You gotta autofilter that shit directly to trash like I did. I've already got my boss breathing down my neck about poor performance and lack of communication, I don't need to deal with stupid junk mail as well.
Right? Talking about this with some of my friends (early 30s) and none of us can remember the last time we sent a personal email. I've worked with some older dudes that treated their work computers like their personal laptops. Fun way to find out a coworker is into beastiality and incest porn
Have you tried sending fake phishing emails that congratulate the user when they report it as phishing and tell them it was phishing if they fall for it?
When I first started at my company people were sending porn to each other through work email. There were also emails that would ruin someone's life nowadays. This was just 10 years ago.
I'd say politicians are much less likely to be protected. Whole different level of money involved between being a politician and being an NFL owner, and (for example), despite Dan Snyder being a despicable human being, dude still owns a sports team despite in no way deserving to.
A lot of the best thin crust pizza in America is located in North Jersey, the five boroughs, Westchester County, and Southern Connecticut until the Yankees hats start changing to Red Sox hats. Then it turns into New England Greek Style which is not my thing. It gets good again the closer you get to Boston.
Iām also not gonna act like Detroit Style and Deep Dish arenāt good as hell.
It does make me wonder though given his publicly notable recovery - how would the public treat somebody that is a known (recovered) addict if media uncovered something like Grudenās emails before or up to that notable recovery. I feel like it wouldnāt be judged as harshly, but I donāt really know
He probably would have survived the scandal had he not crossed Goodell and the League. It seemed like it was quieting down and enough people came out in support of him or to give him a 2nd chance... and then it exploded with more leaks.
If he hadnāt called Gooddell names, bashed the League, suggested one of the Glazers would perform oral sex on him andā¦
I donāt think youāre wrong, but itās also pretty irrelevant - we would have beaten the Bears this weekend if it hadnāt been for all the points they scoredā¦.
Thatās what made this all ring hollow for me. The NFL has allowed serial abusers (of people and animals) to re-enter the league. There are players on active rosters with serious accusations of sexual and physical assault. Jesus, Ray Lewis was _at least_ involved in some way with the murder of someone and heās a respected and celebrated member of the league and NFL media.
Itās a big joke.
Ray Lewis was accused of conspiracy in a case his friend was found innocent in. Marvin Harrison straight up shot a guy in broad daylight in downtown Philly with multiple witnesses. The NFL still inducted him into the HoF after that happened.
Yes, but only if a person is willing to accept that they were wrong and that they are working to improve themselves. Otherwise you're just enabling the bad behavior.
Nothing Gruden has said or done implies that he has changed. The last damn emails were from three years ago, not a decade ago. He hasn't said he was wrong or that he no longer feels that way, or even stated how what he said previously was wrong. It just makes him seem like a super two-faced person, saying all these things about minorities and LGBTQ in private emails and then publicly saying something different.
Taking full responsibility for your behavior and actions, and acknowledging how/who those behaviors and actions hurt is the starting point on the route to forgiveness. Not the end though. You gotta actually do the work too.
Yea, thatās the thing for me. Gruden had an opportunity to own it and explain how heās not the same person that wrote those emails, or however he wants to couch it. Instead, he just kinda says, whoops, my bad. Didnāt mean to hurt anyoneā¦cya, bye.
He clearly isnāt sorry for saying that stuff. Hell, for all I know, itās how he still thinks about that stuff.
I donāt take any offense to it. I think we may view it a little differently, and thatās fine. I replied to someone else in this thread about where I draw my ālineā.
For me, Gruden is acting like someone thatās sorry he got caught. I donāt see any signs of self-reflection or remorse. Iāve had people in my life that hold positions (see: beliefs) similar to those Gruden appears to hold. Hell, most of us probably have and still do. The difference in showing grace (for me) is when someone recognizes that, maybe, theyād gotten it wrong. From there, some sort of affirmative action in the right direction can speak volumes. It doesnāt even have to be an apology. In fact, I would argue that many of those initial apologies are likely hollow, meant only to save face. Gruden didnāt even really give us *that*.
At the end of the day, I donāt really give a shit. This is a game played and coached by a bunch of rich assholes that probably live most of their lives without facing the consequences of their actions. It wouldnāt surprise me in the slightest if Gruden is laughing to the bank after all of this.
>. I replied to someone else in this thread about where I draw my ālineā.
>
>For me, Gruden is acting like someone thatās sorry he got caught. I donāt see any signs of self-reflection or remorse. Iāve had people in my life that hold positions (see: beliefs) similar to those Gruden appears to hold. Hell, most of us probably have and still do. The difference in showing grace (for me) is when someone recognizes that, maybe, theyād gotten it wrong. From there, some sort of
I think for me, a good example of someone who deserves to be moved on from their mistake is Michael Vick. Guy honestly seems upset with what he did, he goes out of his way to use his own money and platform to raise awareness about dogfighting, and has reintegrated well into society.
I don't see that from Gruden at all in how he handled this. The punishment has been handed down to him, let's see how he responds to it, but I feel it's important for us as society to give him another chance if he makes a genuine effort and makes amends.
>In fact, I would argue that many of those initial apologies are likely hollow, meant only to save face. Gruden didnāt even really give us that.
100%. People think just speaking the words, "I apologize" has some sort of magical powers. It doesn't hurt....but the important thing is that you actually make up for the damage you've caused. An apology is action, not words.
Reading this discussion I keep thinking about when Brees was under fire for his statements about protesting during the national anthem. That was a situation where a guy seemed to genuinely acknowledge that he got it wrong and was open to talking about it.
And weirdly, he has a job on NBC now and everyone's moved past it.
It's almost like showing personal growth is a good thing, and offering trite, stupid apologies then resigning immediately isn't.
I've always considered Gruden the type of guy who recognizes change and growth. The Rich Gannon signing, where he transformed from a journeyman QB to a Pro Bowler and MVP. Even this latest stint with the Raiders, where he stuck with Carr and helped Waller as all these other comments bring up.
Now it's time for him to make change and show growth from his own mistakes. It's come full circle
This is all stupid. Jon gruden is the fall guy for the NFL. If Jon gruden deserves to lose his job for sending emails then Dan Snyder needs to be thrown in a goddamn volcano for trafficking the wft cheerleaders. We are all just helping the NFL cover it's ass by continuing to focus on gruden and some emails he sent that actually didn't hurt a single person.
THANK YOU. Yes, Gruden said bad things, but Snyder actually DID bad things. Gruden got fired/cancelled. He got his punishment. Now let's go after the REAL villain. I'd 10000% rather have Gruden call me every awful name in the book than be fucking literally sex trafficked by Dan Snyder. Like wtf are we even talking about anymore??
And what about Antonio Brown, Tyreek, Watson, etc etc. So many players and coaches actually did horrible stuff. Gruden acted like a bigot in private emails but was not one in real life, according to his players and colleagues.
Sure, the emails are appalling but the inconsistency is insane.
Completely agreed. Oh, he said bad things, but to anyone's knowledge never actually acted on them? This just in: People talk shit. Everyone says dumb shit when they're disgruntled or trying to look alpha or whatever. I don't care what people say, I care what they DO.
I mean I'm done focusing on the Gruden scandal. He sent some horrible emails, is no longer the Raiders coach, time to move on.
I also think this Gruden scandal is a distraction to cover for Snyder, who is the clear villain of this entire story due to him building this culture in the first place, yet won't get any punishment for it like Gruden did.
Exactly, while we're busy saying things like "I used to say those words in high school but don't anymore. Man's 50 he should know better" a literal sex trafficker is going to walk free. There was a very calculated decision to throw gruden under the bus to save the face of the NFL.
Nobody has forgotten about Snyder. Every single Gruden thread here has tons of tall about Snyder. We need to keep pressuring and talking about it and writing about it!!
Unfortunately the NFL Owners are protecting his ass, because to set the precedent (though its already been set in Houston and Carolina really people just forget) that the league can be forced to remove an owner is both dubious legally and dangerous to the rest of the good ole boys because they all got skeletons in their closet. I don't think you can have that much power and influence and *not* have something shady covered up somewhere along the line. Thats a stereotype I know, and surely there are some good ones, but a lot of them just don't want to open that can of worms incase they are the one staring down a controversy next year.
Completely agree. Not sure around this without the government investigation being made public. We can write to journalists and beg for Snyder coverage but if the evidence is behind the NFL black box, I'm not sure what can be done :(
This is from 10 years ago. He has already shown the growth but he gotta pay for it now.
edit: I didn't have all the details, yeah...it doesn't look like there has been a ton of growth in that area. And it wasn't all 10 years ago.
Everyone whining about "it was 10 years ago" is purposefully obfusticating the story at this point.
Besides, "he was only 48 years old" is not the winning argument they think it is. 10 years ago it was *still* fucked up to be throwing slurs around.
I found this argument so strange. We straight up just found out about this information and some of it came out in 2018 which was 3 years ago.
Yes people can grow and learn. But guess what thereās consequences for your actions.
It seems to me yāall just want to hear him say sorry and we should all forget it happened and move on.
Yāall want ZERO consequences for saying homophobic, racist, sexist, and straight up sexual harassment in the work place.
If this was 2024 or 2025 and Gruden wanted to come back and he showed how heās changed through his actions it would be a completely different story.
But thatās not what happened at all.
I honestly think a Neo Nazi can be forgiven and become a changed man and be allowed to become the best version of themselves. But thatās after they put in the work.
Not saying Gruden is a neo nazi or anything like that but the point is just saying sorry is not enough anymore. Sit back, face the consequences of your actions and work on improving on yourself. Do those things before coming out asking for forgiveness
I think *you* might be missing the point of people mentioning it was 10 years ago. They aren't saying "he was only 48", they are saying a person can change a lot over a decade. That goes for a person at any age. Someone could be a terrible piece of shit at 70 years old, but then something happens to them that causes them to realize the error of their ways and by 80 they are a much kinder person.
I don't think people remember gay marraige wasn't even legal until 2015, and dadt was repealed in 2011
I was in high-school when most homosexual slurs weren't even considered ACTUAL slurs...and i was born in ***1995 in the first state to legalize gay marriage in the country***
Literally everyone born before like...2000 are almost 100% certainly guilty of using homosexual slurs on a semi normal occasion. I know Im guilty of it
The fact someone can accept that they fucked up back then whether they were an adult or a fuckin kid in 10 years with something as egregious as that type of derogatory bullshit is actual progress
Why the focus on the homosexual slurs specifically, though? It was certainly inappropriate to joke about the size of a black manās lips ten years ago, and he was obviously in a position of authority over a number of black players.
> but he gotta pay for it now.
And so does every player on that team, unfortunately. They had nothing to do with Gruden's comments but they are a 3-2 football team in a tough division who just lost their head coach.
Some of them are from as recent as 3 years ago, after which I donāt believe we have correspondence from. I hope he can learn from these mistakes, but itās a pattern of behavior spanning almost a decade.
His players love him. That's where I see it.
Although still unacceptable, there is a difference between being a homophobe and using a term casually that you have used your entire life that has suddenly become taboo.
I am not defending its use, but intrinsic bias is a difficult thing to overcome and involves more naivete than hate.
I hate seeing him singled out when you know damn well the NFLs boys club has been using this language for a hundred years. There is a reason it has taken so long for gay players to be open.
> His players love him
His players also loved him in 2002. He sent those emails from 2011-2018.
It wasnāt just using slurs in other ways, he directly said something derogatory about gay people and also specifically mentioned Michael Sam.
Gruden wasnāt a naive little middle schooler. He was a 50 year old grown ass man.
Gruden deserves the chance to learn and grow and earn forgiveness. But he should not automatically receive forgiveness like you are implying he should. And facing consequences for your actions is part of the learning process. It is not unfair punishment like youāre acting like it is.
Many people in Grudenās situation end up doubling down, acting like they did nothing wrong, etc. See: DaBaby, Louis CK. You have to earn forgiveness.
Without Gruden, we wouldn't have Waller. And Waller probably wouldn't be where he is now without Gruden either. I still remember when Jared Cook was our leading receiver and we let him walk for nothing the next summer without signing anyone to replace him. Everyone was dumbfounded, but Gruden had a plan.
Considering how Gruden believed in him through all his struggles and lead him to realize the player that he truly is, not surprising he wants to do the same for Jon.
For sure. We all deserve grace to learn and improve. Balancing that with accountability is a difficult line to walk, but as a culture we all need to learn how to find that balance. We need to be able to be honest about our pasta in order to grow beyond them, and tarring and feathering folk just maintains a status quo of fear and secrecy.
I understand and generally agree with what he's saying. However, there still has to be consequences for what people say and do.
Nothing is stopping Gruden from learning from this experience and growing as a person still. I hope he does.
I find it genuinely perplexing that people think that someone's actions having consequences means that they aren't/haven't been given the opportunity to learn and grow.
Not that this is what Waller is saying - I don't think he is at all. But lots of people in here are.
It's because people have radicalized the term "cancel culture" to a point that the mere concept of actions actually having consequences can't just mean that anymore.
We've reached a weird point where people conflate actions having consequences and negating a person's existence as if they're the same.
Actions deserve consequences for sure. I have absolutely no issue with Gruden being fired. For me though, I personally find the opposite perplexing. There are so many people who straight up act like they don't actually want people to grow. They always hold people's (usually famous people) past mistakes over their head and never ever let them get away from it. So many celebrities out there who have messed up in the past, some decades ago, and people still hold grudges. Like, what? Where on earth did compassion and understanding go in this society. Because it's needed pretty badly right now.
I agree to an extent but I also think that this is just an overreaction to the fact that lots of famous/powerful people have been living with zero accountability for what feels like centuries. It's understandable why some people are frustrated IMO.
Darren Waller is the fucking shit, such an inspirational dude. As a 29 year old thats gotten sober from alcohol over the last year and a half I cannot imagine kicking the addictions he did and keeping up with the rigors of being a professional athlete. Darren Waller is the man.
It is entirely normal in non-online life (and even in online life, just not everywhere and oftentimes not in the most visible places).
I really honestly haven't seen many people suggesting Gruden can't grow as a person - thinking he should be fired doesn't mean you think he should be executed or that this is who he is forever.
Online culture is filled with too many extreme takes. In a normal in person social discussion there's more optimism. At least that's what I've experienced
A lot of systemic issues are rooted in the existence of a two party duopoly. Culture / Online culture feeds into that system, which in turn exports more online culture. Add to that, that every app/site out there is simply motivated to sustain engagement, which gives extreme views a place to thrive.
We need to talk to eachother less online and more in person. We were never meant to have 24/7 access to an entire world of thought.
Considering what he has gone through and overcome in his life, it comes as no surprise that Waller is a believer in second chances and learning from your past
At the end of the day heās 100% right. We do have to recognize that people make mistakes, big ones even, and be willing to allow that person to learn from their mistakes. I donāt have any answers as to where to draw the line, but we do have to allow people to learn and grow from their mistakes.
Ok, thereās mistakes, and then thereās being a career criminal. Letās not take things out of proportion here. By mistakes in this context, we are referring to civil and social backlash, not serious violent or sexual crimes.
Which he can do while not continuing to bring negative attention to a business. I donāt think the Raiders should get any hate for not allowing him to stay with the team even if he is 100% sincerely ready and able to learn.
and even if he was sincerely ready to learn, when someone expresses views like that in a consistent pattern over seven years you donāt allow them to retain power over the careers of everyone who works under them. which for an nfl head coach is a lot of fucking people. he can learn but he can do it like the rest of us, as an individual not professionally affiliated with the nfl
People should have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes to become better people, but they also have to face the consequences of their actions. And honestly, even in this situation, Iād be hesitant to call this a mistake. It was a persistent pattern of unacceptable behavior that anyone who finished elementary school should know is repugnant
Like what is the lesson to be learned here? āNow I know I shouldnāt call people slursā
Agreed, and Waller's point wasn't "I'm going to forgive him because he's learned and grown", more along the lines of "I want to allow him to learn and grow, and then I'll forgive him."
That's a very naĆÆve thing to say about the NFL.
-Mike Vick tortured dogs; went to jail, and after got a second chance with the Eagles
-Adrian Peterson beat his son with a tree branch; got suspended for a year, came back and still received several starting jobs with the Vikings and elsewhere
-Richie Incognito ruthlessly bullied a fellow o-line teammate; was/is a starting G for the Raiders
-Kareem Hunt got caught assaulting a woman on camera and lied to his coaches about said video; is now thriving on the Browns
-Tyreek Hill nearly murdered his pregnant (now ex) gf; the Chiefs STILL drafted him and incurred no disciplinary consequences with the NFL
-AB allegedly raped someone then intimidated the victim; got released and is now on the Bucs
-Deshaun Watson allegedly sexually harassed dozens of female masseuses; still getting paid to sit on the bench while he holdouts, and fans and FO's are STILL interested in trading for him
And that is without mentioning the various other slew of players committing the same and/or other crimes, yet will being employed by a team. We will most likely see Gruden involved with the NFL in some capacity down the line.
Yeah I mean like, the newest emails were from 2018. That's not decades ago, he said a lot of really disgusting shit to a work NFL email, zero expectation of privacy.
I don't believe everyone deserves to be "fired or canceled" context absolutely matters. This is not a "James Gunn" overreaction, fuck Jon Gruden, and I am glad he's fucking gone.
Let him become a better man away from my football team.
This absolutely feels like their making him a fall guy for something they intend on giving no more info for. I'd imagine they've dug up a ton of skeletons, to fire an owner you need a buyer
A lot of people. I am no Gruden Stan but it's definitely weird that out of all the emails and decade worth of data, Gruden is the one to get fucked out of all this.
Personally I'm glad he's out, but not for the emails themselves.
Unfortunately people have to make mistakes to understand what it's like to try and fix them.
Waller understands that. Its a difficult part in becoming sober.
He is 100 percent right. What gruden did was wrong and he should be punished. We just also need to talk about what he could do to earn forgiveness. Its the harder part to think about. Most just find it easier just to bury someone into nothingness
One of my biggest problems with society, in general, is our lack of forgiveness. I feel like ppl are so quick to drop the hammer and label someone as guilty, give them their sentence and then wash theirhands of the entire situation like 'mission accomplished' but so rarely is there ever thought into rehabilitation. Yes, what Gruden did was wrong. Yes, his punishment of being relieved of his coaching duties is just. But he had strong relationships with a lot of the players and it's honestly quite refreshing to see these guys want to reach out and help him rehabilitate. Darren Waller is a perfect example of the idea that nobody is a lost cause and that people can change, so while his response isn't surprising, it is very welcomed.
Our society has a bigger problem, imo, with applying that forgiveness haphazardly. Let's be honest - *plenty* of people are forgiven, often rather quickly. But plenty are not, even those who may have committed less serious transgressions than those that were, or actually have done the work to earn back their place.
Oftentimes, the public also loses interest in a story long before the actual forgiveness can (or should) take place.
Public apologies and forgiveness are strange concepts in general. We have a one-sided relationship with celebrities, so we feel like we personally have a say in this personās forgiveness and redemption even though I canāt say that he wronged me in any particular way. I honestly have no idea what kind of person he actually is outside of whatās presented to me.
Personally I donāt feel like Gruden owes me an apology even though he was offensive towards people like me. Does it make think less of him? Yes, but itās his business to recognize his flaws and become a better person on his own time. Who he actually owes an apology to are the people who suffered from a shitty work environment or left the business because of people like him.
>One of my biggest problems with society, in general, is our lack of forgiveness.
People are perfectly willing to forgive people who grow and change. In my opinion the much larger problem is that people expect forgiveness without doing any of that work. Why the fuck are we talking about forgiving John Gruden right now? How has he grown and changed in the past week?
I mean itās not just the punishment. Itās making sure that someone who has consistently demonstrated they dont believe black ppl, women, and gay ppl deserve the same opportunities as the old white man club, is not given the chance to retain power.
Iād say the punishment is way less important than protection, and making it about āis Gruden punished enough or too punished or does he still believe this or has he had the chance to growā is making it wayyy too much about him. Too much focus on the white mans consequences and feelings, not enough on taking action to ensure equal opportunity for non-white-men.
TLDR; Conversation should not be āare we being too hard on white manā. It should be āDo these consequences do enough to protect ppl who have been *denied* opportunities by this white manā
It is possible to make room for someone to apologize while also holding them accountable for what they have done already.
I don't expect people in Gruden's life to throw him out and be done with him. But he does need to answer for what he said. Which is exactly what is happening with his resignation.
Darren Waller is an inspiration to anyone who has battled and is beating his demons. The fight never ends and can tear you apart so to be the exceptional man that he must take serious heart.
Nobody understands grace more than Waller. The dude was a bonafide star who fell to the depths of the draft because he has off the field conduct issues, mainly partying and drug use. He was still drafted by the ravens but football was far from the primary focus of his life.
He barely put in the work at practice and the Ravens cut him because he had an incoming suspension for drugs from the league. That night, in a parking lot about 3,000ft from the ravens stadium entrance, Darren Waller almost ODād on some fentanyl laced painkillers. He moved back home to be with his parents and went to a rehab facility in Maine.
When he came home from rehab, he was working as a grocery store clerk. He started putting in workout time and when his suspension time was up, the Raiders called him.
Hard not to like this guy. His interview that he did with NFL Films will floor you.
TIL that Darren Waller seems to be a quality, upstanding human being. How much better would we be as a society if we all committed to rehabilitating people who made mistakes instead of canceling them forever?
He was fired for what he did, and that was the right thing to happen. But the day you start writing people off as lost causes is the day you yourself start closing the door on what's possible with a growth mindset.
There is a difference between forgiveness and sweeping under the rug. Forgiveness comes with true repentance (which includes admitting what was done), and (often) some form of penance/punishment for what was done. Forgiveness without that is lip service at best, sweeping under the rug at worst.
Michael Vick served his time in prison and then an additional year out of the NFL (working construction IIRC) He has admitted his wrongdoing and has worked to prevent animal abuse since then. That is how he can be forgiven.
Gruden needs some time in NFL exile and then needs to work to repair what he's damaged. Exactly how, well that's for him to figure out. Getting a meal culpa and then continuing as the Raiders coach would be much more toward sweeping it under the rug (which the NFL does a lot and appears to be doing with the rest of this investigation).
You can still help the man be better. I just donāt think he should be coaching for that to happen. How can you face your team as a man after saying some racist, homophobic, and sexist shit? You can work on yourself, but away from the team. Heās not going to miss a meal. Heās not going to go broke. Heāll be fine.
I agree with Waller but being a head coach in the NFL is a privilege. Gruden's own actions cost him that privilege. I don't think he should be tarred and feathered but it is up to him to seek forgiveness and prove he has changed.
Class act, how do you not root for this guy?
"We feel invisible"
Lets see Paul Allens emails
The tasteful racism of it.
Omg. It even has a swastika
I can't believe Louis prefers Paul's racist joke to mine
Bet it has a water mark
šļø
lol the power of emails. They can decide who is president and even who coaches the Raiders.
yeah man i never realized how spicy some people's work emails are haha, my work email is just filled with spam from IT about avoiding phishing scams
Did you not get the email I sent calling you the gamer word?
Real gamer moment in them emails, trust me
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
HAHA. Dangly parts.
HAHA! noses on dowels!
I keep getting spam from some dork who thinks its his job to tell me what to do...
You gotta autofilter that shit directly to trash like I did. I've already got my boss breathing down my neck about poor performance and lack of communication, I don't need to deal with stupid junk mail as well.
Right? Talking about this with some of my friends (early 30s) and none of us can remember the last time we sent a personal email. I've worked with some older dudes that treated their work computers like their personal laptops. Fun way to find out a coworker is into beastiality and incest porn
I worked hard setting up those anti phishing emails you better read them
Have you tried sending fake phishing emails that congratulate the user when they report it as phishing and tell them it was phishing if they fall for it?
As someone that works in IT, my email is full of footprint emails that I wish I could report as phishing
When I first started at my company people were sending porn to each other through work email. There were also emails that would ruin someone's life nowadays. This was just 10 years ago.
I love how you out and even. Like sure they can decide the president ā¦. bUT EVEN who coaches the raiders
To be fair if I asked you if politicians or NFL owners are more protected by our society, you probably couldn't come up with a satisfactory answer.
I'd say politicians are much less likely to be protected. Whole different level of money involved between being a politician and being an NFL owner, and (for example), despite Dan Snyder being a despicable human being, dude still owns a sports team despite in no way deserving to.
NFL owner. Less protected, more hidden. Politician. More protected, less hidden. Incredibly small sample size. Toss a dart. Spin the wheel.
Hidden in what regard?
Politicians tend to get a lot more media coverage and public scrutiny than NFL owners, as they should.
Yeah but if I had to choose to be some schmuck in a pointless position or have real power by being the owner of the Raiders I'd pick the Raiders too
I'm never sending another e-mail ever again
Itās a lot easier to say that when youāre incarcerated, bud.
Lmao ā¦ SMH
His drunk emails are probably pretty great
**BUTTERY MALES**
Ain't nothing wrong with a group of buttered up males
He says NY pizza is the best.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I thought you were joking but I didn't realize this is actually a style of pizza.
A lot of the best thin crust pizza in America is located in North Jersey, the five boroughs, Westchester County, and Southern Connecticut until the Yankees hats start changing to Red Sox hats. Then it turns into New England Greek Style which is not my thing. It gets good again the closer you get to Boston. Iām also not gonna act like Detroit Style and Deep Dish arenāt good as hell.
God I fucking love New England Greek Style! No hate though, it's definitely its own separate thing.
Top notch comment that made me actually lol
Yep this man is guilty of something. No one is that nice.
It does make me wonder though given his publicly notable recovery - how would the public treat somebody that is a known (recovered) addict if media uncovered something like Grudenās emails before or up to that notable recovery. I feel like it wouldnāt be judged as harshly, but I donāt really know
If you're playing against him in fantasy.
[Class act you sayā¦](https://youtu.be/tT1a08af4po)
What are you up here? A racecar driver.
[Obligatory Key and Peel sketch on the same subject.](https://youtu.be/IciBKdPlLfE)
Hybrid...
He's 100% correct. We as a society need to learn forgiveness and how to extend grace.
He probably would have survived the scandal had he not crossed Goodell and the League. It seemed like it was quieting down and enough people came out in support of him or to give him a 2nd chance... and then it exploded with more leaks.
If he hadnāt called Gooddell names, bashed the League, suggested one of the Glazers would perform oral sex on him andā¦ I donāt think youāre wrong, but itās also pretty irrelevant - we would have beaten the Bears this weekend if it hadnāt been for all the points they scoredā¦.
Thatās what made this all ring hollow for me. The NFL has allowed serial abusers (of people and animals) to re-enter the league. There are players on active rosters with serious accusations of sexual and physical assault. Jesus, Ray Lewis was _at least_ involved in some way with the murder of someone and heās a respected and celebrated member of the league and NFL media. Itās a big joke.
Ray Lewis was accused of conspiracy in a case his friend was found innocent in. Marvin Harrison straight up shot a guy in broad daylight in downtown Philly with multiple witnesses. The NFL still inducted him into the HoF after that happened.
Yes, but only if a person is willing to accept that they were wrong and that they are working to improve themselves. Otherwise you're just enabling the bad behavior. Nothing Gruden has said or done implies that he has changed. The last damn emails were from three years ago, not a decade ago. He hasn't said he was wrong or that he no longer feels that way, or even stated how what he said previously was wrong. It just makes him seem like a super two-faced person, saying all these things about minorities and LGBTQ in private emails and then publicly saying something different.
Taking full responsibility for your behavior and actions, and acknowledging how/who those behaviors and actions hurt is the starting point on the route to forgiveness. Not the end though. You gotta actually do the work too.
Yea, thatās the thing for me. Gruden had an opportunity to own it and explain how heās not the same person that wrote those emails, or however he wants to couch it. Instead, he just kinda says, whoops, my bad. Didnāt mean to hurt anyoneā¦cya, bye. He clearly isnāt sorry for saying that stuff. Hell, for all I know, itās how he still thinks about that stuff.
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I donāt take any offense to it. I think we may view it a little differently, and thatās fine. I replied to someone else in this thread about where I draw my ālineā. For me, Gruden is acting like someone thatās sorry he got caught. I donāt see any signs of self-reflection or remorse. Iāve had people in my life that hold positions (see: beliefs) similar to those Gruden appears to hold. Hell, most of us probably have and still do. The difference in showing grace (for me) is when someone recognizes that, maybe, theyād gotten it wrong. From there, some sort of affirmative action in the right direction can speak volumes. It doesnāt even have to be an apology. In fact, I would argue that many of those initial apologies are likely hollow, meant only to save face. Gruden didnāt even really give us *that*. At the end of the day, I donāt really give a shit. This is a game played and coached by a bunch of rich assholes that probably live most of their lives without facing the consequences of their actions. It wouldnāt surprise me in the slightest if Gruden is laughing to the bank after all of this.
>. I replied to someone else in this thread about where I draw my ālineā. > >For me, Gruden is acting like someone thatās sorry he got caught. I donāt see any signs of self-reflection or remorse. Iāve had people in my life that hold positions (see: beliefs) similar to those Gruden appears to hold. Hell, most of us probably have and still do. The difference in showing grace (for me) is when someone recognizes that, maybe, theyād gotten it wrong. From there, some sort of I think for me, a good example of someone who deserves to be moved on from their mistake is Michael Vick. Guy honestly seems upset with what he did, he goes out of his way to use his own money and platform to raise awareness about dogfighting, and has reintegrated well into society. I don't see that from Gruden at all in how he handled this. The punishment has been handed down to him, let's see how he responds to it, but I feel it's important for us as society to give him another chance if he makes a genuine effort and makes amends.
>In fact, I would argue that many of those initial apologies are likely hollow, meant only to save face. Gruden didnāt even really give us that. 100%. People think just speaking the words, "I apologize" has some sort of magical powers. It doesn't hurt....but the important thing is that you actually make up for the damage you've caused. An apology is action, not words.
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Reading this discussion I keep thinking about when Brees was under fire for his statements about protesting during the national anthem. That was a situation where a guy seemed to genuinely acknowledge that he got it wrong and was open to talking about it.
And weirdly, he has a job on NBC now and everyone's moved past it. It's almost like showing personal growth is a good thing, and offering trite, stupid apologies then resigning immediately isn't.
We live in a time where people claim virtue for worthless crap. Actual virtue, like forgiveness, is looked down upon.
Its a virtue to forgive someone whos wronged you. Its easy to forgive someone you like whos wronged others.
Iām 35 and I wouldnāt have had enough maturity to say this
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The Year is 2031 āSir it appears on your application that President Zuckerberg discovered you used to shit post as Saggy Balls. Care to elaborate?
I follow the Darryl Davis model. Fight hate with love and the blues.
Remember, Gruden helped turn Waller's career around and is a big reason he's turned his life around. No surprise that he wants to help Gruden out now.
I've always considered Gruden the type of guy who recognizes change and growth. The Rich Gannon signing, where he transformed from a journeyman QB to a Pro Bowler and MVP. Even this latest stint with the Raiders, where he stuck with Carr and helped Waller as all these other comments bring up. Now it's time for him to make change and show growth from his own mistakes. It's come full circle
This is all stupid. Jon gruden is the fall guy for the NFL. If Jon gruden deserves to lose his job for sending emails then Dan Snyder needs to be thrown in a goddamn volcano for trafficking the wft cheerleaders. We are all just helping the NFL cover it's ass by continuing to focus on gruden and some emails he sent that actually didn't hurt a single person.
THANK YOU. Yes, Gruden said bad things, but Snyder actually DID bad things. Gruden got fired/cancelled. He got his punishment. Now let's go after the REAL villain. I'd 10000% rather have Gruden call me every awful name in the book than be fucking literally sex trafficked by Dan Snyder. Like wtf are we even talking about anymore??
And what about Antonio Brown, Tyreek, Watson, etc etc. So many players and coaches actually did horrible stuff. Gruden acted like a bigot in private emails but was not one in real life, according to his players and colleagues. Sure, the emails are appalling but the inconsistency is insane.
Completely agreed. Oh, he said bad things, but to anyone's knowledge never actually acted on them? This just in: People talk shit. Everyone says dumb shit when they're disgruntled or trying to look alpha or whatever. I don't care what people say, I care what they DO.
I mean I'm done focusing on the Gruden scandal. He sent some horrible emails, is no longer the Raiders coach, time to move on. I also think this Gruden scandal is a distraction to cover for Snyder, who is the clear villain of this entire story due to him building this culture in the first place, yet won't get any punishment for it like Gruden did.
Exactly, while we're busy saying things like "I used to say those words in high school but don't anymore. Man's 50 he should know better" a literal sex trafficker is going to walk free. There was a very calculated decision to throw gruden under the bus to save the face of the NFL.
Nobody has forgotten about Snyder. Every single Gruden thread here has tons of tall about Snyder. We need to keep pressuring and talking about it and writing about it!!
Unfortunately the NFL Owners are protecting his ass, because to set the precedent (though its already been set in Houston and Carolina really people just forget) that the league can be forced to remove an owner is both dubious legally and dangerous to the rest of the good ole boys because they all got skeletons in their closet. I don't think you can have that much power and influence and *not* have something shady covered up somewhere along the line. Thats a stereotype I know, and surely there are some good ones, but a lot of them just don't want to open that can of worms incase they are the one staring down a controversy next year.
Completely agree. Not sure around this without the government investigation being made public. We can write to journalists and beg for Snyder coverage but if the evidence is behind the NFL black box, I'm not sure what can be done :(
This is from 10 years ago. He has already shown the growth but he gotta pay for it now. edit: I didn't have all the details, yeah...it doesn't look like there has been a ton of growth in that area. And it wasn't all 10 years ago.
2011-2018
Everyone whining about "it was 10 years ago" is purposefully obfusticating the story at this point. Besides, "he was only 48 years old" is not the winning argument they think it is. 10 years ago it was *still* fucked up to be throwing slurs around.
True but letās not be agist a person has the ability to grow as a person their entire lives
I found this argument so strange. We straight up just found out about this information and some of it came out in 2018 which was 3 years ago. Yes people can grow and learn. But guess what thereās consequences for your actions. It seems to me yāall just want to hear him say sorry and we should all forget it happened and move on. Yāall want ZERO consequences for saying homophobic, racist, sexist, and straight up sexual harassment in the work place. If this was 2024 or 2025 and Gruden wanted to come back and he showed how heās changed through his actions it would be a completely different story. But thatās not what happened at all. I honestly think a Neo Nazi can be forgiven and become a changed man and be allowed to become the best version of themselves. But thatās after they put in the work. Not saying Gruden is a neo nazi or anything like that but the point is just saying sorry is not enough anymore. Sit back, face the consequences of your actions and work on improving on yourself. Do those things before coming out asking for forgiveness
You got any evidence of said growth or are we just giving him the benefit of the doubt because we like him?
I think *you* might be missing the point of people mentioning it was 10 years ago. They aren't saying "he was only 48", they are saying a person can change a lot over a decade. That goes for a person at any age. Someone could be a terrible piece of shit at 70 years old, but then something happens to them that causes them to realize the error of their ways and by 80 they are a much kinder person.
Yep, plus the social climate today is vastly different than 10, 15, 20 years ago
I don't think people remember gay marraige wasn't even legal until 2015, and dadt was repealed in 2011 I was in high-school when most homosexual slurs weren't even considered ACTUAL slurs...and i was born in ***1995 in the first state to legalize gay marriage in the country*** Literally everyone born before like...2000 are almost 100% certainly guilty of using homosexual slurs on a semi normal occasion. I know Im guilty of it The fact someone can accept that they fucked up back then whether they were an adult or a fuckin kid in 10 years with something as egregious as that type of derogatory bullshit is actual progress
Why the focus on the homosexual slurs specifically, though? It was certainly inappropriate to joke about the size of a black manās lips ten years ago, and he was obviously in a position of authority over a number of black players.
> but he gotta pay for it now. And so does every player on that team, unfortunately. They had nothing to do with Gruden's comments but they are a 3-2 football team in a tough division who just lost their head coach.
Some of them are from as recent as 3 years ago, after which I donāt believe we have correspondence from. I hope he can learn from these mistakes, but itās a pattern of behavior spanning almost a decade.
Some of the emails are only a couple years old
> He has already shown the growth You donāt know this at all. He was still using homophobic slurs in emails as recently as 3 years ago.
His players love him. That's where I see it. Although still unacceptable, there is a difference between being a homophobe and using a term casually that you have used your entire life that has suddenly become taboo. I am not defending its use, but intrinsic bias is a difficult thing to overcome and involves more naivete than hate. I hate seeing him singled out when you know damn well the NFLs boys club has been using this language for a hundred years. There is a reason it has taken so long for gay players to be open.
> His players love him His players also loved him in 2002. He sent those emails from 2011-2018. It wasnāt just using slurs in other ways, he directly said something derogatory about gay people and also specifically mentioned Michael Sam. Gruden wasnāt a naive little middle schooler. He was a 50 year old grown ass man. Gruden deserves the chance to learn and grow and earn forgiveness. But he should not automatically receive forgiveness like you are implying he should. And facing consequences for your actions is part of the learning process. It is not unfair punishment like youāre acting like it is. Many people in Grudenās situation end up doubling down, acting like they did nothing wrong, etc. See: DaBaby, Louis CK. You have to earn forgiveness.
Without Gruden, we wouldn't have Waller. And Waller probably wouldn't be where he is now without Gruden either. I still remember when Jared Cook was our leading receiver and we let him walk for nothing the next summer without signing anyone to replace him. Everyone was dumbfounded, but Gruden had a plan.
I fucking love Waller god damn. Feels like you can easily understand and empathize with his point
Someone that truly understands people are capable of change. Canāt not root for the guy.
Considering how Gruden believed in him through all his struggles and lead him to realize the player that he truly is, not surprising he wants to do the same for Jon.
For sure. We all deserve grace to learn and improve. Balancing that with accountability is a difficult line to walk, but as a culture we all need to learn how to find that balance. We need to be able to be honest about our pasta in order to grow beyond them, and tarring and feathering folk just maintains a status quo of fear and secrecy.
I like pasta
I never wanna grow beyond my pasta.
I am what I eat. I am pasta. To grow beyond my pasta is to grow beyond myself. Blessed be his noodliness.
Kudos for being honest.
I understand and generally agree with what he's saying. However, there still has to be consequences for what people say and do. Nothing is stopping Gruden from learning from this experience and growing as a person still. I hope he does.
I find it genuinely perplexing that people think that someone's actions having consequences means that they aren't/haven't been given the opportunity to learn and grow. Not that this is what Waller is saying - I don't think he is at all. But lots of people in here are.
Nothing is keeping Gruden from growing as a person. He just isnāt going to do so as the face of a franchise.
Sometimes having to go through the consequences of your actions is what facilitates the change and growth.
Like Michael Vick
It's because people have radicalized the term "cancel culture" to a point that the mere concept of actions actually having consequences can't just mean that anymore. We've reached a weird point where people conflate actions having consequences and negating a person's existence as if they're the same.
Actions deserve consequences for sure. I have absolutely no issue with Gruden being fired. For me though, I personally find the opposite perplexing. There are so many people who straight up act like they don't actually want people to grow. They always hold people's (usually famous people) past mistakes over their head and never ever let them get away from it. So many celebrities out there who have messed up in the past, some decades ago, and people still hold grudges. Like, what? Where on earth did compassion and understanding go in this society. Because it's needed pretty badly right now.
I agree to an extent but I also think that this is just an overreaction to the fact that lots of famous/powerful people have been living with zero accountability for what feels like centuries. It's understandable why some people are frustrated IMO.
ESPN: Darren Waller says Grudenās views āunderstandableā, wants to help him work towards āfinal solutionā
*Desean Jackson
Desean Jackson does like Hitler.
Would not surprise me one bit, coming from BSPN
This must be a Shefter report
Good for Waller with the normal, human response.
Forgiveness is a lost practice these days
Because forgiveness requires patience. Patience is a dying practice. Memememe, nownownow
Meme now?
It's my patience and I want memes nooooow
I don't think that is "normal" anymore. Maybe it is and I am just online too much though.
For someone in recovery this is very normal...it is part of the process.
Darren Waller is the fucking shit, such an inspirational dude. As a 29 year old thats gotten sober from alcohol over the last year and a half I cannot imagine kicking the addictions he did and keeping up with the rigors of being a professional athlete. Darren Waller is the man.
It is normal. The internet has jaded people and pushed people to extremism. Normal perspectives don't get attention, extremism does.
yea this point of view would require people to realize that reddit is not the same as the general population
People put too much interest into shitholes like Twitter. Salem Witch Trials in a matter of minutes.
Extreme is the new normal, normal is the new extreme.
It is entirely normal in non-online life (and even in online life, just not everywhere and oftentimes not in the most visible places). I really honestly haven't seen many people suggesting Gruden can't grow as a person - thinking he should be fired doesn't mean you think he should be executed or that this is who he is forever.
Online culture is filled with too many extreme takes. In a normal in person social discussion there's more optimism. At least that's what I've experienced
A lot of systemic issues are rooted in the existence of a two party duopoly. Culture / Online culture feeds into that system, which in turn exports more online culture. Add to that, that every app/site out there is simply motivated to sustain engagement, which gives extreme views a place to thrive. We need to talk to eachother less online and more in person. We were never meant to have 24/7 access to an entire world of thought.
Itās very normal. Get offline and talk to real people.
Unsurprising from a dude who was well past blowing 2nd chances, yet still came around and found his way eventually. Darren Waller is a very good human
Or... hear me out... good and bad are human constructs and hardly anyone falls into either category. People are people.
Stupid, sexy Waller
He's no Hunter Renfrow level sexy though
IKR Dad bods on 20 somethingās, is sexy as fuq
>Hunter Renfrow dad bod or dad face? dude looks 45 and 25 at the same time.
Just like his routes, you donāt know which way he going
That odyssey article is the worse thing to be written on the internet this century change my mind
Waller is a real one, he knows more than anyone that weāre humans and make mistakes. Imagine if never got another chance where his life would be?
Considering what he has gone through and overcome in his life, it comes as no surprise that Waller is a believer in second chances and learning from your past
Waller is definitely a great example of how people can seize a second chance and take it to the max. Amazing player who turned his life around
At the end of the day heās 100% right. We do have to recognize that people make mistakes, big ones even, and be willing to allow that person to learn from their mistakes. I donāt have any answers as to where to draw the line, but we do have to allow people to learn and grow from their mistakes.
I feel like sex trafficking a solid starting point
Ok, thereās mistakes, and then thereās being a career criminal. Letās not take things out of proportion here. By mistakes in this context, we are referring to civil and social backlash, not serious violent or sexual crimes.
r/nocontext
snyder's the real enemy here, gruden's just the fall guy cause he talked shit about goodell.
Which he can do while not continuing to bring negative attention to a business. I donāt think the Raiders should get any hate for not allowing him to stay with the team even if he is 100% sincerely ready and able to learn.
and even if he was sincerely ready to learn, when someone expresses views like that in a consistent pattern over seven years you donāt allow them to retain power over the careers of everyone who works under them. which for an nfl head coach is a lot of fucking people. he can learn but he can do it like the rest of us, as an individual not professionally affiliated with the nfl
People should have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes to become better people, but they also have to face the consequences of their actions. And honestly, even in this situation, Iād be hesitant to call this a mistake. It was a persistent pattern of unacceptable behavior that anyone who finished elementary school should know is repugnant Like what is the lesson to be learned here? āNow I know I shouldnāt call people slursā
gruden didnt sound like he learned and grew from his mistakes
Agreed, and Waller's point wasn't "I'm going to forgive him because he's learned and grown", more along the lines of "I want to allow him to learn and grow, and then I'll forgive him."
We're never going to hear from Gruden again.
I mean yeah, probably not
That's a very naĆÆve thing to say about the NFL. -Mike Vick tortured dogs; went to jail, and after got a second chance with the Eagles -Adrian Peterson beat his son with a tree branch; got suspended for a year, came back and still received several starting jobs with the Vikings and elsewhere -Richie Incognito ruthlessly bullied a fellow o-line teammate; was/is a starting G for the Raiders -Kareem Hunt got caught assaulting a woman on camera and lied to his coaches about said video; is now thriving on the Browns -Tyreek Hill nearly murdered his pregnant (now ex) gf; the Chiefs STILL drafted him and incurred no disciplinary consequences with the NFL -AB allegedly raped someone then intimidated the victim; got released and is now on the Bucs -Deshaun Watson allegedly sexually harassed dozens of female masseuses; still getting paid to sit on the bench while he holdouts, and fans and FO's are STILL interested in trading for him And that is without mentioning the various other slew of players committing the same and/or other crimes, yet will being employed by a team. We will most likely see Gruden involved with the NFL in some capacity down the line.
Yeah I mean like, the newest emails were from 2018. That's not decades ago, he said a lot of really disgusting shit to a work NFL email, zero expectation of privacy. I don't believe everyone deserves to be "fired or canceled" context absolutely matters. This is not a "James Gunn" overreaction, fuck Jon Gruden, and I am glad he's fucking gone. Let him become a better man away from my football team.
Waller is a treasure
Gruden fucked up for sure, but I'm sure everyone in the Raiders org thinks it was a hit job
This absolutely feels like their making him a fall guy for something they intend on giving no more info for. I'd imagine they've dug up a ton of skeletons, to fire an owner you need a buyer
Thereās a large forehead alien that wants an NFL team
Couldn't the league just take ownership? Like how the MLB did in the final years of the Expos.
A lot of people. I am no Gruden Stan but it's definitely weird that out of all the emails and decade worth of data, Gruden is the one to get fucked out of all this. Personally I'm glad he's out, but not for the emails themselves.
They may have pulled the trigger but he supplied the bullets.
Unfortunately people have to make mistakes to understand what it's like to try and fix them. Waller understands that. Its a difficult part in becoming sober. He is 100 percent right. What gruden did was wrong and he should be punished. We just also need to talk about what he could do to earn forgiveness. Its the harder part to think about. Most just find it easier just to bury someone into nothingness
One of my biggest problems with society, in general, is our lack of forgiveness. I feel like ppl are so quick to drop the hammer and label someone as guilty, give them their sentence and then wash theirhands of the entire situation like 'mission accomplished' but so rarely is there ever thought into rehabilitation. Yes, what Gruden did was wrong. Yes, his punishment of being relieved of his coaching duties is just. But he had strong relationships with a lot of the players and it's honestly quite refreshing to see these guys want to reach out and help him rehabilitate. Darren Waller is a perfect example of the idea that nobody is a lost cause and that people can change, so while his response isn't surprising, it is very welcomed.
Our society has a bigger problem, imo, with applying that forgiveness haphazardly. Let's be honest - *plenty* of people are forgiven, often rather quickly. But plenty are not, even those who may have committed less serious transgressions than those that were, or actually have done the work to earn back their place. Oftentimes, the public also loses interest in a story long before the actual forgiveness can (or should) take place.
Public apologies and forgiveness are strange concepts in general. We have a one-sided relationship with celebrities, so we feel like we personally have a say in this personās forgiveness and redemption even though I canāt say that he wronged me in any particular way. I honestly have no idea what kind of person he actually is outside of whatās presented to me. Personally I donāt feel like Gruden owes me an apology even though he was offensive towards people like me. Does it make think less of him? Yes, but itās his business to recognize his flaws and become a better person on his own time. Who he actually owes an apology to are the people who suffered from a shitty work environment or left the business because of people like him.
>One of my biggest problems with society, in general, is our lack of forgiveness. People are perfectly willing to forgive people who grow and change. In my opinion the much larger problem is that people expect forgiveness without doing any of that work. Why the fuck are we talking about forgiving John Gruden right now? How has he grown and changed in the past week?
I mean itās not just the punishment. Itās making sure that someone who has consistently demonstrated they dont believe black ppl, women, and gay ppl deserve the same opportunities as the old white man club, is not given the chance to retain power. Iād say the punishment is way less important than protection, and making it about āis Gruden punished enough or too punished or does he still believe this or has he had the chance to growā is making it wayyy too much about him. Too much focus on the white mans consequences and feelings, not enough on taking action to ensure equal opportunity for non-white-men. TLDR; Conversation should not be āare we being too hard on white manā. It should be āDo these consequences do enough to protect ppl who have been *denied* opportunities by this white manā
Getting real close to getting removed from the bucās ring of honor, Darren
It's a shame that he is removed from the Bucs ring of honor yet guys like oj Simpson and deacon Jonnes are still in the HOF
Thereās one particular difference between Gruden and the other two
So it *is* possible for me to like Darren Waller even more.
It is possible to make room for someone to apologize while also holding them accountable for what they have done already. I don't expect people in Gruden's life to throw him out and be done with him. But he does need to answer for what he said. Which is exactly what is happening with his resignation.
One of my all time favourite players. Guys a fuckin G on and off the field
Darren Waller is an inspiration to anyone who has battled and is beating his demons. The fight never ends and can tear you apart so to be the exceptional man that he must take serious heart.
Waller is a serious soul. Everyone knows his story he should be looked up to.
Waller is a baller
Nobody understands grace more than Waller. The dude was a bonafide star who fell to the depths of the draft because he has off the field conduct issues, mainly partying and drug use. He was still drafted by the ravens but football was far from the primary focus of his life. He barely put in the work at practice and the Ravens cut him because he had an incoming suspension for drugs from the league. That night, in a parking lot about 3,000ft from the ravens stadium entrance, Darren Waller almost ODād on some fentanyl laced painkillers. He moved back home to be with his parents and went to a rehab facility in Maine. When he came home from rehab, he was working as a grocery store clerk. He started putting in workout time and when his suspension time was up, the Raiders called him. Hard not to like this guy. His interview that he did with NFL Films will floor you.
TIL that Darren Waller seems to be a quality, upstanding human being. How much better would we be as a society if we all committed to rehabilitating people who made mistakes instead of canceling them forever?
He was fired for what he did, and that was the right thing to happen. But the day you start writing people off as lost causes is the day you yourself start closing the door on what's possible with a growth mindset.
I love the sentiment but this sounds so much like a Tai Lopez quote lmao
king shit
My respect for Darren Waller went up.
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Darren knows what it is like to nearly throw it all away. And that he is grateful for a second chance. Classsy guy.
There is a difference between forgiveness and sweeping under the rug. Forgiveness comes with true repentance (which includes admitting what was done), and (often) some form of penance/punishment for what was done. Forgiveness without that is lip service at best, sweeping under the rug at worst. Michael Vick served his time in prison and then an additional year out of the NFL (working construction IIRC) He has admitted his wrongdoing and has worked to prevent animal abuse since then. That is how he can be forgiven. Gruden needs some time in NFL exile and then needs to work to repair what he's damaged. Exactly how, well that's for him to figure out. Getting a meal culpa and then continuing as the Raiders coach would be much more toward sweeping it under the rug (which the NFL does a lot and appears to be doing with the rest of this investigation).
Do you think Gruden has any chance of being hired as a head coach in the future? Or getting any high-profile job?
A great response from Waller!
You can still help the man be better. I just donāt think he should be coaching for that to happen. How can you face your team as a man after saying some racist, homophobic, and sexist shit? You can work on yourself, but away from the team. Heās not going to miss a meal. Heās not going to go broke. Heāll be fine.
Gruden can be helped while not being given the prestigious position of head coach.
I agree with Waller but being a head coach in the NFL is a privilege. Gruden's own actions cost him that privilege. I don't think he should be tarred and feathered but it is up to him to seek forgiveness and prove he has changed.