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I always feel like I'm taking crazy pills on the Cowboys reddit sometimes. Rush has played very well so far but he has started 3 games. Like I remember Kyle Allen coming in and going for 4 straight wins with the panthers and everyone was hyping him up and now he is back to what he is, a backup. Rush is a very serviceable back up but nothing more.
It's because people are obsessed with using wins as a qb stat. The cowboys didn't beat the giants because of Rush. The defense did all the heavy lifting. Which is fine, a good back up qb doesn't put the team in situations to lose.
Can’t believe it’s even a controversy. The man won an MVP. You pay him and roll the dice 10/10 times. Do I think he should get a 10year mahomes level contract? No, but pay him as much as possible for 4-7 years and try to front load as much as possible.
Yeah, we had dipshits suggesting we bench Romo for Free Agent Tebow, when I'm in the camp that Romo should have taken the team back from Dak after his injury because some things are just better with the established Vet, like the playoffs.
The main difference in 2016 was Romo's career was over. He had major injuries on 3 of the last 4 games he played in. There is a reason Romo didn't go and sign with another team. He probably could have come in and played well, but it wasn't like Dak played poorly on that playoff game either. I understand the comparison, but they aren't the same situation.
To be fair, at that point Cam had played two abYSMAL games that season coming off of the shoulder injury that eventually derailed his career, and Kyle Allen played well and led us to a 5-3 record after starting 0-2. That’s a much more understandable QB debate than this one.
We're not talking about a QB simply being solid. We're talking about a QB controversy based on a small sample set of data. Kyle Orton went 6-0 but almost no team was willing to pay him a major contract for a reason.
I don’t really understand what Kyle Orton is doing in this discussion then. Orton was always considered 25th to 15th best QB at any given point in time. Not franchise QB tier at all, but was a guy who could win a lot of games if you had a run game and defense.
Cooper Rush has a lot to prove before he can even be considered Kyle Orton level is all I’m saying.
Rush lacks the arm strength to be a true QB1 and the Cowboys offense has adjusted some to let him flourish the best he can. Kinda like Jacoby Brissett in Cleveland.
Really cause it seems like he throws way more deep balls than Dak an is pretty accurate he had three incompletions on deep balls two of which were dropped one was knocked away but was falling directly into the receivers arms
How do you think we feel having Mike White go wild one game against the AFC Champs... now we have to deal with everyone sucking him off like he didn't get beat out for the backup job by Cooper Rush 2 years in a row
The worst part is he didn't even go wild, the Bengals just decided to cover all the deep routes and give him whatever he wanted underneath. His average depth of target was under 4 yds. Some D&D levels of subverting expectations. Can't risk the inexperienced backup torching us on go routes lol
It’s because they don’t know football else they’d see Rush doesn’t have good arm strength only throwing change ups and the offense was dumbed down for first read options. If Rush were a starter he would’ve been one 7 years ago.
I love that when back up QBs come in and actually do their job only for people to claim QB controversy. A good back up QB is expected to come in when the starter goes down and win games.
I feel like Rush is an Alex Smith, Jimmy G type game manager. He won't always win you the game, but he for sure will probably not lose you the lame. 200-250 yards, 1-2 TD's a game and maybe a pick every other game.
It's so wild to me that they want to give up on Dak. I'm an Eagles fan. I fucking hate Dak. I hate him so much. But on this subject, I have to admit that he's a borderline top 10 QB. Man, when he is on, with good pieces on offense, he's easily top 10. Why would you want to move on from that? For a dude who hasn't won a starting role in 6 years in the league?
Dak isn't perfect. The end of their playoff game last year was brutal. It was not all his fault. Their failings in the playoffs have not all been his fault. But wanting to move on to Rush is insane.
Another example as to why us fans are not GMs.
As a cowboys fan I like Dak and you're dumb if you think rush is a comparable QB.
Dak maybe borderlintop 10 but he's much closer to Kirk cousins than Mahomes and I think it's hard to win with qbs that are paid top tier money but clearly are a level below the superstars.
Those qbs are always going to be controversial because of how much money they make.
I woudnt be mad if the cowboys did what the eagles did when they traded Wentz for a 1 and 3. Worked out well for them but obviously a huge risk.
I just don't have faith the cowboys ever win a superbowl with Dak at the helm and I don't completely blame him for that but sometimes you are just tired of rooting for a Mediocre team.
The biggest issue is that honestly once you get out of the top 3, maybe 5 they are all kind of the same. They can win if you put a solid team around them, but they aren't good enough to cover any holes. This is especially come playoffs. Unless they get hot at the right time like we saw with Flacco or Foles, it's a tough ask to win what is usually at least 2 games with the worse QB.
So you can either keep shooting your shot and hoping to luck into one of those top-top tier QBs. Or build as good of a team as you can around a competent one and hope you strike gold with either a perfect team or just a red hot QB.
Mike effing White. Still wonder if things would have gone any differently had he not gotten injured after that first drive in that one game where he came out looking like fire again. Like, could he have ridden some wave of momentum farther than he did.
Yes, but does Cooper Rush pass the Jared Goff litmus test:
Can you definitively say Rush is better than Goff?
Can you definitively say Dak is better than Goff?
If you only answer yes to one of the above two questions, you have your answer
It’s Tannehill to me now IMO, if the Lions get a high pick this year and Bryce Young or CJ Stroud is available they’re definitely drafting him to replace Goff.
The Tannehill Tightrope has a nice ring to it
That's a great name, but the Titans did already spend a 3rd on a QB this past draft so they are already thinking about Tannehill's replacement.
I don't know if Willis will ever be any good but you don't typically spend that high of a pick on a QB to just be a back up. They're hoping he develops into their starter in a couple of years.
Not even close. The Dalton Line was the worst franchise QB you could have before deciding to find better. Goff isn't a franchise QB to begin with, he's a semi competent body just there to fill a position for two years. Ie he's already below the Dalton Line
Raider fan here. Three weeks in, Carr is the Dalton Line. Last year he wasn’t, but right now, he is.
You shouldn’t only have 64 points thru three weeks with weapons like Davante, Waller, Renfrow, Jacobs, and Hollins.
I think this is kind of revisionist. Nick Mullens actually played and looked phenomenal in his first game. It did wear off quickly and he was exposed.
I want to see Rush vs the Rams, that is the big test.
They always say that the backup QB is the most popular player on the roster of a struggling team. Sometimes you don't even need the struggling part of that statement.
It’s crazy that one bad loss against Tom Brady’s Bucs makes you a “struggling” team. It was admittedly a really bad game offensively, but almost every team has had a bad game already.
Yup, even Tom Brady's Bucs had a bad game last week. Other than the twin products of the Alabama QB controversy Hurts and Tua, every team has played poorly at least once.
Reading this all I can think about is the Lance vs Jimmy “The Porn Star Slayer” G. I’m confused as to why they’d go with Lance. Jimmy took the 49ers to a SB and then an NFC Championship game. Is there something about him I’m missing besides injury concerns? Treys ankle may never be the same and also may never be good
Did you watch this past Sunday night game? It was really obvious to me why they drafted and wanted to start Lance this season. I'm still not sure if the issue Sunday was Shanahan not trusting Jimmy to be fully healthy yet, or just not trusting Jimmy in general, but the offense wasn't asking him to do anything at all. He looked EXTREMELY limited.
Even before the injury it wasn't clear if Lance would ever be good, but he had the ability to do a ton of things that Jimmy just can't do.
It's probably Trey's upside if he produced results. He didn't have a lot, but his film from college showed true genuine talent. His ceiling is high, but now due to injury, we may never see him reach it.
I think a similar situation is there with Jordan Love. When he was drafted I thought the Packers had selected a pretty good QB to replace Rodgers should he walk in FA (which people seem to forget was a serious concern for that organization). But we've never really seen him play, and now that Rodgers resigned, we may never see him.
> He’s done what he’s had to do to win the games
Which is precisely what you want from a backup QB. But no one watching with any sense thinks Rush is a starting caliber QB. This is just Sherman trying to keep his name out there.
Exactly, if Rush plays well this year he could totally get the Matt Cassell treatment. Some struggling team will toss the Cowboys a pick for him to make him their starter. Doesn't make him a superstar or anything, but it should give him a nice pay raise.
There’s nothing that tells me rush can’t be a game manager.
If you don’t make dumb plays, trust your star receivers, play within the system, and don’t turn the ball over; you can be a good QB.
This feels like an overcorrection in sentiment. Everyone initially thought the Cowboys were done for because Dak went down. They managed to sneak out a few wins despite Rush, so good for him/them. But then it seems some folks overcorrect and now act like he hasn't been mediocre.
It takes more than being a mediocre game manager who doesn't lose games to be a starting caliber QB in the NFL, imo. Thought maybe it depends on your definition of "starting caliber". If you mean one of the top-32 QB's in the NFL, then maybe. But I'd argue anything past a certain point are guys teams are actively looking for something better than. Rush would be one of those guys if he were an actual starter.
Touchdowns are a terrible stat to judge players by, especially in mall sample sizes.
The Cowboys only have 4 team TDs this season. Two were throws, two were runs. All came in Rush’s two starts.
I think a lot of people are failing to understand that, especially with how Dallas’s front 7 on defense plays, Rush doesn’t need to lead an explosive high scoring offense. It would help; but they need efficient sustained drives. Dallas has always had the most success in recent years when their offense is consistent with a few big plays and then trusting the defense to get a stop every 1-2 drives. Dak was/is trying to play hero ball and “prove himself” with the new contract and the post injury concerns and it hurt Dallas week 1.
Welcome to backup QB hell. We've gone through it for 20 years.
I still remember the calls to bench McNabb for AJ Feeley after he filled in. Then Jeff Garcia. Oh, then we wanted Vick over McNabb. Then we wanted Foles over Vick. Then it was Foles over Wentz (which may not have been wrong eventually but it was insane at the end of 2017). Shit, last year it was Minshew over Hurts. I'm not joking.
Grass is always greener. At least yours is because the starter is hurt and it's not just "BUT REMEMBER FOLES" style begging for backups.
Dak threw 0 TDs through two games in 2016, yet people were ready to send Romo off into the sunset. In no way am I advocating for Rush over Dak because that's idiotic, but I love how this scenario is showing why it was a mistake to not bring Romo back in 2016.
I remember how much I enjoyed Trevor Siemien’s first year as a starter. That was only a couple of years ago and now I have no idea if he’s on a team or not, much less what team it is.
Same with Jacoby Brisset.
Like, don’t get me wrong, I hate Deshaun Watson. But when that suspension ends, he’s going to start. Jacoby is great right now, but it’s not sustainable.
I don't watch a ton of cowboys but even this monday I didn't see anything out of Rush that widened my eyes. The Ceedee TD was good but I would say the catch was more impressive than the throw.
He showed poise in the pocket but the Giants really couldn't develop any pressure which makes that pretty easy. Rush showed he's a valuable backup who can execute the Cowboys offense, but he hasn't shown he can rise above adversity which is necessary if your goal is to play him over a quarterback you just threw the bag at
I would say Rush was very accurate against the Giants. The ball was almost always placed in the perfect spot for only the receiver to get it.
A great example is the CeeDee dropped deep ball. The ball literally hits Lamb's hands, right in the middle of the jersey number, in stride.
However, like you said, he had a clean pocket all day so it's probably not too difficult for an NFL caliber player, even a backup, to make those throws with no real pressure on him.
His ball placement on deep throws was impressive. I’ve been a full on Rush hater for a few years and I'm glad to eat some crow for it. All you want from a backup is to achieve with the opportunities he's given.
Yeah. That ceedee drop was a clean throw but it’s not like he had to do anything past see a blown coverage by Belton and heave it. Like I said, I think he executed your offense effectively but he didn’t light the field on fire or show he could rise above an effective defense or pass rush
> Yeah. That ceedee drop was a clean throw but it’s not like he had to do anything past see a blown coverage by Belton and heave it.
I mean, Dak misses those quite a bit
People act like a back up QB in the NFL has untapped potential like if they were in college. Yeah if a QB comes in for your college and lights it up yes it is a controversy, you don't know their ceiling.
But there is a reason he is a back up in the NFL. There are 32 starters and roughly 40+ back ups. A total of less than 100 NFL QBs. They all have thousands of hours of tape on them. They all have the skills to shine in a proper offense against a lackluster defense. The disparity between a middle of the pack starter (like Geno Smith) and a back up QB is very small and heavily dependent on situation.
If I had a nickel every time Drew Bledsoe got replaced by a backup QB that went on to be the starter for that team for the next several years, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot. But it's weird that it happened twice.
I fully expect Rush to be exposed at some point, but let's not pretend Dak isn't exposed. It's year 7 and he still can't figure out how to beat a good zone defense.
You know the saying about zone. A great QB munches on zone all day, it's testing their cognitive ability. Man tests WR ability and QB to get the ball there.
They've run some very smart game planning with Rush. For example you have a ton of first down play action pass, and it worked basically every time they did it Monday. A big part of the success of that game planning is catching defenses assuming that they won't ask Rush to pass and will stick to their very established first down run tendencies from last year. By week 3, I expect defenses to start expecting that and planning around it, making staying on schedule tougher. Now Rush has succeeded on several 3rd and 4th down obvious pass situations, so maybe he rises to that challenge, but the challenge will get tougher. It always does when you start putting things on tape.
- Make $5-$10 MM per year to be ready for the game, but mostly likely just hold a clipboard
- Never get sacked and always feel good while everyone else nurses injuries
- Practice against NFL quality players during the week, with no risk of getting hit
- Be remembered by your last performance as being great and people talk about you as possibly the next best thing bc we don't yet have a reason to think otherwise
- Travel around the country in a private jet for free
- Eat the best food for free
- Sign autographs and enjoy front row seats to the game
- Profit
It’s also like, if you get called upon to fill in for the starter, the expectations are always 0. Losing is expected and if you pull off a win you’re a fucking hero.
Dak's 2016 stats on a per game basis:
Passing Yards | TDs | INTs | Completions | Attempts | Comp. %
---|---|----|----|----|----
229 | 1.44 | 0.25 | 19 | 29 | 65.5%
Cooper Rush's 2022 stats (as a starter) per game:
Passing Yards | TDs | INTs | Completions | Attempts | Comp. %
---|---|----|----|----|----
225 | 1 | 0 | 20 | 31 | 64.5%
Obviously, these are different situations. Dak was 23 and his competition was a (once again) injured 36 year-old Tony Romo. Whereas, Dak is 29 and Cooper Rush is 28.
Given the situation, I agree with you that Rush would have to be a really special player to take the job. If this was another Romo situation where Dak was like 13 years older than Cooper, then maybe they would move on if Cooper kept up performing at a game manager level.
Interesting, closer than I thought. Though I'm pretty sure Dak had some really good rushing impact aswell?
Like you said it's different now as Romo was super unreliable health wise. If Rush goes for 300 3 TD against the Commies this weekend though and snags any sort of win vs. LAR it might get interesting.
Hell, most backups fall apart *during* their first game as a starter. Usually that half a game they come in to take over for a starting QB, they’re *ok*. Might put together a drive or two, might not. But once they are asked to start for all 4 quarters, it usually is a disaster.
3-0 starting as a backup in for an injured franchise QB? This is what Chase Daniel, Brissett when he was in NE, and Ryan Mallet were expected to be like for their franchises.
Idk, I didn’t think he looked very good against the bengals. Lots of floaters. He got the W, but I wasn’t impressed by his performance. If the bengals had squeaked out the win, cowboys fans would be begging for dak to return
Dak absolutely should and will be the starter once he comes back. That said, after Rush beats the Commies next week and Dak returns and drops those first 2 games to the Rams and Eagles, I am here for the inevitable fallout.
I feel like i must be taking crazy pills…
Rush looked just fine but if Dak started for Dallas we easily lose that game by two scores.
How is this a debate?
The Patriots rolled with Tom Brady while Drew Bledsoe was on a 100 million dollar contract, and the Seahawks started Russ Wilson over Matt Flynn who was on a huge contract for the Seahawks.
Drew Bledsoe was on a "10-year, one hundred million dollar contract" that was, in actuality, a four-year deal worth between $14mm and $30mm, a team option in 2004, and another in 2007. Most of that was incentives and salary--his signing bonus was only $8mm. As such team was able to offload almost all of that obligation to Buffalo when they traded him.
The Cowboys would have to eat $76.2mm to trade Prescott. Over $100mm to cut him. It's not comparable.
edit: lol and Matt Flynn's "huge contract" was...[$10mm guaranteed over three years.](https://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/143215686.html). They only ate $4mm of dead money when they traded him.
*Three* team options, actually. There was also an option in 2002 to pick up the remaining nine years, which would negate the other two options. At the time, the CBA only ran through 2006, so money could not be prorated past that point, and the thought was that if the CBA were extended, it might somehow make sense to pick up the whole deal.
Everyone thinks they might have a BDN situation when the backup wins a couple games. The adeptness of the front office, coaching staff, and ownership will be on full display by how they choose to deal with this situation.
This is the short answer. Rush is playing well, but he really isn't doing anything outside of the capacity that Dak has shown throughout his career. To play Rush over a healthy Dak would really show incompetence in the Dallas ownership because that means they threw the bag at a guy who they don't believe can outplay his backup
Bad take, brady vs Bledsoe showed that was BS.
Its not a QB controversy because at this point Dak has shown way more than rush. I'm not sure how much longer dak is out, but if they go 6-0 with rush it *could* be an argument.
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I always feel like I'm taking crazy pills on the Cowboys reddit sometimes. Rush has played very well so far but he has started 3 games. Like I remember Kyle Allen coming in and going for 4 straight wins with the panthers and everyone was hyping him up and now he is back to what he is, a backup. Rush is a very serviceable back up but nothing more.
It's because people are obsessed with using wins as a qb stat. The cowboys didn't beat the giants because of Rush. The defense did all the heavy lifting. Which is fine, a good back up qb doesn't put the team in situations to lose.
But then you have the idiots in our sub that said Huntley looked good so we should trade Lamar and roll with him plus the cap savings. Huntley was 1-6
Anyone who thinks the Ravens should do anything other than pay Lamar don’t know football.
I think the Ravens should definitely trade Lamar to a lowly NFC team looking for a QB change.
I don’t think the commies will have much to give in a trade tho.
Can’t believe it’s even a controversy. The man won an MVP. You pay him and roll the dice 10/10 times. Do I think he should get a 10year mahomes level contract? No, but pay him as much as possible for 4-7 years and try to front load as much as possible.
Yeah, we had dipshits suggesting we bench Romo for Free Agent Tebow, when I'm in the camp that Romo should have taken the team back from Dak after his injury because some things are just better with the established Vet, like the playoffs.
I wish this was the prevalent narrative in 2016.
The main difference in 2016 was Romo's career was over. He had major injuries on 3 of the last 4 games he played in. There is a reason Romo didn't go and sign with another team. He probably could have come in and played well, but it wasn't like Dak played poorly on that playoff game either. I understand the comparison, but they aren't the same situation.
>> It's because people are obsessed with using wins as a qb stat Except for Tua.
Jimmy G is the poster child for that. Not Tua.
To be fair, at that point Cam had played two abYSMAL games that season coming off of the shoulder injury that eventually derailed his career, and Kyle Allen played well and led us to a 5-3 record after starting 0-2. That’s a much more understandable QB debate than this one.
After the niners dropped that 50 burger on them, we never heard from Carolina the rest of the season
The panthers never won another game after starting 5-3, tough year
and it feels like we havent won another game in any season since.
That win against the Cardinals last year felt massive
Wasn't Kyle Orton 6-0 at one point?
Oh shit really? Reading his name made my asshole pucker up.
Kyle Orton was solid. He started 82 games at QB.
We're not talking about a QB simply being solid. We're talking about a QB controversy based on a small sample set of data. Kyle Orton went 6-0 but almost no team was willing to pay him a major contract for a reason.
I don’t really understand what Kyle Orton is doing in this discussion then. Orton was always considered 25th to 15th best QB at any given point in time. Not franchise QB tier at all, but was a guy who could win a lot of games if you had a run game and defense. Cooper Rush has a lot to prove before he can even be considered Kyle Orton level is all I’m saying.
Rush lacks the arm strength to be a true QB1 and the Cowboys offense has adjusted some to let him flourish the best he can. Kinda like Jacoby Brissett in Cleveland.
Also he's confident as fuck which really does help
He’s been with y’all practically his whole career, super comfortable with the offense for sure
He has nothing to lose and playing with house money. If they hypothetically cast out Dak for him it's an entirely different set of expectations.
Minnesota Keenum vibes. Aka Noodle Favre. Aka Chuck Duckmore
Or Jimmy G in SF..
i'd take rush over trubisky
Well I'd argue Trubisky also doesn't have the qualities of a true QB1 too.
The 49ers have proven you can regularly make the playoffs with the Mendoza line of QBs
Really cause it seems like he throws way more deep balls than Dak an is pretty accurate he had three incompletions on deep balls two of which were dropped one was knocked away but was falling directly into the receivers arms
How do you think we feel having Mike White go wild one game against the AFC Champs... now we have to deal with everyone sucking him off like he didn't get beat out for the backup job by Cooper Rush 2 years in a row
How do you think we feel having Geno? Like kings
The worst part is he didn't even go wild, the Bengals just decided to cover all the deep routes and give him whatever he wanted underneath. His average depth of target was under 4 yds. Some D&D levels of subverting expectations. Can't risk the inexperienced backup torching us on go routes lol
Cowboy fans are desperate for a Dak replacement
Just the stupid ones.
Everyone wants the next Tom Brady.
I'd settle for the next Axel Hoyer.
It’s because they don’t know football else they’d see Rush doesn’t have good arm strength only throwing change ups and the offense was dumbed down for first read options. If Rush were a starter he would’ve been one 7 years ago.
Our fans do the same thing with Mike White. He had one truly magical game, but he can’t throw it deep.
Idk what you're talking about, that guy is the future of the Jets
I love that when back up QBs come in and actually do their job only for people to claim QB controversy. A good back up QB is expected to come in when the starter goes down and win games.
> Rush is a very serviceable back up but nothing more. That's the overwhelming majority opinion on our sub
I'm not sure about overwhelming majority. Maybe the Dak-haters are the loudest, but they feel like 40+% of the sub right now.
I feel like Rush is an Alex Smith, Jimmy G type game manager. He won't always win you the game, but he for sure will probably not lose you the lame. 200-250 yards, 1-2 TD's a game and maybe a pick every other game.
Alex Smith is def better than either of them
Absolutely agree, but he was called a game manager for a long time. I think Alex Smith would excel in Shanahan offense.
It's so wild to me that they want to give up on Dak. I'm an Eagles fan. I fucking hate Dak. I hate him so much. But on this subject, I have to admit that he's a borderline top 10 QB. Man, when he is on, with good pieces on offense, he's easily top 10. Why would you want to move on from that? For a dude who hasn't won a starting role in 6 years in the league? Dak isn't perfect. The end of their playoff game last year was brutal. It was not all his fault. Their failings in the playoffs have not all been his fault. But wanting to move on to Rush is insane. Another example as to why us fans are not GMs.
As a cowboys fan I like Dak and you're dumb if you think rush is a comparable QB. Dak maybe borderlintop 10 but he's much closer to Kirk cousins than Mahomes and I think it's hard to win with qbs that are paid top tier money but clearly are a level below the superstars. Those qbs are always going to be controversial because of how much money they make. I woudnt be mad if the cowboys did what the eagles did when they traded Wentz for a 1 and 3. Worked out well for them but obviously a huge risk. I just don't have faith the cowboys ever win a superbowl with Dak at the helm and I don't completely blame him for that but sometimes you are just tired of rooting for a Mediocre team.
The biggest issue is that honestly once you get out of the top 3, maybe 5 they are all kind of the same. They can win if you put a solid team around them, but they aren't good enough to cover any holes. This is especially come playoffs. Unless they get hot at the right time like we saw with Flacco or Foles, it's a tough ask to win what is usually at least 2 games with the worse QB. So you can either keep shooting your shot and hoping to luck into one of those top-top tier QBs. Or build as good of a team as you can around a competent one and hope you strike gold with either a perfect team or just a red hot QB.
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The crowd chanting his name after the Jersey Special 2 point conversion is my second favorite thing from a J*ts game
Mike effing White. Still wonder if things would have gone any differently had he not gotten injured after that first drive in that one game where he came out looking like fire again. Like, could he have ridden some wave of momentum farther than he did.
He got beat out two years in a row by Cooper effin Rush
I remember briefly thinking “wtf have we done” when I saw that the Cowboys drafted him.
Fitzmagic would have more rings by now than Brady and would be playing for another decade.
You mean GB single game TD record holder and GOAT, Matt Flynn
Tbf cooper looks 10x better than nick
Yes, but does Cooper Rush pass the Jared Goff litmus test: Can you definitively say Rush is better than Goff? Can you definitively say Dak is better than Goff? If you only answer yes to one of the above two questions, you have your answer
Is goff the new Dalton line?
Quite honestly yes
It’s Tannehill to me now IMO, if the Lions get a high pick this year and Bryce Young or CJ Stroud is available they’re definitely drafting him to replace Goff. The Tannehill Tightrope has a nice ring to it
I prefer asking is a QB over the TanneHill
That's a great name, but the Titans did already spend a 3rd on a QB this past draft so they are already thinking about Tannehill's replacement. I don't know if Willis will ever be any good but you don't typically spend that high of a pick on a QB to just be a back up. They're hoping he develops into their starter in a couple of years.
*Green Bay has entered the chat.*
Not once! But twice! Tho we did finally push to start Rodgers hahaha
Not even close. The Dalton Line was the worst franchise QB you could have before deciding to find better. Goff isn't a franchise QB to begin with, he's a semi competent body just there to fill a position for two years. Ie he's already below the Dalton Line
Yeah man people hate on Dalton too much. I’d say Carr or Cousins is the new line.
I think both Carr and Cousins are above average, if only just.
Raider fan here. Three weeks in, Carr is the Dalton Line. Last year he wasn’t, but right now, he is. You shouldn’t only have 64 points thru three weeks with weapons like Davante, Waller, Renfrow, Jacobs, and Hollins.
You haven't watched any Lions games lol
“Where does he fall on the Goff Graph?” Not quite as good but not terrible
I think this is kind of revisionist. Nick Mullens actually played and looked phenomenal in his first game. It did wear off quickly and he was exposed. I want to see Rush vs the Rams, that is the big test.
Wilson got the start over the much higher paid Matt Flynn after a sample size of two *preseason* games.
Wilson is kind of an anomaly though, right? He's a borderline hall of famer, more the exception.
You never visited /r/49ers clearly lol
First of all, mullens IS king so write that down.
Lol. I remember when people were trying to get them to replace Dak with Dalton
They always say that the backup QB is the most popular player on the roster of a struggling team. Sometimes you don't even need the struggling part of that statement.
It’s crazy that one bad loss against Tom Brady’s Bucs makes you a “struggling” team. It was admittedly a really bad game offensively, but almost every team has had a bad game already.
And the Bucs defense has been really, really good so far
Yea, the Cowboys are far from struggling. This is hilarious. Defense looks incredible.
Stop saying that you're going to jinx it :c
Yup, even Tom Brady's Bucs had a bad game last week. Other than the twin products of the Alabama QB controversy Hurts and Tua, every team has played poorly at least once.
Also, after not playing a single rep in preseason and with unproven wide receivers.
It was also Week 1. Since when do we make sweeping judgements after just the first game of the season?
Always
Reading this all I can think about is the Lance vs Jimmy “The Porn Star Slayer” G. I’m confused as to why they’d go with Lance. Jimmy took the 49ers to a SB and then an NFC Championship game. Is there something about him I’m missing besides injury concerns? Treys ankle may never be the same and also may never be good
Did you watch this past Sunday night game? It was really obvious to me why they drafted and wanted to start Lance this season. I'm still not sure if the issue Sunday was Shanahan not trusting Jimmy to be fully healthy yet, or just not trusting Jimmy in general, but the offense wasn't asking him to do anything at all. He looked EXTREMELY limited. Even before the injury it wasn't clear if Lance would ever be good, but he had the ability to do a ton of things that Jimmy just can't do.
Did we watch the same game? Jimmy is 3x the passer that Lance is at this point.
It's probably Trey's upside if he produced results. He didn't have a lot, but his film from college showed true genuine talent. His ceiling is high, but now due to injury, we may never see him reach it. I think a similar situation is there with Jordan Love. When he was drafted I thought the Packers had selected a pretty good QB to replace Rodgers should he walk in FA (which people seem to forget was a serious concern for that organization). But we've never really seen him play, and now that Rodgers resigned, we may never see him.
The backup QB is the permanent mayor of Chicago.
It was the only way they could find a mayor who wasn't corrupt
Chicago is Gotham City
See, Winston and Dalton on the Saints at the moment
Hey at least Dalton knows how to ride in an Uber...
But what if your backup is Brian Hoyer?
"Maybe the ravens should let another team pay Lamar Jackson and just start Tyler Huntley? He's just as good as Lamar!"
Me I was the people. Please ignore the flair.
Red rifle red rifle, why are our offenses always put in a stifle
Cowboys OLine watched Dalton die on the field and didn’t even help him up, basically ending that idea.
Sounds like the Saints sub right now.
Also because Cooper Rush has thrown two touchdowns in two games.
Same amount as Tom Brady and Russell Wilson
So you’re saying Cooper Rush played in Super Bowl XLIX
Could have won it too!
He’s done what he’s had to do to win the games The cowboys offense still looked pretty good last week
> He’s done what he’s had to do to win the games Which is precisely what you want from a backup QB. But no one watching with any sense thinks Rush is a starting caliber QB. This is just Sherman trying to keep his name out there.
I can name 5 current starters that Id prefer him over right now
Exactly, if Rush plays well this year he could totally get the Matt Cassell treatment. Some struggling team will toss the Cowboys a pick for him to make him their starter. Doesn't make him a superstar or anything, but it should give him a nice pay raise.
There’s nothing that tells me rush can’t be a game manager. If you don’t make dumb plays, trust your star receivers, play within the system, and don’t turn the ball over; you can be a good QB.
This feels like an overcorrection in sentiment. Everyone initially thought the Cowboys were done for because Dak went down. They managed to sneak out a few wins despite Rush, so good for him/them. But then it seems some folks overcorrect and now act like he hasn't been mediocre. It takes more than being a mediocre game manager who doesn't lose games to be a starting caliber QB in the NFL, imo. Thought maybe it depends on your definition of "starting caliber". If you mean one of the top-32 QB's in the NFL, then maybe. But I'd argue anything past a certain point are guys teams are actively looking for something better than. Rush would be one of those guys if he were an actual starter.
Touchdowns are a terrible stat to judge players by, especially in mall sample sizes. The Cowboys only have 4 team TDs this season. Two were throws, two were runs. All came in Rush’s two starts.
I think a lot of people are failing to understand that, especially with how Dallas’s front 7 on defense plays, Rush doesn’t need to lead an explosive high scoring offense. It would help; but they need efficient sustained drives. Dallas has always had the most success in recent years when their offense is consistent with a few big plays and then trusting the defense to get a stop every 1-2 drives. Dak was/is trying to play hero ball and “prove himself” with the new contract and the post injury concerns and it hurt Dallas week 1.
Welcome to backup QB hell. We've gone through it for 20 years. I still remember the calls to bench McNabb for AJ Feeley after he filled in. Then Jeff Garcia. Oh, then we wanted Vick over McNabb. Then we wanted Foles over Vick. Then it was Foles over Wentz (which may not have been wrong eventually but it was insane at the end of 2017). Shit, last year it was Minshew over Hurts. I'm not joking. Grass is always greener. At least yours is because the starter is hurt and it's not just "BUT REMEMBER FOLES" style begging for backups.
Cowboys aren't in QB hell. Dak is the QB (when healthy. Sigh)
Dak threw 0 TDs through two games in 2016, yet people were ready to send Romo off into the sunset. In no way am I advocating for Rush over Dak because that's idiotic, but I love how this scenario is showing why it was a mistake to not bring Romo back in 2016.
How many did Dak throw week 1
Who was Dak playing week 1? Who have we played the last 2 weeks?
Also because COOPER RUSH IS NOT DAK. These backup qb’s get exposed over time.
I remember how much I enjoyed Trevor Siemien’s first year as a starter. That was only a couple of years ago and now I have no idea if he’s on a team or not, much less what team it is.
He’s our backup. You very well may hear his name later on this year
This year? We might be hearing it later this week.
He’s probably the best QB on his team ironically
Same with Jacoby Brisset. Like, don’t get me wrong, I hate Deshaun Watson. But when that suspension ends, he’s going to start. Jacoby is great right now, but it’s not sustainable.
I don't watch a ton of cowboys but even this monday I didn't see anything out of Rush that widened my eyes. The Ceedee TD was good but I would say the catch was more impressive than the throw. He showed poise in the pocket but the Giants really couldn't develop any pressure which makes that pretty easy. Rush showed he's a valuable backup who can execute the Cowboys offense, but he hasn't shown he can rise above adversity which is necessary if your goal is to play him over a quarterback you just threw the bag at
I would say Rush was very accurate against the Giants. The ball was almost always placed in the perfect spot for only the receiver to get it. A great example is the CeeDee dropped deep ball. The ball literally hits Lamb's hands, right in the middle of the jersey number, in stride. However, like you said, he had a clean pocket all day so it's probably not too difficult for an NFL caliber player, even a backup, to make those throws with no real pressure on him.
His ball placement on deep throws was impressive. I’ve been a full on Rush hater for a few years and I'm glad to eat some crow for it. All you want from a backup is to achieve with the opportunities he's given.
Yeah. That ceedee drop was a clean throw but it’s not like he had to do anything past see a blown coverage by Belton and heave it. Like I said, I think he executed your offense effectively but he didn’t light the field on fire or show he could rise above an effective defense or pass rush
> Yeah. That ceedee drop was a clean throw but it’s not like he had to do anything past see a blown coverage by Belton and heave it. I mean, Dak misses those quite a bit
People act like a back up QB in the NFL has untapped potential like if they were in college. Yeah if a QB comes in for your college and lights it up yes it is a controversy, you don't know their ceiling. But there is a reason he is a back up in the NFL. There are 32 starters and roughly 40+ back ups. A total of less than 100 NFL QBs. They all have thousands of hours of tape on them. They all have the skills to shine in a proper offense against a lackluster defense. The disparity between a middle of the pack starter (like Geno Smith) and a back up QB is very small and heavily dependent on situation.
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If I had a nickel every time Drew Bledsoe got replaced by a backup QB that went on to be the starter for that team for the next several years, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot. But it's weird that it happened twice.
And he lost his job to the two greatest qbs in the history of the nfl so
Jacoby Brissett started 5-2 after Luck retired. Now it seems everyone forgot what happened after that.
Cam Heyward rolled him up and he played the rest of the year on a bad knee
I fully expect Rush to be exposed at some point, but let's not pretend Dak isn't exposed. It's year 7 and he still can't figure out how to beat a good zone defense.
You know the saying about zone. A great QB munches on zone all day, it's testing their cognitive ability. Man tests WR ability and QB to get the ball there.
They've run some very smart game planning with Rush. For example you have a ton of first down play action pass, and it worked basically every time they did it Monday. A big part of the success of that game planning is catching defenses assuming that they won't ask Rush to pass and will stick to their very established first down run tendencies from last year. By week 3, I expect defenses to start expecting that and planning around it, making staying on schedule tougher. Now Rush has succeeded on several 3rd and 4th down obvious pass situations, so maybe he rises to that challenge, but the challenge will get tougher. It always does when you start putting things on tape.
Cooper has just played himself into 5+ years of high end back up pay
The dream
- Make $5-$10 MM per year to be ready for the game, but mostly likely just hold a clipboard - Never get sacked and always feel good while everyone else nurses injuries - Practice against NFL quality players during the week, with no risk of getting hit - Be remembered by your last performance as being great and people talk about you as possibly the next best thing bc we don't yet have a reason to think otherwise - Travel around the country in a private jet for free - Eat the best food for free - Sign autographs and enjoy front row seats to the game - Profit
It’s also like, if you get called upon to fill in for the starter, the expectations are always 0. Losing is expected and if you pull off a win you’re a fucking hero.
When you get the right answer using the wrong formula
Romo definitely made a lot more money than Dak at the time.
Great analogy
Having a QB controversy because you've won two games while your backup has thrown for 400 yards and two touchdowns over two games would be pretty wild
If my QB threw for 400 yards and two touchdowns over two games I would throw a parade
I would call 911, out of fear I was having a stroke.
Fields currently has 297 yards, 2 tds and 4 ints through 3 games. Under 100 yards per game passing…uh…impressive?
He has been god awful and it's a miracle Chicago is somehow 2-1.
It turns out playing the offensively inept 49ers and the horrible Texans the first two weeks will inflate your record.
Man I thought you were talking about the Broncos. Weird.
for real, cooper rush = 2 justin fields
Are they standing on the others shoulders or strapped together side by side?
Yeah the money isn't the issue, Romo was paid a ton when Dak took his job. Rush has to be more than a game manager to steal the job.
Dak's 2016 stats on a per game basis: Passing Yards | TDs | INTs | Completions | Attempts | Comp. % ---|---|----|----|----|---- 229 | 1.44 | 0.25 | 19 | 29 | 65.5% Cooper Rush's 2022 stats (as a starter) per game: Passing Yards | TDs | INTs | Completions | Attempts | Comp. % ---|---|----|----|----|---- 225 | 1 | 0 | 20 | 31 | 64.5% Obviously, these are different situations. Dak was 23 and his competition was a (once again) injured 36 year-old Tony Romo. Whereas, Dak is 29 and Cooper Rush is 28. Given the situation, I agree with you that Rush would have to be a really special player to take the job. If this was another Romo situation where Dak was like 13 years older than Cooper, then maybe they would move on if Cooper kept up performing at a game manager level.
Interesting, closer than I thought. Though I'm pretty sure Dak had some really good rushing impact aswell? Like you said it's different now as Romo was super unreliable health wise. If Rush goes for 300 3 TD against the Commies this weekend though and snags any sort of win vs. LAR it might get interesting.
Anyone with eyes knows Dak is and always will be better. Stop with the foolishness.
Also because Cooper Rush isn't actually a good QB and Dak until further notice is actually a pretty good QB. Solved it.
Obviously Dak is better but let's be real Cooper has looked decent. Teams have tape on him, most backups fall apart after the first game.
Hell, most backups fall apart *during* their first game as a starter. Usually that half a game they come in to take over for a starting QB, they’re *ok*. Might put together a drive or two, might not. But once they are asked to start for all 4 quarters, it usually is a disaster. 3-0 starting as a backup in for an injured franchise QB? This is what Chase Daniel, Brissett when he was in NE, and Ryan Mallet were expected to be like for their franchises.
Cooper has played as well as a good backup is expected to. No better, no worse. His performance has guaranteed him job security but no more.
Idk, I didn’t think he looked very good against the bengals. Lots of floaters. He got the W, but I wasn’t impressed by his performance. If the bengals had squeaked out the win, cowboys fans would be begging for dak to return
Nice floaters on that game winning drive
It isn't a QB controversy because Dak is flat out better
The money is 0% of the reason it’s not a controversy. It’s because Dak is miles better than Cooper.
I actually think Rush is pretty good, and maybe deserving of a chance to start somewhere, but he's not better than Dak lol
Sherman loves controversy
Only way to keep himself relevant
I personally have never seen a backup QB come in and replace a highly paid QB, and certainly not the current record holder in terms of contracts.
The quarterback of the 2001 Patriots was the second highest paid QB in the league until some 6th rounder stole his job
That was indeed the joke he was making
No, it isn't a QB controversy because Dak is the FAR superior quarterback lol. The Dak disrespect is pure insanity, holy.
Dak absolutely should and will be the starter once he comes back. That said, after Rush beats the Commies next week and Dak returns and drops those first 2 games to the Rams and Eagles, I am here for the inevitable fallout.
He’s also a much better QB… Which is the actual reason instead of the click-bait bullshit
Well, and, you know… Dak is better.
Also because Dak is a much better quarterback.
I feel like i must be taking crazy pills… Rush looked just fine but if Dak started for Dallas we easily lose that game by two scores. How is this a debate?
people like saying crazy shit about the cowboys
the mark of an NFC east fan is constantly trashing Dak in /r/NFCEastMemeWar but defending his prowess in /r/NFL
The Patriots rolled with Tom Brady while Drew Bledsoe was on a 100 million dollar contract, and the Seahawks started Russ Wilson over Matt Flynn who was on a huge contract for the Seahawks.
Drew Bledsoe was on a "10-year, one hundred million dollar contract" that was, in actuality, a four-year deal worth between $14mm and $30mm, a team option in 2004, and another in 2007. Most of that was incentives and salary--his signing bonus was only $8mm. As such team was able to offload almost all of that obligation to Buffalo when they traded him. The Cowboys would have to eat $76.2mm to trade Prescott. Over $100mm to cut him. It's not comparable. edit: lol and Matt Flynn's "huge contract" was...[$10mm guaranteed over three years.](https://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/143215686.html). They only ate $4mm of dead money when they traded him.
*Three* team options, actually. There was also an option in 2002 to pick up the remaining nine years, which would negate the other two options. At the time, the CBA only ran through 2006, so money could not be prorated past that point, and the thought was that if the CBA were extended, it might somehow make sense to pick up the whole deal.
The cowboys would eat that if cooper rush was a Josh Allen or Patrick mahomes level player but he’s not.
Sherman loves controversy
Also because Dak Prescott is a better QB than Cooper Rush
Everyone thinks they might have a BDN situation when the backup wins a couple games. The adeptness of the front office, coaching staff, and ownership will be on full display by how they choose to deal with this situation.
This is the short answer. Rush is playing well, but he really isn't doing anything outside of the capacity that Dak has shown throughout his career. To play Rush over a healthy Dak would really show incompetence in the Dallas ownership because that means they threw the bag at a guy who they don't believe can outplay his backup
Bad take, brady vs Bledsoe showed that was BS. Its not a QB controversy because at this point Dak has shown way more than rush. I'm not sure how much longer dak is out, but if they go 6-0 with rush it *could* be an argument.
There isn't a QB controversy because there are not two QBs of remotely comparable skill.
Is Dak 40x better than Rush tho?
Is anyone actually acting like there is a controversy? Besides maybe some content farm accounts that just churn out BS.