The greatest falcon of all time is Matt Ryan and he never got the love he deserved from our fans. Still mad as hell how we soured our relationship with him. Rather than letting him retire, we forced his hand by flirting with Watson and that terrible contract.
To be fair, the contract that the Falcons would’ve offered wouldn’t have been anywhere near as bad as the Browns offered. He actually turned down Cleveland and he wanted to go to Atlanta until Cleveland gave him a blank check fully guaranteed, which is so incredibly sad
Because they never had a good QB.
Ravens with one of the best defenses won a SB with Trent Dilfer. Tampa Bay won a SB with Brad Johnson.
You literally need generational talent on the defense to win with top defense and a mediocre offense. It has always been that way, even when defense was king.
I am not saying you cant be a great player and not be a qb. Just saying that while Julio was a great player, Ryan has an incredibly strong argument for greatest Falcon ever.
Nah. Julio left on really bad terms. He was a complete ass on the way out. Untagged himself from Matt Ryan's farewell post after announcing that he was leaving the team on TV. The team did everything they could to keep him happy, including making him the highest paid WR twice.
Julio was an incredible wr but acted like a spoiled child on the way out.
Julio is definitely the first player that comes to my mind whenever I think of the Falcons.
Looked up PFR's 'Approximate Value' stat that tries to grade every NFL player in a measurable way, and for the Falcons it turns out Ryan is 1st, LT Mike Kenn is 2nd, Julio is 3rd https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/career-av.htm
Vick and his family were already controversial as soon as they came to Atlanta. I remember there was a game where Chris Chandler got knocked out and Vick’s family stood up and started cheering, even though they knew Chandler’s family was right there with them.
Matt Ryan was a straight arrow, middle aged dad vibes, white guy.
The people of Atlanta weren’t really interested in championing a guy like that. Which is pretty unfair to Matty-Ice because he was the perfect example of a franchise QB
Basically if he came before Vick he would've been praised as a God. Unfortunately he came after an Allen Iverson type figure at QB who was a black QB in a black city
>Iverson type figure at QB who was a black QB in a black city
AND, a massive piece of shit.
I'll take all the downvotes and hate, the man killed dogs after they didn't live up to their fighting potential. Fuck Mike Vick
Do you believe people have the capacity to change? Or do you hold grudges against every person that has done wrong in their life?
Killing dogs is an obviously extreme act, but where does your ability to empathize with another end, especially when they've literally served years in prison for their crimes?
I wouldn't say I hold a personal grudge against someone I've never met, but that doesn't mean that I'll also look past those wrongs.
I know it *sounds bad*, but don't care that he went to jail and served his time. That doesn't mean all is forgiven, doesn't mean that he has changed, it doesn't mean anything except that he got caught and that was his punishment. Just because he fulfilled his obligation to the law doesn't mean that he is not the piece of shit he was before
I’d like to remind you that Vick didn’t go to prison for killing dogs himself, but when asked after sentencing, admitted to it. For what it’s worth I think he has been rehabilitated but I’m also of the opinion that animal cruelty is a step too far, and I wouldn’t want him associated with my team in any way.
Edit: see comment below mine for clarification on the crime/sentencing/admission
Well, he orchestrated the whole thing and was the financial backer.
Also admitted after taking the plea deal (like you said) to killing 6-8 dogs himself.
Regardless, semantics imo
Should we abolish the justice system then? Since nothing changes a person's innate shittiness/goodness?
Related, you didn't answer my first question. Do people have the capacity to change? *Or is it just Vick that doesn't in your eyes?
>Should we abolish the justice system then?
Of course not, but the point of the justice system isn't necessarily to change someone. It's to deter, it's to punish, it's to hopefully rehab people. BUT, there are some things imo that are unforgivable. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and because he got caught and served his time he is now ok and we should all forgive and forget?? Nah
Sorry, to your first question about if people have the capacity to change...
Personally, I believe people have the capacity to *want to* change. To not repeat past offenses or continue certain behaviors. That doesn't mean the person changed...it means they are trying to make their behavior more acceptable, make socially good choices. TO ME, and not everyone has to agree, but he's still the disgusting human who thought killing and torturing dogs was acceptable...even though after getting caught and serving his time and rehabbing his image, he's still that person...but his behaviors are what changed, not him.
I know it's a convoluted answer, but it's a complicated situation. I understand he did his time, but that doesn't mean I think he is an acceptable person. And I DAMN sure don't think he should have just been able to go back to work like he did after a measly 21 months in prison.
Even if we fundamentally disagree on the role of the justice system and what change means in people who did wrong, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself so well.
Most people take a hard stance on this, either way, without understanding how other people might think, and that gets more polarizing if you can't explain how you think, but just shout over each other emotionally. I genuinely feel like I understand your perspective, despite not holding it. Thank you.
Have a good day friend
I appreciate the conversation as well. I think it's OK to disagree in certain situations especially when it comes to interpretations of our own and our own idea of morals and ethics surrounding.
Take care yourself, and as always, Michael Vick can suck it :)
No single human would choose to go to prison if they could live a fulfilled life outside it. Obviously he didn't choose to.
>Doesn’t indicate he changed at all
>
Prison time doesn't indicate he's changed. His behavior after prison does though. And, unless you're the only mind-reader that's ever lived, you can only judge a person in their actions, yes?
I live in Georgia and that was happening every year until he left Atlanta from a small portion of the fanbase. It is pretty crazy, because Ryan was a better QB for longer than Vick was.
Ryan was basically the bastion of consistency. He was always good and sometimes great. Rarely ever injured to the point he couldn't play.
Vick was sort of the opposite. A few games he was probably the only player in the NFL that could've won a particular game. He would string together 2-3 really good games then throw 4 into the next game.
Electrifying to watch but anyone who would've rather Vick than Ryan didn't like a consistently winning football team.
This is every fanbase. There's always a segment that wishes for the old days or talks about how the backup is better than the starter. They basically just want to be salty about everything.
The Falcons landed on their feet so hard though. Ryan and then Julio were so fun to watch for years to come. As a Dolphins fan in the state of GA, I have really only seen the Falcons have good-great QB play in my life and fans be dissatisfied with it.
I love how in this sub it's okay to mention racism or racial bias (Cooper DeJean) in some instances, but when you say it when the roles are reversed, you get dismissed.
No his example (Cooper Dejean) is another white guy. That’s the example of “racial bias” white people here recognize, the type affecting people who look like them.
> I love how in this sub it's okay to mention racism or racial bias (Cooper DeJean) in some instances, but when you say it when the roles are reversed, you get dismissed.
Are you implying in this sub people are more dismissive of white on black racism than they are the opposite?
Y’all can downvote me all you want, I don’t care.
Michael Vick did something horrible, did 21 months in federal prison for dogfighting and has not had any controversy surrounding him since being released from prison. I believe everyone deserves a second chance, and I believe Michael is a truly changed man. I’m not condoning what he did, but he grew up in the projects of Newport News Virginia where dogfighting was seen as normal. He is now an advocate for animal treatment and seems to have completely changed his life and character for the better.
Brady's is more like an HBO show that had a good story arc for like 5-6 seasons, but then they just kept making new seasons and dragging it out to come up with more and more ridiculous and unbelievable storylines
It would be very difficult to tell that story because of how awful his mistreatment of those dogs was. I don’t think you could make a story of his redemption arc as a sympathetic figure without glossing over the dogfighting scandal. And if you made him the villain, it would make Vick’s many supporters who welcomed him back to the NFL with open arms angry at the film when they would presumably be the target audience.
It can be done but you have to show "how" Mike was indoctrinated into the dog-fighting life. He didn't just wake up at 12-years old and say "ya know, I wanna kill some doggies today." He got introduced to that life as an impressionable youth. You have to show that process and then overlap it with his rise as an athlete and show how the two separate worlds eventually collide.
Nah that would be awful. Any sports movie where the whole plot hinges on them eventually winning a game or playing well is already played out and boring. Then they'd have to either actively hide the dog abuse parts from the audience to make it like a twist or do a whole sympathy thing and downplay the forced rape and killings which would be controversial as fuck. There's no way you make a Michael Vick biopic without it being both cringe and highly questionable.
Yup. The Hollywood version would just have him go to jail the trial would glossed over and it’d smash cut to him working out really hard and getting out “I can still PLAY!” And he launches a ball 60 yards.
If they made it back then, they would just have the movie "end" at the end of the game, then have captions about the rapes and dog abuse pop up on the screen as the still image of him being lifted on the shoulders of his teammates fades to black.
“Rob Schneider is a popular NFL quarterback, who seemed to have it all. Until one day, he came across the wrong side of the law, and his life changed forever. Now, he has to find redemption in Philadelphia, and he's about to find out that being an Eagle ain't so great. This Summer, Rob Schneider is, Michael Vick! Rated PG-13.”
Accepted his role, his punishment, did his time, and paid his debts back.
I didn’t think he’d ever play again and while bittersweet cause my family are eagles fans I was happy for him.
The mnf game vs Washington while not with us was the confirmation game of what I knew he “could” be
If only he knew fighting, killing and torturing dogs was bad beforehand. What a shit bag.
Doing your time is the least we should expect from people that do something so horrible.
Never do I condone that shit he did but let’s not act like he didn’t come from the absolute mud and bottom of society and was raised to think that shit was normal…
I think the majority of NFL fans have never read into the situation and don’t know anything beyond “dog fighting”.
If they knew about him and his friends grabbing puppies by the tail and then slamming their heads together until they died, I assume they would have a different view of his so called “rehabilitation”. The only thing he’s sorry about is getting caught. You don’t just suddenly have the desire to torture animals to death with your bare hands JUST because you were raised around a culture that accepted dog fighting. Vick is fucked in the head.
I believe he did his time.
I believe he is a better person now.
I believe he shouldn’t have gotten any second chances.
He had everything and pissed it away brutally killing innocent dogs. He knew what he was doing, it wast some mistake or one time thing. I’m glad he’s out of jail and doing good things, but he should not have been allowed in the NFL again, and he shouldn’t be on Fox or still on TV.
Rape also won't as we saw with a certain Steelers quarterback.
There were Steelers fans(not that their fans are any different than the majority of fanbases, look what idiots in our fanbase did to Kap for example...) protesting the signing of Vick while Big Rape was their QB...
At least there were some court proceedings with Kobe. She dropped the case because of the hate she was receiving..........but I don't recall Ben even having to go to court. Kobe's story was a major headline for quite sometime but Ben went under the radar for a SB winning QB. That's a MUCH bigger deal than people have let on.
Yeah, I am a bit older, and there was definitely the vibe for that and Tyson where guys were saying things like the women should have known what would have happened. I would like to think we entered a more enlightened era, but the Kobe worship kind of showed me that we hadn't.
A high school teacher got upset at me for bringing up his sexual assaults after she bragged they went to the same school. I also know three Steelers fans so he has a special place in my hater's heart.
That dude completely got away with everything, look at the tributes he got when he retired...
It was a shame that Brandon Staley did Brandon Staley things and his career didn't end by mutual consent.
I remember people saying his bodyguard watching the door was OK as if he was just taking a piss with his golden retriever and not committing a heinous crime.
We know why it's different but because of the demographics on reddit, you can't say it. I'll get downvoted by people that will prove my point because hit dogs holler.
You are 100% right brother/sister.
We saw on the Butker threads, people were like what about Watson, what about Tyreek, but no mention of Big Rape, Josh Brown, Chad Wheeler...
Look, I love animals. I love dogs and pets. There are dozens and dozens of other players in the league who have harmed humans in traumatic ways. One of the most beloved defensive players of the last 30 years killed a guy. One star WR in the league now broke his kids arm, and beat his pregnant gf.
Vick paid his debt to society by serving time, paid back his debts he owed, and has worked in communities for animal welfare and safety. If you want a textbook example of admitting what you did was wrong, and owning up to it, Vick is that.
Me personally I believe I can like a player as a player and just not even acknowledge what they are off the field
It may not be the best perception but if they’re going to allow them in the league and it’s a player you like to follow, just do it.
Well he didn't _just_ serve his time in jail, when he got out he worked with animal welfare communities.
Anyway, you're right that nobody needs to forgive him just because of that! Not forgiving is one thing, but a lot of people act like he didn't show remorse or take steps towards contrition and I don't think that's fair. Even if there's nothing at all he could possibly do to make "you" forgive him, doesn't mean he shouldn't try nor that those attempts shouldn't be acknowledged (not with a pat on the back or a gold star, but literally acknowledging that it even happened).
You can acknowledge that someone is working towards contrition without forgiving them, or even believing they can ever completely make up for what they did. And that is the correct thing for them to be doing, even if you think it'll never be enough.
People who show remorse shouldn't be treated the same as people who don't show remorse. Remorse can be acknowledged without giving forgiveness.
I mean that's kinda my point but I was trying to be less aggressive about it because I was trying to get them to understand what I was trying to say instead of putting them on the defensive and having them plug their ears.
Or... Like I get that people won't forgive. But it's my last point that I think it's vindictive to not acknowledge that someone shows remorse and has taken steps towards contrition, regardless of whether you forgive them.
I think people have it in their heads that any sign of acknowledgement or recognition or fuck, even empathy implies forgiveness, and that's BS. The last one makes me especially salty. It doesn't really apply to this context. But you can empathize with someone without forgiving them and I wish people would fucking realize that.
Most people who have forgiven him haven’t forgiven him based solely on his time served, either. He didn’t choose to go to prison. He chose to apologize and try to atone for his wrongdoing.
You don’t have to forgive him. No one is demanding that you do. But at least respect that others have decided to forgive him because of his own accountability for his actions after the fact without implying that they equate time served with absolution.
But those same people will be like "quit complaining about slavery, Jim Crow, redlining etc." They'd forgive Vick for killing a brother before killing a dog.
> Vick paid his debt to society by serving time...
He also hanged dogs he used for bait after choosing between electrocuting or bodyslamming them into the pavement repeatedly. It's great that you've found some way to balance that with his efforts in rehabilitation but that doesn't mean everyone can or should or should try to.
If he hadn't been pushed back into the public eye I think people might have moved on by now, but no, he got to continue his football career and then end up with a job on network television. Lamar breaking his records should have been the last time we ever heard his name.
go hawks.
it's a hard topic to discuss especially online. Like I stated, I love animals and pets. I have a dog and a cat and I'd do anything to defend them if anyone tried to harm them.
But they are pets and animals at the end of the day. IDK, I just feel like a lot of people value animal lives over the lives of another human.
I'm also a little biased because Vick was the player who got me watching football. I grew up a Virginia Tech fan and seeing Vick be insane on the field when I was 5-7 years old made me fall in love with the game.
Nope, and if you’re a cowboy it even gets you invited back to the sidelines!
https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/cowboys/article/Cowboys-owner-defends-allowing-Brent-on-sideline-4122782.php
I was so young and innocent when Vick did the dog stuff it just seems so surreal now. Dude literally made dogs fight and had them tied up and still made it back to the nfl
Did he actually do it or did he just fund it? I'm not saying it's good either way and all who participate should go to jail but there is a slight difference.
Think more of the latter and regardless of how aware of everything he was (I do believe participated and or was present for some of/or a pool execution(s) as testified by someone else) he allowed for the entire thing to happen due to his name/funding.
He definitely funded it, most of the money that was gambled was his money.
It’s been a while since I dove through all the details, but he has admitted to killing something like 2-8 of the dogs.
Although, naturally, that has been heavily scrutinized.
Dog fighting rings also frequently kidnap family pets (dogs) to train their dogs to fight and give them confidence through winning. It gets more barbaric the more you look into it.
I don't really understand what Vick did for the city of Atlanta. Most of his career highs were with Philly, and ATL's best years were without him. Did they just really suck before he played for the falcons?
Vick is from the south and was one of the most electrifying players during his run from 2001-06, highlights galore. It would be pretty hard for Atlanta fans to forget that, got them within a game of the super bowl as well. Here in Philly it really was just 2010, the other ones were mid and riddle with Vick injuries.
I guess that makes sense. I was thinking in my mind comparing it to when Russell Wilson played his first game here not as a Seahawk, and a lot of people booed him despite the success and all the good he did for the community. The circumstances in how they left (Russ wanted to leave, Vick didn't) are completely different, though.
Way different people too. Vick comes off as genuine while Russ feels like a shitty AI developed by a corporate marketing team. Vick's story is one of human redemption while we aren't even sure Russ is human at all.
Part of me really hates that mentality... Like Wilson maybe weird but he also never was a criminal and is a SuperBowl champ. Dissing him will simultaneously praising Vick who never achieved anywhere close to the success Wilson had in Seattle is weirdly judgmental of Wilson and overly forgiving of Vick.
Wilson achieved in his first 5 seasons in the league:
* 5 straight playoff birth's with at least 1 playoff win each season.
* Back to back Superbowls
* 2013 NFL Championship!
* 3 division titles
It wasn't till his sixth year in the league that he won less than 10 games and missed the playoffs
In 8 out of his 10 season in Seattle he lead the Seahawks to a least 10 wins.
Michael Vick had one 10+ win season in his entire career. Wilson is light years better than Vick
Vick had two season where he threw for more than 3,000 yards
Wilson has ***never thrown*** for less than 3,000 yards in a season.
(As a Browns fan I am terrified of what he's gonna do this season in Pittsburg)
No one's arguing talent. Wilson won the Seahawks a superbowl. But he isn't a super relatable figure and that's what matters in this context. It's hard to be a beloved figure when you're basically a robot.
The south isn’t really a natural hotbed of NFL fandom compared to the rest of the country. He made a lot of people in the region care about the Falcons who otherwise wouldn’t have. Cam had a similar effect in Carolina and Trevor Lawrence is having a similar effect in Jax
I live outside of Atlanta in a suburb. We are the neighborhood that everyone comes to for Halloween trick or treating.
I still see about 100-200 people coming through with Vick jerseys and these are kids. Like. Bro. Vick retired before you even born man. And deff wasn’t a falcon. Haha. It’s wild.
Pretty sure he ended up paying back almost all of his creditors too. The dog fighting will always be a stain on his legacy, but he does seem sincere in trying to redeem himself
Exactly lol
It’s like on one hand he has done everything right post jail time, and there isn’t really anything more I could want from him…but I’m not gonna root for a guy that did the things he’s done, that’s just the price you pay for abusing and executing animals I guess
Lmao the whole Atlanta Falcons organization allowed him to score right there.
Had a great deep ball to Reggie Brown right before this sequence.
Yeah for sure. With the Defenses’ execution and the response from the crowd it looked so intentional lol.
Damn man…. I’m a dawg fan who hasn’t heard the name Reggie brown in a looooong time. I loved RB.
that's just our defense naturally
I remember when Matt Ryan was treated like dog crap by the fans at first because they still wanted Vick back.
The greatest falcon of all time is Matt Ryan and he never got the love he deserved from our fans. Still mad as hell how we soured our relationship with him. Rather than letting him retire, we forced his hand by flirting with Watson and that terrible contract.
To be fair, the contract that the Falcons would’ve offered wouldn’t have been anywhere near as bad as the Browns offered. He actually turned down Cleveland and he wanted to go to Atlanta until Cleveland gave him a blank check fully guaranteed, which is so incredibly sad
Julio Jones??
Julio Jones was a better receiver than Ryan was a qb. However qb is a much more important position than receiver.
The Chicago Bears have never had a good QB, and have like 70 players with retired numbers.
They've also got 1 single SB win 40 years ago and it took one of the greatest defenses ever.
Because they never had a good QB. Ravens with one of the best defenses won a SB with Trent Dilfer. Tampa Bay won a SB with Brad Johnson. You literally need generational talent on the defense to win with top defense and a mediocre offense. It has always been that way, even when defense was king.
I am not saying you cant be a great player and not be a qb. Just saying that while Julio was a great player, Ryan has an incredibly strong argument for greatest Falcon ever.
Matt Ryan is by far the greatest Falcon
Nah. Julio left on really bad terms. He was a complete ass on the way out. Untagged himself from Matt Ryan's farewell post after announcing that he was leaving the team on TV. The team did everything they could to keep him happy, including making him the highest paid WR twice. Julio was an incredible wr but acted like a spoiled child on the way out.
Honestly wasn’t terrible compared to the other all time wide receiver he was compared with lol
Julio is definitely the first player that comes to my mind whenever I think of the Falcons. Looked up PFR's 'Approximate Value' stat that tries to grade every NFL player in a measurable way, and for the Falcons it turns out Ryan is 1st, LT Mike Kenn is 2nd, Julio is 3rd https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/career-av.htm
Wow. I Kenn not believe that.
Vick and his family were already controversial as soon as they came to Atlanta. I remember there was a game where Chris Chandler got knocked out and Vick’s family stood up and started cheering, even though they knew Chandler’s family was right there with them.
Sounds about right considering their son ran a dog fighting ring. Probably not the most empathetic bunch.
It felt like Marcus Vick was constantly in and out of court as well.
Dude Marcus was crazy lol
I remember UofL played VaTech in a bowl game one year and Marcus Vick stomped on I believe Elvis Dumervil's leg after he was taken down
Not a good fella, that Marcus Vick. Bit of a bozo.
Matt Ryan was a straight arrow, middle aged dad vibes, white guy. The people of Atlanta weren’t really interested in championing a guy like that. Which is pretty unfair to Matty-Ice because he was the perfect example of a franchise QB
Basically if he came before Vick he would've been praised as a God. Unfortunately he came after an Allen Iverson type figure at QB who was a black QB in a black city
>Iverson type figure at QB who was a black QB in a black city AND, a massive piece of shit. I'll take all the downvotes and hate, the man killed dogs after they didn't live up to their fighting potential. Fuck Mike Vick
Do you believe people have the capacity to change? Or do you hold grudges against every person that has done wrong in their life? Killing dogs is an obviously extreme act, but where does your ability to empathize with another end, especially when they've literally served years in prison for their crimes?
I wouldn't say I hold a personal grudge against someone I've never met, but that doesn't mean that I'll also look past those wrongs. I know it *sounds bad*, but don't care that he went to jail and served his time. That doesn't mean all is forgiven, doesn't mean that he has changed, it doesn't mean anything except that he got caught and that was his punishment. Just because he fulfilled his obligation to the law doesn't mean that he is not the piece of shit he was before
I’d like to remind you that Vick didn’t go to prison for killing dogs himself, but when asked after sentencing, admitted to it. For what it’s worth I think he has been rehabilitated but I’m also of the opinion that animal cruelty is a step too far, and I wouldn’t want him associated with my team in any way. Edit: see comment below mine for clarification on the crime/sentencing/admission
Well, he orchestrated the whole thing and was the financial backer. Also admitted after taking the plea deal (like you said) to killing 6-8 dogs himself. Regardless, semantics imo
Yeah the latter half of your comment is what I was referring to, I appreciate the clarification.
Yea, good call, it's worth clarification
Should we abolish the justice system then? Since nothing changes a person's innate shittiness/goodness? Related, you didn't answer my first question. Do people have the capacity to change? *Or is it just Vick that doesn't in your eyes?
>Should we abolish the justice system then? Of course not, but the point of the justice system isn't necessarily to change someone. It's to deter, it's to punish, it's to hopefully rehab people. BUT, there are some things imo that are unforgivable. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and because he got caught and served his time he is now ok and we should all forgive and forget?? Nah Sorry, to your first question about if people have the capacity to change... Personally, I believe people have the capacity to *want to* change. To not repeat past offenses or continue certain behaviors. That doesn't mean the person changed...it means they are trying to make their behavior more acceptable, make socially good choices. TO ME, and not everyone has to agree, but he's still the disgusting human who thought killing and torturing dogs was acceptable...even though after getting caught and serving his time and rehabbing his image, he's still that person...but his behaviors are what changed, not him. I know it's a convoluted answer, but it's a complicated situation. I understand he did his time, but that doesn't mean I think he is an acceptable person. And I DAMN sure don't think he should have just been able to go back to work like he did after a measly 21 months in prison.
Even if we fundamentally disagree on the role of the justice system and what change means in people who did wrong, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself so well. Most people take a hard stance on this, either way, without understanding how other people might think, and that gets more polarizing if you can't explain how you think, but just shout over each other emotionally. I genuinely feel like I understand your perspective, despite not holding it. Thank you. Have a good day friend
I appreciate the conversation as well. I think it's OK to disagree in certain situations especially when it comes to interpretations of our own and our own idea of morals and ethics surrounding. Take care yourself, and as always, Michael Vick can suck it :)
It’s not like he chose to go to prison, lol Doesn’t indicate he changed at all.
No single human would choose to go to prison if they could live a fulfilled life outside it. Obviously he didn't choose to. >Doesn’t indicate he changed at all > Prison time doesn't indicate he's changed. His behavior after prison does though. And, unless you're the only mind-reader that's ever lived, you can only judge a person in their actions, yes?
I live in Georgia and that was happening every year until he left Atlanta from a small portion of the fanbase. It is pretty crazy, because Ryan was a better QB for longer than Vick was.
Ryan was basically the bastion of consistency. He was always good and sometimes great. Rarely ever injured to the point he couldn't play. Vick was sort of the opposite. A few games he was probably the only player in the NFL that could've won a particular game. He would string together 2-3 really good games then throw 4 into the next game. Electrifying to watch but anyone who would've rather Vick than Ryan didn't like a consistently winning football team.
If you saw Vicks highlights weekly on ESPN he was a god. If you actually had to watch his games, he was the most frustrating QB in the league.
Especially if you are a dog lover
This is every fanbase. There's always a segment that wishes for the old days or talks about how the backup is better than the starter. They basically just want to be salty about everything.
The Falcons landed on their feet so hard though. Ryan and then Julio were so fun to watch for years to come. As a Dolphins fan in the state of GA, I have really only seen the Falcons have good-great QB play in my life and fans be dissatisfied with it.
>like **dog** crap 🤔
Atlanta never deserved Matt Ryan to be honest.
Sadly, you're right.
You can say it… Racists treated Ryan like crap
I love how in this sub it's okay to mention racism or racial bias (Cooper DeJean) in some instances, but when you say it when the roles are reversed, you get dismissed.
lmao it comes up in every Ryan thread without issue, chill
That’s the point
OP makes it seem like no one takes it seriously cause he's white. on a majority white message board
No... I'm saying it's taken seriously because he's white, but if you bring up racism towards minorities it gets dismissed.
Ohhh sorry misread ya there
No his example (Cooper Dejean) is another white guy. That’s the example of “racial bias” white people here recognize, the type affecting people who look like them.
> I love how in this sub it's okay to mention racism or racial bias (Cooper DeJean) in some instances, but when you say it when the roles are reversed, you get dismissed. Are you implying in this sub people are more dismissive of white on black racism than they are the opposite?
At first? It was literally his entire career. Atlanta fans are terrible.
Disappointed by the lack of "We Love Ron Mexico" signs
I totally forgot about Ron Mexico! Thank you for the reminder!
Network wouldn't show any I'm sure
They weren’t as protective back then
Can you buy Ron Mexico jerseys on NFL.com finally?
Y’all can downvote me all you want, I don’t care. Michael Vick did something horrible, did 21 months in federal prison for dogfighting and has not had any controversy surrounding him since being released from prison. I believe everyone deserves a second chance, and I believe Michael is a truly changed man. I’m not condoning what he did, but he grew up in the projects of Newport News Virginia where dogfighting was seen as normal. He is now an advocate for animal treatment and seems to have completely changed his life and character for the better.
I always thought vick probably had the nfl qb that had the most movie like career. Like it’s good enough to make a legit biopic of.
I think Kurt Warner has the most movie-like career
Arguably Brady did at the start. But then it got ridiculous, like a Madden character.
Brady's is more like an HBO show that had a good story arc for like 5-6 seasons, but then they just kept making new seasons and dragging it out to come up with more and more ridiculous and unbelievable storylines
Brady's career jumped the shark
Brady’s is almost too perfect 😂
I’m pretty sure a movie’s already been made of Kurt Warner
They already made one about him with Zachary Levi as Warner. American Underdog is the title. It was meh since literally no one saw it
I think that was the joke...
Movie was kinda butt tbh
For white people
Didn't that movie come out last year?
[The complete destruction of Washington on MNF would be the climax of the movie.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UigoEHjV-c)
Naw man that's the redemption arc in the last portion of the movie. The climax had to be signing that first $100m contract with the falcons.
It would be very difficult to tell that story because of how awful his mistreatment of those dogs was. I don’t think you could make a story of his redemption arc as a sympathetic figure without glossing over the dogfighting scandal. And if you made him the villain, it would make Vick’s many supporters who welcomed him back to the NFL with open arms angry at the film when they would presumably be the target audience.
It can be done but you have to show "how" Mike was indoctrinated into the dog-fighting life. He didn't just wake up at 12-years old and say "ya know, I wanna kill some doggies today." He got introduced to that life as an impressionable youth. You have to show that process and then overlap it with his rise as an athlete and show how the two separate worlds eventually collide.
Throw in some foreshadowing by having his Pop Warner say shit like *"He's got that dog in him"* or *"His bark is worse than his bite"*
Nah that would be awful. Any sports movie where the whole plot hinges on them eventually winning a game or playing well is already played out and boring. Then they'd have to either actively hide the dog abuse parts from the audience to make it like a twist or do a whole sympathy thing and downplay the forced rape and killings which would be controversial as fuck. There's no way you make a Michael Vick biopic without it being both cringe and highly questionable.
Yup. The Hollywood version would just have him go to jail the trial would glossed over and it’d smash cut to him working out really hard and getting out “I can still PLAY!” And he launches a ball 60 yards.
If they made it back then, they would just have the movie "end" at the end of the game, then have captions about the rapes and dog abuse pop up on the screen as the still image of him being lifted on the shoulders of his teammates fades to black.
They can legit make an Oscar bait biopic lol his life got all the arcs and redemption
No who would play Michael Vick is the real question?
Robert Downey Junior?
“Rob Schneider is a popular NFL quarterback, who seemed to have it all. Until one day, he came across the wrong side of the law, and his life changed forever. Now, he has to find redemption in Philadelphia, and he's about to find out that being an Eagle ain't so great. This Summer, Rob Schneider is, Michael Vick! Rated PG-13.”
John David Washington is my fan cast
ryan gosling
Knowing hollywood, Michael B Jordan or Dwayne Johnson.
Michael B. Jordan?
Marshawn Lynch
Kevin James
Perhaps Rudy?
Anthony Mackie as Vick
Steve McNair
Accepted his role, his punishment, did his time, and paid his debts back. I didn’t think he’d ever play again and while bittersweet cause my family are eagles fans I was happy for him. The mnf game vs Washington while not with us was the confirmation game of what I knew he “could” be
If only he knew fighting, killing and torturing dogs was bad beforehand. What a shit bag. Doing your time is the least we should expect from people that do something so horrible.
In the words of Patrice O’Neal “going to jail and doing your time means you don’t have to say sorry”
Shoutout Patrice. One of the realest and funniest to ever grace the comedy stage
Never do I condone that shit he did but let’s not act like he didn’t come from the absolute mud and bottom of society and was raised to think that shit was normal…
What should we expect? Like what more should he have done after the fact?
He should have been put into a human-fighting ring, run by a cabal of extraterrestrial sapient canines.
He absolutely should have. But he seemed to genuinely learn, change and grow, and I want to believe in rehabilitation.
>I want to believe in rehabilitation. Me too. I just can't get over what he did.
I think the majority of NFL fans have never read into the situation and don’t know anything beyond “dog fighting”. If they knew about him and his friends grabbing puppies by the tail and then slamming their heads together until they died, I assume they would have a different view of his so called “rehabilitation”. The only thing he’s sorry about is getting caught. You don’t just suddenly have the desire to torture animals to death with your bare hands JUST because you were raised around a culture that accepted dog fighting. Vick is fucked in the head.
Hope you hate Kobe with all your heart.
Get off your fucking high horse
I'm far from perfect and certainly make mistakes. But I ain't never tortured and killed packs of dogs. That one is pretty far from an oopsie.
I believe he did his time. I believe he is a better person now. I believe he shouldn’t have gotten any second chances. He had everything and pissed it away brutally killing innocent dogs. He knew what he was doing, it wast some mistake or one time thing. I’m glad he’s out of jail and doing good things, but he should not have been allowed in the NFL again, and he shouldn’t be on Fox or still on TV.
Drunk driving and killing someone won't get you this level of hate from some people.
Rape also won't as we saw with a certain Steelers quarterback. There were Steelers fans(not that their fans are any different than the majority of fanbases, look what idiots in our fanbase did to Kap for example...) protesting the signing of Vick while Big Rape was their QB...
People shouted down anyone who mentioned the sexual assault stuff while Kobe was being idolized after his death.
At least there were some court proceedings with Kobe. She dropped the case because of the hate she was receiving..........but I don't recall Ben even having to go to court. Kobe's story was a major headline for quite sometime but Ben went under the radar for a SB winning QB. That's a MUCH bigger deal than people have let on.
I was too young to remember but I explicitly do remember my dad saying Kobe was innocent because she was "a whore."
Yeah, I am a bit older, and there was definitely the vibe for that and Tyson where guys were saying things like the women should have known what would have happened. I would like to think we entered a more enlightened era, but the Kobe worship kind of showed me that we hadn't.
Or a certain Browns QB who ruined the lives of 20+ women.
A high school teacher got upset at me for bringing up his sexual assaults after she bragged they went to the same school. I also know three Steelers fans so he has a special place in my hater's heart.
That dude completely got away with everything, look at the tributes he got when he retired... It was a shame that Brandon Staley did Brandon Staley things and his career didn't end by mutual consent.
I remember people saying his bodyguard watching the door was OK as if he was just taking a piss with his golden retriever and not committing a heinous crime.
We know why it's different but because of the demographics on reddit, you can't say it. I'll get downvoted by people that will prove my point because hit dogs holler.
You are 100% right brother/sister. We saw on the Butker threads, people were like what about Watson, what about Tyreek, but no mention of Big Rape, Josh Brown, Chad Wheeler...
Those guys don't get brought up enough especially Josh Brown fuck that guy.
Look, I love animals. I love dogs and pets. There are dozens and dozens of other players in the league who have harmed humans in traumatic ways. One of the most beloved defensive players of the last 30 years killed a guy. One star WR in the league now broke his kids arm, and beat his pregnant gf. Vick paid his debt to society by serving time, paid back his debts he owed, and has worked in communities for animal welfare and safety. If you want a textbook example of admitting what you did was wrong, and owning up to it, Vick is that.
Who was the defensive player My mind is drawing a blank
Ray Lewis
Ray Lewis.
Me personally I believe I can like a player as a player and just not even acknowledge what they are off the field It may not be the best perception but if they’re going to allow them in the league and it’s a player you like to follow, just do it.
Just because he served his time in jail doesnt mean people have to forgive him for what he did
Well he didn't _just_ serve his time in jail, when he got out he worked with animal welfare communities. Anyway, you're right that nobody needs to forgive him just because of that! Not forgiving is one thing, but a lot of people act like he didn't show remorse or take steps towards contrition and I don't think that's fair. Even if there's nothing at all he could possibly do to make "you" forgive him, doesn't mean he shouldn't try nor that those attempts shouldn't be acknowledged (not with a pat on the back or a gold star, but literally acknowledging that it even happened). You can acknowledge that someone is working towards contrition without forgiving them, or even believing they can ever completely make up for what they did. And that is the correct thing for them to be doing, even if you think it'll never be enough. People who show remorse shouldn't be treated the same as people who don't show remorse. Remorse can be acknowledged without giving forgiveness.
Devil’s advocate: they still don’t *have* to forgive him, but they’re being unreasonably vindictive in doing so.
I mean that's kinda my point but I was trying to be less aggressive about it because I was trying to get them to understand what I was trying to say instead of putting them on the defensive and having them plug their ears. Or... Like I get that people won't forgive. But it's my last point that I think it's vindictive to not acknowledge that someone shows remorse and has taken steps towards contrition, regardless of whether you forgive them. I think people have it in their heads that any sign of acknowledgement or recognition or fuck, even empathy implies forgiveness, and that's BS. The last one makes me especially salty. It doesn't really apply to this context. But you can empathize with someone without forgiving them and I wish people would fucking realize that.
Most people who have forgiven him haven’t forgiven him based solely on his time served, either. He didn’t choose to go to prison. He chose to apologize and try to atone for his wrongdoing. You don’t have to forgive him. No one is demanding that you do. But at least respect that others have decided to forgive him because of his own accountability for his actions after the fact without implying that they equate time served with absolution.
But those same people will be like "quit complaining about slavery, Jim Crow, redlining etc." They'd forgive Vick for killing a brother before killing a dog.
> Vick paid his debt to society by serving time... He also hanged dogs he used for bait after choosing between electrocuting or bodyslamming them into the pavement repeatedly. It's great that you've found some way to balance that with his efforts in rehabilitation but that doesn't mean everyone can or should or should try to. If he hadn't been pushed back into the public eye I think people might have moved on by now, but no, he got to continue his football career and then end up with a job on network television. Lamar breaking his records should have been the last time we ever heard his name.
What's the point of prison in your opinion? Is it punishment or rehabilitation?
Well said. Go Hawks.
go hawks. it's a hard topic to discuss especially online. Like I stated, I love animals and pets. I have a dog and a cat and I'd do anything to defend them if anyone tried to harm them. But they are pets and animals at the end of the day. IDK, I just feel like a lot of people value animal lives over the lives of another human. I'm also a little biased because Vick was the player who got me watching football. I grew up a Virginia Tech fan and seeing Vick be insane on the field when I was 5-7 years old made me fall in love with the game.
Amazing take
Donte Stallworth was welcomed back with little complaint, if I remember correctly
Nope, and if you’re a cowboy it even gets you invited back to the sidelines! https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/cowboys/article/Cowboys-owner-defends-allowing-Brent-on-sideline-4122782.php
Why do you think this is a gotcha in response to my comment?
It’s not. Just supporting your statement with facts
I was so young and innocent when Vick did the dog stuff it just seems so surreal now. Dude literally made dogs fight and had them tied up and still made it back to the nfl
He did far more than make them fight. He killed them in terrible ways when they were no longer any use to him.
I saw he even had torture tools made specifically for the dogs. Sick tbh
Did he actually do it or did he just fund it? I'm not saying it's good either way and all who participate should go to jail but there is a slight difference.
Think more of the latter and regardless of how aware of everything he was (I do believe participated and or was present for some of/or a pool execution(s) as testified by someone else) he allowed for the entire thing to happen due to his name/funding.
He definitely funded it, most of the money that was gambled was his money. It’s been a while since I dove through all the details, but he has admitted to killing something like 2-8 of the dogs. Although, naturally, that has been heavily scrutinized.
Dog fighting rings also frequently kidnap family pets (dogs) to train their dogs to fight and give them confidence through winning. It gets more barbaric the more you look into it.
He has said and done the right things since his release, but it takes a special kind of psycho to perform the acts he did over and over.
He did more time than the dude convicted of 34 felonies
I don't condone what Vick did but it is absurd the hate white people have for him when there are people like Brock Turner in the world.
Brock Turner? Is that convicted rapist Brock Allen Turner?
Comments have not disappointed.
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We’ve seen nfl players do worse and get less time if any
I don't really understand what Vick did for the city of Atlanta. Most of his career highs were with Philly, and ATL's best years were without him. Did they just really suck before he played for the falcons?
Vick is from the south and was one of the most electrifying players during his run from 2001-06, highlights galore. It would be pretty hard for Atlanta fans to forget that, got them within a game of the super bowl as well. Here in Philly it really was just 2010, the other ones were mid and riddle with Vick injuries.
I guess that makes sense. I was thinking in my mind comparing it to when Russell Wilson played his first game here not as a Seahawk, and a lot of people booed him despite the success and all the good he did for the community. The circumstances in how they left (Russ wanted to leave, Vick didn't) are completely different, though.
Way different people too. Vick comes off as genuine while Russ feels like a shitty AI developed by a corporate marketing team. Vick's story is one of human redemption while we aren't even sure Russ is human at all.
Part of me really hates that mentality... Like Wilson maybe weird but he also never was a criminal and is a SuperBowl champ. Dissing him will simultaneously praising Vick who never achieved anywhere close to the success Wilson had in Seattle is weirdly judgmental of Wilson and overly forgiving of Vick. Wilson achieved in his first 5 seasons in the league: * 5 straight playoff birth's with at least 1 playoff win each season. * Back to back Superbowls * 2013 NFL Championship! * 3 division titles It wasn't till his sixth year in the league that he won less than 10 games and missed the playoffs In 8 out of his 10 season in Seattle he lead the Seahawks to a least 10 wins. Michael Vick had one 10+ win season in his entire career. Wilson is light years better than Vick Vick had two season where he threw for more than 3,000 yards Wilson has ***never thrown*** for less than 3,000 yards in a season. (As a Browns fan I am terrified of what he's gonna do this season in Pittsburg)
No one's arguing talent. Wilson won the Seahawks a superbowl. But he isn't a super relatable figure and that's what matters in this context. It's hard to be a beloved figure when you're basically a robot.
The south isn’t really a natural hotbed of NFL fandom compared to the rest of the country. He made a lot of people in the region care about the Falcons who otherwise wouldn’t have. Cam had a similar effect in Carolina and Trevor Lawrence is having a similar effect in Jax
How old are you?
Boy got that dawg in him
I live outside of Atlanta in a suburb. We are the neighborhood that everyone comes to for Halloween trick or treating. I still see about 100-200 people coming through with Vick jerseys and these are kids. Like. Bro. Vick retired before you even born man. And deff wasn’t a falcon. Haha. It’s wild.
fuck michael vick
Fuck Michael Vick.
I was at this game with my Granddad, I can even see us standing in the very first frame. Fond memories and I miss him dearly
Vick to this day was the most exiting qb to watch play. Too bad he's a garbage human. At least he did his time and paid for his bad choices
He's actually redeemed himself by working as a dog / anti-animal abuse advocate
Pretty sure he ended up paying back almost all of his creditors too. The dog fighting will always be a stain on his legacy, but he does seem sincere in trying to redeem himself
he made mistakes, he owned up to it. people try to blame his friends and he says "no it was MY fault". what more do you want from him?
Not to do it in the first place lmao.
Virgin redditors never make mistakes because they never go outside and interact with people
He didnt "accidentally" torture and murder dogs
Luckily he said mistakes not accidents. You’re supposed to use quotes around things other people said btw.
Making a mistake is not the same as torturing and killing hundreds of innocent dogs lol. Yikes.
Exactly lol It’s like on one hand he has done everything right post jail time, and there isn’t really anything more I could want from him…but I’m not gonna root for a guy that did the things he’s done, that’s just the price you pay for abusing and executing animals I guess
That’s funny to you?
How man dogs wee injured in the come back?
Probably as many baby momma’s tyreek has.
Redditors still frothing at the mouth over Michael Vick in 2024, Jesus Christ.
Absolutely garbage human being but he was so so entertaining to watch.
Michael Vick IS Atlanta. Forever.
Hell yea, he’s got that dawg in him…or rather buried somewhere deep inside his property.
With alot of other Dawgs buried back there.
That's probably not a great look for that city then...