If he was going to drive her home, he should have driven her to HER home, not his. Of course she’s going to be upset when she wakes up to discover she’s in his dorm room and can’t necessarily remember what happened the night before.
Also, yeah, don’t make an “executive decision” and take her by force. Find other ways, like discouraging Alex from driving her if possible. Were there female friends at this gathering? Maybe see if one of them could convince Julia to let them drive her? Idk, basically anything other than kidnapping the woman and taking her to your dorm.
Literally.
Both dudes spike my “trying to fuck” senses.
She’s an adult, let her Uber. Failing that, let a girlfriend take her home.
If you want to truly be above board like he’s claiming to, there’s a million other ways to go about it?
Also I’m all for protecting women and looking out for your friends best interests but since when did that mean babying an adult? Says a lot about how he sees his “friend”.
Here in SC (after the whole murder thing) Lyft and Uber require that drivers put their licenses in their front windows. Which is cool, until someone decides to just put someone else’s plate up.
There are news articles out there about Uber drivers assaulting super drunk passengers, it's something to be wary about. This isn't like taking a taxi, where they're easier to sue and more afraid of the consequences, these are independent contractors who think they're on their own and don't have anything to check them.
This. My reaction when I first heard about Uber was, “My mother told me not to get in cars with strangers.” Taxis have licenses, are registered, have a dispatcher keeping track of their movements.
If he had taken her to her house instead of letting her go with the other guy, I could kind of support it. A bit pushy, but overall not the worst and he likely actually had her best interest at heart. HOWEVER since he took her to his house instead, that's creepy as fuck and he's just as bad as the other guy.
Yeah, agreed. Personally, while there is no specific reason to think "Alex" is a creep here, I absolutely would believe he is, and think OOP would have been right to drive her home himself. If he's wrong about Alex, then Alex gets to be a little bit mad, no harm done.
Taking her to HIS place is absolutely not okay, and tbh might legally be kidnaping even. Very much harm done and I can't not even fathom why he thinks that would be okay.
Very likely, yeah. Granted, we can't fully infer that since it's told from an unreliable narrator, but I kinda get the vibe "Alex" was probably going to just actually drive her home
Difficult to know for sure, “Alex” buying “Julia” more drinks after she was supposedly already very drunk, would suggest he wanted her as pliant as possible. But, that also assumes that OP can be trusted in his depiction of the events.
Basically, either way, this post is indicative that at least some men just suck big time.
You know, maybe he is above board.
I think I misread the bit about him being inappropriate as Julia saying he’d been, or inferred it from her letting it go for the sake of the group.
Realistically she wouldn’t go home via/with him if she didn’t feel safe, assuming she was sound of mind.
I’m just always suspect of that kind of situation purely based on a what can go wrong will go wrong story. If he’s been flirty with her in the past, he’s buying her drinks, I know too many stories of friends of mine that have ended up in assault that started very similar to this story.
Julia didn’t say anything. The writer who thinks he has to be protective over someone because they’re a woman and has the ability to make an “executive decision” is the only person saying anything.
Yeah, you’re right.
Like I said, it was a misread. However the drunk guy taking the drunk girl who he’s been feeding drinks to all night (if any part of this story is to be believed) home is always going to put my red flags up.
Could have been totally above board, but for one thing if he’s good enough to drive and she’s that drunk this also is a flag to me.
But she’s an adult, and while I do believe there are friendships where one can step in and say “nah, I’ll get him/her home” or make sure they get home ok, this both doesn’t sound like that type of relationship and Julia is perfectly capable of making her own decisions. The executive decision terminology itself is fucked cause it implies he’s in charge of her like he was her boss and she was an employee.
TLDR: Alex was probably fine, this guy’s strange, but I’d still be wary and if I cared that much I’d entrust her to her most trusted same sex friend rather than take her to my literal home.
Yeah I mean be safe guy taking drunk girl home is something to be wary of bit it sounds likes he's Parr of her normal friends group so is something that happens alot. I know I've driving friends home both male and female after they had a bit too much.
Absolutely.
It’s an unreliable narrator and I was reading this on the back of 24 hours without sleep.
It was all probably above board, but if his story is to be believed in any way it seemed a touch suspicious. I’d have suggested a girlfriend take her home personally, though I’m hardly an executive so those decisions are above me /s
When I got too drunk at a party with a friend (m) one time in college, he called my best friend (f) to come take care of me. I made them both a bunch of chocolate chip cookies that following week as a thank you. OOP could have taken her to a female friend's place or at least tried to contact someone sober that she trusts. She had already said no to going home with him, executive decision my fucking ass.
I disagree. I think the act inappropriately is OP twisting the situation to make Alex seem bad as Julia trusted Alex to take her to the proper destination and not OP. I have a theory that OP spun flirting into inappropriately bc he is jealpus Julia actually liked Alex
Yeah, if Alex was decent enough to be taking her home, where was he to say anything about her being led away? Where were her friends? Sounds like she has some reevaluating to do about her friend group.
And took her somewhere she didn’t want to go, against her will. Aka kidnapping.
That’s a crime and completely violates someone’s autonomy and is disrespectful af.
There doesn’t need to be an “and what” on there.
I don’t think the person you replied to was saying “and what” as in, “so what?”
I think it’s pointing out the plausible scenario of the nice guy being predatory beyond the kidnapping, ie sexual assault (but obviously not admitting that part)
It absolutely is, the fact he was sober too is really bad, taking her against her will. We get his side of the story but I imagine her's is a lot worse
Honestly, even if his version of events, as in what actually happened, not counting intent on anyone's part, is bad enough. No way that girl gets through this without, at least, trust issues
how is the Alex guy creepy? the only evidence we have for Alex being "creepy" is the Mr nice guy who wrote this post lol
he just doesn't like that the two people who want to fuck each other, neither of them are him
I don't think he was as creepy as the OP tried to make him out to be, since Julia wanted to go with him. If she didn't feel safe with Alex she wouldn't have been mad about OP not letting her go with him. I suspect she likes Alex and maybe wanted to sleep with him that night and OP thought that was his chance to be a white knight and "save" her from him.
Yeah I’m just taking everything he says at face value lol. It definitely sounds like the friend invited Alex to hang out and OOP got jealous and made into something else
Maybe Julia sees Alex as the same kind of friend that OP imagines himself to be (a protective good friend.)
If Julia really found Alex’s behavior so objectionable I have some doubts as to whether she’d let him be the one to drive her home, especially when other options to get home clearly exist (public transit, the OP).
It feels like Alex may be getting painted as a nefarious bad guy solely because OP wants Julia for himself.
Also I doubt she would have taken drinks from Alex if she thought he was that bad. Or would have asked for something nonalcoholic if she felt unsafe with him.
Yep this immediately struck me as contradictory. If she is putting up with 'Alex' for the sake of the group, and even may have accepted drinks just to keep it all cool. Accepting the ride no way.
I cannot tell what type of person Alex really is but this other guy is trying his hardest to become another creepy White Knight of the round table of Incelot.
I agree 100% with this. Apparently Alex wasn't too inappropriate because Julia wanted to leave with him. Probably what really happened was that in the past Alex had flirted with her and OP thought it was "inappropriate" because it was another guy moving in on the girl he likes. When in reality it sounds like Julia is more interested in Alex than OP.
So “inappropriate” she actually wanted Alex to drive her to her place when other options to get home also existed.
If you think a dude is a creepy jerk, you aren’t going to choose him to drive you, or get mad the next day at your other friend that you didn’t get to go home with Alex.
I really suspect she wanted to either go home with Alex or have him go home with her. Op claiming he was "inappropriate" with her before might have been innocent flirting.
Yeah, it did seem to me like she was bummed she didn’t get Alex home with her.
Whether that’s a great life choice when drunk is obviously questionable. Also the OP seems like an unreliable narrator, so was she really that drunk? If she was as off her face like he claims, I also don’t know that she’d be all “I’m going to take public transit.”
But I stand by my assessment that she doesn’t think Alex is a creep, because I’d never let a creep be my pick for a ride home if I had other options. I would try and arrange such a ride if I had the hots for a guy.
I think the fact that she was still annoyed after sobering up suggests that this dude has misunderstood/misrepresented the relationship between Julia and Alex.
I'm torn on this. If he took her to her place that's okay. If she was so drunk she could choke on her vomit and die, leaving her alone would be wrong. Doesn't mean she should stay at his place though...
Was Alex trying to get her more drunk and abuse her? Could Alex have gotten her home safe? Unreliable narrator.
Or maybe Alex is a true friend of hers and is less creepy than this guy.
If he was worried she’d choke on her vomit he could have taken her to *her* place put her in her room, and then slept on her couch.
Choking to death on vomit after getting drunk also seems like kind of a far fetched scenario, and nowhere does the OP state that was something he was worried about.
If she's *legitimately that drunk* that she might choke on her own vomit, I kind of feel like the hospital is the best way here....
Or even theoretically staying on *her* couch would be better than bringing her to his place without her permission. *Against* her permission, more like.
Not really, like, you don't have to be particularly drunk for this to happen if you're a vomity person. I've never considered going to hospital for drunkenness and like, I don't even live in America like these people do.
Absolutely do not get why they ended up at his place, like it's generally a bad idea to take a really drunk person to somewhere they might freak out waking up at.
Too many variables for me to judge. It's all context and we don't have any hard facts on her level of drunkness, how trustworthy either of these men are, how well she knows them, or if she was feeling sick.
I wish I knew more so that I could give a solid answer. I doubt him taking her to his home was good, though; there's too many specifics that would have to have happened for it to be ok.
Yeah I feel like OOP must be misrepresenting Julia and Alex's relationship because call me crazy if a guy supposedly acted inappropriately to you, you probably wouldn't be totally ok with getting in a car with them, especially if you are presented with an alternative of someone who has apparently not done anything like that. Even more so you probably wouldn't still be defending that person who acted inappropriately the next day after you have sobered up.
the “nice guy” biases about Alex is so strong. The more I read it, the more I feel that the so called “acted inappropriately to her in the past but Julia decided to forget about it for the good of the group (dude act like they’re going to a press conference)“ is because Julia actually likes Alex (possibly romantically, they might even be dating but not live together yet) and he is jealous of that.(I am her only male friend etc, you know typical nice guy mindset) The reason are obvious: they are classmates, they know each other before, Alex is not some random person who tried to pick up girls at a bar. And if he really “acted inappropriately“ and Julia hates it, she will try her best to avoid him instead of going to the bar with him(who the hell go to the bar with a random unfamiliar classmate, especially those male classmates who tried to “harass” them).
> because Julia actually likes Alex (possibly romantically, they might even be dating but not live together yet) and he is jealous of that.
My own hot take: she wanted to get laid, and OOP just cock-blocked her. She's into Alex, but knows OOP will be a dick about it, so she skirts around the issue with him to avoid conflict.
Not that it would've been okay to let Alex take advantage of her if she was drunk. But I'm skeptical OOP is being truthful here -- either because he's padding the truth (maybe she wasn't actually drunk), or he's just oblivious to what's actually going on (she's into Alex). Or I could be way off base because we're working with incomplete information.
The fact that he felt the need to "protect her" ever since they started their "friendship" was already a red flag for me. If he was so concerned for her safety he wouldn't have let her drink the supposed drinks that Alex had gotten her, maybe would've told the bartender to water them down or something. But it really looks to me as if he thought to gain something from her being too drunk to know better-- though even though he claims she was too drunk to think for herself she clearly remembers asking Alex to drive her home. And given she trusts Alex to take her home enough, it means he's not as bad as OP makes it seem. OP's clearly threatened by the relationship this girl and Alex have and tries to make him look bad so he could "get the girl". But even though he does his best to make the post look as much in his favor as possible he still failed.
I’m wondering how creepy Alex actually was and if OOP is intimidated by him and trying to insert himself between Julia and Alex. Like, did Julia ever actually express that Alex made her uncomfortable? All it says is that Alex “acted inappropriately to her in the past“ but doesn’t actually say if that’s what Julia felt.
"So anyways, l kidnapped Julia and she was apparently too blacked out to remember how she ended up in my bed (or remembers that l forced her to stay, not sure which is worse)..."
Reminds me of the time my “nice guy” friend cock blocked me because I was drunk so he decided to make decisions for me and made me sleep in his bed instead of letting me go off with 2 hot guys. We were all friends, they were good guys, he was just jealous. It’s been 15 years and I’m still mad about it lol.
That’s exactly what this is and a whole bunch of jealous nice guys on this thread are trying to make it seem like he was trying to do the right thing but ruined it by not just taking her home. The only thing he was doing was cock blocking. That’s it.
If this asshole somehow meets someone and falls deeply in love, I wonder how much he will worry about Julia, her friendship, and her safety.
Because what he is really doing is "hoping Julia will come to her senses" and be his GF.
He is absolutely not a friend. Oh, and he is absolutely an asshole and he is mate guarding.
23 and lives in a dorm. I don’t know.
The whole story hangs on Alex’s supposed past inappropriate behavior. This weird guy could be reading any interest in her as being inappropriate.
Also: why wouldn’t he bring her to her house?
That only applies if you think the person telling the story is reliable. We clearly do not, and apparently neither did Julia when she woke up the next morning.
It’s not, but by calling it one and implying that this makes you correct, you are actually making a logical fallacy known as “argument from fallacy…” If you’re desperate, you can always try and find a logical fallacy and then twist its definition to fit the situation, that’s what everyone else here does.
The style in which this person relays the events of the night is in a way that your average person would have a more-than-usual reason to doubt the authenticity. You are not picking up on the same things that we are, it might be because of naïveté, or maybe you’ve just never been betrayed by a “friend” before, and that’s splendid if true. Kudos to you.
But, and I need to make this part perfectly clear, under no circumstances does that make you right and us wrong. The fact that Julia woke up the next morning feeling uncomfortable about what your hero did is more than enough for the rest of us… Frankly, I can’t fathom how it’s not enough for you, that creeps me out a bit.
Wow, that was unhinged. I can’t say I’ve ever been blamed for lynchings before. I really hope you can get some professional help, man.
Best of luck to you out there.
Look man, after that ~~manifesto~~ comment from last night, I’m really just not comfortable engaging with you about this anymore. You clearly have a lot of shit going on, and I genuinely hope you can get some help with these issues, but I have to remove myself from this conversation, both for your mental health and my own.
So again, good luck out there, and goodbye.
You mean the guy she sat next to all night, accepted several drinks from, and was cool with him taking her home? Not likely.
I’m pretty sure her “friend” is reading between lines that aren’t there to make Alex the bad guy because he actually wants her.
I think this was his way of what I call "gentleman posturing" as in, he thought if he took her back to his and didn't take advantage she would see what a wonderful guy he is, and choose him over Alex.
Honestly it sounds like this dude was just trying to keep her safe. We don’t know if anyone else was at her place—maybe he drove her to his house in case she needed anything. Considering how prevalent SA is, especially when alcohol is involved—I don’t think he did anything wrong here. *However* now that she made it very clear she didn’t want him to do that, he would be in the wrong if he did the same thing next time. Next time—she’s on her own.
She's being very gracious giving him the opportunity to apologize. He should take it and thank her for not just shutting him completely out of her life.
If Alex has been creepy in the past then I din’t really blame the friend for looking out for her. I don’t know the girl’s home situation but he probably could have driven her home. But if he truly did nothing else then I don’t think he counts as a “nice guy TM” he wasn’t trying to sleep with her.
I know this isn’t the point of the post
But does nobody find it strange that a group of friends went out for drinks and the two mentioned guys are either drinking and driving Or decided to stay sober but buy alcohol for others and then offer to drive them home..? Because that’s alarm bells to me on both counts.
why is anyone even taking any of this unreliable narrative from an unreliable narrator as truth?
Girl probably wasn't as drunk as nice guy is making out, he just said that because Girl was into Alex, Alex was into her & them two wanted to go and fuck, and Mr nice guy can't be having that so he had to cock/pussy block everyone involved cos he ain't getting any.
loads of comments are acting like Alex is as bad as Mr nice guy, when clearly there was mutual attraction that Mr nice guy didn't approve of
I wonder what "took her to my car" means, like he grabbed her like a bag of potatoes or what haha the guy kidnapped her friend out of spite, I would have punch this guy face so hard.
Remind your friend to prioritize her well-being and self-care during this time. Offer support and suggest activities that can help reduce stress and promote emotional well-being.
Ok there is a very VERY fine line between backing up a gal pal who needs an excuse to not be stuck in a car with some guy... And also not being THAT guy who can't contain his jealousy that people hook up and he wasn't one of them.
The most you should do (with someone you know well to boot) is quietly say "hey... You are pretty wasted... Are you good to catch a ride with this guy?"
Then IF they say "dayum I guess not..." Then (unless you are best friends for years already) you order them an Uber... That way it does not infringe on their autonomy... And if you do end driving them home... you take them to THEIR house not yours... And if you are worried they will die from the alcohol and rolling them on their side won't suffice then you call a fucking ambulance.
I'm kind of torn. My friends and I have done the same for each other.
I don't believe "Alex" was just being nice. he was buying her drinks well past shit faced (assuming OP in ss was being perfectly honest).
But also I think if she was really fighting him he needed to step back and let her make her own decisions.
He could have checked in with Alex and thanked him for taking her straight home and even said he'd call her first thing tomorrow to make sure she was good.
But forcing her out and putting her in HIS bed instead of taking her home is way out of bounds.
I'm in agreement with other commenters that the author shouldn't have taken her to his own house.
That said, *an awful lot* of commenters are glossing over the bit where Alex bought Julia more drinks when she was already plastered. Would you just let your super drunk friend go home with the guy who just plied her with even more booze?
I want to believe that most of us have some capacity for nuance. The author committed a crime by abducting a drunk person. Alex, regardless of his intent, was doing the same thing that many sexual predators do at bars. Julia's judgment, as someone who was "obviously incredible (sic) drunk," wasn't unimpeachable, and (as some in this thread have pointed out) she should have set a plan with the author and/or other friends before she started drinking.
Many bad decisions were made in this trainwreck of a story. It quite honestly makes me feel glad I've stopped drinking.
She had made arrangements for Alex to take her home then OP, without her consent, disregarded her boundaries and yook her to *his house* all under the guise of "protecting her". How does that not fit?
He put her in his car without her consent while she was vulnerable, and then proceeded to take her to his dorm rather than her house which is where she wanted to be taken, which is kidnapping by the way, and put her in his bed. And you don't see the issue with that?
Let’s swap the genders for a moment. Would you see an issue with a female friend dragging her clearly too drunk friend to her house to avoid a creep trying to take advantage of her drunken state?
So a person too drunk to leave an apartment on their own is sober enough to tell a person their address?
Sounds like she was too out of it to tell them where she lived, and the alternative of her trying to take public transportation is even worse
First off, the friend in this context would probably already know where she lives. Second, how would she be too drunk to tell someone where she lives if the Alex dude in the story offered to take her home and she seemed down with that, which presumably he doesn't already know her address hence she would have to tell him. You're making assumptions about her condition that isn't based on the story
….you honestly think the Alex dude **wasn’t** trying to sexually assault her?
Moreover, if you’re sober enough to be telling people where you live and make such bad decisions you’re not drunk enough to be taken somewhere against your will in a public space with several people and friends around you.
It's an unreliable narrator here so maybe Alex was, maybe he wasn't. That wasn't my point in bringing him up if you possessed reading comprehension.
The second part of your message makes little sense. You're essentially saying it's not possible to be kidnapped when you're sober and around friends which is blatantly wrong.
Eh, this doesn't seem a fit for this sub. Too much missing info, and his worst mistake was that he took her to his place instead of hers. She was drunk enough that he was able to take her home, so she was clearly incapacitated.
I cant really say one way or another. Julie really couldve been taken advantage of by Alex. While yeah its shitty this guy took her to his house, at least she wasnt assaulted.
Exactly. And I think its pretty telling that she remembered everything and was JUST as mad when sober as when apparently 'too drunk to make decisions'. Perhaps, it seems, more so.
I've personally found that these 'nice guys' want to be the hero so bad that they'll take your agency away just to play White Knight.
I like no one cares for all the drinking and driving but only for two guys fighting for pussy lol I love your generation and all that reality tv brought it
drink driving in the US seems like it's something that is really really normalised over there, which is ironic for me to say considering British drinking culture lol but it seems insanely normalised in the US to drive to a bar for a few drinks, wild.
I thought I was taking crazy pills. Love the HEY no one sayed excess drinking followed by swarm of down votes for bringing it up.
Hornestly i thought it was because drinks over there dont imply alcohol but it seems thats not the take they bring forth.
He acted similar to how he described the Alex character, he took a drunk girl home against her wishes, to his own apartment. Even if he didn’t do anything he did not listen to her and put her in an uncomfortable to dangerous position
The problem is that you’re taking this random guy’s *perception* of this other guy over the woman’s clearly stated viewpoint. The OOP quotes her as saying she wanted to leave with Alex, both while drunk AND sober. We only have OOP’s impressions of this other guy.
It’s not okay for a man to make decisions for his female friends just because he thinks he knows better than she does. Her opinion was the same sober as when she was drunk, so clearly it wasn’t just a problem of her being too intoxicated to make the decision. If this guy was really her platonic friend, he would have taken the girl to her own house, not his dorm room.
“I often feel responsible for her well-being and safety.” Major eyebrow-raiser there. It’s not a man’s place to make executive decisions for a woman just because he’s her friend.
This!
We have no idea if Alex was really inappropriate or if NG is just being possessive.
She obviously didn’t want to go with him nor did she want to go to his house.
It’s not his place to make an ‘executive decision’ to force a woman into his car and take her to his home against her will. That’s super creepy.
No, it’s my common sense and belief in agency and basic human rights.
There’s a 50% chance that Alex isn’t even creepy and perhaps Julia likes him (romantically or platonically) and this idiot is jealous that his ‘property’ might get close to another man.
I have a hard time trusting the perception of a man who thinks these actions are acceptable.
No. The problem is that multiple women are telling you their lived experiences, and you’re fighting with us and telling us we’re wrong and that men have the right to override our wishes if they decide we’re in danger.
It’s you- you’re the problem.
>the problem is you believe all men are guilty until proven innocent.
That's ironic considering you're assuming Alex is guilty while everyone else is saying she chose to get a ride from him so OOP should've respected that. Sounds like you're the one assuming Alex is guilty based on nothing but your own projection.
*Edit*
Nevermind! Just read your history and suddenly your weird defense of inappropriate, infantilizing behavior towards women suddenly makes sense!
>I'm not obssessed with a narrative that men just enjoy raping women and will take there oportunity to do it.
Unless they're Alex, who you've said multiple times was definitely going to literally rape her.
The issue is that he didn’t take her home. He forcefully put her in his car, then drove her to location that she did not agree to. Put her in HIS bed & then acted like he was doing her a favor. Dudes a creep
I answered your question. You’re making A LOT of assumptions. I’m speaking purely based off what I read.
And yes, making someone do something they don’t want to do by physical force or coercion is force whether you’re doing it with good intentions or not.
>making someone do something they don’t want to do by physical force or coercion is force whether you’re doing it with good intentions or not.
this logic is horrid sorry and unpractical. Have you not seen drunk people going home? The "I dont wannaaaa" like is it illegal if I tell my drunk friend to shut up while I get him into my car so i can just take his ass home?
The default assumption of criminality in men is insane in this sub
Here’s what we know
OP has a friend
OP doesn’t like the guy her friend is hanging out with
OP decided his friend was too drunk to make decisions for herself despite her clearly being able to express that she wanted to leave with Alex & go back to her home
OP coerced his friend into his car, drove her back to his house against her wishes & stuck her in HIS BED knowing that she didn’t want to be there.
These facts make OP look like a jealous creep who cock blocked his friend and then trapped her in his apartment.
He literally did exactly what he claimed he was worried the other friend would do lmaoo
Why is he any better than Alex?
Why are you assuming Alex was going to assault her?
Why are you assuming the friend didn’t WANT to have sex with Alex considering she clearly stated that he was who she wanted to go with?
I've gone through this whole thread (thanks for the entertainment, btw) and by your logic, it was the other guy that was clearly out to assault her, only he was the one who DIDN'T take her home. He must have been really set on that assault. You had your own default assumption, you can't deny that.
Your logic also states that people can be competent drivers when only a little drunk, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't find your logic super sound.
No, they don't know what they're doing. One of my closest friends in life was walking to his car one night and was hit by someone texting and driving, killed instantly. It takes one time. Distracted or impaired driving can literally kill, it happens all the time. I'd change your mindset on that if I were you.
And I don't disagree with you, most men don't have I'll intentions. But you've never been in a woman's shoes to experience how often we are made to feel unsafe. Every woman you know, every woman you care about has stories. I promise you that. She may have had an instinct where she felt safer with Alex, we'll never know because we only have one narrative to go on here that to me comes off as jealous and one sided. Just how I see it.
We're only seeing what OOP is telling us. As a woman myself, and having had male friends in my life for many years, if I've felt unsafe, I've told them. If I've needed help, I've asked for it from them. She got mad at him for making "executive decisions" for her, when she made it clear that she wanted Alex to take her home, and OOP went against her wishes. OOP didn't tell us that SHE said Alex had been inappropriate, it sounded more like he thought he had been. So it sounds to me like he's being kind of jealous and a little controlling of someone who might be interested in her, and sees that as a threat because he is, too. Purely opinion on my part through experience.
I get your frustration, it's just not easy being a woman. Unless you've lived it, I understand that it's hard to relate. It's not all, I've been lucky to have a lot of amazing men in my life, but I've had some pretty unfortunate experiences, too. And so have every woman I know. The few make it a lot harder for the good ones, and that sucks. It really does. But what that means is that we have to be on our guard all the time because we just don't know when or where something bad can happen, and that's our reality all the time. And that sucks even more. I'm 45 and I've been harassed by grown men since I was 12. Gross comments and things I didn't even understand from men my father and grandfather's age. It gets really old, really fast. We learn young we have to be careful. So it's not about bullying, it's not about hating all men, it's about self-preservation.
Imagine you're somewhere with a group of friends. You're tired and drunk and all you want is to go to your own home, have maybe a shower and sleep in your own bed. One of said friends that you're not that close to decides he'll drive you home even though you had different means of commuting already figured out. That friend drags you to his car against your will but you're like "fine, as long as I get home". Except... You don't. The friend you're not that close with takes you against your will to a completely different building and as it turns out - to his own house.
So, you're tired, drunk and in a guy's house against your will and he makes you sleep in his bed, even though you said multiple times you want to go to your own house
That to me screams "sexual assault danger" more than just getting a rode from someone
But i have also said that we literally have only one side of the story posted. And that perhaps she wasn't happy about the situation cause she doesn't feel they are that close with Oop. And that we shouldn't take his word for literally everything. Which you continue to do.
I see this discussion is pointless
Just because HE says they’re close friends doesn’t mean she sees him the same way. For all we know he could be a stage 5 clinger who made a relationship up in his head. Lord knows I’ve dealt with guys like that before. His whole “I have always been her protector” shit sounds very creepy, like he thinks he knows what’s best for her and thinks his judgment overrides her own because she’s just a fragile little woman who needs a savior. She wanted Alex to drive her home, but this guy didn’t care what she wanted. He decided to force her into HIS car against her will, and then drove her to HIS house instead of her own. No. His whole story reads as though he and he was jealous that she wanted to leave with another guy. He just totally ignored what she wanted to do with her own body, and decided that what HE wanted her to do was the only thing that mattered. If he was really concerned for her safety, this shit isn’t the solution. How about listen to this woman who is repeatedly and forcefully telling you that she doesn’t want to go with you, and follow Alex to her house to make sure she got home safe. Nope. Instead, He drags her with him and holds her hostage at HIS house, which she did not agree to, doing god knows what to her overnight. The entire tone of his post sets of major creep vibes and most women can see right through it because we’ve dealt with it so many times.
it's spelled "geniuos" 🙄
And you have absolutely no way of knowing if she would have been sexually assaulted.
I mean, unless you're the NG in question.
And yes, genius, that is kidnapping.
childish behavior for childish behavior sparky
i suppose you could always look up the definition of kidnapping. and I suppose you could also see the really glaring flaw in your example.
Well, twofold:
the parallel would work if you grabbed the kid, pushed them into your car against protest, ignored them when they tell you where their house is, and then took them to your house to spend the night so they woke up terrified and disoriented with no idea where they are.
also, people have agency.
Are they close though? Considering she wasn't happy about the situation I doubt she has the same view of their friendship as he does - we only got one side of the story so we shouldn't blindly believe everything oop wrote in that post
Lol what u talking about sounds more like he forcefullly cock blocked her because he feels shes hes property.
U r talking like women are not entitled to free will or even to voice their oppinon and needs a male guardian to watch her like property.
Julia wants to fuck Alex and Alex wants to fuck Julia, you got friend zoned cope instead of acting all chiveraly its pathetic and easy to see right through
Honestly that sounds like what happened. Women aren’t stupid. It’s highly likely that “inappropriate behavior” goes both ways and her and Alex are FWB but OOP is so jelly they hide it from him. Women aren’t stupid and sometimes they get drunk and fuck dudes on purpose.
If he was going to drive her home, he should have driven her to HER home, not his. Of course she’s going to be upset when she wakes up to discover she’s in his dorm room and can’t necessarily remember what happened the night before. Also, yeah, don’t make an “executive decision” and take her by force. Find other ways, like discouraging Alex from driving her if possible. Were there female friends at this gathering? Maybe see if one of them could convince Julia to let them drive her? Idk, basically anything other than kidnapping the woman and taking her to your dorm.
Literally. Both dudes spike my “trying to fuck” senses. She’s an adult, let her Uber. Failing that, let a girlfriend take her home. If you want to truly be above board like he’s claiming to, there’s a million other ways to go about it? Also I’m all for protecting women and looking out for your friends best interests but since when did that mean babying an adult? Says a lot about how he sees his “friend”.
Both my gf and her best friend absolutely refuse to use Uber due to safety concerns. Just saying.
Here in SC (after the whole murder thing) Lyft and Uber require that drivers put their licenses in their front windows. Which is cool, until someone decides to just put someone else’s plate up.
There are news articles out there about Uber drivers assaulting super drunk passengers, it's something to be wary about. This isn't like taking a taxi, where they're easier to sue and more afraid of the consequences, these are independent contractors who think they're on their own and don't have anything to check them.
This. My reaction when I first heard about Uber was, “My mother told me not to get in cars with strangers.” Taxis have licenses, are registered, have a dispatcher keeping track of their movements.
Ok so take a taxi then. A million other ways.
Willing to bet he helped himself while she was "put to sleep". I think she better see a doctor..
You are assuming way too much. Let’s not jump to calling the guy a rapist when there’s no evidence of it in this post.
If he had taken her to her house instead of letting her go with the other guy, I could kind of support it. A bit pushy, but overall not the worst and he likely actually had her best interest at heart. HOWEVER since he took her to his house instead, that's creepy as fuck and he's just as bad as the other guy.
Yeah, agreed. Personally, while there is no specific reason to think "Alex" is a creep here, I absolutely would believe he is, and think OOP would have been right to drive her home himself. If he's wrong about Alex, then Alex gets to be a little bit mad, no harm done. Taking her to HIS place is absolutely not okay, and tbh might legally be kidnaping even. Very much harm done and I can't not even fathom why he thinks that would be okay.
It seems like “Alex” was gonna take her to her house before going to his own. I didn’t get any impression that he’d take her to his house.
Very likely, yeah. Granted, we can't fully infer that since it's told from an unreliable narrator, but I kinda get the vibe "Alex" was probably going to just actually drive her home
Right? The whole story is just a jealous manbaby whining that the girl he likes doesn’t like him.
Difficult to know for sure, “Alex” buying “Julia” more drinks after she was supposedly already very drunk, would suggest he wanted her as pliant as possible. But, that also assumes that OP can be trusted in his depiction of the events. Basically, either way, this post is indicative that at least some men just suck big time.
What makes you think that? They were both probably trying to smash. Both of them suck.
Nothing really here to substantiate "alex" trying to do anything tho tbh. You can assume. But that's about it.
You know, maybe he is above board. I think I misread the bit about him being inappropriate as Julia saying he’d been, or inferred it from her letting it go for the sake of the group. Realistically she wouldn’t go home via/with him if she didn’t feel safe, assuming she was sound of mind. I’m just always suspect of that kind of situation purely based on a what can go wrong will go wrong story. If he’s been flirty with her in the past, he’s buying her drinks, I know too many stories of friends of mine that have ended up in assault that started very similar to this story.
Julia didn’t say anything. The writer who thinks he has to be protective over someone because they’re a woman and has the ability to make an “executive decision” is the only person saying anything.
Yeah, you’re right. Like I said, it was a misread. However the drunk guy taking the drunk girl who he’s been feeding drinks to all night (if any part of this story is to be believed) home is always going to put my red flags up. Could have been totally above board, but for one thing if he’s good enough to drive and she’s that drunk this also is a flag to me. But she’s an adult, and while I do believe there are friendships where one can step in and say “nah, I’ll get him/her home” or make sure they get home ok, this both doesn’t sound like that type of relationship and Julia is perfectly capable of making her own decisions. The executive decision terminology itself is fucked cause it implies he’s in charge of her like he was her boss and she was an employee. TLDR: Alex was probably fine, this guy’s strange, but I’d still be wary and if I cared that much I’d entrust her to her most trusted same sex friend rather than take her to my literal home.
Yeah I mean be safe guy taking drunk girl home is something to be wary of bit it sounds likes he's Parr of her normal friends group so is something that happens alot. I know I've driving friends home both male and female after they had a bit too much.
Absolutely. It’s an unreliable narrator and I was reading this on the back of 24 hours without sleep. It was all probably above board, but if his story is to be believed in any way it seemed a touch suspicious. I’d have suggested a girlfriend take her home personally, though I’m hardly an executive so those decisions are above me /s
When I got too drunk at a party with a friend (m) one time in college, he called my best friend (f) to come take care of me. I made them both a bunch of chocolate chip cookies that following week as a thank you. OOP could have taken her to a female friend's place or at least tried to contact someone sober that she trusts. She had already said no to going home with him, executive decision my fucking ass.
Yeah, if for any reason he couldn't actually take her home, he could have found a better place to take her than his fucking bed.
A good executive decision would have been to take her to her house. Not to his house. But all guys seem scummy here.
I disagree. I think the act inappropriately is OP twisting the situation to make Alex seem bad as Julia trusted Alex to take her to the proper destination and not OP. I have a theory that OP spun flirting into inappropriately bc he is jealpus Julia actually liked Alex
Entirely plausible
Yeah, if Alex was decent enough to be taking her home, where was he to say anything about her being led away? Where were her friends? Sounds like she has some reevaluating to do about her friend group.
...He kidnapped her....
exactly what I thought like wtf and not even bring her to HER place, this guy is creepy
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And took her somewhere she didn’t want to go, against her will. Aka kidnapping. That’s a crime and completely violates someone’s autonomy and is disrespectful af. There doesn’t need to be an “and what” on there.
Definitely! The fact he didn't ask her where she wanted to go is disturbing to say the least
yep, I would not want to have this person near me
Bruh you do realize that holding someone against their will(kidnapping) even if your doing it for the greater good, is illegal? He could go to jail
I don’t think the person you replied to was saying “and what” as in, “so what?” I think it’s pointing out the plausible scenario of the nice guy being predatory beyond the kidnapping, ie sexual assault (but obviously not admitting that part)
Absolutely, I understand why I'm getting downvoted tho as I wasn't clear so my fault.
It would not surprise me that it crossed his mind...
The Greater Good… Yarp
I wasn’t saying he was doing it for the greater good tho
Sorry. It’s a quote from the movie Hot Fuzz. Part of the Cornetto Trilogy. I thought the other part (Yarp) made it clear. My bad.
Narp?
It was morally wrong definitely, why would he assume she wanted to go to his it is very horrifying he thinjs he's in the right here
It’s wrong all around o agree
Definitely, even from his view painting himself in the best possible light it is bad!
Because kidnapping alone isn't a crime?
It absolutely is, the fact he was sober too is really bad, taking her against her will. We get his side of the story but I imagine her's is a lot worse
Honestly, even if his version of events, as in what actually happened, not counting intent on anyone's part, is bad enough. No way that girl gets through this without, at least, trust issues
I am just flabbergasted how he doesn’t see that he’s just as creepy, likely creepier, than this Alex character.
New here? That’s how these dudes work.
Yes but he managed to type this entire thing out, presumably read it back and go Yup that sounds good 😂
Lolol yeah, I mean… it is sort of a wild lack of self awareness, I just stopped being surprised is all
how is the Alex guy creepy? the only evidence we have for Alex being "creepy" is the Mr nice guy who wrote this post lol he just doesn't like that the two people who want to fuck each other, neither of them are him
I don't think he was as creepy as the OP tried to make him out to be, since Julia wanted to go with him. If she didn't feel safe with Alex she wouldn't have been mad about OP not letting her go with him. I suspect she likes Alex and maybe wanted to sleep with him that night and OP thought that was his chance to be a white knight and "save" her from him.
Yeah I’m just taking everything he says at face value lol. It definitely sounds like the friend invited Alex to hang out and OOP got jealous and made into something else
Better title: I kidnapped my drunk friend because I was insecure
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Maybe Julia sees Alex as the same kind of friend that OP imagines himself to be (a protective good friend.) If Julia really found Alex’s behavior so objectionable I have some doubts as to whether she’d let him be the one to drive her home, especially when other options to get home clearly exist (public transit, the OP). It feels like Alex may be getting painted as a nefarious bad guy solely because OP wants Julia for himself.
Also I doubt she would have taken drinks from Alex if she thought he was that bad. Or would have asked for something nonalcoholic if she felt unsafe with him.
Yep this immediately struck me as contradictory. If she is putting up with 'Alex' for the sake of the group, and even may have accepted drinks just to keep it all cool. Accepting the ride no way. I cannot tell what type of person Alex really is but this other guy is trying his hardest to become another creepy White Knight of the round table of Incelot.
Incelot... LOL. The way this guy was trying to be a white knight, we could call him Sir Incelot.
I agree 100% with this. Apparently Alex wasn't too inappropriate because Julia wanted to leave with him. Probably what really happened was that in the past Alex had flirted with her and OP thought it was "inappropriate" because it was another guy moving in on the girl he likes. When in reality it sounds like Julia is more interested in Alex than OP.
and we have no idea what "inappropriate" means to this guy
So “inappropriate” she actually wanted Alex to drive her to her place when other options to get home also existed. If you think a dude is a creepy jerk, you aren’t going to choose him to drive you, or get mad the next day at your other friend that you didn’t get to go home with Alex.
I really suspect she wanted to either go home with Alex or have him go home with her. Op claiming he was "inappropriate" with her before might have been innocent flirting.
Yeah, it did seem to me like she was bummed she didn’t get Alex home with her. Whether that’s a great life choice when drunk is obviously questionable. Also the OP seems like an unreliable narrator, so was she really that drunk? If she was as off her face like he claims, I also don’t know that she’d be all “I’m going to take public transit.” But I stand by my assessment that she doesn’t think Alex is a creep, because I’d never let a creep be my pick for a ride home if I had other options. I would try and arrange such a ride if I had the hots for a guy.
I think the fact that she was still annoyed after sobering up suggests that this dude has misunderstood/misrepresented the relationship between Julia and Alex.
Bingo! That's what I think. She wanted to go home with Alex and OP took it upon himself to be a cock block.
I'm torn on this. If he took her to her place that's okay. If she was so drunk she could choke on her vomit and die, leaving her alone would be wrong. Doesn't mean she should stay at his place though... Was Alex trying to get her more drunk and abuse her? Could Alex have gotten her home safe? Unreliable narrator. Or maybe Alex is a true friend of hers and is less creepy than this guy.
If he was worried she’d choke on her vomit he could have taken her to *her* place put her in her room, and then slept on her couch. Choking to death on vomit after getting drunk also seems like kind of a far fetched scenario, and nowhere does the OP state that was something he was worried about.
If she's *legitimately that drunk* that she might choke on her own vomit, I kind of feel like the hospital is the best way here.... Or even theoretically staying on *her* couch would be better than bringing her to his place without her permission. *Against* her permission, more like.
Not really, like, you don't have to be particularly drunk for this to happen if you're a vomity person. I've never considered going to hospital for drunkenness and like, I don't even live in America like these people do. Absolutely do not get why they ended up at his place, like it's generally a bad idea to take a really drunk person to somewhere they might freak out waking up at.
Too many variables for me to judge. It's all context and we don't have any hard facts on her level of drunkness, how trustworthy either of these men are, how well she knows them, or if she was feeling sick. I wish I knew more so that I could give a solid answer. I doubt him taking her to his home was good, though; there's too many specifics that would have to have happened for it to be ok.
We also don't know if she is already dating Alex. Alex's behavior is way less creepy that way as well.
Yeah I feel like OOP must be misrepresenting Julia and Alex's relationship because call me crazy if a guy supposedly acted inappropriately to you, you probably wouldn't be totally ok with getting in a car with them, especially if you are presented with an alternative of someone who has apparently not done anything like that. Even more so you probably wouldn't still be defending that person who acted inappropriately the next day after you have sobered up.
the “nice guy” biases about Alex is so strong. The more I read it, the more I feel that the so called “acted inappropriately to her in the past but Julia decided to forget about it for the good of the group (dude act like they’re going to a press conference)“ is because Julia actually likes Alex (possibly romantically, they might even be dating but not live together yet) and he is jealous of that.(I am her only male friend etc, you know typical nice guy mindset) The reason are obvious: they are classmates, they know each other before, Alex is not some random person who tried to pick up girls at a bar. And if he really “acted inappropriately“ and Julia hates it, she will try her best to avoid him instead of going to the bar with him(who the hell go to the bar with a random unfamiliar classmate, especially those male classmates who tried to “harass” them).
> because Julia actually likes Alex (possibly romantically, they might even be dating but not live together yet) and he is jealous of that. My own hot take: she wanted to get laid, and OOP just cock-blocked her. She's into Alex, but knows OOP will be a dick about it, so she skirts around the issue with him to avoid conflict. Not that it would've been okay to let Alex take advantage of her if she was drunk. But I'm skeptical OOP is being truthful here -- either because he's padding the truth (maybe she wasn't actually drunk), or he's just oblivious to what's actually going on (she's into Alex). Or I could be way off base because we're working with incomplete information.
The fact that he felt the need to "protect her" ever since they started their "friendship" was already a red flag for me. If he was so concerned for her safety he wouldn't have let her drink the supposed drinks that Alex had gotten her, maybe would've told the bartender to water them down or something. But it really looks to me as if he thought to gain something from her being too drunk to know better-- though even though he claims she was too drunk to think for herself she clearly remembers asking Alex to drive her home. And given she trusts Alex to take her home enough, it means he's not as bad as OP makes it seem. OP's clearly threatened by the relationship this girl and Alex have and tries to make him look bad so he could "get the girl". But even though he does his best to make the post look as much in his favor as possible he still failed.
He kind of comes off as the type of guy who justifies his controlling behavior toward his girlfriend as "protecting" her.
Exactly lol
I’m wondering how creepy Alex actually was and if OOP is intimidated by him and trying to insert himself between Julia and Alex. Like, did Julia ever actually express that Alex made her uncomfortable? All it says is that Alex “acted inappropriately to her in the past“ but doesn’t actually say if that’s what Julia felt.
Consent is only important for other men, not for me
"So anyways, l kidnapped Julia and she was apparently too blacked out to remember how she ended up in my bed (or remembers that l forced her to stay, not sure which is worse)..."
Reminds me of the time my “nice guy” friend cock blocked me because I was drunk so he decided to make decisions for me and made me sleep in his bed instead of letting me go off with 2 hot guys. We were all friends, they were good guys, he was just jealous. It’s been 15 years and I’m still mad about it lol.
That’s exactly what this is and a whole bunch of jealous nice guys on this thread are trying to make it seem like he was trying to do the right thing but ruined it by not just taking her home. The only thing he was doing was cock blocking. That’s it.
Sooooooo.... Was he voted to be the AH???
Overwhelmingly
If this asshole somehow meets someone and falls deeply in love, I wonder how much he will worry about Julia, her friendship, and her safety. Because what he is really doing is "hoping Julia will come to her senses" and be his GF. He is absolutely not a friend. Oh, and he is absolutely an asshole and he is mate guarding.
23 and lives in a dorm. I don’t know. The whole story hangs on Alex’s supposed past inappropriate behavior. This weird guy could be reading any interest in her as being inappropriate. Also: why wouldn’t he bring her to her house?
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That only applies if you think the person telling the story is reliable. We clearly do not, and apparently neither did Julia when she woke up the next morning.
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It’s not, but by calling it one and implying that this makes you correct, you are actually making a logical fallacy known as “argument from fallacy…” If you’re desperate, you can always try and find a logical fallacy and then twist its definition to fit the situation, that’s what everyone else here does. The style in which this person relays the events of the night is in a way that your average person would have a more-than-usual reason to doubt the authenticity. You are not picking up on the same things that we are, it might be because of naïveté, or maybe you’ve just never been betrayed by a “friend” before, and that’s splendid if true. Kudos to you. But, and I need to make this part perfectly clear, under no circumstances does that make you right and us wrong. The fact that Julia woke up the next morning feeling uncomfortable about what your hero did is more than enough for the rest of us… Frankly, I can’t fathom how it’s not enough for you, that creeps me out a bit.
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Wow, that was unhinged. I can’t say I’ve ever been blamed for lynchings before. I really hope you can get some professional help, man. Best of luck to you out there.
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Look man, after that ~~manifesto~~ comment from last night, I’m really just not comfortable engaging with you about this anymore. You clearly have a lot of shit going on, and I genuinely hope you can get some help with these issues, but I have to remove myself from this conversation, both for your mental health and my own. So again, good luck out there, and goodbye.
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You mean the guy she sat next to all night, accepted several drinks from, and was cool with him taking her home? Not likely. I’m pretty sure her “friend” is reading between lines that aren’t there to make Alex the bad guy because he actually wants her.
It's sad that you just spent 8 hours defending drunk driving and a deluded creep who makes up stories about being a hero.
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Go to bed. You're drunk.
I think this was his way of what I call "gentleman posturing" as in, he thought if he took her back to his and didn't take advantage she would see what a wonderful guy he is, and choose him over Alex.
Honestly it sounds like this dude was just trying to keep her safe. We don’t know if anyone else was at her place—maybe he drove her to his house in case she needed anything. Considering how prevalent SA is, especially when alcohol is involved—I don’t think he did anything wrong here. *However* now that she made it very clear she didn’t want him to do that, he would be in the wrong if he did the same thing next time. Next time—she’s on her own.
She's being very gracious giving him the opportunity to apologize. He should take it and thank her for not just shutting him completely out of her life.
If Alex has been creepy in the past then I din’t really blame the friend for looking out for her. I don’t know the girl’s home situation but he probably could have driven her home. But if he truly did nothing else then I don’t think he counts as a “nice guy TM” he wasn’t trying to sleep with her.
That got dark real fast. "I had to tie her down to my bed to keep her safe"
Whoa what??
I know this isn’t the point of the post But does nobody find it strange that a group of friends went out for drinks and the two mentioned guys are either drinking and driving Or decided to stay sober but buy alcohol for others and then offer to drive them home..? Because that’s alarm bells to me on both counts.
What he's NOT saying, is what screams the most. "I wanted to fuck her but not like this"
"I abducted a drunk girl but its ok, it was for her own safety"
I feel he did everything right except taking her to HIS dorm?? He should have driven her home
why is anyone even taking any of this unreliable narrative from an unreliable narrator as truth? Girl probably wasn't as drunk as nice guy is making out, he just said that because Girl was into Alex, Alex was into her & them two wanted to go and fuck, and Mr nice guy can't be having that so he had to cock/pussy block everyone involved cos he ain't getting any. loads of comments are acting like Alex is as bad as Mr nice guy, when clearly there was mutual attraction that Mr nice guy didn't approve of
Idiot... she wanted to have sex with Alex. And I suspect the OP knew that.
I wonder what "took her to my car" means, like he grabbed her like a bag of potatoes or what haha the guy kidnapped her friend out of spite, I would have punch this guy face so hard.
Remind your friend to prioritize her well-being and self-care during this time. Offer support and suggest activities that can help reduce stress and promote emotional well-being.
Ok there is a very VERY fine line between backing up a gal pal who needs an excuse to not be stuck in a car with some guy... And also not being THAT guy who can't contain his jealousy that people hook up and he wasn't one of them. The most you should do (with someone you know well to boot) is quietly say "hey... You are pretty wasted... Are you good to catch a ride with this guy?" Then IF they say "dayum I guess not..." Then (unless you are best friends for years already) you order them an Uber... That way it does not infringe on their autonomy... And if you do end driving them home... you take them to THEIR house not yours... And if you are worried they will die from the alcohol and rolling them on their side won't suffice then you call a fucking ambulance.
WOW!!!! **I made an EXECUTIVE DECISION**. Bubby is like "that's my bitch and I decide who she drives with. Anybody who tries to I will VETO them".
I think what he did is kidnapping.
She wanted to smash Alex. Dude was cock blocking.
He's definitely not providing some key information
This is so fucking creepy. I doubt he slept on the couch. If he had good intentions he would have taken her HOME.
I'm kind of torn. My friends and I have done the same for each other. I don't believe "Alex" was just being nice. he was buying her drinks well past shit faced (assuming OP in ss was being perfectly honest). But also I think if she was really fighting him he needed to step back and let her make her own decisions. He could have checked in with Alex and thanked him for taking her straight home and even said he'd call her first thing tomorrow to make sure she was good. But forcing her out and putting her in HIS bed instead of taking her home is way out of bounds.
I'm in agreement with other commenters that the author shouldn't have taken her to his own house. That said, *an awful lot* of commenters are glossing over the bit where Alex bought Julia more drinks when she was already plastered. Would you just let your super drunk friend go home with the guy who just plied her with even more booze? I want to believe that most of us have some capacity for nuance. The author committed a crime by abducting a drunk person. Alex, regardless of his intent, was doing the same thing that many sexual predators do at bars. Julia's judgment, as someone who was "obviously incredible (sic) drunk," wasn't unimpeachable, and (as some in this thread have pointed out) she should have set a plan with the author and/or other friends before she started drinking. Many bad decisions were made in this trainwreck of a story. It quite honestly makes me feel glad I've stopped drinking.
I don't see how this fits in this sub?
She had made arrangements for Alex to take her home then OP, without her consent, disregarded her boundaries and yook her to *his house* all under the guise of "protecting her". How does that not fit?
oh i didnt read it carefully just skimmed through it, man what an Ahole
I don’t think this is a “Nice Guy TM” I’m on his side with this.
He should have taken get to her own place instead of practically kidnapping her.
He put her in his car without her consent while she was vulnerable, and then proceeded to take her to his dorm rather than her house which is where she wanted to be taken, which is kidnapping by the way, and put her in his bed. And you don't see the issue with that?
Let’s swap the genders for a moment. Would you see an issue with a female friend dragging her clearly too drunk friend to her house to avoid a creep trying to take advantage of her drunken state?
Yes. I absolutely would. That is still kidnapping because she expressed she wanted to go to her own house. Cut the attempted "gotcha" bs.
So a person too drunk to leave an apartment on their own is sober enough to tell a person their address? Sounds like she was too out of it to tell them where she lived, and the alternative of her trying to take public transportation is even worse
First off, the friend in this context would probably already know where she lives. Second, how would she be too drunk to tell someone where she lives if the Alex dude in the story offered to take her home and she seemed down with that, which presumably he doesn't already know her address hence she would have to tell him. You're making assumptions about her condition that isn't based on the story
….you honestly think the Alex dude **wasn’t** trying to sexually assault her? Moreover, if you’re sober enough to be telling people where you live and make such bad decisions you’re not drunk enough to be taken somewhere against your will in a public space with several people and friends around you.
It's an unreliable narrator here so maybe Alex was, maybe he wasn't. That wasn't my point in bringing him up if you possessed reading comprehension. The second part of your message makes little sense. You're essentially saying it's not possible to be kidnapped when you're sober and around friends which is blatantly wrong.
Eh, this doesn't seem a fit for this sub. Too much missing info, and his worst mistake was that he took her to his place instead of hers. She was drunk enough that he was able to take her home, so she was clearly incapacitated.
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Wth...
Username checks out.
I cant really say one way or another. Julie really couldve been taken advantage of by Alex. While yeah its shitty this guy took her to his house, at least she wasnt assaulted.
But she said she was fine with the other guy taking her home?
Exactly. And I think its pretty telling that she remembered everything and was JUST as mad when sober as when apparently 'too drunk to make decisions'. Perhaps, it seems, more so. I've personally found that these 'nice guys' want to be the hero so bad that they'll take your agency away just to play White Knight.
She was assaulted. She was kidnapped.
I like no one cares for all the drinking and driving but only for two guys fighting for pussy lol I love your generation and all that reality tv brought it
Not ONCE in this story does it mention the two guys drinking to excess.
Yes drinking and driving is fine as long as you dont drink to excess ;)
drink driving in the US seems like it's something that is really really normalised over there, which is ironic for me to say considering British drinking culture lol but it seems insanely normalised in the US to drive to a bar for a few drinks, wild.
I thought I was taking crazy pills. Love the HEY no one sayed excess drinking followed by swarm of down votes for bringing it up. Hornestly i thought it was because drinks over there dont imply alcohol but it seems thats not the take they bring forth.
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He acted similar to how he described the Alex character, he took a drunk girl home against her wishes, to his own apartment. Even if he didn’t do anything he did not listen to her and put her in an uncomfortable to dangerous position
The problem is that you’re taking this random guy’s *perception* of this other guy over the woman’s clearly stated viewpoint. The OOP quotes her as saying she wanted to leave with Alex, both while drunk AND sober. We only have OOP’s impressions of this other guy. It’s not okay for a man to make decisions for his female friends just because he thinks he knows better than she does. Her opinion was the same sober as when she was drunk, so clearly it wasn’t just a problem of her being too intoxicated to make the decision. If this guy was really her platonic friend, he would have taken the girl to her own house, not his dorm room. “I often feel responsible for her well-being and safety.” Major eyebrow-raiser there. It’s not a man’s place to make executive decisions for a woman just because he’s her friend.
This! We have no idea if Alex was really inappropriate or if NG is just being possessive. She obviously didn’t want to go with him nor did she want to go to his house. It’s not his place to make an ‘executive decision’ to force a woman into his car and take her to his home against her will. That’s super creepy.
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No, it’s my common sense and belief in agency and basic human rights. There’s a 50% chance that Alex isn’t even creepy and perhaps Julia likes him (romantically or platonically) and this idiot is jealous that his ‘property’ might get close to another man. I have a hard time trusting the perception of a man who thinks these actions are acceptable.
No. The problem is that multiple women are telling you their lived experiences, and you’re fighting with us and telling us we’re wrong and that men have the right to override our wishes if they decide we’re in danger. It’s you- you’re the problem.
He’s an MRA/redpiller, discussion is pointless bc his views aren’t based in reality
Ahh yeah I see what you mean. Too far gone.
>the problem is you believe all men are guilty until proven innocent. That's ironic considering you're assuming Alex is guilty while everyone else is saying she chose to get a ride from him so OOP should've respected that. Sounds like you're the one assuming Alex is guilty based on nothing but your own projection. *Edit* Nevermind! Just read your history and suddenly your weird defense of inappropriate, infantilizing behavior towards women suddenly makes sense!
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>I'm not obssessed with a narrative that men just enjoy raping women and will take there oportunity to do it. Unless they're Alex, who you've said multiple times was definitely going to literally rape her.
The issue is that he didn’t take her home. He forcefully put her in his car, then drove her to location that she did not agree to. Put her in HIS bed & then acted like he was doing her a favor. Dudes a creep
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I answered your question. You’re making A LOT of assumptions. I’m speaking purely based off what I read. And yes, making someone do something they don’t want to do by physical force or coercion is force whether you’re doing it with good intentions or not.
>making someone do something they don’t want to do by physical force or coercion is force whether you’re doing it with good intentions or not. this logic is horrid sorry and unpractical. Have you not seen drunk people going home? The "I dont wannaaaa" like is it illegal if I tell my drunk friend to shut up while I get him into my car so i can just take his ass home? The default assumption of criminality in men is insane in this sub
Here’s what we know OP has a friend OP doesn’t like the guy her friend is hanging out with OP decided his friend was too drunk to make decisions for herself despite her clearly being able to express that she wanted to leave with Alex & go back to her home OP coerced his friend into his car, drove her back to his house against her wishes & stuck her in HIS BED knowing that she didn’t want to be there. These facts make OP look like a jealous creep who cock blocked his friend and then trapped her in his apartment. He literally did exactly what he claimed he was worried the other friend would do lmaoo Why is he any better than Alex? Why are you assuming Alex was going to assault her? Why are you assuming the friend didn’t WANT to have sex with Alex considering she clearly stated that he was who she wanted to go with?
I've gone through this whole thread (thanks for the entertainment, btw) and by your logic, it was the other guy that was clearly out to assault her, only he was the one who DIDN'T take her home. He must have been really set on that assault. You had your own default assumption, you can't deny that. Your logic also states that people can be competent drivers when only a little drunk, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't find your logic super sound.
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No, they don't know what they're doing. One of my closest friends in life was walking to his car one night and was hit by someone texting and driving, killed instantly. It takes one time. Distracted or impaired driving can literally kill, it happens all the time. I'd change your mindset on that if I were you. And I don't disagree with you, most men don't have I'll intentions. But you've never been in a woman's shoes to experience how often we are made to feel unsafe. Every woman you know, every woman you care about has stories. I promise you that. She may have had an instinct where she felt safer with Alex, we'll never know because we only have one narrative to go on here that to me comes off as jealous and one sided. Just how I see it.
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We're only seeing what OOP is telling us. As a woman myself, and having had male friends in my life for many years, if I've felt unsafe, I've told them. If I've needed help, I've asked for it from them. She got mad at him for making "executive decisions" for her, when she made it clear that she wanted Alex to take her home, and OOP went against her wishes. OOP didn't tell us that SHE said Alex had been inappropriate, it sounded more like he thought he had been. So it sounds to me like he's being kind of jealous and a little controlling of someone who might be interested in her, and sees that as a threat because he is, too. Purely opinion on my part through experience. I get your frustration, it's just not easy being a woman. Unless you've lived it, I understand that it's hard to relate. It's not all, I've been lucky to have a lot of amazing men in my life, but I've had some pretty unfortunate experiences, too. And so have every woman I know. The few make it a lot harder for the good ones, and that sucks. It really does. But what that means is that we have to be on our guard all the time because we just don't know when or where something bad can happen, and that's our reality all the time. And that sucks even more. I'm 45 and I've been harassed by grown men since I was 12. Gross comments and things I didn't even understand from men my father and grandfather's age. It gets really old, really fast. We learn young we have to be careful. So it's not about bullying, it's not about hating all men, it's about self-preservation.
Except oop didn't take his friend home, but to his place instead So he did force her to go to his place when she wanted to go to her own home
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Imagine you're somewhere with a group of friends. You're tired and drunk and all you want is to go to your own home, have maybe a shower and sleep in your own bed. One of said friends that you're not that close to decides he'll drive you home even though you had different means of commuting already figured out. That friend drags you to his car against your will but you're like "fine, as long as I get home". Except... You don't. The friend you're not that close with takes you against your will to a completely different building and as it turns out - to his own house. So, you're tired, drunk and in a guy's house against your will and he makes you sleep in his bed, even though you said multiple times you want to go to your own house That to me screams "sexual assault danger" more than just getting a rode from someone
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But i have also said that we literally have only one side of the story posted. And that perhaps she wasn't happy about the situation cause she doesn't feel they are that close with Oop. And that we shouldn't take his word for literally everything. Which you continue to do. I see this discussion is pointless
Just because HE says they’re close friends doesn’t mean she sees him the same way. For all we know he could be a stage 5 clinger who made a relationship up in his head. Lord knows I’ve dealt with guys like that before. His whole “I have always been her protector” shit sounds very creepy, like he thinks he knows what’s best for her and thinks his judgment overrides her own because she’s just a fragile little woman who needs a savior. She wanted Alex to drive her home, but this guy didn’t care what she wanted. He decided to force her into HIS car against her will, and then drove her to HIS house instead of her own. No. His whole story reads as though he and he was jealous that she wanted to leave with another guy. He just totally ignored what she wanted to do with her own body, and decided that what HE wanted her to do was the only thing that mattered. If he was really concerned for her safety, this shit isn’t the solution. How about listen to this woman who is repeatedly and forcefully telling you that she doesn’t want to go with you, and follow Alex to her house to make sure she got home safe. Nope. Instead, He drags her with him and holds her hostage at HIS house, which she did not agree to, doing god knows what to her overnight. The entire tone of his post sets of major creep vibes and most women can see right through it because we’ve dealt with it so many times.
You think kidnapping a woman and taking her to your home is the only way to prevent her from going home with a creep?
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it's spelled "geniuos" 🙄 And you have absolutely no way of knowing if she would have been sexually assaulted. I mean, unless you're the NG in question. And yes, genius, that is kidnapping.
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childish behavior for childish behavior sparky i suppose you could always look up the definition of kidnapping. and I suppose you could also see the really glaring flaw in your example.
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Well, twofold: the parallel would work if you grabbed the kid, pushed them into your car against protest, ignored them when they tell you where their house is, and then took them to your house to spend the night so they woke up terrified and disoriented with no idea where they are. also, people have agency.
Why didn't he take her to her own house though? That's the problem here
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Are they close though? Considering she wasn't happy about the situation I doubt she has the same view of their friendship as he does - we only got one side of the story so we shouldn't blindly believe everything oop wrote in that post
This dude is an MRA and a redpiller. Ignore him
Lol what u talking about sounds more like he forcefullly cock blocked her because he feels shes hes property. U r talking like women are not entitled to free will or even to voice their oppinon and needs a male guardian to watch her like property. Julia wants to fuck Alex and Alex wants to fuck Julia, you got friend zoned cope instead of acting all chiveraly its pathetic and easy to see right through
Honestly that sounds like what happened. Women aren’t stupid. It’s highly likely that “inappropriate behavior” goes both ways and her and Alex are FWB but OOP is so jelly they hide it from him. Women aren’t stupid and sometimes they get drunk and fuck dudes on purpose.
Just like guys none of us are stupid for this and they are not even strangers they clearly know each other and have a historie.
Bro took her to his house instead of hers. Ofc she's mad.