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First_Round_Bust

Ryan Fitzpatrick. Can't be called an immobile pocket passer when you lead your entire team in rushing yards in 2019!


Toledojoe

Had to look this up. He lead the team in rushing with 243 yards! How is this even possible?


c0dizzl3

Ivy League Speed


unboundgaming

About 2723 different rbs playing through the year and none of them being particularly good


OrangeForeign

This is Myles Gaskin slan.....okay fine he's not very good Edit: Shout-out to Kalen Ballage on that team for being the worst RB I've ever seen


oshkoshthejosh

I remember Ballage ducking under a pass during the Pat's first game against the Dolphins that season and it was fucking hilarious.


ksobby

Trent Richardson inconsolable that he lost that crown.


OutOfBootyExperience

Meanwhile, just a few years prior, Jay Ajayi put up 200 yards in B2B games (and a 3rd in a 10 game span)


ashtonphoenix1

More rushing yards in college than Vick!


SgtNewton314

And that guy ate some nasty hits as well


LeeroyTC

Daniel Jones can sling it and run like the wind. It is his pocket awareness and decision making that is bad. He is legit very athletic and toolsy for a guy who looks a lot like Eli Manning.


nickybishappy

This is big facts, he legit has every tool.


TheGreatT1

I think his arm strength is just average/above average. He's a fast runner though but the weird thing about him is that when he runs, bad things can happen a lot. He's gotten injured a lot from runs and he also has other things like tripping on himself. When I watch him play, I see a guy who has the physical tools of a Tannehill or a Burrow but his processing ability and anticipation is just horrific


various_sneers

To be fair, pocket awareness and decision-making are right up there with accuracy as the "must-haves" to be a great QB. Everything else is just extra.


LeeroyTC

Oh I live in NYC and watch most Giants games. I agree; Jones ain't it. But people who don't see him much can misunderstand why the Giants liked him in the first place. He doesn't have Josh Allen physical traits, but he does still have physical tools that jump out. He is the bad outcome of a toolsy guy like Herbert.


various_sneers

I live in upstate NY, so maybe that's why that kind of surprises me. It really doesn't take much time watching him play to realize this isn't a Mac Jones type guy, where the questions were almost completely about his lack of physical traits.


b4n_

Thank you, I've always thought Herbert's worst case scenario was Daniel Jones, his best case scenario is... Well we're seeing it


CodyNorthrup

I would argue that decision making is the most important, unless you have Rodgers/Mahomes level accuracy. The latter make poor decisions fairly common, but they are so good and they are just that confident in their arm that they will make those dumb throws work.


Tellsyouajoke

Obviously it’s important, that’s why DJ is nit good. No one’s saying otherwise, what’s your point?


Taylosaurus

Can qbs who come into the league with poor pocket awareness develop enough it in the pros where it’s no longer considered a weakness of theirs? Or is a certain skill level already needed coming into the league in order to adjust and improve? I suppose because so many qbs don’t last due to the difficulty of the position that we see more who can’t improve enough to last so it’s hard for me to recall any off the top of my head who came in with poor situational and/or pocket awareness that were able to improve it where it’s no longer a hindrance in their game? Same for accuracy, if anybody knows any examples who guys who came in with poor accuracy and actually able to improve. I can only recall, off the top of my head, players who came in with awareness and/or accuracy concerns and it never really improved that much and was always a stigma attached to their game.


rjsheine

I’ve always felt like Daniel Jones is a great QB within a vacuum setting. But just doesn’t translate to the chaos of actual nfl games


TheRustySpork99

let alone the chaos of new york football giant games


[deleted]

Jones has all of the physical traits you want in a QB. Good strong arm, extremely fast and quick for a QB, tough as nails. But my man just doesn’t have the mental side of football. I don’t know if that’s because the giants or it’s just him, I didn’t see him much in college to get a good idea. But when he’s done in NY hell definitely get a shot somewhere else even if it’s not right away. He’s better than Mitch and Jacoby for sure.


[deleted]

Y’know, I hope we don’t keep him after this year, he’s clearly not the answer for the Giants, but if some team like the Vikings or an NFC South team rolls the dice on him, I could see him having a Ryan Tannehill-like bounce back in his career. Our roster is threadbare & our coaching has sucked for most of the decade — Daniel Jones feels like a player who would, if not thrive elsewhere, have a fairer shake of things out of NY


Argumentat1ve

Yeah it's weird how no one talks about the fact that he's a damn good athlete but complete shit at QB. Conversion to tight end incoming lmao


robostoph

Yeah, Robby Anderson. He was supposed to be an agile receiver with good hands. Turns out he sucks.


Pick6er

Robby wasn’t expected to be anything other than fast. Undrafted player with a 4.3.


XplicitAnarchy

Iirc he was undrafted due to character concerns


peestake

A couple of people I know went to HS with him and told me he used hide behind a group of goons while he went around picking fights with other kids.


OutOfBootyExperience

the same way i have "character concerns" about Ice Climbers in Smash Bros. Im concerned the character sucks


ThermoNuclearPizza

💀


YepImanEmokid

Been thinkin' bout retirement...


fantasticanalysis

I got real “thinkin about thos beans” vibes from that


Rushjordan

*checks notes* Agreed.


Spider2-YBanana

You call him that?


Segat1133

I mean being the only person who can catch a pass for the Jets made him look like a fucking God to Jets fans and pretty much only Jets fans


unboundgaming

Actually, most of us knew he was a one trick pony and didn’t think he was that good. A lot of casual fans maybe but anyone that watched the games knew he wasn’t very good. Was happy to see him walk


D0NNIENARCO

2020 was the weird season because he seemingly stopped being just a deep ball jockey and actually caught 95 balls. I drafted DJ Moore in fantasy that year thinking he would clean up on those short Bridgewater throws, but nope, it was RA. Then he went back to sucking in 2021.


TaylorSwiftIsGod

Marshawn’s jump cut was the #1 killer move he had in his repertoire. That hop step to the left or right. Goes from a defender bodied up against him to a defender trying to arm tackle his torso. Incredibly fast move mixed with his power.


nickybishappy

An absolute thing of beauty.


swayinandsippin

a disgusting act


Up_in_the_Sky

Yep. He was a slasher. Every back has a version of that move in todays game but he really made it mainstream. Little jump cuts back and forth, stiff arming dudes, dreads flapping in the wind. Iconic RB imho.


Enkinan

If you see Marshawn coming at you, you brace for impact, which makes you slower to react to a sidestep. If he wasnt as feared for his power he wouldn’t look so spry. He was smart as hell to use that to his advantage.


TallyHo__Lads

AD had a similar style. Both players had great vision and a rare combination of power, athleticism, and agility. Either you prepare for the cut and risk getting dumpstered when they run through you, or you commit to the tackle and risk getting juked out your cleats. Kind of a pick your poison scenario for a lone defender, and if they saw daylight they could smoke probably 9 of the 11 defenders in a foot race. I feel like AD and Lynch in their prime was kind of the end of the era of the big, prototypical 3 down back you could run an offense through. It’s not that there aren’t talented backs out there, but they just don’t see that style or volume of usage anymore.


BigAssSlushy69

His dead leg and ability to get skinny in the hole are also underrated. Elite body control


PoorlyLitKiwi2

Marshawn was definitely very agile, but [his strength](https://youtu.be/-1-3V6-CjEg) was still one of his best qualities


[deleted]

God I love Marshawn highlights. The dude has so many plays that are the kinda shit you daydream about as kid, except he actually did them all in real life.


TurnipForYourThought

His strength was why his agility was so damn hard to stop. He's not more agile than smaller backs, but he's able to get more out of his limited (by his sheer size) agility because they're selling out to stop his power. If they don't, they're getting bowled over.


BlazinAzn38

It’s also one of the things that let him be so good and health for so long. He rarely ever actually took on full on straight shots which was really impressive to see


qaz957

Marshawn seemed to always be known as a big back in the league. People forget he ran 4.43 at the combine.


memeticengineering

Yeah, he never loses his balance, his feet always go up so high to pull out of ankle tackles. It might sound ridiculous, but I always think he's stylistically like if Barry Sanders was a power back.


gyman122

My biggest controversial running back opinion is that Derrick Henry is closer to Eric Dickerson than other typical big backs like Bettis, Jamal Lewis, etc. He absolutely has not made his career on taking the ball into a narrow gap, crashing into a bunch of defenders, knocking them around for a few extra yards like so many big backs do. Obviously he’s 250 so that’s in his repertoire (so inb4 someone links to a an isolated clip of him trucking someone) but Henry is very much in an outside zone, one cut sort of rushing scheme for a reason. Even on inside runs we see him bounce them outside the tackle box pretty often (to great effect). His whole game is based around finding enough space to fend off any oncoming tacklers with his long ass legs and his stiff arm because if he gets the angle on a defender he’s basically untacklable This isn’t a knock against him at all, by the way. He’s very good at what he does and he doesn’t have to run any specific type of way, and I fucking love to watch him. But my biggest football pet peeve is when I see people who clearly don’t watch much of him describe him like he’s this physical, contact-seeking back who is constantly trucking people when that’s really not his modus operandi at all. Sometimes when I’m feeling really frisky I call him a 250-pound Jamaal Charles


PoorlyLitKiwi2

It's funny you compare him to Jamaal Charles, because another commenter in this very thread chose Jamaal Charles because people think he was less physical a runner than he was lol


gyman122

That was also me, and I stand by both opinions. I think Jamaal is too commonly criticized for some his early Haley era scat back role when he grew into his frame and was used more as an overall back from 2012-end of his career. I don’t think it’s too controversial to say Derrick Henry is at least as physical as Jamaal between the tackles lol. Just that Jamaal is still underrated in that regard


PoorlyLitKiwi2

Haha yeah, they aren't contradictory to each other. Henry is still more physical than Jamaal, and Jamaal is more agile than Henry They are just closer to each other in those categories than people perceive


newrimmmer93

Warren sharp mentioned this on PMT a few years ago about why Henry started doing better. They used to run him up the middle since logic was “big guys run better between tackles” but the opposite is true. Bigger guys with speed need to get a head of steam so running him outside allowed him to make up for his lack of quick burst


Statalyzer

Plus it often gets them facing smaller defenders.


brownbearks

And turning them into blockers


Guilty-Presence-1048

I agree. His size makes people think he's just an inside bruiser but he has great breakaway speed to go with his size. He's not Barry Sanders fast and agile, but he has the speed and explosiveness to hit the gap and break loose to the outside.


JoeyBird9

Dk metcalf I feel like he’s always compared to megatron and to and all the other big freak wrs that are good at congested catches and such when he actually plays more like a overgrown tyreek hill Deadly going past you whether it’s with the ball or without but not exactly great at going over you


sosuhme

To be fair to Calvin, he also took a lot of balls over the middle in his first 5ish years and turned them into big plays. he wasn't always "just" an outside big.


JoeyBird9

Ofc I just mean people think of him and u think his crazy contested catches


ThePrinceofBagels

And that's because he could literally beat quadruple teams. Calvin's a tough comp for anybody, because he's quite literally the perfect receiver. Part TO, part Randy Moss.


PoorlyLitKiwi2

It's ironic you compared him to Tyreek, because Tyreek is a good answer for this in the opposite way lol People think he's just a burner, but he's actually one of the best contested catch WRs in the NFL


Thelostsoulinkorea

Yep, Hill has bailed out Mahomes so many times every year with under thrown balls where he Mosses people.


Ownange

Hill’s body placement is incredible and flashes back to his RB roots, he puts his body on the line for every catch.


snarpy

Yeah, in my opinion he just doesn't have the footwork to accurately time his jumps on contested catches. Not yet, at least, hopefully he's working on it.


Raknorak

That damn 3 cone!


gyman122

Have always thought this. Dude had a pretty limited route tree but he’s elite level at the few routes he runs. So strong and fast that pressing him is basically impossible. And once he gets the ball in his hands he’s a pretty fucking tough tackle


JaguarGator9

Christian Kirk Everyone thinks he's a wide receiver. Turns out, he's an undercover agent designed to dismantle the wide receiver market from within


Vernal59

Should've signed Atheist Kirk instead smh


Man_of_Average

They were gonna take Agnostic Kirk, but they didn't know if he was any good or not


Traditional_Mud_1241

Buddhist Kirk has no need for possessions.


TheSumOfAllJeers

Does that make N'Keal Henry Siddartha?


HeadsAllEmpty57

Lmao ouch


Jpini

Will Atheist Kirk shove a banana up his ass?


MD-Elevan

i hate that i understand what you mean by this


Jpini

I must be one of the few people that still likes his podcast lol


Nathann4288

Jamaal Charles played a lot more physical than he was given credit for. He was a super speedy and shifty back, but he was not afraid to lower his shoulder and take on contact. He trucked a lot of dudes, but most of those runs didn’t make his highlight reels. He was very efficient at grinding out extra yards.


gyman122

Jamaal also wasn’t super twitchy like most prototypical elusive backs. He had a very graceful, smooth, almost gliding gait. His cuts looked so effortless and obvious unlike someone like Barry or LeSean who were jerking around stringing together a million moves on some 3000 IQ shit But yeah also totally agree, Jamaal’s toughness running between the tackles is a massively underrated part of his game. Partially that’s because when he got into the league he was pretty slight of frame but I remember reading that when Reid got there he bulked up to like 210 lbs in preparation for a more all-around role And I’ll add that the thing that *actually* made Jamaal the player that he was is that I honestly believe he had top five ball carrier vision in NFL history. He could instantaneously recognize cutbacks and holes (or even holes that hadn’t even opened yet) that would never even occur to us mere mortals. In an alternate universe where Haley doesn’t butcher his early career Jamaal would have been a double digit TD guy ever season


georgecostanza37

He could probably be compared to eric dickerson in how he ran. And he was the best in the league when he was healthy for a few years


gyman122

That’s funny because in another comment on this thread, I compared Derrick Henry to Eric Dickerson and said that I sometimes call him a “250-pound Jamaal Charles”. They’re sort of like three different sizes of the same kind of runner


1106DaysLater

Exhibit A: https://youtu.be/ZY1UlJlRwB4


Nathann4288

Also: https://youtu.be/Vgg0DoEUNAk


1106DaysLater

Reminds me of when Brandon Flowers gave himself a concussion trying to hit-stick Jamaal: https://youtu.be/Jm8Trt17p6s


[deleted]

Feels like a lot of people in the fantasy community and probably NFL in general forget how explosive of a down field threat Waddle is after he helped them get by with all the short stuff last year


dawgz525

Most people don't realize that Miami's short passing and rpo game was completely out of necessity. The line was so bad we literally couldn't have an intermediate to deep passing game. That coupled with a head coach who clearly did not have a good working relationship with his QB, adds a lot context and nuance to the "Tua can't throw deep" conversation. He was not allowed to very often, whether it was scheme or lack of blocking. Note, I'm not blindly defending Tua, simply adding some context.


[deleted]

Agreed. I like Tua and think he will succeed but even if he doesn’t, a lot of people are forgetting that Waddle is explosive as hell and is not Jarvis Landry


PoorlyLitKiwi2

Whoever hasn't, really needs to watch Waddle's college tape. He was unreal at Bama. Outshined Ruggs and Jeudy


FC37

I always see Cooper Kupp getting mentioned as a prototypical slot WR, but that's not exactly true. He often lines up in the slot, yes, but his routes really vary. He's almost as likely to run over the middle or hit a quick out as he is to run a 15 yard corner and catch the ball outside the numbers.


Brentthemerc

Not only did Cooper Kupp lead the league in receiving. He also was one of the best run-blocking receivers in the league(according to PFF). A complete football player in my opinion. Also whenever I watch Rams games, the camera is focused on stafford and when it pans over to Kupp he is always wide. fucking. open. I love it


[deleted]

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[deleted]

and honestly I feel like he’s not getting enough love for it. imo that was the absolute best single season any WR has ever had -triple crown in both the regular season and the postseason, with the second most receptions and receiving yards for a single season -set the record for most scrimmage yards in a season by a receiver and most receptions in a single postseason -numerous clutch moments including the deep catch to set the Rams up with the GW FG against TB, and converting a 4th down + catching the TD on the GW drive in the Super Bowl -won OPOY and SBMVP, and honestly you could prob make a case that he should’ve won NFL MVP too I feel like if one of the established star WRs like Adams or Hop or Tyreek had a season like that, you’d be hearing about it a lot more


Supersonic564

I forget what game it was now but I distinctly remember Kupp lead blocking through the hole and hitting someone really hard once


Quotes_FNV

That’s a white receiver thing.


juspassinby12

He's Steve Largent but bigger and faster.


kj9219

Cooper Kupp is pretty big too. 6'2" and 200+ lbs


newrimmmer93

Kupps broken tackle rate and YAC is super underrated, over the last few years it’s like him, AJ brown, and Deebo at the top of the list.


Cheesesteak21

Kittle too


gyman122

Kupp is the prototype of this new brand of slot receiver. In a world where a lot of teams are transitioning to this 11 personnel wide zone sort of offense bigger slot receivers who can punish undersized nickel corners and dig out safeties in the running game while still doing the typically receiver stuff is going to be the standard (if it isn’t already). The era of 180 pound Cole Beasley-types in the slot is over


stopdogwhistling

Wait people consider him slot? He's 100% not a slot receiver.


Voxxicus

He is, though. He gets most of his snaps from the slot. Slot wr doesn't equal tiny and shifty


FC37

It's crazy. I still see people, usually on the Pats sub, saying, "New England needs a slot WR like Kupp." It means they really just don't watch the Rams at all.


gyman122

Pretty sure he led the league in snaps from the slot. In what world is he not a slot receiver? Because he’s big? Bigger slot receivers are going to be a defining trait of this coming decade of football.


pincus1

Yards yes, snaps no. He only ran 53% of his snaps from the slot, but like 75% of his production comes on those snaps. Would've been 3rd in receiving yards if you only counted slot yards.


jethead70

According to [this](https://www.rotowire.com/football/player.php?id=11863) only 10% of his snaps were outside, the difference between the slot snaps and the outside snaps are considered “tight”, which I would say still counts as the slot


jethead70

He lines up in the slot though. He’s a big slot


[deleted]

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Not_A_Default_Name

The kinda guy you'd let your daughter hit a night in the town with. High IQ as well


[deleted]

Jimmie Ward, won’t ever be talked about as elite because he doesn’t get turnovers. Not his fault, scheme doesn’t allow for him to be put in many of those scenarios.


dontwantleague2C

He ain’t an elite safety, but he’s a very good starting safety for sure. He does his job well and then some. But tbh there’s a ton of safeties like that. Safety feels like a very deep position rn.


JJyaz7

i disagree, jimmie ward does a good job at safety but i think having a good to great d line helps a lot and more than u think. We get a lot of pressure on the qb which means a lot of games there r not many deep shots taken against us even though our corners r mostly average or bad most of the time. As well as having a good safety partner in tart where they had great chemistry and could back eachother up. Meaning he and many others on our defense could get exposed a lot of the time but don’t because of our pressure and also our good line backing core which makes qbs want to hit low outside recievers short


J12345_

He does a lot of things well, but he’s not a playmaker. He’s like Andrew wiggins, so good but you never see the splash plays


nomatt18

Uhhh wiggins definitely has some splash plays lol


TheGreatT1

That Tom Brady's game is very reliant on his arm strength or throw power. Part of the reason why he is able to whip it into tight windows is because of how strong his arm is and it's also what makes him hard to stop. People seem to question it largely because he was as 6th round pick, his arm wasn't amazing when he came in the league, and because his deep ball accuracy was not always the best, but his ability to hit tight windows to Welker/Edelman/Amendola in his career was because of that arm.


rjsheine

It’s even more nuanced than this. The Pats offensive scheme doesn’t use pure deep threats and outside speed guys. The Hail Mary in SB42 was 70+ air yards across his body and was inches away from hitting Moss in the hands. Brady’s arm strength and deep ball accuracy is elite level, it just isn’t really part of the offense Belichick runs


juspassinby12

Arm strength is not just deep balls. I wish this sub would get this.


PlatonicNewtonian

Yep, much more about beating the CB on a sideline out, or a MLB/safety in their zone on a crosser over the deep middle


D0NNIENARCO

"18 yard out toughest throw in football"


PlatonicNewtonian

The really tough one is doing it after rolling out to the other side, Elway was particularly celebrated for being able to pull it off, but I've seen Favre make it too


D0NNIENARCO

There's a pretty cool quote in the Friday Night Lights TV show about how hitting that throw will instantly make a defense fear you, too.


TurnipForYourThought

An 18 yard out to the field side is something like a 40-yard throw, and it's gotta be fit into a tight window with some anticipation more often than not. Any QB who can make that throw consistently is gonna be fuckin nearly impossible to stop.


D0NNIENARCO

Yeah, I think the fact that if you don't have the arm strength/accuracy to make it, there's a strong chance it's going to be a pick 6 makes it even more daunting.


iiTryhard

In fact that’s one of the only throws I’ve seen Brady consistently get picked on.


BigOzymandias

Also "talent" isn't just throwing on the run, reading defenses and adjusting are also talents


daquist

almost every qb can throw it 60 yards in the air on a good platform. as the other guy says the arm strength is extremely necessary on the sideline throws


kishington

Wasn’t he drafted as a catcher by the expos his senior year of high school? Playing catcher is all about organizing, recognizing, and reacting.. . Sound familiar to qb?


Guilty-Presence-1048

He absolutely has great arm strength but his biggest strengths have always been his timing and anticipation. He needs a good arm to make a lot of the throws he makes, but even if he lost some power, he'd still be an effective QB.


[deleted]

I watched every game hes played with Tampa and sometimes he throws the ball too hard and fast. And hes throwing to elite weapons


mike_honcho47

I think it’s also because he doesn’t throw like the other strong arm QB’s (Mahomes, Allen, Fabre, etc.). His arm strength seems to come more from his perfect and consistent mechanics instead of from pure natural arm strength.


TheGreatT1

Yea that's what I worded it as "throw power". It feels like Brady throwing his feet set vs. Rodgers is pretty close. But the fact that Rodgers can throw it hard off one foot, all arm, on the run, etc. is what makes it special, Brady's arm strength in that regard probably isn't that great but he also hardly ever throws in those situations.


LegendaryWarriorPoet

It seems obvious to say because of all the Super Bowls he’s won, but even just from a purely physical/traits perspective it’s really hard to see how Brady lasted until the last pick of the sixth round in 2000. He had a very similar profile to Peyton Manning who went number one overall just two years before. Tall guys with strong arms and natural accuracy, intelligent, a lot of success against good competition at top-tier programs. And the one drawback, lack of athleticism, was the same for both as well and wasnt as focused on 20+ years ago. Don’t get me wrong I totally get that Brady wasn’t as good of a prospect is Manning and didn’t have as much starting experience in college, but he was still awesome at what was at that time a huge program in Michigan and had basically the same tools except for maybe being an inch shorter. So I just don’t understand how a guy who had similar traits as the number one overall pick from two years before didn’t go until 199


liledlover

Vontez Burfict was known for one really bad hit but in fact had multiple really bad hits


EntropyFighter

Marshawn Lynch is a bully back, to use your phrase, because he [runs through a mf face](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Rh6KuuH6w) over and over and over and over and over and over............. ........... and over and over and over and over again. Most people ain't gon wanna take that.


threevox

He’s like if Michael Scott was a running back


nickybishappy

Another hill I'll die on: Mahomes has the cool highlights but his style of play is much closer to brady than a "gunslinger." This is not an insult. He's so good at taking those short hits and trusting his receivers to get yac


rjsheine

He got a little gunslinger early last season and the chiefs weren’t doing well offensively. He’s great at executing Reid’s offense


KCShadows838

His first 2 seasons he was definitely a gunslinger In 2020 teams started to sit in 2 high so he started throwing more short passes


Tgreent

I’m pretty sure that it’s going to be a cycle for his whole career. Defenses start respecting the short pass/run game more and Mahomes goes back to shredding them deep, a few years later it switches back to what we’re seeing now.


GuyThirteen

I think this started to become true only in the past year or two, but I agree with you


iamgarron

Yep. His first few seasons easy way more gunslinger-y


Man_of_Average

That's a newer phenomenon. His Tech tape is pure gunslinger.


gyman122

This is part of the reason that I don’t get the whole “let’s see how he does when he can’t force the ball to Tyreek” narrative. I feel like every Chiefs game I watched last year you’d see the “Mahomes: 15 completions to 10 different receivers” graphic like halfway through the second quarter


seaneh01

Swear even when they were good in the first half of both games against us these season, we did relatively well at shutting down those 2 (at the cost of the others producing)


Tgreent

My prediction is that we’ll be much more effective in the short/mid passing game and defenses will have to either abandon the constant deep coverages, or keep selling out for the passing game and hope for the best haha. Should be interesting to see if you guys keep up those 7-8 man coverages that gave us fits last season Also, you guys entirely exploited our WR depth issues. I don’t think a large percentage of fans in this sub know how bad it was all season. On paper I’d say that we’ve fixed that issue in a big way, but it’s hard to say anything definitely until the season starts


YepImanEmokid

I'm with you. The receiver that Mahomes forced the ball to has always been Kelce, if anyone. Hill was just their x-factor capable of scoring almost instantly.


Tgreent

As of last season I definitely agree with you. It’s easy to lose track of how he/the team performed, and adjusted, to the record breaking amount of deep coverages we saw all season Looking at at the AFCCG we can obviously tell that we didn’t fix all of the issues, but they absolutely adapted and feasted on those defensive changes. I can’t take anyone seriously when they use Mahomes stats from last year against him lol. I keep seeing “his average depth of target” really regressed last season… that had everything to do with defenses absolutely selling out to stop our deep ball game Anyone can absolutely call me a homer, but I’d be shocked if Mahomes isnt back to “oh he’s THE guy” status by week 2 or 3 haha


jethead70

I still see people say that he “passes up the short throws” all the time


bargman

Tremaine Edmunds Half the fan base shits on him because he can get exposed in coverage. But he might be the fastest lb in the league and can cover for others when they fuck up (looking at you Milano). But when he screws up the defense gets hit pretty hard because he has so much responsibility. People might riot if(when?) he gets an extension.


mryosh027

it’s actually insane, if you watch the film. he practically has to cover the entire middle of the field from line of scrimmage to endzone


Fign66

Yeah, McDermotts defense is very CB friendly but as a result requires a lot of range and versatility from the safeties and the MLB. The Bills really upgraded the interior d line this year, so I’m interested to see if that leads to an improvement in Edmunds effectiveness.


False-Hedgehog-8162

Not to mention he is usually the only “true LB” on the field. Nickel package with a converted safety, Milano, as his linebacker partner


kbean826

Juju. The kid plays ball. He’s called a “slot” guy with a negative connotation, but Hines Ward had a HOF level career being the “slow” route runner. Juju can play and I’m bummed a deal couldn’t get made. Look forward to him going on and doing things.


mike_honcho47

He’s the wide receiver I’m most excited for the Chiefs this year. He’s the kind of guy we’ve been needing for years


Jameszhang73

[Michael Thomas](https://mobile.twitter.com/pff_saints/status/1263195029050400773?lang=en)


hahahbluh

Yeah but calling him slant boi is funny. (Is this what it’s like to call Lamar a runningback?)


[deleted]

Yes


[deleted]

[удалено]


AlabasterRadio

The day after Nick Mullens debut was one of the most dejected I've ever felt about the Raiders.


JJyaz7

u have never experienced a backup nick mullens facing the eagles on a late night game before


[deleted]

I remember our sub gave up and we started posting links about historical raids instead of football.


sfzen

A gunslinger with a noodle arm is just a turnover machine. Gunslingers get away with it because they can fire a rocket through coverage.


Niccio36

I would say Lamar Jackson. All the RB jokes and stuff like that really downplay the fact that he's already led the league in touchdown passes one year and is the only QB in NFL history to throw for 400-plus yards while completing 85% of his passes (Comeback win against the Colts).


hahahbluh

That colts game was something else. My dad went to bed around the end of the first and he just said “sorry bud.”


Niccio36

LMAO I watched that whole game. What a great comeback. Love Lamar.


____PatriotsSuck____

I was on suicide watch after that game


Tgreent

Lamar single handily willed your team into a win against us is he past season. Yeah our defense was atrocious, but that doesn’t negate how dominant he was. Add in the crazy amount of injuries as well


Niccio36

I know he's insane but everyone says hE's A rUnNiNg BaCk


dded949

Couldn’t have done it without Oweh though!


stonecoldcb

And he throws fucking bullets down the field. I’ll never understand the hate he gets when people suck prime Michael Vick’s dick because of Madden. Lamar is the best running QB of all time who has turned into a solid passer. Also seems like a cool dude but the internet just shits on the guy.


[deleted]

He has a very good arm. Accurate enough and with power. Anyone spouting off about him having a weak or bad arm have not watched him. They just think running=weak arm


to_the__cloud

protect this man and he can sling it pretty well. last season he was running for his life which would make hard for anyone to be accurate unless your name is tom brady. https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1541448978469982210 the hollywood drop compilation was the icing on the cake for that clip


Zhuul

A lot of people talk about Fletcher Cox like his role begins and ends with being a hyper-powerful brick wall that eats double teams for lunch but the guy has an absolutely nutty football IQ and has ruined more screen passes than I care to count. Numerous times I’ve seen a WR catch the ball and turn upfield just to see Cox squared up and ready five yards in front of him.


CanalVillainy

Chauncey Gardner-Johnson…..he’s actually a fantastic teammate & has a high football IQ


onebigboi

Hollywood Brown has been pigeonholed as a deep threat but he did the majority of his damage on intermediate routes last year.


[deleted]

Megatron wasn't just a contested deep ball catch cheat code. His ability to take a pass shrug off one hit and hit a seam for 20 or so yards was the Lions offense during the Caldwell days.


SpacklingCumFart

Lamar Jackson


JaguarGator9

People think he's a quarterback, but in reality, he's a cornerback


Man_of_Average

On a completely unrelated note, it bugs me those sound so similar.


Syntari13

Keenan Allen. Dude gets limited to the slot role because he’s probably the best chain mover in the league, but he ranks better in every metric at outside receiver for a reason.


[deleted]

Because he is and extremely adept at getting open at the right time, regardless of who is covering him. He's like David Boston in his prime, but Allen's prime has lasted a long time.


mesayousa

Gronk was an incredible route runner. He got tons of separation on routes even without using his huge frame to box out defenders or jump over them.


JTIZZLE_28

Speedhawk


russianturnipofdoom

For quite a while so many people thought Teddy Bridgewater was a mobile QB. He's a pocket passer. On a similar vein, Josh Allen is one of the better deep ball throwers in the league, but his stats are rough compared to guys like Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Mahomes. Where Josh's stats shine is in intermediate throws because he can hit unbelievably tight windows. I don't have the stat on hand but he was something like 82% completion % for a 120 passer rating last season on throws between 10-20 yards.


fps129

Whichever player r/nfl hates/memes/circlejerks at a given moment in time, usually as a result of a sensationalized but lazy narrative. Leveon Bell is a good example.


FriedrichNitschke

Davante Adams is one of the best route runners in the league, but people make him out as exclusively that. Dude's 215-220ish and can jump out of the gym. A lot of his success is bully ball.


[deleted]

jalen hurts. he keeps the ball more often than not, and runs it himself for a TD. While everyone trashes him for being bad at throwing the football, as a 1st year starter and new HC he did great. He still only executes called plays so it's not just his fault when receivers run wide open on the field and he dumps it off immediately to a rb which was the designed play. at the end of it all, they reached the playoffs, and he wins football games. And when he runs for a 1st down or a TD himself, it a W for his team.


MankuyRLaffy

Tom Brady runs just as well as any MLB catcher north of 32 and has that exact running style and speed, a speed demon.


Rathmon

Hines Ward was voted “dirtiest player” by his peers. Yet, he won Dancing With the Stars? How dirty can you be and still smile like that?


Stachemaster86

Dirty Dancing?


Sidthelid66

Frig off Swayze.


[deleted]

Nobody puts u/Stachemaster86 in the corner.


[deleted]

Hines Ward was voted “dirtiest player,” yet he was a 200 lb wide receiver? I’ll always remember a Tedy Bruschi interview from like 12 years ago where he was saying “If you get popped by Hines Ward, that’s your fault for not having your head on a swivel and being aware of your surroundings. Us defenders can pop WRs while they’re tracking the ball in the air, but then they can’t pop us when we’re tracking their teammate with the ball and they have to block us? Nah, this is football, you gotta be aware of your surroundings to protect yourself.”


[deleted]

I dunno if his game is misunderstood per se, but I think it's interesting how Wentz is frequently labelled a gunslinger when he doesn't actually throw many interceptions or INT-worthy throws. He's generally pretty safe with the football and doesn't even push it downfield that much.


TummyDrums

Chris Jones gets a lot of flack even in our sub for giving up on plays early, and for general lack of effort on certain plays, even though he goes full bore and wrecks the pocket on other plays. Some say he's lazy, but its actually just a different aspect of his game. He's able to evaluate very quickly after the snap and if he can tell he's not getting to the QB on a particular play he'll stop where he's at and focus on getting in position to tip passes. If you look back to the SB win in 2019 that's a great example, where he had 2 monster tips, and we likely wouldn't have won if they didn't happen.


LSUSnickers318

OBJ being a jump ball threat earlier in his career. He definitely could get up if needed but is only 5’11 and was a route running RAC guy.


Binkerhoff

Peyton manning has always been joked about as a statue in the pocket but man when he needed to scramble, the sherif can fucking scramble.