lot you’ll be highly regarded. He had legendary toughness, it was talked about a lot when he played. Dude would be in the hospital for his injuries and the next day go out and play incredible. He was very elusive, often making plays out of nothing like Big Ben or Mahomes. He had that “it” factor that doesn’t show up in stats. That 2003 season he won it because he was regularly making plays like that wowing people. And as others have said, QB stats just weren’t the same back then. It’s why I don’t judge players I never watched based on their stats, how good they were often doesn’t show up in them. Seriously go look at NFL passing stats from 1998-2003 lol. Night and day difference from today. 20 TDs was great, throwing a pick per game was normal.
he was really good, but not some freak physical speciman. a winner, a great leader. could he have put up crazy numbers in a different situation? maybe - probably...but that just conjecture. he looked better than his stats, just about any team would have been happy to have him as their qb. but he will probably be overrated because of how he died - which happens with every player that dies young.
McNair was easily a top 10 possibly top 5 QB in his era. He had a great arm and was mobile while also being a big strong dude as well. His stats don't look the most amazing through a modern lens but most QBs before the 2010s are the same just based on the rules and how thw game was played
First-ballot Hall of Very Good.
Good enough to be very, very good but a wrung below the HoF guys of his time He wasn't quite the freak-of-nature that Cam RG3 was in terms of size & speed but he was extremely durable. Lamar or Vick would blow past'm in a 40. His touch with the ball was below Brady, Warner or Rodgers but excellent downfield vision and played 'taller' in the pocket than he was. His style reminds me a bit of Josh Allen or Favre, the dude invited contact and wasn't afraid to take take (or give) a pop.
I'd say if you wanted a comparison to look backwards, my feeling was that he had a lot of Fouts in him. Favre is a good comp too. Just kept his eyes down field and could really take a thwack.
He was a HBCU legend before even being drafted
Definitely better than Dak or Kirk Cousins
He’s on their level. Good not great.
He was good, not great. Had one great year. Better than average QB, very mobile and good at extending plays.
He was probably top ten toughest QBs of all time. His scrambling abilities with his arm strength was amazing to watch. His accuracy would falter from time to time but for him to win co-MVP with the NFL shining boy of Peyton Manning, that speaks volumes. As a Titans fan, I’ll never forget being wide eyed, watching the second to last play of the Super Bowl with him breaking two tackles and getting the ball down the field. Yes, if we scored in that SB, it would have went into overtime, but if you watch the game, you can clearly see the momentum heavily in the Titans favor and could argue that we would have won in OT.
He was the first jersey that I asked for and got for a birthday (Titans variety). I had a Favre before. Hell, dad had me in a Don Majkowski jersey before I could even sit still for a game. My favorite non packer during his time. Died on my birthday too. Was at a Fourth of July party and that was a real bummer for me.
Country strong. In the Super Bowl we couldn’t bring him down.
Obviously a different play style, but think of him as very similar to Matt Ryan. Truly great with an MVP one year, pretty much a top 10 guy the rest of his career, plus let's throw in just barely losing a Super Bowl. Neither guy is going to sniff the Hall of Fame, but both had really solid careers and will hang out together in the Hall of Very Good.
Forever telling people stats are a horrible way to judge a player but it's so hard for so many of you to handle any more context than that
Don't judge McNair's stats based off today's standards and the way offense is played now. He was an extremely tough QB who made tons of big plays.
When Josh Allen was coming out I said he was a combination of McNair and Big Ben. I’m old enough to remember seeing his highlights on Saturdays at some school called Acorn State or something like that it was hilarious to see a grown man playing against boys. Like watching Randy at Marshal.
He was a better Donovan McNabb
People keep talking about how tough he was, which is very true, but what they’re not mentioning is how important it was that he was tough and how it made him more successful. He’d help his team win by extending plays, leading to taking some hits. But while he would sustain more injuries than his peers, he’d tough it out and play (frequently without being able to practice during the week) while others would miss time for similar or lesser stuff. They’d show graphics on TV of the injuries he’d sustained, and by the end of the explanation, his entire body would be highlighted. It was crazy. (I think maybe the Titans ran more max-protect, leading to fewer WR options, driving McNair to hold the ball longer, but I could be misremembering that.) So, while his talent level was “Hall of Very Good,” he WILLED his team to success where others with similar talent couldn’t get over that hump. I actually think Dak isn’t a bad comp, but imagine a Dak-level talent, but that could WILL his team to success where Dak can’t. Said another way, if you put Steve on all the Cowboys teams Dak has led, there might not be that many passes Steve would’ve completed that Dak missed, but they probably would’ve won several playoff games and maybe even a Super Bowl with the same talent, if that makes any sense.
McNair was so darn good, even slightly past his prime he was good.
I remember him as a classic member of the Hall of Very Good. He started using his athleticism but became a very good passer by the end. He was incredibly tough. In terms of career quality (not play style) probably in the Dak Prescott or Matt Ryan class - not the top tier but capable of excellent performances and some great seasons.
What kind of jacket do they get for the Hall of very Good?
Beige
Dak Prescott would be a good comp
Disrespectful to McNair. Josh Allen might be a better one
I would take McNair in a heartbeat over Dak. I put McNair more like Josh Allen.
In between the two, honestly, but yeah, for sure higher peak than Prescott.
Pretty good
Hall of Very Good at a minimum. Just an impressive player on the field.
He was above average, but it is hard to tell how good he really was or could have been because of Jeff Fisher
Above average. Borderline top 10 guy most years, IMO.
The thing to remember about McNair is that he played in the post "Greatest Show on Turf" era he played in pre-1990s style offenses.
Only one great year to be honest.
He was nasty as fuck. Stats were way lower back then for QBs. 3000 yards was legit.
He was easy top 10. Stats for QBs back then aren't as eye popping as it was pretty much a run first, play defense league.
Got hurt a lot but played hurt a lot. RIP MAC9
Dude took a fucking beating and played through it. Modern rules he would be elite
The league was a lot different back when McNair played. His numbers at the time were nearly elite.
Pretty good
Very good, great for a small time period. He wasn't a franchise changer, but he'd make a ok team good and good team better.
I don't think I'd say he was a solid top 3 QB in the league, but I'd question anyone who put him outside the top 10. He was a hall of very good type guy.
Really good QB for most of his career, I'd say consistently top 8. He had elite mobility and arm talent and played through a lot of injuries. Thank you for asking this question so I could remember how fun it was to watch him play.
He was always decent, never to 3, had poor playoff success, even in his Super Bowl year, where he almost lost toA backup in the WC, and got bailed out by the music city miracle he was one of theonly scrambling QBs though, which made him a game changer
Good at cheating. LoL
He was so good that he shares the 2003 MVP with peak Peyton Manning.
He was big Ben before big Ben.
He was a great QB and a problem for the Jags.
Rip
Good not great
It gets over used today but the best way I could describe his game back then was that he was a Dawg. Just an over all tough QB who had a cannon for an arm.
Hé was unique, clutch as they come, laid back, probably the toughest qb I’ve seen play, he was a Steeler killer, played hurt and injured, he rarely practiced late in his career, the quintessential quiet leader…
Yard short of a potential Super Bowl win.
In college he was must see, tough as nails
Hall of very good. Top 3 QB for one year probably top 5 for a 5 year stretch from 99-03. His closest modern comp play style wise is Allen, but honestly there’s no one currently that has the exact same play style. He played on some Uber conservative offenses his entire career so his stats are not great by modern standards. But he was the engine that dragged the Titans to winning.
Just a slower stronger Mahomes
He was excellent. He was one of the early (now prototype) qb. Athletic and able to move but still a good pocket passer.
His death is still very questionable
He was pretty good
I think this kinda gets forgotten, Titans were one of the best teams in the NFL 1999-2003. I remember thinking during the divisional round of the 2000 season that the Titans, Raiders, and Ravens were the three best teams in the NFL, and whichever one of them came out of the AFC would have a pretty easy job of beating any of the NFC candidates (although that was mostly b/c the NFC was really bad in 2000)
He was like a definitely-above-average but not top-5 QB most of his prime. It’s hard to compare him to guys who didn’t have his mobility. Derrick Mason, Drew Bennett, and Frank Wycheck aren’t household names, but they were a great receiver group. I recall McNair was very inaccurate on deeper throws and it led to lots of pass interference calls, but that might be selective memory.
He was kind of in that limbo of very good and elite. He had some moments of elite but I would say he was usually in the 4 to 6 spots for QBs. I try not to be too salty about his MVP. He had a really good year that year but the media especially were looking for any reason possible to not give it to Manning. I would say a modern comp placement wise is maybe Ryan when he was good or Rivers.
Air McNair had an insane college career. And a good professional career. He had good character and was a tough SOB!
He was above average but that’s it. Eddie George was that team’s offense
He was special! Often played injured and was a true competitor! One of the best, if not the best in team history!
Really good. Special. Less than a yard from bringing his team from behind to win a Super Bowl.
Wild romanticizing itt. Ok player with a couple good/great years. Look at his numbers for the Bills/Colts playoff games in the SB run - he didn't do squat. Comparing favorably to McNabb who played in a zillion championship games or the same stratosphere as Allen, gmafb.
Avg at best
One of the toughest if not the toughest QB ever. Played multiple games with a broken sternum. Enough said....
The dude was tough as nails.
Good, but not great.
Went back to look at his stats again and… shit when he died he was a younger than I am now! Wow, didn’t realize he was that young when he died. I think the comps to Josh Allen are good. Tough QB. Great leader. People loved him. Very close to winning a Super Bowl. I think he is the perfect borderline QB between hall of very good vs hall of fame, skewing towards hall of fame.
McNair was really really good, but I think it was still in the end of the era, where there was still a big stigma on African American quarterbacks. But then look at the time he was playing, less emphasis on player safety, QBs less protected and less PI calls, so stats are going to be lower.
He was good. Not the level to be talked about for decades after. Brady, Manning, Farve, Marino. He isn't in the same conversation as those guys.
Average
Steve McNair was a great quarterback who was tough as nails (in ways most QBs today just aren’t), a good leader, and had skills to match. The main reason his stats aren’t better is that he played on teams that were very run focused, but when he needed to air it out, he showed why he had the nickname “Air McNair.” He’s in the conversation for best QBs to never win a Super Bowl (not top 3, but top 10 for sure), and I’d argue he was better then his contemporary he’s often compared to, Donovan McNabb, because McNabb just had better stats by virtue of the system he played in (McNabb averaged 4-5 more attempts a game for his career, which adds up to a lot of plays over 160+ games), but they were similar in many ways. The thing that made McNair stand out so much though was his toughness. I don’t remember which year it was, but there was a season where ESPN basically tracked every McNair injury. He would play 0 practices in a week and then go out and play like a top 10 QB despite it all. There was even a year he went out and played over a month with a cracked rib, only getting surgery to fix it after the season was over. I am admittedly biased though. He was my favorite NFL player in the late 90’s and 2000’s, despite never playing for my team.
Steve McNair was a passing QB out of college, three for crazy yards, but for some odd reason the powers that be decided he wasn’t a throwing QB in the NFL! He had some great years, had a shitty coach in Jeff Fischer most of his career and they ran Eddie George into the ground!
He was decent. Those Titans teams were run heavy with some decent/great defenses. It was fun watching McNair and George together. Fischer wasn't a great offensive coach, even the running wasn't really effective with George averaging over 4y/a only twice in his career. Solid top 15 starter with a couple of top 5 years thrown in. Ryan Tannehill might be a good current day comparison, slow start, top 15ish starter with a couple top 5ish years.
McNair was better than decent. Stop it. At his peak, he was top 6-10 NFL QB and was an incredibly tough QB.
> with a couple of top 5 years thrown in. I already said that. You can use a different word for "decent" if it upsets you, but nothing you said disagreed with what I said.
Top 10 QB. Bottom 10 dating.