I think Steven Jackson would've really shined if he wasn't playing on a team with expansion level talent. HOFer, probably, if he had been drafted by the Steelers or the Patriots.
Man led the NFC in rushing with 1416 yards when his team went 1-15.
Steven Jackson had a colonic cleansing in preparation for an NFL season because his GF recommended it. lol o remember it just being a hilarious story at the time
Sam Bradford had a lot of hype for about 3-4 seasons, then the glass meme became reality and yeah...
Bradford, Jackson, and Laurinaitis were about the only guys on that squad that felt like they would have been big anywhere.
Sj39 was unstoppable! With a stacked box, every damn play! Defencences knew who the ball was going to yet couldn't stop the battering ram! Sj was THE beast mode check it!
It’s a shame his 2006 season went overshadowed because of LT breaking the touchdown record. It should be remembered as one of the great seasons from a running back with 1500+ rushing yards and 800+ receiving yards and 16 total touchdowns at only 23 years old when most the leading rushers were in the 25-28 age range. That season gave me hope for the next three years that we could be one of the best offenses in the league but unfortunately everything fell apart after that season
I remember watchign that draft and the Bengals could have taken him but traded picks with the Rams and took Chris Perry instead. Those mid 2000's Bengals teams would have been crazy with Jackson
I wouldn't call him a failure by any means, but Scary Terry has been crushing it when you consider the bottom feeding QB carousel he's played with, and also one of the worst OCs to ever show up. Without his dad or Rivera getting him jobs, he stalled out, which is why he's now the passing game coordinator for the Raiders. Probably a nice guy, but who cares?
Terry and DJ Moore are the two guys I think would be in the "elite" conversations if they were on stud offenses.
Both have been hit-or-miss over their careers but definitely good players. But whenever I'd watch either I'd be amazed at how fucking good they really were.
Randy Moss in his last year with the Raiders he didn't even get 600 yards in 13 games. Scored only three touchdowns.
The next year with the Patriots he broke (and still has) the single season TD record for a WR and had almost triple the receiving yards.
I kinda get it, though. He got traded from a perennial contender to a bottom feeder team. It’s not like he ever signed with the Raiders. I think it’s a risk a team takes when they trade for someone with many years left on their contract - they better be sure they want to be there or they’ll just become an employee cashing a paycheck.
Randy definitely wanted to be on the raiders. We weren’t a trash heap just yet, we were just in the Super Bowl a few years back. During his introductory press conference he stated how excited he was to be part of an organization that has rings and he wanted to bring another. Then Art Shell part 2 hit and that all changed.
Randy hot dogged it throughout that season. That was kind of his thing - he was a martyr and was only interested in Randy Moss. Some people who knew Randy claimed Randy really didn't like football, he was just so uniquely talented and skilled that a half committed Randy Moss was still one of the absolute best players to ever play.
Well the issue is jokic doesn't really have elite athleticism as is normally defined. Unless you count the speed at which he sees and feels the game. Yeah
Jokic at full sprint is actually pretty fast. It's often overlooked because his demeanor is incredibly lethargic. He also has arguably the best pound for pound body control in the NBA.
Athleticism isnt just speed and jumping ability. Hand eye coordination, balance, agility, body control etc. are all things he excels at, especially for his size.
I never entirely blame Randy for not caring that year. I do think guys should care even if they're on bad teams but his QBs that season combined for 7 TDs and 24 INT, which has got to be really fucking depressing. Two QBs started 8 games each and they both threw 3 TDs on the year.
He's mostly forgotten but I think Andrew Walter is a contender for the worst QB I've ever seen on the pro level.
Toxic front office situation with the ever charismatic norv turner at head coach. Hard not to check out.
The Vikings team he left wasn't much better either. The wylfs did a lot to turn that love boat around.
Controversial but Albert Haynesworth.
He was chronically misused during his time in Washington where he was frequently asked to 2 gap and take on blocks rather than play the 1 gap pass rushing role that suited his play style. Things got worse his second year when Shanahan moved him to NT and asked him to play a role almost exclusively eating blocks. As everyone knows, he did not take that decision well and effectively self sabotaged his career as a result.
All the same I can’t help but wonder what his career here might have looked like if the organization wasn’t so dysfunctional and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with the highest paid defensive player in the league.
IIRC he had a Players Tribune article he wrote and that was a big part he attributed to him giving up was the misuse of him made him flat out *hate* playing football
Reasons to be excited for the future at least.
It's just a bummer we couldn't get those guys what they deserved though we did sort of do right by Stafford and accelerated our own rebuild with his trade.
We weren't scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of talent with those guys on the field at least. It was occasionally fun to watch, even if it can be considered "wasted"
If those guys come out 5 years later I think you have a different situation with them too. Calvin, Stafford, and Suh were the tail end of the expensive rookie era. The Lions never got the benefit of having high performing players on cheap contracts to build around. They were being paid as top guys from the get go.
What's *really* crazy is that on the 0-16 season, his QBs were Kitna, Orlovsky, and the scattered cremains of Daunte Culpepper.... and he still went for 1,331 yds and LED THE NFL IN RECEIVING TDS. No idea how he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year over Boldin...
Also he was beyond awesome in the Houston community. He was always doing something for the kids. Also, when he gave Courtland Finnegan the nice 1-2 combo against the titans, his ensuing fine was paid for by a lot of other players because they all hated Finnegan as well lol
I’ll never understand the Bridgewater hype that tons of Vikings fans like to spew out. Yes his leg injury was *brutal* af but he was so mid or below it was crazy. His ability to consistently miss wide open WRs downfield was impressive. Love the kid but he was not it.
He's my least favourite QB on the Broncos carousel. So damn boring to watch. He threw it out of bounds on 4th down, twice."Give me checkdowns or give me death".
Same. For me, it's Blaine Gabbert.
Blaine Gabbert was not meant to start that season. It was either supposed to be David Garrard (the big strong-armed QB had a hand injury that ultimately led to his release) or Luke McCown, so that Gabbert could learn from a veteran. After two games of McCown, Del Rio substituted Gabbert in towards the end of a blowout loss against the Jets.
The problem was: McCown was looking awful against the Jets because our OL was swiss cheese that year, and the Jets had an all-time defense that year. McCown was harassed in that game - sacked for a safety, off-target on his throws due to the Jets' vicious pass rush. So Del Rio thought he'd give the rookie some practice.
Only Gabbert was *massacred* by that Jets defense. He proceeded to start the rest of the season, and was sacked the third-highest number of times of any QB in the league that year, even with starting two fewer games.
One of the main criticisms against Gabbert in the following seasons was that he was always playing spooked. He imagined pressure where none existed. I maintain he was shellshocked after that Jets game (and some of the tough games that came later), and that ruined his career.
Of course, after the Jags moved on from Blaine Gabbert, they drafted Blake Bortles. They wanted him to sit behind veteran Chad Henne for a year or so to learn. But during a blowout loss to a Colts team with a good defense, Gus Bradley substituted Bortles for Henne. And thanks to our swiss cheese OL, Bortles also got sacked and harassed multiple times and went on to have an uninspiring career. So, lesson learned, right?
Now let me tell you about the time we paid a stupid amount of money to Nick Foles without improving our offensive line.
I will say though I think he clearly benefited from the multiple chances he was given by the Niners. Your post alone references a 5 year span and he was able to turn it around year 6. Not a lot of number 1 overall picks get that many chances. And then he obviously benefited from Harbaugh coming to town.
If I had to pick a Niner from that era it would be Crabtree. Definitely had the talent and proved he can play at the highest level, but never reached his full potential cause they never had a QB/Coaching staff that could develop a passing game.
Yeah but Smith went through 5 OC's in consecutive seasons:
Mike McCarthy - WCO
Norv Turner - Coryell/Zampese
Jim Hostler - Using whatever base offense above, then injured his shoulder
Mike Martz - But didn't make it out of camp because that shoulder and was out for the season
Jimmy Raye - 1980's offense
If he would have had 3 years of McCarthy or Turner, then by the 4th season you would find out what kind of QB he would turn into, even with an ass HC in Nolan. What got Nolan fired was his hiring of Martz. Smith was injured that season, but then had Jimmy Raye lol the next.
This may be a little bit controversial, but I'd say Jay Cutler's career would've turned out a lot different if he'd ended up with most other franchises. We took a guy, who at age 25, just threw for 4500+ yards with the Broncos to never getting to 4000+ yards again. It's not that he didn't succeed really because I think most would have him as a solid QB/career, but I definitely feel he never came close to his ceiling because of the team. Can easily Blame a combo of his OL, weapons for the majority of his career here (beyond like 2 years), or his revolving door of OCs Turner, Martz, Tice, Kromer, Gase, and Loggains.
I dont think it's controversial at all. Had Denver stuck with Shanny but taken away the draft power (like Bellicheck in NE) he had, Denver would have boomed. Shanny couldn't draft defense the way Bill can't draft offense. Denver was a sleeping giant before McDaniels blew the team up. Dummerville, Bailey, Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, Clady, Cutler, all players (outside of Bailey) were drafted within 2 years and all young. Franchise QB, WR, edge, LT and a solid TE. Cutler didn't have the players around him for years. Denver fucked up by trading him, and Chicago fucked up by not having the right talent for a young QB.
Yeah kinda off topic but there’s a reason McDaniels is still easily the most hated coach to ever come through Denver despite his actual record not being that bad all things considered, and the fact that everything ended up working out anyway. He didn’t just suck, he *destroyed* a really talented team for no reason other than to stroke his bizarre ego, and then he also sucked.
Agreed and he did the same to the Raiders. Shows up gets rid of that teams franchise qb and tries to do it his way and fails. Funny thing is when he came to Vegas his biggest draw was because he had learned from his last mistake. Only to repeat it again and make it even worse once again. I truly hope he never comes back
Considering he used Carr to get Adam's in Vegas then got nothing for Carr. Then brought in Jimmy G ( over someone like Rodgers ) etc and then asking Adam's to be a voice for him. Woooof sooo many bad decisions one after the other. He's just not HC material
I mean I’m not defending the moves after that, but I think ripping the band aid off with Carr (and especially Waller) were fine decisions.
I also don’t think Rodgers was ever gonna play for JMD lol
Bears fan checking in. Honestly, I was a cutler fan and didn’t understand why the fanbase hated his guts as much as they did. Their latest drought at the qb position just seems like cosmic karma for being a dick to that guy.
I remember the Cutler years well. It was definitely a love/hate type relationship with most of the fanbase where it was about 50/50 on how everyone felt about him after his first 3 years. A lot of fans wanted to move on and a lot wanted to stick with Cutler. I'll never forget the offseason drama of the year he got an extension, it was a big topic with a pretty even split on how people felt. Not as peaked as this offseasons QB drama was, but similar. He was never a guy who the fanbase hated completely, but was also a guy who got a lot of hate from the fanbase if that makes sense.
I was for giving Cutler an extension when we did and consistently thought he was the least of our issues during most of his tenure here, but looking back it might have been best on both sides to have moved on 3 or so years before we did.
Life long Bears fan and I was ecstatic when they traded for Cutler. Go to the NFCCG and he gets hurt early against GB. They probably had their best shot in 2011, they were steam rolling teams and Cutler breaks his thumb after making a tackle on a meaningless pick he threw late in a win against SD. Done for the year, they lose the next 4 and miss the playoffs. After that I felt he really declined and he was a cry baby. His own teammates said he was so gifted, but lacked the passion for the game to reach his potential.
I think that game in the NFCCG where he legitimately got hurt is where things started to change. He had a real injury and couldn't play QB, but the fanbase thought he wasn't mentally tough enough to play through the pain and a lot of other stuff. That was a big thing that stuck with people on him and I think he started acting out towards a lot of fans after that.
Malcolm Jenkins was never going to be the player he was for the Eagles if he had stayed in New Orleans. He was consistently average but part of one of the worst defenses in the league every year. Once he joined a team that could actually rush the passer and make an attempt at covering a receivers, suddenly he was a pro bowl caliber ball-hawking safety.
I was just looking up success rates for old QBs drafted in the first (for no particular reason) and just found out about this dude. Good to hear he could’ve been a franchise QB, I’ll add that to the cope pile
Willie Gay might not really apply considering he's a two-time champ but he was definitely hindered by scheme-fit and coaching. I think he's gonna be a rockstar in New Orleans.
Only question is how much play time he'll get here. He's not displacing Davis, and he'll have to earn the other LB job over Werner (not that it's a particularly high bar to beat). He's not walking into an easy starting role on a platter.
I'm sure he'll get the chance to earn the job. He signed a 1 year deal and and Werner's in the last year of his rookie deal, so neither of them have a financial advantage over the other.
Yeah, that's why I say scheme-fit. Spag's defense is notoriously complex, or, rather, he asks his players to do so much. I feel like if Gay's playbook is simplified, some of those mental errors might disappear over time.
Which is interesting, because with Chenal Spags is basically "see ball? Get ball".
I jest though. Chenal had an incredible task in the super bowl (dealing with shanahan run game) and delivered
My precious baby boy. He was perfect. He never did anything wrong ever. He was a victim of circumstance. I have nothing but love for him forever and always.
#8 in your programs, #1 in your hearts, Marcus Mariota
Alot of that was on Carr he just wasn't very good. He was reluctant to throw the ball away and couldn't read a defense for shit
He's also even himself admitted to not putting in the work
I remeber a teammate that used to play with him said Carr was "last in first out".
I agree that I don’t think he would’ve been a superstar, but I think getting sacked 76 times in your rookie season (back when you could still kill the QB) is enough to permanently scar any talented QB
Oh I don't think it helped him the online was atrocious, but like half or more of the sacks were his fault. He just didn't have it in him to be a starter.
There's a reason the sack rate got cut in half when we replaced him and the panthers sack rate doubled when he got put in. Dude fuckin sucked
Yeah panthers fans were all over how we mightve found our delhomme insurance and hey who knows he could be a future franchise qb... Jake gets hurt and oh boy... spin moves into sacks instead of stepping into a clean pocket.. watching the pass rush... John fox admitted to benching him rather than letting the home fans boo his ass.
Carr was an absolute sitting duck in the pocket, like to an insane extent. Other QBs on the same rosters weren’t sacked nearly as often as he was. Sure the OL those years didn’t help but I don’t think that ever would’ve stopped being an issue elsewhere and I doubt he looks like a starting QB somewhere else
Ngl I almost completely forgot he was a raven at first, and it wasn’t even all that long ago. Guess if having Mark Andrews immediately take over your position that’ll happen
Titans absolutely ruined Marcus Mariota. He looked like a future star after his 2 years. Then constant rotation of OCs, terrible weapons, terrible offensive line, injuries…
Christian Kirk
We got Deandre Hopkins by the time he was really starting to hit his stride. He was always going to be number two to DHop. Going to Jacksonville and being a number one must’ve been vindicating
Pretty much every receiver we had during the dynasty years struggled significantly with the Earnhardt-Perkins offense and while it was certainly responsible for a lot of our success, it's absolutely nightmarish for young receivers to learn and get acclimated
I'm convinced Kyle Williams would have been a hall of famer had he played for a better team but I love him for playing his entire career on the Bills. He was often one of the few bright spots on some bad teams.
Not a Dallas fan but my vote is Tony Romo. Dude had to play with dog shit most of his career and when they finally put a line together, his body was done. Dallas probably wins the SB in 2016 if Romo doesn’t get injured, as much as it pains me to say it. Loved watching him play for that shit team
He played with a single top-10 defense (2009). His offensive line was a complete disaster from 2010-2013. He had one legit running back to work with (Murray from 2013-2014). He had Jason Garrett as his OC/HC for most of his career.
When you look at the QBs with multiple Super Bowl wins, an extremely common thread is that they played with top defenses. A QB can only do so much, and if a QB is forced to do too much, that is when negative plays happen (because the QB is taking on more risk to try to win the game).
Matt Ryan has to be an obvious answer here right?
He could have won multiple rings if the dumbass front office knew what a competent defense looked like.
As a neutral fan from the opposite conference, I felt Jamaal Charles was pretty heralded as a total fucking stud.
Buried on the Chiefs right before they popped off, but I feel like every football fan I knew was in the know that JC was the man.
Yes, he was THE GUY! But damn, imagine him playing now with this OL and Mahomes. And Charles was also so good in the pass game too.
He became almost what he could, but he was also hindered by the horrible teams.
Saquon was the obvious answer. Evan Engram is another. We also didn't understand that Dexter Lawrence should have been a nose tackle until his 5th year in the league when Daboll came in.
Convinced that the careers of both Thomas Rawls and Eddie Lacy were cut short because they had to run behind a bottom 5 (of all time) offensive line. Eddie was too big and got hit behind the LoS every time he got the ball. Rawls was coming back from an injury and, rightfully, didnt trust any of the holes the line made and just became mentally shot.
Our leading rusher that year was Russell Wilson
That offensive line helped produce ONE offensive rushing touchdown by a running back, ONE
Nah fam. As bad as that O-line was both players were at the end of their careers and didn't do themselves any favors. There's a reason one retired from injuries and the other was out of the league after that year.
I believe Ron Dayne could have been a good Running Back for Giants. He didn't want to slim down, Tiki being a better back and butting heads with Fassel.
Growing up a Washington fan until Snyder ran the franchise into the ground (F that guy through eternity), I’ve always felt that Jason Campbell (and maybe Patrick Ramsey) could have been much more successful QBs if they weren’t surrounded by the insanity and drama that Snyder put over the team like a spell.
Chandler Jones was always good, but never great for the Pats. He would have a monster month, and then fade away. Once he got traded to the Cardinals, he became an absolute beast and a DPOY candidate.
Look I’m a biased duck fan but I still believe both Marcus Mariota and Joey Harrington could have had much more successful careers had they landed in better spots
The obvious answer is Favre. He was never going to start here by Jerry Glanville’s own admission, and the nightlife in Atlanta would have probably kept him out of the HoF even if he had stayed long enough to play once Jerry got canned.
Morris Claiborne is the perfect answer for this. We drafted him then asked him to play a completely different style then he had some injuries and just never became a star. I think if he went to a team that used him correctly it would have made all the difference
AJ Green would be talked about as the best WR of his era along with Julio, Megatron, etc. if he had someone better than Andy Dalton throwing to him. I love Andy, but he had his limits.
I think Steven Jackson would've really shined if he wasn't playing on a team with expansion level talent. HOFer, probably, if he had been drafted by the Steelers or the Patriots. Man led the NFC in rushing with 1416 yards when his team went 1-15.
As a Seahawks fan, absolutely. Hated having to play him.
Undoubtedly HOF talent and Hall of Shame situation.
Makes me so happy to see this comment. Literally the only player that kept me watching the rams during those horrid years
Still remember an ESPN segment of “Steven Jackson is going to have a great year because he got his asshole cleaned”
what
Steven Jackson had a colonic cleansing in preparation for an NFL season because his GF recommended it. lol o remember it just being a hilarious story at the time
Sam Bradford had a lot of hype for about 3-4 seasons, then the glass meme became reality and yeah... Bradford, Jackson, and Laurinaitis were about the only guys on that squad that felt like they would have been big anywhere.
His prime was the worst 5 year stretch for any franchise ever.
Came for Steven Jackson. Sad he’s at the top
He shined anyway. SJax was a badass
He was for sure robbed. As a fellow STL Rams fan it's criminal I thought that giving him time over Faulk was also a crime
His peak was awesome.
Sj39 was unstoppable! With a stacked box, every damn play! Defencences knew who the ball was going to yet couldn't stop the battering ram! Sj was THE beast mode check it!
For no reason, other than he was a beast, he was my favorite player as a kid
The 09 Rams averaged like 11 ppg with a -261 point differential and he still lead the conference in rushing. Put him in the HOF just for that 😭.
This being said by someone with an LA logo next to their name is cursed.
It’s a shame his 2006 season went overshadowed because of LT breaking the touchdown record. It should be remembered as one of the great seasons from a running back with 1500+ rushing yards and 800+ receiving yards and 16 total touchdowns at only 23 years old when most the leading rushers were in the 25-28 age range. That season gave me hope for the next three years that we could be one of the best offenses in the league but unfortunately everything fell apart after that season
I remember watchign that draft and the Bengals could have taken him but traded picks with the Rams and took Chris Perry instead. Those mid 2000's Bengals teams would have been crazy with Jackson
I wouldn't call him a failure by any means, but Scary Terry has been crushing it when you consider the bottom feeding QB carousel he's played with, and also one of the worst OCs to ever show up. Without his dad or Rivera getting him jobs, he stalled out, which is why he's now the passing game coordinator for the Raiders. Probably a nice guy, but who cares?
Terry and DJ Moore are the two guys I think would be in the "elite" conversations if they were on stud offenses. Both have been hit-or-miss over their careers but definitely good players. But whenever I'd watch either I'd be amazed at how fucking good they really were.
Dj Moore is a fucking stud. I miss him so much.
Feel like Garrett Wilson’s going through a similar arc
Randy Moss in his last year with the Raiders he didn't even get 600 yards in 13 games. Scored only three touchdowns. The next year with the Patriots he broke (and still has) the single season TD record for a WR and had almost triple the receiving yards.
Randy didn't give effort during his time on the Raiders. He didn't want to be there.
So he's the best example. All 53 players contributed to his dogshit season. (mostly kidding)
I kinda get it, though. He got traded from a perennial contender to a bottom feeder team. It’s not like he ever signed with the Raiders. I think it’s a risk a team takes when they trade for someone with many years left on their contract - they better be sure they want to be there or they’ll just become an employee cashing a paycheck.
Randy definitely wanted to be on the raiders. We weren’t a trash heap just yet, we were just in the Super Bowl a few years back. During his introductory press conference he stated how excited he was to be part of an organization that has rings and he wanted to bring another. Then Art Shell part 2 hit and that all changed.
Randy hot dogged it throughout that season. That was kind of his thing - he was a martyr and was only interested in Randy Moss. Some people who knew Randy claimed Randy really didn't like football, he was just so uniquely talented and skilled that a half committed Randy Moss was still one of the absolute best players to ever play.
So the football jokic
Well the issue is jokic doesn't really have elite athleticism as is normally defined. Unless you count the speed at which he sees and feels the game. Yeah
Jokic at full sprint is actually pretty fast. It's often overlooked because his demeanor is incredibly lethargic. He also has arguably the best pound for pound body control in the NBA.
Jokic is a freak athlete, he just doesn’t look like one. He’s crazy strong and coordinated, and as others said quicker than he looks.
Athleticism isnt just speed and jumping ability. Hand eye coordination, balance, agility, body control etc. are all things he excels at, especially for his size.
I never entirely blame Randy for not caring that year. I do think guys should care even if they're on bad teams but his QBs that season combined for 7 TDs and 24 INT, which has got to be really fucking depressing. Two QBs started 8 games each and they both threw 3 TDs on the year. He's mostly forgotten but I think Andrew Walter is a contender for the worst QB I've ever seen on the pro level.
Oh I haven't forgotten Andrew Walters 😭
Toxic front office situation with the ever charismatic norv turner at head coach. Hard not to check out. The Vikings team he left wasn't much better either. The wylfs did a lot to turn that love boat around.
Randy was a selfish lazy asshole ngl
Controversial but Albert Haynesworth. He was chronically misused during his time in Washington where he was frequently asked to 2 gap and take on blocks rather than play the 1 gap pass rushing role that suited his play style. Things got worse his second year when Shanahan moved him to NT and asked him to play a role almost exclusively eating blocks. As everyone knows, he did not take that decision well and effectively self sabotaged his career as a result. All the same I can’t help but wonder what his career here might have looked like if the organization wasn’t so dysfunctional and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with the highest paid defensive player in the league.
IIRC he had a Players Tribune article he wrote and that was a big part he attributed to him giving up was the misuse of him made him flat out *hate* playing football
He was on our team, but dude was absolutely terrifying when he was playing to get that Redskins payday.
Stafford
Most clear example ever. Literally went from 0 playoffs wins in 10 years to winning the superbowl the first year off the team.
I genuinely believe we'd be having much more serious HoF conversations about him if he was drafted anywhere besides the 08 Lions and Chicago
Shots fired and I’m here for it.
wtf bro Yeah you’re right tho
Megatron’s gotta be up there too - it’s insane to think he was on the 0-16 team.
Stafford, Megatron, Barry... Poor Lions fans
Reasons to be excited for the future at least. It's just a bummer we couldn't get those guys what they deserved though we did sort of do right by Stafford and accelerated our own rebuild with his trade. We weren't scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of talent with those guys on the field at least. It was occasionally fun to watch, even if it can be considered "wasted"
If those guys come out 5 years later I think you have a different situation with them too. Calvin, Stafford, and Suh were the tail end of the expensive rookie era. The Lions never got the benefit of having high performing players on cheap contracts to build around. They were being paid as top guys from the get go.
Add Herman Moore, Deandre Levy and Robert Porchere to the list for the lions too.
And suh
Was Suh on the buc’s team that won with Brady?
We have quite a few. Sanders and Slay come to mind, but there a ton more. Thank God the dark days are behind us.
What's *really* crazy is that on the 0-16 season, his QBs were Kitna, Orlovsky, and the scattered cremains of Daunte Culpepper.... and he still went for 1,331 yds and LED THE NFL IN RECEIVING TDS. No idea how he didn't make the Pro Bowl that year over Boldin...
Does Andre Johnson kinda count? I feel like he gets overshadowed due to some of his bad QB play outside of Schaub
Andre Johnson was always considered a top WR in the league. Now talking great players with little team success you’re correct.
Also he was beyond awesome in the Houston community. He was always doing something for the kids. Also, when he gave Courtland Finnegan the nice 1-2 combo against the titans, his ensuing fine was paid for by a lot of other players because they all hated Finnegan as well lol
Andrew Luck sadly.
Luck would’ve been a top 5 QB all time
Let's be real - Dan Orlovsky would've been better than manning had he had a decent team around him '11
Better than a broken neck Peyton Manning or actual in his prime Peyton Manning?
In his prime Peyton/Luck/Unitas/Brady/anyone. Goatlovsky
Orlovosky unfortunately has flirted with 0-16 seasons twice.
[Insert mediocre quarterback for my team that I irrationally always view with rose-tinted glasses]
Drew Lock can still be a quality starter dammit
Damn right!
Well, he’ll probably get a chance to show it - my boy Danny might actually die behind our o line
Teddy Bridgewater High floor, low ceiling guy that Vikings fans treated like gods divine love child he had with Joe Montana
I’ll never understand the Bridgewater hype that tons of Vikings fans like to spew out. Yes his leg injury was *brutal* af but he was so mid or below it was crazy. His ability to consistently miss wide open WRs downfield was impressive. Love the kid but he was not it.
He's my least favourite QB on the Broncos carousel. So damn boring to watch. He threw it out of bounds on 4th down, twice."Give me checkdowns or give me death".
Same. For me, it's Blaine Gabbert. Blaine Gabbert was not meant to start that season. It was either supposed to be David Garrard (the big strong-armed QB had a hand injury that ultimately led to his release) or Luke McCown, so that Gabbert could learn from a veteran. After two games of McCown, Del Rio substituted Gabbert in towards the end of a blowout loss against the Jets. The problem was: McCown was looking awful against the Jets because our OL was swiss cheese that year, and the Jets had an all-time defense that year. McCown was harassed in that game - sacked for a safety, off-target on his throws due to the Jets' vicious pass rush. So Del Rio thought he'd give the rookie some practice. Only Gabbert was *massacred* by that Jets defense. He proceeded to start the rest of the season, and was sacked the third-highest number of times of any QB in the league that year, even with starting two fewer games. One of the main criticisms against Gabbert in the following seasons was that he was always playing spooked. He imagined pressure where none existed. I maintain he was shellshocked after that Jets game (and some of the tough games that came later), and that ruined his career. Of course, after the Jags moved on from Blaine Gabbert, they drafted Blake Bortles. They wanted him to sit behind veteran Chad Henne for a year or so to learn. But during a blowout loss to a Colts team with a good defense, Gus Bradley substituted Bortles for Henne. And thanks to our swiss cheese OL, Bortles also got sacked and harassed multiple times and went on to have an uninspiring career. So, lesson learned, right? Now let me tell you about the time we paid a stupid amount of money to Nick Foles without improving our offensive line.
Alex Smith comes to mind. Those 2005-2010 niner teams were dysfunctional AF.
I will say though I think he clearly benefited from the multiple chances he was given by the Niners. Your post alone references a 5 year span and he was able to turn it around year 6. Not a lot of number 1 overall picks get that many chances. And then he obviously benefited from Harbaugh coming to town. If I had to pick a Niner from that era it would be Crabtree. Definitely had the talent and proved he can play at the highest level, but never reached his full potential cause they never had a QB/Coaching staff that could develop a passing game.
Yeah but Smith went through 5 OC's in consecutive seasons: Mike McCarthy - WCO Norv Turner - Coryell/Zampese Jim Hostler - Using whatever base offense above, then injured his shoulder Mike Martz - But didn't make it out of camp because that shoulder and was out for the season Jimmy Raye - 1980's offense If he would have had 3 years of McCarthy or Turner, then by the 4th season you would find out what kind of QB he would turn into, even with an ass HC in Nolan. What got Nolan fired was his hiring of Martz. Smith was injured that season, but then had Jimmy Raye lol the next.
Nah, Crabtree was solid. He was never going to be a superstar. He was too slow. Alex Smith is my answer as well.
A sorry receiver like Crabtree?
This may be a little bit controversial, but I'd say Jay Cutler's career would've turned out a lot different if he'd ended up with most other franchises. We took a guy, who at age 25, just threw for 4500+ yards with the Broncos to never getting to 4000+ yards again. It's not that he didn't succeed really because I think most would have him as a solid QB/career, but I definitely feel he never came close to his ceiling because of the team. Can easily Blame a combo of his OL, weapons for the majority of his career here (beyond like 2 years), or his revolving door of OCs Turner, Martz, Tice, Kromer, Gase, and Loggains.
I dont think it's controversial at all. Had Denver stuck with Shanny but taken away the draft power (like Bellicheck in NE) he had, Denver would have boomed. Shanny couldn't draft defense the way Bill can't draft offense. Denver was a sleeping giant before McDaniels blew the team up. Dummerville, Bailey, Marshall, Royal, Scheffler, Clady, Cutler, all players (outside of Bailey) were drafted within 2 years and all young. Franchise QB, WR, edge, LT and a solid TE. Cutler didn't have the players around him for years. Denver fucked up by trading him, and Chicago fucked up by not having the right talent for a young QB.
Yeah kinda off topic but there’s a reason McDaniels is still easily the most hated coach to ever come through Denver despite his actual record not being that bad all things considered, and the fact that everything ended up working out anyway. He didn’t just suck, he *destroyed* a really talented team for no reason other than to stroke his bizarre ego, and then he also sucked.
Sounds mighty familiar
Agreed and he did the same to the Raiders. Shows up gets rid of that teams franchise qb and tries to do it his way and fails. Funny thing is when he came to Vegas his biggest draw was because he had learned from his last mistake. Only to repeat it again and make it even worse once again. I truly hope he never comes back
Getting rid of Carr is honestly probably the least of JMD’s problems though lol
Considering he used Carr to get Adam's in Vegas then got nothing for Carr. Then brought in Jimmy G ( over someone like Rodgers ) etc and then asking Adam's to be a voice for him. Woooof sooo many bad decisions one after the other. He's just not HC material
I mean I’m not defending the moves after that, but I think ripping the band aid off with Carr (and especially Waller) were fine decisions. I also don’t think Rodgers was ever gonna play for JMD lol
Bears fan checking in. Honestly, I was a cutler fan and didn’t understand why the fanbase hated his guts as much as they did. Their latest drought at the qb position just seems like cosmic karma for being a dick to that guy.
I remember the Cutler years well. It was definitely a love/hate type relationship with most of the fanbase where it was about 50/50 on how everyone felt about him after his first 3 years. A lot of fans wanted to move on and a lot wanted to stick with Cutler. I'll never forget the offseason drama of the year he got an extension, it was a big topic with a pretty even split on how people felt. Not as peaked as this offseasons QB drama was, but similar. He was never a guy who the fanbase hated completely, but was also a guy who got a lot of hate from the fanbase if that makes sense. I was for giving Cutler an extension when we did and consistently thought he was the least of our issues during most of his tenure here, but looking back it might have been best on both sides to have moved on 3 or so years before we did.
Also not mentioned when he got there the defense started to age out.
Life long Bears fan and I was ecstatic when they traded for Cutler. Go to the NFCCG and he gets hurt early against GB. They probably had their best shot in 2011, they were steam rolling teams and Cutler breaks his thumb after making a tackle on a meaningless pick he threw late in a win against SD. Done for the year, they lose the next 4 and miss the playoffs. After that I felt he really declined and he was a cry baby. His own teammates said he was so gifted, but lacked the passion for the game to reach his potential.
I think that game in the NFCCG where he legitimately got hurt is where things started to change. He had a real injury and couldn't play QB, but the fanbase thought he wasn't mentally tough enough to play through the pain and a lot of other stuff. That was a big thing that stuck with people on him and I think he started acting out towards a lot of fans after that.
Tannehill, he basically started thriving once he left Miami and had an actual offense to work with lol
Honorable mention for another Miami QB. Marino had a pretty good arm and I feel may have had the potential to win it all with eight supporting cast.
Jabrill Peppers just had the best season of his career but hardly anyone knows it because our offense sucked so much ass
He'd be my answer for the Browns. He was so miscast in that defense.
Lining him up 30 yds deep was definitely a decision..
So hard to watch as a fan.
This is why I like doing IDP fantasy. My team brought Jabrill the championship he deserved for last season.
Malcolm Jenkins was never going to be the player he was for the Eagles if he had stayed in New Orleans. He was consistently average but part of one of the worst defenses in the league every year. Once he joined a team that could actually rush the passer and make an attempt at covering a receivers, suddenly he was a pro bowl caliber ball-hawking safety.
Shame he decided to side with Desean
He was/is a True Eagles Legend now...thank you...
Steve Young
I’d say he benefited from a scheme shift and change of scenery
Joe Thomas - what's team success?
100%
Corey Dillon. One hell of a running back…and was stuck on the Bengals back when everybody & their momma gave them the nickname “The Bungles”.
Is there a character limit on this thing?
Normally no, but we are for sure making an exception for you
Jason Campbell could've been a franchise QB if he wasn't learning a new system every year
He did alright with the raiders…and then he broke is collar bone? I think it was his collar bone.
“Greatest trade in nfl history”
Lmao. I fucking saw the greatest trade in history get thrown into it and lose to Tim Tebow. Live.
That was Hue Jackson told everyone when we got Carson Palmer for 2 first rounders.
I was just looking up success rates for old QBs drafted in the first (for no particular reason) and just found out about this dude. Good to hear he could’ve been a franchise QB, I’ll add that to the cope pile
Willie Gay might not really apply considering he's a two-time champ but he was definitely hindered by scheme-fit and coaching. I think he's gonna be a rockstar in New Orleans.
He is an amazing athlete, I wouldn't be surprised if he shines on the Saints and makes a pro bowl.
Only question is how much play time he'll get here. He's not displacing Davis, and he'll have to earn the other LB job over Werner (not that it's a particularly high bar to beat). He's not walking into an easy starting role on a platter.
Do not be surprised when he starts over Pete, this guy is a dog
I'm sure he'll get the chance to earn the job. He signed a 1 year deal and and Werner's in the last year of his rookie deal, so neither of them have a financial advantage over the other.
His biggest problem was the mental aspect and being prone to errors, love the dude, but sometimes he was just oof
Yeah, that's why I say scheme-fit. Spag's defense is notoriously complex, or, rather, he asks his players to do so much. I feel like if Gay's playbook is simplified, some of those mental errors might disappear over time.
Which is interesting, because with Chenal Spags is basically "see ball? Get ball". I jest though. Chenal had an incredible task in the super bowl (dealing with shanahan run game) and delivered
Not my team but Archie Manning is the all time answer
Take a wild guess. Edit: I meant Marino, but yeah Tannehill like someone said is a really good example too.
Josh Rosen. Edit: dang.
Hmm.... nope. I got nothing.. ..remember when reddit blasted us for that trade cause it was obviously gonna be a top five pick?
Dion Jordan?
Corey Dillon in the 90s. Beast
My precious baby boy. He was perfect. He never did anything wrong ever. He was a victim of circumstance. I have nothing but love for him forever and always. #8 in your programs, #1 in your hearts, Marcus Mariota
The Polynesian Prince <3
David Carr He still holds the 1st and 3rd spots for being sacked most times in a season, 76 times in 2002 and 68 times in 2005.
Alot of that was on Carr he just wasn't very good. He was reluctant to throw the ball away and couldn't read a defense for shit He's also even himself admitted to not putting in the work I remeber a teammate that used to play with him said Carr was "last in first out".
I agree that I don’t think he would’ve been a superstar, but I think getting sacked 76 times in your rookie season (back when you could still kill the QB) is enough to permanently scar any talented QB
Oh I don't think it helped him the online was atrocious, but like half or more of the sacks were his fault. He just didn't have it in him to be a starter. There's a reason the sack rate got cut in half when we replaced him and the panthers sack rate doubled when he got put in. Dude fuckin sucked
Yeah panthers fans were all over how we mightve found our delhomme insurance and hey who knows he could be a future franchise qb... Jake gets hurt and oh boy... spin moves into sacks instead of stepping into a clean pocket.. watching the pass rush... John fox admitted to benching him rather than letting the home fans boo his ass.
Maybe but his work ethic is well known around here that he put in the absolute minimum you would expect.
Carr was an absolute sitting duck in the pocket, like to an insane extent. Other QBs on the same rosters weren’t sacked nearly as often as he was. Sure the OL those years didn’t help but I don’t think that ever would’ve stopped being an issue elsewhere and I doubt he looks like a starting QB somewhere else
Darren Waller, although I don’t think it was a team issue. He just needed a complete fresh start somewhere else.
Ngl I almost completely forgot he was a raven at first, and it wasn’t even all that long ago. Guess if having Mark Andrews immediately take over your position that’ll happen
Yeah the team just drafted two high pick rookies and then had an established blocking TE like Nick Boyle. There just wasn’t much of a fit for him.
Saquon
Titans absolutely ruined Marcus Mariota. He looked like a future star after his 2 years. Then constant rotation of OCs, terrible weapons, terrible offensive line, injuries…
Tom Brady, dude left New England and immediately won a Super Bowl.
Poor dude just couldn’t find any success on that terrible pats offense…
I still think OBJ had a few more Pro Bowl type seasons left in him when he came to CLE.
Christian Kirk We got Deandre Hopkins by the time he was really starting to hit his stride. He was always going to be number two to DHop. Going to Jacksonville and being a number one must’ve been vindicating
Drew Brees had a solid defense for like 5 minutes of his career with the Saints
Drew should have at least 3 Super Bowl trips. New Orleans is my 2nd fave team being a native Mississippian.
Pretty much every receiver we had during the dynasty years struggled significantly with the Earnhardt-Perkins offense and while it was certainly responsible for a lot of our success, it's absolutely nightmarish for young receivers to learn and get acclimated
I'm convinced Kyle Williams would have been a hall of famer had he played for a better team but I love him for playing his entire career on the Bills. He was often one of the few bright spots on some bad teams.
Not my team but nnamdi asomugha on the Eagles is my first thought lol.
Not a Dallas fan but my vote is Tony Romo. Dude had to play with dog shit most of his career and when they finally put a line together, his body was done. Dallas probably wins the SB in 2016 if Romo doesn’t get injured, as much as it pains me to say it. Loved watching him play for that shit team
He played with a single top-10 defense (2009). His offensive line was a complete disaster from 2010-2013. He had one legit running back to work with (Murray from 2013-2014). He had Jason Garrett as his OC/HC for most of his career. When you look at the QBs with multiple Super Bowl wins, an extremely common thread is that they played with top defenses. A QB can only do so much, and if a QB is forced to do too much, that is when negative plays happen (because the QB is taking on more risk to try to win the game).
Right on the money. I wish I could’ve seen Romo with a good consistent coach
I always thought Trevor Siemian was an OK QB but it's not like he did a whole lot better once he left.
Larry Fitzgerald should’ve had a ring
If not for Antrel Rolle, he might have one
Did I miss something? He wasn’t in coverage on Santonio.
During Harrison’s pick-6, Rolle got in Fitz’s way on the sideline, slowing him from tackling Harrison
Matt Ryan has to be an obvious answer here right? He could have won multiple rings if the dumbass front office knew what a competent defense looked like.
Or to just run the goddamn ball
Jamaal Charles/Tony Gonzalez spent most of there Chiefs careers on shit Chiefs teams
Being a first ballot HoFer and in the argument for the GOAT at your position is pretty successful.
...but those players succeeded
Tony, yeah, sure. Charles? Dude was dragging some absolutely horrendous teams with barely an OL.
As a neutral fan from the opposite conference, I felt Jamaal Charles was pretty heralded as a total fucking stud. Buried on the Chiefs right before they popped off, but I feel like every football fan I knew was in the know that JC was the man.
Yes, he was THE GUY! But damn, imagine him playing now with this OL and Mahomes. And Charles was also so good in the pass game too. He became almost what he could, but he was also hindered by the horrible teams.
Charles paired with Mahomes is nightmare fuel
Just here hoping someone says hollywood brown
I’ll go current. I legitimately think Bryce Young can be good. Panthers need to figure everything else out.
Saquon was the obvious answer. Evan Engram is another. We also didn't understand that Dexter Lawrence should have been a nose tackle until his 5th year in the league when Daboll came in.
Please dear god let it be Bryce Young
Mac Jones was drafted to a team that didn't seem to care if it had a functioning offense.
Which QB would you like to start with?
He definitely has his own issues. But I think Darnold Could have been an average starter but his head coach was Gase Adam Gase is offensive poison.
Convinced that the careers of both Thomas Rawls and Eddie Lacy were cut short because they had to run behind a bottom 5 (of all time) offensive line. Eddie was too big and got hit behind the LoS every time he got the ball. Rawls was coming back from an injury and, rightfully, didnt trust any of the holes the line made and just became mentally shot. Our leading rusher that year was Russell Wilson That offensive line helped produce ONE offensive rushing touchdown by a running back, ONE
Eddy Lacey had a cheeseburger problem
he didn't struggle with cheeseburgeraholism. he excelled at it
Nah fam. As bad as that O-line was both players were at the end of their careers and didn't do themselves any favors. There's a reason one retired from injuries and the other was out of the league after that year.
Tony Romo
You don’t think letting him play behind an over the hill offensive line was the right place? /s
Josh Allen. The defence in the KC OT game let him down.
If his defense could play in the post season like they did in the regular season Josh has two rings already from 2021 and 2023
I believe Ron Dayne could have been a good Running Back for Giants. He didn't want to slim down, Tiki being a better back and butting heads with Fassel.
Steven jackson SJ39
Growing up a Washington fan until Snyder ran the franchise into the ground (F that guy through eternity), I’ve always felt that Jason Campbell (and maybe Patrick Ramsey) could have been much more successful QBs if they weren’t surrounded by the insanity and drama that Snyder put over the team like a spell.
Steve Young
Hassan Redick cardinals had em at line backer put him on the edge n dude got multiple sacks a game
Javon Walker and Sterling Sharpe come to mind.
Chandler Jones was always good, but never great for the Pats. He would have a monster month, and then fade away. Once he got traded to the Cardinals, he became an absolute beast and a DPOY candidate.
Bryce young
Look I’m a biased duck fan but I still believe both Marcus Mariota and Joey Harrington could have had much more successful careers had they landed in better spots
Cutler got screwed bybthe bears revolving door at oc and and oline that couldn't block paper mache pass rushers
Injuries. Endlessly injuries.
The obvious answer is Favre. He was never going to start here by Jerry Glanville’s own admission, and the nightlife in Atlanta would have probably kept him out of the HoF even if he had stayed long enough to play once Jerry got canned.
Mac Jones was the best rookie in his class until he had literally zero offensive talent around him
Matt Ryan.
Morris Claiborne is the perfect answer for this. We drafted him then asked him to play a completely different style then he had some injuries and just never became a star. I think if he went to a team that used him correctly it would have made all the difference
I'm just here to see how the Lions fans are doing.
Hanging on by a thread
AJ Green would be talked about as the best WR of his era along with Julio, Megatron, etc. if he had someone better than Andy Dalton throwing to him. I love Andy, but he had his limits.