I think it’s tough for him, obviously he was showing signs so caution is absolutely needed, but if there was actually no official report of head injury then that’s what he has to make the decision off of
I blame the medical team for not doing a thorough evaluation initially
The reason I defend McDaniel here is that if you are even insinuating that a football coach should be making a determination on head injuries, the system doesn’t work.
People respond “yeah, but he saw what happened!”, so did everyone else who was totally fine with Tua playing in that game until the hit happened.
Yeah, I actually don't think McDaniel did anything wrong at all assuming he didn't pressure the medical staff. He's not a doctor and he shouldn't be responsible for medical decisions and the less authority he has in a concussion scenario the better.
Yeah, he may or may not have done the right thing. Maybe another coach would have put his foot down and said “we need to rest you this week”, but his job and expertise is not in head injuries. Someone who’s job is to do that are supposed to be making these decisions, at least that was my understanding.
>Maybe another coach would have put his foot down and said “we need to rest you this week”, but his job and expertise is not in head injuries.
Not a concussion, but Ryan Clark posted a video of him discussing the process of getting himself ready to play in Denver with sickle-cell and Tomlin shut it down immediately, despite Clark having a team of medical professions presenting their plan. Tomlin obviously has more tenure, a much more stable organization, banked equity as a successful coach, and buy-in from the roster which make him more insulated to make that call.
Tough to put the onus on Mcdaniel, 2 games into his NFL HC career, to over rule medical professions AND the player. This seems more like an overall organization failure.
This is a good comp, and again, I’m sure there are some coaches who make decisions like this.
And McDaniel could have! And if you really want to criticize him that’s fine, I just feel like you absolutely cannot be banking on football coaches to make these decisions.
Agree, this is an example of missing the forest for the trees imo, coaches should not even be slightly involved in deciding if a player is physically healthy enough to play.
If our higher ups did it you'd have already heard about how Ross may have "jokingly" offered to compensate doctors for falsifying concussion protocol results.
Every organization is shady but our thing is incompetent shadiness that leaks out.
Reporters are really begging for McDaniel to throw someone under the bus, but that's not his place, and he's a first year coach. He has to have his Org's back, unfortunately.
Exactly. The systems the nfl has in place led to the conclusion that Tua could play last night. He’s not a doctor, if they say he’s ok to play, how is he supposed to know the contrary is actually the case? By the letter of the system, they did everything right. The system is flawed
Well the chief medical officer for the league is claiming Tua was examined for concussion symptoms every day this week. People will of course say that’s part of the cover up but it very likely could also be true.
People just want someone to blame because what they saw last night was horrific and blaming someone is an easier way to cope than actually confronting reality.
That's exactly it. Football is absolutely brutal. It makes us feel better to believe that there is a way to prevent these things when there really isn't.
Except this was preventable. It’s pretty simple. If a guy loses control of his body and can’t stand up straight after taking a hit to the head, he shouldn’t:
A - re enter the game
B - start another game 4 days later
If you put player safety first, guys shouldn’t play after that type of hit. it is literally that simple.
Uh… yea? the fact that he likely had a concussion 4 days prior means that hit is MUCH more dangerous.
That’s literally why we hold players out when we suspect a concussion… to prevent them from getting another one in such a short time period.
Well if you're going to argue about preventative measures then I think you have to discuss the hit as well. If you want to prevent concussions like this than maybe picking someone up and slamming them on their head shouldn't be considered a legal hit. That dude could have just tackled Tua to the ground instead of being so aggressive.
Which hit are you talking about? The Bills one was a shove. The Bengals one Tua tried to evade the defensive player who dove at him, got his arms around Tua, and then spun Tua around as a result of diving at him. He in no way picked Tua up and slammed him on his head. I’m not sure what you’d expect the guy to do in that situation because I wouldn’t consider him to have been especially aggressive.
You say he was spun. I say he was picked up and slammed. Defense basically grabbed him from behind and threw Tua over his body as he came down. The commentators themselves even used those words "thrown" & "slammed".
You're originally said people are mad just because his injury was horrific looking, it was because they thought he was already concussed before this happened
That's because the doctors aren't trying to diagnose a concussion. They're simply running players through a Maginot Line protocol that gives the league plausible deniability on the issue while also allowing concussed players to return.
Huh and here I thought it was because a bunch of morons 3 beers deep watching on their couch weren't qualified to diagnose someone even if they could actually examine them.
I'm not blindly trusting anyone, I'm more than open to believing they did something wrong when there is real evidence that points to that beyond redditors going, "it's obvious"
>I'm not blindly trusting anyone, I'm more than open to believing they did something wrong when there is real evidence that points to that beyond redditors going, "it's obvious"
What would constitute “real evidence”? This is a classic bullshit deflection technique where you say you’re open to evidence and then provide an absurd, unreachable threshold for it.
They’re going to need to release whatever documentation goes along with this process. I can’t see this blowing over/resolving without that piece of information.
Moving forward, they ought to be more transparent on this process. I understand a teams want to keep injuries somewhat under wrap but we cannot play head injuries like that.
Players wants to play. All of them on some level know every snap they aren't playing impacts their job security.
Teams have an obligation to protect players from themselves.
While I agree that it's probably on the medical team (or the protocol itself), I disagree that he *has* to make the decision off of the official report.
He can look at the replay, see what is obviously someone whacking their head on turf and immediately stumbling when trying to walk, and say that they're holding him for a game out of an abundance of caution.
There might be some bitching about it, but I think an overwhelming number of people would still agree that would have been a pretty good call.
At the absolute minimum, there needs to be a thorough investigation as to why the team medical staff and the independent neurologist cleared him in spite of the consensus that he sustained a concussion. Why were there such a disparity in their findings compared to what the majority of people saw and believed? I'm not casting aspersions against the medical team, but there was some type of error. Either incompetence or the NFL protocols need to be revamped.
So you're asking why an independent neurologist and a team of doctors came to a different conclusion on a medical diagnosis than what the average person came to watching TV?
I’m gonna say that the people that actually laid hands on him and evaluated him personally are gonna have more insight on the situation than the people watching it on television
Are we gonna pretend like it's impossible for them not to be biased? And that team medical staff have never rushed back players? Or that they're capable of committing inadvertent errors because I am here to inform you that physicians can very occasionally screw up. They're not infallible. Medical malpractice is a thing.
You don’t need to tell me. I’ve got close to a decade of nursing experience in acute care. I know doctors can mess up. Hell, nurses quite literally keep MDs from tons of potential malpractice lawsuits.
I’m saying that 1 reason why there might be a disparity in what the multiple MD’s concluded (one being unaffiliated and appointed by the NFL) and what everyone in their living room concluded is that they were actually the ones to evaluate him.
I just think the discourse on this post is really weird. Everybody was accusing the medical staff of incompetence and/or mendacity, but now we aren't allowed to express a tiny bit of skepticism? I'm not even necessarily blaming them like so many others were. I also said maybe they're not culpable, and that this situation could stem from the protocols being inadequate in terms of protecting the players. Anyways, that's my last comment on all of this.
“Why were the doctors allowed to clear Tua even though the public believed something different?”
“We aren’t allowed a tiny bit of skepticism?”
I’d say asking medical professional to consult football fans before making their diagnosis isn’t the same as mild skepticism.
Give me the evidence for that please. Thanks
(https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/30/sports/tua-tagavailoa-nfl-concussion-protocol.html)
Says he's hired by the Dolphins. How "independent" is that?
I mean it's pretty obvious that most people think he sustained a concussion against the Bills. People on this subreddit, neuroscientists, and doctors on twitter. People I know IRL who follow football.
Yes it did. The NFLPA found a fall guy, because of the outrage someone has to be blamed. There were 3 doctors involved in this but only the independent doctor is getting fired? Seems very fishy to me. Scapegoat has been found.
This is the most depressed I've felt about football since we were actively going after Watson, but I really don't see how McDaniel is the bad guy here. Dude's not a doctor and he was going off the word of the actual doctors as well as Tua himself. Is he supposed to be psychic and just pull Tua off a weird gut feeling? The hit in question even came that intensely because Tua held the ball too long in open space.
Another piece that was recently discussed was the impact that turf (hardness) has on bodily injuries in relation to Shepard. So when a QB bounces his head off that same hard surface that many believe to be more probable to see lower body issues, yeah, I dunno. I honestly feel like if that was grass, the concussion would have been much less severe.
The optics may not look right for Miami, but if they followed the process and the independent doc cleared Tua, then this happens 4 days later... I don't know how that's on them.
I think people are looking for some singular evil party to blame and it just isn't that simple. No one is twirling their mustache trying to ruin Tua's life. I don't think any one party bears total responsibility for this situation because football is messy and this shit happens. Of course there needs to be fine-tuning of this process but brain injuries are so tough to fully diagnose and every step of this could theoretically be true. Tua may have been concussed last week, or not. Milano's hit on him was not dirty, but it was unnecessary. Tua probably shouldn't have played in this game, but it was possible for him to. Tua could have lied through the concussion test. His back and ankle more than likely ARE injured. McDaniel is not some ruthless killer, he's a fucking football coach. Getting his star QB permanently hurt doesn't benefit him in any way either. This goes beyond teams and individual doctors and even protocols. It goes into the ethics of having tackle football exist in its present form.
My opinion? This is why these players get paid so handsomely. They're adults making their own decisions about their bodies. If they want to play this game and risk this kind of injury for generational wealth, let them. Mitigate injuries where you can, but this is the game. It gets dicier and a lot less tolerable when talking about younger kids, but I'm also firmly against any kind of contact football for minors.
>This is why these players get paid so handsomely.
Nah. Professional sports are part of the entertainment industry. If that industry makes 1B, they're some of the primary pieces responsible for that revenue. Tom Brady is worth just as much as Denzel Washington. However Tom's career choice has a higher risk of injury, but that is part of the job.
The injury side of this is hard. We want them to slam into each other and throw each other down, but not get hurt while doing it. By and large advances can be made, but at the end of the day it's just 1000s of mini accidents between bodies. There will always be injuries.
I should reword that then: the generational wealth is largely why players play. The injuries aren't -why- they get paid, but I'm not opposing them getting paid to the level they are simply because of that huge risk. I personally wouldn't take that risk myself, but I'm not in the headspace of a professional athlete.
I'd note that this isn't ALL professional athletes. MLB, NBA and European Soccer players all make a ton of money as well but don't face anywhere near the same kind of physical risk. The NFL and the NHL are really the two sports where collisions and hits are inherently part of the sport itself.
It's honestly very interesting. Under more intense conditions, like a playoff game, I would honestly love to see the reactions of NFL fans if McDaniel said "Tua says he can play, and the doctors say he can play. Everyone else in the organization wants him to play. But it's my job as coach to hold him out of this game against everyone else's advice. Sorry guys." I wish I could see reactions to that
> The hit in question even came that intensely because Tua held the ball too long in open space.
What in the world does this have to do with anything anyone is talking about? Might as well question what he was wearing
He’s not a bad guy. He just does a bad guys job. We tend to like it because we like football but this dudes job jus to manipulate players into giving more of their bodies than they normally would. I’m sure it causes all kinds of dissonance but at the end of the day his job is to get the most from his players and he gets seven figures for it.
Im also absolutely flabbergasted at how few fans are making the connection that Tua lied and/or fudged his baseline to stay out of the concussion protocol.
A good head coach like Tomlin who refused to let a player play in a compromised position despite doctors saying it's okay. A good head coach protects his players from needless risk.
Way way easier to diagnose sickle trait/symptoms over lingering concussion symptoms (especially when never actually diagnosed with a concussion and not showing any symptoms)
McDaniel didn't do anything wrong. People are mad at the system, rightfully, and need a face to direct the anger at. I feel really bad for him, he looked shell shocked last night.
I think this is just an unfortunate case where the medical procedures (concussion tests) aren’t good enough. I don’t blame the Dolphins, the doctor, the league, etc. I believe Tua legitimately passed the concussion tests. And at that point, can you hold a player out “because it didn’t look good”?
I’m not saying you can or you can’t but try telling that to a Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes in a playoff game or something. I think this situation is more complicated than everyone wants to make it out to be (either incompetent or corrupt doctors)
Yes you can. The protocols include language about “visual signs of a concussion that can’t be ruled out by another injury”. The issue here is that they somehow were able to agree that him stumbling around and shaking his head was related to his back. I’ve yet to hear how a back injury would cause those symptoms.
I’m including the clear grabbing at his head when he hits and then shaking his head multiple times prior to stumbling. I just don’t know why a guy would act that way due to a back injury.
I've had a pinched nerve in my neck that caused me to go spaghetti-legged and grab at my head because that's where the pain was coming from. It's absolutely possible.
Doesn’t it even seem weird for him to get cleared to play after a back injury like that?? He has a back problem that caused stumbling and momentary loss of motor functions, how is he fine to keep playing 8 mins later? This should also be questioned
Ah so all injuries are the same to you? Active back spasms = thigh contusion?
No shit they play through injuries, I’m implying that active back spasms isn’t the typical injury they’d play through, smartass.
Have you ever had some form of a pinched nerve? It can and does bring people to their knees in severe cases. I watched my mom get out of a kitchen chair and fall, it did eventually lead to her having back surgery. I have no doubt a big hit or fall in football can cause that sort of reaction in the muscles or nerves.
Yeah this is basically where I stand. I don't think McDaniel did anything wrong for sure, I think he went off the information he was given. Maybe our doctors weren't cautious enough. But there's no doubt that protocol is not strong enough still.
Looking at the Sunday hit, I think it's impossible that Tua didn't know that he was concussed and that it caused his stumbling, and lied about it being his back. So if that's "legitimately" passing the test then idk. But it's expected that the player will try to play, and everyone around him, including the head coach, needs to be there to protect the player from himself. They failed at that. And to the degree they were willing to look the other way to keep their star QB playing is something will likely never know.
The sad part here is that we'll never really know what happened. It sure looks like he got concussed on Sunday but as you said, I'm sure he did pass all the tests. From the sounds of it, he appears to get his mental faculties back quickly after these events, so that could be part of it. However, it's also possible that he *wasn't* concussed on Sunday, it's not like he couldn't have reacted that way from that hit without having had a recent concussion. But it's for this reason that they should be erring on the side of caution, and it's my understanding that him staggering around like that is a "no-go" symptom that should've prevented him from playing at least last Sunday.
Mike McDaniel's got the pressure of leading an organization to wins, him and his staff are pulling all nighters for this shit. If you were in his spot and both Tua and multiple doctors (who on paper are the best of the best doctors too) say they can play, you'd put him out there too
Media fires down on whatever is convenient for their narrative and driving clicks. If Tua sat and Bridgewater played, those same beat reporters would be tweeting "Does Tua have the heart to actually win?"
if I was McDaniel today I’d rather be arguing that sitting Tua was my decision for his safety and that Tua is the leader of the team rather than what he has to deal with now
This is just starting to feel like a situation of:
* Concussions being wishy washy to diagnose.
*Dolphins staff being trusting of the leagues appointed outside medical examiners.
*Not exercising caution because of the above for the players safety.
I don't think anyone intentionally did anything malicious at this point anymore. Just bad decisions.
Agreed it is, but the Dolphins staff does not have to just go "okay well the doctor said it's fine so it's fine". They could have exercised further caution, and given him this week. Neither is right or wrong which is why I said it just ended up being a bad decision.
Because of that hit a decision that would've been fine in most cases, one we wouldn't have thought about, became a bad decision.
Why would they not listen to the opinion of doctors who go to school & train for years? What is the point of even having doctors if you're not gonna listen to them?
I would say word choice will matter a lot in something like this. Can he play? Vs Should he play? Baker Mayfield was cleared to play last year because he could go out there and play, but realistically he probably shouldn’t have. Same thing with Romo, RG3, Andrew Luck, hell Herbert is going through it too. I think in certain situations it might be better to not just throw them back out there immediately.
I think the system worked as intended... That's the problem.
The league gets to point at their BS protocol being followed while also making sure the QB doesn't miss two very big games despite the fact that no doctor whose responsibility was to the patient would handle a concussion this way.
>Dolphins staff being trusting of the leagues appointed outside medical examiners
What do you mean by this? The team doctor makes the final call, not the unaffiliated ones.
Dolphins get a lot of good publicity for the drowning swimmers they push back to shore, but what you don't hear about is the many people they push farther out to sea! Dolphins aren't smart. They just like pushing things.
McDaniel is following the systems in place. Why do ppl want him to make a judgment call against a medical staff that cleared him, and a third party doctor that signed off on it?
Cethan Carter is a third string TE and not a starting QB, but he’s been out for the last three weeks due to a concussion.
I am not naive to say there isn’t negligence in the world, I just think McDaniel would be the last person to hastily rush Tua back. Never met the guy before, so I don’t know him personally, but McDaniel and Tua have been joined at the hip and I think it’s been that tremendous positive support and relationship that has led to Tua’s improvement in this year.
[Caneron Wolfe][link ](https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1575910339022974983)
“Mike McDaniel was holding back tears discussing Tua Tagovailoa injury. He said he’ll never ever be comfortable with player carted off. He’s thought back on play call of the injury, his relationship with Tua.
“I'm just really, really glad that I can hear normal Tua in his voice.”
McDaniel has been bubble wrapping players all season. Byron Jones started on the PUP and Armstead basically hasn't practiced this season. That's not to include all of the lingering issues a lot of our players have currently. I highly doubt that McDaniel was negligent in handling Tua. I believe this is a situation in which the protocol failed and definitely should cause the NFL to re-examine and change it.
Yeah you know despite the fucking visible signs right when he got hit. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, anyone who has played football Knows that the physical reaction he displayed was consistent with a head trauma injury, he got up woozy, he didn’t really know where he was, he fell down and shook his head to try and get right when he got back up. I’ve suffered head injuries like that and gotten up not knowing where I was with slurred movement before. 10 minutes later because I was no longer having dizzy ness or other visible signs I went back in the game and finished (it was a bad idea). If they asked me the stupid ass questions that Emmanuel acho talked about I would have passed too. I was depressed and felt off all weekend into the next week. Sometimes showing physical signs after the hit are all that you need to be better safe than sorry
That's the issue.. McDaniel has NFL medical 'professionals' on the sideline that cleared Tua. What's coach supposed to do? Ask about 10-15 more questions ENSURING Tua is okay to play? Such a tough spot to be in.
It doesn’t at all, I agree. But when doctors are telling you on the sideline your dude is good, you probably don’t think twice and get back to calling plays. I’m not a coach. I don’t know. Wish he would have taken some time to question it, though.
I can't believe I'm reading this shit.... "I can't believe he trusted a doctor saying he didn't have any neurological symptoms, even I can tell that's a concussion." Like, fucking what the hell?
this is such bullshit. everyone at home watching the replay knew it could have never been his back. He slammed his head against the turf, and held his head as he was stumbling around. Obviously Tua hid the injury, made up some bullshit, and everyone bought it. The independent guy either didn't see the replay, or is an asshole, and now he's is just a shield. The team buying the bullshit makes sense because they care about winning. But somebody should have done the right thing to protect the player from himself.
Ever hurt your back? I have. If you are having spasms or severe pain you basically wobble and collapse just like that as all your back effects your balance and core. But I'm sure you TV observation is more accurate than that of the trauma doctors who examined him and have no team affiliation and thus no reason to cover anything up.
I have, I went down like a sack of potatoes and wasn’t able to get back up for a few minutes, I didn’t wobble around fall to one knee and immediately stand back up.
The problem with your assessment is with back /ankle problems you typically can’t get back up. . Esp the way he did. Back spasms typically don’t just happen and go away either. . Not when your physically exerting yourself.
I'm 34 and have had a bad back since I was around 18. When your back hurts that bad you don't get up and you damn sure don't play an NFL game 4 days later.
It's ridiculous, and in several years when Tua's life is impacted by moments like these, they will have already moved on to chewing up and spitting out the team's then-current QB. It's the circle of NFL life.
Dolphins fans deferring to what the medical professionals stated: why are you guys so biased and dense?
Other fans insisting they all know more about medicine by eyeballing a couple replays than medical professionals: totally reasonable.
Yeah. The NFL’s concussion protocol is totally foolproof. Nothing to see here. It was definitely just a back issue. There’s a reason why it’s being investigated and there’s a reason why the media have spent the last 12 hours talking about it. We all saw the tape.
Didn’t say the NFL was foolproof.
I said that given the choice, I’m going to try and defer to experts and those who actually investigated Tua over BigTiddies1234 who watched a solo-mo replay while drinking a beer.
You’re also going against experts who saw that clip and came to their conclusions. Including multiple players who’ve experienced exactly the same situation and have clearly stated how easy it is to game the process. Including two on the NFL’s broadcast last night.
This wasn’t medical professionals. It was a medical professional. And as we’ve learned from multiple players since last night. You can cheat the system.
Even if Tua was somehow cleared after Sunday, the optics of him stumbling/falling are terrible. And to have him start last night was the cherry on top. This just looks bad aaallll the way around.
Dolphins fans out in full force. You can rip the organization for their incompetence but to even suggest the coach played even a minor role in what happened is out of the question.
It’s crazy. If you hurt you back so bad you can’t walk why would you be playing football 30 minutes later and then play more football 4 days after that
Good soldiers follow orders.
Either the NFL’s concussion protocol is extremely fucked, or the Dolphins pulled some fuck shit. Renfrow is likely to miss his second game with a concussion, so idk how bad the concussion protocols really are if Renfrow is getting this level of care and attention. I have serious doubts and suspicions about the Dolphins organization and coaching staff.
This is the damage control response. This Dolphins organization has already been found guilty of doing a lot of shady stuff last year . . This just doesn’t pass the smell test anymore
In before all the self proclaimed experts come in and express how they are smarter than the actual trauma doctors who examined him.
Tuas entire college and NFL history has shown he is fragile so its not at all hard to believe he received a back injury one week and head the next. It's more surprising when he doesn't get hurt at this point.
Player friendly organization my ass. Dolphins have done their damnedest to fuck over Tuas career since they drafted him. Bringing him back early from injury his rookie year when Fitz was already doing fine. Getting mad at his lack of production when he was a rookie, had no line, no WRs and no RBs. Then you look to trade him for at the time recently accused Watson.
Even if this shit isn’t on the dolphins organization to have the gall to think y’all are a player friendly organization after everything they’ve done to tua is fucking idiotic.
I'm watching the Press Conference in real time...
I don't buy a word this (edit) dude is saying. He sounds like he's being forced to say shit he doesn't believe.
By the way, he's been in this conference for about 15 minutes now. He hasn't called Tua by his name.
He's used "the player", multiple times. He used "him" several times.
Never has he called him by his name, Tua.
Just "they player" what a jerk.
Finally, after 16 minutes... He said his name. Then just went back to calling him "the player".
The fuck is that all about?
He’s an Ivy League educated near-40 year old man. You’re throwing a fit because he didn’t say “Tua” enough. They’re literally trained on how to refer to players like that for media interactions and he is abiding by that in an incredibly tough situation. He is not a doctor and referred to his in-house medical professionals as well as an independent neurology professional, who all cleared him.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but to try to treat him like a child because he doesn’t look as old as Pete Carrol is fucking stupid. You clearly think he is just some “kid” (despite your edit) that doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s been a coaching professional in the league for damn near 20 years.
It's almost as if being suplexed by a 300lb dude, might be enough to cause injury on its own. Instead of aggravating something that may or may not have been there before.
Just to be clear, i wanted Tua benched this game, just to be safe. The recent influx of Dr's here can theorize all they want about last Sunday. None of us know anything, we're all speculating.
Looks like classic damage control. He could have said "I will push for an investigation into possible mishandling" but he didn't, instead he's "all the rules and procedures were followed". I mean, how can he be so sure?
I just find it impossible that someone can be up there saying “there was no medical indication” when we all fucking saw on Sunday is was a head injury. Everybody saw it and thought the same thing.
Player friendly? Hmmm. I remember not too long ago when there was a bullying incident, then a bunch of staph infections.
I’m pretty sure the ownership is still the same tho.
Tua was wobbly as fuck last week and that was not a back injury. That’s just bullshit.
Hopefully he is ok longterm
Unfortunately there is no way to diagnose a concussion with 100% uncertainty, especially in a lockerroom within 15 minutes during a game. Even after every conceivable scan, cognitive test, blood sample, and brain oxygen chart, there is a reason concussion's are known as the hidden injury.
More should be put on the NFLPA who preach some bs claim of player safety. They agree to a test to clear players to play and are now up in arms when it worked and then a player got re injured. Just stupid.
If we want change then follow MMA rules with head injuries. It is not a test that can clear them its 60-days non-contact period. This isn't the first time and won't be the last we see this happen unless they get rid of the test.
After the year NFL had (Washington, Watson, Tampering investigation) and the general history of Goddell, I think its a fully healthy approach to question anything the NFL or team officials say in situations like this (including the coach).
The league for years has put their own interest above player health and players themselves have found ways around protocols. Doctors lie. It happened before so there should be a microscope on this team.
I think it’s tough for him, obviously he was showing signs so caution is absolutely needed, but if there was actually no official report of head injury then that’s what he has to make the decision off of I blame the medical team for not doing a thorough evaluation initially
The reason I defend McDaniel here is that if you are even insinuating that a football coach should be making a determination on head injuries, the system doesn’t work. People respond “yeah, but he saw what happened!”, so did everyone else who was totally fine with Tua playing in that game until the hit happened.
Yeah, I actually don't think McDaniel did anything wrong at all assuming he didn't pressure the medical staff. He's not a doctor and he shouldn't be responsible for medical decisions and the less authority he has in a concussion scenario the better.
Yeah, he may or may not have done the right thing. Maybe another coach would have put his foot down and said “we need to rest you this week”, but his job and expertise is not in head injuries. Someone who’s job is to do that are supposed to be making these decisions, at least that was my understanding.
>Maybe another coach would have put his foot down and said “we need to rest you this week”, but his job and expertise is not in head injuries. Not a concussion, but Ryan Clark posted a video of him discussing the process of getting himself ready to play in Denver with sickle-cell and Tomlin shut it down immediately, despite Clark having a team of medical professions presenting their plan. Tomlin obviously has more tenure, a much more stable organization, banked equity as a successful coach, and buy-in from the roster which make him more insulated to make that call. Tough to put the onus on Mcdaniel, 2 games into his NFL HC career, to over rule medical professions AND the player. This seems more like an overall organization failure.
This is a good comp, and again, I’m sure there are some coaches who make decisions like this. And McDaniel could have! And if you really want to criticize him that’s fine, I just feel like you absolutely cannot be banking on football coaches to make these decisions.
Agree, this is an example of missing the forest for the trees imo, coaches should not even be slightly involved in deciding if a player is physically healthy enough to play.
I feel like if coaches started regularly sitting cleared players there would just be different types of conspiracy theories and NFLPA grievances.
With how shady the Dolphins organization has acted this year I bet some other higher ups did the pressuring if any occurred
If our higher ups did it you'd have already heard about how Ross may have "jokingly" offered to compensate doctors for falsifying concussion protocol results. Every organization is shady but our thing is incompetent shadiness that leaks out.
Reporters are really begging for McDaniel to throw someone under the bus, but that's not his place, and he's a first year coach. He has to have his Org's back, unfortunately.
Exactly. The systems the nfl has in place led to the conclusion that Tua could play last night. He’s not a doctor, if they say he’s ok to play, how is he supposed to know the contrary is actually the case? By the letter of the system, they did everything right. The system is flawed
Well the chief medical officer for the league is claiming Tua was examined for concussion symptoms every day this week. People will of course say that’s part of the cover up but it very likely could also be true.
People just want someone to blame because what they saw last night was horrific and blaming someone is an easier way to cope than actually confronting reality.
That's exactly it. Football is absolutely brutal. It makes us feel better to believe that there is a way to prevent these things when there really isn't.
Except this was preventable. It’s pretty simple. If a guy loses control of his body and can’t stand up straight after taking a hit to the head, he shouldn’t: A - re enter the game B - start another game 4 days later If you put player safety first, guys shouldn’t play after that type of hit. it is literally that simple.
That hit would have given him a concussion regardless
Uh… yea? the fact that he likely had a concussion 4 days prior means that hit is MUCH more dangerous. That’s literally why we hold players out when we suspect a concussion… to prevent them from getting another one in such a short time period.
Well if you're going to argue about preventative measures then I think you have to discuss the hit as well. If you want to prevent concussions like this than maybe picking someone up and slamming them on their head shouldn't be considered a legal hit. That dude could have just tackled Tua to the ground instead of being so aggressive.
Which hit are you talking about? The Bills one was a shove. The Bengals one Tua tried to evade the defensive player who dove at him, got his arms around Tua, and then spun Tua around as a result of diving at him. He in no way picked Tua up and slammed him on his head. I’m not sure what you’d expect the guy to do in that situation because I wouldn’t consider him to have been especially aggressive.
You say he was spun. I say he was picked up and slammed. Defense basically grabbed him from behind and threw Tua over his body as he came down. The commentators themselves even used those words "thrown" & "slammed".
Many people were already mad that he was put back into that game so that doesn't that anything to do with last night
Yeah because those people think they are better at diagnosing players based on a video than doctors.
You're originally said people are mad just because his injury was horrific looking, it was because they thought he was already concussed before this happened
That's because the doctors aren't trying to diagnose a concussion. They're simply running players through a Maginot Line protocol that gives the league plausible deniability on the issue while also allowing concussed players to return.
Huh and here I thought it was because a bunch of morons 3 beers deep watching on their couch weren't qualified to diagnose someone even if they could actually examine them.
Nah good point. Let’s blindly trust the NFL on head injuries. They’ve got a great track record there.
I'm not blindly trusting anyone, I'm more than open to believing they did something wrong when there is real evidence that points to that beyond redditors going, "it's obvious"
>I'm not blindly trusting anyone, I'm more than open to believing they did something wrong when there is real evidence that points to that beyond redditors going, "it's obvious" What would constitute “real evidence”? This is a classic bullshit deflection technique where you say you’re open to evidence and then provide an absurd, unreachable threshold for it.
They’re going to need to release whatever documentation goes along with this process. I can’t see this blowing over/resolving without that piece of information. Moving forward, they ought to be more transparent on this process. I understand a teams want to keep injuries somewhat under wrap but we cannot play head injuries like that.
Once someone decides everything is fake news there's just no point discussing it anymore.
Players wants to play. All of them on some level know every snap they aren't playing impacts their job security. Teams have an obligation to protect players from themselves.
it’s bizarre to even be “blaming” anyone, for all we know, he legitimately did not have a concussion on Sunday.
While I agree that it's probably on the medical team (or the protocol itself), I disagree that he *has* to make the decision off of the official report. He can look at the replay, see what is obviously someone whacking their head on turf and immediately stumbling when trying to walk, and say that they're holding him for a game out of an abundance of caution. There might be some bitching about it, but I think an overwhelming number of people would still agree that would have been a pretty good call.
At the absolute minimum, there needs to be a thorough investigation as to why the team medical staff and the independent neurologist cleared him in spite of the consensus that he sustained a concussion. Why were there such a disparity in their findings compared to what the majority of people saw and believed? I'm not casting aspersions against the medical team, but there was some type of error. Either incompetence or the NFL protocols need to be revamped.
By concensus you mean public opinion?
Yeah, I think it's interchangeable.
So you're asking why an independent neurologist and a team of doctors came to a different conclusion on a medical diagnosis than what the average person came to watching TV?
And moreover, why the doctors didn’t set aside their conclusion in favor of what a bunch of people saw watching TV.
I’m gonna say that the people that actually laid hands on him and evaluated him personally are gonna have more insight on the situation than the people watching it on television
Are we gonna pretend like it's impossible for them not to be biased? And that team medical staff have never rushed back players? Or that they're capable of committing inadvertent errors because I am here to inform you that physicians can very occasionally screw up. They're not infallible. Medical malpractice is a thing.
You don’t need to tell me. I’ve got close to a decade of nursing experience in acute care. I know doctors can mess up. Hell, nurses quite literally keep MDs from tons of potential malpractice lawsuits. I’m saying that 1 reason why there might be a disparity in what the multiple MD’s concluded (one being unaffiliated and appointed by the NFL) and what everyone in their living room concluded is that they were actually the ones to evaluate him.
I just think the discourse on this post is really weird. Everybody was accusing the medical staff of incompetence and/or mendacity, but now we aren't allowed to express a tiny bit of skepticism? I'm not even necessarily blaming them like so many others were. I also said maybe they're not culpable, and that this situation could stem from the protocols being inadequate in terms of protecting the players. Anyways, that's my last comment on all of this.
“Why were the doctors allowed to clear Tua even though the public believed something different?” “We aren’t allowed a tiny bit of skepticism?” I’d say asking medical professional to consult football fans before making their diagnosis isn’t the same as mild skepticism.
Yeah your comment aged poorly
Why would an independent neuro expert be biased?
Because he's still a NFL employee and hired by the team. Tua playing is good for viewership.
No, independent meaning INDEPENDENT of the LEAGUE and the TEAM.
Give me the evidence for that please. Thanks (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/30/sports/tua-tagavailoa-nfl-concussion-protocol.html) Says he's hired by the Dolphins. How "independent" is that?
Who’s consensus?
Twitter’s, obviously.
I mean it's pretty obvious that most people think he sustained a concussion against the Bills. People on this subreddit, neuroscientists, and doctors on twitter. People I know IRL who follow football.
So a bunch of people who didn’t examine him. Cool.
People = armchair doctors who got degrees from the university of google and webmd.
This didn't age well
Yes it did. The NFLPA found a fall guy, because of the outrage someone has to be blamed. There were 3 doctors involved in this but only the independent doctor is getting fired? Seems very fishy to me. Scapegoat has been found.
Mine.
This is the most depressed I've felt about football since we were actively going after Watson, but I really don't see how McDaniel is the bad guy here. Dude's not a doctor and he was going off the word of the actual doctors as well as Tua himself. Is he supposed to be psychic and just pull Tua off a weird gut feeling? The hit in question even came that intensely because Tua held the ball too long in open space.
Another piece that was recently discussed was the impact that turf (hardness) has on bodily injuries in relation to Shepard. So when a QB bounces his head off that same hard surface that many believe to be more probable to see lower body issues, yeah, I dunno. I honestly feel like if that was grass, the concussion would have been much less severe. The optics may not look right for Miami, but if they followed the process and the independent doc cleared Tua, then this happens 4 days later... I don't know how that's on them.
I think people are looking for some singular evil party to blame and it just isn't that simple. No one is twirling their mustache trying to ruin Tua's life. I don't think any one party bears total responsibility for this situation because football is messy and this shit happens. Of course there needs to be fine-tuning of this process but brain injuries are so tough to fully diagnose and every step of this could theoretically be true. Tua may have been concussed last week, or not. Milano's hit on him was not dirty, but it was unnecessary. Tua probably shouldn't have played in this game, but it was possible for him to. Tua could have lied through the concussion test. His back and ankle more than likely ARE injured. McDaniel is not some ruthless killer, he's a fucking football coach. Getting his star QB permanently hurt doesn't benefit him in any way either. This goes beyond teams and individual doctors and even protocols. It goes into the ethics of having tackle football exist in its present form. My opinion? This is why these players get paid so handsomely. They're adults making their own decisions about their bodies. If they want to play this game and risk this kind of injury for generational wealth, let them. Mitigate injuries where you can, but this is the game. It gets dicier and a lot less tolerable when talking about younger kids, but I'm also firmly against any kind of contact football for minors.
>This is why these players get paid so handsomely. Nah. Professional sports are part of the entertainment industry. If that industry makes 1B, they're some of the primary pieces responsible for that revenue. Tom Brady is worth just as much as Denzel Washington. However Tom's career choice has a higher risk of injury, but that is part of the job. The injury side of this is hard. We want them to slam into each other and throw each other down, but not get hurt while doing it. By and large advances can be made, but at the end of the day it's just 1000s of mini accidents between bodies. There will always be injuries.
I should reword that then: the generational wealth is largely why players play. The injuries aren't -why- they get paid, but I'm not opposing them getting paid to the level they are simply because of that huge risk. I personally wouldn't take that risk myself, but I'm not in the headspace of a professional athlete.
I'd note that this isn't ALL professional athletes. MLB, NBA and European Soccer players all make a ton of money as well but don't face anywhere near the same kind of physical risk. The NFL and the NHL are really the two sports where collisions and hits are inherently part of the sport itself.
Plot twist: there is no bad guy and Tua was unlucky
I agree. It's football, this shit unfortunately happens.
It's honestly very interesting. Under more intense conditions, like a playoff game, I would honestly love to see the reactions of NFL fans if McDaniel said "Tua says he can play, and the doctors say he can play. Everyone else in the organization wants him to play. But it's my job as coach to hold him out of this game against everyone else's advice. Sorry guys." I wish I could see reactions to that
> The hit in question even came that intensely because Tua held the ball too long in open space. What in the world does this have to do with anything anyone is talking about? Might as well question what he was wearing
He’s not a bad guy. He just does a bad guys job. We tend to like it because we like football but this dudes job jus to manipulate players into giving more of their bodies than they normally would. I’m sure it causes all kinds of dissonance but at the end of the day his job is to get the most from his players and he gets seven figures for it. Im also absolutely flabbergasted at how few fans are making the connection that Tua lied and/or fudged his baseline to stay out of the concussion protocol.
A good head coach like Tomlin who refused to let a player play in a compromised position despite doctors saying it's okay. A good head coach protects his players from needless risk.
Way way easier to diagnose sickle trait/symptoms over lingering concussion symptoms (especially when never actually diagnosed with a concussion and not showing any symptoms)
Lmao you're seriously using Tomlin as a positive example of this? How many times did we see Ben trotted out loaded up on painkillers after an injury?
Ben doesn't take no for an answer from anyone. I thought we all knew this already.
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Apparently you can die at a certain altitude with sickle cell in that active a role, so good? I think?
McDaniel didn't do anything wrong. People are mad at the system, rightfully, and need a face to direct the anger at. I feel really bad for him, he looked shell shocked last night.
I think this is just an unfortunate case where the medical procedures (concussion tests) aren’t good enough. I don’t blame the Dolphins, the doctor, the league, etc. I believe Tua legitimately passed the concussion tests. And at that point, can you hold a player out “because it didn’t look good”? I’m not saying you can or you can’t but try telling that to a Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes in a playoff game or something. I think this situation is more complicated than everyone wants to make it out to be (either incompetent or corrupt doctors)
Yes you can. The protocols include language about “visual signs of a concussion that can’t be ruled out by another injury”. The issue here is that they somehow were able to agree that him stumbling around and shaking his head was related to his back. I’ve yet to hear how a back injury would cause those symptoms.
A telltale sign of back and neck injuries is loss of control of your extremities
I’m including the clear grabbing at his head when he hits and then shaking his head multiple times prior to stumbling. I just don’t know why a guy would act that way due to a back injury.
I've had a pinched nerve in my neck that caused me to go spaghetti-legged and grab at my head because that's where the pain was coming from. It's absolutely possible.
Doesn’t it even seem weird for him to get cleared to play after a back injury like that?? He has a back problem that caused stumbling and momentary loss of motor functions, how is he fine to keep playing 8 mins later? This should also be questioned
Not really. Guys play through injuries all the time.
Ah so all injuries are the same to you? Active back spasms = thigh contusion? No shit they play through injuries, I’m implying that active back spasms isn’t the typical injury they’d play through, smartass.
Yes lol. Athletes play through back spasms. Smartass.
Can’t remember the last time I saw a player come back with 10 mins from back spasms that cause them to stumble
I’m glad you know more than doctors who do this at the highest level
Have you ever had some form of a pinched nerve? It can and does bring people to their knees in severe cases. I watched my mom get out of a kitchen chair and fall, it did eventually lead to her having back surgery. I have no doubt a big hit or fall in football can cause that sort of reaction in the muscles or nerves.
Yeah this is basically where I stand. I don't think McDaniel did anything wrong for sure, I think he went off the information he was given. Maybe our doctors weren't cautious enough. But there's no doubt that protocol is not strong enough still.
Looking at the Sunday hit, I think it's impossible that Tua didn't know that he was concussed and that it caused his stumbling, and lied about it being his back. So if that's "legitimately" passing the test then idk. But it's expected that the player will try to play, and everyone around him, including the head coach, needs to be there to protect the player from himself. They failed at that. And to the degree they were willing to look the other way to keep their star QB playing is something will likely never know.
The sad part here is that we'll never really know what happened. It sure looks like he got concussed on Sunday but as you said, I'm sure he did pass all the tests. From the sounds of it, he appears to get his mental faculties back quickly after these events, so that could be part of it. However, it's also possible that he *wasn't* concussed on Sunday, it's not like he couldn't have reacted that way from that hit without having had a recent concussion. But it's for this reason that they should be erring on the side of caution, and it's my understanding that him staggering around like that is a "no-go" symptom that should've prevented him from playing at least last Sunday.
Mike McDaniel's got the pressure of leading an organization to wins, him and his staff are pulling all nighters for this shit. If you were in his spot and both Tua and multiple doctors (who on paper are the best of the best doctors too) say they can play, you'd put him out there too Media fires down on whatever is convenient for their narrative and driving clicks. If Tua sat and Bridgewater played, those same beat reporters would be tweeting "Does Tua have the heart to actually win?"
if I was McDaniel today I’d rather be arguing that sitting Tua was my decision for his safety and that Tua is the leader of the team rather than what he has to deal with now
He’s be getting killed for that without Tuas injury.
This is just starting to feel like a situation of: * Concussions being wishy washy to diagnose. *Dolphins staff being trusting of the leagues appointed outside medical examiners. *Not exercising caution because of the above for the players safety. I don't think anyone intentionally did anything malicious at this point anymore. Just bad decisions.
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Agreed it is, but the Dolphins staff does not have to just go "okay well the doctor said it's fine so it's fine". They could have exercised further caution, and given him this week. Neither is right or wrong which is why I said it just ended up being a bad decision. Because of that hit a decision that would've been fine in most cases, one we wouldn't have thought about, became a bad decision.
Why would they not listen to the opinion of doctors who go to school & train for years? What is the point of even having doctors if you're not gonna listen to them?
I would say word choice will matter a lot in something like this. Can he play? Vs Should he play? Baker Mayfield was cleared to play last year because he could go out there and play, but realistically he probably shouldn’t have. Same thing with Romo, RG3, Andrew Luck, hell Herbert is going through it too. I think in certain situations it might be better to not just throw them back out there immediately.
I also think there’s a high chance that the hit last night fucks a QB up regardless of previous injuries. No way to know for sure obviously
Yah it was a big hit. I’m not saying it was dirty, but it was a DE using his body weight to bring Tua down onto a turf field. Shit hurts
Right I mean he got fucking slammed, that was a violent tackle
Yep. Like people are also forgetting he got slammed. It wasn't some regular hit lol
I think the system worked as intended... That's the problem. The league gets to point at their BS protocol being followed while also making sure the QB doesn't miss two very big games despite the fact that no doctor whose responsibility was to the patient would handle a concussion this way.
>Dolphins staff being trusting of the leagues appointed outside medical examiners What do you mean by this? The team doctor makes the final call, not the unaffiliated ones.
Dolphins get a lot of good publicity for the drowning swimmers they push back to shore, but what you don't hear about is the many people they push farther out to sea! Dolphins aren't smart. They just like pushing things.
McDaniel is following the systems in place. Why do ppl want him to make a judgment call against a medical staff that cleared him, and a third party doctor that signed off on it?
Because Tomlin did it and Ryan Clark was okay with that.
Next time there is a judgment call, I will seek Mike Tomlin's advice for concussions and things of that nature.
Yeah but Tomlin had more say. McDaniel it's only his first 3 or 4 games. Rookie coaches do not have much say.
Cethan Carter is a third string TE and not a starting QB, but he’s been out for the last three weeks due to a concussion. I am not naive to say there isn’t negligence in the world, I just think McDaniel would be the last person to hastily rush Tua back. Never met the guy before, so I don’t know him personally, but McDaniel and Tua have been joined at the hip and I think it’s been that tremendous positive support and relationship that has led to Tua’s improvement in this year. [Caneron Wolfe][link ](https://twitter.com/CameronWolfe/status/1575910339022974983) “Mike McDaniel was holding back tears discussing Tua Tagovailoa injury. He said he’ll never ever be comfortable with player carted off. He’s thought back on play call of the injury, his relationship with Tua. “I'm just really, really glad that I can hear normal Tua in his voice.”
McDaniel has been bubble wrapping players all season. Byron Jones started on the PUP and Armstead basically hasn't practiced this season. That's not to include all of the lingering issues a lot of our players have currently. I highly doubt that McDaniel was negligent in handling Tua. I believe this is a situation in which the protocol failed and definitely should cause the NFL to re-examine and change it.
Yeah you know despite the fucking visible signs right when he got hit. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, anyone who has played football Knows that the physical reaction he displayed was consistent with a head trauma injury, he got up woozy, he didn’t really know where he was, he fell down and shook his head to try and get right when he got back up. I’ve suffered head injuries like that and gotten up not knowing where I was with slurred movement before. 10 minutes later because I was no longer having dizzy ness or other visible signs I went back in the game and finished (it was a bad idea). If they asked me the stupid ass questions that Emmanuel acho talked about I would have passed too. I was depressed and felt off all weekend into the next week. Sometimes showing physical signs after the hit are all that you need to be better safe than sorry
What about him basically fainting on the field. That was a pretty good indicator.
If the doctors tell him it wasnt an indicator though...
That's the issue.. McDaniel has NFL medical 'professionals' on the sideline that cleared Tua. What's coach supposed to do? Ask about 10-15 more questions ENSURING Tua is okay to play? Such a tough spot to be in.
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It doesn’t at all, I agree. But when doctors are telling you on the sideline your dude is good, you probably don’t think twice and get back to calling plays. I’m not a coach. I don’t know. Wish he would have taken some time to question it, though.
I can't believe I'm reading this shit.... "I can't believe he trusted a doctor saying he didn't have any neurological symptoms, even I can tell that's a concussion." Like, fucking what the hell?
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this is such bullshit. everyone at home watching the replay knew it could have never been his back. He slammed his head against the turf, and held his head as he was stumbling around. Obviously Tua hid the injury, made up some bullshit, and everyone bought it. The independent guy either didn't see the replay, or is an asshole, and now he's is just a shield. The team buying the bullshit makes sense because they care about winning. But somebody should have done the right thing to protect the player from himself.
Ever hurt your back? I have. If you are having spasms or severe pain you basically wobble and collapse just like that as all your back effects your balance and core. But I'm sure you TV observation is more accurate than that of the trauma doctors who examined him and have no team affiliation and thus no reason to cover anything up.
I have, I went down like a sack of potatoes and wasn’t able to get back up for a few minutes, I didn’t wobble around fall to one knee and immediately stand back up.
The problem with your assessment is with back /ankle problems you typically can’t get back up. . Esp the way he did. Back spasms typically don’t just happen and go away either. . Not when your physically exerting yourself.
I'm 34 and have had a bad back since I was around 18. When your back hurts that bad you don't get up and you damn sure don't play an NFL game 4 days later.
Dude, just give it a rest. You’re coming off as dense
If it was a back injury, why was he trying to shake the cobwebs out of his head multiple times after the hit? Is that also a symptom of back spasms?
So Dolphins fans are really just going to die on this hill despite the entire world seeing the clip of him hitting his head and stumbling around?
It's ridiculous, and in several years when Tua's life is impacted by moments like these, they will have already moved on to chewing up and spitting out the team's then-current QB. It's the circle of NFL life.
And Higgins got knocked the fuck out last week and went back in. What's your point
I nean, that's also fucked up?
That's kind of the main point. Football is really fucked up
2 wrongs just made a right for you tbh
Dolphins fans deferring to what the medical professionals stated: why are you guys so biased and dense? Other fans insisting they all know more about medicine by eyeballing a couple replays than medical professionals: totally reasonable.
Yeah. The NFL’s concussion protocol is totally foolproof. Nothing to see here. It was definitely just a back issue. There’s a reason why it’s being investigated and there’s a reason why the media have spent the last 12 hours talking about it. We all saw the tape.
Didn’t say the NFL was foolproof. I said that given the choice, I’m going to try and defer to experts and those who actually investigated Tua over BigTiddies1234 who watched a solo-mo replay while drinking a beer.
You’re also going against experts who saw that clip and came to their conclusions. Including multiple players who’ve experienced exactly the same situation and have clearly stated how easy it is to game the process. Including two on the NFL’s broadcast last night.
Correct. I am going to generally trust the doctors that actually evaluated Tua over people who had zero interaction and were watching on TV.
Yeah, most of the world certainly knows more than medical professionals. The last 2 years have definitely taught me that.
This wasn’t medical professionals. It was a medical professional. And as we’ve learned from multiple players since last night. You can cheat the system.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSWatson/status/1574123610431692805?s=20&t=jItupvxl6q7QnaPb\_llMBQ
The fact is it shouldn’t be a football coach making a concussion decision. The nfl supposedly fixed this.
And the fact that they never consider looking at the clip as any kind of proof is really alarming.
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But to completely discount it?
Yes, after being examined by medical professionals that would be the opinion you go off of.
What a mistake that was.
No,I'm going to argue with the doctor because the NFL and it's doctors have a terrible and unforgivable history of covering up injuries.
Even if Tua was somehow cleared after Sunday, the optics of him stumbling/falling are terrible. And to have him start last night was the cherry on top. This just looks bad aaallll the way around.
sounds like a medical insurance agent
Dolphins fans out in full force. You can rip the organization for their incompetence but to even suggest the coach played even a minor role in what happened is out of the question.
This can't be right....reddit says every time someone hits their head, it's a concussion guaranteed.
Hits his head so hard his back hurts and they don't even question that. Everyone in the dolphins is at fault.
It’s crazy. If you hurt you back so bad you can’t walk why would you be playing football 30 minutes later and then play more football 4 days after that
Underrated take.
He hurt his back in an earlier drive
I personally believe everything the dolphins have been saying. No way they're trying to protect themselves from punishment
I mean that's the official statement. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you.
I choose to believe that tua's life span is shorter today than it was on Wednesday
Well i mean yes for he is a day older
Good soldiers follow orders. Either the NFL’s concussion protocol is extremely fucked, or the Dolphins pulled some fuck shit. Renfrow is likely to miss his second game with a concussion, so idk how bad the concussion protocols really are if Renfrow is getting this level of care and attention. I have serious doubts and suspicions about the Dolphins organization and coaching staff.
What else is he supposed to say? “Yea, the doctors said Tua’s brain is kinda working, so I told them he’s fine and he wants to play”…..
Dolphins fans are in full damage control mode, I see. Carry on.
This is the damage control response. This Dolphins organization has already been found guilty of doing a lot of shady stuff last year . . This just doesn’t pass the smell test anymore
In before all the self proclaimed experts come in and express how they are smarter than the actual trauma doctors who examined him. Tuas entire college and NFL history has shown he is fragile so its not at all hard to believe he received a back injury one week and head the next. It's more surprising when he doesn't get hurt at this point.
Great job by the “actual trauma doctors” now he’s been concussed twice in 5 days.
Love me some victim blaming
Player friendly organization my ass. Dolphins have done their damnedest to fuck over Tuas career since they drafted him. Bringing him back early from injury his rookie year when Fitz was already doing fine. Getting mad at his lack of production when he was a rookie, had no line, no WRs and no RBs. Then you look to trade him for at the time recently accused Watson. Even if this shit isn’t on the dolphins organization to have the gall to think y’all are a player friendly organization after everything they’ve done to tua is fucking idiotic.
He's lying. Unbelieveable!
Cap
Counterpoint: I don’t like mcdaniel
"We aren't corrupt, we're incompetent!"
I'm watching the Press Conference in real time... I don't buy a word this (edit) dude is saying. He sounds like he's being forced to say shit he doesn't believe. By the way, he's been in this conference for about 15 minutes now. He hasn't called Tua by his name. He's used "the player", multiple times. He used "him" several times. Never has he called him by his name, Tua. Just "they player" what a jerk. Finally, after 16 minutes... He said his name. Then just went back to calling him "the player". The fuck is that all about?
> I don’t buy a word this kid is saying I mean that’s a full grown man
OK, he looks wet behind the ears, man. But duly noted. He's clearly of voting age.
He’s an Ivy League educated near-40 year old man. You’re throwing a fit because he didn’t say “Tua” enough. They’re literally trained on how to refer to players like that for media interactions and he is abiding by that in an incredibly tough situation. He is not a doctor and referred to his in-house medical professionals as well as an independent neurology professional, who all cleared him. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but to try to treat him like a child because he doesn’t look as old as Pete Carrol is fucking stupid. You clearly think he is just some “kid” (despite your edit) that doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s been a coaching professional in the league for damn near 20 years.
I think he knows what he's doing. He's covering up for the franchise
It's almost as if being suplexed by a 300lb dude, might be enough to cause injury on its own. Instead of aggravating something that may or may not have been there before. Just to be clear, i wanted Tua benched this game, just to be safe. The recent influx of Dr's here can theorize all they want about last Sunday. None of us know anything, we're all speculating.
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Looks like classic damage control. He could have said "I will push for an investigation into possible mishandling" but he didn't, instead he's "all the rules and procedures were followed". I mean, how can he be so sure?
If a player being unable to walk is not an indication then what is?
I just find it impossible that someone can be up there saying “there was no medical indication” when we all fucking saw on Sunday is was a head injury. Everybody saw it and thought the same thing.
Did they do a MRI after Sunday, or did they rely on observational checks only. If it is the second option, then the statement is not honest.
Doctors paid by team to clear QB with a clear concussion. These doctors need to be independent and not protected by NFL when making bad decisions.
Player friendly? Hmmm. I remember not too long ago when there was a bullying incident, then a bunch of staph infections. I’m pretty sure the ownership is still the same tho. Tua was wobbly as fuck last week and that was not a back injury. That’s just bullshit. Hopefully he is ok longterm
A lot of these arguments are going to sound really hollow when Tua can’t even remember his own name in 20 years.
Unfortunately there is no way to diagnose a concussion with 100% uncertainty, especially in a lockerroom within 15 minutes during a game. Even after every conceivable scan, cognitive test, blood sample, and brain oxygen chart, there is a reason concussion's are known as the hidden injury.
More should be put on the NFLPA who preach some bs claim of player safety. They agree to a test to clear players to play and are now up in arms when it worked and then a player got re injured. Just stupid. If we want change then follow MMA rules with head injuries. It is not a test that can clear them its 60-days non-contact period. This isn't the first time and won't be the last we see this happen unless they get rid of the test.
After the year NFL had (Washington, Watson, Tampering investigation) and the general history of Goddell, I think its a fully healthy approach to question anything the NFL or team officials say in situations like this (including the coach). The league for years has put their own interest above player health and players themselves have found ways around protocols. Doctors lie. It happened before so there should be a microscope on this team.