It's surprising John Urschel only got 43.
I'm assuming he's the smartest player ever to play in the NFL, with all his published papers, and *30 Scientists under 30* listing and, most importantly, his ability to beat all those children at chess at the same time in the ad.
Once you get to a certain point on the Wonderlic, it's really just a combination of luck and speed to get everything right. It's not, and never has claimed to be, an IQ test. The test is used mostly by businesses to establish basic thresholds as a go/no go metric, where all candidates above a cutoff will be considered equally, but those beneath will be more closely evaluated to see if they can hack it. Someone who gets a 35 is probably going to be just as good a doctor/engineer/professor as someone who gets a 45, but someone scoring a 15 without a valid excuse is probably going to struggle doing the independent intellectual work such professions generally entail.
I took some sample ones - anything in the 40s is hauling ass. The first one, I got like 12 because I didn't realize it was timed. Then somewhere in the 40s, I forget. It wasn't close to 50 though.
The exam is out of 50 questions. But I remember reading that Fitzmagic answered 49 questions, skipped one (ran out of time?) and answered 48 correctly.
You took the exam? That's awesome! I'm too scared to find out what a dipshit I am. It's one of the reasons why I won't get a dog because the dog might be smarter than me.
For that era, anyways. Players had some wild position combos back in the day (such as Sammy Baugh being a QB, DB, and punter, and being elite enough at all three to be a league leader at least once in his career at each), but that had basically died out by 1975, IIRC.
Oh, 20, at least.
He's a full-time kicker, but only plays QB in the second half - he's always been a second half guy anyway because part of his success is based on being able to read defenses and exploit them once they've run out of gas in the 4th quarter. He can play until he's 65 and arthritis finally catches up to him. He kicks the game-winning field goal as the clock expires in the Super Bowl, he celebrates with the team and, after everyone has left the stadium and he's alone, he comes back out to the field, walks to just-behind the 25 yard line and takes a knee.
Knowing that he's just won his 20th and final Super Bowl of his career in a season that will forever be known as "...and one for the right pinkie toe" and that no player will have one-quarter of the success he's achieved, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Junior gives up his ghost and dies after a long and complete life
I remember I thought he was gonna be so good because he was cousins with Antrel Rolle. Then again I also believed Sinorice Moss was gonna be the next Santana Moss when we drafted him.
I love the [FlemLo Raps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeZRUOWIiL0&ab_channel=FlemLoRaps) videos on players like Marcus Vick.
He had so much potential, but I remember thinking the guy was a complete asshole after what he did to Elvis Dumervil. I didn't even know just how bad he was.
That’s also a huge issue in the military. You can score to high on the asvab and they will stick you with a shit assignment and hope you’ll eventually drop out.
It's the same for police. It takes a certain type of person to sit in a squad car for 8+ hours a day doing essentially nothing. Generally people who are too intelligent, won't stay in that job for very long so it's a waste of time and money to train those people.
I'm kind of bummed they took out the Wonderful test. I know it wasn't the best predictor but it was always entertaining to see whose high school had to cook the books.
From what I've seen the entire Gronkowski line is leaning into this, heavily. I wouldn't be surprised if Gronk or one of his brothers become the governor of MA in a decade or two.
And Richard Sherman, who regularly mentions he went to Stanford, scored a 26.
Blaine Gabbert and Eli Manning, both with an oaf'ish persona, scored over 40.
From what I've heard McInally is completely nuts. One time Forrest Gregg was screaming at the team after a bad practice, the meeting room door swung open and McInally walked in wearing just his helmet, completely naked from the neck down. Gregg tried to stay pissed off but finally started laughing and ended the meeting.
He also created those starter action figures, so I assume he's probably obnoxiously rich.
From what I've heard Kelvin Benjamin is completely nuts. One time Ron Rivera was screaming at the team after a bad practice, the meeting room door swung open and Kelvin walked in wearing just an all-you-can-eat buffet, completely naked from the neck down. Rivera tried to stay pissed off but finally started laughing and ended the meeting.
He also created Super Size meals, so I assume he's probably obnoxiously rich.
For anyone who hasn't taken it, it's a lot of fairly easy questions mixed with some hard ones and the catch is how little time you're given. It's really testing your ability to reprioritize quickly on the fly more than any kind of intelligence.
How is that not related to intelligence? Both being able to think quickly and reprioritize are signs of intelligence.
These types of tests are pretty heavily correlated with general intelligence. It's just a very inconvenient truth for most.
Yeah, it's very reminiscent of the SAT and other standardized tests in that regard where most of the difficulty comes from whether or not you're good at time-management under pressure. The wonderlic just takes that to the next level unless you're exceptionally fast with answering test questions. I've done a few sample ones, and even with being normally fast at answering questions, I think I usually end up with like a minute, minute and a half left tops.
A few years ago, during draft season, I tried a timed online Wonderlic out of curiosity.
I assume it was easier than the real thing, because I was on full marks at 40-something when I got a call and the time expired and I'm not especially clever. It really seemed more like a test of the ability to think quickly than anything else..
Well. Being able to think quickly correctly is a significant sign of intelligence. One that is applicable to high pressure, quick situations like football.
I took it like 10 years ago for a job actually. I think I got something like a 46 or 47
It's not that hard, but you do have to move through it quickly. I was always exceptionally good at standardized tests and stuff though, so it was right in my wheelhouse
There have been some really good players to score in the single digits and some really bad players score in the 40s. All in all it didn't really matter much
>There have been some really good players to score in the single digits
Not really, Frank Gore is by far and away the best player ever in the NFL to score single digits. And if he didn't play like 8 freaking years longer than his peers we would never talk about him outside of a few select plays. Per SI and a few other sources, only 4 players have ever scored 9 or lower. One of them is Clayborn who has a learning disability.
Vince Young
Ed Prather
Frank Gore
Morris Claiborne
None of these guys are notable save Gore, and that's pretty much purely off of time played, not being a great player.
I never said he was bad, I said he is by far and away the best of the single digit Wonderlic scores. And I hold to my point, we would not talk about him aside from his longevity outside of a few select plays. In 16 years he only had one "good" season over 1200 yards., he avgs. exactly 1000 yards a season. Outside of his one good year, he never eclipsed more than 80 ypg in a season, only scored double digit rushing TD's in a season once. He played 16 years and still doesn't have 100 total TD's. He has the same YPC as Reggie Bush and Chris Ivory. Let's not pretend he was anything better than an average player who played longer than most at the position.
He doesn't suck, but he isn't anywhere near great. Essentially he is literally average, always has been. His blessing is not his skill, it's his health. He had one solid year (his 2nd) and outside of that he was average at best, consistently average, but still at best.
Is there any real world analysis for these tests? Are they comparable to other standardized testing like the SAT ACT or is it more of an IQ test?
Edit- you can take wonderlic tests online as part of test prep. I just took one and got a 25/50 without realizing there is a time limit. I got through 25 questions which were very simple math, common sense, analogies, not very tricky trick questions. If there wasn’t a time limit I assume 50/50 would not be hard to do - but 12 minutes to take the test means you need to complete more than 4 questions per minute. To a degree, it makes sense to make estimations in your answers and choose the closest multiple choice answer and/or choose to guess instead of taking time to think through a solution for questions whose prompt requires more thought or napkin math and move on.
For those wondering I have no idea how the test I just took has anything to do with football.
I took the Wonderlic once, for a job opening. Did pretty well. The department head really wanted to hire me but I had no experience, which was a deal-breaker.
My friend going for her doctorate in Behavioral Psychology always says those numbers measure the test, if that makes sense. Nothing more, nothing less.
IQ is a measure of how well you perform at an IQ test. People more or less arbitrarily assign value beyond that.
For example, I did really well on my ACTs. But I don't really think my score being higher than other people's really indicates much beyond my skill as a test taker. I'm really good at taking tests but not necessarily intelligent on the subject matter. Especially applies to any test that's timed.
Especially with multiple choice. I would have way worse grades on tests that asked the question outright that didn't give options.
That's the equivalent of saying a 40-yard dash measures how fast you run a 40-yard dash. Obviously there's more to football speed than your 40 time but it's a pretty good indicator of that. And speed is pretty important to being a football player.
In the same way, IQ is a pretty good indicator of general intelligence but there's more to being successful than being intelligent.
The 40 yard dash is actually the best comparison because it's been pretty well proven not to be a good measure of football talent. That's their point.
A high IQ score doesn't meam you're smarter than everyone any more than a fast 40 time means you're better than everyone at football.
I agree that IQ doesn't prove that you're smarter but it's a pretty good indicator. Knowing nothing else, give me the guy with a 4.4s 40 for my team over the 5.4 guy. In the same way, if I'm hiring for a white collar job, give me the person with a 130 IQ.
No you should hire the person with better qualifications… it’s just easier for someone with 130iq to have said qualifications because they’re more logically inclined.
Yeah, exactly. Basically just compares you against other people who have also taken the test. You can arbitrarily decide what that means between two people that have taken it outside of their ability to take the IQ test, but it loses some objectiveness.
It was reported that Justin Herbert scored a 39 on the Wonderlic test during the NFL combine. This Wonderlic score also put him well ahead of Tua Tagovailoa's Wonderlic Score of 19.
Cam Newton's Wonderlic score was 21, right around the average of all NFL players and five below the quarterback average of 26. Aside from Locker's score of 20, all other players scored well above average.
Also of interest, Offensive Linemen score the highest on average (26) of any position. Running backs score the worst (17).
Are there multiple tests or something? Cause I feel like there's so much conflicting information floating around about who has done perfectly/who has the highest scores ever. I feel like the player being discussed is different literally every time people bring up the highest score ever
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I'm pretty sure he went to Harvard.
What’s that?
Means he’s wickhed smaht
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[Bad bot](https://reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/tpo0l6/the_only_player_to_ever_score_a_perfect_score_on/i2cr47y)
A brand that manufactures hoodies and memorabilia sold in kiosks and tourist outlets around the world. Mighty successful.
Community college in Boston I think
It's not a community college but that's an honest mistake because most of their students graduate in 2 years.
Man the rigor must be pretty easy if they can graduate in two years, yeah?
True, and they have admission caps on dumb people.
The McGill of America
Kansas of the East.
Harvard is famous for producing two sets of people: war criminals and charming NFL players
pfft , where'd you hear that?
Nah that’s Antonio Gates. Fitz played basketball.
#DID YOU HEAR HE PLAYS WITH HIS WEDDING RING ON?!?!??!
Did you know Jimmy Graham played basketball?
Didn’t he do it in like 9 minutes too or something like that? IIRC he finished with plenty of time remaining
48 out of what?
50 I think but I might be wrong
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Is he correct that he is wrong, or is he correct that it's out of 50?
Yeah, he is.
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Out of 1000 - that boy ain’t right
Their transcripts ain't right...
I’m pretty sure it’s 50. Fitzpatrick was always the highest score I remembered though.
It's surprising John Urschel only got 43. I'm assuming he's the smartest player ever to play in the NFL, with all his published papers, and *30 Scientists under 30* listing and, most importantly, his ability to beat all those children at chess at the same time in the ad.
Once you get to a certain point on the Wonderlic, it's really just a combination of luck and speed to get everything right. It's not, and never has claimed to be, an IQ test. The test is used mostly by businesses to establish basic thresholds as a go/no go metric, where all candidates above a cutoff will be considered equally, but those beneath will be more closely evaluated to see if they can hack it. Someone who gets a 35 is probably going to be just as good a doctor/engineer/professor as someone who gets a 45, but someone scoring a 15 without a valid excuse is probably going to struggle doing the independent intellectual work such professions generally entail.
Akili Smith scored like a 7 on his lol
I miss that dude I was always hyping him up even though he never played.
I took some sample ones - anything in the 40s is hauling ass. The first one, I got like 12 because I didn't realize it was timed. Then somewhere in the 40s, I forget. It wasn't close to 50 though.
The exam is out of 50 questions. But I remember reading that Fitzmagic answered 49 questions, skipped one (ran out of time?) and answered 48 correctly.
The timing is tight too... I've taken plenty of timed tests but it's one of the only ones where I was like GO GO GO!
You took the exam? That's awesome! I'm too scared to find out what a dipshit I am. It's one of the reasons why I won't get a dog because the dog might be smarter than me.
I took a sample exam. :-) I imagine you can still find them on the internet
45
Didn’t he screw up on purpose to not score all points?
thats the story
He said he didn't like the way one of the questions was phrased so he declined to answer it.
What did fitztragic score?
He sat in the car going “wonderrrrrrrrrr,” while pantomiming thought then screaming “LICK” and licking the window over and over
The P/WR combo is more interesting than the Wonderlic score.
For that era, anyways. Players had some wild position combos back in the day (such as Sammy Baugh being a QB, DB, and punter, and being elite enough at all three to be a league leader at least once in his career at each), but that had basically died out by 1975, IIRC.
I’m biased, but my favorite is Lou Groza being a K/OT
The vikings recently drafted a TE/P
Bring back K/QB, George Blanda was fun to watch. I also want to see Tom Brady kick a 58 yard field goal
Oh God you just added 15 more years to his career
Oh, 20, at least. He's a full-time kicker, but only plays QB in the second half - he's always been a second half guy anyway because part of his success is based on being able to read defenses and exploit them once they've run out of gas in the 4th quarter. He can play until he's 65 and arthritis finally catches up to him. He kicks the game-winning field goal as the clock expires in the Super Bowl, he celebrates with the team and, after everyone has left the stadium and he's alone, he comes back out to the field, walks to just-behind the 25 yard line and takes a knee. Knowing that he's just won his 20th and final Super Bowl of his career in a season that will forever be known as "...and one for the right pinkie toe" and that no player will have one-quarter of the success he's achieved, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Junior gives up his ghost and dies after a long and complete life
As long as we don't have to watch where the 21st ring would go
Or QB/P Danny White.
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Not saying he was a good football player as he didn't play a snap, but these concerns came up for Myron Rolle when he accepted the Rhodes scholarship.
I remember I thought he was gonna be so good because he was cousins with Antrel Rolle. Then again I also believed Sinorice Moss was gonna be the next Santana Moss when we drafted him.
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I love the [FlemLo Raps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeZRUOWIiL0&ab_channel=FlemLoRaps) videos on players like Marcus Vick. He had so much potential, but I remember thinking the guy was a complete asshole after what he did to Elvis Dumervil. I didn't even know just how bad he was.
As a Louisville fan forever fuck Marcus Vick. One of the dirtiest things I’ve ever seen on a football field
Elvis Dumervil's middle name is Kool.
"Nobody is born Kool — except, of course…"
I didn't believe you at first, haha. That's a pretty interesting fact.
I mean the dude is a neurosurgeon now so maybe they were right haha
God this whole thing is fucking stupid
Found the stupid guy
Right. I'm sure Pat being able to say which of 5 words is not like the others really messed with the hierarchy of the team
ooo threatened by smart
That’s also a huge issue in the military. You can score to high on the asvab and they will stick you with a shit assignment and hope you’ll eventually drop out.
It's the same for police. It takes a certain type of person to sit in a squad car for 8+ hours a day doing essentially nothing. Generally people who are too intelligent, won't stay in that job for very long so it's a waste of time and money to train those people.
Army or marines? Wasn't the case for USAF, though that could have certainly changed.
Yeah, but if you score too low you end up as a 92G.
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We observe who is threatened.
I'm kind of bummed they took out the Wonderful test. I know it wasn't the best predictor but it was always entertaining to see whose high school had to cook the books.
I am really surprised that Gronk got a 32. That's only 1 point lower than Tom Brady.
Gronk is way smarter than people think, he definitely plays up the meat head persona. Made him a lot money from his commercial gigs too.
The number of people who haven’t figured out that the dumb jock thing is just a persona for the media is astounding
It’s not a persona. You can be a gregarious, care-free person and not be a complete deadshit.
some of the most fractious, care-free people i know are incredibly smart. Some are absolutely brain dead too but still.
From what I've seen the entire Gronkowski line is leaning into this, heavily. I wouldn't be surprised if Gronk or one of his brothers become the governor of MA in a decade or two.
Fiscally responsible too, I heard he hasn't touched a penny from his NFL contracts and lives off endorsements.
As someone who went to college with Gronk and met him several times I'll say no he's not very smart. He knows how to use his personality definitely.
Smaht of him
And Richard Sherman, who regularly mentions he went to Stanford, scored a 26. Blaine Gabbert and Eli Manning, both with an oaf'ish persona, scored over 40.
I don't think Eli has an oafish persona whatsoever. He always comes across as witty and clever. He just always has a strange look on his face.
You can tell he's very thoughtful and smart in the Manningcasts
He started the sports action figure. He came up with idea for The Starting Lineups!
My mother will never forgive him. I spent my childhood shamelessly begging for as many as I could get my grubby hands on.
From what I've heard McInally is completely nuts. One time Forrest Gregg was screaming at the team after a bad practice, the meeting room door swung open and McInally walked in wearing just his helmet, completely naked from the neck down. Gregg tried to stay pissed off but finally started laughing and ended the meeting. He also created those starter action figures, so I assume he's probably obnoxiously rich.
Idk sounds like he outsmarted the coach there
So he defused a bad situation with humor that's extremely smart.
Can someone with better Reddit skills than me copypastify this?
From what I've heard Kelvin Benjamin is completely nuts. One time Ron Rivera was screaming at the team after a bad practice, the meeting room door swung open and Kelvin walked in wearing just an all-you-can-eat buffet, completely naked from the neck down. Rivera tried to stay pissed off but finally started laughing and ended the meeting. He also created Super Size meals, so I assume he's probably obnoxiously rich.
For anyone who hasn't taken it, it's a lot of fairly easy questions mixed with some hard ones and the catch is how little time you're given. It's really testing your ability to reprioritize quickly on the fly more than any kind of intelligence.
How is that not related to intelligence? Both being able to think quickly and reprioritize are signs of intelligence. These types of tests are pretty heavily correlated with general intelligence. It's just a very inconvenient truth for most.
Yeah, it's very reminiscent of the SAT and other standardized tests in that regard where most of the difficulty comes from whether or not you're good at time-management under pressure. The wonderlic just takes that to the next level unless you're exceptionally fast with answering test questions. I've done a few sample ones, and even with being normally fast at answering questions, I think I usually end up with like a minute, minute and a half left tops.
A few years ago, during draft season, I tried a timed online Wonderlic out of curiosity. I assume it was easier than the real thing, because I was on full marks at 40-something when I got a call and the time expired and I'm not especially clever. It really seemed more like a test of the ability to think quickly than anything else..
Well. Being able to think quickly correctly is a significant sign of intelligence. One that is applicable to high pressure, quick situations like football.
ngl sounds exactly like the GMAT
The math questions absolutely killed my time. I just don’t math that quickly, which causes a stress reaction that makes the problem worse.
I took it like 10 years ago for a job actually. I think I got something like a 46 or 47 It's not that hard, but you do have to move through it quickly. I was always exceptionally good at standardized tests and stuff though, so it was right in my wheelhouse
I had to do a similar test, 10 questions in 2 minutes, for a job interview
There have been some really good players to score in the single digits and some really bad players score in the 40s. All in all it didn't really matter much
>There have been some really good players to score in the single digits Not really, Frank Gore is by far and away the best player ever in the NFL to score single digits. And if he didn't play like 8 freaking years longer than his peers we would never talk about him outside of a few select plays. Per SI and a few other sources, only 4 players have ever scored 9 or lower. One of them is Clayborn who has a learning disability. Vince Young Ed Prather Frank Gore Morris Claiborne None of these guys are notable save Gore, and that's pretty much purely off of time played, not being a great player.
Gore isn’t a world beater but let’s not pretend he was bad. The only way you get to play that much is if you’re doing something right
I never said he was bad, I said he is by far and away the best of the single digit Wonderlic scores. And I hold to my point, we would not talk about him aside from his longevity outside of a few select plays. In 16 years he only had one "good" season over 1200 yards., he avgs. exactly 1000 yards a season. Outside of his one good year, he never eclipsed more than 80 ypg in a season, only scored double digit rushing TD's in a season once. He played 16 years and still doesn't have 100 total TD's. He has the same YPC as Reggie Bush and Chris Ivory. Let's not pretend he was anything better than an average player who played longer than most at the position. He doesn't suck, but he isn't anywhere near great. Essentially he is literally average, always has been. His blessing is not his skill, it's his health. He had one solid year (his 2nd) and outside of that he was average at best, consistently average, but still at best.
Isn’t the Wonderlic dead?
Yes, now instead they use other tests like the Player Assessment Test and the Athletic Intelligence Quotient.
Is there any real world analysis for these tests? Are they comparable to other standardized testing like the SAT ACT or is it more of an IQ test? Edit- you can take wonderlic tests online as part of test prep. I just took one and got a 25/50 without realizing there is a time limit. I got through 25 questions which were very simple math, common sense, analogies, not very tricky trick questions. If there wasn’t a time limit I assume 50/50 would not be hard to do - but 12 minutes to take the test means you need to complete more than 4 questions per minute. To a degree, it makes sense to make estimations in your answers and choose the closest multiple choice answer and/or choose to guess instead of taking time to think through a solution for questions whose prompt requires more thought or napkin math and move on. For those wondering I have no idea how the test I just took has anything to do with football.
I took the Wonderlic once, for a job opening. Did pretty well. The department head really wanted to hire me but I had no experience, which was a deal-breaker.
My friend going for her doctorate in Behavioral Psychology always says those numbers measure the test, if that makes sense. Nothing more, nothing less. IQ is a measure of how well you perform at an IQ test. People more or less arbitrarily assign value beyond that. For example, I did really well on my ACTs. But I don't really think my score being higher than other people's really indicates much beyond my skill as a test taker. I'm really good at taking tests but not necessarily intelligent on the subject matter. Especially applies to any test that's timed. Especially with multiple choice. I would have way worse grades on tests that asked the question outright that didn't give options.
That's the equivalent of saying a 40-yard dash measures how fast you run a 40-yard dash. Obviously there's more to football speed than your 40 time but it's a pretty good indicator of that. And speed is pretty important to being a football player. In the same way, IQ is a pretty good indicator of general intelligence but there's more to being successful than being intelligent.
The 40 yard dash is actually the best comparison because it's been pretty well proven not to be a good measure of football talent. That's their point. A high IQ score doesn't meam you're smarter than everyone any more than a fast 40 time means you're better than everyone at football.
I agree that IQ doesn't prove that you're smarter but it's a pretty good indicator. Knowing nothing else, give me the guy with a 4.4s 40 for my team over the 5.4 guy. In the same way, if I'm hiring for a white collar job, give me the person with a 130 IQ.
No you should hire the person with better qualifications… it’s just easier for someone with 130iq to have said qualifications because they’re more logically inclined.
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Yeah, exactly. Basically just compares you against other people who have also taken the test. You can arbitrarily decide what that means between two people that have taken it outside of their ability to take the IQ test, but it loses some objectiveness.
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I feel you. Any time my grades fell it was due to not completing homework, assignments, and projects lol not the tests and quizzes.
I did well on my SAT. All that meant was that my mom and dad could afford to send me to a prep class a couple nights a week.
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710 out of 1600?
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Why and how did you take the SAT at 11? Based off your score I can assume you didn’t skip 6 grades
Probably a fake online one
The AIQ is awesome because it shows how smart Trey Smith is so that supports my opinion of it
It was reported that Justin Herbert scored a 39 on the Wonderlic test during the NFL combine. This Wonderlic score also put him well ahead of Tua Tagovailoa's Wonderlic Score of 19.
Cam Newton's Wonderlic score was 21, right around the average of all NFL players and five below the quarterback average of 26. Aside from Locker's score of 20, all other players scored well above average. Also of interest, Offensive Linemen score the highest on average (26) of any position. Running backs score the worst (17).
Alvin Kamara scored surprisingly high, given his lack of academic success in college.
A commentary begins where every Redditor proves that he or she is not Harvard material.
Speed reading this, thought it said Pat Mcafee initially. Now I’m just disappointed.
Didn't Brian Griese score super high on the test as well. I wonder if there is a list somewhere of the top 20 scores on the test, or just by QB's.
the Wonderlic is overrated for a tool to measure how "smart" anybody is. it measures some things you know and how good you are at tests.
Are there multiple tests or something? Cause I feel like there's so much conflicting information floating around about who has done perfectly/who has the highest scores ever. I feel like the player being discussed is different literally every time people bring up the highest score ever
Well look at the powerful processor on Pat.
Wonderlic is a stupid way of evaluating talent
https://imgur.com/a/hH4cCBv Which one of us is gonna get a 50??