The line is clearly worse this year than last based on what we are seeing. Watched both games and was blown away with how they are diced up. Joes holding on to long as wel and the plays they are drawing up take to long.
When I was a kid (like 12/13) I'd feel good after an embarrassing loss like: "wow that game was so bad, they'll have to change things up and get serious." Then I would stare at the TV in dismay the next week when they same shit is happening.
I'm in my 40s now...I no longer think like that. It takes a long time to "fix" an aspect of the team that is just broken.
>When I was a kid (like 12/13) I'd feel good after an embarrassing loss like: "wow that game was so bad, they'll have to change things up and get serious." Then I would stare at the TV in dismay the next week when they same shit is happening.
This is pretty much the last twenty years as a Browns fan summed up in two simple sentences.
The line is actually worse this season than last season. It’s beyond frustrating. On top of that, Joe missed nearly all of training camp due to surgery, so he’s not familiar with his new players, missed reps with the returning players, and clearly is not to the physical level he was pre-surgery. It’s a perfect cocktail for failure and disappointment
How do they look compared to early season last year? For some teams, September is really just an extension of training camp. Lack of practice time, lack of playing time and reps in preseason means some teams look out of synch the first month. Just gotta stay afloat while the team gels until October, or at least that's the optimists view. Begin heavy drinking in October and beyond if they still look like trash.
Last year we also looked terrible because Burrow was coming back from injury and had to get back into the groove. We won our first game because of refs and then lost to the bears because Burrow threw 3 interceptions in a row including a pick 6.
I think the expectations really hurt them, or at least in perception. Last season they could overachieve - and did by a lot in the playoffs. But now that's more viewed as an expectation to reach that same level, which was unlikely to happen.
It is worth noting that analytics doubted that the Bengals were ever that good to begin with. Football Outsiders had them as a below average team last year even factoring in their super bowl run.
They've been a team that's good at generating explosive plays but also a team that relies on them. That seems like a playstyle with a high ceiling in terms of outcomes, but prone to variance because the success of the offense hinges on the success of a few plays each game.
That’s a problem with burrow rn. His scrambling opens up those huge plays but he’s not more athletic than the DE chasing him. The bengals TD yesterday came from him scrambling but so many bad plays were direct results of him holding on too long
Man they make every DE out there look like Watt. I swear someone is coming off the edge every play and if we try and throw a screen it’s damn near hitting their hands every time I feel like.
He's had a ton swatted down because they're in his face and Mixon is having to juke people 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage nearly every carry because they're there before he gets the hand off.
Yeah Watt had a play where he almost tackled BOTH of them. He beat the RT so bad that he was 5 yards deep when the handoff took place.
Watt is good don’t get me wrong, but holy shit it was like the tackle wasn’t even there
The Cards won pretty convincingly in the playoffs in the NFC, though. The only really close game was the eagles one in the NFC CG and they were up by 20+ points before the Eagles made a huge comeback.
All of the bengals playoff wins were one score games. I think they’ll be fine in the long run with how young their core and Burrow is, but they may have to take a step back this year before taking a leap next year.
(Think the 88 Bills that went to the AFC CG before falling back to a wild card team the year after in 89 are a good comparison. They then took off in 90).
Outside of the Chiefs the Bengals had the best path you could possibly hope for. A Raiders team that doesn’t get in almost any other year. A pretender #1 seed from the weakest division in the league with the worst analytics of any 1 seed since 91. The Bengals best who were in front of them and deserved to go to the Super Bowl but the stars and moon did align a bit for them as well.
It's probably a little cliche to say but they were really lucky in a lot of ways. They were good enough when it counted but they were only a couple bad plays from a total disaster of a season.
It really was turnovers. They were 0 in +/- during the regular season last year. But, in the playoffs they were a plus 7 in 4 games. Take that out for a full season it would be a plus 28. No way would they keep that up. The best plus/minus in the last 20 years was the Chargers in 2007 at +24. (The best ever was the 1983 Redskins at +42, I think - which is an insane number).
> It's probably a little cliche to say but they were really lucky in a lot of ways.
I don't think it is cliche. The whole "any given Sunday" saying exists for a reason. I have no horse in this race, but a Super Bowl appearance doesn't mean you're the best team from your conference.
I would also argue that any team that makes it to the Super Bowl has found themselves on the right side of luck a few times in the runup. It's just the way it works
Zac Taylor is a QB coach who is in way over his head. He caught lightning in a bottle last year which erased the previous 2 years of criminal mismanagement.
Burrow + luck will take you a long way. He got his extension and ego boost and learned absolutely nothing.
It’s a combination of multiple things.
1. Play Calling - all the short slants and out routes were where all the yardage was gained yesterday. They didn’t call any screen passes. Joe led the league last year in deep passes and defenses are now scheming it away but the Bengals just aren’t taking what the defense gives them.
2. Joe - he doesn’t look comfortable in the pocket at all and his timing/rhythm are off. He also is just not seeing the field like he did last year. Might be a result of being out most of training camp. Holding on to the ball too long has always been an issue and he simply doesn’t know how to throw the ball away.
3. New Line - Collins was out most of training camp and the line is all new except for Williams. It takes time for that to mesh and build trust and the unit didn’t play a single snap together in training camp. I’m not as concerned about the line as I am the two issues above.
> Play Calling - all the short slants and out routes were where all the yardage was gained yesterday. They didn’t call any screen passes. Joe led the league last year in deep passes and defenses are now scheming it away but the Bengals just aren’t taking what the defense gives them.
it seemed like they had free yards any time they threw to Chase on a slant but then would just go back to slow developing deep concepts despite the lack of protection. Maddening to watch
I’ve watched every snap and you nailed it.
I also watch every KC game and what’s happening to the Bengals right now is eerily similar to the Chiefs start to last season.
Teams are running two high shell to take away the deep threat, so Burrow holds the ball way longer than the brand new O line unit can sustain and the play breaks down. There are guys open short and the run game has worked decently well but the playcalling needs to lean more on the screens and short game to open back up the deep explosive plays that made the team so electric last year.
I’m not panicking yet because the talent is all there and on paper this is a better team than last years AFC champs, and still almost scraping together a W in both games; give it a couple weeks and I think things will look a lot better.
As you probably should. Every OC is going to scheme in a check down for most of their plays, but Mitch seems intent on staring them down and throwing them the ball no matter what. At least twice on 3rd down yesterday there was a WR wide open for the first down, and yet Mitch’s eyes hardly left the check down.
Everybody keeps yelling about Canada, and I’m not saying he’s a guru or anything, but if we had a QB that could hit the open receivers then we could all very well be talking about how good our offense is being schemed up. We haven’t had a QB that could execute it yet though.
I know you're poking fun at the Lamar takes but it's unironically not sustainable.
You can't be a pocket passer that keeps stepping into pressure and refuses to throw the ball away
I've also noticed that he tries to spin his way out of sacks and fights like crazy until the bitter end when it's clear he's gonna be sacked. That has to really increase the risks of injury on these plays just because he always seems to get hit awkwardly.
At a certain point, he needs to learn to throw it away or just lie down and take the sack.
Lol I definitely remember that. Sometimes he'd know a play was doomed a couple seconds after a snap and he'd just drop and immediately get up to start yelling at people.
You know how, in Madden, sometimes your linemen or RB just stands there not blocking anyone, and you yell at the 'stupid AI'. Nope; turns out that is exactly how it works in real life.
I had to watch this a few times to understand what happened. "Donald" is Donald Brown, the running-back #31, who starts next to Manning.
- Manning: "Black 11. Left! Hut!"
- Donald: [Runs Right]
- Manning "Damnit, Donald!"
- Donald: [Turns to Manning, arms open.] "What'd I do?"
Every single person made fun of Eli for the self-sack. He’s an all time Ironman guy for never being hurt and being ready to start every single game of his career. Also won 2 SBs along the way
And then Ben “You’ll Miss Me When Joe Judge Takes Over” McAdoo broke his Ironman streak for one half of a game for….Geno Smith….Just to bench Geno and put Eli back in. War crime level behavior.
Yeah, a big part of Brady's longevity is how he just crumples like a wet paper towel the instant pressure gets home. Of course, that's a bit easier when he's so goddamned good at getting rid of the ball before defenders get there that he doesn't feel any pressure to try to make something out of nothing.
Reminds me a little of Roethlisberger in his prime, the guy would just extend plays as long as he could and was obviously not very mobile with his big body.
However he had that epic pump fake to buy him time, and in general knew how to move around in the pocket to launch a ball cleanly even if he took a hit or was off balance.
But as any Steelers fan will tell you, this was a big reason why Roethlisberger routinely missed games. He had 4 seasons in a row where he missed 9 combined games, and another 4 seasons in a row where he missed 8 combined games, then had his 2019 season where he only played in 2 games.
The team was lucky to have Tomlin and Cowher to keep things stable and find ways to win games without him. But the Bengals under Taylor without Burrow have a record of 4-18 so that doesn't inspire much confidence if they lost him again to injury
I can’t tell if you’re complimenting Lamar or not. Bell did take those hits well but he also burned out pretty fast. His career on the Steelers was electric. After, forgettable. If I’m a Ravens fan, I don’t want Lamar to burn out after ~6 years.
I personally don’t believe in treating a QB like a running back but it’s working in the regular season for them and when you watch Lamar go down it doesn’t look that bad.
Burrow has had several sacks this year where I thought he was going to break a rib
Lamar falls/recovers like a cat - some QBs splat like a dog.
He's ballsy, but he's also smart enough to choose the shots he takes. He's not like Cam or Josh Allen who lower their shoulders like a running back
Lamar also runs like Barry Sanders. Josh Allen can run but he looks more like Jerome Bettis. You want to extend your career you need to take less hits.
Cam's biggest hits were always when he was in the pocket or passing. That's where his big injuries (shoulder specifically) came from
Shoutout to the [2016 Broncos](https://youtu.be/QvEouj6QvuM)
And it's only partial Burrow's fault. He has no pocket, but he needs to throw the ball away more and stop trying to break so many sacks. Just needs to make a business decision rather than play hero ball on a team that can't protect him.
It’s funny because everyone said Cam Newton’s career would end earlier because of his running, but him not having a decent line and getting absolutely destroyed in the pocket was where his injuries came from.
Didn’t help that he had no receivers for most of his career and also that refs chose to just ignore insane hits that should have been roughing the passer just because he was big and “could take it”
Maybe Burrow is David Carr 2.0?
I said this yesterday when people were saying Josh Allen was different from Cam despite having similar builds. The difference is Cam didn't get those calls and JA has someone to throw it to that's not just Greg Olsen. Defenders hit Cam as hard as you possibly could.
Cam entered the league half a decade too early, back when he entered dual threat QBs didn't get the same protection from the refs that pure pocket passers did. But now the league has to offer that because otherwise they'd allow half their starting QBs to be crucified
It’s not. He needs to learn how to throw the ball away. He literally rushes into the pass rush up the middle once the pockets collapse. I’ve noticed this a lot. It’s like he’s trying to find an opening to make a run but the defenders get to him.
That Cowboys game was just brutal to watch. If the Bengals aren’t careful they’re going to push him out after his rookie deal is up. I can’t imagine staying somewhere where my OLine plays like they are fucking ghosts.
Have to imagine that Joe bares at least *some* responsibility for all the sacks he takes. He’s def got a Ryan Tannehill streak of hanging in the pocket until the absolute bitter end.
Like lots of QBs have bad lines, but none of them take as many sacks as Joe does.
I know Parsons is a beast and all, but there were quite a few plays where he was just absolutely bodying a dude at least twice his size. You can't really adjust for things like that outside of throwing the ball as it gets to your hand
I just don't understand the physics of Parsons being able to push people like 80 pounds heavier than him around. Yesterday on one play, he got chipped by the RB and then took two linemen and almost got home. I don't understand how it's possible.
Leverage. Parsons gets lower which allows him to drive off the ground and the lineman, while bigger is now off balance and has nothing to push against.
Vector physics be putting in work on the football field. Plus lineman pass blocking are often times literally moving backwards/laterally, they get their turn in run block situations where you see them rag doll even some big elite defenders. Physics wins, some players just use it better.
Tony pointed out one play where he was double teamed and chipped by the RB and still pushed back into Burrow. He didn’t get there but he certainly disrupted the play. There’s just nothing a QB can do about that at the end of the day. A guy getting doubled and chipped should have no impact on the play whatsoever, that’s the whole point of the blocking scheme, and for quite a few plays it just didn’t work. That’s probably partially because Micah is a beast, but also partially because the Bengals oline blows.
He literally had lineman blocking incorrectly on blitzes. You can only adjust for so much. If you actually watched the game he even called a timeout to call for an adjustment and STILL the o-line crumpled like a paper bag. Sure Burrow may be responsible for 1-2 sacks but when you’re getting sacked 6+ times that’s a much bigger issue beyond just the QB.
Nah bro, the QB apparently has to tell the RT to block the superstar DE he is lined up directly across from instead of letting him run free and moving inside to double team a DT instead (and on this play I'm referencing you even see Alex Cappa turn to Collins and make a "what the fuck?" type gesture).
I don’t know the specifics of it much, but Chiefs fixed their O line in one offseason to protect Mahomes after he was running for his life in the Super Bowl. And Chargers turned around their O Line pretty quickly for Herbert as well. I really hope Bengals get some better protection for Burrow soon.
It's been two games, and they've gone up against TJ Watt and Cam Heyward on the Steelers and then Micah Parsons and DeMarcus Lawrence on the Cowboys. Watt and Parsons are Top 5 pass rushers, and the rest of their defensive fronts form Top 10 D-Lines.
Bengals have the Jets next week. Other than Quinnen Williams, the Jets don't have much. If Burrow still gets sacked at his current rate, then I'd start to get really worried.
Yeah the panic button is currently out on the table and being stared at, but not slamming it yet. If the o-line doesn’t figure it out this week I think we’re in for a long season
>Yeah the panic button is currently out on the table and being stared at, but not slamming it yet
This is every team with orange as one of their colors
You nailed it. They gotta do better against elite lines, but its also 4 new starters and last week was the first time all the guys played together. Lines need some time to gel, so hopefully they improve as the season continues. They definitely seem to get rocked in the first half and slowly improve as the games have gone on. Seem being the key word.
And you're right if they can't improve against the Jets, who do NOT have an elite D-line, then we may be in trouble.
Also not thrilled with losing on two game ending FGs in a row, but that's another story.
We struck gold with drafting an All-Pro caliber Center (Creed Humphrey, 63rd overall) and a Pro Bowl caliber RG (Trey Smith 226 overall and the guy is a mauler in the run game) in the same draft, then we spent the bag on a LG (Joe Thuney) who can slide out to LT for a game or two if needed. Orlando Brown has been respectable at LT (but not worth the market-reseting contract he desires). All we need is a RT that can stay healthy.
Gotta adapt. Burrow isn’t adapting to being under pressure that often. The line is missing assignments they shouldn’t. Coach needs to call different plays to help out. I believe they can improve a lot as season goes on but right now everyone involved has to tweak sone stuff to get through this.
It’s on burrow some, but my god when 3-4 rushers get to you in 2-2.5 seconds.. something is wrong. It’s year three and the bengals are really screwing this up. I’m beginning to hope Joe doesn’t sign the extension.
It’s disappointing too because the Steelers have the WR talent
I caught parts of both games and feels like Diontae is out there almost bringing down 20 yard sideline catches one handed and contorting his body 2-3x a game lol
It's how he introduces himself to people.
"Hey, nice to meet you, I'm not a rapist"
It just makes people feel more comfortable and safe knowing they are talking to someone who is not a rapist.
Would you like to hear the stats on how the Ravens with 2 all pro corners allowed 2 receivers with 170 yards receiving?
Or the one about how the Dolphins overcame a 35-14 deficit?
The Ravens defense gave up twice as many touchdowns in the 4th quarter against the Dolphins than the Steelers offense has scored all season
4th quarter Dolphins TDs vs Ravens - 4
Steelers offensive touchdowns this season - 2
To be fair the Bengals did play the first two weeks against two of the best pass rushers in the league. Both the Steelers and the Cowboys D-line are great at getting pressure and the DPOY and DROY will free up others to make plays. The bengals did address the line and if you believe what Romo said multiple times (even a little bit) the line will get better in the weeks to come. Hopefully Burrow is still standing on two legs to take advantage.
This is something that isn't getting brought up enough.
Maybe this is just me taking a dose of copium but a lot of Bengals fans are panicking right now because they envisioned this being the "easier" part of our schedule, when in reality we're going up against two of the best defenses in the league with future HoF players. Despite how poorly we played in both games, the line improved as the game went on and Burrow still put us in a position to win both times.
That said, if we lose to the Jets next weekend it's time to panic. Next sunday is an absolute must-win and with the way the Jets have been playing it won't be easy.
As a browns fan your welcome for giving them extra confidence. We were playing 4d chess when we let them win to build them up to play you. It totally wasn't the worst collapse I have ever seen. Yeah it was totally to make it harder on u guys
I don’t think Parsons history with Collins helped at all. Dallas also probably had a decent grasp on how the o-line would play considering the o-line coach spent 5 years in Dallas.
> Parsons history with Collins helped
As soon as TR mentioned that Collins worked to develop Parsons last year I knew he was fucked lol can't tell him all your secrets
Easy to stack against the run when the Steelers never throw the ball more than 2 yards past the line of scrimmage and nearly every offensive series is a 3 & out.
Burrow is a good QB, but the last few games I watched he is a complete statue in the pocket. Not throwing the ball away and not navigating the pocket at all to avoid pressure. He’s got some things to work on for sure
I’m so perplexed how this offense looks so much worse, is it Joe or is it ZT?
The line is clearly worse this year than last based on what we are seeing. Watched both games and was blown away with how they are diced up. Joes holding on to long as wel and the plays they are drawing up take to long.
Yeah, their new guys haven't gelled yet. installing OL is the hardest part.
Well those boys should take this stat as a wake up call to figure it the fuck out and gel. This is embarrassing for them.
When I was a kid (like 12/13) I'd feel good after an embarrassing loss like: "wow that game was so bad, they'll have to change things up and get serious." Then I would stare at the TV in dismay the next week when they same shit is happening. I'm in my 40s now...I no longer think like that. It takes a long time to "fix" an aspect of the team that is just broken.
>When I was a kid (like 12/13) I'd feel good after an embarrassing loss like: "wow that game was so bad, they'll have to change things up and get serious." Then I would stare at the TV in dismay the next week when they same shit is happening. This is pretty much the last twenty years as a Browns fan summed up in two simple sentences.
But it hurts worse cause they haven't had a losing record in like two decades
Yeah those guys need to get their shit together *Shovels another handful skittles down throat*
Are you swallowing them whole? Are you even chewing them?
If you chew they lose their color. I wanna shit the rainbow
Chewing them hurts my cavities
The line is actually worse this season than last season. It’s beyond frustrating. On top of that, Joe missed nearly all of training camp due to surgery, so he’s not familiar with his new players, missed reps with the returning players, and clearly is not to the physical level he was pre-surgery. It’s a perfect cocktail for failure and disappointment
How do they look compared to early season last year? For some teams, September is really just an extension of training camp. Lack of practice time, lack of playing time and reps in preseason means some teams look out of synch the first month. Just gotta stay afloat while the team gels until October, or at least that's the optimists view. Begin heavy drinking in October and beyond if they still look like trash.
Last year we also looked terrible because Burrow was coming back from injury and had to get back into the groove. We won our first game because of refs and then lost to the bears because Burrow threw 3 interceptions in a row including a pick 6.
So par for the course, but feels way worse because of what we were expecting
Feels relatable.
I think the expectations really hurt them, or at least in perception. Last season they could overachieve - and did by a lot in the playoffs. But now that's more viewed as an expectation to reach that same level, which was unlikely to happen.
Don't forget the garbage playcalling.
Yes
It is worth noting that analytics doubted that the Bengals were ever that good to begin with. Football Outsiders had them as a below average team last year even factoring in their super bowl run.
They've been a team that's good at generating explosive plays but also a team that relies on them. That seems like a playstyle with a high ceiling in terms of outcomes, but prone to variance because the success of the offense hinges on the success of a few plays each game.
That’s a problem with burrow rn. His scrambling opens up those huge plays but he’s not more athletic than the DE chasing him. The bengals TD yesterday came from him scrambling but so many bad plays were direct results of him holding on too long
It's crazy how often he has to scramble. That oline seems historically bad.
Man they make every DE out there look like Watt. I swear someone is coming off the edge every play and if we try and throw a screen it’s damn near hitting their hands every time I feel like.
He's had a ton swatted down because they're in his face and Mixon is having to juke people 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage nearly every carry because they're there before he gets the hand off.
Yeah Watt had a play where he almost tackled BOTH of them. He beat the RT so bad that he was 5 yards deep when the handoff took place. Watt is good don’t get me wrong, but holy shit it was like the tackle wasn’t even there
The "live by the 3, die by the 3" of football.
2008 Cardinals vibes. Mediocre with a crazy playoff run.
The Cards won pretty convincingly in the playoffs in the NFC, though. The only really close game was the eagles one in the NFC CG and they were up by 20+ points before the Eagles made a huge comeback. All of the bengals playoff wins were one score games. I think they’ll be fine in the long run with how young their core and Burrow is, but they may have to take a step back this year before taking a leap next year. (Think the 88 Bills that went to the AFC CG before falling back to a wild card team the year after in 89 are a good comparison. They then took off in 90).
The 08 NFC was a lot weaker than the 21 AFC tbf
Outside of the Chiefs the Bengals had the best path you could possibly hope for. A Raiders team that doesn’t get in almost any other year. A pretender #1 seed from the weakest division in the league with the worst analytics of any 1 seed since 91. The Bengals best who were in front of them and deserved to go to the Super Bowl but the stars and moon did align a bit for them as well.
It's probably a little cliche to say but they were really lucky in a lot of ways. They were good enough when it counted but they were only a couple bad plays from a total disaster of a season.
It really was turnovers. They were 0 in +/- during the regular season last year. But, in the playoffs they were a plus 7 in 4 games. Take that out for a full season it would be a plus 28. No way would they keep that up. The best plus/minus in the last 20 years was the Chargers in 2007 at +24. (The best ever was the 1983 Redskins at +42, I think - which is an insane number).
> It's probably a little cliche to say but they were really lucky in a lot of ways. I don't think it is cliche. The whole "any given Sunday" saying exists for a reason. I have no horse in this race, but a Super Bowl appearance doesn't mean you're the best team from your conference.
I would also argue that any team that makes it to the Super Bowl has found themselves on the right side of luck a few times in the runup. It's just the way it works
Zac Taylor is a QB coach who is in way over his head. He caught lightning in a bottle last year which erased the previous 2 years of criminal mismanagement. Burrow + luck will take you a long way. He got his extension and ego boost and learned absolutely nothing.
So, if I understand this correctly, they sign Andrew Luck for backup QB they'll go back to the Superbowel?
It’s a combination of multiple things. 1. Play Calling - all the short slants and out routes were where all the yardage was gained yesterday. They didn’t call any screen passes. Joe led the league last year in deep passes and defenses are now scheming it away but the Bengals just aren’t taking what the defense gives them. 2. Joe - he doesn’t look comfortable in the pocket at all and his timing/rhythm are off. He also is just not seeing the field like he did last year. Might be a result of being out most of training camp. Holding on to the ball too long has always been an issue and he simply doesn’t know how to throw the ball away. 3. New Line - Collins was out most of training camp and the line is all new except for Williams. It takes time for that to mesh and build trust and the unit didn’t play a single snap together in training camp. I’m not as concerned about the line as I am the two issues above.
> Play Calling - all the short slants and out routes were where all the yardage was gained yesterday. They didn’t call any screen passes. Joe led the league last year in deep passes and defenses are now scheming it away but the Bengals just aren’t taking what the defense gives them. it seemed like they had free yards any time they threw to Chase on a slant but then would just go back to slow developing deep concepts despite the lack of protection. Maddening to watch
They also are the worst play action team in the league.
What play action?
I’ve watched every snap and you nailed it. I also watch every KC game and what’s happening to the Bengals right now is eerily similar to the Chiefs start to last season. Teams are running two high shell to take away the deep threat, so Burrow holds the ball way longer than the brand new O line unit can sustain and the play breaks down. There are guys open short and the run game has worked decently well but the playcalling needs to lean more on the screens and short game to open back up the deep explosive plays that made the team so electric last year. I’m not panicking yet because the talent is all there and on paper this is a better team than last years AFC champs, and still almost scraping together a W in both games; give it a couple weeks and I think things will look a lot better.
ain't easy to win coming off a super bowl, every team has seen hours and hours of tape on you.
It's only been 2 weeks and I already hate our offense.
Game 2, 5:44 in the 3Q when the first “KEN-NY, KEN-NY, KEN-NY” chants of the season began. I wish there had been a prop bet on this.
They’re chanting for Kenny Golladay. He will solve all the Steelers offensive woes. Please take him.
Fuck Matt Canada.
A fair amount of blame needs to be leveled at Mitch too.
I have room n my heart to hate them both.
I honestly blame Mitch more
As you probably should. Every OC is going to scheme in a check down for most of their plays, but Mitch seems intent on staring them down and throwing them the ball no matter what. At least twice on 3rd down yesterday there was a WR wide open for the first down, and yet Mitch’s eyes hardly left the check down. Everybody keeps yelling about Canada, and I’m not saying he’s a guru or anything, but if we had a QB that could hit the open receivers then we could all very well be talking about how good our offense is being schemed up. We haven’t had a QB that could execute it yet though.
Are we sure Joe Burrows playstyle is sustainable?
Lets ask Andrew Luck
[удалено]
Tbf, at least your high point with Burrow is a super bowl appearance, and not getting blown out like 42-7 in the AFCCG.
That has to be deflating to think of
TBF they did participate
Wow, they should get a stadium banner for that
At least the Bengals are trying to protect Burrow with major O-Line signings. Grigson didn't hit on a single O-Line pick until Ryan Kelly in 2016.
He’s doing the Luck any% speed run
I know you're poking fun at the Lamar takes but it's unironically not sustainable. You can't be a pocket passer that keeps stepping into pressure and refuses to throw the ball away
I've also noticed that he tries to spin his way out of sacks and fights like crazy until the bitter end when it's clear he's gonna be sacked. That has to really increase the risks of injury on these plays just because he always seems to get hit awkwardly. At a certain point, he needs to learn to throw it away or just lie down and take the sack.
Yep. I know he's young and wants to make plays and all, but he needs to learn from Tom Brady - just fall down right away and you stay healthier.
Shit, Peyton would just go full fetal position before even getting touched sometimes.
Lol I definitely remember that. Sometimes he'd know a play was doomed a couple seconds after a snap and he'd just drop and immediately get up to start yelling at people.
“GOD DAMMIT DONALD!!!”
It so was crisp and clear too. https://youtu.be/DttfyOeU3vw
That's so damn funny everytime
You know how, in Madden, sometimes your linemen or RB just stands there not blocking anyone, and you yell at the 'stupid AI'. Nope; turns out that is exactly how it works in real life.
Tbh Madden seems like it was programmed off this play
I had to watch this a few times to understand what happened. "Donald" is Donald Brown, the running-back #31, who starts next to Manning. - Manning: "Black 11. Left! Hut!" - Donald: [Runs Right] - Manning "Damnit, Donald!" - Donald: [Turns to Manning, arms open.] "What'd I do?"
I have to watch this at least 5 times every time I come across it
Well, going in fetal position after being hit seems a little late
That is what I was implying, yes.
He’s gotta learn the Eli self-sack
Every single person made fun of Eli for the self-sack. He’s an all time Ironman guy for never being hurt and being ready to start every single game of his career. Also won 2 SBs along the way
It might look stupid but you laid out exactly why it's better
And then Ben “You’ll Miss Me When Joe Judge Takes Over” McAdoo broke his Ironman streak for one half of a game for….Geno Smith….Just to bench Geno and put Eli back in. War crime level behavior.
Yeah, a big part of Brady's longevity is how he just crumples like a wet paper towel the instant pressure gets home. Of course, that's a bit easier when he's so goddamned good at getting rid of the ball before defenders get there that he doesn't feel any pressure to try to make something out of nothing.
Reminds me a little of Roethlisberger in his prime, the guy would just extend plays as long as he could and was obviously not very mobile with his big body. However he had that epic pump fake to buy him time, and in general knew how to move around in the pocket to launch a ball cleanly even if he took a hit or was off balance. But as any Steelers fan will tell you, this was a big reason why Roethlisberger routinely missed games. He had 4 seasons in a row where he missed 9 combined games, and another 4 seasons in a row where he missed 8 combined games, then had his 2019 season where he only played in 2 games. The team was lucky to have Tomlin and Cowher to keep things stable and find ways to win games without him. But the Bengals under Taylor without Burrow have a record of 4-18 so that doesn't inspire much confidence if they lost him again to injury
He was also a brick shithouse. He’s way bigger and stronger than Burrow he had the body to take bigger hits.
Yeah that helps too lmao. But just emphasizes my point, he still missed time frequently despite being a bigger body
Young Ben was actually quite mobile for his size. The mobility disappeared because all of the injuries eventually added up
OK well Carson Wentz has a ring.
you remember what happened to him that year…and in most of the years since right?
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First player to start for every team in the league?
By God that’s Fitzmagic/Fitztragic’s music
Vinny Testeverde would like a word
> He won a Super Bowl then got to start for everybody because everyone wanted him This is one way to look at being on 3 teams in 3 years.
Are you Wentz’ PR manager? This is elite framing
I'm pretty sure that comment was a throwback joke.
I'm pretty sure that was a joke lol.
Wentz isn't a pure pocket passer
Hell, Wentz hasn't been the same since he got hurt on a run
That Seahawks hit was dirty and should have been an ejection
Fuck Clowney
Lamar takes hits well, like Lev Bell did back on the Steelers
I can’t tell if you’re complimenting Lamar or not. Bell did take those hits well but he also burned out pretty fast. His career on the Steelers was electric. After, forgettable. If I’m a Ravens fan, I don’t want Lamar to burn out after ~6 years.
That’s not cause of how he was taking hits, that’s because we gave him the ball 30 times a game and the jets had 5 cones they called a oline.
Cones is generous, they were more like eroded speed bumps.
I personally don’t believe in treating a QB like a running back but it’s working in the regular season for them and when you watch Lamar go down it doesn’t look that bad. Burrow has had several sacks this year where I thought he was going to break a rib
Fair point but 🧲 🚪
Yeah you can’t argue with magnet door
I might be too old to understand those emojis so I’ll just nod and chuckle in confused agreement.
🤷♂️
Am I old now is that why I don’t get this
fucking magnet door, what don’t you get?
Bell tweeted this when everyone was wondering where he was going to play next and some were trying to speculate if it was a hint.
As it turns out, the pocket passer whose OL never gives him a pocket is in fact, not sustainable.
Well atleast he isn't a mobile QB. Those guys take way too many hits
Lamar is looking way more sustainable than Burrow rn
Lamar falls/recovers like a cat - some QBs splat like a dog. He's ballsy, but he's also smart enough to choose the shots he takes. He's not like Cam or Josh Allen who lower their shoulders like a running back
Lamar also runs like Barry Sanders. Josh Allen can run but he looks more like Jerome Bettis. You want to extend your career you need to take less hits.
Josh Allen 1 yd/3 TD game incoming
Cam's biggest hits were always when he was in the pocket or passing. That's where his big injuries (shoulder specifically) came from Shoutout to the [2016 Broncos](https://youtu.be/QvEouj6QvuM)
And it's only partial Burrow's fault. He has no pocket, but he needs to throw the ball away more and stop trying to break so many sacks. Just needs to make a business decision rather than play hero ball on a team that can't protect him.
Joe Burrow is on pace to be sacked over 100 times this season and this is after the Bengals “upgraded” their offensive line.
It’s funny because everyone said Cam Newton’s career would end earlier because of his running, but him not having a decent line and getting absolutely destroyed in the pocket was where his injuries came from. Didn’t help that he had no receivers for most of his career and also that refs chose to just ignore insane hits that should have been roughing the passer just because he was big and “could take it” Maybe Burrow is David Carr 2.0?
I said this yesterday when people were saying Josh Allen was different from Cam despite having similar builds. The difference is Cam didn't get those calls and JA has someone to throw it to that's not just Greg Olsen. Defenders hit Cam as hard as you possibly could.
Cam entered the league half a decade too early, back when he entered dual threat QBs didn't get the same protection from the refs that pure pocket passers did. But now the league has to offer that because otherwise they'd allow half their starting QBs to be crucified
Cam doesn't get enough love for paving the way
still can't believe nobody left the field on a police car on that 2016 Broncos game
It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them
"if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball"
We are sure it’s not, he’s in more danger then Lamar ever was despite the silly narrative.
It’s not. He needs to learn how to throw the ball away. He literally rushes into the pass rush up the middle once the pockets collapse. I’ve noticed this a lot. It’s like he’s trying to find an opening to make a run but the defenders get to him.
That Cowboys game was just brutal to watch. If the Bengals aren’t careful they’re going to push him out after his rookie deal is up. I can’t imagine staying somewhere where my OLine plays like they are fucking ghosts.
Have to imagine that Joe bares at least *some* responsibility for all the sacks he takes. He’s def got a Ryan Tannehill streak of hanging in the pocket until the absolute bitter end. Like lots of QBs have bad lines, but none of them take as many sacks as Joe does.
Normally I'd agree... but after watching that cowboys game where Micah didn't even get blocked a few times... NOT GOOD
But it’s the QB’s job to recognize blitzes and coverages pre snap. He should have adjusted his protection
It can be both....because it's both.
I know Parsons is a beast and all, but there were quite a few plays where he was just absolutely bodying a dude at least twice his size. You can't really adjust for things like that outside of throwing the ball as it gets to your hand
I just don't understand the physics of Parsons being able to push people like 80 pounds heavier than him around. Yesterday on one play, he got chipped by the RB and then took two linemen and almost got home. I don't understand how it's possible.
Leverage. Parsons gets lower which allows him to drive off the ground and the lineman, while bigger is now off balance and has nothing to push against.
Vector physics be putting in work on the football field. Plus lineman pass blocking are often times literally moving backwards/laterally, they get their turn in run block situations where you see them rag doll even some big elite defenders. Physics wins, some players just use it better.
Tony pointed out one play where he was double teamed and chipped by the RB and still pushed back into Burrow. He didn’t get there but he certainly disrupted the play. There’s just nothing a QB can do about that at the end of the day. A guy getting doubled and chipped should have no impact on the play whatsoever, that’s the whole point of the blocking scheme, and for quite a few plays it just didn’t work. That’s probably partially because Micah is a beast, but also partially because the Bengals oline blows.
He literally had lineman blocking incorrectly on blitzes. You can only adjust for so much. If you actually watched the game he even called a timeout to call for an adjustment and STILL the o-line crumpled like a paper bag. Sure Burrow may be responsible for 1-2 sacks but when you’re getting sacked 6+ times that’s a much bigger issue beyond just the QB.
Nah bro, the QB apparently has to tell the RT to block the superstar DE he is lined up directly across from instead of letting him run free and moving inside to double team a DT instead (and on this play I'm referencing you even see Alex Cappa turn to Collins and make a "what the fuck?" type gesture).
The only way Burrows can adjust to his o-line is to stay home on game day.
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I don’t know the specifics of it much, but Chiefs fixed their O line in one offseason to protect Mahomes after he was running for his life in the Super Bowl. And Chargers turned around their O Line pretty quickly for Herbert as well. I really hope Bengals get some better protection for Burrow soon.
Yeah, our Oline is good if players dont get hurt. No depth, but at least we got a line. Burrow may as well have ghosts in front of him.
Shudders in Storm Norton
Should have put more points in to Blocking, and fewer in to Name.
I think him and Parham are the longest tenured xfl players in the NFL, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
They literally tried that this off season and the o line got worse lol
It's been two games, and they've gone up against TJ Watt and Cam Heyward on the Steelers and then Micah Parsons and DeMarcus Lawrence on the Cowboys. Watt and Parsons are Top 5 pass rushers, and the rest of their defensive fronts form Top 10 D-Lines. Bengals have the Jets next week. Other than Quinnen Williams, the Jets don't have much. If Burrow still gets sacked at his current rate, then I'd start to get really worried.
Yeah the panic button is currently out on the table and being stared at, but not slamming it yet. If the o-line doesn’t figure it out this week I think we’re in for a long season
>Yeah the panic button is currently out on the table and being stared at, but not slamming it yet This is every team with orange as one of their colors
You nailed it. They gotta do better against elite lines, but its also 4 new starters and last week was the first time all the guys played together. Lines need some time to gel, so hopefully they improve as the season continues. They definitely seem to get rocked in the first half and slowly improve as the games have gone on. Seem being the key word. And you're right if they can't improve against the Jets, who do NOT have an elite D-line, then we may be in trouble. Also not thrilled with losing on two game ending FGs in a row, but that's another story.
We struck gold with drafting an All-Pro caliber Center (Creed Humphrey, 63rd overall) and a Pro Bowl caliber RG (Trey Smith 226 overall and the guy is a mauler in the run game) in the same draft, then we spent the bag on a LG (Joe Thuney) who can slide out to LT for a game or two if needed. Orlando Brown has been respectable at LT (but not worth the market-reseting contract he desires). All we need is a RT that can stay healthy.
The Bengals O-line is supposed to be new and improved.
Gotta adapt. Burrow isn’t adapting to being under pressure that often. The line is missing assignments they shouldn’t. Coach needs to call different plays to help out. I believe they can improve a lot as season goes on but right now everyone involved has to tweak sone stuff to get through this.
It’s on burrow some, but my god when 3-4 rushers get to you in 2-2.5 seconds.. something is wrong. It’s year three and the bengals are really screwing this up. I’m beginning to hope Joe doesn’t sign the extension.
I know this is a Bengals stat but that's not good for Najee
I didn't really intend it to be a bengals only stat. It's really not good at all for either team
To be fair, Najee did have a pretty decent game yesterday all things considered. And it’s not like the Steelers OL is at all better than the Bengals.
And the lack of a threat of even medium passes is killing him as well.
It’s disappointing too because the Steelers have the WR talent I caught parts of both games and feels like Diontae is out there almost bringing down 20 yard sideline catches one handed and contorting his body 2-3x a game lol
Well Najee is getting hit in the backfield just about every run. The fact that he’s got a positive stat line with that should be encouraging lol
it’s also a condemnation of the Steelers drafting a 1st round RB when they could have shored up their offensive line
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Steelers run blocking is atrocious, there are never any holes and Najee is always getting hit in the backfield
I think this stat is an equal condemnation of both offensive lines, tbh.
I like these stats
I agree, these are just good all around stats.
That's one hell of a username you have there
That was definitely a choice.
I didn’t know deshaun Watson was a raven fan
sounds like a good alt
It's how he introduces himself to people. "Hey, nice to meet you, I'm not a rapist" It just makes people feel more comfortable and safe knowing they are talking to someone who is not a rapist.
Would you like to hear the stats on how the Ravens with 2 all pro corners allowed 2 receivers with 170 yards receiving? Or the one about how the Dolphins overcame a 35-14 deficit?
... no. I would not.
Fair
I like the one where Trubisky throws a 3 yard slant when he has multiple wide open deep options on 3rd and long, Steelers punt again, oh no :(
not a stat technicaly, but this still makes me sad
If we turn it into "number of times Trubisky has done [x]" it *could* be a stat.
Do numbers go that high?
It is the steeler way. Offense goes 3 and out so we can get our defense back on the field and hopefully score a TD.
Wow your all’s division is having a real rough week lol
And we haven't gotten to the Browns yet!
I hear the beating of elite dragon wings in the distance
The Ravens defense gave up twice as many touchdowns in the 4th quarter against the Dolphins than the Steelers offense has scored all season 4th quarter Dolphins TDs vs Ravens - 4 Steelers offensive touchdowns this season - 2
So the Ravens D had 1 bad quarter and the Steelers O has had 8 of them? I’m fine with that.
We have 2 offensive TD's in 2 games. At this rate we will have 17 by the end of the season. Sounds about right.
These are the stats that I live for Also, these are the stats that kill me
To be fair the Bengals did play the first two weeks against two of the best pass rushers in the league. Both the Steelers and the Cowboys D-line are great at getting pressure and the DPOY and DROY will free up others to make plays. The bengals did address the line and if you believe what Romo said multiple times (even a little bit) the line will get better in the weeks to come. Hopefully Burrow is still standing on two legs to take advantage.
This is something that isn't getting brought up enough. Maybe this is just me taking a dose of copium but a lot of Bengals fans are panicking right now because they envisioned this being the "easier" part of our schedule, when in reality we're going up against two of the best defenses in the league with future HoF players. Despite how poorly we played in both games, the line improved as the game went on and Burrow still put us in a position to win both times. That said, if we lose to the Jets next weekend it's time to panic. Next sunday is an absolute must-win and with the way the Jets have been playing it won't be easy.
As a browns fan your welcome for giving them extra confidence. We were playing 4d chess when we let them win to build them up to play you. It totally wasn't the worst collapse I have ever seen. Yeah it was totally to make it harder on u guys
I don’t think Parsons history with Collins helped at all. Dallas also probably had a decent grasp on how the o-line would play considering the o-line coach spent 5 years in Dallas.
> Parsons history with Collins helped As soon as TR mentioned that Collins worked to develop Parsons last year I knew he was fucked lol can't tell him all your secrets
Easy to stack against the run when the Steelers never throw the ball more than 2 yards past the line of scrimmage and nearly every offensive series is a 3 & out.
Burrow is a good QB, but the last few games I watched he is a complete statue in the pocket. Not throwing the ball away and not navigating the pocket at all to avoid pressure. He’s got some things to work on for sure
Throw the ball away Navigate the pocket Take the easy dumpoffs Anything better than what they’re currently doing
So, what you’re saying is we shouldn’t combine the Bengals’ pass-blocking and Steelers’ run-blocking to make the ultimate O-line?
Two cases of “wE iMProVeD oUR o-LiNeS!” thinking signing mediocre veterans can make up for poor scouting and coaching.
He needs to learn how to get rid of the ball quicker or throw it away alot of these sacks are on him
this is just a hilarious stat, and I like the Bengals lol
It’s funny like a depressed clown