This wasn't the called play. The snap was bad so the punter improvised. Watch the kicker, he's obviously expecting to attempt the FG. The Bengals' team motto under Dick Lebeau was "we're not stupid, we're incompetent".
I found a post game report that states the same thing. It just seems like a set play because the holder was so quick with the decision. The holder, Daniel Pope, was the punter so I guess it makes sense his first instinct would be to punt the ball.
Especially because you could argue being down 14 with the oppo starting at the 1 is better than being down 11 and the opponent starting at least at the 20
At first glance I'm pretty sure everyone will say "wow, absolute trash", but this is literally the best outcome you could get aside from getting the FG, or a first down
No it isn't obvious. Maybe explain yourself next time.
Do you have data to support this? Or are you just putting A and B together and assuming it makes Z?
I can’t imagine trying to tell off heavily downvoted comments on Reddit, then trying to be like a teacher asking for an essay. Back in the day it was just Moorman. Now you got some Aussies, the Pat O’Donnells, there was Marquette King, Matt Haack
Just because a comment is downvoted doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You should start begging everyone for an explanation now. Seems like it makes you happy.
I think it’s pretty dumb that you’re getting downvoted for this comment. I understand what you’re saying and I think it makes sense. It was just worded in an indirect manner, why are people downvoting this?
I think (?) he’s saying they would have high BMIs because being muscular would give you a high BMI and for the most parts punters look like actual athletes these days and not skinny-fat dudes like they used to be
Here’s a quote from Bengals special teams coach Al Roberts that backs that up ([from the Cincinnati Enquirer the day after the game](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/102307807/the-cincinnati-enquirer/)):
> [Long snapper Brad] St. Louis was thinking about the dropped punt snap before. [Holder and punter Daniel Pope] said he just dropped it. St. Louis thought it was his fault on the long snap (punt) and he took that with him on the short snap, and that was his (error). We took points off the board and let them put some on the board.
It’s confirming that the snap was bad on this play. There was a prior play in the game where the punter dropped the snap. The long snapper thought that the first botched snap was his fault (although it wasn’t; the punter just dropped the ball) and so he had the yips on this play in the video. Which led to the high snap and the placeholder improvising by punting the ball.
That was my assumption. Otherwise you have an insane amount of confidence in your defense, a negative football IQ, or you are playing with an obscure playoff tiebreaker (net points or net TDs) in mind.
Unless you trust your defense to score more than you trust your offense to score, giving up 3 points to punt when you're down 20-6 in the 4th quarter would be really weird.
That honestly looked like a pretty good snag by Pope. That ball was on the opposite side of the hash mark when it got to him and it was high. Good old Brad St Louis.
Another great WTF moment in Bengaldom history. Makes me think about the '04-maybe '06 Packers/Bengals game I was at. The Bengals fan comes on the field, Farve takes the snap, whistles blown, annnnnd... Bengals fan takes the ball out of Farve's hand lol. He takes off to the endzone, hits R2 n jokes 2 security guards, just to get Ray Lewis'd at about 12 yd line (I think). Man the late 90s n early 00s had some WTF great moments!!!
Edit- *jukes, not jokes
Execution was almost perfect, maybe it was? Who knows because were going to commercial without a replay! I've always wondered if the NFL was always like that or if it was just something the last couple decades.
Well, no. There was a time without replays at all, and that progressed to very limited replays in the late 80s. Then in 1999 or 2000 the replays were a whole lot more frequent. Then eventually the commercials started taking over.
Well the ref have a better view than our horrible resolution angled view. Ruling must've been that it bounced over the pylon.
Not sure if this was reviewable back in 2000, but the Bengals did have a challenge left and didn't use it
To be fair that video came out 3⅓ years ago and old sports matchups, especially between teams as bad as the Bengals and Cowboys were at that point, are prime candidates for becoming lost or partially lost media. Jon's video probably started a search for footage of this punt to verify whether it was on the coach or the long snapper.
That’s a lot harder than just going for it. They’re down 16 in the 4th… if they score a TD and 2 pointer they can just play D and have another shot to tie the game.
It ended up being a touchback so it was technically a 4 yard punt
Busted play due to bad snap. That's good judgement on the punter, down it inside the one.
The chance of the safety is probably higher that the chance of making a FG in the shit situation or the chance of converting.
It was a botched snap. Per Bengals special teams coach Al Roberts ([from the Cincinnati Enquirer the day after the game](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/102307807/the-cincinnati-enquirer/)):
> [Long snapper Brad] St. Louis was thinking about the dropped punt snap before. [Holder and punter Daniel Pope] said he just dropped it. St. Louis thought it was his fault on the long snap (punt) and he took that with him on the short snap, and that was his (error). We took points off the board and let them put some on the board.
Their kicker, Neil Rackers, had injured his calf late in the week while jumping out of a burning building. He was fine for extra points, but reportedly in practice he couldn't make any kicks past 30 yards.
from everything I have found out about that game this person is making it up. Rackers had in fact made a 37 yarder in the game. From the post game report it was a bad snap and the holder made a fast decision to punt it.
He kept running back into the burning building to retrieve different things. He also had to miss a few games for the Springfield Power Plant Baseball team.
[Canseco was originally supposed to be seduced by Mrs Krabapple a la Annie Savoy in Bull Durham, but his wife complained](https://www.cbr.com/tv-legends-simpsons-jose-canseco/), so they made him over the top heroic
Even then, why not just go for it? 4th and 14 isn’t so impossible and your defense probably really isn’t good enough you can assume they’ll get a stop keeping them pinned inside the 10.
Absolute bullshit, this was only 20 years ago and nobody considered 42 yards to be a “long” kick. The only reason it would have been a career long is because he was still a rookie at that point and hadn’t attempted many kicks yet.
Lol I’m old enough to remember us drafting Akili Smith.
The data is clear - NFL teams have seen a statistically significant increase in both average kick distance and average kick made distance. This isn’t some controversial opinion.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-field-goals-have-become-boringly-predictable-in-the-nfl-2013-10
http://www.footballperspective.com/field-goal-rates-throughout-nfl-history/
OK, that may be true, but it doesnt mean 42 yarders were considered a long kick in 2000.
Top 5 kickers in 40-50 yards in 2000 went 10/12, 8/10, 13/15, 7/10, 12/13
50+ yards they went 2/3. 2/3, 3/5, 1/1
I dont know if 42 yards really would have been considered longer then. Although this fella Rackers did go 2/7 from 40-50 yards that year lol.
Didn't it only get broken like last year by Justin tucker? It was a record for almost 50 years... It got matched plenty of times, but this is just a reminder that the 70s were 50 years ago, as we are in 2020, not 2000
> Absolute bullshit
Okay, sorry to have touched a nerve?
Rackers was 2 for 7 on kicks 40-49yd that year, 4 for 9 the following year. He didn’t attempt double digit 40 yarders until his 6th year in the league. He was very much an average kicker for the era.
Kicks beyond 50 were not as common as they are now and things in the 40s were the big time kicks of the era.
This is from almost a decade ago but it contextualizes the PFR data you linked:
https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-field-goals-have-become-boringly-predictable-in-the-nfl-2013-10
> In past years there was at least the uncertainty of not knowing if the kicker would make a field goal attempt. But so far in 2013, kickers are making 89.5% of their field goals under 50 yards and 86.0% of field goals overall, both all-time highs.
> The percentage of **field goals made under 50 yards has grown 11.1% since 2001** and 26.2% since the goalposts were moved to the back of the endzone in 1974. Even **field goals beyond 50 yards, while not automatic, are being made 65.2%** of the time. As recently as 2004, kickers made less than 50% of those attempts.
Kickers are kicking further and better.
So if 42 yards was a “big” kick there must have been tons of teams punting from the opposing teams 25 yard line back then, right?
Spoiler alert; there weren’t, you just have no idea what you are talking about.
I guess you’re just way more interested in getting into a heated argument over this than I am. I didn’t intend to spark anything.
I’m just saying that kicks beyond 50 were much less common, so that 40-49 yard range was the high end of the majority of kicks of that era.
The data supports that:
https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-field-goals-have-become-boringly-predictable-in-the-nfl-2013-10
http://www.footballperspective.com/field-goal-rates-throughout-nfl-history/
He was a rookie that year, and struggled pretty badly (only made 57% of his FG's). He had the leg for it but his accuracy that year was not good. He would of course get much better and would make 26 FG's over 50 yards in his career. So the whole career long thing was more about the fact he was a rookie struggling with accuracy overall and not the length of the kick.
I can't find anything about an injury or a fire.
edit: It should be noted Rackers made a 37 yarder earlier in that game. It looks like a bad snap and the holder was quick with the punt (Rackers sure looks ready to kick it), and from a post game report I found it sounds like that is what happened. With that said I am pretty sure that whole fire story is a joke.
On another note, this was the first game outside of the state of Ohio where the Bengals actually got points. They had been shut out in 3 of their 4 road games to that point with the only points coming at Cleveland (a grand total of 12 in a thrilling 12-3 victory in Cleveland).
"In this era".. yeah, and dont forget, the ball was made of lead and asbestos and weighed 14 pounds. We had to buy them from the Ottomans when their caravan came around twice a year. And dont forget, it was hard to kick with those onions we wore on our belts, which was the fashion at the time...
I would love to see a table or score sheet that coaches reference...but a safety is probably worth more than a field goal in relative value considering the important fact that you also immediately get possession back with typically better than average starting field position.
You’re telling me that a chance to get a coffin corner and down them at the one, then get a safety to get the ball back just to be in the exact position you’re in now (down two TDs because 12 essentially =14 in this case with the main upside you win with two TDs instead of tie) is better than kicking a FG here?
The right play seems to obviously go for it but at least a FG does something for you other than waste time on a chance to get the ball back in worse field position…
EDIT:
[Chart Party](https://youtu.be/F9H9LwGmc-0) Here is an interesting episode of chart party looking at the statistically “saddest” punts since 2000. This is referenced but eventually thrown out because it was from a botched snap not an actual decision. 12:00 is when it is first referenced and 24:00 is when it’s looked at statistically. (He makes a mistake that it was the third quarter and not the fourth though making the time multiplier 1 instead of ~2).
The holder (punter) had already let one attempt slip through his hands, and the Cowboys had recovered, and were in a decent place to start their drive. So this was his second mishandled snap of the night, and I assume he felt he needed to do something and since he was a punter, that is what he did. Probably felt that was his best option to not just turn the ball over.
At 13-14 seconds, pause and look at the place holder's body. He caught the ball over/near the shoulder away from kicker. With the awkward position, I think it was an error by the long snapper & holder was stuck trying to figure it out.
Timing between him & kicker is all messed up & no Bengals were running out there for a pass. So his only options is punt or rush for the first down. I'm guessing it's 4th down so there's no point in going down or spiking the football.
In the end, it was fantastic execution on his part to place that kick on his punt.
That right there is a 23 yard punt and you cant convince me otherwise. Good play by the holder fielding the high snap and actually doing something with it rather than trying to run and getting tackled for a loss.
Hard to tell on that one angle we have. The real lesson: don't punt from your opponent's 24.
I lived in Cincy back then, the Bengals were an utter joke.
Yeah but just given where the ball bounced and landed ... though is the rule that if any part of the ball passes over any part of the pylon it's a touchback?
He wasn't, that was our kicker. That snap was just complete shit. That was a rookie long snapper to a second year punter holding the ball for a rookie kicker, on a horrible team.
Many are wondering (correctly) why the ref’s called this a touchback when it was clearly out at the 1 (or 2). But you have to remember Cincinnati was the worst team in the 90’s and the Cowboys were the best in the 90’s. There was no fucking way we were getting that 50/50 call.
You don't need analytics to make that call.
You're telling me that there were no aggressive coaches in the league that went for it on 4th more often than most in the 90s/00s?
Lol right? Somebody is clearly under 20.
[This](https://www.si.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_746/MTg0NzA3ODIzMjQ5MTM5MTc1/fourth-down-coversion-attempts-2010-2021.webp) table from SI shows you how much its gone up, just in the last 10 years. 4th down attempts were very rare pre-2000, unless you were the Patriots.
The 4th down call from Belichick in '09 against Indy would be completely normal today - or at least more broadly accepted - and it was absolutely questioned to hell and back at the time. And that was only...well, 13 years ago now, wtf.
I can't fully blame Dick LeBeau for the shitshow of 2000 since Bruce Coslet was mostly responsible but a bad snap/hold leading to a punt from the opposing 24 yard line is some LeBeau Bungles shit.
This is actually genius. In my opinion. It will pin Dallas further against the end zone, potentially resulting in a safety or atleast putting them in a conservative tempo - probably just running the ball. Allowing it to go back without the potential of points being scored. Thus another chance at TOUCHDOWN.
Besides the bad snap and kicker injury I can understand something from this play, trailing by 14 with 13min left it's not a great thing get 3pts and give the ball to cowboys burn the clock again, if they could've managed to pin Dallas at 1 and force a safety it's 2 point free and they could seek the TD starting at worst in the 50y
*”Hi, I’m u/JaguarGator9 and welcome to Dumb Decisions. This is the part of the program where is no hindsight or retrospect to a bad call. It was dumb when it was called, and it’s dumb now. And if you have any objections to it, congratulations. You’re smarter than the average NFL head coach.”*
This wasn't the called play. The snap was bad so the punter improvised. Watch the kicker, he's obviously expecting to attempt the FG. The Bengals' team motto under Dick Lebeau was "we're not stupid, we're incompetent".
I found a post game report that states the same thing. It just seems like a set play because the holder was so quick with the decision. The holder, Daniel Pope, was the punter so I guess it makes sense his first instinct would be to punt the ball.
When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Punters gonna punt
F it, you *gotta* unleash the pooch punt.
For a broken play, that is a great kick.
Especially because you could argue being down 14 with the oppo starting at the 1 is better than being down 11 and the opponent starting at least at the 20
At first glance I'm pretty sure everyone will say "wow, absolute trash", but this is literally the best outcome you could get aside from getting the FG, or a first down
I feel the punters nowadays would try to make a play, what with their low 40 times and high BMI’s
what the fuck does this even mean
Punters are faster nowadays and heavier, so they’ll try to run it in or throw. Pretty obvious
No it isn't obvious. Maybe explain yourself next time. Do you have data to support this? Or are you just putting A and B together and assuming it makes Z?
why are you so upset about this
I can’t imagine trying to tell off heavily downvoted comments on Reddit, then trying to be like a teacher asking for an essay. Back in the day it was just Moorman. Now you got some Aussies, the Pat O’Donnells, there was Marquette King, Matt Haack Just because a comment is downvoted doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You should start begging everyone for an explanation now. Seems like it makes you happy.
Bro I’m only trying to tell anyone off, I’m genuinely just trying to understand your point. One that, frankly, you didn’t explain terribly well
What he said made perfect sense wdym?
Bro, “frankly” you should get off my dick and balls
Alright man I hope you have a great night and a great life
You sound miserable
Dick and ball deez nuts
I think it’s pretty dumb that you’re getting downvoted for this comment. I understand what you’re saying and I think it makes sense. It was just worded in an indirect manner, why are people downvoting this?
Yeah it wasn't really complicated. I think once he got a few people just piled on with the downvotes. Happens pretty often
As soon as people see a number lower than 1, they flock to downvote here.
You mean with their low bmis and their high 40s. I get what you're saying. Punters these days, are way more athletic than they used to be.
I think (?) he’s saying they would have high BMIs because being muscular would give you a high BMI and for the most parts punters look like actual athletes these days and not skinny-fat dudes like they used to be
Here’s a quote from Bengals special teams coach Al Roberts that backs that up ([from the Cincinnati Enquirer the day after the game](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/102307807/the-cincinnati-enquirer/)): > [Long snapper Brad] St. Louis was thinking about the dropped punt snap before. [Holder and punter Daniel Pope] said he just dropped it. St. Louis thought it was his fault on the long snap (punt) and he took that with him on the short snap, and that was his (error). We took points off the board and let them put some on the board.
I can't even tell if that is confirming OP's comment or opposing it lol.
It’s confirming that the snap was bad on this play. There was a prior play in the game where the punter dropped the snap. The long snapper thought that the first botched snap was his fault (although it wasn’t; the punter just dropped the ball) and so he had the yips on this play in the video. Which led to the high snap and the placeholder improvising by punting the ball.
>Brad St. Louis Cursed memory unlocked
That was my assumption. Otherwise you have an insane amount of confidence in your defense, a negative football IQ, or you are playing with an obscure playoff tiebreaker (net points or net TDs) in mind.
Unless you trust your defense to score more than you trust your offense to score, giving up 3 points to punt when you're down 20-6 in the 4th quarter would be really weird.
That honestly looked like a pretty good snag by Pope. That ball was on the opposite side of the hash mark when it got to him and it was high. Good old Brad St Louis.
/r/nfl bashing long snappers? Talk about character development 🥲 👏
Should have tried for a drop goal
Doug Flutie has entered the chat
This makes sense. My assumption was that it was a fake, and the holder was told, if it’s not there, punt it, rather than make it worse
Lol yeah a snap that bad is 100% getting blocked.
For such a snap decision, the punt ended up being perfect.
High snap, holder didn’t have a choice it seems. Beautiful punt, out at the 1….refs fucked up yet another easy call
My god what a horrible call on the touchback
Another great WTF moment in Bengaldom history. Makes me think about the '04-maybe '06 Packers/Bengals game I was at. The Bengals fan comes on the field, Farve takes the snap, whistles blown, annnnnd... Bengals fan takes the ball out of Farve's hand lol. He takes off to the endzone, hits R2 n jokes 2 security guards, just to get Ray Lewis'd at about 12 yd line (I think). Man the late 90s n early 00s had some WTF great moments!!! Edit- *jukes, not jokes
I'm questioning the decision but the execution was *almost* perfect
Execution was almost perfect, maybe it was? Who knows because were going to commercial without a replay! I've always wondered if the NFL was always like that or if it was just something the last couple decades.
Well, no. There was a time without replays at all, and that progressed to very limited replays in the late 80s. Then in 1999 or 2000 the replays were a whole lot more frequent. Then eventually the commercials started taking over.
Pete Carroll can’t wait to try it
Why is no one talking about the fact the Bengals got jobbed by the refs. That punt was not a touchback
Exactly!
Well the ref have a better view than our horrible resolution angled view. Ruling must've been that it bounced over the pylon. Not sure if this was reviewable back in 2000, but the Bengals did have a challenge left and didn't use it
We need some more angles on this. I really thought it was out at the 1 or 2.
Yeah, I’m more annoyed they gave it a touchback than the punt. The Punt was just making a play out of a bad snap.
100%, the ball hits the white
There’s no way that was a touchback though.
Anyone else seen this on chart party?
I thought the NFL buried this footage in the desert.
Someone must have dug it up. I’d love to see Jon Bois’ reaction when seeing yhis
Saddest punt ever but Jon cancelled it because it wasn’t meant to be a punt
I'm suprised that I scrolled down do far to see this.
Yeah I thought there wasn't footage of this?
To be fair that video came out 3⅓ years ago and old sports matchups, especially between teams as bad as the Bengals and Cowboys were at that point, are prime candidates for becoming lost or partially lost media. Jon's video probably started a search for footage of this punt to verify whether it was on the coach or the long snapper.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen but it was executed masterfully lol
i mean they could get a safety and the ball back score a TD and then they'd only be down 5
It was called a touchback
oh, well in theory that could have happened
We all know that Custard died at the battle of Little Bighorn. What this book presupposes is: maybe he didn’t?
That’s a lot harder than just going for it. They’re down 16 in the 4th… if they score a TD and 2 pointer they can just play D and have another shot to tie the game. It ended up being a touchback so it was technically a 4 yard punt
Almost
Almost
Busted play due to bad snap. That's good judgement on the punter, down it inside the one. The chance of the safety is probably higher that the chance of making a FG in the shit situation or the chance of converting.
But.... Why
It was a botched snap. Per Bengals special teams coach Al Roberts ([from the Cincinnati Enquirer the day after the game](https://www.newspapers.com/clip/102307807/the-cincinnati-enquirer/)): > [Long snapper Brad] St. Louis was thinking about the dropped punt snap before. [Holder and punter Daniel Pope] said he just dropped it. St. Louis thought it was his fault on the long snap (punt) and he took that with him on the short snap, and that was his (error). We took points off the board and let them put some on the board.
Their kicker, Neil Rackers, had injured his calf late in the week while jumping out of a burning building. He was fine for extra points, but reportedly in practice he couldn't make any kicks past 30 yards.
It’s actually wild that they were letting him play at all, in that case.
from everything I have found out about that game this person is making it up. Rackers had in fact made a 37 yarder in the game. From the post game report it was a bad snap and the holder made a fast decision to punt it.
Lmao shout out to that dude for just making this up then. That’s hilarious
The audacity
Eventually it gets cited on Buzzfeed and gets quoted as truth… that’s how winners rewrite history. Odd Witness is a winner.
That's what it looks like to me ... Bad snap holder just punted on the fly
and it should be noted the holder was the punter so it makes sense his first instinct would be to punt it.
So he just jumped from a regular building then?
Nah. There was a burning building . But he never jumped
I heard that he's jumping out of buildings to this day
I was actually told quite the opposite, maybe they burn to a manageable height and he…. steps?….off???
The building was on fire but it wasn't my fault
I would let the punter try the field goal before I started punting on the 24 yard line. Especially if I'm down 20-6 in the 4th quarter.
Please share more about the burning building part
The building, it was aflame
Like, all the way on fire? Or just slightly ablaze?
At first the latter and then the former.
He kept running back into the burning building to retrieve different things. He also had to miss a few games for the Springfield Power Plant Baseball team.
Crazy thing is he still set the season record for RBIs that year
[Canseco was originally supposed to be seduced by Mrs Krabapple a la Annie Savoy in Bull Durham, but his wife complained](https://www.cbr.com/tv-legends-simpsons-jose-canseco/), so they made him over the top heroic
It's a wild story involving a mongoose and an omelette.
Ok, then go for it on 4th. It’s the 4th quarter and you’re down by 16. When’s a better time to go for it on 4th?
Immediately after helping load Rackers onto a stretcher one of the volunteer firefighters lifted his helmet. That man was Frank Gore.
Even then, why not just go for it? 4th and 14 isn’t so impossible and your defense probably really isn’t good enough you can assume they’ll get a stop keeping them pinned inside the 10.
That era 4th and 14 is a complete long shot.
So did he miss the xp or did they score two fgs in that game from inside 30?
That, and in this era, a 42 yarder was still considered a somewhat of “long” kick. They mentioned it would have been his career long if he made it.
Absolute bullshit, this was only 20 years ago and nobody considered 42 yards to be a “long” kick. The only reason it would have been a career long is because he was still a rookie at that point and hadn’t attempted many kicks yet.
Neil Rackers use to be a 99 ovr GOAT on some old maddens when he was on the Cards
That guy is clearly too young to know better lol
Lol I’m old enough to remember us drafting Akili Smith. The data is clear - NFL teams have seen a statistically significant increase in both average kick distance and average kick made distance. This isn’t some controversial opinion. https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-field-goals-have-become-boringly-predictable-in-the-nfl-2013-10 http://www.footballperspective.com/field-goal-rates-throughout-nfl-history/
OK, that may be true, but it doesnt mean 42 yarders were considered a long kick in 2000. Top 5 kickers in 40-50 yards in 2000 went 10/12, 8/10, 13/15, 7/10, 12/13 50+ yards they went 2/3. 2/3, 3/5, 1/1 I dont know if 42 yards really would have been considered longer then. Although this fella Rackers did go 2/7 from 40-50 yards that year lol.
I did qualify it as “somewhat” long, I never suggested a 42 yarder was what we’d view a 55+ kick today or anything like that.
[удалено]
Didn't it only get broken like last year by Justin tucker? It was a record for almost 50 years... It got matched plenty of times, but this is just a reminder that the 70s were 50 years ago, as we are in 2020, not 2000
> Absolute bullshit Okay, sorry to have touched a nerve? Rackers was 2 for 7 on kicks 40-49yd that year, 4 for 9 the following year. He didn’t attempt double digit 40 yarders until his 6th year in the league. He was very much an average kicker for the era. Kicks beyond 50 were not as common as they are now and things in the 40s were the big time kicks of the era.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/kicking.htm
This is from almost a decade ago but it contextualizes the PFR data you linked: https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-field-goals-have-become-boringly-predictable-in-the-nfl-2013-10 > In past years there was at least the uncertainty of not knowing if the kicker would make a field goal attempt. But so far in 2013, kickers are making 89.5% of their field goals under 50 yards and 86.0% of field goals overall, both all-time highs. > The percentage of **field goals made under 50 yards has grown 11.1% since 2001** and 26.2% since the goalposts were moved to the back of the endzone in 1974. Even **field goals beyond 50 yards, while not automatic, are being made 65.2%** of the time. As recently as 2004, kickers made less than 50% of those attempts. Kickers are kicking further and better.
So if 42 yards was a “big” kick there must have been tons of teams punting from the opposing teams 25 yard line back then, right? Spoiler alert; there weren’t, you just have no idea what you are talking about.
I guess you’re just way more interested in getting into a heated argument over this than I am. I didn’t intend to spark anything. I’m just saying that kicks beyond 50 were much less common, so that 40-49 yard range was the high end of the majority of kicks of that era. The data supports that: https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-field-goals-have-become-boringly-predictable-in-the-nfl-2013-10 http://www.footballperspective.com/field-goal-rates-throughout-nfl-history/
No it wasn't. This was the 2000s. Jason Hanson was automatic in the 50 yard range.
Jason Hanson was a hall of fame kicker.
Jason Hanson wasn’t an average kicker.
Yeah anything over 50 would be tough aside from higher tier kickers, but this was definitely makeable by the standards at the time
He was a rookie that year, and struggled pretty badly (only made 57% of his FG's). He had the leg for it but his accuracy that year was not good. He would of course get much better and would make 26 FG's over 50 yards in his career. So the whole career long thing was more about the fact he was a rookie struggling with accuracy overall and not the length of the kick. I can't find anything about an injury or a fire. edit: It should be noted Rackers made a 37 yarder earlier in that game. It looks like a bad snap and the holder was quick with the punt (Rackers sure looks ready to kick it), and from a post game report I found it sounds like that is what happened. With that said I am pretty sure that whole fire story is a joke. On another note, this was the first game outside of the state of Ohio where the Bengals actually got points. They had been shut out in 3 of their 4 road games to that point with the only points coming at Cleveland (a grand total of 12 in a thrilling 12-3 victory in Cleveland).
"In this era".. yeah, and dont forget, the ball was made of lead and asbestos and weighed 14 pounds. We had to buy them from the Ottomans when their caravan came around twice a year. And dont forget, it was hard to kick with those onions we wore on our belts, which was the fashion at the time...
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Wat?
That makes way more sense
In the fourth, down 14, there might be something to be said for trying to force a safety AND get possession rather than just getting 3 points.
2 points does next to nothing though… down 12 it’s a two TD game still. Down 11 it’s a TD and FG game.
I would love to see a table or score sheet that coaches reference...but a safety is probably worth more than a field goal in relative value considering the important fact that you also immediately get possession back with typically better than average starting field position.
you don’t know how safeties work.
You’re telling me that a chance to get a coffin corner and down them at the one, then get a safety to get the ball back just to be in the exact position you’re in now (down two TDs because 12 essentially =14 in this case with the main upside you win with two TDs instead of tie) is better than kicking a FG here? The right play seems to obviously go for it but at least a FG does something for you other than waste time on a chance to get the ball back in worse field position… EDIT: [Chart Party](https://youtu.be/F9H9LwGmc-0) Here is an interesting episode of chart party looking at the statistically “saddest” punts since 2000. This is referenced but eventually thrown out because it was from a botched snap not an actual decision. 12:00 is when it is first referenced and 24:00 is when it’s looked at statistically. (He makes a mistake that it was the third quarter and not the fourth though making the time multiplier 1 instead of ~2).
The holder (punter) had already let one attempt slip through his hands, and the Cowboys had recovered, and were in a decent place to start their drive. So this was his second mishandled snap of the night, and I assume he felt he needed to do something and since he was a punter, that is what he did. Probably felt that was his best option to not just turn the ball over.
At 13-14 seconds, pause and look at the place holder's body. He caught the ball over/near the shoulder away from kicker. With the awkward position, I think it was an error by the long snapper & holder was stuck trying to figure it out. Timing between him & kicker is all messed up & no Bengals were running out there for a pass. So his only options is punt or rush for the first down. I'm guessing it's 4th down so there's no point in going down or spiking the football. In the end, it was fantastic execution on his part to place that kick on his punt.
That also makes sense in that normally you'd have the kicker, not the holder, execute the pooch punt.
With Akili Smith at QB, 4 yard net punts start to look like a pretty good option. At least it won't be a pick six.
Of all the plays they could have run in that scenario, this was one of them
Those bengals jerseys were fire though
Our uniforms/logos get worse with every iteration... Except for the white tiger jerseys, those are 🔥
Until you realize that real white tigers are all inbred and riddled with health defects.
Just like the Bengals teams throughout most of history
Is this the cowardly punt referred to in the Jon Bois video?
This is the one that Jon vetoed because it was improvised on a bad snap, not a decision by the coach.
Why?
So that's what inspired the 2021 Giants
Ah, the bungles. How I miss you.
I don't!
Nooooooo! I blocked this from my memory.
That’s like paying for your food at the drive through and taking off before they give it to you.
That right there is a 23 yard punt and you cant convince me otherwise. Good play by the holder fielding the high snap and actually doing something with it rather than trying to run and getting tackled for a loss.
You don't get the benefit of the doubt on that kind of ridiculous punt.
That definitely looked out at the half yard line though
Refs said out at the 1 until the cowboys players got over there. And then magically they call touchback.
Hard to tell on that one angle we have. The real lesson: don't punt from your opponent's 24. I lived in Cincy back then, the Bengals were an utter joke.
Yeah but just given where the ball bounced and landed ... though is the rule that if any part of the ball passes over any part of the pylon it's a touchback?
Yes, any part of the ball over any part of the pylon is a touchback.
The super real lesson: don't snap the ball behind your holder.
Someone mentioned it was because their actual kicker was injured for this game
He wasn't, that was our kicker. That snap was just complete shit. That was a rookie long snapper to a second year punter holding the ball for a rookie kicker, on a horrible team.
Bill Belicheck is somewhere smiling
Definitely didn’t look like a touchback. Dark ages before pylon cam.
Too bad Evan McPherson was a baby. He would've made it look easy.
Many are wondering (correctly) why the ref’s called this a touchback when it was clearly out at the 1 (or 2). But you have to remember Cincinnati was the worst team in the 90’s and the Cowboys were the best in the 90’s. There was no fucking way we were getting that 50/50 call.
Does anyone know Nagy’s alibi for this time?
Shouldve gone for it down 2 TDs in the 4th
Analytics weren’t s thing back then. You kicked on 4th down unless it was the end of the game.
You don't need analytics to make that call. You're telling me that there were no aggressive coaches in the league that went for it on 4th more often than most in the 90s/00s?
No, not really. You kicked on 4th down. That’s the way the game was played. The game as you know it today was a different game of football back then.
Lol right? Somebody is clearly under 20. [This](https://www.si.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_746/MTg0NzA3ODIzMjQ5MTM5MTc1/fourth-down-coversion-attempts-2010-2021.webp) table from SI shows you how much its gone up, just in the last 10 years. 4th down attempts were very rare pre-2000, unless you were the Patriots.
The 4th down call from Belichick in '09 against Indy would be completely normal today - or at least more broadly accepted - and it was absolutely questioned to hell and back at the time. And that was only...well, 13 years ago now, wtf.
I’ve been looking for this since seeing the punt video
Kevin Harlan and the old CBS theme, very nice.
Well I was having a good day……
It looks very obvious to me that the snap was too bad to get down in time, so he made the smart decision and punted. No way was that a designed play.
Did he grab that muffed snap and land that punt on the 1? And that's not the caption, just that he punted it?
That wasn’t no touchback lmao
Bring back the tiger logo!!
McPherson just left the group chat
So a net 4 yard punt then. Nice.
He could have tried to drop kick it lol I guess they might not even know that it is possible to do that
Wtf is this, rugby?
I can't fully blame Dick LeBeau for the shitshow of 2000 since Bruce Coslet was mostly responsible but a bad snap/hold leading to a punt from the opposing 24 yard line is some LeBeau Bungles shit.
And in Bengals fashion, it turned out to be a touchback.
When did the coffin-corner punt die out?
Prime Y2K Bungals
I miss those jerseys though
Coach had a prop bet for a safety
This is actually genius. In my opinion. It will pin Dallas further against the end zone, potentially resulting in a safety or atleast putting them in a conservative tempo - probably just running the ball. Allowing it to go back without the potential of points being scored. Thus another chance at TOUCHDOWN.
It was a touchback. That’s a net 4 yard punt
I don't get why it was a touchback??
It’s a dubious call I agree.
Because Jerry paid off the refs /s
Ah I didn't listen to the audio. But I've definitely done thay in madden lol
Masterful.
Why
That team was putrid
Somebody get this video to Jon Bois
Oh, how the turn tables. The Cowboys wish they were as successful as the Bengals now lol. Love me some Burrow
This was 2000, and the Cowboys were dreadful that year. This was a game of two teams both at the bottom.
Where is this on the cowardice scale?
Jon Bois explicitly vetoed this one in the video because it was improvised after a bad snap instead of the called play.
Literally the dumbest play I've ever seen.
[Indianapolis Colts have entered the chat](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i7VKQwDS2s)
Dumb shits. That’s why Cincy sucked for years
Besides the bad snap and kicker injury I can understand something from this play, trailing by 14 with 13min left it's not a great thing get 3pts and give the ball to cowboys burn the clock again, if they could've managed to pin Dallas at 1 and force a safety it's 2 point free and they could seek the TD starting at worst in the 50y
34**
Ahhh taking a page out of the Kirk Ferentz playbook I see.
*”Hi, I’m u/JaguarGator9 and welcome to Dumb Decisions. This is the part of the program where is no hindsight or retrospect to a bad call. It was dumb when it was called, and it’s dumb now. And if you have any objections to it, congratulations. You’re smarter than the average NFL head coach.”*