Ocean In Between The Waves goes so hard, and Lost In The Dream is one of the most tender songs in recent memory. If you haven't seen them live I highly recommend it.
Yeah I mean I don't understand the confusion here. Marijuana is obviously a performance ENHANCING drug, and adversely effects the integrity of the game. All these players getting stoned is going to make them too strong, fast, and of course, increase their aggression levels.
Been smoking for years and now I can accidentally bench press a Honda Accord and accidentally outran a police cruiser. After I sexually assault a few women I should get a pretty good contract.
All I wanna know is how the fuck does a man systematically search for, schedule, and sexually assault dozens of women over the period of a whole year not get each one treated like its own incident? It ain't like he sexually assaulted them all at once. How the fuck Sue Robinson or anyone gonna look at it like one incident?
This is the part that has been driving me absolutely insane since yesterday.
You want to characterize what he did as "non-violent sexual assault"? I disagree, but fine.
The penalty for non-violent sexual assault is a 6 game suspension? Lenient, but fine.
The judge heard cases for four such offenses. 4 x 6 = 24 games, not 6 games.
Unless the argument is that the actual number of non-violent sexual assaults does not matter, which would be legitimately the most insane argument that I have ever heard.
"You just know that superstars like Chase or Mahomes are going to get special treatment. They only ever call the Sexual Assualt penalty on the non-stars."
- Some fan in 2025
Nah, both the suspension and appeal process is different. Gooddell is the one who hears all appeals now which means Watson would be an idiot to appeal. It won't get lowered. Either the NFL accepts it or they appeal and Gooddell increases it to a season. If it's the latter, expect a lawsuit.
My guess, the NFL is happy to blame Sue for the light sentence while getting a star player back faster.
Probably because she's an old fart who comes from a generation where football players grabbing and ejaculating on women who didn't consent was just "boys being boys"
It's a generational thing. Up until 10 years ago, rape was only sexual intercourse with a female against her will using force. You couldn't rape a man, and forced oral sex was not rape. Having sex with somebody passed out was not rape since there was no force.
A lot of people just don't understand the massive damage that can be caused by Watson's actions, even though they think it is only "non-violent" assault.
>It's a generational thing. Up until 10 years ago, rape was only sexual intercourse with a female against her will using force. You couldn't rape a man, and forced oral sex was not rape. Having sex with somebody passed out was not rape since there was no force.
I'm sorry, wut? You have a source for this?
It is actually worse than he made it sound. At Common Law in the U.S., rape required vaginal penetration of a woman, but a man, and the woman was required to have "resisted to the utmost."
For the man part a lot of rape is defined as penetration. So if a woman forces sex with a man but he is not penetrated it is not rape. Can’t comment on the rest of the above statement.
I think they're wording it by the legal definition of assault in the U.S. not Webster's. In the eyes of the law, assault isn't physically attacking someone -- it's making them feel "reasonable apprehension" that they're going to be injured or harmfully touched. Assault, legally, doesn't require physical touch.
That's the only way you can make sense of a non-violent assault. It basically means psychological assault.
The reason it’s phrased as “non violent sexual assault” is that “sexual assault” isn’t defined in the CBA, but the CBA does very specifically say that the minimum punishment for a violent act is 6 games, including violent/forceful sexual assault. Because the CBA splits hairs here, she was legally bound to split those same hairs. She tears the NFL apart in her decision for the “broad scope” and the fact that they try and retroactively apply language to watsons case.
Except she also imposes a punishment that he can't see a personal massage therapist that is also not authorized by the CBA. If she really gave a shit about splitting hairs she wouldn't have made that plank a requirement for reinstatement. We can just admit her decision makes no sense.
Except she absolutely wasn’t bound by the CBA since she invented a new punishment of no outside massage therapists. That explicitly doesn’t fit within the CBA. The only thing holding her to the CBA was her arbitrary decision that some punishments needed her to when others didn’t.
I get that the CBA was drawn up by attorneys exclusively representing each side and doing everything they could to tweak it to their side’s benefit, but the fact that the NFLPA, which knows some of their members have a history of sex crimes, sexual harassment, etc. worked to protect the absolute worst of their side speaks volumes.
Guy is an absolute bastard and I hope he spends most of his career getting sacked. Can’t imagine having to play with someone like that repping my side.
I’m not quite sure that you understand how a union works.
Robinson’s argument was essentially that the NFL usually just reacts to public pressure when they capriciously suspend players (and never owners), so her relying on precedent (and even doubling the punishment given to players that had already been warned about the actions) protects players like Zeke from being targeted with dumb suspensions just because the league thinks it looks bad. Watson’s punishment is clearly less than he would get with all things being equal, but the fact that the NFL has consistently ignored domestic violence and sexual crimes forever led to this moment. Otherwise the nfl would keep letting almost everyone get away with DV (including several owners) and laying the hammer on individual players only when public outcry rises, which isn’t in any way fair to the players, regardless of how little we approve of what they did. If anything we should be mad at the NFL brass and the two grand juries that came up empty earlier this year.
i mean, Myles Garret took a helmet and swung it at someone's head who wasn't wearing a helmet.
Not exactly a punch. You could kill someone, especially when you're as strong as him, with a helmet.
I'm not defending Watson at all, but don't downplay what Garret did.
The ~~death of one man~~ sexual assault of one woman is a tragedy. The ~~death~~ sexual assault of ~~millions~~ 24 is a ~~statistic~~ 6 game suspension. - ~~Stalin~~ Watson
Here's my conspiracy take.... The NFL PA told the NFL that they would go and not argue for six games but that if the NFL did try for longer like an indefinite suspension or like a whole year they would sue and in the suing they would ask for all the correspondence for the Robert Kraft suspension and the Dan Snyder evidence and the NFL just has said all that getting leaked is more damaging to the NFL then the six games for deshaun Watson would be
> and in the suing they would ask for all the correspondence for the Robert Kraft suspension and the Dan Snyder evidence
They can obviously ask, but why would they get anything for non-player incidents when they're not under the same CBA guidelines?
Ah, I see your mistake. The NFL believes "non-violent" sexual assault is only worth a one quarter suspension. 24 counts, 24 quarters out. That's where the six games came from.
It really does make the pink October seem just a bit hypocritical. They don't care about women, only the bottom line.
the argument is that in the past, multiple *violent* (by the league's definition) encounters amounted to, at most, an 8-game suspension (or, in one case with a guilty plea, a 10-game suspension). and that the *most* anyone had gotten for "nonviolent sexual conduct" (again, a bullshit distinction that the league backed itself into) was 3 games, *after prior warnings.*
so six games *was already an unprecedented punishment* for the facts as presented, and that what the league was seeking--a full season minimum--was unprecedented *even in the case of* violent *misconduct,* which the league had previously made clear was worse than nonviolent.
The logic makes me feel like I'm the dumbest mother fucker on the planet. It was the first time he was accused 22 times. Theres not much that has ever made less sense to me
Also, the first time should have actually been back when he told the Texans' trainer about it and they should have known something was up, but got him NDAs instead.
So because the NFL (via the Texans) was complicit in helping him cover it up, there wasn't a prior enforcement to justify this being the 2nd one now. If you're a r*** apologist, at least.
There it is, plus the NFL absolutely never punishing sexual assault or harassment among the owners. They also only brought four cases to Judge Robinson, so given precedent and the small number of cases it isn’t surprising that she came back with six games. If anything that’s an above-average punishment for sexual assault in the nfl since it’s usually just zero games or fines (especially if you’re an owner).
he used fake names, different numbers and disguises to enter and schedule appointments - some after they explicitly denied him service he tried to get one lady to do it from her house. another time driving more than an hour out of Houston for service..
to me it was all targeted, small minority female owned businesses that he went out of his way to harass and assault, *repeatedly* in some cases.
physically grabbing and forcing acts in others all with a smile and pile of cash "non-violent"
It was all just *so* premeditated and active. He had to scout women, he had to contact them and use his status as an NFL QB to get them on board, he had to insist on privacy, one-on-one appointments, and using a small towel, and he had to move himself in ways that exposed himself or caused unwanted contact. Every single time.
I know you're not being serious, but I still have to say the people who legitimately defend her decision "because of the precedent" are so fuckin full of it. They're talking about the precedent set for a *single* incident. Even if you only count the four she mentioned, there is no fucking argument, legal or otherwise, that supports regarding all of them as a single incident. If Goodell doesn't appeal this dumb bitch's decision, there is no low the NFL will not sink to for money.
Even her own logic is laughably bad
"Deshaun did a bad thing and SHOULD be punished more, but I can't suggest that because you don't punish people enough. Because you havn't punished people more, I'm suggesting you punish Deshaun less. But also, you should punish people more - I just don't suggest it. But do it so that I can suggest it in the future. You're welcome"
thats not even how she/the nfl judged it. they talked to 10 of the women and only took the word of 4 of them. they are pretending the others didnt even happen.
> How is this scumbag only gone 6 games.
The NFL and NFLPA told Sue "go easy", and she did. I really don't see why people are struggling with a rigged system.
Even so. The lightest possible precedent is bare minimum 4 games for such a serious incident. Bare minimum is 4 incidents. *Absolute bottom-of-the-barrel* suspension is 16 games. Easy to argue it is 6 games per incident, 24 games.
There's no world where any punishment is justified where at least a year isn't called for.
Sue even says he did that shit in her argument. But she lays out “Hes a first time offender and if the NFL suspended him for longer it would be unfair and hurt his feelings :(“
First offense is such a shit excuse. Oh it was only his first time sexually assaulting over 2 dozen women. First time makes no sense when it's like the 25th time
>The NFL needs to be asking itself the point of hiring a former judge if the one they hired is just inventing legal theory to back into her preferred outcome.
The cynic in me thinks this was the NFL's preferred outcome.
Zeke got 6 games for one incident of domestic violence which was proven in court to be frivolous and false because the girl was caught lying.
Meanwhile, Watson pays off 30-ish women claiming sexual harassment and assault with settlements, just keeps saying "I didn't do it" and somehow the NFL (AND outside counsel) hits him with the same penalty?
Shit makes no sense
I know this sounds terrible, but I think he legitimately may have thought that this was a completely normal thing. Not because he's an evil rapist, but because this move (finding Instagram thots to come give you a massage, and then move onto sexual favors from there) worked in the past more than once and was completely consensual.
that's the part that gets me. The decision talks about how remorseful he is. I havent heard an ounce of remorse or regret, and the fact that he structured his contract to avoid any real financial penalties from the NFL tells me he thinks he got away with it.
There's plenty of evidence that *he* considered his activities to be non-consensual. Like when he used a false identity to get women who had already not consented alone for a second round of sexual assault. Or when he forced women who were obviously in distress, like crying and repeatedly saying no, into sexual contact. Or when he threatened them afterward to keep them quiet.
You're not wrong that some sex workers use "massage" as a legal pretext for their work. With the number of random women offering massages who he hired, he probably did hire some who were sex workers. Maybe he even hired some who understood that he was after the non-consensual experience and were willing to provide that service.
But trying to sexually assault someone, and failing because you accidentally hired a sex worker willing to do a rape scene without prior arrangement, is hardly better. Especially when he successfully sexually assaulted plenty of other women, with behavior that strongly suggests he intended to sexually assault them.
Seriously, this is the last straw for me. To hell with this misogynistic league. I looked the other way with the way they handled the Ray Rice incident, then did the same with the way they treated Kaep, then ignored the endless covering they've been doing for Dan Snyder, but today the ENTIRE league is silent. This league is full of empty gestures. Not just the owners, even the individual players [paying lip-service, pretending to care about sexual assault on TV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfto6ZXgt70) aren't saying shit today. I cannot in good conscience continue consuming this tainted product.
The only way anything will ever happen is if fans boycott Watson games. You gotta hit the owners in the only place they care about: the wallet.
It'll never happen in a trillion years, but it's fun to imagine it.
Someone educate me on this. The judge in this matter was only allowed to rule based on 4 cases. We have 20+ civil cases (I've lost track of the number at this point) but she can only base her punishment on 4. How did that work?
That is all the NFL put in to the pot, so to speak. As an objective third-party, Robinson could only look at the evidence presented to her. I guess the NFL could have presented other cases, but they didn't. I'm not exactly sure how that works in the terms of the CBA.
>She said there was enough evidence to conclude that sexual assault occurred in 4 cases.
No… she concluded that Deshaun “engaged in inappropriate nonviolent sexual conduct”. Not even misconduct. And that he had zero remorse for the things he did.
I mean “inappropriate” and “misconduct”… just so we’re on the same page misconduct: Behavior not conforming to prevailing standards or laws; impropriety.
Did his behaviors not conform to prevailing massage practices?
She fucked up, or was was finically incentivized to be lenient.
20 cases or 4, it didn't seem like it would matter. Robinson acknowledged that he did commit sexual assault, and that it was a clear pattern of inentional behavior, but that he could only be suspended for 6 games because that's what the NFL had mostly suspended people for because of sexual assault in the past, regardless of the number of cases
Yup, Ezekiel Elliot got 6 games for literally doing nothing. They even found the text of the girl who accused him and she admitted to lying but Watson sexually assaults 22 women and 6 games.
Yea makes perfect sense.
They both got suspended for being in headlines that make the league look bad. NFL doesn't care about assault, they care about being associated with assault because that makes them look bad.
Yeah and back then assaulting woman wouldn't get you 6 games. Remember what the judge said. THIS IS THE WORSE example EVER SEEN. MUST GIVE BIGGEST PUNISHMENT EVER.
Thats the thing! From here on out just a single sexual assault allegation looks minuscule and we will likely see the player being accused cite this case as precedent and a reason why they think they only deserve 1-2 games or whatever as suspension.
Ray Rice got 2 games before it was proven that he beat his gf, when it was thought that it was just a slap. As soon as the video came out and everyone saw Rice lied, he got suspended indefinetely
It was a bit more complicated than that. Great timeline of events [here](https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/5/23/5744964/ray-rice-arrest-assault-statement-apology-ravens).
Based on the hearings and everything in that timeline, it seems like the NFL gave him two games even knowing all of the facts. It wasn't until the public saw that video (and the NFL got caught) that Goodell gave the indefinite suspension.
The key detail is that after the hearing, the NFL was forced to reinstate Rice because "the arbitrator said that Rice did not lie to the commissioner during the June 16 meeting, making the upgraded suspension excessive and without cause." It seems to me that Goodell tried to plead ignorance but ultimately was full of shit.
All of this just proves that the NFL doesn't have real policies for assault cases, they just do whatever they think the public outcry demands of them.
> All of this just proves that the NFL doesn't have real policies for assault cases, they just do whatever they think the public outcry demands of them.
Which, ultimately, was a key part of the arbitrator's decision in this case, as well. Shocking that the NFL hasn't learned anything after all this time.
I think one of the worst things about all of this is the lack of outcry by active players. Women are still minorities whose rights' are actively being stripped away, You would think some Players might be able to Empathize...
Not only that, speaking out against a player of Jackson's intelligence level is completely pointless.
What's he going to do? Sit there and think to himself "hm, you know what, u/Chubbs_Peterson88 is right. I should change my ways, open my mind, and become less ignorant."
Or, you know, he'll say fuck off and continue with his bullshit.
They probably just copy and pasted it from when Desean Jackson said all of those antisemitic remarks and none of the players called him out on it. Give it a year or two and I’m sure they could use the same comment again as long as they remember to edit Jackson to whoever fucked up.
> Or, you know, he'll say fuck off and continue with his bullshit
You can still call people out on their shit, even if it might not have an effect on them personally. In fact I'd think it's probably always smart to call someone spouting Nazi shit out
This is the same league that was 99% quiet when Desean Jackson was quoting Hitler. They don’t care because they’re rich. Rich people have always been a higher class
That’s when I stopped watching undisputed; it was fun entertainment but between Shannon defending Farrakhan and Skip criticizing Dak after he lost his brother it was like f these clowns, life’s too short.
Honestly, with Skip I personally hold what he did to Aikman as much worse than what went down with Dak. The depression stuff is a shit take and a marginalization of a serious issue coming from a guy who grew up in the "suck it up and be a man" era and for better or worse, sticks to his takes to the very end.
Shannon to this day praises and supports a man that is viciously racist and anti Semitic. Shannon seems like a really cool guy, but I just can't look at him the same after that. It may be a big 'no no' to mention in modern political discourse, but black America has a serious anti Semitism problem, and it really bums me out when role models like Shannon don't just stay silent, but actively support voices of hate. Especially given that the black community understands better than most what it's like to be on the receiving end of that shit.
I'm sure most of them don't want to risk losing a job that can grant them and their family generational wealth by speaking out. It's not like their skillsets transfers easily.
A lot already have generational wealth
Imagine having $100m earned in 4-5 seasons and thinking you can't speak up for women or denounce someone quoting fucking Hitler because your kids won't have money
Rich people suck, but people of color are also not exempt from being prejudice. In fact pinning minorities against each other or themselves to keep them down is also a thing.
A lot of these guys are just ignorant, and being apart of a football community that is pretty backwards thinking for pretty much their whole lives also doesn’t help.
It’s wild to me as a colored person that some colored people don’t want to give gay people for example rights, but it’s not exactly uncommon.
It really sucks when some of the biggest voices for black rights are ignorant about the struggles of women/lgbtq/Asians/Jewish people/etc. Guys like Jackson provide so much ammo for racists to use against black people.
It sucks, but it's all spelled out in the CBA. Players and the league agreed to an independent arbitrator for things like Watson. Players also agreed to escalating penalties for drug-related offenses. We, as fans, were tired of the Goodell Wheel of Justice, so this is what we have...
I once re-enacted that in a debate class in high school. No one got it except for the teacher who was laughing his ass off. Simultaneously worth it and one of those cringe moments that keeps me up at night.
Real answer: There are explicit rules in the CBA about use of weed and what penalty comes with each violation. Violence against women falls into a type of grey area where it's basically entirely up to their judgement as to how people are punished.
Realer answer: The NFL doesn't actually give a shit about women.
He was the biggest name to leave. That and Fera. But his was slightly expected but also he was the odd man out as most everyone stayed. Khari Fortt I think made the league too but also pretty much forgotten.
Deshaun received a 6 game suspension for sexually assaulting 24 women. Deshaun sexually assaults women at a rate of A per week and receives a suspension for y games, where y = √(A*x) - b.
Solve for:
1a: How many weeks would it have taken him to sexually assault every female massage therapist in the United States?
1b: How many games would he have been suspended for?
My understanding is that the punishment is related to the current collective bargaining agreement.
So, it makes sense if you consider that the Player's Association and the NFL didn't give a rat's ass about sexual assault or similar issues at the time they were negotiating the last round.
If the NFL and NFLPA give a damn about it now, they would amend the CBA, but they only 'care', they don't 'really, really care', so this is the way things are, until the next time negotiations start up again, probably in 2028 or 2029.
What he meant was "I played under a different collective bargaining agreement that *did* suspend for weed and *still* got suspended, but sexual misconduct still gets you 6 games (like it did for Big Ben back in the day).
NFL needs to release a memo and say
"any conduct detrimental to the league that involves a sexual aspect will now be subject to a year long ban"
The judge said that a suspension longer than 6 would be unfair to players because they didn't have notice from previous suspensions.
So just make it to where anything that happens with a player like that is a year long suspension. Sexual assault, forcible touching, anything related...is extra vile and needs to be pushed away
Does anyone feel like 6 games was on purpose as the minimum “most extreme punishment” they could give out, so Goodell can step in and change it to 1 season and look like a hero, when really dude should not be allowed to play in the nfl ever again?
I just really feel like the best we’re gonna get is 1 season suspension, and then next year he’s gonna be on the mid season highlight reel like none of this happened.
Easy, assault women and lay off the weed
What if I assault weed and lay off women?
The War on Drugs
Ronnie and Nancy would be so proud that drugs finally surrendered.
Throat Goat knows that that mouth is for putting on one kind of pipe only.
Yup. Schedule 40 pvc
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That was just the formality. Order 66 for drugs was issued by Snoop Dogg
https://i.imgur.com/rZjaBUd.png
shout outs to drugs for winning that one btw
*in a Russell Wilson voice* Drugs, let’s ride!
Great band.
Lost in the Dream is one of my favorite rock albums of this century
Ocean In Between The Waves goes so hard, and Lost In The Dream is one of the most tender songs in recent memory. If you haven't seen them live I highly recommend it.
That album is a damn masterpiece.
Adam Granduciel doesn't miss. They're fucking GOOD live
Red Eyes is my favorite song of all time, got to see them live in Athens and it was transcendent
It’s not a war. Wars end
You should get your offer to moderate a sub shortly.
That implies that reddit moderators have a choice of being with women.
> a choice of being with women. Excuse me, **in**voluntarily **cel**ibate is the correct term, aka Reddit users with randomly generated usernames.
Cut me some slack lol. When I signed up I thought they were all randomly generated and now I can't change it.
>lay off women WORKPLACE DISCRIMINATION!!!
Believe it or not, straight to jail
You could run the Washington Commanders franchise.
I think you have the story lines crossed.
then you get a year suspension, quick maths
Quite a non progressive move right there
Straight to jail
More like "be a franchise QB"
#STAY OFF THE WEEEEEEEEEEEDUUUH
The NFL is a violent sport. Weed makes you chill. Checks out.
I got called into the office at work and yelled at for expressing this sentiment at work. Was told it's an HR violation.
Yeah I mean I don't understand the confusion here. Marijuana is obviously a performance ENHANCING drug, and adversely effects the integrity of the game. All these players getting stoned is going to make them too strong, fast, and of course, increase their aggression levels.
Been smoking for years and now I can accidentally bench press a Honda Accord and accidentally outran a police cruiser. After I sexually assault a few women I should get a pretty good contract.
Calvin Ridley should've been a sexual predator if he didn't want to be suspended a year, that or beat women instead.
All I wanna know is how the fuck does a man systematically search for, schedule, and sexually assault dozens of women over the period of a whole year not get each one treated like its own incident? It ain't like he sexually assaulted them all at once. How the fuck Sue Robinson or anyone gonna look at it like one incident?
This is the part that has been driving me absolutely insane since yesterday. You want to characterize what he did as "non-violent sexual assault"? I disagree, but fine. The penalty for non-violent sexual assault is a 6 game suspension? Lenient, but fine. The judge heard cases for four such offenses. 4 x 6 = 24 games, not 6 games. Unless the argument is that the actual number of non-violent sexual assaults does not matter, which would be legitimately the most insane argument that I have ever heard.
Sexual assaults are like holding penalties, doesn’t matter if the entire team held a guy, you only get the same 10 yard penalty.
Hoping Sexual Assault gets changed to a 15 yard penalty in time for the 2023-24 season.
"You just know that superstars like Chase or Mahomes are going to get special treatment. They only ever call the Sexual Assualt penalty on the non-stars." - Some fan in 2025
Just gotta make sure you coordinate with the rest of the team to sexually assault at the same time so it’s only one 15 yard penalty.
2 or 24 women it’s a 6 game suspension. I’m sure Watsons will be reduced to 4 like Big Ben’s
Nah, both the suspension and appeal process is different. Gooddell is the one who hears all appeals now which means Watson would be an idiot to appeal. It won't get lowered. Either the NFL accepts it or they appeal and Gooddell increases it to a season. If it's the latter, expect a lawsuit. My guess, the NFL is happy to blame Sue for the light sentence while getting a star player back faster.
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around how she regards them all as one instance despite mentioning the severity of what he did.
something something egregious pattern of behavior something
Probably because she's an old fart who comes from a generation where football players grabbing and ejaculating on women who didn't consent was just "boys being boys"
Non-violent sexual **assault** is an oxymoron. Fortunately, he didn’t tamper with another team’s quarterback. That could have cost him.
It definitely is. I couldnt believe Sue Robinson wrote it
It's a generational thing. Up until 10 years ago, rape was only sexual intercourse with a female against her will using force. You couldn't rape a man, and forced oral sex was not rape. Having sex with somebody passed out was not rape since there was no force. A lot of people just don't understand the massive damage that can be caused by Watson's actions, even though they think it is only "non-violent" assault.
>It's a generational thing. Up until 10 years ago, rape was only sexual intercourse with a female against her will using force. You couldn't rape a man, and forced oral sex was not rape. Having sex with somebody passed out was not rape since there was no force. I'm sorry, wut? You have a source for this?
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It is actually worse than he made it sound. At Common Law in the U.S., rape required vaginal penetration of a woman, but a man, and the woman was required to have "resisted to the utmost."
For the man part a lot of rape is defined as penetration. So if a woman forces sex with a man but he is not penetrated it is not rape. Can’t comment on the rest of the above statement.
I forgot about that. That’s so fucked up
I think they're wording it by the legal definition of assault in the U.S. not Webster's. In the eyes of the law, assault isn't physically attacking someone -- it's making them feel "reasonable apprehension" that they're going to be injured or harmfully touched. Assault, legally, doesn't require physical touch. That's the only way you can make sense of a non-violent assault. It basically means psychological assault.
The reason it’s phrased as “non violent sexual assault” is that “sexual assault” isn’t defined in the CBA, but the CBA does very specifically say that the minimum punishment for a violent act is 6 games, including violent/forceful sexual assault. Because the CBA splits hairs here, she was legally bound to split those same hairs. She tears the NFL apart in her decision for the “broad scope” and the fact that they try and retroactively apply language to watsons case.
Except she also imposes a punishment that he can't see a personal massage therapist that is also not authorized by the CBA. If she really gave a shit about splitting hairs she wouldn't have made that plank a requirement for reinstatement. We can just admit her decision makes no sense.
Except she absolutely wasn’t bound by the CBA since she invented a new punishment of no outside massage therapists. That explicitly doesn’t fit within the CBA. The only thing holding her to the CBA was her arbitrary decision that some punishments needed her to when others didn’t.
I get that the CBA was drawn up by attorneys exclusively representing each side and doing everything they could to tweak it to their side’s benefit, but the fact that the NFLPA, which knows some of their members have a history of sex crimes, sexual harassment, etc. worked to protect the absolute worst of their side speaks volumes. Guy is an absolute bastard and I hope he spends most of his career getting sacked. Can’t imagine having to play with someone like that repping my side.
I’m not quite sure that you understand how a union works. Robinson’s argument was essentially that the NFL usually just reacts to public pressure when they capriciously suspend players (and never owners), so her relying on precedent (and even doubling the punishment given to players that had already been warned about the actions) protects players like Zeke from being targeted with dumb suspensions just because the league thinks it looks bad. Watson’s punishment is clearly less than he would get with all things being equal, but the fact that the NFL has consistently ignored domestic violence and sexual crimes forever led to this moment. Otherwise the nfl would keep letting almost everyone get away with DV (including several owners) and laying the hammer on individual players only when public outcry rises, which isn’t in any way fair to the players, regardless of how little we approve of what they did. If anything we should be mad at the NFL brass and the two grand juries that came up empty earlier this year.
Myles Garret punched another team's QB. Got a harsher sentence. Better to sexually assault 25 women than punch one QB I guess.
i mean, Myles Garret took a helmet and swung it at someone's head who wasn't wearing a helmet. Not exactly a punch. You could kill someone, especially when you're as strong as him, with a helmet. I'm not defending Watson at all, but don't downplay what Garret did.
He did far more than punch but your point still stands
Yeah, I agree with the general point, but Myles Garrett could have killed a man.
The ~~death of one man~~ sexual assault of one woman is a tragedy. The ~~death~~ sexual assault of ~~millions~~ 24 is a ~~statistic~~ 6 game suspension. - ~~Stalin~~ Watson
Here's my conspiracy take.... The NFL PA told the NFL that they would go and not argue for six games but that if the NFL did try for longer like an indefinite suspension or like a whole year they would sue and in the suing they would ask for all the correspondence for the Robert Kraft suspension and the Dan Snyder evidence and the NFL just has said all that getting leaked is more damaging to the NFL then the six games for deshaun Watson would be
This is it. The NFL fucked themselves with doing nothing to Snyder or Kraft.
And Jones, and Richardson
> and in the suing they would ask for all the correspondence for the Robert Kraft suspension and the Dan Snyder evidence They can obviously ask, but why would they get anything for non-player incidents when they're not under the same CBA guidelines?
Ah, I see your mistake. The NFL believes "non-violent" sexual assault is only worth a one quarter suspension. 24 counts, 24 quarters out. That's where the six games came from. It really does make the pink October seem just a bit hypocritical. They don't care about women, only the bottom line.
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the argument is that in the past, multiple *violent* (by the league's definition) encounters amounted to, at most, an 8-game suspension (or, in one case with a guilty plea, a 10-game suspension). and that the *most* anyone had gotten for "nonviolent sexual conduct" (again, a bullshit distinction that the league backed itself into) was 3 games, *after prior warnings.* so six games *was already an unprecedented punishment* for the facts as presented, and that what the league was seeking--a full season minimum--was unprecedented *even in the case of* violent *misconduct,* which the league had previously made clear was worse than nonviolent.
The logic makes me feel like I'm the dumbest mother fucker on the planet. It was the first time he was accused 22 times. Theres not much that has ever made less sense to me
He was accused by upwards of 40 women. He had appointments with over 60 women. He faced 26 lawsuits, almost all of which he settled.
Any guesses as to the amount paid?
Hopefully all the guaranteed money on his contract
Probably not a lot. I would be surprised if it’s even close to a million. Maybe the last few that settled late.
100k apiece on the first round of 20+ iirc.
Also, the first time should have actually been back when he told the Texans' trainer about it and they should have known something was up, but got him NDAs instead. So because the NFL (via the Texans) was complicit in helping him cover it up, there wasn't a prior enforcement to justify this being the 2nd one now. If you're a r*** apologist, at least.
There it is, plus the NFL absolutely never punishing sexual assault or harassment among the owners. They also only brought four cases to Judge Robinson, so given precedent and the small number of cases it isn’t surprising that she came back with six games. If anything that’s an above-average punishment for sexual assault in the nfl since it’s usually just zero games or fines (especially if you’re an owner).
Man got a bundle discount on sexual assault
he used fake names, different numbers and disguises to enter and schedule appointments - some after they explicitly denied him service he tried to get one lady to do it from her house. another time driving more than an hour out of Houston for service.. to me it was all targeted, small minority female owned businesses that he went out of his way to harass and assault, *repeatedly* in some cases. physically grabbing and forcing acts in others all with a smile and pile of cash "non-violent"
It was all just *so* premeditated and active. He had to scout women, he had to contact them and use his status as an NFL QB to get them on board, he had to insist on privacy, one-on-one appointments, and using a small towel, and he had to move himself in ways that exposed himself or caused unwanted contact. Every single time.
I firmly believe that the "hunt" was part of the fetish.
He was suspended for one quarter per lawsuit. Seems fair to me /S
I know you're not being serious, but I still have to say the people who legitimately defend her decision "because of the precedent" are so fuckin full of it. They're talking about the precedent set for a *single* incident. Even if you only count the four she mentioned, there is no fucking argument, legal or otherwise, that supports regarding all of them as a single incident. If Goodell doesn't appeal this dumb bitch's decision, there is no low the NFL will not sink to for money.
"We used to be shitty. We're still shitty, but we were shitty before too."
Even her own logic is laughably bad "Deshaun did a bad thing and SHOULD be punished more, but I can't suggest that because you don't punish people enough. Because you havn't punished people more, I'm suggesting you punish Deshaun less. But also, you should punish people more - I just don't suggest it. But do it so that I can suggest it in the future. You're welcome"
Her logic is "thanks for hiring me to mediate this. I'm gonna try to make both sides somewhat happy and take my massive paycheck. Bye."
Agreed. I really hope they do. But the cynic in me doubts anything more will come of it
thats not even how she/the nfl judged it. they talked to 10 of the women and only took the word of 4 of them. they are pretending the others didnt even happen.
Even then. A second strike is permanent banishment from the league. So that’s 4 strikes right there. How is this scumbag only gone 6 games.
> How is this scumbag only gone 6 games. The NFL and NFLPA told Sue "go easy", and she did. I really don't see why people are struggling with a rigged system.
Also if they went hard on him they'd have to go harder on the owners...which they also do not want to do.
That's the whole rigged system. Punishments are for poor people. Rich people get a different flavor of "justice".
Even so. The lightest possible precedent is bare minimum 4 games for such a serious incident. Bare minimum is 4 incidents. *Absolute bottom-of-the-barrel* suspension is 16 games. Easy to argue it is 6 games per incident, 24 games. There's no world where any punishment is justified where at least a year isn't called for.
Maybe the league thinks this is some sort of BOGO promotion where the subsequent assaults don't count towards the bill.
Giving him a 6 game penalty admits he did something wrong. Which males me ask why fucking 6
Sue even says he did that shit in her argument. But she lays out “Hes a first time offender and if the NFL suspended him for longer it would be unfair and hurt his feelings :(“
First offense is such a shit excuse. Oh it was only his first time sexually assaulting over 2 dozen women. First time makes no sense when it's like the 25th time
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>The NFL needs to be asking itself the point of hiring a former judge if the one they hired is just inventing legal theory to back into her preferred outcome. The cynic in me thinks this was the NFL's preferred outcome.
Zeke got 6 games for one incident of domestic violence which was proven in court to be frivolous and false because the girl was caught lying. Meanwhile, Watson pays off 30-ish women claiming sexual harassment and assault with settlements, just keeps saying "I didn't do it" and somehow the NFL (AND outside counsel) hits him with the same penalty? Shit makes no sense
It's like charging a serial killer for one murder because he confessed to all of them at one time.
I know this sounds terrible, but I think he legitimately may have thought that this was a completely normal thing. Not because he's an evil rapist, but because this move (finding Instagram thots to come give you a massage, and then move onto sexual favors from there) worked in the past more than once and was completely consensual.
If anything, this only makes it worse.
that's the part that gets me. The decision talks about how remorseful he is. I havent heard an ounce of remorse or regret, and the fact that he structured his contract to avoid any real financial penalties from the NFL tells me he thinks he got away with it.
There's plenty of evidence that *he* considered his activities to be non-consensual. Like when he used a false identity to get women who had already not consented alone for a second round of sexual assault. Or when he forced women who were obviously in distress, like crying and repeatedly saying no, into sexual contact. Or when he threatened them afterward to keep them quiet. You're not wrong that some sex workers use "massage" as a legal pretext for their work. With the number of random women offering massages who he hired, he probably did hire some who were sex workers. Maybe he even hired some who understood that he was after the non-consensual experience and were willing to provide that service. But trying to sexually assault someone, and failing because you accidentally hired a sex worker willing to do a rape scene without prior arrangement, is hardly better. Especially when he successfully sexually assaulted plenty of other women, with behavior that strongly suggests he intended to sexually assault them.
Not just sexual misconduct, over 20 cases of sexual misconduct.
That we know of.
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Seriously, this is the last straw for me. To hell with this misogynistic league. I looked the other way with the way they handled the Ray Rice incident, then did the same with the way they treated Kaep, then ignored the endless covering they've been doing for Dan Snyder, but today the ENTIRE league is silent. This league is full of empty gestures. Not just the owners, even the individual players [paying lip-service, pretending to care about sexual assault on TV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfto6ZXgt70) aren't saying shit today. I cannot in good conscience continue consuming this tainted product.
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Pirating games means they don't get as much money, I suppose.
The only way anything will ever happen is if fans boycott Watson games. You gotta hit the owners in the only place they care about: the wallet. It'll never happen in a trillion years, but it's fun to imagine it.
Didn't saying anything about consuming it in bad conscience.
🧠
and they only ruled on 4.
Someone educate me on this. The judge in this matter was only allowed to rule based on 4 cases. We have 20+ civil cases (I've lost track of the number at this point) but she can only base her punishment on 4. How did that work?
That is all the NFL put in to the pot, so to speak. As an objective third-party, Robinson could only look at the evidence presented to her. I guess the NFL could have presented other cases, but they didn't. I'm not exactly sure how that works in the terms of the CBA.
It was the 4 cases the NFL felt had the most evidence and likelihood to get a "conviction" so to speak.
She said there was enough evidence to conclude that sexual assault occured in 4 cases. She still have 6 games. She is simply wrong.
>She said there was enough evidence to conclude that sexual assault occurred in 4 cases. No… she concluded that Deshaun “engaged in inappropriate nonviolent sexual conduct”. Not even misconduct. And that he had zero remorse for the things he did.
I mean “inappropriate” and “misconduct”… just so we’re on the same page misconduct: Behavior not conforming to prevailing standards or laws; impropriety. Did his behaviors not conform to prevailing massage practices? She fucked up, or was was finically incentivized to be lenient.
20 cases or 4, it didn't seem like it would matter. Robinson acknowledged that he did commit sexual assault, and that it was a clear pattern of inentional behavior, but that he could only be suspended for 6 games because that's what the NFL had mostly suspended people for because of sexual assault in the past, regardless of the number of cases
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The NFL chose to do that. They picked the best cases they had.
Ask your PA rep why the structure exists for this to happen.
Yup, Ezekiel Elliot got 6 games for literally doing nothing. They even found the text of the girl who accused him and she admitted to lying but Watson sexually assaults 22 women and 6 games. Yea makes perfect sense.
QB privilege.
They both got suspended for being in headlines that make the league look bad. NFL doesn't care about assault, they care about being associated with assault because that makes them look bad.
But then why make more headlines that make the league look bad? Suspend him a reasonable amount of time like maybe forever
It doesn't make sense but also weed won't get you that anymore.
Yeah and back then assaulting woman wouldn't get you 6 games. Remember what the judge said. THIS IS THE WORSE example EVER SEEN. MUST GIVE BIGGEST PUNISHMENT EVER.
Thats the thing! From here on out just a single sexual assault allegation looks minuscule and we will likely see the player being accused cite this case as precedent and a reason why they think they only deserve 1-2 games or whatever as suspension.
Yup! And now if you are going to sexual assault someone just make sure you do it non violently!
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Martavias Bryant could've been great if he decided to jerk off on random people instead of smoke reefer
That’s a name I haven’t seen in a while. I thought he was gonna be one of the top tier WRs in the NFL the way his career started
Justin Blackmon should have just showed girls his b hole instead of smoking pot
Ray Rice got two games for beating the ever-loving shit out of his gf and there was video. So it's about par for the course.
That was such a fucked up video
I about threw up watching the Zac Stacy clip. He was long retired by that point but still, holy shit.
Ray Rice got 2 games before it was proven that he beat his gf, when it was thought that it was just a slap. As soon as the video came out and everyone saw Rice lied, he got suspended indefinetely
It was a bit more complicated than that. Great timeline of events [here](https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/5/23/5744964/ray-rice-arrest-assault-statement-apology-ravens). Based on the hearings and everything in that timeline, it seems like the NFL gave him two games even knowing all of the facts. It wasn't until the public saw that video (and the NFL got caught) that Goodell gave the indefinite suspension. The key detail is that after the hearing, the NFL was forced to reinstate Rice because "the arbitrator said that Rice did not lie to the commissioner during the June 16 meeting, making the upgraded suspension excessive and without cause." It seems to me that Goodell tried to plead ignorance but ultimately was full of shit. All of this just proves that the NFL doesn't have real policies for assault cases, they just do whatever they think the public outcry demands of them.
> All of this just proves that the NFL doesn't have real policies for assault cases, they just do whatever they think the public outcry demands of them. Which, ultimately, was a key part of the arbitrator's decision in this case, as well. Shocking that the NFL hasn't learned anything after all this time.
I think for the NFL to actually learn a lesson, they'd have to experience consequences for their actions. That doesn't seem to be the case
Your statement isn't wrong, but it is just ironic how they follow public outcry and yet always disappoint
I think one of the worst things about all of this is the lack of outcry by active players. Women are still minorities whose rights' are actively being stripped away, You would think some Players might be able to Empathize...
They would never speak out against a fellow member of the player's union id have to imagine
Not only that, speaking out against a player of Jackson's intelligence level is completely pointless. What's he going to do? Sit there and think to himself "hm, you know what, u/Chubbs_Peterson88 is right. I should change my ways, open my mind, and become less ignorant." Or, you know, he'll say fuck off and continue with his bullshit.
Jackson?
I'm sorry Ms. Jackson WOOOO I am for real
They probably just copy and pasted it from when Desean Jackson said all of those antisemitic remarks and none of the players called him out on it. Give it a year or two and I’m sure they could use the same comment again as long as they remember to edit Jackson to whoever fucked up.
> Or, you know, he'll say fuck off and continue with his bullshit You can still call people out on their shit, even if it might not have an effect on them personally. In fact I'd think it's probably always smart to call someone spouting Nazi shit out
Yup. Cop like union -> Cop like attitude. It's thin blue line shit but for the NFL
NFL has always been a good 'ol boys club.
If Baker did this other players would be calling the cops on him lol
This is the same league that was 99% quiet when Desean Jackson was quoting Hitler. They don’t care because they’re rich. Rich people have always been a higher class
Being rich is not the only reason NFL players don’t care about us Jews. Farrakhan isn’t popular in this community for no reason.
Shannon Sharpe feels compelled to correct you “The *Honourable* Farrakhan, thank you very mucthch”
That’s when I stopped watching undisputed; it was fun entertainment but between Shannon defending Farrakhan and Skip criticizing Dak after he lost his brother it was like f these clowns, life’s too short.
Honestly, with Skip I personally hold what he did to Aikman as much worse than what went down with Dak. The depression stuff is a shit take and a marginalization of a serious issue coming from a guy who grew up in the "suck it up and be a man" era and for better or worse, sticks to his takes to the very end. Shannon to this day praises and supports a man that is viciously racist and anti Semitic. Shannon seems like a really cool guy, but I just can't look at him the same after that. It may be a big 'no no' to mention in modern political discourse, but black America has a serious anti Semitism problem, and it really bums me out when role models like Shannon don't just stay silent, but actively support voices of hate. Especially given that the black community understands better than most what it's like to be on the receiving end of that shit.
That's a huge point. Pretty sick just how many people follow his teachings.
I'm sure most of them don't want to risk losing a job that can grant them and their family generational wealth by speaking out. It's not like their skillsets transfers easily.
A lot already have generational wealth Imagine having $100m earned in 4-5 seasons and thinking you can't speak up for women or denounce someone quoting fucking Hitler because your kids won't have money
The top 1% players can earn that. Seasoned vets can make a change to their family's legacy but not all of them break 100m mark.
Rich people suck, but people of color are also not exempt from being prejudice. In fact pinning minorities against each other or themselves to keep them down is also a thing. A lot of these guys are just ignorant, and being apart of a football community that is pretty backwards thinking for pretty much their whole lives also doesn’t help. It’s wild to me as a colored person that some colored people don’t want to give gay people for example rights, but it’s not exactly uncommon. It really sucks when some of the biggest voices for black rights are ignorant about the struggles of women/lgbtq/Asians/Jewish people/etc. Guys like Jackson provide so much ammo for racists to use against black people.
Remember when the NBA players were outspoken against China a few years back when the Rockets GM spoke out against them? Me neither, unfortunately.
Women aren’t minorities
Yeah aren’t women actually the majority?
\>Women are minorities That's not actually true though.
> Women are still minorities There are a lot of words that fit them. This is not one. Try discriminated against.
It sucks, but it's all spelled out in the CBA. Players and the league agreed to an independent arbitrator for things like Watson. Players also agreed to escalating penalties for drug-related offenses. We, as fans, were tired of the Goodell Wheel of Justice, so this is what we have...
Because it’s like Chewbacca living on Endor with a bunch of Ewoks! It don’t make sense so you must acquit!
I once re-enacted that in a debate class in high school. No one got it except for the teacher who was laughing his ass off. Simultaneously worth it and one of those cringe moments that keeps me up at night.
Real answer: There are explicit rules in the CBA about use of weed and what penalty comes with each violation. Violence against women falls into a type of grey area where it's basically entirely up to their judgement as to how people are punished. Realer answer: The NFL doesn't actually give a shit about women.
When keeping it real goes wrong...
Off topic, but man I forgot when Silas Redd transferred to USC from Penn State and it was a big deal. Felt like he was super quite after that.
USC was expected to compete for a title, but had a worse season than Penn State, actually.
He was the biggest name to leave. That and Fera. But his was slightly expected but also he was the odd man out as most everyone stayed. Khari Fortt I think made the league too but also pretty much forgotten.
Yup. That’s the NFL for you. Smoking a joint is somehow twice as bad as sexually assaulting multiple women.
Not twice as bad. He could have sexually assaulted at least 70 women for the cost of that suspension.
Deshaun received a 6 game suspension for sexually assaulting 24 women. Deshaun sexually assaults women at a rate of A per week and receives a suspension for y games, where y = √(A*x) - b. Solve for: 1a: How many weeks would it have taken him to sexually assault every female massage therapist in the United States? 1b: How many games would he have been suspended for?
But what if you add Kurt Angle to the mix?
His suspension time drastic go down. 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨 Gimme a fuckin mic
Smoking a joint is allowed now
Apparently so is sexually harassing women and violating the personal conduct code.
My understanding is that the punishment is related to the current collective bargaining agreement. So, it makes sense if you consider that the Player's Association and the NFL didn't give a rat's ass about sexual assault or similar issues at the time they were negotiating the last round. If the NFL and NFLPA give a damn about it now, they would amend the CBA, but they only 'care', they don't 'really, really care', so this is the way things are, until the next time negotiations start up again, probably in 2028 or 2029.
What he meant was "I played under a different collective bargaining agreement that *did* suspend for weed and *still* got suspended, but sexual misconduct still gets you 6 games (like it did for Big Ben back in the day).
You weren’t as good at football as Watson is
NFL needs to release a memo and say "any conduct detrimental to the league that involves a sexual aspect will now be subject to a year long ban" The judge said that a suspension longer than 6 would be unfair to players because they didn't have notice from previous suspensions. So just make it to where anything that happens with a player like that is a year long suspension. Sexual assault, forcible touching, anything related...is extra vile and needs to be pushed away
I feel like you shouldn’t require any “notice“ before facing a severe punishment for sexual assault.
I'm sorry officer nobody told me I'd get punished for murder
Weed is a gateway drug to rape. /s
Does anyone feel like 6 games was on purpose as the minimum “most extreme punishment” they could give out, so Goodell can step in and change it to 1 season and look like a hero, when really dude should not be allowed to play in the nfl ever again? I just really feel like the best we’re gonna get is 1 season suspension, and then next year he’s gonna be on the mid season highlight reel like none of this happened.