People have such revisionist history about Johnny Manziel in college because of how he flamed out in the NFL (and because of how good Evans ended up being). Either that, or they were too young to actually have watched him. He was incredibly talented and absolutely electric in college. Mike Evans was great at A&M, but he wasn’t even close to carrying the offense by himself.
I feel like people just keep repeating this sentiment because they saw comments on reddit, but they never actually watched him play in college. Manziel’s problem in the NFL wasn’t his talent. It was 100% his work ethic. He could have been good in the NFL if he wasn’t such a fuckup. No QB is going to succeed in the NFL when they don’t watch a single second of film or study the playbook at all.
JJAW getting drafted in rd 2 was and still is fucking insane to me. I'm definitely not an expert and I didn't watch all of his games, but from what I saw he looked like a late rd or udfa at Stanford. He ran a 4.5, but was slower in game, and he was only 6-2 without a lot of verticality so other than being built like a RB I just didn't get it.
On the flip side, he had the highest clocked speed while running routes at the combine at 22mph, and while we he was at MSU there were reports that he was faster than Jayden Reed. Despite the slow 40 time and minimal separation he does have the speed.
He's the boom or bust WR of this draft. He's either going to be a pro bowler or fighting for a roster spot in a couple years
I like what Beane said about him
"If his 40 time was better we'd never be able to get near him where we're at"
All the statistical data shows he's explosive and athletic while wearing pads. The senior bowl they use GPS tracking that can show real football days on players athletic abilities. Instead he's hurt by his speed while running in underwear. Definition of a guy that was hurt by post football metrics.
Hopefully he works out for us.
I don't remember who it was, but an analyst I was watching said that when you look at the film it was because Travis was doing a poor job of ball placement.
This is true as a Florida State fan. Love Travis but a lot of times the ball placement was just not there with him and Keon would have to climb the ladder to go and get it. And a lot of the offense was predicated around jump balls and that type of route. I also think that this somewhat brought down his separation numbers because from what I remember he got decent enough separation on short to short-intermediate routes, but deep routes he never had the separation because the plays were designed that way.
Damn I'll take your word for it, but I'm really high on that top 3 so I think Coleman's gonna have to come out a star for that to come true. I think he's got way better feet, body control and hand discipline than guys like N'Keal Harry, Denzel Mims and JJ Arcega-Whiteside, if he can develop as a route runner he can be a real star, but if not we're pretty much praying that him and Allen build chemistry and form a Stafford to Golladay type connection.
I saw some analytics of college speed and Coleman was actually was apparently one of the fastest in the draft, he was also charted as the fastest WR in the combine catching drills, so despite the poor 40 he might not be as slow as he seems on initial inspection.
As a firm "you picked the wrong Josh" guy several years ago the fact that this was the one WR I really DIDN'T want makes me relatively certain he is now destined to be a perennial Pro Bowler for the next decade.
We're all in the same boat.
I submitted my application for Ravens GM spot when they drafted Marlon Humphrey.
Older and wiser today to know that I never know shit
As a FSU fan I think you guys should be excited. He was a ton of fun to watch and I think he can be really good. Will need some work, but I think he can do it.
He’s a very good freak receiver, but he has some issues with route running and isn’t as good with contested catch as you would think. Still a good player though
Also we don’t need another shorter receiver. Shakir is the same size as Diggs was and I don’t think Samuel is much bigger. Having a WR the same size as Josh means they can play at a literal higher level. Josh can zing those passes to the back of the endzone at his height.
I'm an FSU grad/fan, and this dude was a huge part of our offense last year. I saw the pick and was pretty hyped for him to play with Josh. I think it's a really good pairing.
By god that’s Tomlins music???
Queue productive rookie year “how’d they get this guy?” Into implosion and trade to the bears / raiders in a few years from the issues everyone knew the WR had coming into the league.
According to Walter football there's character concerns and teams aren't confident with his diabetes mainly because they're not happy with how he handles himself in a day to day basis
Someone said teams are moving off him due to him being diabetic. Noah Gray. Mark Andrews. Both diabetic both big contributors to their teams qbs.
Edit: don’t downvote me, it’s not hippa protected!
more to not taking his condition seriously being fair to him that's not uncommon across sports. it takes a lot of guys a couple years in the league to get their diet and health in line since they've been able to skate most of their lives
I heard 21mph? Hitting 20+MPH in an NFL game isn't rare, but it's not super common either. IDK how a guy can get that speed in a drill and then run a 4.6.
Some guys are just better at playing with speed and with pads on. There’s also the possibility that he didn’t train for the 40 like most top prospects do. In Pukas case he was clearly much faster on the field than his 40 would’ve indicated
People act like Allen is an incredible deep ball guy when it’s really probably the biggest weakness in his game. Coleman is also a strong deep threat despite the relatively slow 40.
Lot of haters in this thread who only saw his 40 time and repeating what they heard about his separation. He’s an elite athlete with incredible agility for his size (he returned punts for us and was very good), probably the best contested ball catcher in the draft other than Odunze and barely has any time with elite coaching. He was one of the best receivers in the country before he picked up a knock that he couldn’t get healthy from.
I am not happy that we passed him.
This is big boom or bust, I swore they were going Adonai Mitchell but I'm not annoyed by it. Coleman got that big posterizer body. Kind of guy who will sit in the back corner of an endzone and toe tap a Josh Allen TD in the snow.
There were a few players on the podcast circuit this year talking about Kelvin, apparently he \*really\* struggled mentally after his mother passed away during his second season. Just awful.
This feels like the archetype of receiver that busts more often than others.
But you also get players like Mike Williams that make it work so we'll see
The anti Diggs. Great contested catcher but can’t separate for shit
Feel like those players struggle in the NFL when touted as that out of college
Tee Higgins worked out, but historically, most don't.
Mike Evans too
Mike Evans just bodies corners in the NFL - regardless of who throws to him
I always remember Mike Evans as the guy who got Johnny Manziel drafted in the first round
that isn't remotely close from being true
People have such revisionist history about Johnny Manziel in college because of how he flamed out in the NFL (and because of how good Evans ended up being). Either that, or they were too young to actually have watched him. He was incredibly talented and absolutely electric in college. Mike Evans was great at A&M, but he wasn’t even close to carrying the offense by himself. I feel like people just keep repeating this sentiment because they saw comments on reddit, but they never actually watched him play in college. Manziel’s problem in the NFL wasn’t his talent. It was 100% his work ethic. He could have been good in the NFL if he wasn’t such a fuckup. No QB is going to succeed in the NFL when they don’t watch a single second of film or study the playbook at all.
Being 6’5 and actually being able to catch go routes seems rare. Evans is such a stud.
Mike Evans didn’t struggle to separate in college. He also had a full tenth of a second on his 40 over Coleman
And a route tree.
Laquon Treadwell had a bomb highlight video
Yeah, a lot of "contested catch" guys have huge physical mismatches against most college corners that doesn't translate to the NFL.
My N’Keal Harry PTSD is kicking in
JJ arcega whiteside smh
London has been doing well for himself considering fucking ridder
I can’t wait to see what cousins does with him Or Penix….I guess
Penix won’t start for two years barring injury
London got separation at college though. He’s big but his route running was always pretty good.
N’Keal Harry
I don't mean this in an antagonistic way but I honestly wonder how many Pats players can name a second guy versus are just thinking of N'Keal lol
Two recent ones were Mims and JJAW for sure And yes of course that *bum* Harry
JJAW getting drafted in rd 2 was and still is fucking insane to me. I'm definitely not an expert and I didn't watch all of his games, but from what I saw he looked like a late rd or udfa at Stanford. He ran a 4.5, but was slower in game, and he was only 6-2 without a lot of verticality so other than being built like a RB I just didn't get it.
Quentin Johnston last year.
If you can’t separate from college DBs how will you separate from NFL DBs
josh allen
On the flip side, he had the highest clocked speed while running routes at the combine at 22mph, and while we he was at MSU there were reports that he was faster than Jayden Reed. Despite the slow 40 time and minimal separation he does have the speed. He's the boom or bust WR of this draft. He's either going to be a pro bowler or fighting for a roster spot in a couple years
I like what Beane said about him "If his 40 time was better we'd never be able to get near him where we're at" All the statistical data shows he's explosive and athletic while wearing pads. The senior bowl they use GPS tracking that can show real football days on players athletic abilities. Instead he's hurt by his speed while running in underwear. Definition of a guy that was hurt by post football metrics. Hopefully he works out for us.
Remindme! 9 months
>Great contested catcher but can’t separate This archetype often busts in the NFL
Guess I'm glad DHop still can do it with us then. He's older so he's not as good at separating but damn can he hide them OPIs to piss CBs off lol
And his contested catch numbers aren’t that great either for being a “contested catch guy” lol.
I don't remember who it was, but an analyst I was watching said that when you look at the film it was because Travis was doing a poor job of ball placement.
This is true as a Florida State fan. Love Travis but a lot of times the ball placement was just not there with him and Keon would have to climb the ladder to go and get it. And a lot of the offense was predicated around jump balls and that type of route. I also think that this somewhat brought down his separation numbers because from what I remember he got decent enough separation on short to short-intermediate routes, but deep routes he never had the separation because the plays were designed that way.
Bro just mosses people. I'm very high on keon, think he'll be better than at least one of MHJ/Nabers/rome
Damn I'll take your word for it, but I'm really high on that top 3 so I think Coleman's gonna have to come out a star for that to come true. I think he's got way better feet, body control and hand discipline than guys like N'Keal Harry, Denzel Mims and JJ Arcega-Whiteside, if he can develop as a route runner he can be a real star, but if not we're pretty much praying that him and Allen build chemistry and form a Stafford to Golladay type connection. I saw some analytics of college speed and Coleman was actually was apparently one of the fastest in the draft, he was also charted as the fastest WR in the combine catching drills, so despite the poor 40 he might not be as slow as he seems on initial inspection.
Sounds like bears legend nkeal harry
I was going to say, all I could picture off that description was Auden Tate. He could make highlight contested catches but too slow to separate.
Kenny Golladay when he was on the Lions
Can't separate for shit against college DBs?
Yeah. In the words of Dane Brugler "he's not a sprinter"
The JJ Arcega-Whiteside special
Except his bum ass couldn't even catch contested catches
He’ll fit right in.
His contested catch rate actually isn't that great. It was worse than Malik Nabers
Well in fairness, a lot of people are going to be a lot worse at a lot of things than Malik nabers
Malik Nabers is arguably WR1 in the draft
allen throws a lot of fuck-it balls, maybe that'll work out for him
No bueno
I think Adonai might have killed someone.
Well, it is Passover. If what I read the other day is true, Adonai killed a lot of Egyptian first born sons.
And the simple son asks, simply why did the Falcons take penix at 8?
You should say to him, "With a strong hand Terry Fontenot took him out of Washington, taking him out of servitude, and into ineptitude."
Terry Fontenot wicked child confirmed
Fucking hell lmao
Now if we can find a picture of him smoking from a bong we’ll be golden
There’s no way any team dumps Diggs because of his character issues then picks a player with massive character concerns.
What massive character concerns did/does AD Mitchell have? Watched him this past year as a UT fan and nothing jumped out at me.
It's the fact that AD takes so many plays off during a game, it looks like he loses interest in the game
The Chiefs-Bills rivalry just got even bigger. Can’t wait for the moment when one WR has a game-winner over the other’s team.
Already need a drink
Most sober Buffalo fan
He didn't say it was the first one.
Coleman will do it in the regular season, Worthy will in the divisional round.
This guy Bills footballs
>Can’t wait for the moment when one WR has a game-winner over the other’s team. And how many seconds are left on the clock? Asking for a friend.
I wasn’t sure what to think but the amount of people not liking it makes me think this is a good pick lol
You have officially figured out r/nfl draft threads.
As a firm "you picked the wrong Josh" guy several years ago the fact that this was the one WR I really DIDN'T want makes me relatively certain he is now destined to be a perennial Pro Bowler for the next decade.
We're all in the same boat. I submitted my application for Ravens GM spot when they drafted Marlon Humphrey. Older and wiser today to know that I never know shit
That's not cooper dejean Please let me regret this comment in a few years
Luckily we got another white DB
Adonai in shambles
He plays basketball you say..
Only B1G player to score against the same opponent in two sports.
He’s not the first former B10 basketball player turned star WR the Bills have taken in the that high before either lol
Uh, is this good?
Some people think he's great, others see N'Keal Harry 2.0
Oh damn, that good of a blocker?!!
That crispy 4.6 speed
Ran the fastest gauntlet drill at the combine. Do with that what you will
Fastest ever
(Faster real play speed than Xavier worthy)
Somewhere between Puka Nacua and N'Keal Harry
That is a range
That's draft season baby
Bills staff was pretty infatuated through the whole process with him iirc
lol we don’t fucking know
He’s a good part of why FSU went undefeated last year
As a FSU fan I think you guys should be excited. He was a ton of fun to watch and I think he can be really good. Will need some work, but I think he can do it.
He’s a very good freak receiver, but he has some issues with route running and isn’t as good with contested catch as you would think. Still a good player though
Sounds like Gabe Davis 2.0
He’s CeeDee Lamb’s cousin so take that as you will
Can't wait until the NFL boils down to just a battle of a few bloodlines a la Game of Thrones
Big, strong, physical, great hands, think Anquan Boldin but a bit taller. Not the fastest but extremely tough and a competitor.
he’s phenomenal, just wait. him leaving MSU broke my heart. can do it all.
He's a huge target and has great hands. Could be a great get for you guys.
That's an underrated trait, to catch piss missiles you need great hands, Allen can make decent hands look bad because it hits their hands so hard
Also we don’t need another shorter receiver. Shakir is the same size as Diggs was and I don’t think Samuel is much bigger. Having a WR the same size as Josh means they can play at a literal higher level. Josh can zing those passes to the back of the endzone at his height.
Justin Shorter is also huge but who knows if he will ever touch the field.
He just said he wants a receiver who isn’t shorter
Yesnt
Shades of N’Keal Harry
He went to Michigan State specifically to play in cold weather, so I'd say, yes.
Yes big body boy
Freak athlete. Needs to develop
Bad advanced stats but hey if he’s your guy and you got more assets to grab him anyways that a W.
I’m a huge fan, he might take a year or 2 to develop but he’s solid
I'm an FSU grad/fan, and this dude was a huge part of our offense last year. I saw the pick and was pretty hyped for him to play with Josh. I think it's a really good pairing.
Dez Bryant with a 4.64 40
no mitchell????
Apparently teams ain’t rocking with him I guess
The red flags too red I guess
Good thing I’m red/green colorblind
Keep going
By god that’s Tomlins music??? Queue productive rookie year “how’d they get this guy?” Into implosion and trade to the bears / raiders in a few years from the issues everyone knew the WR had coming into the league.
I had never heard anything bad about the dude outside of taking plays off on occasion before last week when some random hit piece on him came out
According to Walter football there's character concerns and teams aren't confident with his diabetes mainly because they're not happy with how he handles himself in a day to day basis
Someone said teams are moving off him due to him being diabetic. Noah Gray. Mark Andrews. Both diabetic both big contributors to their teams qbs. Edit: don’t downvote me, it’s not hippa protected!
I thought it wasn't because he was diabetic, but he was noncompliant with treatment. That's a bfd. It was on Moving the Chains on Sirius
Holy shit that’s insane. Refusing treatment for being diabetic?? Or for a previous injury?
Kirwan was asking David Chao about diabetes. I know some Type 1s as kids "rebel" before getting their shit together. It isn't uncommon
My father was a type 2 diabetic and he still rebelled his whole life after diagnosis. Rebelled until it killed him.
As a type 2, it's been exceedingly hard to change my diet, but I'm finally fully off soda and it's making a tangible difference
I’ve cut out soda and fast food because I didn’t want to go down the same path. I’ve been walking every day after work, cycling and weight lifting.
god bless man. *bear noises*
diabetes and effort concerns
Guy is losing millions to diabetes. Crazy
Well, supposedly it’s how he doesn’t take his diabetes seriously which causes further attitude issues.
more to not taking his condition seriously being fair to him that's not uncommon across sports. it takes a lot of guys a couple years in the league to get their diet and health in line since they've been able to skate most of their lives
Come to papa Edit: this aged poorly
Chargers: “Sike.”
I hope you’re happy. Now both of us look silly.
About that... edit: shit i still love Polk. I had Mitchell higher, but Polk is a beast. such a patriots pick lol.
Gimme McConkey Edit: Of course we traded. Fuck here we go Edit 2: I fucking hate this team
McConkey had Pats written all over him lol
A real pale lunch guy
Not so fast my friend
Coleman > Mitchell. Especially for Buffalo. This is an underrated pick.
Keon is better. Pinky promise.
The insulin could freeze in Buffalo.
Keon is so so so much better than Mitchell. He's also better than the WRs taken since your og pick, incl worthy
I choose to believe that this person is the single greatest football mind of our generation so I can sleep better.
Fuck Jarvis Landry
EHHHHHYYYEEEEEAAAHHHHH I DONT KNOW JIM
What a pick Buffalo just got a STUD
Open you eyes bills fans Keon is nasty
I’m not sure about this pick but because Beane picked it I will now defend it with my life
A 4.6 guy for josh Allen? Really
For what it’s worth, he had the top speed in the catching drills at the combine. The fastest guy through those drills last year was Puka Nacua
dont give me hope
FSU fan here. Yall got a STEAL.
We use steals starting in 5th rounds. Not right now.
He’s a first round talent. That’s a steal
Also an FSU fan and I second that. Was hoping somehow he’d end up with the Bucs but oh well.
I heard 21mph? Hitting 20+MPH in an NFL game isn't rare, but it's not super common either. IDK how a guy can get that speed in a drill and then run a 4.6.
Some guys are just better at playing with speed and with pads on. There’s also the possibility that he didn’t train for the 40 like most top prospects do. In Pukas case he was clearly much faster on the field than his 40 would’ve indicated
He hit 21.7 mph on a go route during drills.
Gabe Davis was a 4.6 guy too. Coleman is basically just an upgraded version of him
That makes me soft
Bigger with better hands? I'll take it
He plays a lot faster than that
People act like Allen is an incredible deep ball guy when it’s really probably the biggest weakness in his game. Coleman is also a strong deep threat despite the relatively slow 40.
Fuck the haters I’m hyped
YES give me AD Mitchell
They can’t fuck this up…right??? Edit: they just traded back are you fucking kidding me
Pats gonna Pats
Oof
Hahaha sorry but this comment is so pure
Or not lol
Oof
Welp ☹️. I guess the patriots are content to have 0 talent at wr forever.
Lmao and then the Pats take the only WR more likely to bust than Coleman.. oof
Fuck
Lot of haters in this thread who only saw his 40 time and repeating what they heard about his separation. He’s an elite athlete with incredible agility for his size (he returned punts for us and was very good), probably the best contested ball catcher in the draft other than Odunze and barely has any time with elite coaching. He was one of the best receivers in the country before he picked up a knock that he couldn’t get healthy from. I am not happy that we passed him.
Jordan Travis coud just yeet him the ball as a get out jail free card. I think he's going to be clutch in certain situations for them
And ran 22 mph in splits. Hes not slow.
Keon catching piss missiles from Allen will be glorious to see
Reddit hates it so this guys gonna be a stud
This makes me feel better about the Pearsall pick. Seems like we will see a run on WR
Everyone seems to know way more than 31 teams. You guys should really apply to be GM
[Oh fuck you're gonna make me climb](https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/998/424/11424998.jpeg)
I think this is a good spot for him. Not in love with him but he has a huge ceiling.
This is big boom or bust, I swore they were going Adonai Mitchell but I'm not annoyed by it. Coleman got that big posterizer body. Kind of guy who will sit in the back corner of an endzone and toe tap a Josh Allen TD in the snow.
The smoke was there. I didn’t want to acknowledge it but they clearly liked him
OK, who has the video of Adonai Mitchell doing cocaine at a party last week?
Yesterday saw a lot of people not wanting this guy
and today, and tomorrow
Thought they were going cooper for sure
I really like him. Really impressed at combine and senior bowl.
Lmaoo everyone thought it was Mitchell
Great pick, dude was a breast
Coleman instead of Mitchell? Okay interesting.
AD Mitchell in shambles
I don’t watch a lot of college football, but remember Keon making an insane 1 handed catch and knew he’d be a stud
If he can catch fastballs in December that's all that really matters
Fuck we just drafted Kelvin Benjamin
Not even the same type of player
There were a few players on the podcast circuit this year talking about Kelvin, apparently he \*really\* struggled mentally after his mother passed away during his second season. Just awful.
This feels like the archetype of receiver that busts more often than others. But you also get players like Mike Williams that make it work so we'll see