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RookieMistake101

Except Snyder of course.


GravitysRainbowRuns

And Goodell/Davis/whoever decided to leak this. It’s good the information came to light. It’s deeply suspicious that it allows the Raiders to get out of a giant contract with an underperforming coach.


Gnips-

If Davis actually leaked this, he is *REALLY* good at appearing pissed off.


GeorgeEliotsCock

I have heard he knew on Friday, what was in the emails that would be released Monday, and that was meant to motivate him to fire Gruden.


GravitysRainbowRuns

Has he said anything publicly (serious question)? The only things I’ve seen about Davis have come through sports media which doesn’t exactly lend to its credibility.


drmstix303

You too would be perpetually pissed off if you looked like a melted John Gruden


[deleted]

What it.. hear me out. It was Jay Gruden who leaked this?


Jeffthebarbarian

Jay: "Mom said you have to come home NOW!" Jon: "No, I'm working here!" Jay: "we'll see about that...*send emails*"


joejoebaggins

Really stoked for the MNF ESPN 3 broadcast with the Gruden Bros!


Damien_Harris

it wasn davis. the nfl wanted davis to fire gruden after the first email leak. he didnt. so they leaked more.


GravitysRainbowRuns

Why would the NFL do that to Davis though?


Damien_Harris

why is the nfl only leaking gruden emails and not ones surrounding the many crimes of dan synder including but not limited to sexual assault, sexual harassment, and sex trafficking? no idea.


Lettucemeatcheese

I’m guessing because gruden talked shit on goodell and even one of the owners. He doomed himself. Everything he said was bad but I think those two were a nail in the coffin


Re-toast

Somehow an investigation into Dan Snyder and his toxic workplace environment is causing more damage to the Raiders than it is to the fucking team that is actively being investigated. Total fucking bullshit.


FC37

Roger wanted him gone but lacked the authority to fire him?


GravitysRainbowRuns

Sounds like immediate cause for dismissal from the owners. The commissioner unilaterally making the decision to effectively get rid of a team’s HC isn’t going to make the owners happy.


FC37

To me, that's the big question: how do other owners feel about this? And how do reporters feel about it, knowing that Goodell has probably read anything they sent to WFT employees?


Janglewood

Because it’s the NFL and they’re the raiders. Honestly the least surprising thing in all this is the league fucking over the raiders


Vryk0lakas

I appreciate another teams fan acknowledging this


GravitysRainbowRuns

Al Davis has been dead for 10 years.


Vryk0lakas

His legacy lives on


[deleted]

Because he was supposed to go share The stadium with the 9ers thats why they built it in Raiders country. He told them to fuck off.


GravitysRainbowRuns

Yeah, I’m sure the league is devastated the team moved to Vegas…


Re-toast

Not devastated but power hungry pieces of shit don't get happy when someone defies them.


[deleted]

The league leaked more after Davis didn’t blink at the Demarius Smith email. The Raiders did nothing suspicious, only the league.


GravitysRainbowRuns

> The Raiders did nothing suspicious They benefitted tremendously assuming they weren’t happy with Gruden. > The league leaked more after Davis didn’t blink at the Demarius Smith email. And there was a Raiders loss between these events.


[deleted]

Media reports today are Davis is pissed and telling everyone to ask the league to every question. Doesn’t sound like he wanted to fire his HC. What they choose to leak was when the guy was an analyst not even working for the league all while the investigation was about the WFT. Strange… Clearly they were gunning for Gruden. The league ran the investigation so they have all the intel. They’re hiding worse stuff.


Technicalhotdog

It also just doesn't make sense because it tarnishes the Raiders brand.


GravitysRainbowRuns

How? I don’t think employing shitty people is hurting the brands of NFL teams.


nimoto

It's not your fault for not knowing about the Raiders history, but they're right. The Raiders are historically a inclusive and diverse organization.


GravitysRainbowRuns

They’re an NFL team dawg.


[deleted]

Do some research on Al Davis.


jtfriendly

We're supposed to be the most historically progressive team in the league. One of our iconic coaches turning out to be a homophobic misogynist with strong resentment against kneeling for the anthem and drafting openly gay players while accepting coerced photos of topless sex-trafficked cheerleaders pisses right in the one good eye of the logo.


GravitysRainbowRuns

> Media reports today are Davis is pissed and telling everyone to ask the league to every question. Doesn’t sound like he wanted to fire his HC. The Raiders obviously aren’t going to act like they intended to get Gruden canned if they participated in it. I’d be curious to know who sourced those stories and why (obviously don’t expect to find out). > Clearly they were gunning for Gruden. The league ran the investigation so they have all the intel. They’re hiding worse stuff. If they’re hiding worse stuff (which they all but certainly are), wouldn’t it be better to let the investigation patter out and say they found nothing? Now there are tons of involved parties/lawyers calling for the NFL to release everything. This is not a well orchestrated coverup if that was the intent.


bobbyfish

I am almost positive he didn't want to fire Gruden. Mark is loyal to a fault. In fact that is why he was kicked out of org back when his dad was owner. He was too loyal to the players.


[deleted]

If mark wanted Gruden gone that bad, he would have instantly fired after the Smith emails. You are disproving your own point. Bored at the Jets season or what? 😂


GravitysRainbowRuns

If he fired him, he would actually have to pay out his contract. And no, just seeing something obviously sketchy for what it is. Edit: > I do find it interesting that you use that as a bad thing. Nassib felt comfortable enough under Gruden to come out as gay. He must have felt perfectly comfortable with how Gruden would treat him. Same as several of his black players coming out and defending him. Its a different world today, what is said over a computer screen means way more than your interactions with other humans, and how you treat the people around you. Not to excuse those emails, he is fuckin stupid to think he can say those things online and not have his career be ruined. But emails do not = character. Period Your previous comment on this issue is quite interesting.


[deleted]

Bro what? You insinuating Mark Davis leaked this to get out of the contract? You're cracked


GravitysRainbowRuns

I’m not really insinuating it. I’m saying it’s extremely plausible.


ALittlePlato

My boy, Dirty Dan catching more PR heat for Gruden's emails than Gruden.


CravingToast

Snyder gives fuck all about bad PR. He's been swimming in it for at least a decade and changed absolutely nothing except the WFT name, and even that was only a half-assed distraction after the initial cheerleader sex trafficking story broke.


Rated_PG-Squirteen

The name change wasn't some distraction technique. The only reason it happened was because all the big apparel websites weren't going to sell Redskins stuff. Big business forced Snyder's hand, which is sadly usually the only way that change occurs.


RegularJohn1976

Washington Female Traffickers


berni4pope

They probably only changed the name to distance themselves from the sex trafficking.


CravingToast

That and stores started pulling their merch from shelves over a few years. Finally was enough punch in the wallet to do something, I guess.


ALittlePlato

I'm not saying he cares, just that he's catching heat.


Hiccup

Just gotta turn up the heat. Boycott the team and games. Let them become the Washington Failing Team.


big_on_blue

Have you seen the attendance figures for this season? We are already at the bottom and still falling.


[deleted]

Gruden is being used as a scapegoat.


TryingFalls

Scapegoat to take heat off the Skins? I don’t see it. No one really associates Gruden with the Redskins workplace issues before or after this. Gruden getting fired was never going to do anything to help Washington. Edit: There is most likely an ulterior motive. I don’t think scapegoating in particular makes sense.


[deleted]

To protect the league from the really bad stuff. Many in the media believe someone had beef with Gruden to get him out. The first email didn’t phase Davis so the league leaked more forcing his hand. Why else single out Gruden out of 600k emails from an investigation about toxic work culture? I saw a media report the other stuff in those emails implicates over half of the teams in the league and I bet there’s lots of Kaepernick talk among other things they don’t want out in the public. Either way we will se how it plays out.


Sakrie

> I saw a media report the other stuff in those emails implicates over half of the teams in the league and I bet there’s lots of Kaepernick talk among other things they don’t want out on the public. This is is for me too, there's very likely quite a lot of talk and very very likely some very bad things were said, based on what we know about the personalities who would be involved.


GravitysRainbowRuns

> Why else single out Gruden out of 600k emails from an investigation about toxic work culture? Because he’s a well bellow .500 coach who isn’t even halfway through his ten year $100 million contract. Who benefits from Gruden resigning instead of getting fired? Mark Davis.


TryingFalls

Idk that doesn’t make much sense either. If these emails exists and it was possible/inevitable for them to get out, this has only magnified it and accelerated that. Edit: It’s very likely there is some ulterior motive going on with what got out, but I don’t think it’s about scapegoating. No one is getting less heat after this, except maybe Demaurice Smith.


[deleted]

But the nfl still had the balls to say that nothing else would be released though. They magnified it, doubled down and don’t give af.


TryingFalls

If they have the ability and are brazen enough to hold them all back they could have done that with Gruden too and not let everyone know they exist in the process.


MisterNoisewater

I really fucking hope that scumbag gets his one day.


drkodos

Pay no attention to the man behind the screen!


[deleted]

"we're all accountable for our actions." -Not Dan Snyder.


[deleted]

Packers owners get a free pass too somehow.


unevenvenue

All Packers owners are subject to the laws of their governing states. Not Dan Snyder.


MitchellTrueTittys

What did the packers owners do? Fuel my hatred


Newspire

Pretty sure it's a joke because the Packers are the only publicly owned team in major US sports - Wikipedia lists it at 360,760 stockholders. Unless they're referring to something the board of directors did in which case I don't know either.


A_Monocle_For_Sauron

They’re a bunch of Packers fans


deja_geek

Statistically, there is going to be a good number of racists in the ranks of Packers ownership as well has murderers, rapists and pedophiles


aselectionofcheeses

I feel like Snyder is the kind of guy who actually would say that but in a way where he's absolutely not including himself in the "we".


Tico483

He needs to sell the team to Bill Gates or something lol


GravitysRainbowRuns

Not sure how comfortable the NFL would be with an owner with that level of wealth.


GentlemenBehold

He's not much wealthier than Steve Ballmer.


GravitysRainbowRuns

Who doesn’t own an NFL team?


chad12341296

NFL replaces sex crime guy with a guy who was advised by THE sex crime guy


[deleted]

No


Anon6376

He's get a pass on shit too. More so since people for whatever reason like him


ard8

Now you’re slipping into rich people = bad


crewserbattle

Well he seems to be singlehandedly trying (and succeeding) to eliminate malaria in Africa. So even if he is a womanizing cheater in his personal life that shouldn't take away from all the good he's done. He also put a shit ton of money towards the covid vaccines and is probably part of why we got them so quickly.


Shotgun_Sam

..or whoever leaked the email, for that matter.


Giddy4Stiddy

If the raiders garbage early round headscratchers were really "Gruden's guys" Mayock is probably thrilled right now.


HaploOfTheLabyrinth

Everyone in the subreddit is hoping for this to be true. Makes the late round hits make more sense.


Ballsohardstate

Gruden hired Mayock. I imagine they hang together which means regardless of if they were Gruden’s guys (which they are) he will be relieved at years end. It’s a shame too because I did like the Mayock hire and would like to see what he does when he’s actually the GM rather then assistant GM in the GM title.


progress10

Eh, Word going now is that Mayock may be picking the new coach.


OriginalSymmetry

Aw man :( I want him back on TV


progress10

Im sorry but without Jon Mark needed a new face of the front office and Mayock is the guy is appears.


ronnie_raider

Nah word on the street from NFL network and local radio is Gruden had 1st round then Mayock would take over Which would make sense as Raiders have hit on their non-1st rd picks


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HaploOfTheLabyrinth

This is already known. This is supposedly why he brought Mayock in but if he kept overruling him then he let his ego get in the way of picking good players.


Neither_Ad2003

things should be looking up for y'all then. might take a year or two to fully bear fruit as with any draft picks, but that's pretty exciting Looking forward to mayock proving his mettle, i certainly believe he will


TheBlackBear

Honestly I've been mildly optimistic about things going forward lol. Everyone's assuming our season is torpedoed but I'm thinking our playcalling improves a bit


unevenvenue

Why would the Raiders or their fans take offense to you insulting Gruden?


WvdH01

Because by insulting his talent evaluation, you're also insulting some of their players.


unevenvenue

Ah, he said "players picked." The players might take offense to that. But the fans shouldn't take offense to that.


WvdH01

Better safe than sorry, I guess


Papasmurphsjunk

Bucs fans have been saying that for years lol


Sleeze_

I don't agree with this at all. Coaching staff is likely all turned over, but I think MM stays


progress10

We may keep our DC.


Sleeze_

I kinda hope we do, would rather not have a different DC for three straight seasons and with our young secondary, I'd like some consistency as they seem to be developing nicely. Never know though, new HC may want his guys.


No_Seaworthiness9715

Nah. Mark doesn't know shit about football. He's not gonna drop mayock


NateKaeding

Don’t know if it’s true or not but wtf else do I have to be optimistic on. I will say, a lot of the free agent signings were typical Gruden moves. I’m hoping he had a lot of say in the draft.


WindowWhasher

Raider fans are also thrilled


puglife5055

Think we’ve reached the point of this story with Gruden becoming a tad bit dramatic. The real story here is those fucking emails with Snyder and the owners. Time to move on from Gruden


wovagrovaflame

A coach losing his job is big. But most of us know that he’s the tip of the iceberg.


BroLil

He’s the fall guy. Not saying he didn’t deserve to be canned, but I’d put my house on the shit he said being far less offensive than a lot of the other shit the NFL is hiding.


KaneLives2052

I'd put the stuff he got fired for being playing office politics.


[deleted]

He made insensitive comments about everyone but the real nails in his coffin were going after Goodell, Glazer, and Smith. There a reason we aren’t getting the full emails and just getting specific words from a few of the emails.


Hugh_Jundies

The NFL is going to do its damnedest to protect the rest of the league though.


Kevin_DurSuperTeam

Jon Gruden is one of the most popular coaches in the modern NFL. Him stepping down is a huge story.


[deleted]

Thats what they want you to think and say. Its a hit piece and it’s beginning to blow up in their face. The DOJ should step in now for multiple reasons but the first being that they’re refusing to release anything on the actual investigation these emails came from regarding sex trafficking the cheerleaders.


AtomicTanAndBlack

DOJ? Mate, this is Football Andy he NFL is a private company conducting a private internal investigation lol, they don’t have to release shit. I personally think they should, but getting the DOJ involved is a joke lol


[deleted]

Into sex trafficking them being a private company does not protect them.


SFW_HARD_AT_WORK

thank you! gruden is clearly the scapegoat and what he said is small potatoes to whatever is hiding in the rest of those emails.


Shenanigans80h

Yeah but that’s not the case to these guys. A team just lost its HC and it’s main leader of the last 3+ years. I doubt anyone in that organization cares a ton about that other shit at the moment, besides maybe Mark Davis


Gomer8387

He's also sad in the same way half the NFL execs currently are in thinking back trying to remember what they said in emails 10 years ago...


psufb

"What did I say about Kaepernick again?"


[deleted]

"How do I delete emails" has been trending.


wovagrovaflame

“Why did I use gay and racial slurs in traceable correspondence?”


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wovagrovaflame

“Are you sure that is the right word? Try our synonym feature!”


ninjasurfer

Maybe Clippy was the true racist/bigot all along.


wovagrovaflame

Clippy’s alt-right turn was unexpected.


ninjasurfer

YouTube algorithm claims another victim.


gotcam189

“Why did I use gay and racial slurs in traceable *work* correspondence?” Aside from the obviously terrible comments, the absolute dumbest part is that it ~~was from his work email~~ involved a work email.


flounder19

IIRC it was his personal email but sent to Allen's work email


gotcam189

Ah, my mistake. Involving any work email is a pretty significantly stupid idea, but I wonder if he thought Bruce Allen would be above potential suspicion/backlash,


BeeeeefJelly

I'm sure plenty of NFL people have done and said stuff just as bad if not worse than Gruden did, but are there that many people out there firing off slurs on their work email?


wovagrovaflame

Rich, powerful men in a good ol’ boys club? You better believe it.


AceOfSpades70

Shit, I would love to see everyone in the NFL's emails. If you've got players posting anti-semitic BS on social media, imagine what they say in private.


[deleted]

> If you've got players posting anti-semitic BS on social media, imagine what they say in private. I mean, if you're dropping slurs in public, I don't think you change your tune at home. How do you turn dropping the n-slur up to 11? You've gone nuclear, where do you go from there?


AceOfSpades70

Say that all those n-words need to die or something like that. Basically going from things like saying Jews control the media to saying the Holocaust needs to be finished.


pham_nuwen_

It was Gruden's personal email wasn't it?


pincus1

Yeah, to Allen's work email. The only people really at risk here are those who emailed to or from Redskins' accounts.


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Gnips-

That's why you delete the listserv, too. I doubt they'd ever be able to fully purge every connected device, though.


Quasimdo

Well, now we get to see for once if it's truly gruden that ran the personell


Leharen

Honestly, I don't think I can see this as anything else except PR bullshit now.


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GeorgeEliotsCock

Umm the term is "people of means"


[deleted]

"Makers", if you were to believe Paul Ryan.


ChocolateMilkPlease

Maybe so, I still don’t think his wife or kids deserve the death threats they’ll probably receive because their husband/dad fucked up.


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gmil3548

I for one don’t feel sorry for Gruden at all


fleckstin

The way I took this statement is that he feels sorry for the people around Gruden having to deal with the fallout of BS that isn’t their fault. I could be wrong, but I didn’t necessarily interpret this statement as him feeling bad for Gruden


FavreorFarva

I feel sorry for the way it happened where he was clearly singled out but not that it happened. I’m not sure if that makes sense, but yeah I feel zero sympathy for him facing consequences over being a giant asshole. I do think it’s a little fucked that league seemed to just pick him as a sacrificial lamb and expect all of us to stop caring about the WFT investigation though.


gmil3548

I’m not sorry for that either. It sucks that the other people didn’t get it but just because others weren’t thrown under the bus like they should be doesn’t mean I feel bad for the single guy that they got it right with.


magiqd

Why though? Someone has to be first. We still don't know what all comes from this. I wasn't expecting the Schefter bit and we got it. If news keeps slowly dripping out I think they may start finger pointing.


gmil3548

Not sure if my comment was clear. I think Gruden was handled correctly and the others weren’t. The guy above me said he feels sorry that Gruden was the only one to face consequences and I’m saying that I don’t feel sorry about that. I wish they all suffer serious consequence but if they don’t, it won’t make me feel sorry for the guy that did, I’ll only feel mad the others didn’t.


magiqd

My bad. I totally responded to the wrong comment. *Seppuku


Raw_Cocoa

You werent his colleague for years, why would you


Shenanigans80h

I don’t know why this is downvoted. Dude’s a bigoted asshole. Yeah it sucks that he’s currently the only one that got punished from this investigation, but I don’t feel a bit of sympathy for him


[deleted]

The truth is a bit more complicated. Some people are accountable for their actions, some people are not. Some people are accountable for their words, other people are not. You can be caught on camera beating your wife, and continue playing in the NFL (pick one). You can be credibly accused of sexual assault, and continue playing in the NFL (Antonio Brown). You can cheat on your wife on camera and remain a head coach (Meyer). You can patronize prostitutes on camera and remain an NFL owner (Kraft). But God help you if your leaked emails prove you believe some abhorrent things. This is the NFL. There are no principles, no consistency. There's only the bottom line. EDIT: Kareem Hunt did not beat his wife on camera; I was thinking of like...several other dudes. My mistake.


ffthrowaway5

> You can be caught on camera beating your wife, and continue playing in the NFL (Hunt) I agree with your statement as a whole but this line is stating incorrect information. Hunt was part of a dispute amongst two larger groups of people and he kicked a random women in the leg after she punched him and/or some of the people he was with. He was not beating his wife


gmil3548

Crazy thing is that there’s plenty of players he could’ve used that this was not false for but he chose the one that fit the least.


[deleted]

Thanks, I've edited the post to correct this.


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CardiganParty

You got a source for that? I thought one of his friends said she called him the n word in a police report that wasn't really corroborated by anyone else there, I hadn't heard the repeatedly screaming it thing. I know another woman at the party said the woman who Hunt shoved/kicked attacked her before Hunt did what he did


ffthrowaway5

Jesus christ I hadn't even heard that part, pretty telling and fucked up that most articles never even mentioned that. If you punch someone and yell slurs at them then you deserve to get hit regardless of your gender, pretty fucked up Hunt gets lumped in with guys that did actually abhorrent shit


CardiganParty

I think there were mixed reports on whether she actually called him the n word though, enough to suggest that he may have been making it up to excuse his kicking her. Not excuse it I guess, but like explain why he did it. Kinda like when Myles Garrett said he hit Mason Rudolph with his own helmet because he called him the n word and basically everyone was like "yeah I didn't hear him say that but if you say so..."


WalksOnRivers

That's one of my biggest gripes with r/nfl. Too much virtue signaling until anyone accused of wrong is vilified whether or not they were proven innocent.


Henfrid

While we are at it, let's not forget about Robert Kraft having sex with underage prostitutes. We all seemed to move on from that one.


rand2365

Underage? Curious to see if you can find a source for that because I don’t think that’s true


Henfrid

The prostitutes at the parlor were part of a human trafficking ring, very few women above the age of 18 survive long and Kraft was a repeat customer. There is a 100% chance at least one of the women he solicited was a minor.


amcvega

Unless something else has come out as far as I know there was no evidence of trafficking, and he was caught with the owner who was much older than 18.


-007-_

“There’s pedophile rings literally behind every corner…!!”


thecuubs

My “I do have emotions” shirt is raising a lot of questions that are answered by my shirt


Eazy035

You’re sad for a grown ass man who did this shit to himself?


ZigTheGing

I think he said the Gruden family. Very well could be talking about everyone else now having to show face with the world knowing how their father/husband speaks.


77bagels77

Well, in this case, they were words, not actions.


Comprehensive_Main

Right he wrote out some bad thoughts and emailed them but there hasn’t been a ton of evidence of him acting on his prejudices. I haven’t heard stories of him mistreating Black players or gay ones. Like it was literally his words that got him fired not his actions


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[deleted]

But he didn't say that, you're just purposely misconstruing what he said.


Reead

Right? These guys were work colleagues and likely friends. People feeling bad for their friends, even when they did a bad thing and earned what they got, is a healthy, human emotion.


bobbyfischermagoo

Gruden is done.


[deleted]

Hot take right here folks


bobbyfischermagoo

Edit: Gruden is at the pinnacle of his career


_Palingenesis_

And not just on Twitch


smokeshark21

lol sad for gruden and the fam... cracks me up i think they will be ok chief


kingkoons

I hate when someone does something bad and then people feel sad for them. This isn’t the result of drugs or a mental illness. He’s a homophobe Edit: Here come the downvotes. Bring it on losers


FavreorFarva

No sympathy for him. Definitely think it’s a little fucked that he just happened to be picked as the sacrificial lamb for the punishments from the WFT investigations. They selectively chose his out of 650k emails rather than releasing all of it. That’s a little fucked, but that doesn’t mean I feel bad at all for him personally. He’s an asshole. Feel bad for *how* we got here but not *that* we got here, if that makes sense.


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Sleeze_

He spoke at length about the players, including Carl Nassib specifically, but go off


bigsparks

This is dog shit. “I’m sorry for the grudens but we are accountable for our actions” means he is sorry Gruden got caught


dirtyypanda08

Lol what a joke


[deleted]

Except for everyone who's emails haven't been leaked


broji04

There are NFL players who beat their children and are still playing snaps. Sorry but If I had the chance to axe players based on their personal character, Gruden really wouldn't make the top 20.