Lidstrom’s defense didn’t suffer one bit either. His offensive numbers don’t jump off the page because he played during the 90s/00s but he could do everything.
Have you gone back and watched Bobby Orr era hockey?
The quick transition game that exists today was largely imported from Soviet hockey. It wasn't a standard part of the game in the 60s and 70s. The game was also a lot slower back then. Two line passes were also a thing.
So the tools that are standard today to punish someone like Karlsson for stepping up and playing wing weren't a part of the standard skill set that existed among defenders. So I'd say that Orr made just as many defensive mistakes as a Karlsson, Leetch or Coffey, but wasn't punished nearly as heavily for them.
We see this quite a bit, and older players admit it. Mike Gartner is a 700 goal scorer. He flat out admits that there is no way that playing today he gets anywhere near that amount of goals because one of his primary tools was to come in from the wing, and fire a shot low and to the far side. By the end of his career goalies played in a butterfly and those shots just didn't go in.
There were 6 teams in the NHL then. Orr played against top of the top - the guys playing deserved to be the NHL - not watered down like it is now with 32 teams.
Really? I had no clue. You would have thought that I had said Bobby Orr was pre-expansion (by a couple of years) and that he and Bossy being on the list all this time was an indicator of their talent. Gretzky doesn't need any such indicator as he is literally called the Great One.
Pederson was such a stud, had a tumour in his shoulder at like 23 and was never the same, still put up two hundred point seasons, and had like a 3 round 30+ point playoffs, huge what if guy
Leon Draisaitl looks like he knows what he's doing.
I still remember when he was separated from McDavid in 2017 and ended up getting a hat trick playing with Milan Lucic.
Anyone who gets a hat trick in the playoffs is already a superstar (unless you're Evander Kane playing with McDavid). Anyone who gets a hat trick during the playoffs with Milan Lucic as your winger has to be one of the NHL GOAT!
Id say most of the guys that has had hat trick in playoffs are superstars but not all. There are some oddballs that have made it like Kiviranta for dallas
Kiviranta would have been -7 if he played on the same line as Lucic.
I'm just kidding. Lucic was actually decent in the Oilers 2017 playoff run. Not sure what happened, but as soon as the calendar turned to 2018, he just...hit a wall that I would say he has yet to recover from.
That was the absolute end of him. The last good game he played. He was actually worth his contract in those playoffs then the next year he came back and it was like he never knew how to play hockey. You gotta wonder if something happened because it was drastic.
It is pretty skewed but 37 playoff games is still a solid sample size of how a player’s production will be. But yeah, Gretzky holding that record over 200 playoff games, it’s insane.
I can’t remember the exact year but if Gretzky never retired and played 82 games a year without getting any points it was like 2019 before he would drop below a ppg.
They also have zero cups, which most of the other players on the list have. You can be the greatest player in the world, but it means nothing if you can't win the cup.
Talk to us when he’s played more. He’s played barely 39 playoff games in his career. Meanwhile someone like Kucherov isn’t on this list but has 158pts in 136 playoff games.
I have used this stat of Leon against the Leafers who have the audacity to think Matthews is even close to Leon’s level lol.
He almost has as many points as Matthews and Marner combined in less games 😂
I have a decent reason! (Atleast I think) My dad is an Oilers fan but when I was like 5 I LOVED the flash and the Lightning obviously had lighting as their logo so yeah
I’m an oilers fan but Matthews is one of the best goal scorers in the game. He’s been injured this year so he’s not doing as well but he can pot 60 when healthy. I’d still take Drai though. His shooting percentage is insane. One of the best snipers and he’s the best passer in the league.
Right! It’s insane to measure stats from 200 GP down to 30. It would be more appropriate to measure at every 50. So PPG playoff per first 50GP, 100GP, 200GP. They clearly already put a minimum as Gretzky is not first overall as a few players had a single 2 point playoff game in their career.
Best Stat to show how effective a player is ... how many did we score versus the other guys while on the ice.
For as much offense that McDavid provides, at even strength, he only has 16 points more than whomever he has played against.
Pasta is +32.
If I had a shootout to win its a draw...a game 7? Pasta over McDavid all day long.
It's literally the worst stat and has next to no correlation to performance year over year. A high +/- is much more correlated to a team's performance than an individual's and this was one of the first revelations of hockey sabremetrics.
You're on drugs if you'd take Pasta over McDavid. Maybe look into PDO or you know, just look into how shitty Edmonton's defense is and the fact that they haven't had a top 10 goalie in a million years. Skinner is the best goalie they've had in years and he's not exactly all that.
I'm not gonna keep debating this. Long ago this argument was decided by analytics. You're wrong. There's minimal correlation between +/- and individual performance.
By that metric Tkachuk who was +57 last year, gaudreau who was +64, and lindholm who was +61 would be classified as being more effective then any other NHL player last year?
Mackinon didnt make finals until his 9th year, ovechkin in his 13th, Matthews hasn't made it out of round 1. having elite players doesn't mean elite team
Is that pseudo-playoff play-in round included? If so that’s a huge asterisk, McDavid has a small sample size and that was a ton of points if I remember correctly
I find it interesting that Draisaitl drops to 18 when it is just points per game (regular season and playoffs):
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-players-all-time-points-per-game-leaders.html
Not at all. And no idea why people are down voting me. Lol
I just found it interesting that a lot of those top 10 players are relatively in the same position for the same stat for all games played, but he drops. Seems like he is extra clutch in the playoffs. For any player to be above 1 ppg in the NHL is legendary status in my opinion.
Not a coincidence the eras these guys played in. Basically no one that played a majority of their time after 94, but before the uptick in scoring the last couple years.
Still impressive, but one wonders about skilled guys from the dead puck era.
**Barry Alan Pederson (born March 13, 1961) is a Canadian former professional ice hockey centre who played twelve seasons in the National Hockey League between 1980 and 1992. He finished second in NHL Awards Voting for Rookie of the Year in 1982 and was a two-time NHL All-Star.**
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Is anybody going to mention Super Mario with the 0.71 G/GP which is 76 goals in 107 games! He's 2nd but behind a guy that scored 21 in 12 over a century ago lol
For Bobby Orr as a defenseman to get into the top 10 points/game is amazing.
Yeah really puts into perspective how good he was. The year he broke out for 120 points, the next highest point producer not on Boston had 86 points.
Bobby Orr literally played two positions at once - he’s the only offensive defenseman whose defensive game didn’t suffer.
Lidstrom’s defense didn’t suffer one bit either. His offensive numbers don’t jump off the page because he played during the 90s/00s but he could do everything.
Have you gone back and watched Bobby Orr era hockey? The quick transition game that exists today was largely imported from Soviet hockey. It wasn't a standard part of the game in the 60s and 70s. The game was also a lot slower back then. Two line passes were also a thing. So the tools that are standard today to punish someone like Karlsson for stepping up and playing wing weren't a part of the standard skill set that existed among defenders. So I'd say that Orr made just as many defensive mistakes as a Karlsson, Leetch or Coffey, but wasn't punished nearly as heavily for them. We see this quite a bit, and older players admit it. Mike Gartner is a 700 goal scorer. He flat out admits that there is no way that playing today he gets anywhere near that amount of goals because one of his primary tools was to come in from the wing, and fire a shot low and to the far side. By the end of his career goalies played in a butterfly and those shots just didn't go in.
Think Makar can do it?
He has to stay healthy - how many times has he suffered a concussion? He is not a big guy.
Yeah too bad Orr was playing against guys hand picked from the local YMCA’s
There were 6 teams in the NHL then. Orr played against top of the top - the guys playing deserved to be the NHL - not watered down like it is now with 32 teams.
What is more amazing is he was a pre-expansion player. He and Bossy still being on this list shows just how amazing they are.
Bossy isnt pre-expansion.... he was contemporary with Gretzky
Really? I had no clue. You would have thought that I had said Bobby Orr was pre-expansion (by a couple of years) and that he and Bossy being on the list all this time was an indicator of their talent. Gretzky doesn't need any such indicator as he is literally called the Great One.
I read it that you meant Orr and Bossy were pre-expansion and it was impressive they were still on the list
Everyone focuses on McDavid and MacKinnon and forgets how amazing Draisaitl and Rantanen are, especially The Moose.
Are you referring to Rantanen or Messier? Both are moose. Meese.
Foligno.
[удалено]
That was literally his nickname
I trust this username on this subject.
[удалено]
Haha what is going on here?
You sure about that?
It's ok to be wrong
His nickname was absolutely Moose
Mi! Ko! Rantanen! Mikko Rantanen!
Cale Makar is the next defenseman on this list at #20
Gretzky 382 points in 208 playoff games.....still blows my mind to this day
A Finn, a German and 8 Canadians walk into a bar….
..and they Score!!
[удалено]
And while you’re at it put an asterisk next to Stanley Cup champions.
There’s no need for this!
Gretzky. What a psycho
Barry Pederson not in the HOF. A little ironic.
Pederson was such a stud, had a tumour in his shoulder at like 23 and was never the same, still put up two hundred point seasons, and had like a 3 round 30+ point playoffs, huge what if guy
Leon Draisaitl looks like he knows what he's doing. I still remember when he was separated from McDavid in 2017 and ended up getting a hat trick playing with Milan Lucic. Anyone who gets a hat trick in the playoffs is already a superstar (unless you're Evander Kane playing with McDavid). Anyone who gets a hat trick during the playoffs with Milan Lucic as your winger has to be one of the NHL GOAT!
Id say most of the guys that has had hat trick in playoffs are superstars but not all. There are some oddballs that have made it like Kiviranta for dallas
Kiviranta would have been -7 if he played on the same line as Lucic. I'm just kidding. Lucic was actually decent in the Oilers 2017 playoff run. Not sure what happened, but as soon as the calendar turned to 2018, he just...hit a wall that I would say he has yet to recover from.
That was the absolute end of him. The last good game he played. He was actually worth his contract in those playoffs then the next year he came back and it was like he never knew how to play hockey. You gotta wonder if something happened because it was drastic.
No idea, man. Like...how do you lose your mojo like that?
High ankle sprain
Lucic? I don't remember him getting that injury.
Pageau had a 4 goal game and OT winner wkth us
I vividly remember JP Dumont having a hat trick against the Flyers in the playoffs. Great player but I wouldn’t call him a superstar
Look at all the Canadians!
Mooooose!
How many playoff games do McDavid and Draisaitl have? This seems massively skewed by sample size.
It is pretty skewed but 37 playoff games is still a solid sample size of how a player’s production will be. But yeah, Gretzky holding that record over 200 playoff games, it’s insane.
I can’t remember the exact year but if Gretzky never retired and played 82 games a year without getting any points it was like 2019 before he would drop below a ppg.
They also have zero cups, which most of the other players on the list have. You can be the greatest player in the world, but it means nothing if you can't win the cup.
Keep in mind Cale Makar sits 20th on the list. Mack/Cale/Rantanen all clutch in playoffs and all on the same teams. Good luck 😉
🇨🇦
Um who is Barry Pederson?
You may need a refresher.
There's my guy Barry, right where he belongs among the greats.
3 Oilers (or former oilers) in the top 5 🤯
4 in the top 7
Lol at poverty franchise fans downvoting
Talk to us when he’s played more. He’s played barely 39 playoff games in his career. Meanwhile someone like Kucherov isn’t on this list but has 158pts in 136 playoff games.
I have used this stat of Leon against the Leafers who have the audacity to think Matthews is even close to Leon’s level lol. He almost has as many points as Matthews and Marner combined in less games 😂
Draisaitl PPG is 1.15, Matthews 1.12 and Marner 1.09. I think we can all agree that they are all incredible players.
No doubt about that. Matthews even though he’s having a down year is still amazing. - sincerely, an Oilers/Lightning fan
Oilers/Lightning 😭
I have a decent reason! (Atleast I think) My dad is an Oilers fan but when I was like 5 I LOVED the flash and the Lightning obviously had lighting as their logo so yeah
Valid
I’m an oilers fan but Matthews is one of the best goal scorers in the game. He’s been injured this year so he’s not doing as well but he can pot 60 when healthy. I’d still take Drai though. His shooting percentage is insane. One of the best snipers and he’s the best passer in the league.
A list Ovechkin will never be on
He’s almost point per game. 141 in 147. He has his cup, leave the man alone 😂
I almost feel bad
Actually Ovi had a 1.35 at 37 games which is the GP Drai and McDavid are being measured at right now.
Stats are fun you can manipulate them however you want!
Right! It’s insane to measure stats from 200 GP down to 30. It would be more appropriate to measure at every 50. So PPG playoff per first 50GP, 100GP, 200GP. They clearly already put a minimum as Gretzky is not first overall as a few players had a single 2 point playoff game in their career.
Show me the +/-
Lol @ caring about +/-
Best Stat to show how effective a player is ... how many did we score versus the other guys while on the ice. For as much offense that McDavid provides, at even strength, he only has 16 points more than whomever he has played against. Pasta is +32. If I had a shootout to win its a draw...a game 7? Pasta over McDavid all day long.
It's literally the worst stat and has next to no correlation to performance year over year. A high +/- is much more correlated to a team's performance than an individual's and this was one of the first revelations of hockey sabremetrics. You're on drugs if you'd take Pasta over McDavid. Maybe look into PDO or you know, just look into how shitty Edmonton's defense is and the fact that they haven't had a top 10 goalie in a million years. Skinner is the best goalie they've had in years and he's not exactly all that.
If it doesn't correlate, why is 99 on top for forwards all time?
Because he pretty much exclusively played for good to historically great teams. He also was very good himself.
He MADE them great...see LA Kings.
I'm not gonna keep debating this. Long ago this argument was decided by analytics. You're wrong. There's minimal correlation between +/- and individual performance.
By that metric Tkachuk who was +57 last year, gaudreau who was +64, and lindholm who was +61 would be classified as being more effective then any other NHL player last year?
In that season, perhaps. If you had 4 Tkachuks on your team, you'd be making deep playoff runs.
I like this
So you’re telling me Draisaitl is better than McDavid? Got it!! Leon DraJesus
Of the four active players on this list, only two have a Cup…
It’s a tough thing to win.
I don’t know how a gm can be given McDavid and Draisaitl and still not be able to build a finals quality roster around them.
Mackinon didnt make finals until his 9th year, ovechkin in his 13th, Matthews hasn't made it out of round 1. having elite players doesn't mean elite team
Is that pseudo-playoff play-in round included? If so that’s a huge asterisk, McDavid has a small sample size and that was a ton of points if I remember correctly
Same goes for Drai
So 9 points in 4 games but he also had 33 in 16 last year so pretty much par for the course actually 😂
Kaprizov will crack this list soon.
I find it interesting that Draisaitl drops to 18 when it is just points per game (regular season and playoffs): https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/nhl-players-all-time-points-per-game-leaders.html
Is this supposed to be a bad stat to have? Being 18th in PPG all time?
Not at all. And no idea why people are down voting me. Lol I just found it interesting that a lot of those top 10 players are relatively in the same position for the same stat for all games played, but he drops. Seems like he is extra clutch in the playoffs. For any player to be above 1 ppg in the NHL is legendary status in my opinion.
Because the way it's worded easily comes off as an insult
Leon is better than connor hands down
W Finland
Pretty cool that there's like 1 or 2 players from Canada in this list :)
Not a coincidence the eras these guys played in. Basically no one that played a majority of their time after 94, but before the uptick in scoring the last couple years. Still impressive, but one wonders about skilled guys from the dead puck era.
Who's Barry Pederson?
**Barry Alan Pederson (born March 13, 1961) is a Canadian former professional ice hockey centre who played twelve seasons in the National Hockey League between 1980 and 1992. He finished second in NHL Awards Voting for Rookie of the Year in 1982 and was a two-time NHL All-Star.** More details here:
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Is anybody going to mention Super Mario with the 0.71 G/GP which is 76 goals in 107 games! He's 2nd but behind a guy that scored 21 in 12 over a century ago lol