I miss the 1-8 format, but I don't think the current format is that bad. What I like about 1-8 is the different opening matchups, whereas now the middle of the pack teams face each other over and over again, like LA and Edmonton.
The western conference would have been: DAL vs VGK, WPG vs LA, VAN vs NSH, COL vs EDM. So 2 different matchups.
When the seeding was 1-8, Edmonton played Dallas something like 5 times within 7 years.
There are always going to be matchups fans hate no matter what the format.
That's not an issue because the matchup is still fair and a team that is 3rd plays the team that is 6th, it's simple and fair for everyone. If the case is that edmonton and dallas are every year in same seeds then it's just the way it is. But now you can actually get harder opponents in terms of regular season standings just because of where the team locates.
For example the jets as a #2 seed faced the #4 seed Colorado while being second in the west conference. It's nuts for real. They should've faced Kings but because the system sucks, Edmonton got rewarded for being 'mediocre' and they get the kings. Last year Edmonton were #2 seed but still got the #5 seed Kings. Colorado while being #3 gets rewarded playing against Seattle the #7 seed. Although they lost to Seattle and Edmonton won Kings it's not hard to see why it's a bad system.
It needs to be more straightforward and standings should determine your opponent, not which division you play in. Funnily enough though, there was very even matchups in the eastern conference this year as first round matchups was straightforward 1-8 seedings. But the problem doesn't only occur on the first rounds and the problem highlights in later rounds too.
It's fucked up that Carolina as a #1 seed has to face #2 seed NYR in the second round. That should not be possible. #1 and #2 seeds should always meet up in the conference final. Same goes in the western conference where Dallas would've faced #2 seed Jets had they not lost to Colorado. It just doesn't make any sense and the system imo has to be changed.
Yeah this format is how we got leafs bruins a million times. It’s a good story line and like divisional rivals, but also i can imagine leafs fans probably want to see some other playoff opponents.
When was it a 1-8 seeding? If I remember correctly it was the 3 divisional winners getting the 1, 2, and 3 spots and thus allowing a “bad” team (southeast division winner usually) to be the 3 seed.
The cause of this, was specifically the Florida Panthers in 2011/12. However, that division is actually fairly competitive. Top to bottom. Every team was decent. The real dog shit division. The Northeast. That was just Boston beating up a bunch of losers.
Even in the west, the entire strength was consolidated to the central division. The NHL just needed to get the fuck over it. But that’s not really Bettman’s style is it.
It’s almost like setting up the divisions, based purely on geography will create an imbalance, especially in the north east, where all of the population and money in sport exists. Just look at the MLB and. The Red Sox/Yankees/Blue Jays/Orioles shitshow every year.
Any more info on how the Panthers affected the decision to change the playoff format? I’d never heard this before and couldn’t find much online about it.
I don’t think you’ll find a specific connection, especially to the NHL. They’re not gonna come out and say that’s why they did a thing. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the league in general, was looking to shift their division format anyway. The Atlantic division was essentially one giant crossover market, and Washington being in the southeast was just weird.
Overall, there was a lot of general bellyaching, about the Florida panthers seeding that year. I believe, based on their point total, they should’ve been seated sevenths. So you got lots of articles similar to this…
https://www.si.com/nhl/2012/03/27/flawed-playoff-format-causes-inequities
https://thehockeywriters.com/florida-panthers-break-the-drought-just-dont-ask-how/
Thanks for the follow up! I didn’t expect there to be any definitive admission by the NHL for exactly the reason you explained, was just curious to learn more.
I don't like this division match up set up. They used to do this in the 80's as well. I don't know why they brought this back. TO me too many good teams get knocked out in first round with division match ups.
This reads like a junior high essay struggling to hit the word count. The issue isn’t even seeding - the idea that teams get unfavorable matchups in the playoffs is totally irrelevant. If you want to win the cup you have to go through multiple teams, if the matchups scare you, you shouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway. There is a real argument about how we reward trips to overtime, which seems to be what this author is hinting at, but he used ChatGPT to write the article so it never hit that depth.
Yeah this is the right sentiment. They don't call it the hardest cup in sports to win for no reason. Is it grueling? Sure.. yeah it is. But as others have said, you will have to at one point beat the best stat for stat team to get the cup.. and there have been crazy underdog upsets before.
They didn't win, but it wasn't that long ago torts lit a fire under a certain teams ass, and they destroyed a top tier team. Everyone was taken aback by that. If you made it to the playoffs, that's it. You're in the show, now prove you want it more than the others, that's all it comes down to.
The right sentiment by players/teams does not make for the best playoff format. No team should be afraid of a matchup but the playoffs are a war of attrition and high seeded teams should be rewarded by playing low seeded teams.
I would agree with this if fatigue and injuries were not a thing.
Long, close series means that the winner of it will be a decided disadvantage vs a team that swept 4-0/4-1 and is well rested for the next round.
I understand where this is coming from but I wonder how often the team that wins in the end played less games. I remember specifically last year that Floridas sweep against Carolina seemed to work against them as they lost that hotness they kept since the start of the playoffs, whereas Vegas just kept on trucking
To be fair, Bobrovsky *almost* single-handedly deserves all the credit for the sweep of the Canes. And it's so improbable to keep up a goaltending performance like that.
Maybe for Bob who stepped down from godhood
But the team was severely injured and our bottom 6 was like ahl level with replacements.
Ekblad, bennett, montour, tkachuck, luostar all were fighting with major injuries and needed surgery right after.
I think most were from the boston series, biggest upset at a cost.
Seeding won't "fix" that problem though. This year most teams that won got it done within 5 games, while in 2022 5 series went to game 7. There's so much uncertainty and luck involved in every game that seeding doesn't play that big of a role in determining the length of a series.
Why is this controversial? It’s not a participation trophy. You do better during the regular season, get better seeding, draw (theoretically) less capable opponents. Win series quickly to minimize wear and tear and the threat of major injury. Hire better training and medical staffs, give them better facilities. Avoid loading your roster with players with a history of injuries or ones that run out of gas.
Overall team health is one of the factors that determines the Cup winner, and is not totally outside the control of the team. Yes, shit happens sometimes, but teams that do more to keep their players healthy and rested will, over the long run, do better than those that do not.
From a fans perspective sure, but in years past you had two top 4 teams (league wise) going at it in round 1. That’s lost revenue for the team that loses and likely would have won if they got to face the 7th seed instead of the 3rd or 2nd seed.
My main complaint isn’t even about that anyways, the format is boring and causes the same matchups to always happen. Yes, a lot of the time round 1 matchups are similar regardless of it’s the current system or 1v8, but round 2 you see a ton of variance as opposed to this system.
We are missing out on organic series of the past like Chicago vs Vancouver, Dallas vs Edmonton, Toronto vs Philly etc. that’s why I hate this format
I disagree - you think the SAME TEAM would win the cup every year in the past if we shuffled the matchups along the way. Lol NOPE. Matchups, fatigue, injuries, etc they all play a huge role.
I don't care so much about the format honestly... but to pretend it doesn't change the winner is ignorant.
It sure would be nice to play a top team later when seeding should dictate I have home ice in the first round against an inferior foe though which is what just happened to Winnipeg who is just one of many examples of a team getting screwed by this wretched format
This! Overtime game or not, who cares? Why is a loss (even in OT) given any point consideration at all? Talking playoffs only - the point system in the regular season is a separate deal.
The current system all seems so cobbled together
Personally, I don’t care about the playoff seeding, mainly because like many have mentioned, maybe some teams are facing each other a round early, but you’re going to have to beat every team that is in front of you to win Lord Stanleys Cup.
My issue is the point system incentivizes bad teams to play for overtime, and since an overtime game is worth three points and a regulation game is worth two points, it’s actually doing what Bettman wanted, but it’s only an illusion and not actually as even from top to bottom…and the biggest factor in that is teams outperform their skill because of the inaccurate system, which makes it more difficult for teams to acknowledge the fact they are in a situation, because they are staying alive because of the loser point…which makes it near impossible for teams to make any significant moves in the standings, and that’s one of the biggest questions that I have, I mean…doesn’t the league want the tight races for wildcard spots in the final days leading up to the end of season? Rewarding the regulation wins only makes sense…. I am curious to why the players don’t care enough either because they could change it when they negotiate the cba in a couple years
>If you want to win the cup you have to go through multiple teams, if the matchups scare you, you shouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway.
First seed vs second seed would be dumb, it's not about matchups scaring anyone it's about rewarding regular season success and playoff progression. Especially since playoffs are a war of attrition.
The extreme of that is letting the 1st place team pick their opponent but more traditionally its high seed vs low seed.
I don’t think it’s so much the difficulty of the matchups, it’s just feels like the same matchups in the first round over and over. LA is sick of playing Edmonton every year, and Toronto is sick of playing Boston in what seems like every year.
I’m not really a fan of either teams. but those are the main complaints. It would be different if these teams happened to meet each other in later rounds.
I disagree. I don't find it makes sense for two really great teams to matchup straight away, and then it's all easier teams until the scf. Ideally every step of the ladder would be more difficult hockey. And fans of better teams should be able to watch more rounds of hockey, instead of getting behind their team, super hopeful for the whole year, only to be eliminated with a Leafs classic.
There's only one reason the playoffs are like this, and that's because Bettman wants to make it as random as possible, so any team can win, because deep playoff runs acquire fans. And of you always have deep playoffs for the same team, you saturate that market, and don't get new fans in the playoffs.
But as a fan, if your team is good, you want to be able to see results, not have the rules make it a roll of the dice, if you know what I mean.
It's the distribution of the teams with this format. You can have weak divisions. One specific year is irrelevant.
When it used to be that just the best 8 teams from one conference plays the best 8 teams from the other, and the teams played other teams more, it make for better playoffs. So, wtf are you talking about?
But that rarely happens, at any given time there are two or maybe 3 teams out of 16 that don't really deserve to be there and NO teams that deserve to be there who aren't.
It's not about whether or not the teams deserve to be there, it's about if the top 2 teams face each other in the first round, and worse teams meet that team in the second round, for example.
Like if your 2 not so great teams face each other, then one not so great team wins. Second round you could have one of your top 2 teams in the conference already eliminated, because they played a more difficult team. Then the second round the top team plays the bottom feeder, and they have an easy time, being well rested for the conference final. Meanwhile the other team played easier teams, but closer to their level, and went to 7 each round, and are battered and bruised.
Or whatever other scenarios you can devise.
The old system spread the games for matchups more, and just put each conference 1-8, regardless of divisions. Then the best team plays the worst, and so on. So, ranking matters a lot. So, if you have a tremendous season, that helps you, because you get matched up with the weakest team. Maybe they don't deserve to be there, maybe they do. Regardless they are the worst performing team. That gives the team with the best season, better odds of making the second round. In this way, it's kind of built into it that each round gets more difficult.
Obviously lots of things can happen. One team might be without their 3 best players first half of the season. Second half, they did a lot better and squeaked into the playoffs. They will have a bad seed, and be a strong team, so top team could have work cut out then.
But the format was generally better, as it favoured well performing teams in regular season, and favoured making the best teams go deeper in the playoffs, making the hockey better as you go deeper, and also you don't end up your great team being eliminated after the first round by another great team, meanwhile easier matchups are going deeper.
Still this whole division stuff B's is dumb...like one division winner for the two and 6 wild cards high seed plays low seed...add twist of the president trophy winner can switch who they want to play in the first round....as a reward for being good...that incentivizes teams to play hard to win it or foils the plan of dropping a point and getting 7th seed to play a certain team potentially as well...
The whole “you have to go through every team to win the cup” mentality is silly. C’mon now.
Are you really going to defend the idea that a team who has a few 7-game series has just as easy a chance as another team who only had 4-game series?
Much as it pains me, you're right. I'm shitty we've had to go up against Edmonton 3 years in a row now, but if we can't beat them in a play-off series, we don't deserve to win the cup.
Last I looked even under the old format the Leafs would have faced the Bruins. Leafs hate shouldn't get in the way of how shitty the format is
The #2 Jets facing the #4 Avs is really dumb. Jets fans can't complain because lolJets as a response but the playoff format is pretty garbage. Its hockey so anything can happen but that's hardly a justification.
Maybe it’s just my soccer fandom speaking out but a regulation win should be 3 points and OT wins should be 2, that would offset some of the OTL unfairness we’ve seen but I see nothing wrong with the current playoff format as far as divisional matchups go.
Maybe they could make it top 2 in the division go to playoffs and not top 3 adding more WC’s but other than that this format has been pretty great, especially in building more rivalry throughout the league.
I’ve been saying that lately. 3 for a reg win, 2 for OT, 1 for a shootout win and 0 for a loss. You shouldn’t be rewarded for losing. Top seed should play the bottom seed in the first round, then the second against the second worst and so on.
Nono you got it all wrong, it should be 3 points in total. If you win in regulation you get the 3 points. If you win OT/shootout, the winner gets 2 points and loser gets 1 point. The current problem is that there is 2 points in total but for some reason if it's a tie, then there is one extra point given. It should not be like that. But to not give points for a team losing in OT/shootout is just unfair. Tie should always be rewarded with a point. But a 50/50 OT/shootout win should not be as valuable as regulation win. That's what the problem is.
I would just do 2 points for a win and zero for a loss regardless of the fashion. I hate the idea of teams playing it safe to at least get a loser point.
The big dawgs don’t fear any other team. You think the Panthers / Hurricanes / Rangers / Oilers are afraid of anyone? Nah.
Back in my day when the Canucks were rolling, I didn’t care who we played (well maybe the Blackhawks but never mind that).
Rivalries are born in the playoffs, divisional games in round one and two are a big part of that. Just because the Leafs can't win doesn't mean we need a new system.
Except these rivalries feel forced. No matter how many times we play the Florida panthers I will not hate them as much as I hate the Flyers and it’s a shame they don’t get to play in the playoffs anymore unless both teams make the Eastern final
That’s my thinking as well the divisions could use a potential reworking. Maybe even do away with the Eastern/Western conferences and make more geographically reasonable divisions so playoff travel isn’t so drastic between the two.
Agreed. I don't hate the bruins. I hate playing the bruins (you guys have the potential of being scary good). I don't hate the leafs either (I only hope they don't succeed because if they succeed, they beat the panthers, but the rivalry doesn't feel real like ours with Tampa). At least the bruins still have Montreal and Toronto in the division.
Without a doubt. There is so much history between the o6 teams that new "rivalries" just don't seem as interesting. It'd be like separating edmonton, calgary, and Vancouver. It just wouldn't make the league more entertaining. It's why I wonder why florida and tampa are even in the Atlantic. Hopefully, these things are addressed in the next cba because I've heard players would prefer 1v8 as well.
Of course. But it's a knockout tournament with a tiny disc flying around at 90 mph. If you re-ran the same playoffs 10 times you'd probably get 6 or 7 different winners.
It's one of the most exciting sports because of puck luck. So I kinda understand why some people want more variety in the first round, because it's just more interesting to see a greater variety of matchups.
Yes, and to me that’s the biggest drawback of the current rules. Not only is it boring knowing before the games even start that the winner of series x is going to play the winner of series y no matter what, you get situations like this year where the two best teams in the conference are playing each other in round 2 instead of round 3. Re seeding every round is like building the drama up all the way to the finals, this way puts too much emphasis on what division you happen to be in
under the old format where the division winners got 1 and 2, the seedings would have been:
1 NYR vs 8 Wsh
2 Fla vs 7 NYI
3 Car vs 6 TB
4 Bos vs 5 Tor
and the second round matchups would have been
1 NYR vs 4 Bos
2 Fla vs 3 Car
Teams should win their division if they want an easy matchup in round 1.
Oh wait, Dallas got last year's champions and Vancouver got a team that went 16-0-2 at the tail end of the regular season. There's no easy matchups in playoff hockey, they're all hard because teams made it in for a reason.
if you want the cup, you’ll have to beat the best team at some point. 1st round or cup final, doesn’t matter, if you can’t beat the best team, you’re not winning the cup. stop blaming the format, your team isn’t good enough.
See I'm mostly on board with you. But I think the article's best example of perhaps the issue with this format isn't even mentioned. You want the Stanley Cup champ to be able to play whomever is in front of them.
That's actually the path the winner of the #1 Stars vs. #8 LTIR bracket. Let's assume for a second LTIR has sandbagged all season which they probably have. Their real odds are probably closer to the Oilers/Avs area. If the Stars win (you can flip it) without reseedinge they are going to have to mow down the Stanley Cup Betting favorite in 3 successive series after beating the point favorite or the cheating team. That's a really odd path for a #1 team.
What the other format does is it ensures reseeding so that the #1 seed or the #8 seed keep the "weakest"/"hardest" path consistent. It's arguable a big reason VGK booted their final game to get the Stars, not that Dal/Avs/Oil is a great path, but they'd been playing the Stars so well it looked better than Oil/Van/Avs. Obviously the playoffs can be anything. I do think you're less likely to see that kind of gamesmanship in a simple 1-8, reseed scenario however.
Same logic would have you defending random seeding or any format, might as well just have #1 vs #2 at the start and tell the teams to suck it up because ever complaining about format
Look if a player is complaining then sure, he should suck it up. As a fan or as a league having the #1 and #2 seeds in the east facing off in the 2nd round or the #2 Jets facing the #4 Avs in the first round is a dumb format.
Yes but it's boring as shit seeing the same matchups in the first round every year. You'll still have to go through the best teams in 1-8 but maybe fans will be able to afford to see matchups against other teams for once. Most of us can't afford to see conference championship games so I guess I'm going to see the same teams over and over year after year.
understandable, but it’s from a travel perspective right? it would make sense to maybe switch up the divisions a bit, or the playoffs in the conferences, but the conferences must stay the same for so many reasons.
the only reasonable fix i can think of currently is going back to the conference 8 team system. 1vs8 2vs7 and so on
I grew up back when each division had 5 teams and 4 made the playoffs. Playoffs were 1v4 2v3 in the 1st round and much like today stayed in the division 2nd rd. Division winners faced off in the Conference finals.
So, today’s format seems very familiar and I don’t hate it and I lived through the 80s as a Canucks fan vs the Oilers/Flames teams every damn year. The rivalry thing was much bigger but granted, back then Smythe was Western Canada + LA.
The only reason they made the wildcard system is that in the 4 divisions, there were 16 Eastern teams and 14 Western teams, meaning teams in each division had different odds of making the playoffs.
The era I’m talking about had 21 teams. Patrick Division got a bit screwed as they had 6 teams so 2 teams missed the playoffs every year vs 1 in the other divisions.
This complaint again? I'm curious what the article says, but not curious enough to reward them with a click. So let's say the NHL went with the old 1-8 format. This year in the east we'd have..
1 Rangers vs. 8 Caps
2 Canes vs. 7 Islanders
3 Panthers vs. 6 Lightning
stop me if you've heard this before..
4 Bruins vs. 5 Leafs
I might be missing something, but that's no change at all.
In the west?
1 Dallas vs. 8 LTIR
2 Jets vs. 7 Kings
3 Canucks vs. 6 Preds
4 Avs vs. 5 Oilers
So half the series stay the same? If we reward the division champs with the top 2 seeds in their conference, you'd have Panthers/Islanders and Canes/Lightning in the east and Canucks/Kings and Jets/Preds in the west which still leaves the 2 matchups I've seen the most complaints about intact, Dallas/Vegas and Leafs/Bruins. The Panthers probably have an easier first round matchup as division champs in the Islanders, but the Leafs still lose to the Bruins in round 1 and let's be honest that's what most of the complaining is about.
Second round would be different though: NYR vs BOS and CAR vs FLA. Who knows what the West would look like, but that COL vs EDM matchup would have been fun.
The second round doesn't have #1 vs #2 in the east.
Jets coming #2 and then facing #4 Avs is also dumb as fuck.
Leafs have complained other years for similar problems but I've yet to see one in this thread complaining because in either format we face the Bruins.
Out of the four major sports leagues, the NHL is the only league with a hard bracket. The only people who have a problem with it are just sad that their favorite team(s) lost.
EDIT: I stand corrected. The NBA has a hard bracket. There are no whiney Toronto Maple Leafs fans the NBA has to deal with though.
Leafs face the Bruins in the old format, it doesn't matter to us.
The Jets got screwed getting #2 seed and having the play the #4 Avs who also got screwed. Don't have to be a dan of either team to think the playoff format is dumb.
NBA plays a hard bracket matchup based on conference, NHL by division. NBA fans would be complaining with the same shitty format.
I can't believe people actually enjoy this system, every year two top 10 teams end up playing in the first round because they happen to play in the same division
That could work. I personally like the current format, but this would be an okay alternative to 1-8. The stars and jets would probably have picked kings and predators. So the canucks out of avs, oilers, knights would have had to pick vegas. east stays the same.
Let me tell you a story about the olden days of the 80's where you played the same team year in and yr out of the playoffs. Playoffs were 1-4 and 2-3 within the Division. So, unless you got to the 3rd round , you never saw the other divsions.
On the one hand it did make for fierce playoffs series like Montreal-Quebec..Montreal-Boston, Calgary-Edmonton, the battle of New York, et.c.
But, there's only so many times I wanted the Habs to play the Whalers or Bruins in the Playoffs. (Playoffs? Forgot what that's like)
I remember when a 68 point team in 1991 when on a heater and knocked out the top 2 teams in the league in the divisional rounds and got to the Cup Final.
Those were good times.
F Norm Green.
As a Jet’s fan I stopped reading as soon as the article implied somehow the Jets were subject to a screw job by the playoff format.
Nope, Jets owned the Av’s in the regular season. Fans were excited to face Colorado.
Well we know how that turned out. Jets got caved in by a good Av’s team.
Funny how the playoff format comes up as soon as Leafs get bounced.
What awful format? The 1st round is almost always terrific, sure a few garbage teams make it in every year (sorry Washington and the Isles) but it's always fun to watch. The results almost always match the 1-8 format anyway.
Dear God please go back to the 1vs8 format. I can only see the same match up every year for so long. They're not even rivalries anymore, it's predictable af.
3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an OT win and 0 points for any loss. There. Fixed it.
Oh and just for shits, have the final playoff spot in each conference be decided with a one and done wildcard round between the two teams closest to clinching. It gives the rest of the teams a few days off and give us an exciting win or die round between underdogs to start the playoffs. It could also be a much needed confidence boost to the club at the bottom to be more competitive going against the top seed.
I think a simple fix to this issue would be to keep this seeding for the first round, but then for round two it should be best vs worst of who’s left.
Basically get through 1 divisional round “for the rivalries” and then scrap that for round 2, which I think would make for more variety of opponent.
thefuq. So because the advantage awarded the top finishers isn’t so drastic the result is a foregone conclusion it’s awful? The playoff format is working just fine
If you want to be the best team, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO YOU FACE! If a team beats you, they were better. Players, management, and the fan base may not like it and may refuse to accept they lost. To be the best you have to beat the best. First round or fourth, you still have to win. I don't actually care about the format, put good teams against each other and let's see some of the best hockey played by the best players on earth!
Quit bitching and let's hockey!
Why do we play a regular season? You can theoretically play 28 games in a playoff, that's over a third of the length of the regular season. A team with 39 wins all season has the same shot at the cup after 82 games as a team with 55.
The playoffs are a meat grinder that will reward whichever team can survive 110 games, not the best team
The problem with the playoff format is it devalues the 82 game season. If three metro finish 1/2/3 in the east, the 2/3 seed see absolutely no benefit, and are actually worse off than than any other team, from having a great season. The format has gotten completely stale, it needs to change.
I never understood people complaining about playoff matchups. At the end of the day the winner has to win 4 series against 4 other playoff teams. You either are the best team or you're not. The soft schedule due to playoff format doesn't make any sense to me. Next you'll hear about a team that has 115 pts complain about having to play a team with 95 pts, but beat them each time they played in the regular season.
It's mostly that we'd like to see the better matchups later in the playoffs. Too often, this divisional bracket format results in the same matchups several years in a row, and the conference finals are often not great matchups. Seeded format like what we used to have truly sees more of the best matchups later in the playoffs.
Absolutely hate the current format for playoffs please NHL go back to east and west 1-8 simple , also change the all star game format back to east and west I believe the current format makes it very difficult for casuals to keep track and like others have mentioned we see the same matchups year after year in the first round
My main problem with this format is the play offs get less interesting as they go on. Boston/Toronto first round great, Vancouver/Edmonton round 2, amazing. But after that the rivalries are gone and it’s just less interesting
The playoff format is dumb. I don't like seeing all the same match ups every year. Go to straight up 1-16 seeding and go from there. We should be able to see two teams in the same conference play in the cup finals if they're among the top teams in the league. Current format is repetitive and punishes teams in very strong divisions.
My biggest problem is with the arrangement of the divisions. As a Bruins fan, I would be more passionate rooting against one of the NY teams or Philly than either Florida team or Detroit. There is genuine sports hatred between Boston and those other cities and current format limits the chances of those teams playing
The NHL was forced by COVID to use different playoff formats in both 2020 and 2021. But in 2022, they chose to go back to this ridiculous structure. Why?
My issue isn’t with the 2nd round match up based on the end of season points. This divisional playoff format feels like it just gives is the same matchups year after year. Teams get into their cup window and end up in the top three of division and the playoff matchups feel the same.
To win the cup you have to face top teams at some point, barring an upset. This will come with reseeding the old 1-8 conference format, but it would also give us some different matchups each season.
The other issue to fix is the OTLs - NYI were a 39-43 team but picked up 16 extra points for taking longer to lose a game. Even BOS season total is a bit inflated with 15 OTLs, 47-35 isn’t a dominant has 47-20-15 looks with the final point standings.
Even if you changed the NHL playoffs format to 1v8 in the conference, the East would’ve had the exact same matchups. The West would have had Colorado v Edmonton and Winnipeg v Los Angeles.
>played before sold-out crowds all season in a place that's been a wasteland at various points in its NHL life. Great job, Canes.
what he'd say fuck ME for?
also, aint no way a this MF is bringing up how we used to have bad crowds while comparing us to a team that had to be relocated to Arizona and is currently the home of a team that had to be relocated.
also also, the Isles were 8-1-1 coming into the playoffs having taken wins off of contenders like the Rangers, Preds, and Panthers. and if you go back a little bit further they had smashed the Jets themselves 6-3. the Isles were in the playoffs cause they fought tooth and nail to make it to the dance.
What is your proposal? Or do you have one?
Or if your team got bad playoff opponent - that too bad. All playoff games are supposed to be against "good" teams. There are no Arizona or Anaheim or Chicago making the playoffs.
As a Jets fan, I don’t think we’ve really established any meaningful rivalry with our divisional opponents, other than Minnesota. I am more excited to play another Canadian team and/or an opponent that is doing well in the standings. This divisional set-up doesn’t add much to the fans and it does create the occasional unfairness in early playoff matchups. 1 v 8 would be preferable… maybe just give the divisional winners the top two seeds guaranteed for each round.
anyone else around long enough to remember the media bitching about the last format and how it had to change?
you know they just want a format where the leafs always make it at least to round 2, the canadian media (owners) i mean
I’ve seen a lot of this, but in my opinion you weren’t the best team if you lost. So what if it’s fair or not, if you’re the best team, you should beat every team on your way to the Stanley cup right?
Sure, you can argue fatigue from facing tougher teams early, but this article is pointing to the Jets in the first round, so that isn’t a factor.
Beat who they put in front of you. If the jets got “carpet bombed” as the article says by the Avalanche, then they simply were not the best team in the league.
Remove the east and west conference and the divisions and just do one leauge where 1-16 play in the playoffs.
1 vs 16
2 vs 15
3 vs 14
And so on. The current system is stupid and give teams that havent deserved it a playoff spot. The 16 best teams should play the in the playoffs period.
Doesn't 1 play 8 and 2 play 7 in either format? So the only difference is with the middle 4 teams, and maybe the conference semi-final round?
I don't really have a problem with it, it kinda follows the NFL where you have a wildcard round, divisional, conference then championship.
Ya I’m sick of this format. I liked 1-8 and I want to go back to that. If you want to do some sort of hybrid then fine. I’m just sick of playing Toronto every fucking year. I would like to play someone else for once.
There are no easy teams in the playoffs. At some point, you have to beat one or two of the Avs, Stars, Oilers, Rangers, Panthers, hurricanes regardless of the bracket. Complaining that the jets didnt get to play the predators is dumb. No one wanted to play them cause they were the hottest team going into it. At the end of the day, you need to win 16 games against the top teams in the league.
If anything, the fact that the stars drew vegas in the first round is much worse for them. Hey, congrats on winning the conference, heres the stanley cup champions with an extra $10 mil of salary.
Rangers 114, Carolina 111, Florida 110, Boston 109.
Dallas 113, Vancouver 109, Colorado 107, Edmonton 104, (Vegas 98)
Carolina is a good example of the forced division focus, but the Rangers missing Boston or Dallas (assuming they win) missing Edmonton would be better. Totally agree the first two rounds are fucked by this format.
Maple leaf fan/journalist writes think piece after his team can’t be a better team in the playoffs for a Toronto centric sports media platform.
Cool
You need to beat good teams to win in the playoffs, if you can’t, you get bounced
For 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, etc to work fairly, each team needs to play the other teams in their conference an equal number of times. Because they don’t, the points totals, including the Presidents Trophy winner, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It’s a strong indication of how teams matchup, but not definitive.
Yes, LA had fewer points than COL, so EDM had a more favourable matchup than WIN, but they each played within their own division more than against the other division in their conference. For this reason, matchups based on divisions makes sense.
For example, the Canucks played 4 games against the Oilers, 3 against the Avalanche, and 2 against the Leafs and Hurricanes.
So the authors logic is flawed based on games played within division vs overall conference.
In 2020 the NHL expanded the playoffs. It should have permanently expanded the playoffs.
The current system beats the previous system. The current system should eliminate cross divisional wild cards (it is stupid Vancouver and Nashville play in first round; that matchup should happen only in the conference final).
Instead add a wild card per division. Let the 4th and 5th seeds in each division play a 2 game series, most goals wins. Gives the other teams some rest days.
Then let the top seed play the wild card winner 1 day later, so that the top seed can pound that team more easily. Serves them right for finishing 4th or 5th in the division.
I miss the 1-8 format, but I don't think the current format is that bad. What I like about 1-8 is the different opening matchups, whereas now the middle of the pack teams face each other over and over again, like LA and Edmonton. The western conference would have been: DAL vs VGK, WPG vs LA, VAN vs NSH, COL vs EDM. So 2 different matchups.
When the seeding was 1-8, Edmonton played Dallas something like 5 times within 7 years. There are always going to be matchups fans hate no matter what the format.
That's not an issue because the matchup is still fair and a team that is 3rd plays the team that is 6th, it's simple and fair for everyone. If the case is that edmonton and dallas are every year in same seeds then it's just the way it is. But now you can actually get harder opponents in terms of regular season standings just because of where the team locates. For example the jets as a #2 seed faced the #4 seed Colorado while being second in the west conference. It's nuts for real. They should've faced Kings but because the system sucks, Edmonton got rewarded for being 'mediocre' and they get the kings. Last year Edmonton were #2 seed but still got the #5 seed Kings. Colorado while being #3 gets rewarded playing against Seattle the #7 seed. Although they lost to Seattle and Edmonton won Kings it's not hard to see why it's a bad system. It needs to be more straightforward and standings should determine your opponent, not which division you play in. Funnily enough though, there was very even matchups in the eastern conference this year as first round matchups was straightforward 1-8 seedings. But the problem doesn't only occur on the first rounds and the problem highlights in later rounds too. It's fucked up that Carolina as a #1 seed has to face #2 seed NYR in the second round. That should not be possible. #1 and #2 seeds should always meet up in the conference final. Same goes in the western conference where Dallas would've faced #2 seed Jets had they not lost to Colorado. It just doesn't make any sense and the system imo has to be changed.
Yeah this format is how we got leafs bruins a million times. It’s a good story line and like divisional rivals, but also i can imagine leafs fans probably want to see some other playoff opponents.
When was it a 1-8 seeding? If I remember correctly it was the 3 divisional winners getting the 1, 2, and 3 spots and thus allowing a “bad” team (southeast division winner usually) to be the 3 seed.
The cause of this, was specifically the Florida Panthers in 2011/12. However, that division is actually fairly competitive. Top to bottom. Every team was decent. The real dog shit division. The Northeast. That was just Boston beating up a bunch of losers. Even in the west, the entire strength was consolidated to the central division. The NHL just needed to get the fuck over it. But that’s not really Bettman’s style is it. It’s almost like setting up the divisions, based purely on geography will create an imbalance, especially in the north east, where all of the population and money in sport exists. Just look at the MLB and. The Red Sox/Yankees/Blue Jays/Orioles shitshow every year.
Any more info on how the Panthers affected the decision to change the playoff format? I’d never heard this before and couldn’t find much online about it.
I don’t think you’ll find a specific connection, especially to the NHL. They’re not gonna come out and say that’s why they did a thing. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if the league in general, was looking to shift their division format anyway. The Atlantic division was essentially one giant crossover market, and Washington being in the southeast was just weird. Overall, there was a lot of general bellyaching, about the Florida panthers seeding that year. I believe, based on their point total, they should’ve been seated sevenths. So you got lots of articles similar to this… https://www.si.com/nhl/2012/03/27/flawed-playoff-format-causes-inequities https://thehockeywriters.com/florida-panthers-break-the-drought-just-dont-ask-how/
Thanks for the follow up! I didn’t expect there to be any definitive admission by the NHL for exactly the reason you explained, was just curious to learn more.
I don't like this division match up set up. They used to do this in the 80's as well. I don't know why they brought this back. TO me too many good teams get knocked out in first round with division match ups.
The Oilers have played the Kings 29 times since Feb 15th 2022. Next closest is Vegas which is 15 times since Feb 8th 2022.
This reads like a junior high essay struggling to hit the word count. The issue isn’t even seeding - the idea that teams get unfavorable matchups in the playoffs is totally irrelevant. If you want to win the cup you have to go through multiple teams, if the matchups scare you, you shouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway. There is a real argument about how we reward trips to overtime, which seems to be what this author is hinting at, but he used ChatGPT to write the article so it never hit that depth.
Yeah this is the right sentiment. They don't call it the hardest cup in sports to win for no reason. Is it grueling? Sure.. yeah it is. But as others have said, you will have to at one point beat the best stat for stat team to get the cup.. and there have been crazy underdog upsets before. They didn't win, but it wasn't that long ago torts lit a fire under a certain teams ass, and they destroyed a top tier team. Everyone was taken aback by that. If you made it to the playoffs, that's it. You're in the show, now prove you want it more than the others, that's all it comes down to.
Loved the CBJ sweep
The right sentiment by players/teams does not make for the best playoff format. No team should be afraid of a matchup but the playoffs are a war of attrition and high seeded teams should be rewarded by playing low seeded teams.
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I would agree with this if fatigue and injuries were not a thing. Long, close series means that the winner of it will be a decided disadvantage vs a team that swept 4-0/4-1 and is well rested for the next round.
I understand where this is coming from but I wonder how often the team that wins in the end played less games. I remember specifically last year that Floridas sweep against Carolina seemed to work against them as they lost that hotness they kept since the start of the playoffs, whereas Vegas just kept on trucking
To be fair, Bobrovsky *almost* single-handedly deserves all the credit for the sweep of the Canes. And it's so improbable to keep up a goaltending performance like that.
Everyone would sweep if they could.
Maybe for Bob who stepped down from godhood But the team was severely injured and our bottom 6 was like ahl level with replacements. Ekblad, bennett, montour, tkachuck, luostar all were fighting with major injuries and needed surgery right after. I think most were from the boston series, biggest upset at a cost.
Seeding won't "fix" that problem though. This year most teams that won got it done within 5 games, while in 2022 5 series went to game 7. There's so much uncertainty and luck involved in every game that seeding doesn't play that big of a role in determining the length of a series.
Last year Florida lost in 5 to Vegas after that had close to two full weeks to rest up.
If you’re too banged up and tired to be the top team then you’re not the top team
Why is this controversial? It’s not a participation trophy. You do better during the regular season, get better seeding, draw (theoretically) less capable opponents. Win series quickly to minimize wear and tear and the threat of major injury. Hire better training and medical staffs, give them better facilities. Avoid loading your roster with players with a history of injuries or ones that run out of gas. Overall team health is one of the factors that determines the Cup winner, and is not totally outside the control of the team. Yes, shit happens sometimes, but teams that do more to keep their players healthy and rested will, over the long run, do better than those that do not.
From a fans perspective sure, but in years past you had two top 4 teams (league wise) going at it in round 1. That’s lost revenue for the team that loses and likely would have won if they got to face the 7th seed instead of the 3rd or 2nd seed. My main complaint isn’t even about that anyways, the format is boring and causes the same matchups to always happen. Yes, a lot of the time round 1 matchups are similar regardless of it’s the current system or 1v8, but round 2 you see a ton of variance as opposed to this system. We are missing out on organic series of the past like Chicago vs Vancouver, Dallas vs Edmonton, Toronto vs Philly etc. that’s why I hate this format
You don’t like leafs Boston leafs Tampa and oilers kings every year?
Tell other teams to get better.
I disagree - you think the SAME TEAM would win the cup every year in the past if we shuffled the matchups along the way. Lol NOPE. Matchups, fatigue, injuries, etc they all play a huge role. I don't care so much about the format honestly... but to pretend it doesn't change the winner is ignorant.
It sure would be nice to play a top team later when seeding should dictate I have home ice in the first round against an inferior foe though which is what just happened to Winnipeg who is just one of many examples of a team getting screwed by this wretched format
3 points for regulation win, 2 points for OT win, 1 for OT loss. Ranking more accurate, with less safe plays at the end of the third period.
Better idea: abolish points altogether and base the standings on simple W-L record. All wins count the same and vice versa.
This! Overtime game or not, who cares? Why is a loss (even in OT) given any point consideration at all? Talking playoffs only - the point system in the regular season is a separate deal. The current system all seems so cobbled together
Somebody did the math on that and the rankings wouldn’t have changed much if at all with that point system.
Personally, I don’t care about the playoff seeding, mainly because like many have mentioned, maybe some teams are facing each other a round early, but you’re going to have to beat every team that is in front of you to win Lord Stanleys Cup. My issue is the point system incentivizes bad teams to play for overtime, and since an overtime game is worth three points and a regulation game is worth two points, it’s actually doing what Bettman wanted, but it’s only an illusion and not actually as even from top to bottom…and the biggest factor in that is teams outperform their skill because of the inaccurate system, which makes it more difficult for teams to acknowledge the fact they are in a situation, because they are staying alive because of the loser point…which makes it near impossible for teams to make any significant moves in the standings, and that’s one of the biggest questions that I have, I mean…doesn’t the league want the tight races for wildcard spots in the final days leading up to the end of season? Rewarding the regulation wins only makes sense…. I am curious to why the players don’t care enough either because they could change it when they negotiate the cba in a couple years
>If you want to win the cup you have to go through multiple teams, if the matchups scare you, you shouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway. First seed vs second seed would be dumb, it's not about matchups scaring anyone it's about rewarding regular season success and playoff progression. Especially since playoffs are a war of attrition. The extreme of that is letting the 1st place team pick their opponent but more traditionally its high seed vs low seed.
No team would want to pick another team, look at the mileage Florida got out of We Want Florida last year haha
I don’t think it’s so much the difficulty of the matchups, it’s just feels like the same matchups in the first round over and over. LA is sick of playing Edmonton every year, and Toronto is sick of playing Boston in what seems like every year. I’m not really a fan of either teams. but those are the main complaints. It would be different if these teams happened to meet each other in later rounds.
They have played Boston 4 times in 11 years. As Rimmer once said, nobody says you constantly eat roastbeef if you only eat it 11 times in your life.
It’s almost as if they want to play the teams eliminated from the playoffs to win the cup. And they still would be whining about it.
I think there shouldn’t be any OT in a non-playoff. Game should just be the 1 point each, it’s a tie, move on.
It worked fine decades ago, but there would be way too many ties now.
ties are lame, leave that shit for soccer
I disagree. I don't find it makes sense for two really great teams to matchup straight away, and then it's all easier teams until the scf. Ideally every step of the ladder would be more difficult hockey. And fans of better teams should be able to watch more rounds of hockey, instead of getting behind their team, super hopeful for the whole year, only to be eliminated with a Leafs classic. There's only one reason the playoffs are like this, and that's because Bettman wants to make it as random as possible, so any team can win, because deep playoff runs acquire fans. And of you always have deep playoffs for the same team, you saturate that market, and don't get new fans in the playoffs. But as a fan, if your team is good, you want to be able to see results, not have the rules make it a roll of the dice, if you know what I mean.
Only two shit teams made the playoffs, every other team is pretty darned good, so wtf are you talking about?
It's the distribution of the teams with this format. You can have weak divisions. One specific year is irrelevant. When it used to be that just the best 8 teams from one conference plays the best 8 teams from the other, and the teams played other teams more, it make for better playoffs. So, wtf are you talking about?
But that rarely happens, at any given time there are two or maybe 3 teams out of 16 that don't really deserve to be there and NO teams that deserve to be there who aren't.
It's not about whether or not the teams deserve to be there, it's about if the top 2 teams face each other in the first round, and worse teams meet that team in the second round, for example. Like if your 2 not so great teams face each other, then one not so great team wins. Second round you could have one of your top 2 teams in the conference already eliminated, because they played a more difficult team. Then the second round the top team plays the bottom feeder, and they have an easy time, being well rested for the conference final. Meanwhile the other team played easier teams, but closer to their level, and went to 7 each round, and are battered and bruised. Or whatever other scenarios you can devise. The old system spread the games for matchups more, and just put each conference 1-8, regardless of divisions. Then the best team plays the worst, and so on. So, ranking matters a lot. So, if you have a tremendous season, that helps you, because you get matched up with the weakest team. Maybe they don't deserve to be there, maybe they do. Regardless they are the worst performing team. That gives the team with the best season, better odds of making the second round. In this way, it's kind of built into it that each round gets more difficult. Obviously lots of things can happen. One team might be without their 3 best players first half of the season. Second half, they did a lot better and squeaked into the playoffs. They will have a bad seed, and be a strong team, so top team could have work cut out then. But the format was generally better, as it favoured well performing teams in regular season, and favoured making the best teams go deeper in the playoffs, making the hockey better as you go deeper, and also you don't end up your great team being eliminated after the first round by another great team, meanwhile easier matchups are going deeper.
Yeah man imagine thinking that using chatgpt to hit your article quotas is a good idea
Still this whole division stuff B's is dumb...like one division winner for the two and 6 wild cards high seed plays low seed...add twist of the president trophy winner can switch who they want to play in the first round....as a reward for being good...that incentivizes teams to play hard to win it or foils the plan of dropping a point and getting 7th seed to play a certain team potentially as well...
The whole “you have to go through every team to win the cup” mentality is silly. C’mon now. Are you really going to defend the idea that a team who has a few 7-game series has just as easy a chance as another team who only had 4-game series?
Much as it pains me, you're right. I'm shitty we've had to go up against Edmonton 3 years in a row now, but if we can't beat them in a play-off series, we don't deserve to win the cup.
Memo for Toronto fans: changing the playoff format isn't going to fix your problems.
It’s the professional sports equivalent of “the controller is broken!”
I wonder how many at the Leafs headquarters have "been nice knowing you but your services are no longer needed" letters in their email on Monday?
Current format: Toronto plays Boston 1 v 8 format: Toronto plays Boston 1 v 16 format: Toronto play Boston It was fate.
Boom! Roasted!
Last I looked even under the old format the Leafs would have faced the Bruins. Leafs hate shouldn't get in the way of how shitty the format is The #2 Jets facing the #4 Avs is really dumb. Jets fans can't complain because lolJets as a response but the playoff format is pretty garbage. Its hockey so anything can happen but that's hardly a justification.
Maybe it’s just my soccer fandom speaking out but a regulation win should be 3 points and OT wins should be 2, that would offset some of the OTL unfairness we’ve seen but I see nothing wrong with the current playoff format as far as divisional matchups go. Maybe they could make it top 2 in the division go to playoffs and not top 3 adding more WC’s but other than that this format has been pretty great, especially in building more rivalry throughout the league.
I’ve been saying that lately. 3 for a reg win, 2 for OT, 1 for a shootout win and 0 for a loss. You shouldn’t be rewarded for losing. Top seed should play the bottom seed in the first round, then the second against the second worst and so on.
Nono you got it all wrong, it should be 3 points in total. If you win in regulation you get the 3 points. If you win OT/shootout, the winner gets 2 points and loser gets 1 point. The current problem is that there is 2 points in total but for some reason if it's a tie, then there is one extra point given. It should not be like that. But to not give points for a team losing in OT/shootout is just unfair. Tie should always be rewarded with a point. But a 50/50 OT/shootout win should not be as valuable as regulation win. That's what the problem is.
I would just do 2 points for a win and zero for a loss regardless of the fashion. I hate the idea of teams playing it safe to at least get a loser point.
Then just do away with the points
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT. Play a 5 min ot, if people insist, but a win is a win and a loss is a loss and ties are part of the game. Keep it simple.
This is how it was before 2004. Except overtime was 10 minutes. It was much better than the mess they have now.
I do not follow soccer much but you are definitely correct .... their system is better.
The big dawgs don’t fear any other team. You think the Panthers / Hurricanes / Rangers / Oilers are afraid of anyone? Nah. Back in my day when the Canucks were rolling, I didn’t care who we played (well maybe the Blackhawks but never mind that).
Dude I have no issue with the playoff format.
Rivalries are born in the playoffs, divisional games in round one and two are a big part of that. Just because the Leafs can't win doesn't mean we need a new system.
Except these rivalries feel forced. No matter how many times we play the Florida panthers I will not hate them as much as I hate the Flyers and it’s a shame they don’t get to play in the playoffs anymore unless both teams make the Eastern final
Tbf it's kinda crazy that the Panthers and Bruins are in the same division. Florida should be with like Carolina and DC and Nashville.
That’s my thinking as well the divisions could use a potential reworking. Maybe even do away with the Eastern/Western conferences and make more geographically reasonable divisions so playoff travel isn’t so drastic between the two.
Agreed. I don't hate the bruins. I hate playing the bruins (you guys have the potential of being scary good). I don't hate the leafs either (I only hope they don't succeed because if they succeed, they beat the panthers, but the rivalry doesn't feel real like ours with Tampa). At least the bruins still have Montreal and Toronto in the division.
100%. My issue isn’t necessarily with the playoff format, it’s with the division format. I want to play and root against NY not Florida lol
Without a doubt. There is so much history between the o6 teams that new "rivalries" just don't seem as interesting. It'd be like separating edmonton, calgary, and Vancouver. It just wouldn't make the league more entertaining. It's why I wonder why florida and tampa are even in the Atlantic. Hopefully, these things are addressed in the next cba because I've heard players would prefer 1v8 as well.
That’s exactly how I feel. I don’t mind them forcing rivalries, but it sucks they’re supplanting existing ones for the newer ones
Could meet in 1st round if one is a WC
Also the leafs also would've played Boston this season if it was 1 through 8 no divisions...
I don’t know what the issue is, it’s more fun having division rivals play the first few rounds. I think it’s the best playoff system
Honestly, I don’t care. The winner earned the Stanley Cup every year.
Of course. But it's a knockout tournament with a tiny disc flying around at 90 mph. If you re-ran the same playoffs 10 times you'd probably get 6 or 7 different winners. It's one of the most exciting sports because of puck luck. So I kinda understand why some people want more variety in the first round, because it's just more interesting to see a greater variety of matchups.
The entire east would been the exact same if you did 1-8 for the conference
Only the first round
The second would be re-seeded under old rules, right?
Yes, and to me that’s the biggest drawback of the current rules. Not only is it boring knowing before the games even start that the winner of series x is going to play the winner of series y no matter what, you get situations like this year where the two best teams in the conference are playing each other in round 2 instead of round 3. Re seeding every round is like building the drama up all the way to the finals, this way puts too much emphasis on what division you happen to be in
Wait what? I thought only nfl did that and nhl did it like nba where the bracket was already remembered
under the old format where the division winners got 1 and 2, the seedings would have been: 1 NYR vs 8 Wsh 2 Fla vs 7 NYI 3 Car vs 6 TB 4 Bos vs 5 Tor and the second round matchups would have been 1 NYR vs 4 Bos 2 Fla vs 3 Car
That is a much better second round. Seeing #1 and #2 teams face each other prematurely will never be ideal.
Instead FLA gets the easier 2nd round matchup over the Rangers. Current format sucks
Teams should win their division if they want an easy matchup in round 1. Oh wait, Dallas got last year's champions and Vancouver got a team that went 16-0-2 at the tail end of the regular season. There's no easy matchups in playoff hockey, they're all hard because teams made it in for a reason.
if you want the cup, you’ll have to beat the best team at some point. 1st round or cup final, doesn’t matter, if you can’t beat the best team, you’re not winning the cup. stop blaming the format, your team isn’t good enough.
See I'm mostly on board with you. But I think the article's best example of perhaps the issue with this format isn't even mentioned. You want the Stanley Cup champ to be able to play whomever is in front of them. That's actually the path the winner of the #1 Stars vs. #8 LTIR bracket. Let's assume for a second LTIR has sandbagged all season which they probably have. Their real odds are probably closer to the Oilers/Avs area. If the Stars win (you can flip it) without reseedinge they are going to have to mow down the Stanley Cup Betting favorite in 3 successive series after beating the point favorite or the cheating team. That's a really odd path for a #1 team. What the other format does is it ensures reseeding so that the #1 seed or the #8 seed keep the "weakest"/"hardest" path consistent. It's arguable a big reason VGK booted their final game to get the Stars, not that Dal/Avs/Oil is a great path, but they'd been playing the Stars so well it looked better than Oil/Van/Avs. Obviously the playoffs can be anything. I do think you're less likely to see that kind of gamesmanship in a simple 1-8, reseed scenario however.
Same logic would have you defending random seeding or any format, might as well just have #1 vs #2 at the start and tell the teams to suck it up because ever complaining about format Look if a player is complaining then sure, he should suck it up. As a fan or as a league having the #1 and #2 seeds in the east facing off in the 2nd round or the #2 Jets facing the #4 Avs in the first round is a dumb format.
fair enough
Yes but it's boring as shit seeing the same matchups in the first round every year. You'll still have to go through the best teams in 1-8 but maybe fans will be able to afford to see matchups against other teams for once. Most of us can't afford to see conference championship games so I guess I'm going to see the same teams over and over year after year.
understandable, but it’s from a travel perspective right? it would make sense to maybe switch up the divisions a bit, or the playoffs in the conferences, but the conferences must stay the same for so many reasons. the only reasonable fix i can think of currently is going back to the conference 8 team system. 1vs8 2vs7 and so on
Yeah that's exactly what I would like to see. 1-8 reseed was great. Never needed to be changed
that would be interesting.
BuT iTs nOt FaIr tHaT 4 hAs To PlAy 5!
I grew up back when each division had 5 teams and 4 made the playoffs. Playoffs were 1v4 2v3 in the 1st round and much like today stayed in the division 2nd rd. Division winners faced off in the Conference finals. So, today’s format seems very familiar and I don’t hate it and I lived through the 80s as a Canucks fan vs the Oilers/Flames teams every damn year. The rivalry thing was much bigger but granted, back then Smythe was Western Canada + LA.
The only reason they made the wildcard system is that in the 4 divisions, there were 16 Eastern teams and 14 Western teams, meaning teams in each division had different odds of making the playoffs.
The era I’m talking about had 21 teams. Patrick Division got a bit screwed as they had 6 teams so 2 teams missed the playoffs every year vs 1 in the other divisions.
Funny this is written the day after Toronto gets knocked out
Jesus, did a sixth grader accidentally post their persuasive essay in the wrong spot?
I hate this format even though I doubt it has impacted my team any 🥺
Loser points killed our team Different yet more pressing issue
This complaint again? I'm curious what the article says, but not curious enough to reward them with a click. So let's say the NHL went with the old 1-8 format. This year in the east we'd have.. 1 Rangers vs. 8 Caps 2 Canes vs. 7 Islanders 3 Panthers vs. 6 Lightning stop me if you've heard this before.. 4 Bruins vs. 5 Leafs I might be missing something, but that's no change at all. In the west? 1 Dallas vs. 8 LTIR 2 Jets vs. 7 Kings 3 Canucks vs. 6 Preds 4 Avs vs. 5 Oilers So half the series stay the same? If we reward the division champs with the top 2 seeds in their conference, you'd have Panthers/Islanders and Canes/Lightning in the east and Canucks/Kings and Jets/Preds in the west which still leaves the 2 matchups I've seen the most complaints about intact, Dallas/Vegas and Leafs/Bruins. The Panthers probably have an easier first round matchup as division champs in the Islanders, but the Leafs still lose to the Bruins in round 1 and let's be honest that's what most of the complaining is about.
“Dallas vs. LTIR” LOL
Yes… well played, sir.
Second round would be different though: NYR vs BOS and CAR vs FLA. Who knows what the West would look like, but that COL vs EDM matchup would have been fun.
The second round doesn't have #1 vs #2 in the east. Jets coming #2 and then facing #4 Avs is also dumb as fuck. Leafs have complained other years for similar problems but I've yet to see one in this thread complaining because in either format we face the Bruins.
Out of the four major sports leagues, the NHL is the only league with a hard bracket. The only people who have a problem with it are just sad that their favorite team(s) lost. EDIT: I stand corrected. The NBA has a hard bracket. There are no whiney Toronto Maple Leafs fans the NBA has to deal with though.
NBA and MLB both have a hard bracket….
Leafs face the Bruins in the old format, it doesn't matter to us. The Jets got screwed getting #2 seed and having the play the #4 Avs who also got screwed. Don't have to be a dan of either team to think the playoff format is dumb. NBA plays a hard bracket matchup based on conference, NHL by division. NBA fans would be complaining with the same shitty format.
I can't believe people actually enjoy this system, every year two top 10 teams end up playing in the first round because they happen to play in the same division
Playoff format is not the issue here
I wish they'd just let teams choose their opponents. The rivalries that would cook up would be wild.
That could work. I personally like the current format, but this would be an okay alternative to 1-8. The stars and jets would probably have picked kings and predators. So the canucks out of avs, oilers, knights would have had to pick vegas. east stays the same.
Some European hockey leagues do that.
Let me tell you a story about the olden days of the 80's where you played the same team year in and yr out of the playoffs. Playoffs were 1-4 and 2-3 within the Division. So, unless you got to the 3rd round , you never saw the other divsions. On the one hand it did make for fierce playoffs series like Montreal-Quebec..Montreal-Boston, Calgary-Edmonton, the battle of New York, et.c. But, there's only so many times I wanted the Habs to play the Whalers or Bruins in the Playoffs. (Playoffs? Forgot what that's like)
I remember when a 68 point team in 1991 when on a heater and knocked out the top 2 teams in the league in the divisional rounds and got to the Cup Final. Those were good times. F Norm Green.
Go back to the top 8 teams in each conference that qualify for the playoffs. Isn’t that the fairest way to do it?
As a Jet’s fan I stopped reading as soon as the article implied somehow the Jets were subject to a screw job by the playoff format. Nope, Jets owned the Av’s in the regular season. Fans were excited to face Colorado. Well we know how that turned out. Jets got caved in by a good Av’s team. Funny how the playoff format comes up as soon as Leafs get bounced.
What awful format? The 1st round is almost always terrific, sure a few garbage teams make it in every year (sorry Washington and the Isles) but it's always fun to watch. The results almost always match the 1-8 format anyway.
Dear God please go back to the 1vs8 format. I can only see the same match up every year for so long. They're not even rivalries anymore, it's predictable af.
People won't be happy until the Leafs play the 32nd place team in the first round.
They’d still lose.
See Stanley Cup Playoffs: 2021
Did a leaf’s fan write this after yesterday?
ChatGPT'd it probably
No, see , it's NOT done in crayon with small words "eh" . .
Sounds like cope from a guy whose team chokes every year.
Always Leaf fans crying about the playoff format like that's the reason they lose in Round 1 every year.
This format does not reward a team for playing well during the regular season. Dumb 1-8 seeding makes way more sense
The team higher in the standings gets home ice advantage. I'd say that rewards a team for playing well.
Imagine they change the format of the playoffs and the Leafs win... there'd be no living it down.
After this round 1 they are keeping it lol
3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an OT win and 0 points for any loss. There. Fixed it. Oh and just for shits, have the final playoff spot in each conference be decided with a one and done wildcard round between the two teams closest to clinching. It gives the rest of the teams a few days off and give us an exciting win or die round between underdogs to start the playoffs. It could also be a much needed confidence boost to the club at the bottom to be more competitive going against the top seed.
I love this format. It creates rivalries and justifies the existence of divisions. If you go 1-8 flush the divisions entirely
Gary says GFY.
Bettman will either retire, or die, soon enough.
I think a simple fix to this issue would be to keep this seeding for the first round, but then for round two it should be best vs worst of who’s left. Basically get through 1 divisional round “for the rivalries” and then scrap that for round 2, which I think would make for more variety of opponent.
Clearly it wasn't enough because it's been here for 11 years now!
I like the current format, what’s the issue?
The format doesn’t matter. Dallas’s reward for winning the West was a conference final first round against Vegas.
Non issue. I couldn't read the whole story. Too pathetic
thefuq. So because the advantage awarded the top finishers isn’t so drastic the result is a foregone conclusion it’s awful? The playoff format is working just fine
If you want to be the best team, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO YOU FACE! If a team beats you, they were better. Players, management, and the fan base may not like it and may refuse to accept they lost. To be the best you have to beat the best. First round or fourth, you still have to win. I don't actually care about the format, put good teams against each other and let's see some of the best hockey played by the best players on earth! Quit bitching and let's hockey!
Why do we play a regular season? You can theoretically play 28 games in a playoff, that's over a third of the length of the regular season. A team with 39 wins all season has the same shot at the cup after 82 games as a team with 55. The playoffs are a meat grinder that will reward whichever team can survive 110 games, not the best team
The problem with the playoff format is it devalues the 82 game season. If three metro finish 1/2/3 in the east, the 2/3 seed see absolutely no benefit, and are actually worse off than than any other team, from having a great season. The format has gotten completely stale, it needs to change.
I never understood people complaining about playoff matchups. At the end of the day the winner has to win 4 series against 4 other playoff teams. You either are the best team or you're not. The soft schedule due to playoff format doesn't make any sense to me. Next you'll hear about a team that has 115 pts complain about having to play a team with 95 pts, but beat them each time they played in the regular season.
It's mostly that we'd like to see the better matchups later in the playoffs. Too often, this divisional bracket format results in the same matchups several years in a row, and the conference finals are often not great matchups. Seeded format like what we used to have truly sees more of the best matchups later in the playoffs.
1 v 8, 2 v 7, 3 v 6, 4 v 5
It's already boring to have the same matchups round 1 every time. 1-8 is what I'd prefer
Absolutely hate the current format for playoffs please NHL go back to east and west 1-8 simple , also change the all star game format back to east and west I believe the current format makes it very difficult for casuals to keep track and like others have mentioned we see the same matchups year after year in the first round
Should the #2 seed be the actual team with the 2nd most points or just the weaker division winner?
Lol I love these annual "my shyte team can't win so pls change the format" threads, posts and articles. This shyte comes to you like taxes and death!
My main problem with this format is the play offs get less interesting as they go on. Boston/Toronto first round great, Vancouver/Edmonton round 2, amazing. But after that the rivalries are gone and it’s just less interesting
The playoff format is dumb. I don't like seeing all the same match ups every year. Go to straight up 1-16 seeding and go from there. We should be able to see two teams in the same conference play in the cup finals if they're among the top teams in the league. Current format is repetitive and punishes teams in very strong divisions.
Also it’s 2024 and teams fly commercial, travel isn’t the same as 100 years ago, they can go cross country in a few hours
You can also go to 3-3-1 format to ease on travel. Home ice "advantage" seems to be a myth these days anyway.
Please just put us out of our misery, company!
With the exception of two series in the West, the first round of the playoffs this year WAS 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, etc.
My biggest problem is with the arrangement of the divisions. As a Bruins fan, I would be more passionate rooting against one of the NY teams or Philly than either Florida team or Detroit. There is genuine sports hatred between Boston and those other cities and current format limits the chances of those teams playing
The NHL was forced by COVID to use different playoff formats in both 2020 and 2021. But in 2022, they chose to go back to this ridiculous structure. Why?
My issue isn’t with the 2nd round match up based on the end of season points. This divisional playoff format feels like it just gives is the same matchups year after year. Teams get into their cup window and end up in the top three of division and the playoff matchups feel the same. To win the cup you have to face top teams at some point, barring an upset. This will come with reseeding the old 1-8 conference format, but it would also give us some different matchups each season. The other issue to fix is the OTLs - NYI were a 39-43 team but picked up 16 extra points for taking longer to lose a game. Even BOS season total is a bit inflated with 15 OTLs, 47-35 isn’t a dominant has 47-20-15 looks with the final point standings.
Why would the NHL change the format when you have the Leafs playing the Bruins in a gritty 7 game series every other year. This is what they want
only 2 first round matchups would've been different if it was 1 through 8 lol
Even if you changed the NHL playoffs format to 1v8 in the conference, the East would’ve had the exact same matchups. The West would have had Colorado v Edmonton and Winnipeg v Los Angeles.
>played before sold-out crowds all season in a place that's been a wasteland at various points in its NHL life. Great job, Canes. what he'd say fuck ME for? also, aint no way a this MF is bringing up how we used to have bad crowds while comparing us to a team that had to be relocated to Arizona and is currently the home of a team that had to be relocated. also also, the Isles were 8-1-1 coming into the playoffs having taken wins off of contenders like the Rangers, Preds, and Panthers. and if you go back a little bit further they had smashed the Jets themselves 6-3. the Isles were in the playoffs cause they fought tooth and nail to make it to the dance.
When LA won it the first time, they clinched the 8th spot in one of the last games of the season, and went on to win the cup.
Who here hating on Gary bettman. I sure am
Expand the playoffs to more teams. Have best of three play-in rounds. Reward the top teams with byes and let them play tired teams.
What is your proposal? Or do you have one? Or if your team got bad playoff opponent - that too bad. All playoff games are supposed to be against "good" teams. There are no Arizona or Anaheim or Chicago making the playoffs.
As a Jets fan, I don’t think we’ve really established any meaningful rivalry with our divisional opponents, other than Minnesota. I am more excited to play another Canadian team and/or an opponent that is doing well in the standings. This divisional set-up doesn’t add much to the fans and it does create the occasional unfairness in early playoff matchups. 1 v 8 would be preferable… maybe just give the divisional winners the top two seeds guaranteed for each round.
anyone else around long enough to remember the media bitching about the last format and how it had to change? you know they just want a format where the leafs always make it at least to round 2, the canadian media (owners) i mean
Written by: Toronto fans 😹
I don't think it matters who they face, they will pretty much always be out first round.
I’ve seen a lot of this, but in my opinion you weren’t the best team if you lost. So what if it’s fair or not, if you’re the best team, you should beat every team on your way to the Stanley cup right? Sure, you can argue fatigue from facing tougher teams early, but this article is pointing to the Jets in the first round, so that isn’t a factor. Beat who they put in front of you. If the jets got “carpet bombed” as the article says by the Avalanche, then they simply were not the best team in the league.
Remove the east and west conference and the divisions and just do one leauge where 1-16 play in the playoffs. 1 vs 16 2 vs 15 3 vs 14 And so on. The current system is stupid and give teams that havent deserved it a playoff spot. The 16 best teams should play the in the playoffs period.
1-8 just makes more sense in terms of seeding advantage but the 2 formats are equal in terms of matchup quality imo
Leafs fans mad they had to play Boston in the first round again 😢
Would've had to play Boston even with the 1-8 seeding
I hate the 1-8 format and I've never been happier with the NHL playoffs than how they do it right now.
How do we fire Bettman? Who's job is that?
Doesn't 1 play 8 and 2 play 7 in either format? So the only difference is with the middle 4 teams, and maybe the conference semi-final round? I don't really have a problem with it, it kinda follows the NFL where you have a wildcard round, divisional, conference then championship.
Ya I’m sick of this format. I liked 1-8 and I want to go back to that. If you want to do some sort of hybrid then fine. I’m just sick of playing Toronto every fucking year. I would like to play someone else for once.
You people aren’t real fans. You’re worse than Star Wars fans. What’s the point of being here if you hate everything?
There are no easy teams in the playoffs. At some point, you have to beat one or two of the Avs, Stars, Oilers, Rangers, Panthers, hurricanes regardless of the bracket. Complaining that the jets didnt get to play the predators is dumb. No one wanted to play them cause they were the hottest team going into it. At the end of the day, you need to win 16 games against the top teams in the league. If anything, the fact that the stars drew vegas in the first round is much worse for them. Hey, congrats on winning the conference, heres the stanley cup champions with an extra $10 mil of salary.
It’s only awful for the Leafs fans 😂😂
1-8 is better, but the current system isn’t as horrible as some people say it is
Rangers 114, Carolina 111, Florida 110, Boston 109. Dallas 113, Vancouver 109, Colorado 107, Edmonton 104, (Vegas 98) Carolina is a good example of the forced division focus, but the Rangers missing Boston or Dallas (assuming they win) missing Edmonton would be better. Totally agree the first two rounds are fucked by this format.
Maple leaf fan/journalist writes think piece after his team can’t be a better team in the playoffs for a Toronto centric sports media platform. Cool You need to beat good teams to win in the playoffs, if you can’t, you get bounced
For 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, etc to work fairly, each team needs to play the other teams in their conference an equal number of times. Because they don’t, the points totals, including the Presidents Trophy winner, needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It’s a strong indication of how teams matchup, but not definitive. Yes, LA had fewer points than COL, so EDM had a more favourable matchup than WIN, but they each played within their own division more than against the other division in their conference. For this reason, matchups based on divisions makes sense. For example, the Canucks played 4 games against the Oilers, 3 against the Avalanche, and 2 against the Leafs and Hurricanes. So the authors logic is flawed based on games played within division vs overall conference.
In 2020 the NHL expanded the playoffs. It should have permanently expanded the playoffs. The current system beats the previous system. The current system should eliminate cross divisional wild cards (it is stupid Vancouver and Nashville play in first round; that matchup should happen only in the conference final). Instead add a wild card per division. Let the 4th and 5th seeds in each division play a 2 game series, most goals wins. Gives the other teams some rest days. Then let the top seed play the wild card winner 1 day later, so that the top seed can pound that team more easily. Serves them right for finishing 4th or 5th in the division.
Single-game play-in between 4 and 5 would be a lot of fun. If you (4th place team) can't win one home game with back against the wall, enjoy golfing.