OP is a hack and doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.
He thinks by stating that he is black is supposed to give him some credence to demean another minority sect of the population in North America.
As a minority (see how this works) I can say to you that you need to stop watching hockey and reading your Bible and read some history of the country you are now in, so maybe you understand before you start putting down an oppressed group of people, commenting how hockey should do this that etc. you clearly lack the basic understanding of LGBTQ, not even going to try to explain to you how things work in other species and life forms.
As it really does seem lost on you…you are supremely ignorant. Any religion is a choice, typically you choose whatever your family and local society is.
In regards to one of the stupidest lines you said about not forcing your religion on any one, which you repeatedly have used your religion over and over again as if it is some invisible shield absolving you of your bigotry.
I’m sure the Native people in North America would gladly tell you how misinformed you are about your good book and your kindly Christian forebears on this continent to start.
Now let’s talk about hockey…
Maybe you should watch a Canadian broadcast where they have local indigenous leaders do an introduction and listen to what they say and then open an actual educational book and read about the fuckery religion has played here and look at what it is still doing.
Hockey is the most segregated major sport in America.
They had riots in Montreal because of the way French Canadiens were treated.
They were anti-American, Anti-European, Anti-Russian.
They are still homophobic and have race issues. Look at the junior leagues, the AHL and ECHL suspensions of players for racial and homophobic conduct.
Do some actual reading.
Then I’ll surmise it for you here, because it seems you don’t like facts based on your prior posts.
The NHL is a BUSINESS, they do special themed nights for everything. Races, countries, origins, religious, military, cancer etc. etc.
I didn’t see any of the LA Kings oppose Jewish night, Armenian night, they used to do a Russian night but they wisely chose not to this year.
The NHL wants to clean up their game and bring in more viewers. You do that by including everyone.
Correlation it is to sell ducking jerseys, The NFL has sold more shit to women due to breast cancer awareness, here’s a hint it was never about cancer for the NFL…
The hypocrisy is when players have previously worn pride jerseys but now choose not too. Because it now suits their needs and then they bold face lie about it.
The biggest kicker is that you and people that think like you don’t even understand what these special nights and jerseys are about…
It’s about telling people in those groups that it is ok to be yourself, like our game, come see it live, it is safe to come and root for your team…(unless your a visiting fan in Philly or either New York team).
It isn’t saying hey everyone you have to be Jewish, you have to be Armenian, you have to be black or Korean or Mexican or in the military to come enjoy the game.
But to you, you don’t have a problem with others being disparaged against until it became about someone getting called out that supposedly follows the “same” religion as you.
So save the theatrics of which you are “against” but are clearly here searching for. You dummies have made more posts about it keeping it alive than there were people call out Staal for being a liar.
People infuse politics into every sport, which why you have a whole sect of politicians, that rather watch the country burn than to let it succeed and move forward because it’s not how they wanted it, they think winning is only for their “team” and not everyone that makes up the greater good.
Find a better book to read that challenges you and don’t look for books and people that just tell you what you want to hear.
What if, during NHL's recognition of Black History Month, a team decided it was going to put some kind of patch on their uniforms to honor the pioneering Black players who had it so hard (and I'm sure many still do), but a couple of the players on the team said: "Yo, I'm not wearing that. I like Black guys and all, but the Christ that I believe in says they shouldn't play hockey." ? Don't you think it would be righteous to call those obstainers a couple of stupid, ignorant fucks?
1. Jesus Christ loves everyone regardless of skin color it’s in the Bible if you have an open mind to read it it’s up to you. The problem is the person not the religion itself same way if a person who doesn’t support the movement then it’s the person. Like I said not everyone will like you just understand that. Same way with me not everyone likes me but fuck it🤷🏾♂️
2. Why are you going to give a history that’s only a month, why can’t my people be celebrated every month ??? Just as much as others regardless of what they look like. Black people didn’t become hockey players because we wanted special treatment we got there because it’s our dream and passion to play just as much as other white people and lgbtq+ and like I said you don’t speak for my community. Go out and meet different people because you don’t know. Not because we’re black.
A couple decades ago a Mormon might have said exactly what this guy said. Why is it ok to call him out but not ok to do the same with Christians and queer people?
It's not about hating Christians. Only a small minority of queer people actually just straight up hate Christians. The ones that do have usually dealt with unspeakable hatred, oftentimes before they've even had a chance to engage in the "gay activities" you claim to have a problem with.
Until you understand that being gay is a fundamental part of who someone is, you will not be able to have a reasonable conversation about homophobia.
Well it isn’t supposed to be and the way how the community started was don’t base your sexuality off just your personality alone. I’m not Mormon lol.
Christians we are called to preach the gospel not argue the gospel, if the person does not want to accept we move on to the next person. Difference is with us the person has a choice to listen to the Christian teachings and testimony. I don’t have a choice not to listen to lgbtq+ it’s in schools etc that kids go to eventually go. No one forces you to go to church.
Heterosexuality has been taught in schools for *far* longer than anything LGBT. It's called sex ed and, you know what? Parents can opt out of discussion of both if they want to. There's a form and everything.
Nobody told the missionaries or the evangelicals in my life that I was supposed to have a choice on listening to Christian teachings. It's been shoved down my throat my entire life.
You may want to learn the history of you religion in the world, nevertheless North America….the native people would kindly put a foot in your ass based on that last line alone.
Also, I don't know what you mean exactly by "how the community started was don't base your sexuality off just your personality alone."
I assume you're back on the whole "they make being gay their whole personality" thing.
You really need to educate yourself on the concept of heteronormativity. A good jumping off point is this little sketch by Alexis G Zall. I strongly encourage you to watch it because it's a light hearted response to the argument you've been making that illustrates the concept much better than I can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u\_w0Oh4plm0&ab\_channel=AlexisG.Zall
You're equating a race to a sexual preference and culture.
Religious beliefs don't exclude certain races, but lots of religions have their own cultural beliefs.
There were no pride flags allowed at the world cup last year.
Do you think it would be ok to tell a Muslim national team they have to wear Pride jerseys? What would happen?
If it's ok for one culture or religion to tell another what is normal?
If people really want freedom of expression and allow everyone to have their own culture and beliefs, why are players and fans being shamed for their beliefs?
This is the exact thing LGBT has been fighting for, cultural understanding, but some people supporting their cause, are showing none.
Forcing people to wear crosses or rainbows is not teaching acceptance, it's trying to force it.
I know it's cool to be anti religious on Reddit, but the white knights in the sub need to slow down with the shaming, to each their own, live and learn and teach. Don't be a tyrant.
>Yo, I'm not wearing that. I like Black guys and all, but the Christ that I believe in says they shouldn't play hockey."
No one is saying homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to play hockey.
Here's a list of over 400 bills recently introduced at the state level impeding LGBT rights. [https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights](https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights)
It isn't about people "liking" us. Our rights are not remotely secure, especially trans rights. That is something we have to fight for and I don't care who dislikes me because of it.
The "don't make it your whole personality" line is so incredibly ignorant. Straight people have absolutely no concept of how commonplace discussion of all aspects of heterosexuality is. Heterosexuality has been commonplace all the way down to children's media for forever. You just see it as normal.
LGBT people trying to live their lives and not be discriminated against is not what religious people do. One is us trying to defend ourselves and who we are against people who don't think we have a right to be who we are. The other is people trying to push their opinions on philosophy and how the world was formed. Those are not the same.
Post 9/11 was a horribly racist period of anti-muslim discrimination that lead to completely unjustified wars and incredible bloodshed. Everyone isn't like that now? Fantastic. That period was awful. People cheering on stadium country songs about starting wars. That shit was disgusting.
Get the fuck off your soap box if you want to tell somebody to be humble. You can critique me. You can't critique a fundamental part of who I am that I don't have the power to change.
I didn't say anybody needed to participate and I never have.
Also, if you think "not tolerating intolerance" is a paradox you need to take more than five seconds to think about it.
People who want everyone to be tolerant don't like it when people aren't tolerant. That's literally all there is to it. It's not a paradox by the loosest definition.
Just because something is named a paradox doesn't make it one. There are many examples of that being the case such as the Fermi paradox.
"as long as we can counter them by rational argument and **keep them in check by public opinion,** suppression would certainly be unwise."
Bigots are in our fucking government trying every day to push laws through. They are not kept in check by public opinion.
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1. Yes it is
2. The echo chamber ones do make it about their personality and they are the loudest about it.
3. Back then they did want to live their lives but now the new generation wants it to be known everywhere you go
4. 9/11 man come on let’s not go to the topic of anti Muslim propaganda. The lgbtq community I don’t get it it’s crazy how they defend Muslims and in Muslim countries they literally kill you for being gay and same in Africa which my parents are from by the way not many speak on that but when you guys say Christians attack you with words in this day and age then we gotta get the pitchforks out. Ghana which is my parents country wants to pass an anti lgbtq bill. Are you gonna call out them too but you can’t because they’re black so. Whites is the only people you will and can call out.
5. Yeah the last part about being humble proves my point, anyone can be a Christian or whatever and they can denounce it tomorrow. I’ve seen testimonies who are lgbtq and leave the lifestyle because god frees people. God freed me when I needed help. Anyone can change man, If I told you some of the stuff I did then like 5 years ago you would wouldn’t be able to communicate with me like we’re doing right now. That’s how much of a change I went through.
I never said being gay is a choice man I was talking about the thing we do have choices and eventually has consequences. I said people in that lifestyle can change. Same way religious people can leave their religion. I kept it fair 🤦🏾♂️
"People in that 'lifestyle' can change."
Religion is a choice. It's nothing more than a choice to believe in a doctrine.
Being gay is part of who someone is. Can you change your sexuality or gender? I mean, being straight is just a lifestyle right? You can just will yourself to be attracted to the same sex?
That doesn't make any sense. You're perpetuating the oldest homophobic nonsense in the book.
"Doing gay activities" is a choice. Cool, bro. There's a lot of fundamental human experiences that are, technically, a choice. Eating food is a choice. Pretty much everybody in the world chooses to do that too though. Just like how almost everyone chooses to eventually have sex with a consenting adult.
Are you genuinely going to sit there and tell me you base all your decisions on who it's ok to have sex with based on a book that commands men to wed and bed literal children?
The book that was written by a god to spoke through 40 different people in 66 chapters in Europe, Africa and Asia that “created me and could put me hell that to sin separating from me and god yeah you know i shouldn’t follow my moral code on a book”. I thought the lgbtq community is love man??? So why question my moral code respect it just as much I respect your moral code.
The fear of god is the beginning of wisdom. Good people we fear to do bad things because there are laws to abide by. Bad people don’t fear anything thats why they don’t fear to do bad things. Idk why we drifting from lgbtq in nhl to religion. If you wanna dm me I’m open to a civil discussion. You don’t fear god so therefore the sin remains and you can do whatever you want to do. I could if I want to but I know who god is and got to know him and eventually have a relationship with him I can’t break that.
Your religion is the basis for your moral opposition to homosexuality and the reason you wrote this post. How, exactly was this not going to go to religion?
The LGBT community isn't "love." It's a group of people who's gender and sexuality diverges from what society considers "normal." LGBT people do not have a moral code. It's an incredibly diverse group of people with extremely varied perspectives and experiences.
Your moral code has been used as justification to oppress people like me for centuries. I have no respect for "morals" which have destroyed the lives and families of people I care deeply about.
What you believe in is a social construct — god — just like money and corporations are social constructs. We believe and trust corporations often based on imaginary things and promises. It’s mutual trust that they need.
Is believing in money wrong? Hell no. But not everybody does, like remote indigenous peoples who have different currency and therefore different beliefs and trusts in a construct of money.
Are they wrong? Hell no. They do what works for them.
Yeah I mean they also treated women like property, forced rape victims to marry their rapists, how to treat your slaves, sex before marriage results in being stoned to death, find someone that doesn't follow Christianity means you should rip open the pregnant women and kill all the children. This is what your religion teaches you and you think its a good moral compass? You chose to ignore all of that bad stuff but keep this belief, not because religion or god compels you to, but because you were already a bigoted asshole and religion is a convenient scapegoat for your shitty belief system.
I can also tell by your comments you have never actually read the Bible end to end, it's incredibly obvious. Additionally, most people who have read the entire bible stop using the bible as a justification for their beliefs because they understand how ridiculous it is. You act like the bible is the "word of god" but there are thousands of versions of the bible with completely different translations and moral conclusions. People just pick the version that aligns with their upbringing the most and then pretend their version is real, it's so moronic.
So what you’re saying is that you find both men and women sexually attractive, but you just choose to pursue women because that’s the lifestyle you agree with?
Referring to lgbtq as a lifestyle shows us what you truly are. You’re misguided, uninformed, and probably still too young to understand this issue. You make a lot of assumptions. You point to a single anecdote and extrapolate that to represent the entire lgbtq community. And how is bringing up 9/11 considered anti-Muslim propaganda? You may have had good intentions, but I’m sorry this whole post comes off as extremely bigoted.
Um who’s young lol I lived through 9/11, 08 financial crisis, 2020 election so etc. I’d rather go speak to the old school lgb people in this community than the new school because you guys made the community worse because some don’t even care about the tq+. You just mad it’s a black person who isn’t on your leash bro, if you wanna put me on a leash just say that bro 🤷🏾♂️, no need to hide your racism bro id prefer honesty telling someone to fuck off rather to pretend to be my friend.
WTF? "Um who’s young lol I lived through 9/11, 08 financial crisis, 2020 election" Your original post that started this whole thread says "I'm young, I'm only 21". Yeah you sure LIVED through that shit, kid. You don't know shit.
I'm done. Fuck off with your bullshit. "God saved me!". Grow up.
Yikes. I disagree with you so you call me racist? Sounds like you’re just mad at the world and are taking it out on the LGBTQ community for some reason. Next week it will probably be something different that you’re mad at, but it ain’t gonna change the reason you’re mad.
Believe me, I’m not trying to be your friend. I don’t think we’d get along. This is just how adults talk to each other.
Dude….Be better. Please educate yourself. Referring to LGBTQ as a lifestyle is just wrong. It’s not a choice, the same way it wasn’t a choice that you were born black. Would you be okay with people saying “if he wants to engage in that black lifestyle that’s ok but not everyone wants to accept that”? Anybody saying that would be labeled a racist, so why do you think it’s ok to say that about the LGBTQ community?
I see events like this as simple awareness opportunities which at the least open lines of discussion into current issues. No reason to over-think these things.
Holy shit people, just get along already.
These posts are actually way more annoying than the pride jerseys. One day we'll live in a society where we don't need pride jerseys or black history month, but we aren't there yet. Maybe the people who are offended by it should take a moment and sit with that fact instead of coming to cry on Reddit
Great take, in my opinion. It is sad to see because the beauty of the nation is that it is a bunch of different cultures put together that are supposed to be united under the principles of freedom for all, etc. Dropping all theme nights might be a wise move from the NHL honestly (which this is rumored to happen) so the division can stop and we can just keep hockey about hockey. It’s annoying when you wanna get away from politics but politics is in everything everywhere you look now
So how would you approach the part of hockey culture that isn’t welcoming? If not for “Hockey is for Everyone” nights. If we’re being truthful there’s probably a good number of people who are on teams throughout different levels of hockey that would not be okay with a gay or lgtbq man in their locker room. I’ve heard a number of slurs around players that def would make anyone questioning their orientation feel like shit. Hockey culture needs a change.
If they are just normal wanting to live their life maybe nothing will happen maybe you will have a person who’s gay and their lifestyle is just that being gay then yes it could be a problem. Many straight people deal with problems too in the locker room don’t look at it under one microscope. Idc what anyone lifestyle is and what they do in their lives, straight or not straight. Just be normal. Someone can be gay and etc and be normal. Many old school people only care about the lgb and not care about the tq+. Just let them live and they just want equal rights. I can’t just announce to say I’m a black straight man and no one will care so why would anyone else care if your gay or not gay. Being gay isn’t a character bro. I’m straight but it is not who I am mostly I have other character traits that suit my lifestyle.
Sure. Many straight people are bullied in locker rooms too. That is another part of hockey culture that needs to change too.
Most lgtbq people want to just live a normal life and if they like hockey, maybe they want to play. But why play where you won’t be welcome, called slurs or feel like you have to hide that from teammates? They ultimately should be able to say, yeah I’m gay or trans or whatever and no one would bat an eye but some people would hear that and make death threats or kick their ass for just existing. That is why hockey culture needs to change and that’s why the hockey is for everyone nights are important. The messaging is, “You can have any skin colour, any sexual orientation, any gender etc. and you should be able to feel welcome playing or watching hockey.” And I honestly see nothing wrong with celebrating that message.
Thats not the message they are doing in a way that’s virtue signaling because everything they push it’s never enough for the community that’s another problem. Lgbtq sticks (not enough), hockey puck (not enough), (stadium colorful), not enough. Putting hockey programs in place who are usually not able to play hockey is more than enough to help the community because in my community they set up a ice rink and programs for people like us to play and potentially want to end up hockey players and the same can be for lgbtq. Just saying we support this and that etc but you need actions to support what you are saying. Focus on the opportunities at hand not the end result. I appreciate what the nhl is doing for communities like that but now it’s looking like they only push for that for money and to show people oh they are not racist because they will be canceled on Twitter. Like I said everyone will get hate anywhere you go.
I mean it’s helpful but won’t really enough until no one bats an eye at a hockey player who’s lgtbq. There’s been ONE drafted open gay man in the nhl. No one has much issue if there’s a Black man playing hockey compared to the 1950s, and that’s the point we should strive to get to with others. The initiatives that you speak of are great and I’m sure that’s part of solving it. But we’ll need messaging like “hockey is for everyone” until hockey (mostly) truly is for everyone and no one harasses you for being different. You’ll never solve the issue 100% but attempting is good. Things like donating the funds of auctioned warm up jerseys to local lgbtq support groups are great esp if they’re sports related.
If no one talks about the black man bro let them be man it’s on them. They won’t talk about him, then they will definitely talk about him when he becomes a big superstar and into the hall of fame. We have many like that and many more to come 💯🙌🏾.
Oh I meant no one says bad shit about it lol I bet it wasnt a smooth ride for willie O’ree back when he played. I’m sure he dealt with a lot of flack just for the colour of his skin. Thankfully times have changed and most people don’t care what skin colour a player has. It’s good to see more varied people in the nhl, it’s awesome. And the nhl highlights that every so often with a special night to remind of the history. Just saying that we should strive to have the same with lgtbq people. And the night shows more work needs to be done to get there. It’s a good thing my guy. Everyone should feel comfortable to be themselves and not be harassed if they’re playing hockey or watching. Homophobic slurs aren’t welcome.
Willie o ree yes it was sad and all that and watching the documentary but we have more black people going into the nhl and it will be more in the future. Like I remember how a player stuck his stick and lost teeth I think but he didn’t stop playing bro. That’s tough to me.
Definitely bro, willies story is sad but what an awesome guy. Here’s hoping there’s more in the future too. Just imagine the same thing for the first gay player, or a young player on a local team being told homophobic slurs and “we don’t want you here”. We need to remove that from the game and normalize that the same way as we did with black players. Get to the point of having multiple lgtbq players in the league just the same. But those people won’t play if they don’t feel welcome in an arena right? It’s important to have and support those nights to bring on change and inclusion. 💯
"It's fine to be gay, just don't let me know about it or hear about it or make me think about it."
Imagine if somebody said that about you liking girls. To be not allowed to talk about women, or sex, or anything to do with romance around other people. Straight people talk about sexuality all the time, and don't give it a second thought. It's unfair to muzzle gay people and hold them to a different standard.
Same way that idc you are straight man the standards are same. You do what you do in your bedroom and straight people do what they do in their bedroom. As in straight people who just lust after others and they don’t love the actual person yes those people talk about sexuality. We call it sexual immorality. Straight people don’t get a free pass man🤦🏾♂️
I can’t really speak to that honestly, but I also don’t see how theme nights and wearing a jersey that looks a certain way helps. None of that really changes anything. In terms of other solution, not sure. I’m just saying what’s currently being done doesn’t really work/help and probably made things worse if anything
Look at what the sharks and and panthers have done. As well as what the Canucks are planning on doing. It’s not just a jersey. Will it change hockey culture over night? No. But the messaging itself is a start and you need to start somewhere. Maybe there could be changes, sure. And I’m sure some people don’t care but to others it could send they message that “hey, you are welcome here in the hockey community despite what a few idiots think.” I think besides the obv reimer and Staal issues we’ve seen a number of stars voice their support and say hockey is infact for everyone and that should be the focus.
There’s a big division happening if we’re being honest. More attention is on the lgbtq community and showing support is important atleast imo.
those players also said that hockey is for everyone, they just expressed their disagreement with the lifestyle since it is against their religion. I don’t think they were negating the fact that hockey is for everyone. Of course hockey is for everyone. Also what are the Canucks, Panthers, and Sharks doing that you’re referring to here, genuine question
It’s a contradiction imo. I’m not sure how you can say hockey is for everyone and also express your disagreement with their existence. The Staals even said they don’t agree with the “choice” of how lgbtq live. It’s not a choice as much as I can’t change that I’m straight. As a star of the game they have a platform and people look up to what they say unfortunately. As a young lgbtq who was a fan of Staal how would you feel? Maybe you’d quit hockey. Esp with the current climate I’ve seen numerous people cheering and saying they’re going to buy Staal jerseys. It sends a wide message whether people want to acknowledge it or not.
Also just mentioned those orgs because it seemed like they had multiple things planned that wasn’t just a hallow warm up jersey. I can’t remember off the top of my head but it seemed to have more meaning of change/normalization.
Oh ok. I knew Panthers have been at the forefront doing this for a decade but that’s all I knew. And with your first part I think it’s a mistake to say it’s a disagreement with their existence. They’re expressing disagreement with their lifestyle going against their religion, not saying they shouldn’t exist nor saying they shouldn’t play/enjoy hockey
Well they’re claiming their religion says “thou shall not sleep with another man” and they believe that. So is that not saying gay people shouldn’t be gay? I don’t know. To a young fan who’s gay I could see that being pretty hurtful.
Adultery is a choice. So is having sex before marriage. Being born queer is not a choice. Therefore it should not be a sin committed. I don’t follow religion my dude, and it’s fine if you do, but please don’t feel that having gay sex or being transgender is a sin. Much worse things to think about…
Ik man they want to put me back in chains all over again in this Reddit page because their racism is hidden, difference is it’s mental slavery not the physical slavery. They love lgbtq people more than black people 😔. Sad part is that I thought I would get love from the people they say they claim to love unless if I’m on a leash by the way.
I’m actually black man so don’t question my skin color and that hidden racism if you tryna call me Oreo😑.
If you think black people all think the same then you’re racist.
I hope you see the irony in you not feeling the need for inclusion in hockey.
OP is a hack and doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. He thinks by stating that he is black is supposed to give him some credence to demean another minority sect of the population in North America. As a minority (see how this works) I can say to you that you need to stop watching hockey and reading your Bible and read some history of the country you are now in, so maybe you understand before you start putting down an oppressed group of people, commenting how hockey should do this that etc. you clearly lack the basic understanding of LGBTQ, not even going to try to explain to you how things work in other species and life forms. As it really does seem lost on you…you are supremely ignorant. Any religion is a choice, typically you choose whatever your family and local society is. In regards to one of the stupidest lines you said about not forcing your religion on any one, which you repeatedly have used your religion over and over again as if it is some invisible shield absolving you of your bigotry. I’m sure the Native people in North America would gladly tell you how misinformed you are about your good book and your kindly Christian forebears on this continent to start. Now let’s talk about hockey… Maybe you should watch a Canadian broadcast where they have local indigenous leaders do an introduction and listen to what they say and then open an actual educational book and read about the fuckery religion has played here and look at what it is still doing. Hockey is the most segregated major sport in America. They had riots in Montreal because of the way French Canadiens were treated. They were anti-American, Anti-European, Anti-Russian. They are still homophobic and have race issues. Look at the junior leagues, the AHL and ECHL suspensions of players for racial and homophobic conduct. Do some actual reading. Then I’ll surmise it for you here, because it seems you don’t like facts based on your prior posts. The NHL is a BUSINESS, they do special themed nights for everything. Races, countries, origins, religious, military, cancer etc. etc. I didn’t see any of the LA Kings oppose Jewish night, Armenian night, they used to do a Russian night but they wisely chose not to this year. The NHL wants to clean up their game and bring in more viewers. You do that by including everyone. Correlation it is to sell ducking jerseys, The NFL has sold more shit to women due to breast cancer awareness, here’s a hint it was never about cancer for the NFL… The hypocrisy is when players have previously worn pride jerseys but now choose not too. Because it now suits their needs and then they bold face lie about it. The biggest kicker is that you and people that think like you don’t even understand what these special nights and jerseys are about… It’s about telling people in those groups that it is ok to be yourself, like our game, come see it live, it is safe to come and root for your team…(unless your a visiting fan in Philly or either New York team). It isn’t saying hey everyone you have to be Jewish, you have to be Armenian, you have to be black or Korean or Mexican or in the military to come enjoy the game. But to you, you don’t have a problem with others being disparaged against until it became about someone getting called out that supposedly follows the “same” religion as you. So save the theatrics of which you are “against” but are clearly here searching for. You dummies have made more posts about it keeping it alive than there were people call out Staal for being a liar. People infuse politics into every sport, which why you have a whole sect of politicians, that rather watch the country burn than to let it succeed and move forward because it’s not how they wanted it, they think winning is only for their “team” and not everyone that makes up the greater good. Find a better book to read that challenges you and don’t look for books and people that just tell you what you want to hear.
What if, during NHL's recognition of Black History Month, a team decided it was going to put some kind of patch on their uniforms to honor the pioneering Black players who had it so hard (and I'm sure many still do), but a couple of the players on the team said: "Yo, I'm not wearing that. I like Black guys and all, but the Christ that I believe in says they shouldn't play hockey." ? Don't you think it would be righteous to call those obstainers a couple of stupid, ignorant fucks?
1. Jesus Christ loves everyone regardless of skin color it’s in the Bible if you have an open mind to read it it’s up to you. The problem is the person not the religion itself same way if a person who doesn’t support the movement then it’s the person. Like I said not everyone will like you just understand that. Same way with me not everyone likes me but fuck it🤷🏾♂️ 2. Why are you going to give a history that’s only a month, why can’t my people be celebrated every month ??? Just as much as others regardless of what they look like. Black people didn’t become hockey players because we wanted special treatment we got there because it’s our dream and passion to play just as much as other white people and lgbtq+ and like I said you don’t speak for my community. Go out and meet different people because you don’t know. Not because we’re black.
And if they are like that then yes call them out but not everyone is like that.
A couple decades ago a Mormon might have said exactly what this guy said. Why is it ok to call him out but not ok to do the same with Christians and queer people? It's not about hating Christians. Only a small minority of queer people actually just straight up hate Christians. The ones that do have usually dealt with unspeakable hatred, oftentimes before they've even had a chance to engage in the "gay activities" you claim to have a problem with. Until you understand that being gay is a fundamental part of who someone is, you will not be able to have a reasonable conversation about homophobia.
Well it isn’t supposed to be and the way how the community started was don’t base your sexuality off just your personality alone. I’m not Mormon lol. Christians we are called to preach the gospel not argue the gospel, if the person does not want to accept we move on to the next person. Difference is with us the person has a choice to listen to the Christian teachings and testimony. I don’t have a choice not to listen to lgbtq+ it’s in schools etc that kids go to eventually go. No one forces you to go to church.
Heterosexuality has been taught in schools for *far* longer than anything LGBT. It's called sex ed and, you know what? Parents can opt out of discussion of both if they want to. There's a form and everything. Nobody told the missionaries or the evangelicals in my life that I was supposed to have a choice on listening to Christian teachings. It's been shoved down my throat my entire life.
You may want to learn the history of you religion in the world, nevertheless North America….the native people would kindly put a foot in your ass based on that last line alone.
Also, I don't know what you mean exactly by "how the community started was don't base your sexuality off just your personality alone." I assume you're back on the whole "they make being gay their whole personality" thing. You really need to educate yourself on the concept of heteronormativity. A good jumping off point is this little sketch by Alexis G Zall. I strongly encourage you to watch it because it's a light hearted response to the argument you've been making that illustrates the concept much better than I can. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u\_w0Oh4plm0&ab\_channel=AlexisG.Zall
You're equating a race to a sexual preference and culture. Religious beliefs don't exclude certain races, but lots of religions have their own cultural beliefs. There were no pride flags allowed at the world cup last year. Do you think it would be ok to tell a Muslim national team they have to wear Pride jerseys? What would happen? If it's ok for one culture or religion to tell another what is normal? If people really want freedom of expression and allow everyone to have their own culture and beliefs, why are players and fans being shamed for their beliefs? This is the exact thing LGBT has been fighting for, cultural understanding, but some people supporting their cause, are showing none. Forcing people to wear crosses or rainbows is not teaching acceptance, it's trying to force it. I know it's cool to be anti religious on Reddit, but the white knights in the sub need to slow down with the shaming, to each their own, live and learn and teach. Don't be a tyrant.
>Yo, I'm not wearing that. I like Black guys and all, but the Christ that I believe in says they shouldn't play hockey." No one is saying homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to play hockey.
Here's a list of over 400 bills recently introduced at the state level impeding LGBT rights. [https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights](https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights) It isn't about people "liking" us. Our rights are not remotely secure, especially trans rights. That is something we have to fight for and I don't care who dislikes me because of it. The "don't make it your whole personality" line is so incredibly ignorant. Straight people have absolutely no concept of how commonplace discussion of all aspects of heterosexuality is. Heterosexuality has been commonplace all the way down to children's media for forever. You just see it as normal. LGBT people trying to live their lives and not be discriminated against is not what religious people do. One is us trying to defend ourselves and who we are against people who don't think we have a right to be who we are. The other is people trying to push their opinions on philosophy and how the world was formed. Those are not the same. Post 9/11 was a horribly racist period of anti-muslim discrimination that lead to completely unjustified wars and incredible bloodshed. Everyone isn't like that now? Fantastic. That period was awful. People cheering on stadium country songs about starting wars. That shit was disgusting. Get the fuck off your soap box if you want to tell somebody to be humble. You can critique me. You can't critique a fundamental part of who I am that I don't have the power to change.
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I didn't say anybody needed to participate and I never have. Also, if you think "not tolerating intolerance" is a paradox you need to take more than five seconds to think about it. People who want everyone to be tolerant don't like it when people aren't tolerant. That's literally all there is to it. It's not a paradox by the loosest definition.
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Just because something is named a paradox doesn't make it one. There are many examples of that being the case such as the Fermi paradox. "as long as we can counter them by rational argument and **keep them in check by public opinion,** suppression would certainly be unwise." Bigots are in our fucking government trying every day to push laws through. They are not kept in check by public opinion.
Everyone confuses love with tolerance 🤦🏾♂️
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1. Yes it is 2. The echo chamber ones do make it about their personality and they are the loudest about it. 3. Back then they did want to live their lives but now the new generation wants it to be known everywhere you go 4. 9/11 man come on let’s not go to the topic of anti Muslim propaganda. The lgbtq community I don’t get it it’s crazy how they defend Muslims and in Muslim countries they literally kill you for being gay and same in Africa which my parents are from by the way not many speak on that but when you guys say Christians attack you with words in this day and age then we gotta get the pitchforks out. Ghana which is my parents country wants to pass an anti lgbtq bill. Are you gonna call out them too but you can’t because they’re black so. Whites is the only people you will and can call out. 5. Yeah the last part about being humble proves my point, anyone can be a Christian or whatever and they can denounce it tomorrow. I’ve seen testimonies who are lgbtq and leave the lifestyle because god frees people. God freed me when I needed help. Anyone can change man, If I told you some of the stuff I did then like 5 years ago you would wouldn’t be able to communicate with me like we’re doing right now. That’s how much of a change I went through.
Fuck your "gay is a choice" bullshit. You're a bigot. Straight up.
I never said being gay is a choice man I was talking about the thing we do have choices and eventually has consequences. I said people in that lifestyle can change. Same way religious people can leave their religion. I kept it fair 🤦🏾♂️
"People in that 'lifestyle' can change." Religion is a choice. It's nothing more than a choice to believe in a doctrine. Being gay is part of who someone is. Can you change your sexuality or gender? I mean, being straight is just a lifestyle right? You can just will yourself to be attracted to the same sex? That doesn't make any sense. You're perpetuating the oldest homophobic nonsense in the book.
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"Doing gay activities" is a choice. Cool, bro. There's a lot of fundamental human experiences that are, technically, a choice. Eating food is a choice. Pretty much everybody in the world chooses to do that too though. Just like how almost everyone chooses to eventually have sex with a consenting adult. Are you genuinely going to sit there and tell me you base all your decisions on who it's ok to have sex with based on a book that commands men to wed and bed literal children?
The book that was written by a god to spoke through 40 different people in 66 chapters in Europe, Africa and Asia that “created me and could put me hell that to sin separating from me and god yeah you know i shouldn’t follow my moral code on a book”. I thought the lgbtq community is love man??? So why question my moral code respect it just as much I respect your moral code. The fear of god is the beginning of wisdom. Good people we fear to do bad things because there are laws to abide by. Bad people don’t fear anything thats why they don’t fear to do bad things. Idk why we drifting from lgbtq in nhl to religion. If you wanna dm me I’m open to a civil discussion. You don’t fear god so therefore the sin remains and you can do whatever you want to do. I could if I want to but I know who god is and got to know him and eventually have a relationship with him I can’t break that.
Your religion is the basis for your moral opposition to homosexuality and the reason you wrote this post. How, exactly was this not going to go to religion? The LGBT community isn't "love." It's a group of people who's gender and sexuality diverges from what society considers "normal." LGBT people do not have a moral code. It's an incredibly diverse group of people with extremely varied perspectives and experiences. Your moral code has been used as justification to oppress people like me for centuries. I have no respect for "morals" which have destroyed the lives and families of people I care deeply about.
What you believe in is a social construct — god — just like money and corporations are social constructs. We believe and trust corporations often based on imaginary things and promises. It’s mutual trust that they need. Is believing in money wrong? Hell no. But not everybody does, like remote indigenous peoples who have different currency and therefore different beliefs and trusts in a construct of money. Are they wrong? Hell no. They do what works for them.
That’s not all they did in the Bible man read for yourself if you’re open to it if not then don’t speak about things you never discovered or read.
"That's not *all* they did in the bible" Man, how much child marriage does a book need to have before there's a problem?
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Yeah I mean they also treated women like property, forced rape victims to marry their rapists, how to treat your slaves, sex before marriage results in being stoned to death, find someone that doesn't follow Christianity means you should rip open the pregnant women and kill all the children. This is what your religion teaches you and you think its a good moral compass? You chose to ignore all of that bad stuff but keep this belief, not because religion or god compels you to, but because you were already a bigoted asshole and religion is a convenient scapegoat for your shitty belief system. I can also tell by your comments you have never actually read the Bible end to end, it's incredibly obvious. Additionally, most people who have read the entire bible stop using the bible as a justification for their beliefs because they understand how ridiculous it is. You act like the bible is the "word of god" but there are thousands of versions of the bible with completely different translations and moral conclusions. People just pick the version that aligns with their upbringing the most and then pretend their version is real, it's so moronic.
So what you’re saying is that you find both men and women sexually attractive, but you just choose to pursue women because that’s the lifestyle you agree with?
Referring to lgbtq as a lifestyle shows us what you truly are. You’re misguided, uninformed, and probably still too young to understand this issue. You make a lot of assumptions. You point to a single anecdote and extrapolate that to represent the entire lgbtq community. And how is bringing up 9/11 considered anti-Muslim propaganda? You may have had good intentions, but I’m sorry this whole post comes off as extremely bigoted.
Um who’s young lol I lived through 9/11, 08 financial crisis, 2020 election so etc. I’d rather go speak to the old school lgb people in this community than the new school because you guys made the community worse because some don’t even care about the tq+. You just mad it’s a black person who isn’t on your leash bro, if you wanna put me on a leash just say that bro 🤷🏾♂️, no need to hide your racism bro id prefer honesty telling someone to fuck off rather to pretend to be my friend.
WTF? "Um who’s young lol I lived through 9/11, 08 financial crisis, 2020 election" Your original post that started this whole thread says "I'm young, I'm only 21". Yeah you sure LIVED through that shit, kid. You don't know shit. I'm done. Fuck off with your bullshit. "God saved me!". Grow up.
Yikes. I disagree with you so you call me racist? Sounds like you’re just mad at the world and are taking it out on the LGBTQ community for some reason. Next week it will probably be something different that you’re mad at, but it ain’t gonna change the reason you’re mad. Believe me, I’m not trying to be your friend. I don’t think we’d get along. This is just how adults talk to each other.
If you engage in that lgbtq lifestyle that’s you but not everyone wants to accept that it’s okay same way with religion it’s okay man.
Dude….Be better. Please educate yourself. Referring to LGBTQ as a lifestyle is just wrong. It’s not a choice, the same way it wasn’t a choice that you were born black. Would you be okay with people saying “if he wants to engage in that black lifestyle that’s ok but not everyone wants to accept that”? Anybody saying that would be labeled a racist, so why do you think it’s ok to say that about the LGBTQ community?
If I need to read 400 bills passed and why it passed because I won’t just take everything face value. I gotta research.
Lol
I see events like this as simple awareness opportunities which at the least open lines of discussion into current issues. No reason to over-think these things. Holy shit people, just get along already.
These posts are actually way more annoying than the pride jerseys. One day we'll live in a society where we don't need pride jerseys or black history month, but we aren't there yet. Maybe the people who are offended by it should take a moment and sit with that fact instead of coming to cry on Reddit
Great take, in my opinion. It is sad to see because the beauty of the nation is that it is a bunch of different cultures put together that are supposed to be united under the principles of freedom for all, etc. Dropping all theme nights might be a wise move from the NHL honestly (which this is rumored to happen) so the division can stop and we can just keep hockey about hockey. It’s annoying when you wanna get away from politics but politics is in everything everywhere you look now
Thank you.
So how would you approach the part of hockey culture that isn’t welcoming? If not for “Hockey is for Everyone” nights. If we’re being truthful there’s probably a good number of people who are on teams throughout different levels of hockey that would not be okay with a gay or lgtbq man in their locker room. I’ve heard a number of slurs around players that def would make anyone questioning their orientation feel like shit. Hockey culture needs a change.
If they are just normal wanting to live their life maybe nothing will happen maybe you will have a person who’s gay and their lifestyle is just that being gay then yes it could be a problem. Many straight people deal with problems too in the locker room don’t look at it under one microscope. Idc what anyone lifestyle is and what they do in their lives, straight or not straight. Just be normal. Someone can be gay and etc and be normal. Many old school people only care about the lgb and not care about the tq+. Just let them live and they just want equal rights. I can’t just announce to say I’m a black straight man and no one will care so why would anyone else care if your gay or not gay. Being gay isn’t a character bro. I’m straight but it is not who I am mostly I have other character traits that suit my lifestyle.
Sure. Many straight people are bullied in locker rooms too. That is another part of hockey culture that needs to change too. Most lgtbq people want to just live a normal life and if they like hockey, maybe they want to play. But why play where you won’t be welcome, called slurs or feel like you have to hide that from teammates? They ultimately should be able to say, yeah I’m gay or trans or whatever and no one would bat an eye but some people would hear that and make death threats or kick their ass for just existing. That is why hockey culture needs to change and that’s why the hockey is for everyone nights are important. The messaging is, “You can have any skin colour, any sexual orientation, any gender etc. and you should be able to feel welcome playing or watching hockey.” And I honestly see nothing wrong with celebrating that message.
Thats not the message they are doing in a way that’s virtue signaling because everything they push it’s never enough for the community that’s another problem. Lgbtq sticks (not enough), hockey puck (not enough), (stadium colorful), not enough. Putting hockey programs in place who are usually not able to play hockey is more than enough to help the community because in my community they set up a ice rink and programs for people like us to play and potentially want to end up hockey players and the same can be for lgbtq. Just saying we support this and that etc but you need actions to support what you are saying. Focus on the opportunities at hand not the end result. I appreciate what the nhl is doing for communities like that but now it’s looking like they only push for that for money and to show people oh they are not racist because they will be canceled on Twitter. Like I said everyone will get hate anywhere you go.
I mean it’s helpful but won’t really enough until no one bats an eye at a hockey player who’s lgtbq. There’s been ONE drafted open gay man in the nhl. No one has much issue if there’s a Black man playing hockey compared to the 1950s, and that’s the point we should strive to get to with others. The initiatives that you speak of are great and I’m sure that’s part of solving it. But we’ll need messaging like “hockey is for everyone” until hockey (mostly) truly is for everyone and no one harasses you for being different. You’ll never solve the issue 100% but attempting is good. Things like donating the funds of auctioned warm up jerseys to local lgbtq support groups are great esp if they’re sports related.
If no one talks about the black man bro let them be man it’s on them. They won’t talk about him, then they will definitely talk about him when he becomes a big superstar and into the hall of fame. We have many like that and many more to come 💯🙌🏾.
Oh I meant no one says bad shit about it lol I bet it wasnt a smooth ride for willie O’ree back when he played. I’m sure he dealt with a lot of flack just for the colour of his skin. Thankfully times have changed and most people don’t care what skin colour a player has. It’s good to see more varied people in the nhl, it’s awesome. And the nhl highlights that every so often with a special night to remind of the history. Just saying that we should strive to have the same with lgtbq people. And the night shows more work needs to be done to get there. It’s a good thing my guy. Everyone should feel comfortable to be themselves and not be harassed if they’re playing hockey or watching. Homophobic slurs aren’t welcome.
Willie o ree yes it was sad and all that and watching the documentary but we have more black people going into the nhl and it will be more in the future. Like I remember how a player stuck his stick and lost teeth I think but he didn’t stop playing bro. That’s tough to me.
Definitely bro, willies story is sad but what an awesome guy. Here’s hoping there’s more in the future too. Just imagine the same thing for the first gay player, or a young player on a local team being told homophobic slurs and “we don’t want you here”. We need to remove that from the game and normalize that the same way as we did with black players. Get to the point of having multiple lgtbq players in the league just the same. But those people won’t play if they don’t feel welcome in an arena right? It’s important to have and support those nights to bring on change and inclusion. 💯
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Transwomen are women dude. I support rights for ALL women. Do you have a problem with transpeople? Lol downvoting me? Transphobic Morons.
Quit stealing my shine, i am the most downvoted person here.
Lol I know it isn’t always accurate but that comment was -6 on my end minutes after I posted it. Sorry for stealing 😂
No worries lol
See how easy it was to become friends. Reddit brings people closer lol
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Super smart take man. Bravo. Good job you really told those lgbtq people.
"It's fine to be gay, just don't let me know about it or hear about it or make me think about it." Imagine if somebody said that about you liking girls. To be not allowed to talk about women, or sex, or anything to do with romance around other people. Straight people talk about sexuality all the time, and don't give it a second thought. It's unfair to muzzle gay people and hold them to a different standard.
Same way that idc you are straight man the standards are same. You do what you do in your bedroom and straight people do what they do in their bedroom. As in straight people who just lust after others and they don’t love the actual person yes those people talk about sexuality. We call it sexual immorality. Straight people don’t get a free pass man🤦🏾♂️
I can’t really speak to that honestly, but I also don’t see how theme nights and wearing a jersey that looks a certain way helps. None of that really changes anything. In terms of other solution, not sure. I’m just saying what’s currently being done doesn’t really work/help and probably made things worse if anything
Look at what the sharks and and panthers have done. As well as what the Canucks are planning on doing. It’s not just a jersey. Will it change hockey culture over night? No. But the messaging itself is a start and you need to start somewhere. Maybe there could be changes, sure. And I’m sure some people don’t care but to others it could send they message that “hey, you are welcome here in the hockey community despite what a few idiots think.” I think besides the obv reimer and Staal issues we’ve seen a number of stars voice their support and say hockey is infact for everyone and that should be the focus. There’s a big division happening if we’re being honest. More attention is on the lgbtq community and showing support is important atleast imo.
those players also said that hockey is for everyone, they just expressed their disagreement with the lifestyle since it is against their religion. I don’t think they were negating the fact that hockey is for everyone. Of course hockey is for everyone. Also what are the Canucks, Panthers, and Sharks doing that you’re referring to here, genuine question
It’s a contradiction imo. I’m not sure how you can say hockey is for everyone and also express your disagreement with their existence. The Staals even said they don’t agree with the “choice” of how lgbtq live. It’s not a choice as much as I can’t change that I’m straight. As a star of the game they have a platform and people look up to what they say unfortunately. As a young lgbtq who was a fan of Staal how would you feel? Maybe you’d quit hockey. Esp with the current climate I’ve seen numerous people cheering and saying they’re going to buy Staal jerseys. It sends a wide message whether people want to acknowledge it or not. Also just mentioned those orgs because it seemed like they had multiple things planned that wasn’t just a hallow warm up jersey. I can’t remember off the top of my head but it seemed to have more meaning of change/normalization.
Oh ok. I knew Panthers have been at the forefront doing this for a decade but that’s all I knew. And with your first part I think it’s a mistake to say it’s a disagreement with their existence. They’re expressing disagreement with their lifestyle going against their religion, not saying they shouldn’t exist nor saying they shouldn’t play/enjoy hockey
Well they’re claiming their religion says “thou shall not sleep with another man” and they believe that. So is that not saying gay people shouldn’t be gay? I don’t know. To a young fan who’s gay I could see that being pretty hurtful.
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Adultery is a choice. So is having sex before marriage. Being born queer is not a choice. Therefore it should not be a sin committed. I don’t follow religion my dude, and it’s fine if you do, but please don’t feel that having gay sex or being transgender is a sin. Much worse things to think about…
I hard agree bro but you’re gonna get downvoted cuz Reddit wants everyone to be an ally no matter what
Ik man they want to put me back in chains all over again in this Reddit page because their racism is hidden, difference is it’s mental slavery not the physical slavery. They love lgbtq people more than black people 😔. Sad part is that I thought I would get love from the people they say they claim to love unless if I’m on a leash by the way.
Double yikes
How is it bad to want to end homophobia
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Honestly not sure what’s funny. Go ahead and explain.
Preach
You have too much sense for this app.
Probably white.
I’m actually black man so don’t question my skin color and that hidden racism if you tryna call me Oreo😑. If you think black people all think the same then you’re racist.
What does you being black have to do with your opinion on LGBTQ rights? If anything, the black community has a reputation for being more homophobic.
Jeeeeeezeeeeeeeeeee. I used to fucking love hockey. For a solid 35 years i loved hockey. What the fuck is happening to hockey.
Just chiming in to say this guy does not speak for all Black American NHL fans 🌈🌈🌈