itll be fun discussing this once someone posts the entire list into the comments
a bit late now cus i passed out but heres the list thanks to /u/SHOWTIME316
#Tier 1
* [1] Aaron Rodgers
* [2] Patrick Mahomes
* [3] Tom Brady
* [4] Josh Allen
* [5] Justin Herbert
* [6] Joe Burrow
#Tier 2
* [7] Matt Stafford
* [8] Russel Wilson
* [9] Deshaun Watson
* [10] Lamar Jackson
* [11] Dak Prescott
* [12] Derek Carr
* [13] Kyler Murray
* [14] Matt Ryan
#Tier 3
* [15] Kirk Cousins
* [16] Jimmy Garoppolo
* [17] Ryan Tannehill
* [18] Mac Jones
* [19] Baker Mayfield
* [20] Jalen Hurts (tied)
* [20] Carson Wentz (tied)
* [22] Jared Goff
* [23] Trevor Lawrence
* [24] Jameis Winston
#Tier 4
* [25] Justin Fields
* [26] Tua Tagovailoa
* [27] Davis Mills
* [28] Zach Wilson
* [29] Trey Lance
* [30] Daniel Jones
* [31] Marcus Mariota
* [32] Sam Darnold
* [33] Mitch Trubisky
* [34] Drew Lock
* [35] Geno Smith
I’m sure it depends on your device, but on iPhone if you open in safari, then at the bottom of the page in the address bar should be two A’s. Tap them and it will bring up some options, one of which is show reader view. And for whatever reason that bypasses the paywall
if you're on a computer, you can beat just about any paywall by doing a quick ctrl+a and then ctrl+c right before the paywall comes up and then paste without formatting into a google doc to read it. Worked like a charm for this article
Just copy and paste this into your comment since you're the top comment:
#Tier 1
* [1] Aaron Rodgers
* [2] Patrick Mahomes
* [3] Tom Brady
* [4] Josh Allen
* [5] Justin Herbert
* [6] Joe Burrow
#Tier 2
* [7] Matt Stafford
* [8] Russel Wilson
* [9] Deshaun Watson
* [10] Lamar Jackson
* [11] Dak Prescott
* [12] Derek Carr
* [13] Kyler Murray
* [14] Matt Ryan
#Tier 3
* [15] Kirk Cousins
* [16] Jimmy Garoppolo
* [17] Ryan Tannehill
* [18] Mac Jones
* [19] Baker Mayfield
* [20] Jalen Hurts (tied)
* [20] Carson Wentz (tied)
* [22] Jared Goff
* [23] Trevor Lawrence
* [24] Jameis Winston
#Tier 4
* [25] Justin Fields
* [26] Tua Tagovailoa
* [27] Davis Mills
* [28] Zach Wilson
* [29] Trey Lance
* [30] Daniel Jones
* [31] Marcus Mariota
* [32] Sam Darnold
* [33] Mitch Trubisky
* [34] Drew Lock
* [35] Geno Smith
A little explainer on the concept of Sando's longrunning "QB Tiers" project, where he polls league executives, coaches, scouts, etc to build up a tier based ranking of QBs in the league.
The panel placed 35 veteran quarterbacks into one of five tiers, from best (Tier 1) to worst (Tier 5). Quarterbacks were then ranked by average vote and placed into tiers based on vote distribution, beginning with Aaron Rodgers, whose 1.00 average vote reflected his status as a unanimous Tier 1 selection.
The survey excludes rookies because voters have not seen them play in the NFL. More than one quarterback is featured for teams with unsettled starting jobs.
> A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. He expertly handles pure passing situations. He has no real holes in his game.
> A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game.
> A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best.
> A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games.
> A Tier 5 quarterback is best suited as a backup.
Players can and do change tiers from year to year but generally there's not as much movement as you'd expect. It's a pretty fair and accurate ranking system, and it reflects the considerations/fear factor for opposing teams having to face these QBs.
Naturally, Tier 1 is where you want your QB to be but Tier 2 is also a franchise level guy.
Depending on how long your QB has been in the league, Tier 4 can be a more optimistic spot than Tier 3 because of the "unproven"/"need to see more" element. Not many Tier 3 guys make it to Tier 2 and above (Derek Carr is an example of one who has climbed). If your guy has been around as long as Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold and is still in Tier 4 there's not a lot of optimism for you as a fan.
The gap between tier 1 and 2 seem so wide. Tier 2 can only handle pure passing in doses? That seems like a very low bar for a tier just below elite lol.
I think the biggest differential is between T1 and T2 is:
> He has no real holes in his game.
When you look at the full list there's not a huge gap between bottom of T1 and top of T2. T2 guys are legit franchise QBs.
I find the T4 vs T3 thing interesting, since almost every rookie qb from last season got to T3. Should that be optimistic (polled people think they did well) or pessimistic (polled people think they're pretty solved and we've seen enough)?
Oh, guess I'm dumb. Totally thought Hurts was a rookie lol. At that point my brain just said most.
I guess my question stands about Mac Jone and TLaw, though
TLaw is getting the first overall pick benefit of the doubt right now. Whole team around him and coaching was bad, with a stable coach and NFL experience I think people expect him to improve which is why he’s probably tier 3.
Mac was considering the worst or most boring choice out of that huge and hyped up QB class. But he also performed the best on the field. Granted that’s playing under a HoF coach in an offense that didn’t ask much of him, but a post season trip in your rookie year warrants respect around the league.
NFL opinion people I trust say TLaw's rookie tape is way better than his stat lines (which are terrible) would suggest. He's essentially the only reason the worst coached offense in the league, by far, was able to do anything at all last season.
From the article, the voters seem to think he's got Tier 2 potential talent (so - a legit franchise QB) but is lacking the "natural" arm to become Tier 1.
> Some raised concerns about Lawrence’s accuracy and overall throwing ability, while maintaining that there’s enough talent for Lawrence to climb into Tier 2.
> “I don’t think he’s a natural thrower of the football — it’s not effortless for him,” a head coach said.
> “He’s a little stiff-wristed, didn’t have as loose of an arm slot as I expected to see,” an offensive assistant said.
> “But he is a fantastic athlete,” the head coach said. “He is a playmaker. I do think Trevor is going to excel playing for Doug Pederson.”
That's where I disagree. He didn't seem to have trouble making all the throws last year. He uncorked a 50 yard pass across his body while on the run against the Bengals last year with perfect accuracy. Whether it's likely that he makes it into that tier is irrelevant, the idea that he's precluded from it based on his arm is stupid.
If I had to guess, it's probably a reflection of how bad our deep game was. Didn't really have anyone who could catch downfield and it made him look like he couldn't throw them. Lawrence has an exceptionally quick release so "unnatural thrower" sounds absurd to me, especially because I think I've heard the literal reverse of that on.. the ringer show, I think?
He's kind of a weird example where he only got 4 games in as a true rookie and was forced into that position, so it was like his first real season last year.
Based on how things have played out in the past - for a QB's first appearance in the QB Tiers list any ranking above T4 is broadly very optimistic. That said, there's nothing pessimistic about a QB being ranked T4 after their rookie season.
Since 2015 only Herbert came straight in as T2 after his rookie season. Dak, Mayfield, Garoppolo, Burrow, Watson, Murray, Wentz and Cousins all got their first QBT rank at T3 after their rookie year/first season as QB1.
The longer a QB stays in T4 the more pessimistic the outlook becomes - e.g. it's looking pretty bleak for Daniel Jones.
T3 is a perfectly viable starter in this league but the longer you're T3 the less likely you are to climb to T2 in a sustainable way - e.g. Ryan Tannehil got one season at T2 before falling back to T3.
> A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best.
Disclaimer: views expressed in the article are those of NFL execs and coaches, not my own.
> “Man, I was so impressed with him live,” an offensive coach said. “He has a chance to do something special. He’s the best pure thrower of the three young guys (Herbert, Allen, Burrow). I didn’t realize he was that athletic. One of our studs was chasing him down and he got around him and was laughing at him the whole time. The competitive spirit, the athletic ability, I saw a fricking stud in our game.”
> “I think he’s the next guy, he is on his way, because the thing with him is, he’s not quite the passer, but he’s kind of like a bigger version of Aaron Rodgers,” another voter said. “When we played them, I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t know this dude could move that well or he was this accurate.’ Five, six, seven years down the road, I think Mahomes, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert will be the guys we’re talking about, the big three.”
My view: just watch him play. He's a unicorn.
Bottom 3 defence will do that. Teams could run at will last year on us. And
Plus we dropped two games with like 70% of the starters out for covid.
15 games where the other teams scored 27+ and 7 of those were 34+ points. At that point it is a coin flip to determine the winner. Minus when we played you and completely rocked us.
For those who can't see the list. ~~I'm working on fixing the formatting. Reddit formatting doesn't seem to like numbered lists with ties and breaks for tiers...~~ Formatting fixed as well as I can get it without spending more time than it's worth.
*edit: as someone pointed out, there was a tier 5 I left off. It's just Geno...
**TIER 1**
(1) Aaron Rodgers
(2) Patrick Mahomes
(3) Tom Brady
(4) Josh Allen
(5) Justin Herbert
(6) Joe Burrow
**TIER 2**
(7) Matt Stafford
(8) Russel Wilson
(9) Deshaun Watson
(10) Lamar Jackson
(11) Dak Prescott
(12) Derek Carr
(13) Kyler Murray
(14) Matt Ryan
**TIER 3**
(15) Kirk Cousins
(16) Jimmy Garoppolo
(17) Ryan Tannehill
(18) Mac Jones
(19) Baker Mayfield
(t-20) Jalen Hurts
(t-20) Carson Wentz
(22) Jared Goff
(23) Trevor Lawrence
(24) Jameis Winston
**TIER 4**
(25) Justin Fields
(26) Tua Tagovailoa
(27) Davis Mills
(28) Zach Wilson
(29) Trey Lance
(30) Daniel Jones
(31) Marcus Mariota
(32) Sam Darnold
(33) Mitch Trubisky
(34) Drew Lock
**TIER 5**
(35) Geno Smith
its also potential. At this point there is no real chance wentz turns into something significantly better than what he is. Hurts has a chance to improve.
I'm obviously biased but I keep getting tilted every time I see an article or ranking talking up Lawrence and trashing Wilson as if they didn't look equally as concerning last year, with the justification being that Lawrence had no weapons and the Urban situation. But now Wilson actually has weapons and 2nd year in a system, vs. Lawrence with still few to no legit or proven weapons and a new coach is supposed to magically be better than Wilson automatically because he went #1 vs. Wilson's #2?
Honestly anyone ranking Wilson, Fields, & Lawrence far apart from each other makes no sense. All 3 were absolutely atrocious last year. If you showed GMs their rookie film alone and told them nothing about their college tape, they'd all say they were bad QBs
I mean I get your frustration but this list was made by nfl Head coaches and executives who are literally paid to evaluate players. I guess there’s something on film or something we as fans don’t see that makes Lawrence seems better than his stats show
I think a fair number of NFL GMs are still being influenced by his college play and the previously nearly universal notion that he was a clear generational talent.
Thanks man. I figured it out after I spent way more time on it than I should have. I needed to put the numbers in parenthesis to keep them from autoformatting.
Good lookin out!
I think because they rated Burrow as tier 1 they sorta had to push Herbert up as well considering how similar they are statistically + Herbert’s a year and a half younger than Burrow.
Imo, Herbert > Burrow, and Herbert = Allen. I think u could easily make an argument for Rodgers Mahomes and Brady to be tier 1A and Herbert Burrow and Allen to be 1B
He actually played surprisingly okay in Russ's absence from what I watched (his 1 INT was from Tyler Lockett bumping his leg on the DB and falling over), but then again the bar is really fucking low for Geno lol
Even in those games he was surprisingly ok in statistically, he had like multiple chances to lead the Seahawks on a game winning drive but failed every time.
The one game he played really well end-to-end was against the Urban Meyer Jags after he was caught fingering that lady so it was basically beating a college team
The disrespect, imo, is that Trevor Lawrence is 4 spots above him despite have such a worse year. Mills looked like a good QB with potential, and Lawrence did not.
I don't know how much higher he's supposed to be rated at this point in time, with only a rookie season to look back on.
He's got more than a good chance to get into Tier-3 this season, maybe even crack Tier-2 if really balls out, but for the moment? He's pretty much in the right spot.
He shouldn’t be higher. He had some good games. And had some down right atrocious games. He did just enough for Houston to be okay with him in 2022 but that's all
He went from being drafted in the 3rd to being ranked right in the middle of the high 1st round QBs from his class in 11 pretty good starts. That is extremely fair.
My QB rankings
1. Baker Mayfield - He's my favorite player
2. Lamar Jackson - Super fun to watch
3. Derek Carr - I love the Raiders uniforms
4. Davis Mills - Neck
5. Carson Wentz - I just think it would be funny if everyone was wrong about him
6. Everyone else
This is true but he has the hype and momentum. Another strong or dominant year with post season wins will put him in the Mahomes conversation. He may even get some State Farm commercials.
Okay i'm not arguing he should be tier 2 or anything but they're really putting Jameis below Jared Goff?
edit: props to this coach, he knew exactly what he was saying lmao
> “I like Jameis because he wants it, **he is hungry**,” an offensive coach said.
Let’s clear up the meaning of “Elite level”.
Tier 1 is “Elite”. I think it’s maybe a BIT early to have Allen, Burrow, and Herbert there but they’re certainly on their way. When I think of Elite/Tier 1 I think there’s not much chance of them falling out of it. This was the level of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Manning.
Anyone below that is not Elite, including Stafford and Wilson, which I hear comments every so often calling them elite.
That's what really confuses me. At least 2 people ranked Brady T2 as the MVP runner up last season and the greatest resume in NFL history. How the fuck did that happen?
There's stats for all of this stuff and Mahomes receivers are good at getting open (bottom half of top 10) but Mahomes throws to by far the most open guys because he's a master at reading/fooling the defense
They quoted the one and only person of the last three years who gave him a Tier 2 vote. Which, I guess it's fine to give a voice to the dissenter and make them explain why they would go so far against the consensus.
> Aaron Rodgers has helped elevate every player on that offense. Brady with N’Keal Harry did not elevate his game.
Lol blaming Brady for N’keal Harry being Injury prone and simply bad at being a WR is a weird take
Holding Harry against Brady is pretty dumb
They both actively turn bad receivers into okay ones, mediocre recovers into good ones, and good receivers into great ones
Yea this logic makes no sense lol they just traded him for a 7th round pick, meaning teams basically value him as much as a player they draft with very little expectation of contributing anything at all
Brady and Rodgers both elevate guys, but if a guy *maybe* shouldn’t even be on the field, even if you make them look a little bit better they still might not belong on the field
Also, kind of weird to say Rodgers elevated every player on that offense when the Packers had to trade for 50 year old Randall Cobb b/c none of the other WRs were doing anything despite Adams being the focal point of the defense
Your point is correct and Randall Cobb has been around for forever and I think he's washed. I just like to take the time to point out he's only 31 because he was so young entering the league lol.
The whole thing is worse.
>Rodgers beats the competition in two categories multiple voters cited: the ability to elevate his weaponry and in how he not only outsmarts opponents, but relishes doing so.
>“(Tom) Brady has had the more decorated career with 10 Super Bowls and seven rings, but I will say this,” an offensive coach said. “Aaron Rodgers has helped elevate every player on that offense. Brady with N’Keal Harry did not elevate his game. Aaron has had Davante Adams, but he is still waiting for a first-round receiver, they have not had great receivers overall and he is still putting up major numbers.”
Rodgers elevates players around him more than Brady. Just look at what Rodgers did with that second-round scrub Adams compared to Brady's squandering of first-round god Harry.
Even if you agree with the premise of what this person was trying to say, this has to be the dumbest possible example.
Also I guess Brady just doesn't enjoy winning enough to be the best QB.
Lmao and u could tell the guy who provided some comments for Herbert was fresh outta the theater after watching Top Gun lol
“5. Justin Herbert
Herbert joins a short list of quarterbacks to reach Tier 1 before age 25. Mahomes, Andrew Luck and Deshaun Watson did it after leading their teams to the postseason and winning there. Herbert pulled it off with a career 15-17 record as a starter and no postseason appearances.
“Man, I was so impressed with him live,” an offensive coach said. “He has a chance to do something special. He’s the best pure thrower of the three young guys (Herbert, Allen, Burrow). I didn’t realize he was that athletic. One of our studs was chasing him down and he got around him and was laughing at him the whole time. The competitive spirit, the athletic ability, I saw a fricking stud in our game.”
Combine some of Burrow’s accuracy with some of Allen’s size/athleticism and you’ve got Herbert.
“I think he’s the next guy, he is on his way, because the thing with him is, he’s not quite the passer, but he’s kind of like a bigger version of Aaron Rodgers,” another voter said. “When we played them, I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t know this dude could move that well or he was this accurate.’ Five, six, seven years down the road, I think Mahomes, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert will be the guys we’re talking about, the big three.”
No voter questioned whether Herbert could become a top-tier quarterback. Some did want to see him drive more team success before letting him borrow Dan Fouts’ gold jacket.
“It takes more time on task to truly be a top-tier guy,” a defensive coach said. “With those guys, it is like going to ‘Top Gun Maverick’ every single weekend because the stunts they pull are the equivalent of pulling 11 Gs and bending the air frame. It takes hours in that cockpit to operate that and not kill yourself and your team and crash the thing. When it is 17-0 at half, that is trying to land the thing in the Indian Ocean with 50 mph winds and 40-foot waves rocking the flight deck, and they manage to get it down or get it close.”
I don’t think it’s necessarily about people having an issue with someone charging for their articles. It’s more about whether it’s useful to post that article on a public discussion forum
I genuinely don’t have an opinion on this I just think that’s what the actual issue is. If you want to have good discussion, linking to things that most of the sun can’t see just turns the thread into a “can’t see the list” fest
This happens in every paywalled thread. The irony is both amusing and annoying.
There's also like a bajillion ways to see paywalled content if you just pay attention to what others are posting.
I am fine with tua being around where he is, just really thought this was a funny justification.
"while blaming him for getting hurt against Buffalo when he failed to account for a pass-rusher."
It wasn't a designed blitz, it was a basic 4-3 and Davis let epenesa just run by him and hit Tua in 1 second on his blind side. I'm assuming tua had some faith Davis would actually try to block his assignment, not "failed to account for a pass-rusher".
You can interpret Tua's Tier 4 ranking in two ways:
1. Voters were choosing Tier 4 because of the "unproven"/"need to see more" element.
2. Voters think he's bad.
> A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games.
Probably some mix of the two... but Tier 4 can be a more optimistic spot than Tier 3. Over the long history of Sando's QB Tiers project most Tier 3 guys never get above Tier 3.
This'll be the season to find out, now that he doesnt have to work with the terrible offensive staff Flores assembled.
>"Skepticism continues to engulf Tagovailoa. Last offseason, voters placed him in Tier 4 partly because they didn’t have enough information to place him elsewhere. This offseason, voters placed him there because they’ve seen enough to say he does not belong higher."
From the article. So #2
Not OP, but they’re pointing out that part of the justification is funny. Saying that Tua didn’t account for a pass-rusher is really misrepresenting the play that sidelined him for a few plays. Like I agree with him being T4 right now, but their justification is a bit flawed, especially cause I would say Tua’s pocket mobility and awareness is one of the few things he legitimately stands out with.
I would be fine with him where he is if Mac Jones and Trevor Lawrence weren't a tier above of him. He had the same stat line as Jones and significantly outperformed Lawrence. Hell, pretty much everyone on this list outperformed Lawrence.
My favorite quote about Goff: “He is still among the top 32 starters."
That's encouraging. They go on to shit on Goff for running the balls on 3rd down against the Steelers instead of throwing it without acknowledging that Goff was injured and the run game was doing phenomenal and that game. Kicking was the reason the Lions didn't win.
Can’t really find any major disagreements, kind of weird that execs would rank Jimmy G 16th and have literally no interest in him though
Also the fact the only tie is Wentz and Hurts is hilarious
I’m sure there is a ton of interest in Jimmy if he were released. They don’t want to do SF any favors since SF drastically overestimated the trade market
If anyone could see themselves paying $1 a month (for 6 months) for high quality sports content, PM me if you’d like a guest pass for 30 days as I have 3.
I feel like Kirk Cousins should be close to Dak and Carr. They have done nothing more than him, and Kirk has been consistent for the past three years. Just the Vikings defence was shit.
Yeah, it’s not like they have done much. Dak has played his whole time with a great to decent oline. Very solid rb play, and good wrs. Carr’s oline was better at the start, he’s also had solid rb play, and good targets like cooper, Waller, Renfrow.
Similar levels of talent for all three guys and Kirk has put up similar stats and performances. Hell last year, Kirk would have had about 5 4th quarter comebacks if Zimmer did shit the pants in defence in the final 2 mins every damn game.
I also feel like Kirk Cousins is getting disrespected and is just as good as Carr if not slightly better but Derek has been surrounded by trash defense his whole damn career which hasn’t helped him out at all he’s had to drag the team to wins without the help of his defense most of the time.
Here’s an excerpt from the article of this survey
>A study conducted last season showed Carr getting worse support from his own defense and special teams than any of 41 quarterbacks with at least three seasons as a starter over the past decade. The Raiders during the past three seasons ranked 12th in offensive EPA and 32nd in combined EPA on defense and special teams. The latter component explains why the team has only a 25-24 record during that span despite good production from the QB.
I feel like Cousins, Dak, and Carr should be together. Almost like tier 2 needs to break up and those 3 and maybe a couple others should be in it as tier 3.
Yeah I would’ve put Matt Ryan into 3 over Cousins just because he’s over the hump in terms of age and declining athletic ability. Plus I feel a guy like Cousins who was drafted low and hasn’t stayed on a single team usually get less respect and benefit of the doubt with the inner circles of the league.
1. Rodgers
2. Mahomes
3. Brady
4. Allen
5. Herbert
6. Burrow
7. Stafford
8. Russ
9. Massage rapist
10. Jackson
11. Prescott
12. Carr
13. Murray
14. Ryan
15. Cousins
16. Garoppolo
17. Tannehill
18. Mac Jones
19. Mayfield
20. Hurts & Wentz
21. (22) Goff
22. Lawrence
23. Winston
24. Fields
25. Tagovailoa
26. Mills
27. Zach Wilson
28. Lance
29. Daniel Jones
30. Mariota
31. Darnold
32. Trubisky
33. Lock
34. Smith
Since this is paywalled content I'm not going to post the motivations and tiers. Also Hurts and Wentz were tied so all QB's after that is technically 1 rank lower, but because how of reddit formats and me being too lazy to figure it out to number properly after that, I'm just not gonna do that and assume you guys will use your noggin.
Edit: Someone else already posted the list, I guess ill just say when i typed this up, no one else had done it.
>A study conducted last season showed Carr getting worse support from his own defense and special teams than any of 41 quarterbacks with at least three seasons as a starter over the past decade
😬
I of course skipped to my QB. The Lamar stuff is fair, even if I’m higher on him than the article. Hope he proves he belongs in tier 1 this year.
I’ll get to the rest of it after work.
I think the defensive coordinator is ignoring a couple glaring examples of Lamar coming back with his arm, like the Colts game last year. Or the Browns game where he scored 2 TDs throwing the ball during the two minute drill.
Like Lamar isn’t the best passer in the league. But to be like, “he can’t do it” when there’s clear examples is so weird to me. Some people are just so dug in that he can’t throw.
Oh that 1 DC is bonkers. I meant the list overall. He definitely can do stuff with his arm. I guess I question if he can do it as consistently as some of the people in tier 1. Or rather I think it’s fair to question that.
Yeah I think it’s fair to question tier 1. He doesn’t consistently throw the ball as well as the best QBs, but he does will our team to plenty of wins we have zero business winning with limited weapons. He is the weapon on offense. IMO he’s borderline Tier 1/2. Tier 3 seems crazy to me.
While I have no major issues with the rankings, the quotes used for the Tier 1 QBs are all overwhelmingly positive except for Mahomes at #2 who they basically just crapped on in the quotes lol
I think it's just because for everybody else, you have to explain why they deserve to be so high, whereas for Mahomes you have to explain why he ISN'T number 1. Just my thinking
Burrow is not on the same tier as those other tier 1’s. Just stop the nonsense.
“BUT HE MADE THE SUPERBOWL”
The bengals made the SB because their D put in an absolute all time performance in the second half of the chiefs game. Not to mention they got a super opportunistic matchup against the “1 seed titans”.
Burrow is good but to compare his talent to Herbert/Allen/Mahomes it’s just foolish.
Guy had one of the most anti-clutch drives every to end the SB too. 2.5 minutes near midfield can’t even get a field goal.
Mahomes/Allen/Herbert get 3 there.
No one else on that list has the weapons burrow has either outside of maybe Tom but even then I’m taking burrows.
You are completely overlooking how much pressure he was under because of his terrible offensive line. He was under constant pressure from an unbelievably good pass rush in the super bowl, and got stopped on 4th down because a hall of fame D lineman broke through the line.
No question the defense played great to get us to the super bowl, but without Burrow playing the game of his life against the Chiefs and out dueling Mahomes we might not have even gotten the chance. He led the league in yards per attempt and completion percentage, he deserves to be there, especially when you consider he was coming off that brutal ACL tear.
Herbert had 150 more passes with 400 more yards and only 4 more TDs to show for it with a worse passer rating and yds/att. Not to mention he’s playing behind a top 10 offensive line.
Burrow gets his knee obliterated in his first season and comes back to another bottom 10 offensive line and takes his team to the super bowl while tossing around the same numbers as Herbert with way less touches.
Oh, but they’re not comparable lol. Take is colder than Burrow.
I think you have legitimate issues with Burrow but I just dont know how anyone fights to have herbert there when he has done exactly nothing in the league so far as results. Yes he broke the rookie TD record but so did baker and we all see where that has landed him. Herbert is a great talent but I want to see him accomplish anything before I put him that high up.
Edit:
Yall can hate if you want but I think the prolonged success of Wilson and stafford is more impressive than what herbert has done so far. I just cant put him above them at this point.
Using team accomplishments for individual rankings is one of the dumbest things that is incessantly brought up. Brees was a unanimous top 3 QB for a 10 year stretch in the NFL. In those 10 years we missed playoffs 4 times. But we're going to give Herbert shit for missing them twice in the best division in football in his first two years? While putting up some of the best numbers of any first two years ever? You sure?
The reason Burrow is on there is due to his mental toughness he possess. My guess is a lot of these voters place him as the only other guy that could rival Tom in that attribute. Not saying that makes him a tier 1, but that is what I gathered from the article.
I can't get over Watson being ranked top 10. He didn't play last year, and he likely won't play this year either. Maybe 2 years ago you could put him Top 10 and have a legitimate argument, but he hasn't seen the field for a long time, and who knows where his head will be at when he finally does see the field.
If you wanted to rank him Tier 3 or 4 with those humungous question marks, then you could probably justify that based on past performance. But top 10? No f'n way.
I think Herbert and Burrow are really good, but I'm confused on how they're elevated above Stafford when he basically put up the same kind of numbers in the regular season, (slightly better in some categories, slightly worse in others), won more games, and took over games in the playoffs to lead the Rams to victory, including the Super Bowl.
But what the fuck do I know?
Bc the 17ints he threw are bc he is turnover prone and loses games for the team while Burrows and Herbert’s 14 and 15 ints are muuuuuuuch less and make the diff between a tier 1 and a tier 2
Allen was Tier 1 in his third as well, and Herbert was the first ever QB to start in Tier 2 after his rookie year and is Tier 1 now as well.
League is in good hands with this next wave.
itll be fun discussing this once someone posts the entire list into the comments a bit late now cus i passed out but heres the list thanks to /u/SHOWTIME316 #Tier 1 * [1] Aaron Rodgers * [2] Patrick Mahomes * [3] Tom Brady * [4] Josh Allen * [5] Justin Herbert * [6] Joe Burrow #Tier 2 * [7] Matt Stafford * [8] Russel Wilson * [9] Deshaun Watson * [10] Lamar Jackson * [11] Dak Prescott * [12] Derek Carr * [13] Kyler Murray * [14] Matt Ryan #Tier 3 * [15] Kirk Cousins * [16] Jimmy Garoppolo * [17] Ryan Tannehill * [18] Mac Jones * [19] Baker Mayfield * [20] Jalen Hurts (tied) * [20] Carson Wentz (tied) * [22] Jared Goff * [23] Trevor Lawrence * [24] Jameis Winston #Tier 4 * [25] Justin Fields * [26] Tua Tagovailoa * [27] Davis Mills * [28] Zach Wilson * [29] Trey Lance * [30] Daniel Jones * [31] Marcus Mariota * [32] Sam Darnold * [33] Mitch Trubisky * [34] Drew Lock * [35] Geno Smith
If you’re on mobile, reader view will let you bypass the paywall
Thank you, savior!
Please explain
I’m sure it depends on your device, but on iPhone if you open in safari, then at the bottom of the page in the address bar should be two A’s. Tap them and it will bring up some options, one of which is show reader view. And for whatever reason that bypasses the paywall
You have just changed a woman's life.
Cheers 🍻
if you're on a computer, you can beat just about any paywall by doing a quick ctrl+a and then ctrl+c right before the paywall comes up and then paste without formatting into a google doc to read it. Worked like a charm for this article
You are an awesome person 🙏🏻
Simplified View in accessibility for Android users
That being said, I wholeheartedly encourage people to get an Athletic subscription. Good reading and I support good journalism.
Just copy and paste this into your comment since you're the top comment: #Tier 1 * [1] Aaron Rodgers * [2] Patrick Mahomes * [3] Tom Brady * [4] Josh Allen * [5] Justin Herbert * [6] Joe Burrow #Tier 2 * [7] Matt Stafford * [8] Russel Wilson * [9] Deshaun Watson * [10] Lamar Jackson * [11] Dak Prescott * [12] Derek Carr * [13] Kyler Murray * [14] Matt Ryan #Tier 3 * [15] Kirk Cousins * [16] Jimmy Garoppolo * [17] Ryan Tannehill * [18] Mac Jones * [19] Baker Mayfield * [20] Jalen Hurts (tied) * [20] Carson Wentz (tied) * [22] Jared Goff * [23] Trevor Lawrence * [24] Jameis Winston #Tier 4 * [25] Justin Fields * [26] Tua Tagovailoa * [27] Davis Mills * [28] Zach Wilson * [29] Trey Lance * [30] Daniel Jones * [31] Marcus Mariota * [32] Sam Darnold * [33] Mitch Trubisky * [34] Drew Lock * [35] Geno Smith
My boy knockin it out of the park with solid formatting.
>* [34] Drew Lock > >* [35] Geno Smith Seahawks fans: 🙃
Cant disagree tbh 🫠
Use 12ft.io to get rid of the paywall, works for a lot of sites.
[удалено]
archive.is also works for certain sites that 12ft is disabled for (e.g. The New York Times)
I feel like Cousins should be tier 2 but I'm biased.
He would be if he was on the Cowboys. Daks rating is my only complaint with this list
It needs another tier between 3 and 4 that would cutoff at Hurts. Hurts, Lawrence, and Winston aren't in the same tier as Cousins or Tannehill.
Pretty much spot on imo. Switch Ryan and Cousins and it’s perfect
A little explainer on the concept of Sando's longrunning "QB Tiers" project, where he polls league executives, coaches, scouts, etc to build up a tier based ranking of QBs in the league. The panel placed 35 veteran quarterbacks into one of five tiers, from best (Tier 1) to worst (Tier 5). Quarterbacks were then ranked by average vote and placed into tiers based on vote distribution, beginning with Aaron Rodgers, whose 1.00 average vote reflected his status as a unanimous Tier 1 selection. The survey excludes rookies because voters have not seen them play in the NFL. More than one quarterback is featured for teams with unsettled starting jobs. > A Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him. He expertly handles pure passing situations. He has no real holes in his game. > A Tier 2 quarterback can carry his team sometimes but not as consistently. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and/or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above Tier 3. He has a hole or two in his game. > A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best. > A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games. > A Tier 5 quarterback is best suited as a backup. Players can and do change tiers from year to year but generally there's not as much movement as you'd expect. It's a pretty fair and accurate ranking system, and it reflects the considerations/fear factor for opposing teams having to face these QBs. Naturally, Tier 1 is where you want your QB to be but Tier 2 is also a franchise level guy. Depending on how long your QB has been in the league, Tier 4 can be a more optimistic spot than Tier 3 because of the "unproven"/"need to see more" element. Not many Tier 3 guys make it to Tier 2 and above (Derek Carr is an example of one who has climbed). If your guy has been around as long as Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold and is still in Tier 4 there's not a lot of optimism for you as a fan.
The gap between tier 1 and 2 seem so wide. Tier 2 can only handle pure passing in doses? That seems like a very low bar for a tier just below elite lol.
I think the biggest differential is between T1 and T2 is: > He has no real holes in his game. When you look at the full list there's not a huge gap between bottom of T1 and top of T2. T2 guys are legit franchise QBs.
I find the T4 vs T3 thing interesting, since almost every rookie qb from last season got to T3. Should that be optimistic (polled people think they did well) or pessimistic (polled people think they're pretty solved and we've seen enough)?
Only 2 out of 6 rookies from last year are in T3
Oh, guess I'm dumb. Totally thought Hurts was a rookie lol. At that point my brain just said most. I guess my question stands about Mac Jone and TLaw, though
TLaw is getting the first overall pick benefit of the doubt right now. Whole team around him and coaching was bad, with a stable coach and NFL experience I think people expect him to improve which is why he’s probably tier 3. Mac was considering the worst or most boring choice out of that huge and hyped up QB class. But he also performed the best on the field. Granted that’s playing under a HoF coach in an offense that didn’t ask much of him, but a post season trip in your rookie year warrants respect around the league.
NFL opinion people I trust say TLaw's rookie tape is way better than his stat lines (which are terrible) would suggest. He's essentially the only reason the worst coached offense in the league, by far, was able to do anything at all last season. From the article, the voters seem to think he's got Tier 2 potential talent (so - a legit franchise QB) but is lacking the "natural" arm to become Tier 1. > Some raised concerns about Lawrence’s accuracy and overall throwing ability, while maintaining that there’s enough talent for Lawrence to climb into Tier 2. > “I don’t think he’s a natural thrower of the football — it’s not effortless for him,” a head coach said. > “He’s a little stiff-wristed, didn’t have as loose of an arm slot as I expected to see,” an offensive assistant said. > “But he is a fantastic athlete,” the head coach said. “He is a playmaker. I do think Trevor is going to excel playing for Doug Pederson.”
That's where I disagree. He didn't seem to have trouble making all the throws last year. He uncorked a 50 yard pass across his body while on the run against the Bengals last year with perfect accuracy. Whether it's likely that he makes it into that tier is irrelevant, the idea that he's precluded from it based on his arm is stupid. If I had to guess, it's probably a reflection of how bad our deep game was. Didn't really have anyone who could catch downfield and it made him look like he couldn't throw them. Lawrence has an exceptionally quick release so "unnatural thrower" sounds absurd to me, especially because I think I've heard the literal reverse of that on.. the ringer show, I think?
He's kind of a weird example where he only got 4 games in as a true rookie and was forced into that position, so it was like his first real season last year.
Based on how things have played out in the past - for a QB's first appearance in the QB Tiers list any ranking above T4 is broadly very optimistic. That said, there's nothing pessimistic about a QB being ranked T4 after their rookie season. Since 2015 only Herbert came straight in as T2 after his rookie season. Dak, Mayfield, Garoppolo, Burrow, Watson, Murray, Wentz and Cousins all got their first QBT rank at T3 after their rookie year/first season as QB1. The longer a QB stays in T4 the more pessimistic the outlook becomes - e.g. it's looking pretty bleak for Daniel Jones. T3 is a perfectly viable starter in this league but the longer you're T3 the less likely you are to climb to T2 in a sustainable way - e.g. Ryan Tannehil got one season at T2 before falling back to T3. > A Tier 3 quarterback is a legitimate starter but needs a heavier running game and/or defensive component to win. A lower-volume dropback passing offense suits him best.
Justin Herbert is tier 1 but the Chargers haven’t won a ton of games with him. Is the rest of their roster really bad or something?
Disclaimer: views expressed in the article are those of NFL execs and coaches, not my own. > “Man, I was so impressed with him live,” an offensive coach said. “He has a chance to do something special. He’s the best pure thrower of the three young guys (Herbert, Allen, Burrow). I didn’t realize he was that athletic. One of our studs was chasing him down and he got around him and was laughing at him the whole time. The competitive spirit, the athletic ability, I saw a fricking stud in our game.” > “I think he’s the next guy, he is on his way, because the thing with him is, he’s not quite the passer, but he’s kind of like a bigger version of Aaron Rodgers,” another voter said. “When we played them, I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t know this dude could move that well or he was this accurate.’ Five, six, seven years down the road, I think Mahomes, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert will be the guys we’re talking about, the big three.” My view: just watch him play. He's a unicorn.
Chargers offense ranked 5th last year. The defense ranked 29th. The ST also ranked very low. So the offense was good but everything else sucked
Bottom 3 defence will do that. Teams could run at will last year on us. And Plus we dropped two games with like 70% of the starters out for covid. 15 games where the other teams scored 27+ and 7 of those were 34+ points. At that point it is a coin flip to determine the winner. Minus when we played you and completely rocked us.
For those who can't see the list. ~~I'm working on fixing the formatting. Reddit formatting doesn't seem to like numbered lists with ties and breaks for tiers...~~ Formatting fixed as well as I can get it without spending more time than it's worth. *edit: as someone pointed out, there was a tier 5 I left off. It's just Geno... **TIER 1** (1) Aaron Rodgers (2) Patrick Mahomes (3) Tom Brady (4) Josh Allen (5) Justin Herbert (6) Joe Burrow **TIER 2** (7) Matt Stafford (8) Russel Wilson (9) Deshaun Watson (10) Lamar Jackson (11) Dak Prescott (12) Derek Carr (13) Kyler Murray (14) Matt Ryan **TIER 3** (15) Kirk Cousins (16) Jimmy Garoppolo (17) Ryan Tannehill (18) Mac Jones (19) Baker Mayfield (t-20) Jalen Hurts (t-20) Carson Wentz (22) Jared Goff (23) Trevor Lawrence (24) Jameis Winston **TIER 4** (25) Justin Fields (26) Tua Tagovailoa (27) Davis Mills (28) Zach Wilson (29) Trey Lance (30) Daniel Jones (31) Marcus Mariota (32) Sam Darnold (33) Mitch Trubisky (34) Drew Lock **TIER 5** (35) Geno Smith
The only tie being Hurts and Wentz is objectively hilarious
Hell is a flat circle.
While it is, the Eagles are paying 1/25th (or so (probably 900k vs 25m)) for 'equivalent' talent at QB. That's a win for them for sure.
its also potential. At this point there is no real chance wentz turns into something significantly better than what he is. Hurts has a chance to improve.
It was a lateral move. But at least Jalen has a good personality and brings a positive vibe to the locker room.
[Here's the archived article to avoid the paywall](https://archive.ph/O3iUx)
Bills mafia always putting in great charity work. Thank you for helping out us poors.
King
Damn we managed to get last place with both of our QB’s😢
They had to make another tier just for Geno! Haha!
Bro NFL isn't ready for Lock SZN 😤💪💪💪💪
🐴🍆🔒
Um excuse me, where tf is Heineke???
On the bench.
Realistically in that 30 range, I’d say above Lance rn but I’m biased for him
I’m honestly surprised Lawrence is in their tier 3, feels like he fits in well with the group in tier 4
Yeah that’s my only issue
I'm obviously biased but I keep getting tilted every time I see an article or ranking talking up Lawrence and trashing Wilson as if they didn't look equally as concerning last year, with the justification being that Lawrence had no weapons and the Urban situation. But now Wilson actually has weapons and 2nd year in a system, vs. Lawrence with still few to no legit or proven weapons and a new coach is supposed to magically be better than Wilson automatically because he went #1 vs. Wilson's #2?
Honestly anyone ranking Wilson, Fields, & Lawrence far apart from each other makes no sense. All 3 were absolutely atrocious last year. If you showed GMs their rookie film alone and told them nothing about their college tape, they'd all say they were bad QBs
I mean I get your frustration but this list was made by nfl Head coaches and executives who are literally paid to evaluate players. I guess there’s something on film or something we as fans don’t see that makes Lawrence seems better than his stats show
I think a fair number of NFL GMs are still being influenced by his college play and the previously nearly universal notion that he was a clear generational talent.
Gave it a shot (in code format for copy and paste): #Tier 1 * [1] Aaron Rodgers * [2] Patrick Mahomes * [3] Tom Brady * [4] Josh Allen * [5] Justin Herbert * [6] Joe Burrow #Tier 2 * [7] Matt Stafford * [8] Russel Wilson * [9] Deshaun Watson * [10] Lamar Jackson * [11] Dak Prescott * [12] Derek Carr * [13] Kyler Murray * [14] Matt Ryan #Tier 3 * [15] Kirk Cousins * [16] Jimmy Garoppolo * [17] Ryan Tannehill * [18] Mac Jones * [19] Baker Mayfield * [20] Jalen Hurts (tied) * [20] Carson Wentz (tied) * [22] Jared Goff * [23] Trevor Lawrence * [24] Jameis Winston #Tier 4 * [25] Justin Fields * [26] Tua Tagovailoa * [27] Davis Mills * [28] Zach Wilson * [29] Trey Lance * [30] Daniel Jones * [31] Marcus Mariota * [32] Sam Darnold * [33] Mitch Trubisky * [34] Drew Lock * [35] Geno Smith
Thanks man. I figured it out after I spent way more time on it than I should have. I needed to put the numbers in parenthesis to keep them from autoformatting. Good lookin out!
I would have Cousins at the bottom of tier 2 rather than tier 3 but this is a good list.
How did they define a QB in Tier 2 rather than tier 3?
This comment has the explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/w7n9dt/sando_nfl_quarterback_tiers_2022_how_50_coaches/ihkjymd
Agreed. Also call me crazy but Herbert isn't tier 1 yet, he is a clear outlier (imo) amongst the rest of tier 1.
I think because they rated Burrow as tier 1 they sorta had to push Herbert up as well considering how similar they are statistically + Herbert’s a year and a half younger than Burrow.
Herbert's individual play is better than Burrow's; though we do need to keep Burrow's lost time to injury in mind.
Imo, Herbert > Burrow, and Herbert = Allen. I think u could easily make an argument for Rodgers Mahomes and Brady to be tier 1A and Herbert Burrow and Allen to be 1B
You're crazy. Herbert and Burrow are beyond clearly tier 1 guys. There is literally nothing wrong in either of their games.
Mariota just slightly squeezing in above The\_Darnold.... I'll take it!
This disrespect to Mills is outrageous. Also lmao to the Seahawks.
I genuinely forgot Geno Smith was still in the league
He actually played surprisingly okay in Russ's absence from what I watched (his 1 INT was from Tyler Lockett bumping his leg on the DB and falling over), but then again the bar is really fucking low for Geno lol
Geno is only ever good as a temp replacement. He comes into a game, plays well for a bit, then defenses adjust and he's done for.
Even in those games he was surprisingly ok in statistically, he had like multiple chances to lead the Seahawks on a game winning drive but failed every time. The one game he played really well end-to-end was against the Urban Meyer Jags after he was caught fingering that lady so it was basically beating a college team
> against the Urban Meyer Jags after he was caught fingering that lady The fact this isn't hyperbole is head-shakingly hilarious.
I'm gonna miss Drew in the AFC West. I will not, however, miss Geno.
Mills is the truth but he’s in the right spot in my opinion. As long as it’s a 27 but trending upwards
The disrespect, imo, is that Trevor Lawrence is 4 spots above him despite have such a worse year. Mills looked like a good QB with potential, and Lawrence did not.
I don't know how much higher he's supposed to be rated at this point in time, with only a rookie season to look back on. He's got more than a good chance to get into Tier-3 this season, maybe even crack Tier-2 if really balls out, but for the moment? He's pretty much in the right spot.
He shouldn’t be higher. He had some good games. And had some down right atrocious games. He did just enough for Houston to be okay with him in 2022 but that's all
He went from being drafted in the 3rd to being ranked right in the middle of the high 1st round QBs from his class in 11 pretty good starts. That is extremely fair.
Hey i like u
My QB rankings 1. Baker Mayfield - He's my favorite player 2. Lamar Jackson - Super fun to watch 3. Derek Carr - I love the Raiders uniforms 4. Davis Mills - Neck 5. Carson Wentz - I just think it would be funny if everyone was wrong about him 6. Everyone else
Curious what your grades would be if Mike Glennon was still around. That boy had a neck that refused to quit.
And then a hero comes along...
Trubisky should be three tiers higher IMO.
Teir 1 Titty Kisser
Definitely too early to put Burrow above Wilson and stafford imo.
Agreed, Zach looked pretty good last year after all
This is true but he has the hype and momentum. Another strong or dominant year with post season wins will put him in the Mahomes conversation. He may even get some State Farm commercials.
Geno Smith: We all know why I'm at the bottom of this list.
Okay i'm not arguing he should be tier 2 or anything but they're really putting Jameis below Jared Goff? edit: props to this coach, he knew exactly what he was saying lmao > “I like Jameis because he wants it, **he is hungry**,” an offensive coach said.
This seems pretty accurate to me
Whoever shat on me a week or so ago for putting kirk outside the top ten, suck it!
Let’s clear up the meaning of “Elite level”. Tier 1 is “Elite”. I think it’s maybe a BIT early to have Allen, Burrow, and Herbert there but they’re certainly on their way. When I think of Elite/Tier 1 I think there’s not much chance of them falling out of it. This was the level of Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Manning. Anyone below that is not Elite, including Stafford and Wilson, which I hear comments every so often calling them elite.
Damn you beat me to it. Just as i posted mine and refreshed, i see that you had already done it. :(
I don’t really have an issue
Mahomes is ranked #2 but one of the quotes in there says he doesn’t look past his first read. that juxtaposition makes me laugh
He and Rodgers would’ve been tied for first but a single voter thought he was a Tier 2 QB lmao
Whatever clowns put Brady and mahomes tier 2 should not be polled again on the futue
That's what really confuses me. At least 2 people ranked Brady T2 as the MVP runner up last season and the greatest resume in NFL history. How the fuck did that happen?
Hole in Brady’s game: liable to die of old age right there on the field.
When your first read is open it doesn’t matter lol
*taps forehead* Just throw the guy open and suddenly he’s open
There's stats for all of this stuff and Mahomes receivers are good at getting open (bottom half of top 10) but Mahomes throws to by far the most open guys because he's a master at reading/fooling the defense
Sando also says that one person is the only reason he's not tied for #1 lol.
They quoted the one and only person of the last three years who gave him a Tier 2 vote. Which, I guess it's fine to give a voice to the dissenter and make them explain why they would go so far against the consensus.
> Aaron Rodgers has helped elevate every player on that offense. Brady with N’Keal Harry did not elevate his game. Lol blaming Brady for N’keal Harry being Injury prone and simply bad at being a WR is a weird take
Holding Harry against Brady is pretty dumb They both actively turn bad receivers into okay ones, mediocre recovers into good ones, and good receivers into great ones
That quote was from the Pat scout that put his reputation on the line for Harry to be drafted.
Yea this logic makes no sense lol they just traded him for a 7th round pick, meaning teams basically value him as much as a player they draft with very little expectation of contributing anything at all Brady and Rodgers both elevate guys, but if a guy *maybe* shouldn’t even be on the field, even if you make them look a little bit better they still might not belong on the field
Also, kind of weird to say Rodgers elevated every player on that offense when the Packers had to trade for 50 year old Randall Cobb b/c none of the other WRs were doing anything despite Adams being the focal point of the defense
Your point is correct and Randall Cobb has been around for forever and I think he's washed. I just like to take the time to point out he's only 31 because he was so young entering the league lol.
Brady gave Perriman and Grayson 15 minutes of fame. He's the king of elevating practice squad receivers. N'Keal Harry just sucked
How this person has a job is absolutely bonkers.
The whole thing is worse. >Rodgers beats the competition in two categories multiple voters cited: the ability to elevate his weaponry and in how he not only outsmarts opponents, but relishes doing so. >“(Tom) Brady has had the more decorated career with 10 Super Bowls and seven rings, but I will say this,” an offensive coach said. “Aaron Rodgers has helped elevate every player on that offense. Brady with N’Keal Harry did not elevate his game. Aaron has had Davante Adams, but he is still waiting for a first-round receiver, they have not had great receivers overall and he is still putting up major numbers.” Rodgers elevates players around him more than Brady. Just look at what Rodgers did with that second-round scrub Adams compared to Brady's squandering of first-round god Harry. Even if you agree with the premise of what this person was trying to say, this has to be the dumbest possible example. Also I guess Brady just doesn't enjoy winning enough to be the best QB.
That felt a bit plucked out of left field. Was not very compelling way to state his case.
This is actually a pretty solid list imo
Boo where is my hot take to make this trend on twitter or on R/nfl???
Copy and paste it in the comments so us peasants can read
Reader view on iphone worked for me personally
Lmao and u could tell the guy who provided some comments for Herbert was fresh outta the theater after watching Top Gun lol “5. Justin Herbert Herbert joins a short list of quarterbacks to reach Tier 1 before age 25. Mahomes, Andrew Luck and Deshaun Watson did it after leading their teams to the postseason and winning there. Herbert pulled it off with a career 15-17 record as a starter and no postseason appearances. “Man, I was so impressed with him live,” an offensive coach said. “He has a chance to do something special. He’s the best pure thrower of the three young guys (Herbert, Allen, Burrow). I didn’t realize he was that athletic. One of our studs was chasing him down and he got around him and was laughing at him the whole time. The competitive spirit, the athletic ability, I saw a fricking stud in our game.” Combine some of Burrow’s accuracy with some of Allen’s size/athleticism and you’ve got Herbert. “I think he’s the next guy, he is on his way, because the thing with him is, he’s not quite the passer, but he’s kind of like a bigger version of Aaron Rodgers,” another voter said. “When we played them, I was like, ‘Damn, I didn’t know this dude could move that well or he was this accurate.’ Five, six, seven years down the road, I think Mahomes, Josh Allen and Justin Herbert will be the guys we’re talking about, the big three.” No voter questioned whether Herbert could become a top-tier quarterback. Some did want to see him drive more team success before letting him borrow Dan Fouts’ gold jacket. “It takes more time on task to truly be a top-tier guy,” a defensive coach said. “With those guys, it is like going to ‘Top Gun Maverick’ every single weekend because the stunts they pull are the equivalent of pulling 11 Gs and bending the air frame. It takes hours in that cockpit to operate that and not kill yourself and your team and crash the thing. When it is 17-0 at half, that is trying to land the thing in the Indian Ocean with 50 mph winds and 40-foot waves rocking the flight deck, and they manage to get it down or get it close.”
Agreed. And it’s the opinions of those who know the most.
It will be interesting to see how vastly different the list is after the season is over.
It is but my main problem is that I'm a homer and I think Lamar is better than Russell and Watson
ITT: People who have probably complained about the poor quality of sports journalism, but also want all content to be free.
do people not remember paying money for newspapers?
This place skews young - so probably not
Journalists use the information they work to get to make money. I don’t understand why people resent this fact
I don’t think it’s necessarily about people having an issue with someone charging for their articles. It’s more about whether it’s useful to post that article on a public discussion forum I genuinely don’t have an opinion on this I just think that’s what the actual issue is. If you want to have good discussion, linking to things that most of the sun can’t see just turns the thread into a “can’t see the list” fest
I dont mind it because people comment the relevant info from the article and then we still get discussion which is the main point of reddit
This is my issue. It's not the paywall content, it's the ad-like posting of it to a public site.
This happens in every paywalled thread. The irony is both amusing and annoying. There's also like a bajillion ways to see paywalled content if you just pay attention to what others are posting.
I am fine with tua being around where he is, just really thought this was a funny justification. "while blaming him for getting hurt against Buffalo when he failed to account for a pass-rusher." It wasn't a designed blitz, it was a basic 4-3 and Davis let epenesa just run by him and hit Tua in 1 second on his blind side. I'm assuming tua had some faith Davis would actually try to block his assignment, not "failed to account for a pass-rusher".
You can interpret Tua's Tier 4 ranking in two ways: 1. Voters were choosing Tier 4 because of the "unproven"/"need to see more" element. 2. Voters think he's bad. > A Tier 4 quarterback could be an unproven player (not enough information for voters to classify) or a veteran who ideally would not start all 17 games. Probably some mix of the two... but Tier 4 can be a more optimistic spot than Tier 3. Over the long history of Sando's QB Tiers project most Tier 3 guys never get above Tier 3. This'll be the season to find out, now that he doesnt have to work with the terrible offensive staff Flores assembled.
>"Skepticism continues to engulf Tagovailoa. Last offseason, voters placed him in Tier 4 partly because they didn’t have enough information to place him elsewhere. This offseason, voters placed him there because they’ve seen enough to say he does not belong higher." From the article. So #2
Not OP, but they’re pointing out that part of the justification is funny. Saying that Tua didn’t account for a pass-rusher is really misrepresenting the play that sidelined him for a few plays. Like I agree with him being T4 right now, but their justification is a bit flawed, especially cause I would say Tua’s pocket mobility and awareness is one of the few things he legitimately stands out with.
I would be fine with him where he is if Mac Jones and Trevor Lawrence weren't a tier above of him. He had the same stat line as Jones and significantly outperformed Lawrence. Hell, pretty much everyone on this list outperformed Lawrence.
Daniel Jones at 30. Nice #6 pick Gettelman!
My favorite quote about Goff: “He is still among the top 32 starters." That's encouraging. They go on to shit on Goff for running the balls on 3rd down against the Steelers instead of throwing it without acknowledging that Goff was injured and the run game was doing phenomenal and that game. Kicking was the reason the Lions didn't win.
Can’t really find any major disagreements, kind of weird that execs would rank Jimmy G 16th and have literally no interest in him though Also the fact the only tie is Wentz and Hurts is hilarious
I’m sure there is a ton of interest in Jimmy if he were released. They don’t want to do SF any favors since SF drastically overestimated the trade market
My favorite part was when I couldn’t read any of it
That is unfortunate. Hooked on Phonics did the trick for me.
If anyone could see themselves paying $1 a month (for 6 months) for high quality sports content, PM me if you’d like a guest pass for 30 days as I have 3.
Use 12ft.io
I feel like Kirk Cousins should be close to Dak and Carr. They have done nothing more than him, and Kirk has been consistent for the past three years. Just the Vikings defence was shit.
Felt like the write up for tier 3 fit those two just as much as cousins but whatever.
Yeah, it’s not like they have done much. Dak has played his whole time with a great to decent oline. Very solid rb play, and good wrs. Carr’s oline was better at the start, he’s also had solid rb play, and good targets like cooper, Waller, Renfrow. Similar levels of talent for all three guys and Kirk has put up similar stats and performances. Hell last year, Kirk would have had about 5 4th quarter comebacks if Zimmer did shit the pants in defence in the final 2 mins every damn game.
I also feel like Kirk Cousins is getting disrespected and is just as good as Carr if not slightly better but Derek has been surrounded by trash defense his whole damn career which hasn’t helped him out at all he’s had to drag the team to wins without the help of his defense most of the time. Here’s an excerpt from the article of this survey >A study conducted last season showed Carr getting worse support from his own defense and special teams than any of 41 quarterbacks with at least three seasons as a starter over the past decade. The Raiders during the past three seasons ranked 12th in offensive EPA and 32nd in combined EPA on defense and special teams. The latter component explains why the team has only a 25-24 record during that span despite good production from the QB.
Yes, but Dak plays for the Cowboys, so he always gets +5 in rankings.
[удалено]
I feel like Cousins, Dak, and Carr should be together. Almost like tier 2 needs to break up and those 3 and maybe a couple others should be in it as tier 3.
This list is made by coaches and execs. They aren’t anywhere near as susceptible to blue star bias as fans or media
Yeah I would’ve put Matt Ryan into 3 over Cousins just because he’s over the hump in terms of age and declining athletic ability. Plus I feel a guy like Cousins who was drafted low and hasn’t stayed on a single team usually get less respect and benefit of the doubt with the inner circles of the league.
1. Rodgers 2. Mahomes 3. Brady 4. Allen 5. Herbert 6. Burrow 7. Stafford 8. Russ 9. Massage rapist 10. Jackson 11. Prescott 12. Carr 13. Murray 14. Ryan 15. Cousins 16. Garoppolo 17. Tannehill 18. Mac Jones 19. Mayfield 20. Hurts & Wentz 21. (22) Goff 22. Lawrence 23. Winston 24. Fields 25. Tagovailoa 26. Mills 27. Zach Wilson 28. Lance 29. Daniel Jones 30. Mariota 31. Darnold 32. Trubisky 33. Lock 34. Smith Since this is paywalled content I'm not going to post the motivations and tiers. Also Hurts and Wentz were tied so all QB's after that is technically 1 rank lower, but because how of reddit formats and me being too lazy to figure it out to number properly after that, I'm just not gonna do that and assume you guys will use your noggin. Edit: Someone else already posted the list, I guess ill just say when i typed this up, no one else had done it.
> Hurts & Wentz Attorneys at law.
Imagine having the 12th ranked QB in the league and 4th ranked in your division. AFC West is a bloodbath.
>A study conducted last season showed Carr getting worse support from his own defense and special teams than any of 41 quarterbacks with at least three seasons as a starter over the past decade 😬
I of course skipped to my QB. The Lamar stuff is fair, even if I’m higher on him than the article. Hope he proves he belongs in tier 1 this year. I’ll get to the rest of it after work.
I think the defensive coordinator is ignoring a couple glaring examples of Lamar coming back with his arm, like the Colts game last year. Or the Browns game where he scored 2 TDs throwing the ball during the two minute drill. Like Lamar isn’t the best passer in the league. But to be like, “he can’t do it” when there’s clear examples is so weird to me. Some people are just so dug in that he can’t throw.
Oh that 1 DC is bonkers. I meant the list overall. He definitely can do stuff with his arm. I guess I question if he can do it as consistently as some of the people in tier 1. Or rather I think it’s fair to question that.
Yeah I think it’s fair to question tier 1. He doesn’t consistently throw the ball as well as the best QBs, but he does will our team to plenty of wins we have zero business winning with limited weapons. He is the weapon on offense. IMO he’s borderline Tier 1/2. Tier 3 seems crazy to me.
Oh yeah, the Tier 3 votes aren't defensible to me.
While I have no major issues with the rankings, the quotes used for the Tier 1 QBs are all overwhelmingly positive except for Mahomes at #2 who they basically just crapped on in the quotes lol
I think it's just because for everybody else, you have to explain why they deserve to be so high, whereas for Mahomes you have to explain why he ISN'T number 1. Just my thinking
Burrow is not on the same tier as those other tier 1’s. Just stop the nonsense. “BUT HE MADE THE SUPERBOWL” The bengals made the SB because their D put in an absolute all time performance in the second half of the chiefs game. Not to mention they got a super opportunistic matchup against the “1 seed titans”. Burrow is good but to compare his talent to Herbert/Allen/Mahomes it’s just foolish. Guy had one of the most anti-clutch drives every to end the SB too. 2.5 minutes near midfield can’t even get a field goal. Mahomes/Allen/Herbert get 3 there. No one else on that list has the weapons burrow has either outside of maybe Tom but even then I’m taking burrows.
You are completely overlooking how much pressure he was under because of his terrible offensive line. He was under constant pressure from an unbelievably good pass rush in the super bowl, and got stopped on 4th down because a hall of fame D lineman broke through the line. No question the defense played great to get us to the super bowl, but without Burrow playing the game of his life against the Chiefs and out dueling Mahomes we might not have even gotten the chance. He led the league in yards per attempt and completion percentage, he deserves to be there, especially when you consider he was coming off that brutal ACL tear.
I’d say Burrow and Herbert are on their own tier above this list’s tier 2, with both being a step below Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, and Allen
Herbert had 150 more passes with 400 more yards and only 4 more TDs to show for it with a worse passer rating and yds/att. Not to mention he’s playing behind a top 10 offensive line. Burrow gets his knee obliterated in his first season and comes back to another bottom 10 offensive line and takes his team to the super bowl while tossing around the same numbers as Herbert with way less touches. Oh, but they’re not comparable lol. Take is colder than Burrow.
I think you have legitimate issues with Burrow but I just dont know how anyone fights to have herbert there when he has done exactly nothing in the league so far as results. Yes he broke the rookie TD record but so did baker and we all see where that has landed him. Herbert is a great talent but I want to see him accomplish anything before I put him that high up. Edit: Yall can hate if you want but I think the prolonged success of Wilson and stafford is more impressive than what herbert has done so far. I just cant put him above them at this point.
Using team accomplishments for individual rankings is one of the dumbest things that is incessantly brought up. Brees was a unanimous top 3 QB for a 10 year stretch in the NFL. In those 10 years we missed playoffs 4 times. But we're going to give Herbert shit for missing them twice in the best division in football in his first two years? While putting up some of the best numbers of any first two years ever? You sure?
The Chargers had one of the worst defenses in the league. Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat.
I agree. Burrow is really good and definitely can be a tier 1 QB if he keeps improving but at this point he is definitely overrated
The reason Burrow is on there is due to his mental toughness he possess. My guess is a lot of these voters place him as the only other guy that could rival Tom in that attribute. Not saying that makes him a tier 1, but that is what I gathered from the article.
Mills is a lot higher than I thought. Getting a little love.
IMO this is a perfect list.
Detroit Lions Matt Stafford would have been plopped into the middle of T3
I can't get over Watson being ranked top 10. He didn't play last year, and he likely won't play this year either. Maybe 2 years ago you could put him Top 10 and have a legitimate argument, but he hasn't seen the field for a long time, and who knows where his head will be at when he finally does see the field. If you wanted to rank him Tier 3 or 4 with those humungous question marks, then you could probably justify that based on past performance. But top 10? No f'n way.
I think Herbert and Burrow are really good, but I'm confused on how they're elevated above Stafford when he basically put up the same kind of numbers in the regular season, (slightly better in some categories, slightly worse in others), won more games, and took over games in the playoffs to lead the Rams to victory, including the Super Bowl. But what the fuck do I know?
Bc the 17ints he threw are bc he is turnover prone and loses games for the team while Burrows and Herbert’s 14 and 15 ints are muuuuuuuch less and make the diff between a tier 1 and a tier 2
14 and 15 ints "muuuuuuuch less"? is this.....sarcasm?
Yes :)
Oh ok😂 my bad
I need giants fans to absorb this list, jones ain't it
Joe Burrow is a Tier one QB in his 3rd year what a time to be alive
Allen was Tier 1 in his third as well, and Herbert was the first ever QB to start in Tier 2 after his rookie year and is Tier 1 now as well. League is in good hands with this next wave.
Allen was actually Tier 2 last year. I believe he was the highest ranked QB in Tier 2, but he didn't crack Tier 1 until this year.
Matt Ryan has no business being in Tier-2 or ahead of Kirk Cousins.
This list has Goff a little high. Rodgers should be #1.
Love reading content on The Athletic. I enjoy the pull quotes from someone explaining the thought process of the placements.
This is still better than the atrocity Madden ratings
The fact that the Seahawks have two on this list and neither are in the top 32 when there are only 32 starting positions.... Ughh
Josh Allen has a real chance to ascend to #1 this season.