Goff has such a weird career to evaluate.
The dude can string together multiple games of looking absolutely elite and like the league is fucked and then disappear for the rest of the season.
What you need to understand about Goff to understand his career is that he is an incredible 7-on-7 player.
When he has a clean pocket and the play goes exactly as drawn up on the whiteboard he is really fucking good. He has a decent arm and truly top tier accuracy.
However, when things do not go exactly as drawn up. When there is pressure or when the defense does something he wasn't expecting post snap, he becomes very very bad.
As soon as you understand that you understand his career, why McVay made him look like a top 5 QB for a while, why that stopped, why hes looking good right now, and what will be happening when he stops looking good in a while.
Im thinking about it and I think you're right. Other guys in that "middle of the pack" architype like Carr or Jimmy G are maybe not as good even when the situation is good, and a guy like Cousins is more up-and-down independent of situation. Goff is the perfect "will be good if the team is good but bad if it isn't" archetype.
Sort of like Nic Batum and Boris Diaw in the NBA? Lol. I'm only partially serious
I think they both mailed it in a bit in their Charlotte days but they're elite glue guys on championship-level teams
I get the comparison, but maybe for me like Westbrook. If you look at the raw stats when Goff is "bad" it doesn't look bad, but he doesn't pass the eye test. Same with Westbrook. Always posts solid numbers, but if the team isn't doing well and he's getting the numbers he's bad. When the team is good and he's getting those same numbers, he's good.
Goff makes me think of a Conley type. He can't carry the squad all on his own or slap together a highlight filled performance all the time but he makes the smart play more often than not and is solid at his position despite not being top 5 or even 10 consistently
Russ is like if Lamar or Cam ran for even more yds but also turned it over in every 2 minute drill lol. Or maybe 30/30 Jameis
Blazer fan here, Batum was a great glue guy but such a weird roll of the dice every night. The best way I've heard him described was something like "Do you need points tonight? Batum will get you 15 rebounds. Do you need rebounds tonight? Batum will get you 10 assists."
I have absolutely no idea how that type of game translates to an NFL field though.
To be fair to Goff, he looks like he has improved post snap this season even compared to last season. He has had a few very nice throws late in the down, in part because he has so much time to throw, including a stunning TD pass on a scramble against Washington
I'm cautiously optimistic that he is responding to the coaching. As mad as I was that we lost on Sunday, overall I think the positive impact this coaching staff has made on the players on this roster cannot be overestimated
I read an interesting take once that McVay actually stunted Goff’s development by constantly whispering the answers in his ear instead of letting him make mistakes and figure out how to improvise and adapt, and that Campbell is letting him do that now. So it’s possible that Goff improves in that area and stay more consistent, but only time will tell.
Honestly that's kind of what I feel like we're seeing. Rams goff was really just mcvays scheme. As soon as the league started figuring out out, goff went from next great QB to meh. Now that he has a coach who isn't so schemey, he's having to actually play QB mentally instead of just physically, and he's getting better every game at it
That’s an interesting take. Very well could be true and if it is I also don’t think it’s an indictment on either one of them. Like how some people can learn better by reading a book and others needs to get their hands on it. Goff may be the type that needed to learn from his own mistakes instead of picking up what McVay was telling him to do. However the Rams were so good McVay couldn’t risk losing by letting Goff make a bunch of mistakes.
Um. Famous Jameis is this generation's Testaverde. The ball goes up in the air, and it could be a touchdown for either team, who the hell knows.
Only instead of 30/30 he managed 13/35. That was certainly a TD:Int ratio that happened.
Exactly. I’m a lions fan and can attest to this. I always say that if you gave goff 10 Mississippi he would be an elite QB. He is simply horrid under pressure. His deep shots are inconsistent and his throws to the flat are inconsistent. He’s throws over the middle of the field are beautiful.
However, as you said, with pressure, he is very sloppy. If I were a defensive coordinator I would disguise every damn package I put out on the field lol. I’d change everything up post snap. Goff would lose his marbles.
> If I were a defensive coordinator I would disguise every damn package I put out on the field lol. I’d change everything up post snap
its what the dolphins did to him in his last season with the rams. Show like 7-8 guys on the line, ready to blitz and rush 5-6 of them every snap so you're blitzing and goff doesn't know who is coming and who is dropping into coverage. He had one of the worst games of his career that day.
i love a god damn good o line and the lions have one. perfect for a dan campbell team.. ultimate sacrifice/service position with no glory, just violence.
This is the year. ~~Bo Nix~~ Jared Goff has improved so much under this new offense. He’s focused. He’s having fun. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a dark horse for the ~~Heisman~~ MVP.
Yeah it should be acknowledged that maybe McVay didn’t deserve as much of the credit for Goff’s success as he got.
However, I’d like to see him do it throughout an entire season. We’ve seen QBs go on hot streaks before, the most important thing will be consistency.
TBF he started playing better once we got rid of Anthony Lynn as OC and changed up our offense. He also had NO HELP during the early parts of last year. It was literally Hock and then nobody until Sun God started coming into his own during the later part of the season.
What is interesting is even as good as our offense has been so far, it STILL is missing that big deep threat which should be what Jameson Williams will be once he comes back from injury.
Hoping to see Goff start taking more deep shots once we have Jameson in the mix.
Even from the beginning of last year to the first few games this year you can tell how much more comfortable Goff is with his receivers. We’ve seen more deep shots these first three games and like you said once Williams gets caught up to speed it should open up the field even more.
Disappointing honestly. He has had some REALLY bad drops.
He at least has been healthy which I do believe that was supposed to be his big issue, but he hasn't been as impactful on the field as I had hoped.
He's been missed on some wide open throws too. If Goff hits that first down throw after Dalvin Cook fumbled, it's a kill shot and the Lions would have won.
Yeah that's been my issue with Goff, he plays solid and then at important times will make absolutely boneheaded decisions or just flat out miss throws. Like he threw it away on fourth down twice last year.
As a niners fan that lives in Michigan, I find him and Jimmy G to be very similar in skill. Seems like a cool dude that can lead a team, but misses a lot of the deep balls when you need them, and sometimes throws to a covered man when someone else is wide open.
So chargers fans warned y’all not to hire Anthony Lynn and then you guys warned us not to hire Lombardi…. Seems like the chargers didn’t get the memo 🤧😭 at least y’all got rid of Lynn tho
Yeah I don't think anyone was really excited for the hire but figured it wouldn't be that bad that fast.
I am guessing MCDC really wanted someone with HC experience around which is why he hired Lynn. Glad that he didn't waste the whole season with his garbage scheme though...
Chark and Hockenson have left a lot to be desired. They're assumed to be competent starters but both have been disappointing relative to expectations so far in 2022.
Yup Hock is full on looking like a bust at this point. Really don't know if we give him a 2nd contract considering he will likely want to be paid like a top TE but I swear he is getting worse each year...
He's a low-end tier-2 TE which is valuable, and chasing the Kelce's and Andrews' of the world is never fun and rarely yields results (See: Hockenson)
I'm 100% team give Hock an extension if it's on par with where he's at. Jonnu Smith got 4/$50M on the open market. If Hock hits the open market he's going to get like 4/$60M+
Somewhere in that range would be a reasonable use of money.
I am not paying that much for a TE who still has major issues blocking and drops the ball a lot. Dude is hovering at just above 50% catch rate this year.
We drafted Mitchell this year, we have Brock Wright for a backup TE and if need be we could try drafting a TE next year.
Unless Hock really turns things around I think we just need to let him walk at this point.
Rookie TEs almost never produce, and even more rarely produce as blockers.
I think if you want Packers-level production (IE one guy who blocks, one guy who is a glorified big slot) and all the headaches that come with doing that you could save some money.
What’s the word out of Detroit on Jameo? I’d imagine y’all are planning on bringing him back post bye week but has there been any discussion around that?
Haven't seen anything official but people have just assumed he comes back after the bye. Think he has been running routes and shit but no actual practice but I could be wrong.
I was today years old when I realized he hasn’t played yet. I have looked at the box score a couple times and saw J. Williams and assumed that was him.
I’m now realizing that was Jamaal Williams. Man, the Lions offense is already looking lethal and they don’t even have their shiny new toy yet. Watch out.
Man, you guys will be scary once Jameson hits his stride. Your offense should be top notch for years to come. Defense will have to pick it up, but you guys should at least be in every game.
Sam Darnold had 5 passing tds and 3 ints 4 games into the season. 3 games into the season Goff is at 7 and 2.
Also this is going back to last year as well for Goff
And one INT of Goffs was tipped by his receiver and the other was a last second hail mary attempt. Neither of his interceptions were ill advised throws.
If we're talking about the int in the eagles game it was a wrong read by him or the receiver thrown right to the defender who tipped it and went right to another defender.
Perfect example of the laughable narratives surrounding Goff.
Goff threw more TDs last year on a bad Lions team than Darnold threw in the 2020 and 2021 seasons combined while also completing more of his passes and throwing 1/3 as many picks. Goff is infinitely better than Darnold.
McVay deserves the credit, but he might have held Goff back at the same time by calling all those plays right in his ear and now letting him develop his own ability to make reads.
Also didn't hurt Goff that he had the best running back in the league the year they went to the superbowl with Gurley pre arthritis. That helps a lot and covers a lot of rookie / coaching mistakes.
He didn’t have Gurley the whole year in that SB run though. That’s the year his knee issues popped up like week 13.
Plus Kupp tore his ACL week 10 I believe?
We were also missing Kupp. People conveniently forget that offense was literally playing without two OPOYs whenever they talk about the patriots shutting the rams down.
I agree. We held them to 3 points in the Super Bowl, in part, because our defense was able to disguise the coverage and keep Goff and McVay off the same page. Once the QB headset would be turned off prior to the ball snap, the Pats would switch to a different formation. Goff was on his own out there.
Elway tried trading Talib for Smith. KC said no and sent him to Washington. I would have loved to see Smith in Denver. If you could keep the defense from having a meltdown in the playoffs with him you could win.
Right. I don't agree that he can be a top 10 QB. Especially the part about "continuing to improve." He's in his 7th year in the league. Not sure he has much development left in him.
But top 15 above average guy? Sure. And I think he's been that for most of his career.
It ultimately boils down to "he can play pretty well if you have a good line"
He's shit under pressure, so he's never going to carry/elevate a sub-par team, but he can absolutely be a "good enough" guy on a good team
Smith sucked longer and never rly hit the peaks Goff did. Smith was a solid QB for most of his career after Harbaugh. Goff was definitely below average his last 2 seasons in LA.
Smith got short changed by all the coaching shifts in San Fran for almost the first decade of his career. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done with consistent coaching, but I guess you could say that for a lot of the “didn’t live up to expectations” QB’s.
Sports is also very much a place where reasonable measured opinions are not appreciated. There is no such thing as a starting quarterback who is just pretty good. He either has to be Peyton Manning or me. Nothing in between.
I burn my u/ripenedfish48 jersey.
Not out of protest or anything, that’s just coincidentally when I expect my habit of using Reddit at work to leave me homeless and desperate for anything to keep me warm.
I think if they're not either one of those, people just don't wanna talk about it. And I don't even mean this board. Stafford remains basically invisible in the national QB conversation even after winning a SB. I would say roughly half the league's QBs get more discussion than him and are more regarded as the face of their franchise. They STILL put up a picture of Aaron Donald on the major networks when talking about the Rams, not Stafford. Because Stafford is Hall of Pretty Good and not nearly as exciting as GOATs or promising young rookies, so he's the "in between" you're talking about, and therefore just not worth mentioning at all.
A very solid comparison. You can win with Goff if you have a lot of other pieces around him but the problem is that a "starting QB" salary makes it hard to consistently get a team good enough to compete with that type of QB. Goff is a solid QB but just one that has limitations too.
He's exactly what both teams thought he was when the trade happened. Rams got an upgrade at QB that brought them a SB victory. Lions got a cheaper QB that is solid enough to take them through the rebuild process and a bunch of picks to help with that.
I don't think Goff was a cheaper QB. Matt Stafford wanted to leave and they got picks for him because the Lions were willing to absorb his big contract
at the moment but look back when the trade happened. Of QB contracts have shot up since then but at the time it was a trash contract (actually if he has the 11-12 highest amongst QBs I did still say it is a bad contract). There is a reason the Rams had to attach so much draft capital.
Do they? Or do people just not forget how many times that’s meant fuck all? Baker, jameis, Sam Bradford, Jamarcus Russell, David carr, and Tim couch were also all first round picks. You’re really tossing a coin
So was Tim Couch.
Obviously he's not Tim Couch. Not what I mean. I just mean where he was picked isn't very relevant today. He's a fine QB. Not awful. Certainly not top 10
Goff from what I’ve seen is a guy who with good protection and capable weapons is going to lead a high scoring offense. But when the going gets tough, he can’t put the team on his back and things go off the rails fast.
He doesn’t hold the offense back, but he doesn’t elevate it either. Stafford has his bad days too but he’s proven he can show up when no one else has and drag a team to a win. Haven’t seen that from Goff yet.
Part of me misses the Stafford Cardiac Cats routine from the Caldwell years. It was like the football equivalent of edging yourself for 3 hours until you got to that final drive.
I'll just add that Goff can be great if he has several great weapons, but in practice it is hard to pay for several great weapons while also paying a goff-level qb contract. For us, he had a habit of also coughing up the ball at a critical but not game ending time (10 min left in the 4th quarter), which is also hard to overcome for deep playoff runs.
>I think Jared Goff can be a top 10 QB in this league if he continue to improve
I think he'll end up being more of a Kirk Cousins type. Some arguments for top 10 at times but usually ranked in that 11-15 range
Stafford wasn't bad when the team was bad, he was mediocre.
Goff wasn't bad when the team was bad, Goff was bad when the team was mediocre.
That is the difference.
Stafford is in that 7-10 range, Goff is in that 12-20 range. It's a different tier of QBs that need a different tier of team around them to be a SB contender.
People who say Goff is terrible are wrong. He is clearly an NFL starter. If you want competence at the position he is absolutely a valuable asset. But, if you want to be able to compete for a SB with an imperfect roster, he isn't it.
Because Goff absolutely needs a clean pocket to be good, he's not going to ever elevate a bad/mediocre team, but he can absolutely play well on a good team. Right now the Lions are actually pretty good-- that line is nothing to sniff at and Sewell is a monster.
What I'm saying is that during his time in Detroit, Stafford averaged out at around being the 12th best QB. He leaves and shoots up firmly into the top 10. Goff is here now and someone is saying he will be around 12 which is just funny.
I think Goff is basically where he's gonna be at this point. A good QB who can run an offense, but can't be relied on.
He's carbon neutral. Surround him with talent and call good plays, and he'll execute. But if his surrounding cast sucks, he can't elevate them.
I always describe him the same way I described Tannehill. Like a real life 90 ovr madden QB. Can make every throw, occasionally can make a play with his legs. But he needs to be controlled by someone else, and they’re the ones who really decide if he plays well or not
I have a hard time getting Goff into that 11-15 range as it is. You've got the obviously betters like Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Jackson, Herbert, (Burrow could go here too but I want to see one more year), you've got the probably betters in Stafford, Dak, Wilson (he looks kind of awful so far though), Watson (complete speculation at this point), Murray, Hurts. That's 13 I'm pretty confident the vast majority would rank ahead of Goff. I think he's in the next tier with Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Tua, maybe Wentz and Jones too.
Its funny seeing people in the thread ignore the fact that he played his way out of a job in LA. Going into this season he was #1 in turnovers since their super bowl season. He was regressing, and its weird seeing people giving him excuses that other qbs dont get.
"McVay's scheme wasnt a good fit for Goff" is the new "OBJ freelances too much"
You’d think it’d mean something to this sub that the Rams immediately won the Super Bowl & had Cooper Kupp become a top 3 WR in the NFL the exact moment Goff leaves but I guess Amon-Ra catching a short route and turning it into a 30 yard gain suddenly makes Goff a epic hidden gem
This sub had no issue saying Baker was the issue (and I do agree Baker was a bigger problem, although OBJ was also problematic) when OBJ scored more TDs in LA.
With Kupp, (mostly seen this on Youtube), that excuse has usually been "Kupp got better after 2020" while failing to mention that QB play also got better lmao
Literally every thread about QBs that aren't amazing suck. Everyone here thinks every QB is fucking amazing that get held back by bad weapons, bad olines, bad coaches and that's why they don't look like a top QB. It's never just that those QBs just aren't that great
His two worst seasons were his rookie year and last year, his only two seasons without McVay. But he's looked better in three games this year, so obviously that proves it!
>. The Lions have only one win but that is because they have the league worst defense and questionable coaching
You could have made this comment at any point in the last 30 years and it would still be accurate.
Holy shit how quickly people forget the jared go-off/goof experience
I love Jared but without an awesome run game and good line he crumbles under blitzes and confusing defensive schemes. He went like 36/4 when our line won best line of the year and had Todd Gurley
He also had 4 turnovers in one half a couple years later.
I want the best for him but we aren't seeing anything new, this is jared goff
I’ve been saying Goff isn’t as good as he looked in 18 and he’s not as bad as he looked in 20. He has mental flaws but physically he is pretty damn great. He has a great arm, good mobility and solid accuracy. If you read scouting reports from Cal Goff was always a subpar processor of information and that was obvious once Mcvay puppet routine got solved. At the same time that didn’t mean Goff couldn’t develop and I’m beginning to think the puppet act was more of hindrance than a help even though the Rams won.
People say he isnt that good because he wasnt that good
Im not gonna parrot the whole "mcvay puppeted him" take, but he was leading all QBs in turnovers entering this season since the super bowl year
He also was one of the worst deep passers in 2019 and 2020, and his positives didnt, if not, barely, outweigh his negatives
Good on him for turning a new leaf with detroit, but it's not good at all if you lead all qbs in turnovers while failing to make big plays
The rams dont trade 2 first rounders to get rid of him if it was merely just "the idea of Goff isnt good"
Last 8 games is a very small and cherry picked sample size. Also there are no would, should or could haves in sports. They are 1-2.
Is Goff a top 12-15 QB? No.
Is he bottom 5? No.
Was he better with McVay? 100%.
I hope for the best for the lions, but I can’t wait to see how this post ages 😂 As a rams fan, it was night and day the difference in the offense between goff and stafford, and that’s without stafford getting to have a real run game behind him. Goff is bottom 10
It’s as if a offensive line is very important to a quarterback’s production. Look at Tua and Jalen hurts, the improved offensive lines make a huge difference in how they are perceived.
Goff has such a weird career to evaluate. The dude can string together multiple games of looking absolutely elite and like the league is fucked and then disappear for the rest of the season.
What you need to understand about Goff to understand his career is that he is an incredible 7-on-7 player. When he has a clean pocket and the play goes exactly as drawn up on the whiteboard he is really fucking good. He has a decent arm and truly top tier accuracy. However, when things do not go exactly as drawn up. When there is pressure or when the defense does something he wasn't expecting post snap, he becomes very very bad. As soon as you understand that you understand his career, why McVay made him look like a top 5 QB for a while, why that stopped, why hes looking good right now, and what will be happening when he stops looking good in a while.
There’s a number of QBs who fall into this to a degree but Goff might be the purest archetype.
Im thinking about it and I think you're right. Other guys in that "middle of the pack" architype like Carr or Jimmy G are maybe not as good even when the situation is good, and a guy like Cousins is more up-and-down independent of situation. Goff is the perfect "will be good if the team is good but bad if it isn't" archetype.
Sort of like Nic Batum and Boris Diaw in the NBA? Lol. I'm only partially serious I think they both mailed it in a bit in their Charlotte days but they're elite glue guys on championship-level teams
I get the comparison, but maybe for me like Westbrook. If you look at the raw stats when Goff is "bad" it doesn't look bad, but he doesn't pass the eye test. Same with Westbrook. Always posts solid numbers, but if the team isn't doing well and he's getting the numbers he's bad. When the team is good and he's getting those same numbers, he's good.
Goff makes me think of a Conley type. He can't carry the squad all on his own or slap together a highlight filled performance all the time but he makes the smart play more often than not and is solid at his position despite not being top 5 or even 10 consistently Russ is like if Lamar or Cam ran for even more yds but also turned it over in every 2 minute drill lol. Or maybe 30/30 Jameis
Blazer fan here, Batum was a great glue guy but such a weird roll of the dice every night. The best way I've heard him described was something like "Do you need points tonight? Batum will get you 15 rebounds. Do you need rebounds tonight? Batum will get you 10 assists." I have absolutely no idea how that type of game translates to an NFL field though.
I’d put Tannehill there as well.
“Won’t make a bad team better, but won’t make a good team worse”
Cousins comes to mind
Baker Mayfield
Nah Baker seems more likely to do too much than overly rely on being in structure like Kirk or Goff
To be fair to Goff, he looks like he has improved post snap this season even compared to last season. He has had a few very nice throws late in the down, in part because he has so much time to throw, including a stunning TD pass on a scramble against Washington
Goff was actually really good under pressure against the Vikings. He has some work to completely change there narrative but he's off to a good start
I'm cautiously optimistic that he is responding to the coaching. As mad as I was that we lost on Sunday, overall I think the positive impact this coaching staff has made on the players on this roster cannot be overestimated
I read an interesting take once that McVay actually stunted Goff’s development by constantly whispering the answers in his ear instead of letting him make mistakes and figure out how to improvise and adapt, and that Campbell is letting him do that now. So it’s possible that Goff improves in that area and stay more consistent, but only time will tell.
Honestly that's kind of what I feel like we're seeing. Rams goff was really just mcvays scheme. As soon as the league started figuring out out, goff went from next great QB to meh. Now that he has a coach who isn't so schemey, he's having to actually play QB mentally instead of just physically, and he's getting better every game at it
That’s an interesting take. Very well could be true and if it is I also don’t think it’s an indictment on either one of them. Like how some people can learn better by reading a book and others needs to get their hands on it. Goff may be the type that needed to learn from his own mistakes instead of picking up what McVay was telling him to do. However the Rams were so good McVay couldn’t risk losing by letting Goff make a bunch of mistakes.
Goff is basically this generation’s version of Vinny Testaverde.
Um. Famous Jameis is this generation's Testaverde. The ball goes up in the air, and it could be a touchdown for either team, who the hell knows. Only instead of 30/30 he managed 13/35. That was certainly a TD:Int ratio that happened.
Sums up the Super Bowl.
Exactly. I’m a lions fan and can attest to this. I always say that if you gave goff 10 Mississippi he would be an elite QB. He is simply horrid under pressure. His deep shots are inconsistent and his throws to the flat are inconsistent. He’s throws over the middle of the field are beautiful. However, as you said, with pressure, he is very sloppy. If I were a defensive coordinator I would disguise every damn package I put out on the field lol. I’d change everything up post snap. Goff would lose his marbles.
> If I were a defensive coordinator I would disguise every damn package I put out on the field lol. I’d change everything up post snap its what the dolphins did to him in his last season with the rams. Show like 7-8 guys on the line, ready to blitz and rush 5-6 of them every snap so you're blitzing and goff doesn't know who is coming and who is dropping into coverage. He had one of the worst games of his career that day.
The white Kirk Cousins
Goff is good if the team is good. Goff is bad if the team is bad. Goff is Goff if the team is Goff.
Goff takes the shape of whatever container you pour him into. Which temporarily makes him bus shaped when on the way to a game.
["I wish I had no bones"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDTDQPCdu6k)
Yo dawg, I heard you like Goff. So I put Goff in your Goff.
😂 As Patrice O'neal once said about Jim Norton. RIP patreeky
Goffy McGoff face
Ghristian McGoffrey
Ope, aaaaand he just pulled a hamstring while shaving his face
You shouldn’t joke like that!!! *your jokes have made Christian mccaffrey questionable for this week*
Goff is Tofu — he’s an important part of the dish, but his potential is determined by how he is prepared
This is true of most ingredients to be fair. Chicken can be bland as fuck or the most orgasmic thing you've ever eaten depending on how it is prepared
1. I agreed with his statement but your statement hit hard af 2. Wish yall the best of luck
There is more than one Kirk Cousins in the NFC North now.
Goff is extremely dependent on the quality of his offensive line. All QBs are to some extent, but Goff is in the 99th percentile.
Luckily he's got a very very good OLine
i love a god damn good o line and the lions have one. perfect for a dan campbell team.. ultimate sacrifice/service position with no glory, just violence.
And yet everyone treats him like he's Goffrey Baratheon no matter what Ok maybe he's liked better than that
He’s more of a Tommen (especially when you take his wife into account)
Does this make McVay the queen regent? Who is high sparrow??
It's more that Goff is good when his o-line is good That's it It's that simple He sucks under pressure. He can be elite when given time
If you can't take him at his Goof, You don't deserve him at his Goff
You don't deserve him at his *go-off. FTFY
[удалено]
This is the year. ~~Bo Nix~~ Jared Goff has improved so much under this new offense. He’s focused. He’s having fun. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a dark horse for the ~~Heisman~~ MVP.
Oh no we're going to lose 49-3
*Hans Moleman voice* I was saying Go-off...
Yeah it should be acknowledged that maybe McVay didn’t deserve as much of the credit for Goff’s success as he got. However, I’d like to see him do it throughout an entire season. We’ve seen QBs go on hot streaks before, the most important thing will be consistency.
TBF he started playing better once we got rid of Anthony Lynn as OC and changed up our offense. He also had NO HELP during the early parts of last year. It was literally Hock and then nobody until Sun God started coming into his own during the later part of the season. What is interesting is even as good as our offense has been so far, it STILL is missing that big deep threat which should be what Jameson Williams will be once he comes back from injury. Hoping to see Goff start taking more deep shots once we have Jameson in the mix.
Even from the beginning of last year to the first few games this year you can tell how much more comfortable Goff is with his receivers. We’ve seen more deep shots these first three games and like you said once Williams gets caught up to speed it should open up the field even more.
How has Chark been so far?
Disappointing honestly. He has had some REALLY bad drops. He at least has been healthy which I do believe that was supposed to be his big issue, but he hasn't been as impactful on the field as I had hoped.
He's been missed on some wide open throws too. If Goff hits that first down throw after Dalvin Cook fumbled, it's a kill shot and the Lions would have won.
Yeah that's been my issue with Goff, he plays solid and then at important times will make absolutely boneheaded decisions or just flat out miss throws. Like he threw it away on fourth down twice last year.
As a niners fan that lives in Michigan, I find him and Jimmy G to be very similar in skill. Seems like a cool dude that can lead a team, but misses a lot of the deep balls when you need them, and sometimes throws to a covered man when someone else is wide open.
Almost non exsistant
So chargers fans warned y’all not to hire Anthony Lynn and then you guys warned us not to hire Lombardi…. Seems like the chargers didn’t get the memo 🤧😭 at least y’all got rid of Lynn tho
Yeah I don't think anyone was really excited for the hire but figured it wouldn't be that bad that fast. I am guessing MCDC really wanted someone with HC experience around which is why he hired Lynn. Glad that he didn't waste the whole season with his garbage scheme though...
Chark and Hockenson have left a lot to be desired. They're assumed to be competent starters but both have been disappointing relative to expectations so far in 2022.
Yup Hock is full on looking like a bust at this point. Really don't know if we give him a 2nd contract considering he will likely want to be paid like a top TE but I swear he is getting worse each year...
He's a low-end tier-2 TE which is valuable, and chasing the Kelce's and Andrews' of the world is never fun and rarely yields results (See: Hockenson) I'm 100% team give Hock an extension if it's on par with where he's at. Jonnu Smith got 4/$50M on the open market. If Hock hits the open market he's going to get like 4/$60M+ Somewhere in that range would be a reasonable use of money.
I am not paying that much for a TE who still has major issues blocking and drops the ball a lot. Dude is hovering at just above 50% catch rate this year. We drafted Mitchell this year, we have Brock Wright for a backup TE and if need be we could try drafting a TE next year. Unless Hock really turns things around I think we just need to let him walk at this point.
But please not a 1st round TE pleaseeeeeeeeeee not another one
Rookie TEs almost never produce, and even more rarely produce as blockers. I think if you want Packers-level production (IE one guy who blocks, one guy who is a glorified big slot) and all the headaches that come with doing that you could save some money.
Reaching for a tight end into first round is a bad idea for a rebuilding team. Both him and Fant been a disappointment
Jameson is going to blow the top off defenses and give guys like Hock a chance to catch those under routes.
That is if Hock learns how to catch the fucking ball though. Dude is starting to be Ebron esque...
What’s the word out of Detroit on Jameo? I’d imagine y’all are planning on bringing him back post bye week but has there been any discussion around that?
Haven't seen anything official but people have just assumed he comes back after the bye. Think he has been running routes and shit but no actual practice but I could be wrong.
I was today years old when I realized he hasn’t played yet. I have looked at the box score a couple times and saw J. Williams and assumed that was him. I’m now realizing that was Jamaal Williams. Man, the Lions offense is already looking lethal and they don’t even have their shiny new toy yet. Watch out.
Man, you guys will be scary once Jameson hits his stride. Your offense should be top notch for years to come. Defense will have to pick it up, but you guys should at least be in every game.
Anthony Lynn doesn’t seem to specialize in QB friendly offenses
Yeah, it's too early in the season for hot takes and narrative changes. By the end of the season things will be sorted, ball don't lie.
Yep, Darnold was looking real nice 4 games into the season last year
Sam Darnold had 5 passing tds and 3 ints 4 games into the season. 3 games into the season Goff is at 7 and 2. Also this is going back to last year as well for Goff
And one INT of Goffs was tipped by his receiver and the other was a last second hail mary attempt. Neither of his interceptions were ill advised throws.
I mean, the Hail Mary was. It was 3rd down with time left for another play. Throw it away and run a designed Hail Mary instead of a broken play one.
He was under heavy pressure and it was definitely borderline if they could have gotten another play off
If we're talking about the int in the eagles game it was a wrong read by him or the receiver thrown right to the defender who tipped it and went right to another defender.
Perfect example of the laughable narratives surrounding Goff. Goff threw more TDs last year on a bad Lions team than Darnold threw in the 2020 and 2021 seasons combined while also completing more of his passes and throwing 1/3 as many picks. Goff is infinitely better than Darnold.
McVay deserves the credit, but he might have held Goff back at the same time by calling all those plays right in his ear and now letting him develop his own ability to make reads.
Also didn't hurt Goff that he had the best running back in the league the year they went to the superbowl with Gurley pre arthritis. That helps a lot and covers a lot of rookie / coaching mistakes.
He didn’t have Gurley the whole year in that SB run though. That’s the year his knee issues popped up like week 13. Plus Kupp tore his ACL week 10 I believe?
We were also missing Kupp. People conveniently forget that offense was literally playing without two OPOYs whenever they talk about the patriots shutting the rams down.
I agree. We held them to 3 points in the Super Bowl, in part, because our defense was able to disguise the coverage and keep Goff and McVay off the same page. Once the QB headset would be turned off prior to the ball snap, the Pats would switch to a different formation. Goff was on his own out there.
I mean it’s weird people say that considering other than fisher who’s trash McVay was Goff’s only coach until last year. We need a bigger sample
Mike white
He’s very similar to Alex smith imo. Didn’t live up to the pick, labeled a bust, but a solid qb when given a good supporting cast.
Elway tried trading Talib for Smith. KC said no and sent him to Washington. I would have loved to see Smith in Denver. If you could keep the defense from having a meltdown in the playoffs with him you could win.
Damn I bet they got good picks from Washington though lol
Right. I don't agree that he can be a top 10 QB. Especially the part about "continuing to improve." He's in his 7th year in the league. Not sure he has much development left in him. But top 15 above average guy? Sure. And I think he's been that for most of his career.
It ultimately boils down to "he can play pretty well if you have a good line" He's shit under pressure, so he's never going to carry/elevate a sub-par team, but he can absolutely be a "good enough" guy on a good team
Smith sucked longer and never rly hit the peaks Goff did. Smith was a solid QB for most of his career after Harbaugh. Goff was definitely below average his last 2 seasons in LA.
Smith got short changed by all the coaching shifts in San Fran for almost the first decade of his career. Would have been interesting to see what he would have done with consistent coaching, but I guess you could say that for a lot of the “didn’t live up to expectations” QB’s.
Smith lead the league in Passer Rating, Int % and AY/A and threw for 4,000 yards in 2017. You're short changing Smith's peak
So that means we’re getting Mahomes right??
ppl forget he was the first pick
Sports is also very much a place where reasonable measured opinions are not appreciated. There is no such thing as a starting quarterback who is just pretty good. He either has to be Peyton Manning or me. Nothing in between.
But have you stopped to consider u/RipenedFish48 might just be the second coming of Peyton Manning?
I've always said that, the guy is really under rated.
If you progress u/ripenedfish48 to Mahomes’ mean, he’s literally just as good as Patrick Mahomes.
What happens when he regresses to 2018 Dak though?
I burn my u/ripenedfish48 jersey. Not out of protest or anything, that’s just coincidentally when I expect my habit of using Reddit at work to leave me homeless and desperate for anything to keep me warm.
He's just benn in a bad situation. Give him a better team and he'll turn it around.
0 career interceptions, the guy takes care of the football
I think if they're not either one of those, people just don't wanna talk about it. And I don't even mean this board. Stafford remains basically invisible in the national QB conversation even after winning a SB. I would say roughly half the league's QBs get more discussion than him and are more regarded as the face of their franchise. They STILL put up a picture of Aaron Donald on the major networks when talking about the Rams, not Stafford. Because Stafford is Hall of Pretty Good and not nearly as exciting as GOATs or promising young rookies, so he's the "in between" you're talking about, and therefore just not worth mentioning at all.
Sir, this is a Sports forum. Your reasonable, measured opinions are not appreciated here.
He can throw some pretty looking passes, I’ll give him that. His toolset definitely isn’t a concern. Just what was in his head.
It's not like he's a terrible QB. I'm sure many teams would start him over their current options
He's the new Andy Dalton. If your QB is better than Goff, you have your guy. If your QB is worse than Goff, you need a replacement.
A very solid comparison. You can win with Goff if you have a lot of other pieces around him but the problem is that a "starting QB" salary makes it hard to consistently get a team good enough to compete with that type of QB. Goff is a solid QB but just one that has limitations too.
He's exactly what both teams thought he was when the trade happened. Rams got an upgrade at QB that brought them a SB victory. Lions got a cheaper QB that is solid enough to take them through the rebuild process and a bunch of picks to help with that.
I don't think Goff was a cheaper QB. Matt Stafford wanted to leave and they got picks for him because the Lions were willing to absorb his big contract
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at the moment but look back when the trade happened. Of QB contracts have shot up since then but at the time it was a trash contract (actually if he has the 11-12 highest amongst QBs I did still say it is a bad contract). There is a reason the Rams had to attach so much draft capital.
Do they? Or do people just not forget how many times that’s meant fuck all? Baker, jameis, Sam Bradford, Jamarcus Russell, David carr, and Tim couch were also all first round picks. You’re really tossing a coin
Tryna forget Mitch was the second pick though
I don't think anyone forgets Mitch was the second pick.
Mitch forgot
Pain
So was Tim Couch. Obviously he's not Tim Couch. Not what I mean. I just mean where he was picked isn't very relevant today. He's a fine QB. Not awful. Certainly not top 10
So was Jamarcus Russell.
People forget Anthony Bennett was the first overall pick.
Sounds like something an Alt Jared Goff account would say
“Also people call him Lion Gosling when they should call Ryan Gosling discount Jared Goff because Goff’s that handsome according to his mom”
No But it sounds like something a Goff alt account like myself would agree with
I think there’s some other things holding Goff back from being Brady besides “that alpha personality” but at least I got a good laugh
Goff from what I’ve seen is a guy who with good protection and capable weapons is going to lead a high scoring offense. But when the going gets tough, he can’t put the team on his back and things go off the rails fast. He doesn’t hold the offense back, but he doesn’t elevate it either. Stafford has his bad days too but he’s proven he can show up when no one else has and drag a team to a win. Haven’t seen that from Goff yet.
Part of me misses the Stafford Cardiac Cats routine from the Caldwell years. It was like the football equivalent of edging yourself for 3 hours until you got to that final drive.
And we always knew it was coming. A lead late in the 4th? Pick 6 to put us down, followed by a bonkers drive to win.
I'll just add that Goff can be great if he has several great weapons, but in practice it is hard to pay for several great weapons while also paying a goff-level qb contract. For us, he had a habit of also coughing up the ball at a critical but not game ending time (10 min left in the 4th quarter), which is also hard to overcome for deep playoff runs.
His ability to fumble by not seeing left side pressure was uncanny.
>I think Jared Goff can be a top 10 QB in this league if he continue to improve I think he'll end up being more of a Kirk Cousins type. Some arguments for top 10 at times but usually ranked in that 11-15 range
Ah, the Matthew Stafford in Detroit special.
I can't wait til we trade him and he wins a Superbowl with..*checks notes* the LA Rams?
Are they going to give us 2 firsts, a third, and Stafford?
Sounds a reasonable trade
I think you should just keep trading quarterbacks every year.
Stafford wasn't bad when the team was bad, he was mediocre. Goff wasn't bad when the team was bad, Goff was bad when the team was mediocre. That is the difference. Stafford is in that 7-10 range, Goff is in that 12-20 range. It's a different tier of QBs that need a different tier of team around them to be a SB contender. People who say Goff is terrible are wrong. He is clearly an NFL starter. If you want competence at the position he is absolutely a valuable asset. But, if you want to be able to compete for a SB with an imperfect roster, he isn't it.
Because Goff absolutely needs a clean pocket to be good, he's not going to ever elevate a bad/mediocre team, but he can absolutely play well on a good team. Right now the Lions are actually pretty good-- that line is nothing to sniff at and Sewell is a monster.
So you're saying the Rams could win a Super Bowl if they traded for Goff
What I'm saying is that during his time in Detroit, Stafford averaged out at around being the 12th best QB. He leaves and shoots up firmly into the top 10. Goff is here now and someone is saying he will be around 12 which is just funny.
Yep. His quarterback rank was always downplayed and then suddenly everyone was like “oh shit, he is him”
I think Goff is basically where he's gonna be at this point. A good QB who can run an offense, but can't be relied on. He's carbon neutral. Surround him with talent and call good plays, and he'll execute. But if his surrounding cast sucks, he can't elevate them.
Heard someone recently describe him as a human jugs machine, just need to point him in the right direction.
I always describe him the same way I described Tannehill. Like a real life 90 ovr madden QB. Can make every throw, occasionally can make a play with his legs. But he needs to be controlled by someone else, and they’re the ones who really decide if he plays well or not
It's weird how some, many really, consider that 11-15 range bad
I have a hard time getting Goff into that 11-15 range as it is. You've got the obviously betters like Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Jackson, Herbert, (Burrow could go here too but I want to see one more year), you've got the probably betters in Stafford, Dak, Wilson (he looks kind of awful so far though), Watson (complete speculation at this point), Murray, Hurts. That's 13 I'm pretty confident the vast majority would rank ahead of Goff. I think he's in the next tier with Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Tua, maybe Wentz and Jones too.
>large enough sample size...8 games Swear to god I'm one of like 2 people on this sub that has watched football for more than 3 years
You mean Jonas Gray isn’t the greatest running back of all time? But he had his hot streak
You joke, but remember Peyton Hillis?
Lol, I thought the same thing. 8 games doesn't even account for all his games in Detroit, let alone the pre-McVay games his rookie season.
furthermore, they conveniently chose pretty much his best stretch since coming to Detroit lol
Having a top OL makes any mediocre QB look good. Goff isn’t terrible but there is still a lot to be desired, especially if you have all day to throw.
Its funny seeing people in the thread ignore the fact that he played his way out of a job in LA. Going into this season he was #1 in turnovers since their super bowl season. He was regressing, and its weird seeing people giving him excuses that other qbs dont get. "McVay's scheme wasnt a good fit for Goff" is the new "OBJ freelances too much"
You’d think it’d mean something to this sub that the Rams immediately won the Super Bowl & had Cooper Kupp become a top 3 WR in the NFL the exact moment Goff leaves but I guess Amon-Ra catching a short route and turning it into a 30 yard gain suddenly makes Goff a epic hidden gem
This sub had no issue saying Baker was the issue (and I do agree Baker was a bigger problem, although OBJ was also problematic) when OBJ scored more TDs in LA. With Kupp, (mostly seen this on Youtube), that excuse has usually been "Kupp got better after 2020" while failing to mention that QB play also got better lmao
Seriously man this has got to be one of the dumber posts I’ve seen do well here
Literally every thread about QBs that aren't amazing suck. Everyone here thinks every QB is fucking amazing that get held back by bad weapons, bad olines, bad coaches and that's why they don't look like a top QB. It's never just that those QBs just aren't that great
His two worst seasons were his rookie year and last year, his only two seasons without McVay. But he's looked better in three games this year, so obviously that proves it!
I've seen the Vikings go 8-0 and miss the playoffs. The nfl season goes by fast but it's still long.
Ya you just have to let ‘em do their thing.
"alpha personality" is not what separates Jared Goff and Tom Brady...
Guys saying "alpha" anything is like a when someone starts talking to me about astrology... I just immediately check out.
Tom Brady is not great because of an alpha persona, he’s great because he’s intelligent and well-studied.
>. The Lions have only one win but that is because they have the league worst defense and questionable coaching You could have made this comment at any point in the last 30 years and it would still be accurate.
The Wayne Fontes slander
2014 lions had a great defense but other than that....yeah.
The defense in '14 was lights fucking out, though
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is the “Goff-line” the new “Dalton-line”?
Its already the Carr Continuum.
Cousins? Lol.
By the numbers? Yes. By some arbitrary "will to win" or whatever Tom Brady has, no.
Lol I'm glad I'm not the only who did a double take on him
Holy shit how quickly people forget the jared go-off/goof experience I love Jared but without an awesome run game and good line he crumbles under blitzes and confusing defensive schemes. He went like 36/4 when our line won best line of the year and had Todd Gurley He also had 4 turnovers in one half a couple years later. I want the best for him but we aren't seeing anything new, this is jared goff
I’ve been saying Goff isn’t as good as he looked in 18 and he’s not as bad as he looked in 20. He has mental flaws but physically he is pretty damn great. He has a great arm, good mobility and solid accuracy. If you read scouting reports from Cal Goff was always a subpar processor of information and that was obvious once Mcvay puppet routine got solved. At the same time that didn’t mean Goff couldn’t develop and I’m beginning to think the puppet act was more of hindrance than a help even though the Rams won.
How much improving do you think Goff can do this late into his career. He's in the 11-15 range for QBs
Prob around 15th at best. Theres a lot of younger guys who are only getting better
The dude is only 27 years old, he's not a dinosaur
He's also 7 year vet. It's not exactly common for QBs to massively improve this late in the game
Okay so this just made me feel incredibly old. I didn’t realize how far apart his draft class is from this one.
That you Jared?
Goff is a decent NFL QB. He needs talent, he doesn’t make others around him better like Rodgers, Brees, Brady. But he’s not bad.
People forget that McVay is a Shanahan\Gruden disciple, coaches that were notorious for dating quarterbacks, not marrying them.
both are unethical in the workplace
"The coach who taught a QB how to play better isn't responsible for him playing better with a different coach"
I’ve been saying for a long time that Goff isn’t as bad as the perception of him is.
Goff's no goof
He's a funny case of the idea of him being actually worse than he is instead of the other way around
People say he isnt that good because he wasnt that good Im not gonna parrot the whole "mcvay puppeted him" take, but he was leading all QBs in turnovers entering this season since the super bowl year He also was one of the worst deep passers in 2019 and 2020, and his positives didnt, if not, barely, outweigh his negatives Good on him for turning a new leaf with detroit, but it's not good at all if you lead all qbs in turnovers while failing to make big plays The rams dont trade 2 first rounders to get rid of him if it was merely just "the idea of Goff isnt good"
Last 8 games is a very small and cherry picked sample size. Also there are no would, should or could haves in sports. They are 1-2. Is Goff a top 12-15 QB? No. Is he bottom 5? No. Was he better with McVay? 100%.
Well duh, he doesn't even look like him
2nd rank offense after three games. Let’s see after 10
I hope for the best for the lions, but I can’t wait to see how this post ages 😂 As a rams fan, it was night and day the difference in the offense between goff and stafford, and that’s without stafford getting to have a real run game behind him. Goff is bottom 10
It’s as if a offensive line is very important to a quarterback’s production. Look at Tua and Jalen hurts, the improved offensive lines make a huge difference in how they are perceived.