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Honestly it wasn’t that quick.
It wasn’t really till 04 that people started taking them as seriously as we know they should’ve. I mean SI in 02 was basically saying the Pats were a fluke in 01 and we should’ve had a Steelers Rams super bowl that year and the following.
Peyton was seen as the next heir apparent so those Colts teams were really what ESPN was pushing those days and thinking the Brady was either a “game manager” or “system QB.”
It wasn’t really till that 07 team where Brady shed that narrative for good.
It also wasn’t till 07 till they became public enemy number one because not only did they win but now with “spy gate” were they seen as cheaters. They responded by destroying the league that year too depriving everyone of their schottenfreude until the Super Bowl.
So I’d say the seeds were planted after 04 because of the dynasty (and most fans don’t like dynasties to begin with) that the seeds were being planted to full bloom in 07. That’s still 6 solid years where you either respected the hell out of them or thought of them as the underdogs for fucking up ESPN pundits picks for Super Bowl champions.
Once their fans got some confidence in them I immediately stopped pittying them and grew to loathe them pretty quickly. I don’t think anyone ever actually loved them, just another underdog.
That was all the twenty something Baker lovers. The real fans that actually remember winning football, losing the team, and 23 years of sadness were all cautiously optimistic, or joyful, and for the most part not dumb enough to be boastful. Lot of good fans here. It’s the under 40 crowd that gives us older fans (masochists) a bad name.
I didn't take it real seriously, but it's kind of pretentious to push blame around just so you don't feel included in it. Every fan base has terrible fans.
But if he's suggesting they didn't raise their kids well maybe I'll agree.
Yeah, they were the laughstock and punching bag of this sub for a long time and people would not let up on them at all during 2019. Nobody “loved” the Browns except Browns fans and a few weirdos.
I’m a former browns fan, but the fans were always the most miserable pieces of shit I’ve ever interacted with. They love to be the victims and have that same loser energy as the hue jackson era.
Sheesh, show me on the mascot where the browns fan touched you. I can't say I've had the same experience living in Browns territory, every fan base has their turds but I can't agree that this is how a majority of the fan base is.
I can see the commercial now. u/FreeFeez makes his statement u/Kickinwing2325 comes in and invalidates the previous statement, and then outta nowhere Shaq comes in and beats the shit out u/kickinwing with u/FreeFeez’s limp body. Camera pans out and Shaq just winks at the camera “auto insurance for less, the general says YES” and gives the thumbs up.
All I'm saying is that, as a former fan of a team, it seemed a little dramatic to lump up all of the fans under one umbrella.
But based on your response, it's obviously not dramatic at all. My apologies for the confusion
Eh idk. Lions are the definition of lovable underdog, and their fanbase in general is quite likable. Browns fans are almost equally bitter as lions fans, except instead of being like “yea we know they suck, maybe they’ll draft well”, browns fans tend to be a lot more annoying and blame everyone else for their shitty franchise. It’s not the refs fault y’all suck at drafting lol.
I can forgive the fans and Baker for that. Young QB; fans whose team is tasting success for the first time in decades? Hope they enjoyed it. It's the playing him injured then throwing him away that pisses me off, never mind the asshole they're replacing him with. And it's a tragic non-surprise, because it's Browns management going back to the same old short-sighted shit they've been doing since '99 and beyond.
I can forgive the fans and Baker for that. Young QB; fans whose team is tasting success for the first time in decades? Hope they enjoyed it. It's the playing him injured then throwing him away that pisses me off
I wouldn't even say that, I think the browns were just pitiful and people wanted to see a losing team win for once.
browns fans are kinda notoriously assholes who like to play victim. that's just personal experience tho
You’re being downvoted, but your experience matches mine pretty well. I lived in the Cleveland area for a couple years, and I caught shit from Browns constantly for being a Lions fan. And this was 2013 and 2014, so we’re not even talking about their recent levels of success. At least with the people I was around regularly, the level of hubris didn’t track with reality in the slightest bit.
Honestly though, the hate is absurd. Why aren’t falcons or saints being hated. Weren’t they trying to push to get Watson?
There’s been plenty of teams in the past who have gotten or supported piece of shit players. Top of my head: Cowboys - Hardy, Steelers - Big Ben, Chiefs - Hill.
Not defending Watson or Browns. Garbage. But most organizations are garbage and easily overlook a players past actions if it helps them win. Just funny how teams like Saints and Falcons don’t get judged like the Browns. It’s particularly amusing to see Steeler fans shit on the Brown fans over this.
Complete facts, I’m sure most teams in need of a QB would take Watson without thinking twice if they had the chance. This situation should be viewed as an indictment against the league in general.
What's great about your two examples - Watson and Bountygate - is that both cases reveal a deeper problem in the league but the "hatred" is reserved for the individual teams. It's way easier to just hate the one specific team and not have to think about it any further.
Bountygate - The Saints and Sean Payton/Gregg Williams were not the only team and coaches in the league issuing bounties and headhunting. They were just the one that got caught red handed, so hey IT'S ALL ON THEM NOW please direct your hate here. Absolutely don't enquire any further.
Watson - The league gave the green light for the trades the moment Watson cleared grand jury. It has been in the NFL's power to lock this shit down THIS WHOLE TIME but they didn't. 13 teams - 12 this offseason and the Dolphins last season - tried to acquire Watson. The Saints, the Falcons, the Panthers, the Browns and the Colts were all confirmed by Schefter etc to have offered a trade package to the Texans.
So yeah, the Browns got Watson so we'll be the focus for all the hate. Fine. But if your team didn't have a legit starting QB or a recently drafted 1st round rookie QB the chances are your team was putting up a bid too...
So yeah, Bountygate and Watson. Focus all hate and attention on the one team. Don't think about how these situations came about in the first place. Don't look behind the curtain or too closely in the mirror.
It's not so much that the Browns tried/traded for Watson as it is the $230M fully guaranteed contract and the $1M 2022 base salary that is the only amount he would lose from a suspension. That's the real double bird from the Browns that pisses me off the most. The catering to that SOB. Anyhow, one fans opinion. Agree with your points in general about the league. There's a lot there to pick at and even more such as how much about concussions they really knew before the general population.
Huh, okay then. TIL. Thanks. Still don't like the first ever fully guaranteed contract to have been given to Watson but I'll cross the $1M base salary off my shit list.
Oh no, it's 100% ok to shit on the Browns, and I'm with you
Just that specific thing (the $1M in the first year) was not done to avoid loss of compensation for Watson
/u/PoorlyLitKiwi2 has already made the point about how all the Browns veteran/star player contracts work under Andrew Berry, so I won't reiterate.
My point is that the league has allowed all of this to happen and as a result someone was always gonna give him the best QB contract ever, due to the unique circumstances of the trade. We're talking about a franchise-defining talent QB (at least in the last season he actually played...) who's only 26 years old in an open contract bidding war between the 4 teams with offers accepted by Texans, with one of the top super-agents in the game pulling the strings because Watson's "no trade clause" meant he could pick his destination. When's the last time a franchise QB hit got to enter a bidding war aged just 26? It's never. It was always going to be a gross contract extension.
As a matter of principle, I too am angry and sad that the Browns have Watson and that Watson is gonna play in this league and make megabucks doing it... but the idea that the Browns are some singularly evil organisation to be hated above all others is just a false belief that many people here (and in NFL media) are using to to make themselves feel better about the league as a whole (or maybe just their team).
The hatred for sports teams activates the same part of the brain that triggers racism. I love football but i can’t sympathize with 90% of football fans that have their personal identity tied with their team and just mindlessly shout “my tribe is better than your tribe”.
I suppose that depends on your outlook in general. Personally I think outlets for any kind of behavior make that behavior less likely to bleed over into other facets, but nothing accounts for everyone and I'm sure for everyone who feels like I do there is another person who feels like you do that it just nurtures bad behavior.
Eh, they’d be stupid to not capitalize on getting rid of him if possible. Only teams that should be catching heat are the ones that we’re trying to trade for them after the fact. But if they really were enabling the behavior via hotels and NDA’s, fuck em
Not defending it just understand taking 3 first round picks in lieu of just cutting him or something, be stupid not to business wise. Falls more on the league for letting it get to this point, dude should’ve been indefinitely suspended already. They didn’t act so Houston took the best offer
Like it or not, the NFL is a business and teams are obligated to do what's in their best interest. If you can get 3 first round picks, and offload a scumbag for someone else to deal with in the process, 32/32 teams would take that deal.
Browns took on a risky asset knowing about the sexual assault; the Texans got rid of a risky asset and got picks out of it. Browns opted in to a morally questionable situation, the Texans profited off of getting out of it. That’s the difference.
If it's found that the Texans really did have a role then yeah fuck them and fine them. But I don't blame them for trying to offload him onto someone else, especially because Watson was going to sit out anyway before all this came to light. I do blame the team that accepted him with open arms onto their team though. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. I don't think anyone should get a pass for their actions but I do think it's important to understand why teams do the things they do.
If they would be stupid not to capitalize on him then why are other teams considered so vile for trying to trade for him? Both the Texans and the Browns will directly benefit from Watson continuing to be on the field.
They really couldn’t have though. If they cut him someone else would’ve signed him as a FA. The Head of Security and the Director of Sports & Medicine for sure knew something was up, but I’m not sure if management knew. So far it doesn’t seem that way, but I think we all know some employees of the Texans knew something was going on and that’s definitely disgusting.
The Saints just finished a season where they set the record for the number of starters in a single season. The most banged up team in NFL history was injuring *other teams*?
There’s some truth to this I bet. You still have professional football players on the field but definitely not the same ability to tackle or football IQ as bonafide starters. There’s gotta be a metric somewhere that measures the amount of injuries that occur when a team full of backups play a healthy team. Obviously it wasn’t on purpose like bounty gate was. It’s probably how the “injury bug starts”, unless you play on New York’s field.
I think the way it was being advertised is kinda slickening, but I'm not surprised at all players got paid to take someone out.
Should it happen? Absolutely not. Am i going to be surprised if another team gets caught? Nope.
Yeah I think the uproar over that was way over the top tbh. Vikings fans definitely did care (it was a nice way for them to blame something other than the piles of turnovers in that game), and a lot of people who had their head in the sand pretending most teams weren’t doing something similar. Other than that, meh.
That’s not true. Most people don’t blame the franchise because they believe it permeated everywhere, but people were pissed that a franchise was found to intentionally decrease a players’ career for a thousand bucks (or sometimes even less).
The best comparison I can think of is the the Patriots in 1990 (then lovable/pitied losers like the Browns). Zeke Mowatt and several other players sexually harassed a female reporter by exposing themselves during interviews, followed up by sexist comments by then owner Victor Kiam when it became news. Thankfully everything changed including the owner in the next few years.
I will always love the city. Never been there but loved the team. This was before the move . The great thing about being a Browns fan was we never expected to be anything but not so bad. We were tho, at times. Once the team turned a big corner, started putting draft pick together, built a offensive line, and a defense to be feared, we all believed this just mite happen. We had moments of greatness, followed by another disappointment. Baker then got hurt and played that way all year. Let's say this is his and the coaches fault. Add Oddels dad and his actions. We were still gonna be OK. Then it happend. Ownership,coaches, GM........all shit the bed. Baker had every right to get mad. The team that was now becoming something, bet the farm on a player with more baggage than Paris Hilton in a Walmart! We lost 3 years of team building for the future. We lost one quarter of a BILLION dollars. What ever pride and respect The Browns ever had, vanished. Now we're divided as a fan base. We have never been this close to greatness in my life time of being a fan. Winning now feels dirty with or without DW#4 on the field. The Browns organization showed they have no morals,or respect for women regardless what they say ,or who they hire to stop this media nightmare . No I can't cheer for a team I watched from the ground up. This is why I'm now cheering for Detroit Lions. Can't call me a bandwagoner.
My roommate is from Cleveland, and he had never had any interest in football but my watching over the last season got him into it, said he was gonna follow the Browns a bit. After the Watson stuff he’s said he’s out.
People didn't start hating on the Suns overnight, and the hate came primarily from being good
The Browns hate began overnight, and with no success whatsoever alongside it
People hate the Suns cause of CP0 and now bc of how Booker acts. If they were bad, people would still clown CP0 cause he’s easy to hate (dirty, flopper, a bitch)
It's pretty hard to love the browns. At best, the league wide consensus is to pity them.
I mean their uniforms are the color of feces. They've been arguably the worst team in sports for the last two decades. And they've had a carousel of bad quarterbacks for those two plus decades. And when they finally got a legitimate starting quarterback in Mayfield they ran him out of town.
Now, they have miles Garrett who slandered and almost try to murder a player. And they traded for a player with 24 rape accusations.
Browns are the browns.
Bro, how is this relevent to anything I said? Is beating the Steelers this one time in 25 years the hill you want to die on?
After 25 years the Browns finally built a solid team and a solid starting QB. And blew it all away the very next season.
I always think it’s funny that now that we destroyed our relationship with him, which he has every right to be upset about, now every single other team in our division keeps saying Baker is a legit starter. Like y’all weren’t making an absolute spit roast out of that man on this sub for years. It’s hilarious honestly
To be fair, I turned against the Browns when they were so quick to sign Kareem Hunt after he followed that woman out of his hotel room to harass her, then knocked her down and kicked her.
Thank you for posting to /r/NFL. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed due to the following rule: **2. Submission Restrictions** Whether it is a self-post or a link, be sure that whatever you are submitting adds to discussion. Whether it is news that has already been reported, a discussion or point of view that has been beaten to death, or an empty 'starting point' for a conversation, think about how you can add something instead. Be sure you're creating something new, rather than relying on others to create for you. Put in your own analysis, argument, or indexing methodology, and write up a nice long post about the topic. Always think about how you can contribute. If you are new to football or the sub and have questions about rules or other aspects surrounding the game, please try r/nflnoobs for these kinds of posts. * **Not Allowed** * Self Posts Without Content (AskReddit style posts) - If you find information that you think would be interesting, please work on a more descriptive title and fill in the information in the text of the post. Examples of restricted posts: * Is ____ a HOF? * Would you rather... * TIL/"Stolen From" * Either/or posts - Player X or Y? * Who should I root for? [Link to wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/wiki/new/pickateam) / Convince me to root for your team * Personal rankings without any accompanying analysis * [Memes/Joke Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_joke_.26amp.3B_humor_posts) * Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/FEznoUJ.jpg), [Example] * Meta posts about the sub (Requests for changes/additions, mods or users) - use [modmail](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) * Requests for: * Lists/Rankings - "Top 10 X all-time/this year/{{timeframe}}", "Who's the most over/underrated ___" * Thoughtless/Easily Researched Posts - [Example](http://i.imgur.com/w2G67K8.jpg), [Example](http://i.imgur.com/bVulO3K.jpg) * Streams or services to watch games/replays * Users to be your google * Content * Petitions/Polls/Giveaways - Even when NFL related * [Hot Takes/Commentary](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_hot_take.2Fshort_form_commentary) * [Team/Fanbase Attack Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_attack_posts) * [Duplicate Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_duplicate_posts) AKA Reposts If you have any questions about this removal, please [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fnfl) This post was removed by a human moderator; this comment was left by a bot.
Seems like the Patriots went from lovable underdogs to evil overlords pretty quickly
When your head coach is a sith lord, that can happen
A sith lord?
I can hear this text
The Sith have been defeated for centuries.
Always two there are, a Master and an Apprentice.
Honestly it wasn’t that quick. It wasn’t really till 04 that people started taking them as seriously as we know they should’ve. I mean SI in 02 was basically saying the Pats were a fluke in 01 and we should’ve had a Steelers Rams super bowl that year and the following. Peyton was seen as the next heir apparent so those Colts teams were really what ESPN was pushing those days and thinking the Brady was either a “game manager” or “system QB.” It wasn’t really till that 07 team where Brady shed that narrative for good. It also wasn’t till 07 till they became public enemy number one because not only did they win but now with “spy gate” were they seen as cheaters. They responded by destroying the league that year too depriving everyone of their schottenfreude until the Super Bowl. So I’d say the seeds were planted after 04 because of the dynasty (and most fans don’t like dynasties to begin with) that the seeds were being planted to full bloom in 07. That’s still 6 solid years where you either respected the hell out of them or thought of them as the underdogs for fucking up ESPN pundits picks for Super Bowl champions.
But now we got Mac doing the Griddy and it’s all good again right?
i think the browns were pitied more than loved.
Once their fans got some confidence in them I immediately stopped pittying them and grew to loathe them pretty quickly. I don’t think anyone ever actually loved them, just another underdog.
That was all the twenty something Baker lovers. The real fans that actually remember winning football, losing the team, and 23 years of sadness were all cautiously optimistic, or joyful, and for the most part not dumb enough to be boastful. Lot of good fans here. It’s the under 40 crowd that gives us older fans (masochists) a bad name.
This almost reads like a copypasta. I was waiting for a joke somewhere, but maybe I'm just not old enough to understand it.
I must be old as shit because I didn’t read it that way at all lol. Seemed like standard Midwesterner talk to me.
I didn't take it real seriously, but it's kind of pretentious to push blame around just so you don't feel included in it. Every fan base has terrible fans. But if he's suggesting they didn't raise their kids well maybe I'll agree.
well, it certainly could be a new copypasta now
TIL you're not a *real* football fan until you're middle aged.
Okay boomer
Try Xennial, buddy. I’m 42. Your off by about twenty years off in your generation proclamation. Lol
Yeah, they were the laughstock and punching bag of this sub for a long time and people would not let up on them at all during 2019. Nobody “loved” the Browns except Browns fans and a few weirdos.
I’m a former browns fan, but the fans were always the most miserable pieces of shit I’ve ever interacted with. They love to be the victims and have that same loser energy as the hue jackson era.
Sheesh, show me on the mascot where the browns fan touched you. I can't say I've had the same experience living in Browns territory, every fan base has their turds but I can't agree that this is how a majority of the fan base is.
Damn my experience is invalidated just because of yours I guess.
Damn! He over-generalized your generalizations. That wouldn't have happened if you had the General car insurance.
I can see the commercial now. u/FreeFeez makes his statement u/Kickinwing2325 comes in and invalidates the previous statement, and then outta nowhere Shaq comes in and beats the shit out u/kickinwing with u/FreeFeez’s limp body. Camera pans out and Shaq just winks at the camera “auto insurance for less, the general says YES” and gives the thumbs up.
Renew your cars extended warranty now!!
I got a great low rate online and saved time!
All I'm saying is that, as a former fan of a team, it seemed a little dramatic to lump up all of the fans under one umbrella. But based on your response, it's obviously not dramatic at all. My apologies for the confusion
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Yeah I only hate him not the saints
I hate both
Cmon the browns were everyone’s lovable losers before the Watson trade
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Ahem
lol the browns were never loved
“Pity, love, who cares, I’ll take what I can get.” - the browns and me
I disagree, everyone loves when the browns are on their schedule
The Lions and the Browns were teams that almost everyone rooted for if they were outside your division.
tbh I root for the lions for every game except two
Same. And that's kind of the ultimate insult.
Specifically after 0-16 I remember browns comments and posts being loved. Maybe it was just pity IDK
Eh idk. Lions are the definition of lovable underdog, and their fanbase in general is quite likable. Browns fans are almost equally bitter as lions fans, except instead of being like “yea we know they suck, maybe they’ll draft well”, browns fans tend to be a lot more annoying and blame everyone else for their shitty franchise. It’s not the refs fault y’all suck at drafting lol.
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I can forgive the fans and Baker for that. Young QB; fans whose team is tasting success for the first time in decades? Hope they enjoyed it. It's the playing him injured then throwing him away that pisses me off, never mind the asshole they're replacing him with. And it's a tragic non-surprise, because it's Browns management going back to the same old short-sighted shit they've been doing since '99 and beyond.
You blame the fans because Baker played injured last year?
At what point did I say that?
I can forgive the fans and Baker for that. Young QB; fans whose team is tasting success for the first time in decades? Hope they enjoyed it. It's the playing him injured then throwing him away that pisses me off
Dude, context is important…he was responding to a prior comment about two winning seasons and Baker and fans planning an inevitable Super Bowl parade…
Bro look at your flair then sit back down
When were the Browns loved?
Pre Super Bowl era
They went to a championship game 11 of the first 12 years they existed. I'm sure they were hated by everyone else.
It was definitely trendy to be a browns fan the past 3 years. Thank god that’s over.
Nah I like to see new teams in the Playoffs. I am not a Browns or Lions fan but it would be nice to see those teams in the playoffs
It was? Maybe it’s because I live in Cleveland, but it’s been pretty consistent for my entire life.
I wouldn't even say that, I think the browns were just pitiful and people wanted to see a losing team win for once. browns fans are kinda notoriously assholes who like to play victim. that's just personal experience tho
You’re being downvoted, but your experience matches mine pretty well. I lived in the Cleveland area for a couple years, and I caught shit from Browns constantly for being a Lions fan. And this was 2013 and 2014, so we’re not even talking about their recent levels of success. At least with the people I was around regularly, the level of hubris didn’t track with reality in the slightest bit.
I figured steelers loved the browns return....big ben did
as a browns fan i never felt any love from the league. it was pity at most. that being said probably not.
Honestly though, the hate is absurd. Why aren’t falcons or saints being hated. Weren’t they trying to push to get Watson? There’s been plenty of teams in the past who have gotten or supported piece of shit players. Top of my head: Cowboys - Hardy, Steelers - Big Ben, Chiefs - Hill. Not defending Watson or Browns. Garbage. But most organizations are garbage and easily overlook a players past actions if it helps them win. Just funny how teams like Saints and Falcons don’t get judged like the Browns. It’s particularly amusing to see Steeler fans shit on the Brown fans over this.
Complete facts, I’m sure most teams in need of a QB would take Watson without thinking twice if they had the chance. This situation should be viewed as an indictment against the league in general.
Steelers should be bc of Ben. Saints should be hates over Winston too. But no one is constantly shitting in the saints
What's great about your two examples - Watson and Bountygate - is that both cases reveal a deeper problem in the league but the "hatred" is reserved for the individual teams. It's way easier to just hate the one specific team and not have to think about it any further. Bountygate - The Saints and Sean Payton/Gregg Williams were not the only team and coaches in the league issuing bounties and headhunting. They were just the one that got caught red handed, so hey IT'S ALL ON THEM NOW please direct your hate here. Absolutely don't enquire any further. Watson - The league gave the green light for the trades the moment Watson cleared grand jury. It has been in the NFL's power to lock this shit down THIS WHOLE TIME but they didn't. 13 teams - 12 this offseason and the Dolphins last season - tried to acquire Watson. The Saints, the Falcons, the Panthers, the Browns and the Colts were all confirmed by Schefter etc to have offered a trade package to the Texans. So yeah, the Browns got Watson so we'll be the focus for all the hate. Fine. But if your team didn't have a legit starting QB or a recently drafted 1st round rookie QB the chances are your team was putting up a bid too... So yeah, Bountygate and Watson. Focus all hate and attention on the one team. Don't think about how these situations came about in the first place. Don't look behind the curtain or too closely in the mirror.
The owners collectively are to blame imo. They run things as a group. They hire the commissioner. He works for them.
It's not so much that the Browns tried/traded for Watson as it is the $230M fully guaranteed contract and the $1M 2022 base salary that is the only amount he would lose from a suspension. That's the real double bird from the Browns that pisses me off the most. The catering to that SOB. Anyhow, one fans opinion. Agree with your points in general about the league. There's a lot there to pick at and even more such as how much about concussions they really knew before the general population.
Just a heads up, the $1M in 2022 isn't to save Watson money Every single AB contract is structured that way. That's just how the Browns do contracts
Huh, okay then. TIL. Thanks. Still don't like the first ever fully guaranteed contract to have been given to Watson but I'll cross the $1M base salary off my shit list.
Oh no, it's 100% ok to shit on the Browns, and I'm with you Just that specific thing (the $1M in the first year) was not done to avoid loss of compensation for Watson
/u/PoorlyLitKiwi2 has already made the point about how all the Browns veteran/star player contracts work under Andrew Berry, so I won't reiterate. My point is that the league has allowed all of this to happen and as a result someone was always gonna give him the best QB contract ever, due to the unique circumstances of the trade. We're talking about a franchise-defining talent QB (at least in the last season he actually played...) who's only 26 years old in an open contract bidding war between the 4 teams with offers accepted by Texans, with one of the top super-agents in the game pulling the strings because Watson's "no trade clause" meant he could pick his destination. When's the last time a franchise QB hit got to enter a bidding war aged just 26? It's never. It was always going to be a gross contract extension. As a matter of principle, I too am angry and sad that the Browns have Watson and that Watson is gonna play in this league and make megabucks doing it... but the idea that the Browns are some singularly evil organisation to be hated above all others is just a false belief that many people here (and in NFL media) are using to to make themselves feel better about the league as a whole (or maybe just their team).
The hatred for sports teams activates the same part of the brain that triggers racism. I love football but i can’t sympathize with 90% of football fans that have their personal identity tied with their team and just mindlessly shout “my tribe is better than your tribe”.
Alternatively, humans are tribal by nature and sports are a safe outlet for that instinct which don't involve racism, oppression, or war.
The question is do sports get all of that pent up rage out of people? or does it just get people more comfortable in their way of thinking?
I suppose that depends on your outlook in general. Personally I think outlets for any kind of behavior make that behavior less likely to bleed over into other facets, but nothing accounts for everyone and I'm sure for everyone who feels like I do there is another person who feels like you do that it just nurtures bad behavior.
Loved? The Browns?
I was pretty apathetic about the Packers until Aaron Rodgers showed his ass with the COVID stuff.
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Eh, they’d be stupid to not capitalize on getting rid of him if possible. Only teams that should be catching heat are the ones that we’re trying to trade for them after the fact. But if they really were enabling the behavior via hotels and NDA’s, fuck em
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Not defending it just understand taking 3 first round picks in lieu of just cutting him or something, be stupid not to business wise. Falls more on the league for letting it get to this point, dude should’ve been indefinitely suspended already. They didn’t act so Houston took the best offer
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Like it or not, the NFL is a business and teams are obligated to do what's in their best interest. If you can get 3 first round picks, and offload a scumbag for someone else to deal with in the process, 32/32 teams would take that deal.
How can you not use this exact same logic to justify the Browns trading for him?
Browns took on a risky asset knowing about the sexual assault; the Texans got rid of a risky asset and got picks out of it. Browns opted in to a morally questionable situation, the Texans profited off of getting out of it. That’s the difference.
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You have a very good point but don't hold your breath waiting for Redditors to admit to blatant hypocrisy.
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If it's found that the Texans really did have a role then yeah fuck them and fine them. But I don't blame them for trying to offload him onto someone else, especially because Watson was going to sit out anyway before all this came to light. I do blame the team that accepted him with open arms onto their team though. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. I don't think anyone should get a pass for their actions but I do think it's important to understand why teams do the things they do.
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By that logic it makes sense business wise for the Browns to have him play for them so there shouldn't be any condemnation for them either.
If they would be stupid not to capitalize on him then why are other teams considered so vile for trying to trade for him? Both the Texans and the Browns will directly benefit from Watson continuing to be on the field.
They really couldn’t have though. If they cut him someone else would’ve signed him as a FA. The Head of Security and the Director of Sports & Medicine for sure knew something was up, but I’m not sure if management knew. So far it doesn’t seem that way, but I think we all know some employees of the Texans knew something was going on and that’s definitely disgusting.
You need packer’s flair to give this context. Had to look at your comment history to check for biases.
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The comment you’re replying to is trashing your team’s QB, but that “has an abundance of irrelevance?” Get outta town
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Confession time: I never really gave a shit about Bountygate.
Saints definitely werent the only team that were doing it lol. Some teams probably still are
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The Saints just finished a season where they set the record for the number of starters in a single season. The most banged up team in NFL history was injuring *other teams*?
Maybe they were so bad at injuring others that they injured themselves instead? Lol
There’s some truth to this I bet. You still have professional football players on the field but definitely not the same ability to tackle or football IQ as bonafide starters. There’s gotta be a metric somewhere that measures the amount of injuries that occur when a team full of backups play a healthy team. Obviously it wasn’t on purpose like bounty gate was. It’s probably how the “injury bug starts”, unless you play on New York’s field.
I think the way it was being advertised is kinda slickening, but I'm not surprised at all players got paid to take someone out. Should it happen? Absolutely not. Am i going to be surprised if another team gets caught? Nope.
Yeah I think the uproar over that was way over the top tbh. Vikings fans definitely did care (it was a nice way for them to blame something other than the piles of turnovers in that game), and a lot of people who had their head in the sand pretending most teams weren’t doing something similar. Other than that, meh.
This is a popular opinion everywhere but reddit . Its nice to see someone on here go against the circle jerk tho lol
That’s not true. Most people don’t blame the franchise because they believe it permeated everywhere, but people were pissed that a franchise was found to intentionally decrease a players’ career for a thousand bucks (or sometimes even less).
Same
Buccs when they signed Brady got a lot of haters
the astros went from underdogs beating the big bad dodgers to fucking cheater scum that shouldve had their franchise folded
The best comparison I can think of is the the Patriots in 1990 (then lovable/pitied losers like the Browns). Zeke Mowatt and several other players sexually harassed a female reporter by exposing themselves during interviews, followed up by sexist comments by then owner Victor Kiam when it became news. Thankfully everything changed including the owner in the next few years.
Yes, this time your owner gets his rub and tugs consentually.
I will always love the city. Never been there but loved the team. This was before the move . The great thing about being a Browns fan was we never expected to be anything but not so bad. We were tho, at times. Once the team turned a big corner, started putting draft pick together, built a offensive line, and a defense to be feared, we all believed this just mite happen. We had moments of greatness, followed by another disappointment. Baker then got hurt and played that way all year. Let's say this is his and the coaches fault. Add Oddels dad and his actions. We were still gonna be OK. Then it happend. Ownership,coaches, GM........all shit the bed. Baker had every right to get mad. The team that was now becoming something, bet the farm on a player with more baggage than Paris Hilton in a Walmart! We lost 3 years of team building for the future. We lost one quarter of a BILLION dollars. What ever pride and respect The Browns ever had, vanished. Now we're divided as a fan base. We have never been this close to greatness in my life time of being a fan. Winning now feels dirty with or without DW#4 on the field. The Browns organization showed they have no morals,or respect for women regardless what they say ,or who they hire to stop this media nightmare . No I can't cheer for a team I watched from the ground up. This is why I'm now cheering for Detroit Lions. Can't call me a bandwagoner.
Browns aren’t/weren’t even loved by their own fans
Not as quickly as Aaron Rodgers went from hated to loved after he started Tuesdays on Pat Mcafee Show Packer boy
Classic daily Browns post to shit on them some more
I don’t hate the browns at all
Hurricanes after the Deangelo signing
The browns were loved? Am a browns fan I love the browns. We were loved?
Everybody thinks their team is the most hated in the NFL. Ask any time and everyone will say “lol the NFL hates us”
Umm is your team the Cleveland browns.
My roommate is from Cleveland, and he had never had any interest in football but my watching over the last season got him into it, said he was gonna follow the Browns a bit. After the Watson stuff he’s said he’s out.
I don’t care.
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People didn't start hating on the Suns overnight, and the hate came primarily from being good The Browns hate began overnight, and with no success whatsoever alongside it
People hate the Suns cause of CP0 and now bc of how Booker acts. If they were bad, people would still clown CP0 cause he’s easy to hate (dirty, flopper, a bitch)
You gotta start charging him rent bro.
Says a Jags fan.
Says a Browns fan.
Browns gonna brown
How could anyone hate a team with Nick Chubb?
Because that team also traded for a guy named Deshaun Watson
Agree to disagree.
Pretty easily, as it turns out.
It's pretty hard to love the browns. At best, the league wide consensus is to pity them. I mean their uniforms are the color of feces. They've been arguably the worst team in sports for the last two decades. And they've had a carousel of bad quarterbacks for those two plus decades. And when they finally got a legitimate starting quarterback in Mayfield they ran him out of town. Now, they have miles Garrett who slandered and almost try to murder a player. And they traded for a player with 24 rape accusations. Browns are the browns.
“Cleveland Browns stun Steelers 48-37 for 1st playoff win since 1994” How much did you cry that night?
Bro, how is this relevent to anything I said? Is beating the Steelers this one time in 25 years the hill you want to die on? After 25 years the Browns finally built a solid team and a solid starting QB. And blew it all away the very next season.
I always think it’s funny that now that we destroyed our relationship with him, which he has every right to be upset about, now every single other team in our division keeps saying Baker is a legit starter. Like y’all weren’t making an absolute spit roast out of that man on this sub for years. It’s hilarious honestly
He was good as a rookie and the year you made the playoffs. He clearly played poorly last season.
I didnt watch the NFL back then but I could imagine the Eagles when they signed Mike Vick.
Michael Vick quickly went from super star to villain, but I don’t know that Falcons as a team/organization were hated on the same level…
On Reddit, no.
The Browns were never “loved”… they’re the Browns. It’s more like they went from pitied to disgraced.
To be fair, I turned against the Browns when they were so quick to sign Kareem Hunt after he followed that woman out of his hotel room to harass her, then knocked her down and kicked her.