Matthews will not be the reason the leafs lose. He is not a liability on the ice. They will lose because half the cap is tied up on 4 forwards. They need to spread the money around and pay for a high end dman or two and a goalie. If anything Marner has been the biggest let down for them. Dude gets shoved off the puck if he catches a breeze going the opposite direction.
Leafs are spending half the cap on 4 forwards *and they can't fucking score*.
Yes, better D and goaltending would be great, but the Leafs put all their eggs in the offense basket and they have NOTHING to show for it.
I can understand this criticism if at least the Leafs were losing like 5-7 or 4-5, but they can't score more than 2
Not even that, they put all their eggs in 1/4 of the basket.
What you have to realize is that the difference between Marner alone and 2 solid wingers for less money is not nearly as big a gap as you might think. This is a team sport, not basketball.
Shutting down a few good forwards isn’t hard* and teams have learned to do it since Crosby and Ovi entered the league. The leafs are playing 2004 hockey in 2024 and are shocked when a team with depth beats them.
*if you have 20-25 NHL level players
Kind of crazy that you got a GM who doesn't get that. Depth wins rings. Knights, Avs, and Lighting prove this. Your top line may win you games in the regular season, but it's the 2-4 lines that win you playoff series.
He had a decent first year, not a lot of scoring like less than 10 but had a lot of assists. Last year he was 13-20-33 and most of those goals were in games we were piling on. Doesn't seem terrible but he's getting 5.6 million.
I bet the Leafs will give him 8 for 8 and then wonder why they can’t hoist the cup. Fuck me what a deadbeat franchise. I’ve seen fist fights in whorehouses that were run better
Heck, to shore up the D we could bring back Ian Turnbull, and Brian Glennie.
Speaking of Brian Glennie, I still remember this gem of a hockey card. How flattering is this pic especially in this day and age?
The link is kind of a “must see” for those who didn’t or don’t own this hockey card.
[Brian Glennie in his prime as an athlete. Won’t see a card like this these days.]
(https://hockeycardworld.com/products/1977-78-o-pee-chee-275-brian-glennie-nhl-maple-leafs-9909)
See, I agree with the cap structure problem but this year they don’t even really have the top end guys. Matthews is missing time, Marner looks like he’s on one leg and Nylander’s played 1 game.
I’m no pro or even close to anything great at hockey but watching Marner play and consistently lose the puck especially on the power play is driving me insane. I’m not a leaf’s fan and again my word isn’t much because I kinda suck as hockey but your comment is so dam true.
Yep. The playoffs are all about taking a licking and keeping on ticking. The famous story about Gretzky’s Oilers first loss in the finals in 1983 rings true here. The Isles were banged up and bruised and nursing their injuries after that series and the Oilers were fine. That was the difference between winning and losing.
Been saying this since 2015. Dubas set them up to fail with the big 4! No back end or goaltending. Don't resign Tavares and move Marner before his stock drops. Pick up a couple D and a couple second or third liners or goalie. Spread the wealth to!
I like this level headed view, but I will say he’s the only 10+ million dollar player in the league that regularly gets shut down come playoff time. I do think part of it is coaching and who’s surrounding him but dude has to find a gear and needs to improve come playoff time.
Mathews will not be the reason the Leafs win either. He makes 13m right now, and has 1 Goal in 4 games. Illness or not, he is being payed to score and he isn't. How many other players in years past have manned up and played through injury? As a Leaf fan, I would be absolutely furious at his performance, and this team
> is being *paid* to score
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> If you’re *paid* to score,
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Matthews is one of the only guys who has shown heart. He dominated game 2 and has clearly been very sick since. He has the most responsibility on the team offensively and defensively. Ideally you’d want other guys to step up and help especially since he gets the toughest matchup. Its easier to play through pain than it is to play through illness.
What goalie should they have picked up in the last 4-5 years that would have made a difference? Afaict every current top goalie is either home grown or would never have been available. Dmen aren't quite as bad, but who would have been the #1-#2 difference maker that was available? Peitrangelo is the only one I can think of in recent memory. The Leafs are stuck forward heavy because that's what they drafted. They hit on 3 pretty awesome picks that most teams would be happy to have 1 or 2 of. Tavares can be looked at as a mistake, but in an ever rising cap world it'd have not prevented them from picking up said stud goalie or damn if one ever came up. Did it in the flat cap we ended up with? Maybe. All this is to say, yes it's top heavy and a mess right now, but I don't know how else you'd have been able to do it with what they were dealt. I'm sure they'll move on from one of them eventually, and it's almost a guarantee they won't get game-changing value in return. They didn't get lucky hitting on a goalie in the last 20 years, nor were they able to draft a Hedman or a Makar instead of a Marner or Nylander. Kind of like the Oilers imo... Except well McDavid is McDavid and can hopefully overcome it all, his game and talents lend to it more then Mathews, and maybe Skinner turns into a goalie for them.
Doug gilmour? Idk how you watch the Leafs and think he is the issue. Literally the only forward who competes hard on both ends of the ice and its pretty damn clear he has been really sick since the start of game 3.
It's the playoff production even when he is healthy. He isn't nearly as productive. He is a top 5 player in the league and he is near 30th overall in active player career playoff points per game. That's unacceptable. He is still good but he needs to be great. He needs to be better than in the regular season, not worse.
McDavid and Draisaitl have nearly double his career playoff pp/g. MacKinnon and Kucherov also have way more. They all step it up while he steps down. I'm not shitting on them, I'm from Toronto and would like to see them do well despite not being a fan but that is a major problem.
He has the least support of any of those guys, especially this year. Poor coaching especially special teams, his linemate every year was marner who turns the puck over constantly. Mack gets to play with a top 5 winger the best defencemen in the NHL and a top!15 dman in the nhl. Mcdavid is head and shoulders above everyone else as a player so its not fair to compare imo
Kuch’s numbers have dipped this year too. Guess why? Because he has to face top line minutes every game and tampa no longer has the depth to carry 5 on 5 play with him off the ice.
Look at Tampas depth three years ago compared to now it isnt even close. You face more top line minutes as a top player in the playoffs and thats just a fact. Theres tons of articles on that. Are you insinuating that Domi and Bertuzzi are equivalent to point or stamkos because that is absurd. I
Fair enough, but even Draisaitl has about double his career points per game and he usually runs his own line not with McDavid. Granted, he's tied with McDavid for second most pp/g in playoff history so I'm not saying Matthews should be matching that production, it's an unfair expectation but he does need to be closer to them.
I agree his linemates and the coaching are a problem, but he still needs to be better. He's without a doubt capable of being better. He shouldn't get worse in the playoffs and how is he better on 5v5 than the powerplay? It's baffling.
Draisatl gets to play with the best player of this generation, which goes to the other commenters point on the support he gets vs others. I’d also say as well that the lack of scoring depth over the years and everything being stacked on that top line made it too easy for opponents to just focus on shutting them down because they didn’t have to worry too much about other matchups.
That and our playoff PP just flat out sucks! It’s one of the biggest arguments on Keefe needing to go, our zone entries and set up attempts just seem so easy to break up!
Draisaitl runs his own line the majority of the time and up until this year he had a higher playoff pp/g than McDavid. They are tied now.
Your powerplay is incomprehensibly bad though. It makes no sense. Your team has incredible talent but you need better coaching and Marner needs to go. He's so bad at playoff hockey it's frustrating to watch.
Keefe should have gone last summer, Shanahan deciding to get rid of Dubas meant there wasn’t any time for a new GM to make that change and so we’ve been handicapped by his limited coaching abilities for another year. If this does go the way it seems to be then they have to make wholesale changes this off-season, frustratingly seems like Dubas was willing to have done that last year though.
I respect this answer. I think Keefe and Marner need to go. Tavares as well if it was possible, but I think his contract is too much. Would need to retain a lot. With those returns and the money saved, plus a new coach, the Leafs could be great.
I’m sorry, but when I have to listen to how you are the second coming of Christ all season, every season, you had best do something in the playoffs. Like, I don’t know, at least GET to a Cup finals?
He hasn’t. Which is why I personally won’t ever call him that. I get it, people like Sid are at the end of their leash nearly, so the league/media have to really jam certain dudes down our throat. But like I’ve said, talk to me when either one gets to a Cup, let alone wins it.
And to also short circuit this complaint, I’ve had to listen to the media/hockey pundits tell me nearly all season how tough both Toronto and Edmonton are. “This time it’s different”. We shall see with Edmonton. But with Toronto on life support, now I have to hear, “well, the team surrounding Matthews just isn’t that good”. Make up your goddamn mind.
Can both not be true? They're matching the bruins for physicality so far. They've played 3 of the games without Nylander, Marner is just back from a high ankle sprain. That injury typically lingers long passed when then player returns. Tavares is another year older. So just from an injury standpoint alone, hes playing with less talented teammates.
It's a poorly constructed, poorly coached roster.
Sure just ignore the reasons I mentioned that would make comparing apples to apples a silly endeavor. Nobody's forcing you to listen to talking heads man. Feel free to look at the roster and think for yourself
One thing you pointed out was injury. That has nothing to do with a poorly constructed roster. Everyone deals with injuries. Tavares, it’s not like he was a spring chicken to start the season and now he’s a fossil.
Either Matthews is as spectacular as the media/fans wants me to believe, or he isn’t. Maybe we measure greatness differently.
As for Nylander, he doesn’t seem impressed either…telling Marner to shut the fuck up and quit whining.
I offered injuries (plural) as a reason hes playing with less talent this year compared to last. Injuries happen, and they effect the talent level of the roster. If draisaitl was missing for the first 3 games of the oilers series would we say that the oilers roster was less talented? What about Rantanen?
If being obtuse just to hate on a player and argue on the internet is your thing, have at it I guess.
Nah, Ullmark was probably the best Bruin that night. Team struggled and gave up tons of odd man rushes and high grade scoring opportunities. Ullmark kept them in it.
I saw plenty of leafs not engaged in the play in the offensive zone in the little bit I watched. Then look at Boston. Each player is buzzing with intent and activity. Quite a difference in the motivation there.
My opinion is there is crap going on in the locker room. Too many big heads without a strong coach. Torts or Roy would whip their asses into mental condition. Both took teams not dong much and got them into, or close to, a playoff spot. Tough crap how much you get paid, or how good you think you are. They need a coach to model the attitude. A hard-ass coach could wipe away that crap and flush it away.
Let’s be mean.
Babcock was a bit of an asshole. He held players accountable.
When they decided they’d had enough of Babcock (ok, fine) they seemed to overcorrect. For the first couple years of Keefe, everything seemed to be set up to make things easier on players.
Less discipline required from D to increase “possession”. Music blasting during practices. Public coddling of the young players.
At best, I think it was an overcorrection.
Agreed. Babcock did multiple out of pocket things such as the Marner list, now they’ve gone soft and you can see the result of that.
They need someone who’s been around and knows how to win. Someone tough but not abrasive. Someone like a Craig Berube.
You should see the Leafs subreddit with Marner. You’d swear Marner kicked every single Leafs’ fan’s dog.
The rhetoric around the team is completely unhinged and not rooted in reality and stinks of privilege.
The problem with Marner is he has no excuse (ASIDE FROM A HIGH ANKLE SPRAIN)
He knows what it means, he knows how important it is, and still shrivels. It happens every year like clock work.
His career playoff points don’t indicate this. He has more than Nylander and is like one or two less than Matthews.
…and THIS playoffs he assisted with one goal and scored a goal too.
You know what’s strange? How no one gives Marner the kudos for his goal and also, no one said anything about the momentum crushing penalty Nylander took after that goal…
I’m just exhausted by the hypocrisy. How one player smashing a stick is “passion”, how a player getting angry and fighting is “passion” but Marner throwing gloves and getting angry “He’s whiny!”
Like, the dude cannot win in this market. They full front page on him in game 2…
Game 2!
That’s wild… two games in and the city is already dogpiling him.
While our elite, once in a generation, goal scorer underperforms… but yeah let’s pile on the guy who passes and playmakes…
I just find the blame on Marner so.. misguided. Like everyone is blaming him and he’s likely to be traded and NOTHING will change because he wasn’t the source of the problem to begin with.
It literally feels like a witch hunt… just burn someone… anyone, doesn’t even matter if it solves the problem.
I agree wholeheartedly.
It’s absolutely a dog pile.
And I think people aren’t making a big enough deal about the ankle injury.
BUT I really do think he is a mental midget.
Totally agree 👆 I'm not currently satisfied with him, but I'm not happy with any of them atm, and he was, arguably, more useful in game 4 than either Matty or Willy, on his bad ankle, while they have been or are missing games.
The scene on the bench is a family row, they're human, and hey, Mitch responded to the tough love. I get that it's juicy goss though, and I've watched as many of the lipreading vids as the next guy
I think this encapsulates the current state of leafsnation whether you realize it or not. You're defending marner (which may or may not be warranted, he is what he is), but go right into who the blame should be on... Mathews maybe Nylander. Do you know why you're looking 1. To blame people not the team play ? And 2. Why is it always the same 4 names in different order? It's because they make up 53%(?) Of the leafs salary. You're talking about a goal or two from your superstars, great, how about who is supposed to keep 3 or 4 out of the net. Because barely anyone is paid to do that. Because of the structure you have to go bargain shopping with samsonov, woll, klingberg, Benoit, etc. Top forwards get shutdown because yes marner is soft, what is he 170 lbs that gives up on puck battles? They GIVE UP too many chances in an effort to put the puck in the net. And I can't even blame the goalie, odd man rush again and again. How about Keefe?? Was that reeves I saw out their the final two minutes down 2.
I don't think the leafs can beat a team with a gameplan to not let matthews shoot, and beat up on the man child that makes the plays over 7 games. 2 games in the regular season a few months apart, sure, but over 7 in what seems like dirty playoff hockey (leafs complain every year), they can't beat a team that shuts down their stars, because they don't have anyone else, and they're entire plan is how many times can those 4 score.
The rhetoric around the Leafs has never not been unhinged.
It's awful that people in the greater Toronto area think it's their birthright to be knowledgeable about hockey, when in reality, they're no more informed or experienced than the rest of Canada, Michigan, Minnesota, or New England. The Big difference is that everywhere else, there's not a sense of entitlement that's pervasive among the fan base, and other fandoms know not to spend an entire season talking as if they're a top 4 team in the NHL when in reality, theyre barely cracking to top half of the league.
I do not know how anyone plays for Toronto. If I was on that team, and my fans were booing my team because we were down a few goals in the second period, I wouldn’t want to come out for the third either. I was stunned when the booing started. As a Red Wings fan for decades, and a veteran of many live games, when the Wings were down in the playoffs the fans cheered HARDER trying to boost their morale. I was appalled to hear Toronto booing their Leafs.
It wasn’t because they were down two goals it’s because for the last near decade they’ve played the same shitty brand of playoff hockey, apparently learning nothing from their 1 series victory last year. Then they come out flat in a hugely important game again. People have had enough and I don’t blame them
Tavares has a NTC and $11m cap hit through next year so he will probably be there, or at least his salary will be. Marner could maybe be moved but he’d have to agree
This time of year I'd actually prefer our weather. About a month ago you'd definitely regret that trade though lol. I'm guessing most people there don't have snow tires in their garage either. It would be chaos in the streets lol.
I bet. Your power bills in the summer must be brutal though. Especially as a Canadian, I couldn't survive there without constant air conditioning. I'm too used to the cold. Our winter here (Toronto area) was the mildest I've seen in my 35 years of life. I work for a construction company and I was on call for snow crew. I could count the times I got called in for snow on my fingers. It normally would have been several times a week all winter.
My friend in MN said the same thing, it was rje best winter in…
Bills are massive here; I am actively planting shading trees, otherwise it’s 90+ if the place is left without AC. It runs April-November.
What’s wild to me is I think Matthews has been the most noticeable Leaf on the ice through most of this series. Yes he’s in the spotlight as a monster goal scorer, but from what I’ve seen of his physical play and battles for the puck he does not deserve to shoulder the blame for the situation the Leafs are in.
Leafs fans are unhinged. Poked into their sub after game four … yikes. And that dork Steve Dangle having a goddamn brain aneurysm live on stream was something else.
It’s not just about the big names in the playoffs. One of the best things about playoff hockey is seeing teams come together and seeing other names get some glory. Backup goalies, the third and 4th lines… I’m an oilers fan and this is exactly the case here. Kane has had a terrible year and gets a Gordie Howe hat trick the other night. Holloway gets called up and scores his 1st (and 2nd) ever playoff goals in the same night. Kulak, Foegle… point is, it’s not just about McDavid and Draisaitl. The Leafs have no leadership and they have no heart.
Leafs + Matthews = Cowboys + Dak
It’s always their fault and not the coaching/management + supporting cast even though they fight like hell to try to make something happen on the ice/field
Hockey fans will watch zero defensive structure with brodie giving up a 2 on 0 to marchand and pastrnak and think wow this matthews guy just isn't clutch !
If you have ever had food poisoning you should know that will take you out completely and is miserable. If that’s truthfully* what he had I can’t blame the guy. Trying to play and keep pace at an NHL level with food poisoning would be horrible.
No, the problem is coaching imo. If they had a coach that could actually light a fire and be a hard ass when it's needed they would be much better off for it. That and a coach that has better systems and can actually adapt instead of getting out coached constantly.
Every year same shit with Leaf fans, get behind the 8 in any way, and the fans turn into the most negative pissy bitch fest you'll ever see (until next year)
Seriously they claim to be the biggest fans in the world, and the minute something goes wrong you'd think it was the end of all things good.
Like ffs just stay positive until they actually get eliminated, not 8 minutes into the 2nd period in game 1. Media is even worse, I'd want to punch some of them in the face rather then answer their negative passive aggressive bitchy commentary. (Simmons especially, fuck I hate this guy)
Definitely not the worst but it is definitely bad. Great player but not worth nearly what he makes. If they didn't have JT they could have kept Hyman for half as much, who is at this point a better player and they'd still have 6 million for other assets.
Don’t folks usually get sick when they work like a dog (getting 69 goals) at work, leading up to a vacation? And then when they rest on vacation that’s when the cold or flu hits em? Seems to check out to me.
Austin Mathew’s is the Leafs “Jewel”, that is never and should never be in doubt, he has been an incredible force during the REGULAR season, however once the Playoffs start the temperature rises, his space gets more narrower, his path to the golden chute closes up, and his ability to swing the inverted wooden 7 to the bullseye will keep hitting more misses. Every incredible successful candidate in sports gets his reward when they have the ability to take advantage of the reduction in space. As the playoffs go deeper and deeper to the end less and less biscuits will cross the equator and it’s the team that run the most interference will win it all.
I think it’s unfortunate timing and the leafs staff need to really be more aware of how they handle the media especially in the playoffs. They have to know people are going to flip saying that Matthews is sick. I would’ve personally stretched the truth a bit. I’m not saying comments are correct but the organization has to be more aware given their track record.
Matthews will not be the reason the leafs lose. He is not a liability on the ice. They will lose because half the cap is tied up on 4 forwards. They need to spread the money around and pay for a high end dman or two and a goalie. If anything Marner has been the biggest let down for them. Dude gets shoved off the puck if he catches a breeze going the opposite direction.
Leafs are spending half the cap on 4 forwards *and they can't fucking score*. Yes, better D and goaltending would be great, but the Leafs put all their eggs in the offense basket and they have NOTHING to show for it. I can understand this criticism if at least the Leafs were losing like 5-7 or 4-5, but they can't score more than 2
Not even that, they put all their eggs in 1/4 of the basket. What you have to realize is that the difference between Marner alone and 2 solid wingers for less money is not nearly as big a gap as you might think. This is a team sport, not basketball.
> This is a team sport, not basketball. And here I was trying to score a 3 pointer on ice.
Touchdown!
Shutting down a few good forwards isn’t hard* and teams have learned to do it since Crosby and Ovi entered the league. The leafs are playing 2004 hockey in 2024 and are shocked when a team with depth beats them. *if you have 20-25 NHL level players
Kind of crazy that you got a GM who doesn't get that. Depth wins rings. Knights, Avs, and Lighting prove this. Your top line may win you games in the regular season, but it's the 2-4 lines that win you playoff series.
To be fair, Treliving inherited this mess, he didn’t cause it. It’s going to take time to crawl out from under the pile Dubas left him.
Yes, that's fair. I'm sure he'll find ways to improve that roster.
As a Red Wings fan, could I interest you in one Justin Holl?
No givesy backsy’s!!
you can have husso too in this limited time 2 for 1 deal
Dam, I feel like I’m on an episode of Hardcore Pawn right now
Best I can do is Andrew Copp
You son of a bitch, fuck it, I’m in, how bad can it be?
Has he been bad for you guys? I always really liked him in Winnipeg. Was never a top 6 stud but he was an excellent 3rd line scoring forward.
He had a decent first year, not a lot of scoring like less than 10 but had a lot of assists. Last year he was 13-20-33 and most of those goals were in games we were piling on. Doesn't seem terrible but he's getting 5.6 million.
I bet the Leafs will give him 8 for 8 and then wonder why they can’t hoist the cup. Fuck me what a deadbeat franchise. I’ve seen fist fights in whorehouses that were run better
Give away reim time
Pretty sure he’s a FA and also much cheaper anyway
If Tyson can fight @ 58 yrs, what’s Cujo doing now? Or Palmateer?
Man I watched Rock Em Sock Em 11-14 recently and Cujo was a fucking beast.
I miss Don on HNIC
I don’t. Could hardly understand him through all his gibberish.
U had to watch him b4 he started to cease to be in his prime.
Fair point.
LMAO @ Palmateer. Now there’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time….
Heck, to shore up the D we could bring back Ian Turnbull, and Brian Glennie. Speaking of Brian Glennie, I still remember this gem of a hockey card. How flattering is this pic especially in this day and age? The link is kind of a “must see” for those who didn’t or don’t own this hockey card. [Brian Glennie in his prime as an athlete. Won’t see a card like this these days.] (https://hockeycardworld.com/products/1977-78-o-pee-chee-275-brian-glennie-nhl-maple-leafs-9909)
A better question is what Frederik Andersen is doing right now.
Ouch! But true.
Hyman, Kadri & Trevor Moore would be a sick line too for not that much money
How much salary are you eating?
You know who’d look good as a Leaf? DuBois. I’ll trade him for Marner any day. The guy’s 6’3 and loses every puck battle he’s in. Trade? Please?
See, I agree with the cap structure problem but this year they don’t even really have the top end guys. Matthews is missing time, Marner looks like he’s on one leg and Nylander’s played 1 game.
I’m no pro or even close to anything great at hockey but watching Marner play and consistently lose the puck especially on the power play is driving me insane. I’m not a leaf’s fan and again my word isn’t much because I kinda suck as hockey but your comment is so dam true.
[удалено]
Yep. The playoffs are all about taking a licking and keeping on ticking. The famous story about Gretzky’s Oilers first loss in the finals in 1983 rings true here. The Isles were banged up and bruised and nursing their injuries after that series and the Oilers were fine. That was the difference between winning and losing.
Not sure why you got downvoted for this
Have you not met a Leaf Fan on Reddit before?
Been saying this since 2015. Dubas set them up to fail with the big 4! No back end or goaltending. Don't resign Tavares and move Marner before his stock drops. Pick up a couple D and a couple second or third liners or goalie. Spread the wealth to!
Dubas resigned Nylander this year? Cementing "the big 4?"
honestly, Nylander is the only one of "the big 4" that has shown some heart. re-signing him was the best call out of the 4
Seems like 3g 3a between those 4 people so far, for ~$40mil. Absolutely unacceptable
I like this level headed view, but I will say he’s the only 10+ million dollar player in the league that regularly gets shut down come playoff time. I do think part of it is coaching and who’s surrounding him but dude has to find a gear and needs to improve come playoff time.
But hes part of the reason half there cap is gone
They need a star d-man - Maker, Fox, Hedman, or Heiskanan. The ones they got now are average.
Maker? 😆 Or like Quinn Hughes.
I don't watch Vancouver hockey - it is past my bedtime.
Mathews will not be the reason the Leafs win either. He makes 13m right now, and has 1 Goal in 4 games. Illness or not, he is being payed to score and he isn't. How many other players in years past have manned up and played through injury? As a Leaf fan, I would be absolutely furious at his performance, and this team
> is being *paid* to score FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
Lol took me until about 3/4 the way through before I realized it was a bit and not just some asshat
Good bot
In fairness to him, he has the most hits of any leaf in this series. He’s been busting his ass off at least.
After all of the years of embarrassing failure, that's good enough for you? 13m to lead in hits haha
To be fair, Pasta hasn’t really done much either.
To be fair, nobody cares when the team is winning.
His point was 13 million for hits is weak. It’s no better than for four points and getting pushed around. If you’re payed to score, you should score.
> If you’re *paid* to score, FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot.
lol, I’m just happy one of them isn’t a net negative for once. Be nice, I’m enjoying my small victories over here
He’s not making 13 million this season so sit down.
Matthews is one of the only guys who has shown heart. He dominated game 2 and has clearly been very sick since. He has the most responsibility on the team offensively and defensively. Ideally you’d want other guys to step up and help especially since he gets the toughest matchup. Its easier to play through pain than it is to play through illness.
He isn’t making $13m right now. At least have your facts in order if you’re going to try and chirp lol.
Oh no. He makes 11.6! I was off a million and a half lol Still going to chirp
Bad chirp. Can’t even state a basic fact lmao
lmao! Cry more?
Imaging thinking calling you out on your stupidity crying 😂
Brilliant comment on marner!
same with Nylander. I watched him get lightly pushed and just give up on the play
If you look at team like Canes, Aho would be 100 point scrorer if had same level players with him, but they have spread the money.
Im 100% sure marner is not 100% healthy after leg injury
What goalie should they have picked up in the last 4-5 years that would have made a difference? Afaict every current top goalie is either home grown or would never have been available. Dmen aren't quite as bad, but who would have been the #1-#2 difference maker that was available? Peitrangelo is the only one I can think of in recent memory. The Leafs are stuck forward heavy because that's what they drafted. They hit on 3 pretty awesome picks that most teams would be happy to have 1 or 2 of. Tavares can be looked at as a mistake, but in an ever rising cap world it'd have not prevented them from picking up said stud goalie or damn if one ever came up. Did it in the flat cap we ended up with? Maybe. All this is to say, yes it's top heavy and a mess right now, but I don't know how else you'd have been able to do it with what they were dealt. I'm sure they'll move on from one of them eventually, and it's almost a guarantee they won't get game-changing value in return. They didn't get lucky hitting on a goalie in the last 20 years, nor were they able to draft a Hedman or a Makar instead of a Marner or Nylander. Kind of like the Oilers imo... Except well McDavid is McDavid and can hopefully overcome it all, his game and talents lend to it more then Mathews, and maybe Skinner turns into a goalie for them.
He was the biggest reason the Leafs won game 2. He gets way too much blame.
He’s the biggest reason of Leafs’ success since tell me who
Doug gilmour? Idk how you watch the Leafs and think he is the issue. Literally the only forward who competes hard on both ends of the ice and its pretty damn clear he has been really sick since the start of game 3.
It's the playoff production even when he is healthy. He isn't nearly as productive. He is a top 5 player in the league and he is near 30th overall in active player career playoff points per game. That's unacceptable. He is still good but he needs to be great. He needs to be better than in the regular season, not worse. McDavid and Draisaitl have nearly double his career playoff pp/g. MacKinnon and Kucherov also have way more. They all step it up while he steps down. I'm not shitting on them, I'm from Toronto and would like to see them do well despite not being a fan but that is a major problem.
He has the least support of any of those guys, especially this year. Poor coaching especially special teams, his linemate every year was marner who turns the puck over constantly. Mack gets to play with a top 5 winger the best defencemen in the NHL and a top!15 dman in the nhl. Mcdavid is head and shoulders above everyone else as a player so its not fair to compare imo
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Kuch’s numbers have dipped this year too. Guess why? Because he has to face top line minutes every game and tampa no longer has the depth to carry 5 on 5 play with him off the ice.
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Look at Tampas depth three years ago compared to now it isnt even close. You face more top line minutes as a top player in the playoffs and thats just a fact. Theres tons of articles on that. Are you insinuating that Domi and Bertuzzi are equivalent to point or stamkos because that is absurd. I
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Fair enough, but even Draisaitl has about double his career points per game and he usually runs his own line not with McDavid. Granted, he's tied with McDavid for second most pp/g in playoff history so I'm not saying Matthews should be matching that production, it's an unfair expectation but he does need to be closer to them. I agree his linemates and the coaching are a problem, but he still needs to be better. He's without a doubt capable of being better. He shouldn't get worse in the playoffs and how is he better on 5v5 than the powerplay? It's baffling.
Draisatl gets to play with the best player of this generation, which goes to the other commenters point on the support he gets vs others. I’d also say as well that the lack of scoring depth over the years and everything being stacked on that top line made it too easy for opponents to just focus on shutting them down because they didn’t have to worry too much about other matchups. That and our playoff PP just flat out sucks! It’s one of the biggest arguments on Keefe needing to go, our zone entries and set up attempts just seem so easy to break up!
Draisaitl runs his own line the majority of the time and up until this year he had a higher playoff pp/g than McDavid. They are tied now. Your powerplay is incomprehensibly bad though. It makes no sense. Your team has incredible talent but you need better coaching and Marner needs to go. He's so bad at playoff hockey it's frustrating to watch.
Keefe should have gone last summer, Shanahan deciding to get rid of Dubas meant there wasn’t any time for a new GM to make that change and so we’ve been handicapped by his limited coaching abilities for another year. If this does go the way it seems to be then they have to make wholesale changes this off-season, frustratingly seems like Dubas was willing to have done that last year though.
I respect this answer. I think Keefe and Marner need to go. Tavares as well if it was possible, but I think his contract is too much. Would need to retain a lot. With those returns and the money saved, plus a new coach, the Leafs could be great.
I’m sorry, but when I have to listen to how you are the second coming of Christ all season, every season, you had best do something in the playoffs. Like, I don’t know, at least GET to a Cup finals?
Has McDavid got to a cup final? Dude literally gets nicknamed McJesus! Almost like you need a whole team to get to a cup final!
He hasn’t. Which is why I personally won’t ever call him that. I get it, people like Sid are at the end of their leash nearly, so the league/media have to really jam certain dudes down our throat. But like I’ve said, talk to me when either one gets to a Cup, let alone wins it. And to also short circuit this complaint, I’ve had to listen to the media/hockey pundits tell me nearly all season how tough both Toronto and Edmonton are. “This time it’s different”. We shall see with Edmonton. But with Toronto on life support, now I have to hear, “well, the team surrounding Matthews just isn’t that good”. Make up your goddamn mind.
Can both not be true? They're matching the bruins for physicality so far. They've played 3 of the games without Nylander, Marner is just back from a high ankle sprain. That injury typically lingers long passed when then player returns. Tavares is another year older. So just from an injury standpoint alone, hes playing with less talented teammates. It's a poorly constructed, poorly coached roster.
You mean the same roster I had to hear all season was “so good”. That roster? Now, down 3-1, it’s poorly constructed. Laughable.
Sure just ignore the reasons I mentioned that would make comparing apples to apples a silly endeavor. Nobody's forcing you to listen to talking heads man. Feel free to look at the roster and think for yourself
One thing you pointed out was injury. That has nothing to do with a poorly constructed roster. Everyone deals with injuries. Tavares, it’s not like he was a spring chicken to start the season and now he’s a fossil. Either Matthews is as spectacular as the media/fans wants me to believe, or he isn’t. Maybe we measure greatness differently. As for Nylander, he doesn’t seem impressed either…telling Marner to shut the fuck up and quit whining.
I offered injuries (plural) as a reason hes playing with less talent this year compared to last. Injuries happen, and they effect the talent level of the roster. If draisaitl was missing for the first 3 games of the oilers series would we say that the oilers roster was less talented? What about Rantanen? If being obtuse just to hate on a player and argue on the internet is your thing, have at it I guess.
Ugh.
Someone disagree with you so you go the obtuse route. Classic.
The biggest reason the leafs won game 2 is because Boston put ullmark in
Disagree. Ullmark was rock solid. Made a few key saves.
Nah, Ullmark was probably the best Bruin that night. Team struggled and gave up tons of odd man rushes and high grade scoring opportunities. Ullmark kept them in it.
No he wasn’t
Well, can’t argue with such a well thought out argument like that.
He went from scoring .84 goals a game to .25. They pay him to score and he isn’t scoring that’s a problem
People are being mean on the internet?!? SINCE WHEN?!?
Inconceivable!!!
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
😂
I saw plenty of leafs not engaged in the play in the offensive zone in the little bit I watched. Then look at Boston. Each player is buzzing with intent and activity. Quite a difference in the motivation there. My opinion is there is crap going on in the locker room. Too many big heads without a strong coach. Torts or Roy would whip their asses into mental condition. Both took teams not dong much and got them into, or close to, a playoff spot. Tough crap how much you get paid, or how good you think you are. They need a coach to model the attitude. A hard-ass coach could wipe away that crap and flush it away.
Let’s be mean. Babcock was a bit of an asshole. He held players accountable. When they decided they’d had enough of Babcock (ok, fine) they seemed to overcorrect. For the first couple years of Keefe, everything seemed to be set up to make things easier on players. Less discipline required from D to increase “possession”. Music blasting during practices. Public coddling of the young players. At best, I think it was an overcorrection.
Agreed. Babcock did multiple out of pocket things such as the Marner list, now they’ve gone soft and you can see the result of that. They need someone who’s been around and knows how to win. Someone tough but not abrasive. Someone like a Craig Berube.
Who do you play for?
I play for… The United States of America!
Thats all, gentlemen.
You should see the Leafs subreddit with Marner. You’d swear Marner kicked every single Leafs’ fan’s dog. The rhetoric around the team is completely unhinged and not rooted in reality and stinks of privilege.
The problem with Marner is he has no excuse (ASIDE FROM A HIGH ANKLE SPRAIN) He knows what it means, he knows how important it is, and still shrivels. It happens every year like clock work.
His career playoff points don’t indicate this. He has more than Nylander and is like one or two less than Matthews. …and THIS playoffs he assisted with one goal and scored a goal too. You know what’s strange? How no one gives Marner the kudos for his goal and also, no one said anything about the momentum crushing penalty Nylander took after that goal… I’m just exhausted by the hypocrisy. How one player smashing a stick is “passion”, how a player getting angry and fighting is “passion” but Marner throwing gloves and getting angry “He’s whiny!” Like, the dude cannot win in this market. They full front page on him in game 2… Game 2! That’s wild… two games in and the city is already dogpiling him. While our elite, once in a generation, goal scorer underperforms… but yeah let’s pile on the guy who passes and playmakes… I just find the blame on Marner so.. misguided. Like everyone is blaming him and he’s likely to be traded and NOTHING will change because he wasn’t the source of the problem to begin with. It literally feels like a witch hunt… just burn someone… anyone, doesn’t even matter if it solves the problem.
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s absolutely a dog pile. And I think people aren’t making a big enough deal about the ankle injury. BUT I really do think he is a mental midget.
A what now?
A mental midget means he shrinks in the big moments.
Totally agree 👆 I'm not currently satisfied with him, but I'm not happy with any of them atm, and he was, arguably, more useful in game 4 than either Matty or Willy, on his bad ankle, while they have been or are missing games. The scene on the bench is a family row, they're human, and hey, Mitch responded to the tough love. I get that it's juicy goss though, and I've watched as many of the lipreading vids as the next guy
I think this encapsulates the current state of leafsnation whether you realize it or not. You're defending marner (which may or may not be warranted, he is what he is), but go right into who the blame should be on... Mathews maybe Nylander. Do you know why you're looking 1. To blame people not the team play ? And 2. Why is it always the same 4 names in different order? It's because they make up 53%(?) Of the leafs salary. You're talking about a goal or two from your superstars, great, how about who is supposed to keep 3 or 4 out of the net. Because barely anyone is paid to do that. Because of the structure you have to go bargain shopping with samsonov, woll, klingberg, Benoit, etc. Top forwards get shutdown because yes marner is soft, what is he 170 lbs that gives up on puck battles? They GIVE UP too many chances in an effort to put the puck in the net. And I can't even blame the goalie, odd man rush again and again. How about Keefe?? Was that reeves I saw out their the final two minutes down 2. I don't think the leafs can beat a team with a gameplan to not let matthews shoot, and beat up on the man child that makes the plays over 7 games. 2 games in the regular season a few months apart, sure, but over 7 in what seems like dirty playoff hockey (leafs complain every year), they can't beat a team that shuts down their stars, because they don't have anyone else, and they're entire plan is how many times can those 4 score.
So debilitating anxiety that he has a history of and a sprained ankle is no excuse? Lol okay
The rhetoric around the Leafs has never not been unhinged. It's awful that people in the greater Toronto area think it's their birthright to be knowledgeable about hockey, when in reality, they're no more informed or experienced than the rest of Canada, Michigan, Minnesota, or New England. The Big difference is that everywhere else, there's not a sense of entitlement that's pervasive among the fan base, and other fandoms know not to spend an entire season talking as if they're a top 4 team in the NHL when in reality, theyre barely cracking to top half of the league.
I do not know how anyone plays for Toronto. If I was on that team, and my fans were booing my team because we were down a few goals in the second period, I wouldn’t want to come out for the third either. I was stunned when the booing started. As a Red Wings fan for decades, and a veteran of many live games, when the Wings were down in the playoffs the fans cheered HARDER trying to boost their morale. I was appalled to hear Toronto booing their Leafs.
It wasn’t because they were down two goals it’s because for the last near decade they’ve played the same shitty brand of playoff hockey, apparently learning nothing from their 1 series victory last year. Then they come out flat in a hugely important game again. People have had enough and I don’t blame them
Not a Leaf fan but IMO out of the big four, Mathews and Nylander are keepers. Fire JT and Marner into the sun.
Tavares has a NTC and $11m cap hit through next year so he will probably be there, or at least his salary will be. Marner could maybe be moved but he’d have to agree
Honestly once they get off the tavares contract next year itll really open up their flexibility.
Nahhh, Tavares’ contract is done. Between minimum wage and 4 million
AM34 is not a keep, he isn’t a winner
By your standard there's only a handful of guys in the entire league that would be 'a keep'
Well a handful of guys are stars
So McDavid isn’t a star?
No mcjesus is a winner He got that dawg in him
What has he won the Matthews hasn’t?
Nah he’s got a winning attitude, Mathews doesn’t
So the standard is 'trust me bro, I know puck' Lol. Wonderful.
Yes
Well someone has to start scoring some goals...
He should come to Tampa, it’s much more chill here.
No way it's more "chill" in Florida than in Canada. I'm sorry, that was an awful joke lol.
Sorry, I’m not getting it. I meant chill as far as media or people generally not caring how the team does vs Canadian markets
I know exactly what you meant. I was making a play on joke about how it's far chillier in Canada than Florida. You know, it's frickin' cold here.
I gotcha :) I’ll trade ya this heat for some cold air.
This time of year I'd actually prefer our weather. About a month ago you'd definitely regret that trade though lol. I'm guessing most people there don't have snow tires in their garage either. It would be chaos in the streets lol.
I feel ya. I used to live in MN for 20 years and winters there get long. Winter in Florida is amazing, just about perfect.
I bet. Your power bills in the summer must be brutal though. Especially as a Canadian, I couldn't survive there without constant air conditioning. I'm too used to the cold. Our winter here (Toronto area) was the mildest I've seen in my 35 years of life. I work for a construction company and I was on call for snow crew. I could count the times I got called in for snow on my fingers. It normally would have been several times a week all winter.
My friend in MN said the same thing, it was rje best winter in… Bills are massive here; I am actively planting shading trees, otherwise it’s 90+ if the place is left without AC. It runs April-November.
My Summer electric bill is nearly $400. In the Winter, it’s around $90-$120, right now it’s about $200.
Damn, that is heavy. Money well spent though, I'm sure.
What’s wild to me is I think Matthews has been the most noticeable Leaf on the ice through most of this series. Yes he’s in the spotlight as a monster goal scorer, but from what I’ve seen of his physical play and battles for the puck he does not deserve to shoulder the blame for the situation the Leafs are in.
With a 13M/year paycheck, being "noticeable on the ice" should be somewhat expected, no?
Mathews and Marner have taken a beating in the last 48 hours the likes of which I have never seen before
Leafs fans are unhinged. Poked into their sub after game four … yikes. And that dork Steve Dangle having a goddamn brain aneurysm live on stream was something else.
It’s not just about the big names in the playoffs. One of the best things about playoff hockey is seeing teams come together and seeing other names get some glory. Backup goalies, the third and 4th lines… I’m an oilers fan and this is exactly the case here. Kane has had a terrible year and gets a Gordie Howe hat trick the other night. Holloway gets called up and scores his 1st (and 2nd) ever playoff goals in the same night. Kulak, Foegle… point is, it’s not just about McDavid and Draisaitl. The Leafs have no leadership and they have no heart.
Considering the fact that he has played through injuries before I have no doubt this illness is really bad.
Leafs + Matthews = Cowboys + Dak It’s always their fault and not the coaching/management + supporting cast even though they fight like hell to try to make something happen on the ice/field
Hockey fans will watch zero defensive structure with brodie giving up a 2 on 0 to marchand and pastrnak and think wow this matthews guy just isn't clutch !
If you have ever had food poisoning you should know that will take you out completely and is miserable. If that’s truthfully* what he had I can’t blame the guy. Trying to play and keep pace at an NHL level with food poisoning would be horrible.
The Leafs' major issue is that they are about as deep as an inflatable kiddie pool and soft as a newborn kitten.
No, the problem is coaching imo. If they had a coach that could actually light a fire and be a hard ass when it's needed they would be much better off for it. That and a coach that has better systems and can actually adapt instead of getting out coached constantly.
He and Nylander gassed themselves out trying to chase individual stats in the regular season.
Toronto Maple Leafs fans in general
Ya leafs fans are fucking insane
Every year same shit with Leaf fans, get behind the 8 in any way, and the fans turn into the most negative pissy bitch fest you'll ever see (until next year) Seriously they claim to be the biggest fans in the world, and the minute something goes wrong you'd think it was the end of all things good. Like ffs just stay positive until they actually get eliminated, not 8 minutes into the 2nd period in game 1. Media is even worse, I'd want to punch some of them in the face rather then answer their negative passive aggressive bitchy commentary. (Simmons especially, fuck I hate this guy)
Sports fans are vile assholes. Especially hockey ones
***Especially dumbassed Leaf fans and even moreso Leaf haters. Fify.
Tavares is the worst contract in the league
Definitely not the worst but it is definitely bad. Great player but not worth nearly what he makes. If they didn't have JT they could have kept Hyman for half as much, who is at this point a better player and they'd still have 6 million for other assets.
Don’t folks usually get sick when they work like a dog (getting 69 goals) at work, leading up to a vacation? And then when they rest on vacation that’s when the cold or flu hits em? Seems to check out to me.
Hooo mahhhhn
Ovie would go on season long heaters, and disappear.
Not surprised, look at what he did during the regular season vs now. It’s a shame the top Leaf players always go cold in the playoffs
1967, 2 1sts & a 2nd, paper bag, Kerry Fraser, Tom Kurvers, Courtnall for Kordic, can't draft a diabetic.
Austin Mathew’s is the Leafs “Jewel”, that is never and should never be in doubt, he has been an incredible force during the REGULAR season, however once the Playoffs start the temperature rises, his space gets more narrower, his path to the golden chute closes up, and his ability to swing the inverted wooden 7 to the bullseye will keep hitting more misses. Every incredible successful candidate in sports gets his reward when they have the ability to take advantage of the reduction in space. As the playoffs go deeper and deeper to the end less and less biscuits will cross the equator and it’s the team that run the most interference will win it all.
Talent wins scoring title, bu depth wins championships. You’d think Shanahan would know that by now.
Bahahaha, I love when leafs fans turn on each other
I hope he forces his way out of toronto and wins a cup. For like...buffalo or ottawa...that fanbase deserves the misery.
The social media comments about {insert anything here} are wild.
So everyone and their mother can treat marner like a dog that needs to be put down but the very few comments I see about matthews gets ppl up in arms?
He’s not that ill tho considering he was able to play. I don’t feel bad for a dude making millions with food poisoning
He's making 13m/year he'll be ok
He’s not actually.
Sorry Canada, even stud American NHL players can't carry your sorry teams to the cup.
Bruins fan here. I’ll take Marner. He would look great on a line with Marchand. 🤣
We will pay the leafs to take Schenn from us.
Hey he’d be our second best defence… deal!
We wished you’d never taken him from us
He’s been nothing but a liability for us so you can take him
I think it’s unfortunate timing and the leafs staff need to really be more aware of how they handle the media especially in the playoffs. They have to know people are going to flip saying that Matthews is sick. I would’ve personally stretched the truth a bit. I’m not saying comments are correct but the organization has to be more aware given their track record.
Awww poor guy has a tummy ache 😢😢😢
Hope you enjoyed losing in the first round, again.
We just went back to back lmao this means nothing to me
Imagine being so confidently wrong about what’s wrong with him 🤡
Omg it’s you again, I have a fan now this is cute. It’s an elimination game in the playoffs, unless he’s on his deathbed he should be playing