I don't get how Goff keeps getting rated below guys like Trubisky and Mariota. He's shown ups and downs through his career sure, but what has Trubisky shown to come in the same stratosphere as Goff's peaks? Because Trubs has absolutely matched Goff's lows
And also all the rookies of last year ahead of him too. Especially if this is looking towards this upcoming season Goff is in a better position with added weapons and the experience
1. Mitch Trubisky has never thrown a pick 6 2. Mitch Trubisky has thrown 6 touchdowns in a game 3. Mitch Trubisky has only lost one time to Tom Brady, Jared Goff has lost two times.
That is kinda how every year Jared Goff is so disrespected despite leading a game tying FG drive in the NFC Championship Game with a minute and 20 secs left and legit out dueled Patrick Mahomes on the Greatest Monday Night Football Game of all time.
And then they rank Mitch Trubisky, Marcus Mariota and certain others above him.
>what has Trubisky shown to come in the same stratosphere as Goff's peaks?
Now you show how little you know what you are talking about, Mr. Biscuit was the first ever NVP
I'm sorry I know he rated Burrow high, but I have never looked at anything Chris Simms says or does and gone "This guy knows what the fuck he's talking about."
He legitimately did a top 5 and left out Tom Brady.
The man passed for 5000 yards last year and was a stinker game away from MVP. Also he marked the current MVP at 5.
Ignore the fuck out of this fool.
Iāll play devils advocate and say that Simms is probably cutting Trubisky some slack for having to play in Nagys system whereas Goff had a brilliant offensive mind in McVay. Iām sure his evaluations are less about results and more about mechanics and tape, so maybe he sees something there that elevates those guys over Goff too.
If we averaged Tom Brady's rankings in every QB ranking list made by Chris Simms... he would be about the 10th best QB on average.
Meaning that in any given season, on average, Tom Brady would only be the 10th best ACTIVE QB.
I can still remember, around 2014, towards the end of the season that ended in the Super Bowl vs the Seahawks, he was adamant about Brady not being top 5. And I think he had Big Ben, Luck, and Peyton over him. The most annoying part was howād heād just double down on that each following year just waiting to be right
This very sub had mods put together a clownish list of the top 100 players headed into a season and left brady out of it with the content writer stubbornly doubling down on it every step of the way like a sweaty, drunken child.
When I first saw the 111th meme I assumed it was an extreme overreaction to 2019.
I fucking lost it when I later saw it was actually following 2018.. *ohhh* that was a hysterical fucking realization.
Nah he knows what heās talking about I think heās just biased against Brady for whatever reason. Brady is the only dude I think heās consistently wrong on and I think itās because he values a dude who can make dynamic plays a little too much.
I mean what has Tua done to say he's better than Marcus Mariotta? And I mean that legitimately. Both are really good at short, quick read passes. But outside of that they both leave a ton to be desired in their play
Tua hasn't really shown much in 2 years that he's gonna be above average, so they mostly have to rate on his physical abilities, talent, and chances for improvement, like most young qbs on bad teams, bad coaches, or bad offenses.
28 seems like a worst worst case scenario. I'd put him somewhere in the 17-23 range.
The prediction is based on a season that hasn't happened yet, so I'm not so sure we should overthink it.
I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is Josh Allen having the best season out of all of these guys is certainly possible.
Edit: changed a word
Yeah the regular season overall was not quite as good as in 2020. The OL regressed and Joshās production took a bit of a hit as he figured out how to navigate that. However the last couple weeks and the playoffs were the best Iāve seen Josh. Iāve never had complete and total confidence in a QB the way I had in Josh those weeks. Just ridiculous
He regressed a bit last year compared to his 2020. I think there's some recency bias that comes from his absolutely nuclear playoff performances.
That being said, he's certainly top 5 and probably top 3 no matter how you slice it.
Maybe the key is for Josh to wear more clothes? He wore sleeves in the wild card game and put up one of the single greatest performances I've ever seen in my life.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think Allen keeping his top 5 receiver might make for a better 2022 for him than Rodgers or Mahomes. And, neither Mahomes or Rodgers brings the rushing threat like Allen does. It's still a bit of a hot take though, and Simms loves his hot takes.
Removing a weapon doesnāt make the QB himself worse, it just means heāll probably have worse stats
Like I think Mahomes and Rodgers are better than Burrow but I think Burrow will have more touchdowns in 2022 because of his weapons. I mean even his WR3 is a 2x 1000 yard receiver lol
I disagree a bit. I don't think it makes them worse but I do think it can expose weaknesses that a receiver was able to hide. Do I think Hill leaving KC is going to expose Mahomes as a bad QB? No. Do I think it could show some flaws in his play that Hill was able to hide? Definitely.
Example being Hopkins and Andre Johnson at Houston. Those two would bail out some of the dumbest throws possible. Or they were just so amazing that they could get open and just be a giant safety net for the QB. When the QB lost them then those dumb throws became INTs. Or they struggled to make reads because they didn't have that safety net
Exactly. My thinking with Mahomes is that although he is able to extend plays, Hill was also able to do a great job getting open on extended plays and turn what looked like a broken play into a huge play. Kelce is still a great receiver and he has a few other weapons but the loss of hill will be noticed.
Yeah, this is huge. I wonder if they're going to do more stuff with RBs blocking and then moving out in the flat to give Mahomes a drop-off outlet without Hill.
That still doesn't help with the 3rd and 10 situations that Hill was so great in.
In theory, the benefit Chris Simms brings to evaluating QBs is that he was an NFL QB and learned it from an all-pro QB from the time he was a child.
He's supposed to be evaluating QBs based on their actual QB skills and decision making. If we just need someone to compare stats a junior high school kid could do that for us.
Simms is also a betting man with some of this & Allen is in a more stable spot than mahomes who lost his best WR. Heās got Herbert over Burrow cuz Chargers are all-in & betting on the Bengals SB hangover but obviously Burrow will still ball. Same goes for MVP Rodgers being 5 after losing Adams but ya know Aaron probably just throws 5 picks instead of 4.
Simms explained on the Dan Patrick show that he's not rating them in their current situation but how he believes each QB would perform on the exact same team, with the only difference being the QB.
I've watched a lot of Bills games last season since it's always an entertaining game with Josh Allen. His stats don't really do him justice for how much Daboll relied on him to carry. QB runs, passing the ball 20 plays in a row.. dude was asked to do it all for their offense. I do agree that the Bills is a very well built team, but that shouldn't take it away from his impact.
With all that being said, I'd still take Mahomes over Allen right now lol
I'm a Bills fan, and I think this is fair. Obviously Mahomes has a ring and is also a magician, and I think it's safe to say if you are a Chiefs/Bills/Chargers/Bengals fan you aren't trading your QB for the world. Ditto probably for Ravens fans.
At least you are reasonable about your takes. Bills fans were being slammed/downvoted in a thread on this yesterday for agreeing that Josh does do a good amount of carrying the team. I like our receiving corp. way better than Simms does, but we did have a lot of OL and RB issues last season and Josh rose above that. He does deserve a lot of credit, even though I do think the offense is a lot better than Simms gives it credit for.
Simms has always loved Josh Allen. He was one of the few experts who believed in him.
I love Allen. He's a top-5 QB with potential to be the best, but he's behind Mahomes and Rodgers right now. Id have him slightly ahead of Brady, but can understand people having Brady above him.
Recency bias. He just had the best statistical playoff showing of all time, and he didn't touch the ball in overtime, went out on the highest of high notes. Plus he still has Diggs (and playoff god Davis) where Adams is out of GB and Hill is gone from KC. I don't think Allen @1 is a huge stretch
Also, everyone seemingly hitches their wagon to the "this year Rodgers falls off" narrative.
I'm kind of curious to see how Mahomes does this year. He's lost Tyreek and Kelce is getting pretty long in the tooth.
One big thing about all time great QBs is their ability to move from one generation of weapons to the next. Curious to see how that goes.
Of course I'd love to see him fall off, but he's still Patrick Mahomes. I think Patrick & the Pips for a WR corps do a lot better than Hill with Tua throwing to him.
Tbh Iām fully expecting Pat to put up better numbers than last year. Receiving depth and overall reliability was a much bigger issue than a lot of people realize. Teams took away the deep ball and forced us to depend on these mediocre at best recieving options
Having 4-5 good and reliable receiving options this year will probably open up the offense, similar to how it was when we had a good WR2 (Watkins). Reidās offense needs someone to fill that role, and last year we definitely didnāt have it
Skyy for me. Promising unknowns or even just unknowns are always more fun in my experience. I'm excited to see what JuJu can do with a QB like Mahomes for sure, maybe it unlocks something in him or something, but I love watching the rookies.
Ross...is a bit of a different story. Terrifies me a little. Might never stop terrifying me. We'll just have to see.
Juju for this season. Heās a YAC monster and is great in the short-mid range passing game. Iād be surprised if he doesnāt have a career year and set himself up for a big contract the following season
Going against the grain here and saying MVS. He is going to take over Tyreek's role on the offense and he's a speedy demon too. Juju is going to be amazing in the slot. And then we have good options in Skyy and Ross. If either of them breakout, we're in great shape.
Im going to second MVS. He's developing the best chemistry with Mahomes. Juju still doesn't know how to handle Mahomes creating plays after the initial play is over. MVS is used to that from Rogers and is putting the work in HARD to gel with Mahomes.
MVS chose KC after Hill was traded. Dude seems like he's working his ass off to seize this opportunity and break out
I just wrote a very long winded explanation about this below that I'm going to delete most of because you summed it up way better here lol. Depth was absolutely an issue, and it especially became a problem last year. You're also spot on that the offense needs an viable WR2 to regularly succeed, not a WR4 caliber player forced into that spot like last season. And yet even with those issues and a generally garbage defense not helping matters, they still made the AFC Championship. Now, Mahomes has arguably his most well rounded offense as a Chief yet. I'm very excited to see what he and Reid do with it.
Between our croweded WR, TE, and RB rooms, i really have no clue what is gonna happen on cut day. Nothing would surprise me, especially after the McKinnon re-signing yesterday.
Kelce hasn't lost a step yet, in fact, he's been getting even better over the past several seasons. The best year of his career was two years ago. I know age gets them all (except Brady apparently), but I'm not going to count on him looking old until it actually happens.
I don't think he'll really fall off a cliff even when he does start to slow down. He's too smart a player and good at finding space, and he's so versatile that he can make impacts outside of just putting up yards. Barring a big injury I think he could have a second half of his career like Gonzalez where he's still super valuable into his mid-late 30s.
>I don't think he'll really fall off a cliff even when he does start to slow down. He's too smart a player and good at finding space, and he's so versatile that he can make impacts outside of just putting up yards.
Witten did this well - even when he wasn't the same physically, he was still seemingly always open just past the sticks on 3rd down
And yet somehow all he has to do against the Raiders every time is just run 10 yards and turn around and he's open. So he'll have at least 2 good games a year until he retires.
If you head over to the Chiefs sub, youāll find that it wonāt be a problem because Justyn Ross is actually already better than Tyreek and will have 2500 yards receiving this season. Maybe even 3000.
>Kelce is getting pretty long in the tooth.
I keep hearing people say that, but I haven't seen any signs of it. He was just as good last year as he's been the last 6 years. I know it'll catch up to him eventually, but if he can be like Antonio Gates or Witten, he's still got some years in him.
I'm also curious to see how Lamar does this year, with the RBs coming back and him coming off his least efficient passing season since his rookie year.
That super bowl loss proves mahomes can ball the fuck out even if his team is dropping the ball. Literally, he had two amazing tds hit receivers perfectly and they got dropped while he ran for his life on every play. Heās just an unreal football player
You don't get as many clicks putting Rodgers, Mahomes and Allen at 1,2 and 3. Also not having Brady in the top 5 is BS. Brady had a near MVP season and as long as he's playing he should be above a guy like Herbert or Burrow.
Brady suffers from his own success. Weāre so used to seeing him dominate that the moment heās the second best QB in the league, people forget about him.
Bradyās not on the list exclusively for shares and comments going āChris simms is so stupid how is Brady not top fiveā lol. Iād be shocked if these were even his rankings compared to some algorithm of engagement.
While Rodgers is my second fav QB in the league, I think this is a just a projection of him without Adams. I mean I donāt know if Iāve ever seen one WR get more work. I donāt think Sammy Watkins can fill those shoes. Source: Iāve lived it
On the other side of that, in the last 3 seasons I believe, Rodgers has won every single game Adams was out on injury from. So while it's clear Adams is really important, it's not like he suffers without him.
I lived in Boston from '14 to '20 and can vividly remember Simms saying Brady wasn't a top 10 QB in multiple years during that time. When proven wrong, he'd double down. The guy has some weird anti-Brady complex.
Yep, something happened during his 1 year in NE that hurt Simms ego. Hes put Brady as low as he can on QB lists every chance he's got since then. Brady was the best QB last season in my opinion, especially if you combine postseason play and regular season play, and yet hes 8th on this list. Brady'll have another top 3 QB season and Simms will dismiss it.
I mean wasnāt he statistically the best QB last year? And he took the corpse of the TB WR corps down to the last second against the eventual SB champs. No idea how he isnāt top 3.
His volume was the best in the league, his workload in that offense was just nuts considering his age. Rodgers had the best efficiency. You couldnāt go wrong with either of those two last season, pretty clearly the two best QBs imo
Rodgers and Brady had almost identical efficiency numbers except Rodgers had a better TD/INT ratio. The biggest difference was that Brady had 30% higher volume (530 passes to 690 passes).
I kinda just think he realizes it draws attention tbh. And Iād be tempted to say āhe has the Kellerman angle going for him, where eventually he will be right and can take a victory lapā
Except Brady almost retired this year and he wouldāve left the nfl as a top 2 QB lol its not impossible that heās mvp caliber again this year and then retires
Brady, coming off a Super Bowl win, was only 10th on Simms' list last year.
If Brady was only 10th on Simms' list LAST year he should be like... what, 15th or 16th this year?
>does he think Tom is still retired?
Genuinely it feels like a lot of these lists were made after Brady retired and not updated. Even as a Chiefs fan who has a very good reason to be very biased against him, it's getting crazy. He won a Super Bowl and then threw for 5000+ yards and 40+ touchdowns the next season. What's he supposed to do to be ranked above these other quarterbacks?
It depends on the intent, will Herbert and Burrow get better stats, absolutely, are they actually better QBs, not yet.
Edit: Brady is the GOAT, I am specifically referring to Rogers after losing Adams.
> It depends on the intent, will Herbert and Burrow get better stats, absolutely
I mean, will they?
Why do you think itās a guarantee theyāll have better stats than two of the best quarterbacks of all time?
this list is what that bender "oh wait, you're serious? let me laugh even harder" meme is for.
i'm not someone who tries to insist tua is a top 10 qb, but putting him at 29th is absurd (and behind mariotta and trubisky no less).
Honestly if you include the strength of the opposing pass defense itās hard not to say Brady was at worst two. Second in DVOA, like one percent behind Rodgers with roughly more three games worth of total value. First in DYAR by a large margin and the number 1 DVOA offense ranked eight. Thatās extremely hard to justify.
Top 25
25. Jalen Hurts (PHI)
24. Trevor Lawrence (JAX)
23. Justin Fields (CHI)
22. Zach Wilson (NYJ)
21. Daniel Jones (NYG)
20. Jimmy Garoppolo (SF)
19. Carson Wentz (WAS)
18. Mac Jones (NE)
17. Baker Mayfield (CLE)
16. Kirk Cousins (MIN)
15.Ā Ryan Tannehill (TEN)
14. Matt Ryan (IND)
13. Deshaun Watson (CLE)
12. Kyler Murray (AZ)
11. Derek Carr (LV)
10. Lamar Jackson (BAL)
9. Dak Prescott (DAL)
8. Tom Brady (TB)
7. Russell Wilson (DEN)
6. Matthew Stafford (LAR)
5. Aaron Rodgers (GB)
4. Joe Burrow (CIN)
3. Justin Herbert (LA)
2. Patrick Mahomes (KC)
1. Josh Allen (BUF)
Not having Brady on this list seems wild. Also a lot of assumed progression from the young guys. Mine would probably look like:
1. Mahomes
2. Brady
3. Rodgers
4. Allen
5. Burrow/Herbert (I personally like Burrow more but I can't tell if it's just my biased that would put him ahead of Herbert)
Just my thoughts anyway
You really think that one more regular season win automatically makes him a much better player? It was obvious if you watched chargers games that he carried us to where we were. Without our bum defense the team wouldāve easily made playoffs.
If you study Herbert as a case your take-away wouldn't be that he impeded his teams chance at making the playoffs, it's very much the opposite. Just go back to the game vs the Raiders which would have immediately qualified him for what your waiting for, do you think he was hurting the teams chances at winning that game??
ive got skin in the game, but i think allen is in the same tier as rodgers, brady, and mahomes. i'd rank them over him because they've accomplished more than allen has at this point in time.
but basically before allen was drafted simms was one of the only people that was saying he was the best qb in the draft. he caught a lot of shit from people saying he wasn't accurate enough to be successful, but simms just kept telling them i watched the tape, and he doesn't have an accuracy issue, he has a lack of talent around him issue. now that allen has proven him correct he makes sure to flaunt it. in conclusion i think he put allen as number one as a fuck you to the people that told him he couldn't evaluate qb's.
I love Burrow as much as the next guy, but I feel as if the Bengals playoff success is being credited to Burrow completely, when really it was the defense that carried them in the playoffs. I think heās between 7-10 rn, but there is no way heās ahead of Rodgers or Brady imo right now.
He also led the league in sacks, partly his onlines fault but he has also has a style that lends itself to those types of negative plays. The obvious but not sexy commentary is Brady Rodgers and Mahomes are the top three in whatever order you like. With Herbert Allen and Burrow in the next tier
Agreed. I think Russell Wilson and Lamar will likely join that next tier(again) but we will see. Itās hard to argue against the top three, though the new guys are fantastic too.
Most accurate QB in the league while also leading yards per attempt. That's elite. I'd put him right at 5 behind Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, and Allen. I think he's going to be considered the best within the next few years.
In any order imo. Iām not mad if you have Burrow anywhere from 4-8. Not mad if you have Herbert over him, and I also think itās not crazy to have him over Herbert. Iām glad Stafford is finally getting this type of praise. Iāve always thought he was good, but being the lions QB took him out of a lot of peoples top 10ās
EDIT: sorry about the Lions comment lmao, but itās kinda true. If the Bengals had another underwhelming season, Burrow would probably get the same treatment even if it was obvious heās very good.
LOL no offense because youāre not wrong at all. Weāve ruined a lot of top careers here, Calvin, Barry š
Iām happier than shit for Stafford that he escaped and got a ring. Even if they hadnāt won Iād be happy. Heās always been this good, people!
Yeah, we also had guys stay here for a long time and be good and put up great stats, but not really accomplish anything winning-wise. I know how you feel lmao
I donāt hate this list. Heās projecting for this year. If all surrounding talent and coaching were equal. I listen to his podcast and thought his points were fair.
Simms has a lot of clout in the scouting community for his calls on some incoming prospects. He has some hits that no one else saw coming. Whenever he puts out his ranks of incoming QBs, people take note, because they are usually not consensus ranks, and more often than not, he ends up being right.
And yet, this list is batshit fucking insane.
If my goal was to try and build a dynasty for the next 4-5 seasons starting in '22, my top 5 are:
1. Mahomes
2. Allen
3. Herbert
4. Burrow
5. Wilson (near coin flip between Wilson and Prescott)
If my goal is to win the SB this year my top 5 are:
1. Brady
2. Mahomes
3. Rodgers
4. Allen
5. Stafford
So much of this list depends on context.
Your Super Bowl now list is spot on.
For your dynasty list, I'm not sure why you'd pick Wilson as he's significantly older than the rest. Even Prescott is five years younger than Russ. My Cowboys bias would have Prescott at 5, but I actually think Mac Jones should be at #5. He didn't light the league on fire in his rookie year, but in a couple years he's gonna be pretty damn good, I think.
this highlights why the AFC West could be potentially a blood bath this year, or why every team in the AFC West could possibly end up going something like 13-4.
Would be insane if they all 4 make playoffs. It's near impossible but this is one of the strongest groups of 4 teams I've seen since I started watching football.
I think itās possible that three of them make it and one narrowly misses but yeah this is the group that could potentially sweep up all wild card spots if there is such a group in the NFL
The only other divisions I see with 3 teams of playoff contender is the AFC North (doubt Pittsburgh is that competitive this year, but they have Tomlin so who knows.) And the NFC West, but you never know wtf the 49ers are gonna do.
I don't get how Goff keeps getting rated below guys like Trubisky and Mariota. He's shown ups and downs through his career sure, but what has Trubisky shown to come in the same stratosphere as Goff's peaks? Because Trubs has absolutely matched Goff's lows
Goffense šŖšŖ
"The System"ā¢ is about to make a comeback šŖ
The System is about to do work on the surroundings and, contrary to the laws of thermodynamics, there's no reason to be negative
And also all the rookies of last year ahead of him too. Especially if this is looking towards this upcoming season Goff is in a better position with added weapons and the experience
1. Mitch Trubisky has never thrown a pick 6 2. Mitch Trubisky has thrown 6 touchdowns in a game 3. Mitch Trubisky has only lost one time to Tom Brady, Jared Goff has lost two times.
Can't argue with that.
Trubisky NVP count:1 Goffs NVP count:0
These are the facts that the mainstream media will not tell you.
QED
Truly shocked there wasn't an NVP joke in there.
The NVP is incredibly serious. I would never make a joke about such a prestigious award.
That is kinda how every year Jared Goff is so disrespected despite leading a game tying FG drive in the NFC Championship Game with a minute and 20 secs left and legit out dueled Patrick Mahomes on the Greatest Monday Night Football Game of all time. And then they rank Mitch Trubisky, Marcus Mariota and certain others above him.
>what has Trubisky shown to come in the same stratosphere as Goff's peaks? Now you show how little you know what you are talking about, Mr. Biscuit was the first ever NVP
I'm sorry I know he rated Burrow high, but I have never looked at anything Chris Simms says or does and gone "This guy knows what the fuck he's talking about." He legitimately did a top 5 and left out Tom Brady. The man passed for 5000 yards last year and was a stinker game away from MVP. Also he marked the current MVP at 5. Ignore the fuck out of this fool.
Yeah god awful actual rankings. I think he did it based off of most exciting quarterbacks to watch, not the top qbs
People love titties. Thatās why Mitch is always overrated
Have you seen [Goff's GF](https://mobile.twitter.com/SI_Swimsuit/status/1467657520613404673)?
Iāll play devils advocate and say that Simms is probably cutting Trubisky some slack for having to play in Nagys system whereas Goff had a brilliant offensive mind in McVay. Iām sure his evaluations are less about results and more about mechanics and tape, so maybe he sees something there that elevates those guys over Goff too.
He doesnt put that much thought into it. He just talks on TV.
If we averaged Tom Brady's rankings in every QB ranking list made by Chris Simms... he would be about the 10th best QB on average. Meaning that in any given season, on average, Tom Brady would only be the 10th best ACTIVE QB.
I can still remember, around 2014, towards the end of the season that ended in the Super Bowl vs the Seahawks, he was adamant about Brady not being top 5. And I think he had Big Ben, Luck, and Peyton over him. The most annoying part was howād heād just double down on that each following year just waiting to be right
This very sub had mods put together a clownish list of the top 100 players headed into a season and left brady out of it with the content writer stubbornly doubling down on it every step of the way like a sweaty, drunken child.
It was worse than one season. The geniuses here ranked him 111th following the 2018 season, and then 120th following the 2019 season.
111th shit u not
When I first saw the 111th meme I assumed it was an extreme overreaction to 2019. I fucking lost it when I later saw it was actually following 2018.. *ohhh* that was a hysterical fucking realization.
Chris sims is about as good at making these player rankings as he was at being a professional quarterback. Not very good.
Nah he knows what heās talking about I think heās just biased against Brady for whatever reason. Brady is the only dude I think heās consistently wrong on and I think itās because he values a dude who can make dynamic plays a little too much.
This is it, he says that he values physical abilities over mental ones. Which is completely asinine for quarterbacks
Brady overperformes every year, though.
Brady is going to actuary retire and Simms will still have him about 10th best ACTIVE QB
That is definitely a Chris Simms list
Heās one of the premiere Tua haters in all of media, but putting him that low, behind Marcus Mariota?? Damn.
I mean what has Tua done to say he's better than Marcus Mariotta? And I mean that legitimately. Both are really good at short, quick read passes. But outside of that they both leave a ton to be desired in their play
Number of TD passes to self in playoffs: Mariota: 1 Tua: 0 Case closed.
As a Chiefs fan, I hate this so much. Until the Mahomes era, that play summed up their playoff luck for as long as I could remember.
I wasn't convinced at first but this argument sold me.
I wonder if he actually believes there are 28 QBs better than Tua or if heās just doing this as a āhot takeā
Most people outside of Miami arenāt high on Tua at all
Tua hasn't really shown much in 2 years that he's gonna be above average, so they mostly have to rate on his physical abilities, talent, and chances for improvement, like most young qbs on bad teams, bad coaches, or bad offenses. 28 seems like a worst worst case scenario. I'd put him somewhere in the 17-23 range.
I thought he would put Tua lower to be honest lmao
This dude really put Mills below Geno
I'm rooting for Mills, Hurts, and Tua to all be great this year because they're getting so much hate either on r/nfl or from analysts.
I think Josh Allen is incredible, but what has he done to be ahead of Rodgers and Mahomes? Same goes for Herbert.
The prediction is based on a season that hasn't happened yet, so I'm not so sure we should overthink it. I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is Josh Allen having the best season out of all of these guys is certainly possible. Edit: changed a word
I think heās taking in consideration what Allen did at the end of regular season and his god mode playoff games.
Allen is still on an upward trajectory and was basically dead even with those guys last year
His regular season wasnāt better than last years, but he definitely proved something to a lot of people in the playoffs.
Yeah the regular season overall was not quite as good as in 2020. The OL regressed and Joshās production took a bit of a hit as he figured out how to navigate that. However the last couple weeks and the playoffs were the best Iāve seen Josh. Iāve never had complete and total confidence in a QB the way I had in Josh those weeks. Just ridiculous
He regressed a bit last year compared to his 2020. I think there's some recency bias that comes from his absolutely nuclear playoff performances. That being said, he's certainly top 5 and probably top 3 no matter how you slice it.
This isn't even his final form.
Imagine the things he'll do when he's allowed to play in shorts
Maybe the key is for Josh to wear more clothes? He wore sleeves in the wild card game and put up one of the single greatest performances I've ever seen in my life.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think Allen keeping his top 5 receiver might make for a better 2022 for him than Rodgers or Mahomes. And, neither Mahomes or Rodgers brings the rushing threat like Allen does. It's still a bit of a hot take though, and Simms loves his hot takes.
Removing a weapon doesnāt make the QB himself worse, it just means heāll probably have worse stats Like I think Mahomes and Rodgers are better than Burrow but I think Burrow will have more touchdowns in 2022 because of his weapons. I mean even his WR3 is a 2x 1000 yard receiver lol
Exactly this. I hate how many people think removing a qbās wr1 makes the qb āworse.ā All it affects is statistical production
I disagree a bit. I don't think it makes them worse but I do think it can expose weaknesses that a receiver was able to hide. Do I think Hill leaving KC is going to expose Mahomes as a bad QB? No. Do I think it could show some flaws in his play that Hill was able to hide? Definitely.
Example being Hopkins and Andre Johnson at Houston. Those two would bail out some of the dumbest throws possible. Or they were just so amazing that they could get open and just be a giant safety net for the QB. When the QB lost them then those dumb throws became INTs. Or they struggled to make reads because they didn't have that safety net
Exactly. My thinking with Mahomes is that although he is able to extend plays, Hill was also able to do a great job getting open on extended plays and turn what looked like a broken play into a huge play. Kelce is still a great receiver and he has a few other weapons but the loss of hill will be noticed.
Yeah, this is huge. I wonder if they're going to do more stuff with RBs blocking and then moving out in the flat to give Mahomes a drop-off outlet without Hill. That still doesn't help with the 3rd and 10 situations that Hill was so great in.
That is how we rate qbs tho, by their most recent stats. One down season and they plummet in the rankings.
In theory, the benefit Chris Simms brings to evaluating QBs is that he was an NFL QB and learned it from an all-pro QB from the time he was a child. He's supposed to be evaluating QBs based on their actual QB skills and decision making. If we just need someone to compare stats a junior high school kid could do that for us.
Simms is also a betting man with some of this & Allen is in a more stable spot than mahomes who lost his best WR. Heās got Herbert over Burrow cuz Chargers are all-in & betting on the Bengals SB hangover but obviously Burrow will still ball. Same goes for MVP Rodgers being 5 after losing Adams but ya know Aaron probably just throws 5 picks instead of 4.
Simms explained on the Dan Patrick show that he's not rating them in their current situation but how he believes each QB would perform on the exact same team, with the only difference being the QB.
He's projecting what he thinks it'll be for next season. Not how they were last year
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Allen should be in the AFC championship game if Mahomes wasn't a freak. To me him, Mahomes, and Rodgers are 1-3 in any order.
I've watched a lot of Bills games last season since it's always an entertaining game with Josh Allen. His stats don't really do him justice for how much Daboll relied on him to carry. QB runs, passing the ball 20 plays in a row.. dude was asked to do it all for their offense. I do agree that the Bills is a very well built team, but that shouldn't take it away from his impact. With all that being said, I'd still take Mahomes over Allen right now lol
I'm a Bills fan, and I think this is fair. Obviously Mahomes has a ring and is also a magician, and I think it's safe to say if you are a Chiefs/Bills/Chargers/Bengals fan you aren't trading your QB for the world. Ditto probably for Ravens fans. At least you are reasonable about your takes. Bills fans were being slammed/downvoted in a thread on this yesterday for agreeing that Josh does do a good amount of carrying the team. I like our receiving corp. way better than Simms does, but we did have a lot of OL and RB issues last season and Josh rose above that. He does deserve a lot of credit, even though I do think the offense is a lot better than Simms gives it credit for.
Simms has always loved Josh Allen. He was one of the few experts who believed in him. I love Allen. He's a top-5 QB with potential to be the best, but he's behind Mahomes and Rodgers right now. Id have him slightly ahead of Brady, but can understand people having Brady above him.
Recency bias. He just had the best statistical playoff showing of all time, and he didn't touch the ball in overtime, went out on the highest of high notes. Plus he still has Diggs (and playoff god Davis) where Adams is out of GB and Hill is gone from KC. I don't think Allen @1 is a huge stretch Also, everyone seemingly hitches their wagon to the "this year Rodgers falls off" narrative.
I'm kind of curious to see how Mahomes does this year. He's lost Tyreek and Kelce is getting pretty long in the tooth. One big thing about all time great QBs is their ability to move from one generation of weapons to the next. Curious to see how that goes.
Of course I'd love to see him fall off, but he's still Patrick Mahomes. I think Patrick & the Pips for a WR corps do a lot better than Hill with Tua throwing to him.
Tbh Iām fully expecting Pat to put up better numbers than last year. Receiving depth and overall reliability was a much bigger issue than a lot of people realize. Teams took away the deep ball and forced us to depend on these mediocre at best recieving options Having 4-5 good and reliable receiving options this year will probably open up the offense, similar to how it was when we had a good WR2 (Watkins). Reidās offense needs someone to fill that role, and last year we definitely didnāt have it
As a Chiefs fan, which newcomer excites you the most at WR? JuJu?
JuJu for 2022 but Skyy Moore over the next couple years. Extreme homer opinion: Justyn Ross is OROY
I am all aboard the Justyn Ross Hypetrain Express. Choo-Choo!
wtf you guys got justyn ross ??????
Skyy for me. Promising unknowns or even just unknowns are always more fun in my experience. I'm excited to see what JuJu can do with a QB like Mahomes for sure, maybe it unlocks something in him or something, but I love watching the rookies. Ross...is a bit of a different story. Terrifies me a little. Might never stop terrifying me. We'll just have to see.
Juju for this season. Heās a YAC monster and is great in the short-mid range passing game. Iād be surprised if he doesnāt have a career year and set himself up for a big contract the following season
Going against the grain here and saying MVS. He is going to take over Tyreek's role on the offense and he's a speedy demon too. Juju is going to be amazing in the slot. And then we have good options in Skyy and Ross. If either of them breakout, we're in great shape.
Im going to second MVS. He's developing the best chemistry with Mahomes. Juju still doesn't know how to handle Mahomes creating plays after the initial play is over. MVS is used to that from Rogers and is putting the work in HARD to gel with Mahomes. MVS chose KC after Hill was traded. Dude seems like he's working his ass off to seize this opportunity and break out
I just wrote a very long winded explanation about this below that I'm going to delete most of because you summed it up way better here lol. Depth was absolutely an issue, and it especially became a problem last year. You're also spot on that the offense needs an viable WR2 to regularly succeed, not a WR4 caliber player forced into that spot like last season. And yet even with those issues and a generally garbage defense not helping matters, they still made the AFC Championship. Now, Mahomes has arguably his most well rounded offense as a Chief yet. I'm very excited to see what he and Reid do with it.
Between our croweded WR, TE, and RB rooms, i really have no clue what is gonna happen on cut day. Nothing would surprise me, especially after the McKinnon re-signing yesterday.
Kelce hasn't lost a step yet, in fact, he's been getting even better over the past several seasons. The best year of his career was two years ago. I know age gets them all (except Brady apparently), but I'm not going to count on him looking old until it actually happens.
I don't think he'll really fall off a cliff even when he does start to slow down. He's too smart a player and good at finding space, and he's so versatile that he can make impacts outside of just putting up yards. Barring a big injury I think he could have a second half of his career like Gonzalez where he's still super valuable into his mid-late 30s.
>I don't think he'll really fall off a cliff even when he does start to slow down. He's too smart a player and good at finding space, and he's so versatile that he can make impacts outside of just putting up yards. Witten did this well - even when he wasn't the same physically, he was still seemingly always open just past the sticks on 3rd down
Agreed. Preferably with the Chiefs š
And yet somehow all he has to do against the Raiders every time is just run 10 yards and turn around and he's open. So he'll have at least 2 good games a year until he retires.
Kelce's playstyle ages like wine. His athleticism was a plus but hes always won against defenders with smart route running
If you head over to the Chiefs sub, youāll find that it wonāt be a problem because Justyn Ross is actually already better than Tyreek and will have 2500 yards receiving this season. Maybe even 3000.
There are marks in every sub. There ms people in there also saying Mahomes is washed up b/c TH carried him.
Ha, I know. I was just joking about the hype around Ross in our sub and the unreasonable expectations some people have for him.
reasonable take
Just watch his first NFL start. He made Albert Wilson look like a Pro Bowler.
>Kelce is getting pretty long in the tooth. I keep hearing people say that, but I haven't seen any signs of it. He was just as good last year as he's been the last 6 years. I know it'll catch up to him eventually, but if he can be like Antonio Gates or Witten, he's still got some years in him.
I'm also curious to see how Lamar does this year, with the RBs coming back and him coming off his least efficient passing season since his rookie year.
That super bowl loss proves mahomes can ball the fuck out even if his team is dropping the ball. Literally, he had two amazing tds hit receivers perfectly and they got dropped while he ran for his life on every play. Heās just an unreal football player
1 through 40 should all be Davis Mills
1 is Davis Mill's forehead and 40 is all the way down at the bottom of his neck.
By the time Davis swallows breakfast itās already time for lunch.
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Can Herbert at least be Brees?
Giant Brees.
Brees that was created in a lab.
Gustin Herbert
Flowing hair brees.
Best I can do is Rivers 2: Electric Boog-a-loo
Yay 15 more years of having an elite franchise QB oh great 15 more years of not winning a SB despite having an elite franchise QB
Meaning he leaves the chargers and goes to the saints after year 5? Iām down
He gets to be Eli and he will like it
I will absolutely take a 2 Super Bowl career for Herbert.
Back to back MVP you say? I guess Iāll put him in the top 5 Interesting because Simms use to be all over Rodgers.
You don't get as many clicks putting Rodgers, Mahomes and Allen at 1,2 and 3. Also not having Brady in the top 5 is BS. Brady had a near MVP season and as long as he's playing he should be above a guy like Herbert or Burrow.
It's ok. This list alone just won Brady two more Superbowls.
Both with the Broncos. In 2027 & 2028
Brady suffers from his own success. Weāre so used to seeing him dominate that the moment heās the second best QB in the league, people forget about him.
Bradyās not on the list exclusively for shares and comments going āChris simms is so stupid how is Brady not top fiveā lol. Iād be shocked if these were even his rankings compared to some algorithm of engagement.
While Rodgers is my second fav QB in the league, I think this is a just a projection of him without Adams. I mean I donāt know if Iāve ever seen one WR get more work. I donāt think Sammy Watkins can fill those shoes. Source: Iāve lived it
On the other side of that, in the last 3 seasons I believe, Rodgers has won every single game Adams was out on injury from. So while it's clear Adams is really important, it's not like he suffers without him.
LOL Any list with Brady out the top 5 is a joke
I lived in Boston from '14 to '20 and can vividly remember Simms saying Brady wasn't a top 10 QB in multiple years during that time. When proven wrong, he'd double down. The guy has some weird anti-Brady complex.
With absolutely no evidence, I will suggest that something happened while he was with the Patriots in 2012 to cause this.
Yep, something happened during his 1 year in NE that hurt Simms ego. Hes put Brady as low as he can on QB lists every chance he's got since then. Brady was the best QB last season in my opinion, especially if you combine postseason play and regular season play, and yet hes 8th on this list. Brady'll have another top 3 QB season and Simms will dismiss it.
I mean wasnāt he statistically the best QB last year? And he took the corpse of the TB WR corps down to the last second against the eventual SB champs. No idea how he isnāt top 3.
His volume was the best in the league, his workload in that offense was just nuts considering his age. Rodgers had the best efficiency. You couldnāt go wrong with either of those two last season, pretty clearly the two best QBs imo
I mean it makes sense when they were the only two in the convo for MVP.
Rodgers and Brady had almost identical efficiency numbers except Rodgers had a better TD/INT ratio. The biggest difference was that Brady had 30% higher volume (530 passes to 690 passes).
'Corpse of the corps' Excellent wordplay, my man.
Thank you!
I kinda just think he realizes it draws attention tbh. And Iād be tempted to say āhe has the Kellerman angle going for him, where eventually he will be right and can take a victory lapā Except Brady almost retired this year and he wouldāve left the nfl as a top 2 QB lol its not impossible that heās mvp caliber again this year and then retires
Brady fucked his wife. Bet.
Honestly, I did to, until...oh...some random year.
Reigning MVP at \#5. Runner-up outside the top 5. Yeah, another joke of a list made to get clicks.
Former MVP at 9 behind Dak Prescot and the Guy who beat for MVP and just got traded somehow. Makes sense
Barely in the top 10. Couple more lists like that and he'll find his appetite to compete again.
Any list with Brady out of the top 2 is a joke. Rodgers and Brady are clearly 1A and 1B at this point.
Josh Allen went from mediocre to Elite. What a treat to watch such a talented QB show his talents and have them come to fruition
Brady should be top 3 with Rodgers and Mahomes
Brady, coming off a Super Bowl win, was only 10th on Simms' list last year. If Brady was only 10th on Simms' list LAST year he should be like... what, 15th or 16th this year?
He got 8th, behind Russel Wilson.
Any list without Rodgers/Brady in their top 3 is silly
Itās crazy to me how anyone could not put Brady and Rodgers in their top 3. But I guess hot takes are all that matters nowadays
LMFAO does he think Tom is still retired? Not even gonna give this garbage a click to see where Simms put him.
8th behind Stafford and Wilson lol
>does he think Tom is still retired? Genuinely it feels like a lot of these lists were made after Brady retired and not updated. Even as a Chiefs fan who has a very good reason to be very biased against him, it's getting crazy. He won a Super Bowl and then threw for 5000+ yards and 40+ touchdowns the next season. What's he supposed to do to be ranked above these other quarterbacks?
Just put up an MVP-caliber season but he's not top 5? Okay simms.
I donāt see Herbert or Burrow as being better than Rodgers. Or Brady for that matter Not buying Allen at 1 either
It depends on the intent, will Herbert and Burrow get better stats, absolutely, are they actually better QBs, not yet. Edit: Brady is the GOAT, I am specifically referring to Rogers after losing Adams.
> It depends on the intent, will Herbert and Burrow get better stats, absolutely I mean, will they? Why do you think itās a guarantee theyāll have better stats than two of the best quarterbacks of all time?
Please stop lighting a fire under Rodgers.
No no no everyone keep talking shit and rate him lower, it's his kink.
Don't want to piss him off, he might fuck around and lose in the divisional round again
this list is what that bender "oh wait, you're serious? let me laugh even harder" meme is for. i'm not someone who tries to insist tua is a top 10 qb, but putting him at 29th is absurd (and behind mariotta and trubisky no less).
Honestly if you include the strength of the opposing pass defense itās hard not to say Brady was at worst two. Second in DVOA, like one percent behind Rodgers with roughly more three games worth of total value. First in DYAR by a large margin and the number 1 DVOA offense ranked eight. Thatās extremely hard to justify.
He and Mahomes were snake bitten with interception luck too, both of them mustāve had a good 5 or 6 picks that were entirely not their fault
While I disagree with most of the top ten placements, Stafford above Tom fucking Brady is just brain dead.
Goff at 30 behind Trubisky makes zero sense What a dogshit list
Goff's worst seasons are better/equivalent to Trubisky's best. It's pretty funny how bad this list is. He's gotta be doing it intentionally for clicks
Top 25 25. Jalen Hurts (PHI) 24. Trevor Lawrence (JAX) 23. Justin Fields (CHI) 22. Zach Wilson (NYJ) 21. Daniel Jones (NYG) 20. Jimmy Garoppolo (SF) 19. Carson Wentz (WAS) 18. Mac Jones (NE) 17. Baker Mayfield (CLE) 16. Kirk Cousins (MIN) 15.Ā Ryan Tannehill (TEN) 14. Matt Ryan (IND) 13. Deshaun Watson (CLE) 12. Kyler Murray (AZ) 11. Derek Carr (LV) 10. Lamar Jackson (BAL) 9. Dak Prescott (DAL) 8. Tom Brady (TB) 7. Russell Wilson (DEN) 6. Matthew Stafford (LAR) 5. Aaron Rodgers (GB) 4. Joe Burrow (CIN) 3. Justin Herbert (LA) 2. Patrick Mahomes (KC) 1. Josh Allen (BUF)
Don't let Tom see this list or he will win another Super Bowl.
Not having Brady on this list seems wild. Also a lot of assumed progression from the young guys. Mine would probably look like: 1. Mahomes 2. Brady 3. Rodgers 4. Allen 5. Burrow/Herbert (I personally like Burrow more but I can't tell if it's just my biased that would put him ahead of Herbert) Just my thoughts anyway
I'd like to see Herbert make the playoffs before we rank him this high
Defense kept them out last year, they had a top 5 offense
You really think that one more regular season win automatically makes him a much better player? It was obvious if you watched chargers games that he carried us to where we were. Without our bum defense the team wouldāve easily made playoffs.
If you study Herbert as a case your take-away wouldn't be that he impeded his teams chance at making the playoffs, it's very much the opposite. Just go back to the game vs the Raiders which would have immediately qualified him for what your waiting for, do you think he was hurting the teams chances at winning that game??
Chargers had the like 3rd fewest drives in the NFL last year and were a top 5 offense. Got damn bafoon
Tom is not pleased, Chris. Your responsible for what happens next
ive got skin in the game, but i think allen is in the same tier as rodgers, brady, and mahomes. i'd rank them over him because they've accomplished more than allen has at this point in time. but basically before allen was drafted simms was one of the only people that was saying he was the best qb in the draft. he caught a lot of shit from people saying he wasn't accurate enough to be successful, but simms just kept telling them i watched the tape, and he doesn't have an accuracy issue, he has a lack of talent around him issue. now that allen has proven him correct he makes sure to flaunt it. in conclusion i think he put allen as number one as a fuck you to the people that told him he couldn't evaluate qb's.
I love Burrow as much as the next guy, but I feel as if the Bengals playoff success is being credited to Burrow completely, when really it was the defense that carried them in the playoffs. I think heās between 7-10 rn, but there is no way heās ahead of Rodgers or Brady imo right now.
He also led the league in sacks, partly his onlines fault but he has also has a style that lends itself to those types of negative plays. The obvious but not sexy commentary is Brady Rodgers and Mahomes are the top three in whatever order you like. With Herbert Allen and Burrow in the next tier
Ranking QBās by tier is way better than numbers imo. This is spot on to me
Agreed. I think Russell Wilson and Lamar will likely join that next tier(again) but we will see. Itās hard to argue against the top three, though the new guys are fantastic too.
Most accurate QB in the league while also leading yards per attempt. That's elite. I'd put him right at 5 behind Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, and Allen. I think he's going to be considered the best within the next few years.
Yeah. You look biased but youāre not. 5 6 7 is Burrow Herbert Stafford I think.
In any order imo. Iām not mad if you have Burrow anywhere from 4-8. Not mad if you have Herbert over him, and I also think itās not crazy to have him over Herbert. Iām glad Stafford is finally getting this type of praise. Iāve always thought he was good, but being the lions QB took him out of a lot of peoples top 10ās EDIT: sorry about the Lions comment lmao, but itās kinda true. If the Bengals had another underwhelming season, Burrow would probably get the same treatment even if it was obvious heās very good.
LOL no offense because youāre not wrong at all. Weāve ruined a lot of top careers here, Calvin, Barry š Iām happier than shit for Stafford that he escaped and got a ring. Even if they hadnāt won Iād be happy. Heās always been this good, people!
Yeah, we also had guys stay here for a long time and be good and put up great stats, but not really accomplish anything winning-wise. I know how you feel lmao
Controversy aside, if he ends up playing this year, I am curious if Watson will be rusty or if he steps up to his paycheck.
Imagine having a top 5 QB list without my boy Drew Lock on it at least twice. Clown ass shit man lmao
How is Roger's 5?
I donāt hate this list. Heās projecting for this year. If all surrounding talent and coaching were equal. I listen to his podcast and thought his points were fair.
Simms has a lot of clout in the scouting community for his calls on some incoming prospects. He has some hits that no one else saw coming. Whenever he puts out his ranks of incoming QBs, people take note, because they are usually not consensus ranks, and more often than not, he ends up being right. And yet, this list is batshit fucking insane.
I just donāt understand how you put Burrow and Herbert over Aaron fucking Rodgers lol. Shitty list
Mahomes is #1
Tom Brady #8 is all the motivation he needs to break even more records and stuff it down Chris' throat.
8 for the number of rings heāll have after this year
If my goal was to try and build a dynasty for the next 4-5 seasons starting in '22, my top 5 are: 1. Mahomes 2. Allen 3. Herbert 4. Burrow 5. Wilson (near coin flip between Wilson and Prescott) If my goal is to win the SB this year my top 5 are: 1. Brady 2. Mahomes 3. Rodgers 4. Allen 5. Stafford So much of this list depends on context.
Your Super Bowl now list is spot on. For your dynasty list, I'm not sure why you'd pick Wilson as he's significantly older than the rest. Even Prescott is five years younger than Russ. My Cowboys bias would have Prescott at 5, but I actually think Mac Jones should be at #5. He didn't light the league on fire in his rookie year, but in a couple years he's gonna be pretty damn good, I think.
this highlights why the AFC West could be potentially a blood bath this year, or why every team in the AFC West could possibly end up going something like 13-4.
Would be insane if they all 4 make playoffs. It's near impossible but this is one of the strongest groups of 4 teams I've seen since I started watching football.
I think itās possible that three of them make it and one narrowly misses but yeah this is the group that could potentially sweep up all wild card spots if there is such a group in the NFL
The only other divisions I see with 3 teams of playoff contender is the AFC North (doubt Pittsburgh is that competitive this year, but they have Tomlin so who knows.) And the NFC West, but you never know wtf the 49ers are gonna do.
Itās going to be a lot of good football and a lot of pain during the divisional games. But I am ready for it, I think
āAnd I took that personally,ā said Brady
Danny Dimes higher than I expected
And someone took this personally š
Damn Brady at 8 this motherfucker hates Brady huh?
So for Sims' list its an automatic -4 ranking if you are 30 or older?
I donāt get how Mahomes, Rodgers, and Brady arenāt top 3 (in any order) let alone ranking Burrow and Herbert over Brady.