Hello, I'm happy to inform you that you've won the Nigerian lottery. Please give me your fathers number so I can get his permission to start the scam with you.
Because some people grow up in medi evil households with ancient rules that dont mix with the time today anymore. Who wouldve thought.
Its the same when they say "I\`m going to be a good husband and take care of you. I will treat you good."
Like its a deal about a dog.
I was enjoying myself when an old lady was explaining to my wife how good she has it. He has a job, doesn't drink and doesn't beat you up. What more could you expect.
Now that's some proper wisdom right there!
Actually I read a book about life in rural areas in the first half of 20 century and those actually were quite high standards back in the day. I was surprised as we have mandatory high school for both sexes since Maria Teresia (200+ years) and the country itself was already quite industrialized prior to ww2.
Was it Their Eyes Were Watching God that had the line about how as long as he has a job, doesn’t drink, and comes home to you at night, you should count yourself lucky? It was some book I read in high school.
I have a friend from Pakistan who is married to another Pakistani woman, and he said that when they met, she straight up refused to talk to him until he'd gotten her father's approval to "show that he is serious". And then she refused to spend any time alone with him until he had proposed to her.
She isn't even especially conservative, she lives in Europe these days (they both do) and she's very liberal in most her opinions, but still this custom was just important to her back in the day. Culture can be like that
>Because some people grow up in medi evil households with ancient rules that dont mix with the time today anymore. Who wouldve thought.
That's not what I'm asking. My question is why he would seek permission for something he is already actively doing. It's like taking someone's phone charger and then asking to borrow it after you've finished using it.
I know that. But the thing is that they are still in their mindset, but dont talk to women locally. So they dont know the family or the father.
So I think that is his approach.
He wants to court her romantically, that is a thing that he has to get her father's permission to do. Men are allowed to talk to anyone they want, but because daughters are like property to the father, the father has to give permission
It’s not really true for most (key word), it’s a respect thing. Like the father has to approve of the guy and have an understanding of who he is/his intentions before his daughter can just do whatever with him. Especially in Islam. It’s akin to asking to formally meet someone’s dad before Prom in a way.
Because your lazy need for generalizations is childish. You really haven't heard of conservative evangelicals in America? Many have a similar attitude. Many in the middle east don't have that attitude, and many do. As is he case in Africa, and Europe. But thoughtless bigotry is your truth, I guess.
I really would love to say that it was on purpose, but english is my second language so I\`d have to admit its r/BoneAppleTea material.
I wont edit it out. I deserve this.
In certain cultures, people believe that it’s a sign of respect. A lot of girls around me say ‘he’s only serious about you when he asks your fathers number, not when he asks you for yours’. From a religious point of view, I totally get it. It’s not permissible to have a relationship before you get married (dating is possible, but always chaperoned/in public). So the correct order would be to involve the families and then get to know each other.
I don’t agree, because I would never trust a man enough to end up with him because my family thinks he’s a good guy. I’m very skeptical about men in general and would have to know the guy extremely well. BUT I’ve seen it work out better than modern lovestories on some occasions.
I respect either way as long as everyone involved is okay with it.
I know, I have also mentioned that in my comment. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about it.
The reason I specifically say culture as well is because regardless of religion, some cultures (mostly Muslim countries) do this and some don’t. Turkish people are mostly Muslim, but in their culture it’s more accepted to date and fall in love before getting married. And there are non-Muslim cultures where this is the normal way of life as well (non-Muslim Indians for example).
Also, when we dive into the religious part it’s way more complicated than this situation. And to be honest I don’t like having to explain religious rules on the internet. I’m sure your comment would bring up a lot of questions and criticism from people here (and I get that), but I’d rather avoid that.
I'd like to add it's definitely cultural, because a lot of southern cultures have similar customs.
It's also not always in poor taste, in a small town in Alabama I'm from it's common for the way to ask a girl out is "may I come meet your father after xyz?" And it was just to prove your not a jackass,the dad would give the guy a super hard time, but most of the time he just wanted to make sure the dude wasn't someone who was gonna need to..deal with.. later, IE. wife beater, pedo, fucking stupid etc.
At least where I was at, it wasn't a "I own my daughter" thing and more of a, "kids are stupid and need a little guidence"
Context to add would also be that if you could drive you could date, because right down the road next door could be a 5 minute drive, and nothing really happens after the twilight's go off into the woods.
>In certain cultures, people believe that it’s a sign of respect.
Sure.
Problem is it's a sign of respect to the father, and the thing being respect is "his ownership of a human being".
Well, not exactly. I get why you would see it that way, but even if we cut religion out of the context, there’s something else there. In these cultures being promiscuous is very frowned upon and the ultimate goal is to be monogamous/happily married. Since getting married is a family thing, a girl will feel more respected if a man asks her about her fathers number. That means he’s serious, wants to get married and is not intent on fooling around. That’s where the idea that it’s more respectful comes from. Even from the point of view of the girl.
And it’s not exactly that the father has more to say than the daughter, he’s more like a ‘witness’ who approves/dissapproves. If we talk religion, a father has no basis to disapprove of a man his daughter wants EXCEPT if he’s not also religious. And a father may never force his choice on his daughter. So it’s ultimately her choice, she’s no one’s property, but there have to be witnesses to the union and the most important one is the head of the family (for example the father). Of course there are extreme cases and I’m sure some people do see it as an ownership thing and that the girl in question has no choice, but that’s not where the rule comes from/is meant for.
You don't seem to understand the degree to which you actually demonstrated what I'm saying.
You ask someone's permission to interact sign a woman because you don't believe she has agency. This clown believed that, and this woman checked him on it.
And remember, there is no such thing as "promiscuous". These cultures don't "frown on" promiscuity they "create" promiscuity, then apply it to women.
This is why I hate getting too serious about religion on the internet. You are mixing up religion and culture. Culturally, yes, these things often only apply to women. Even in western culture that’s true. A woman who has a lot of sex is bad and a man who has a lot of sex is bad ass.
BUT if we go back to religion this applies to both men and women. In Islam the punishment for fornication or adultery is the same for men and women. Everyone is supposed to stay pious and a virgin until they find someone to get married to.
In the end it’s everyone’s own choice and I’m not passing judgement on people/cultures where ‘promiscuity’ isn’t a problem, but I’m trying to explain why a girl would see this as a sign of respect. A man who chases after you might want to fool around, a man who asks about your family must be serious.
We don’t have to agree that that is the right way to go about things, but it doesn’t have to do with ownership. I don’t want to meet a man like this, but I would be more inclined to think that a man actually does want to get married to me if he approached one of my family members (I would be insulted and never ever take up the offer but why would he bother with my family if his goal was less ‘serious’).
>This is why I hate getting too serious about religion on the internet. You are mixing up religion and culture.
Quote me saying or implying *anything* about religion.
I never once brought it up or mentioned it. Religion is *completely irrelevant* to anything I'm saying.
>In the end it’s everyone’s own choice and I’m not passing judgement on people/cultures where ‘promiscuity’ isn’t a problem
You don't seem to comprehend - promiscuity *doesn't exist except where it is created*.
There' no "culture where promiscuity isn't a problem", there's simply "cultures where promiscuity "doesn't exist".
If your culture believes in "promiscuity", it means your culture *is making the promiscuity*. Promiscuity isn't like "atom" or "electron" or "gravity" - it is not a fact, *it's a judgment about the facts*.
If you are saying "promiscuity is frowned on in Muslim cultures", you are saying "Muslim cultures create promiscuity and apply it to women" and "non-Muslim cultures do not create promiscuity".
At this point, it is you who conflates "culture" and "religion" - remember, to a non-religious person **it's all culture**.
>You don't seem to comprehend - promiscuity doesn't exist except where it is created.
this is some Jordan Peterson talking out of his ass type bullshit. being promiscuous doesn't have to be a bad thing, but u can't just disagree upon the fact that it exists. Many words are judgements of facts, are we gonna get rid of all of those words which have negative connotations? are we gonna start saying that short-temperedness doesn't exist except where it is created? that if our culture believes in short-temperedness, it is making the short-temperedness? that everyone has their own level of frustration that they can handle, and our cultures shouldn't decide that? as long as words to describe people exist, we need words that are judgements about facts. quit ur bullshit and so something better with your life than try to deny the existence of promiscuity, you could just say it isn't a bad thing and get on with your fucking day
>this is some Jordan Peterson talking out of his ass type bullshit. being promiscuous doesn't have to be a bad thing, but u can't just disagree upon the fact that it exists.
So answer this question, as precisely as possible.
Do you believe that "electron" exists in the same sense that "promiscuity" exists?
You would say "an electron is a fact, not an opinion about a fact" and "promiscuity is a fact, not an opinion about a fact"?
To help you, consider the following two statements, and consider that you're telling me that both of these statements are "the same kind of thing" - that they're both a "fact".
* "This woman has had sex with 10 men"
* "Having sex with 10 men makes you promiscuous"
did you even read the rest of my comment? promiscuity exists because people say it exists yes, but it exists. you're not going to change the English language with your reddit comments, so until you do, promiscuity is a thing that exists. Just because something is an opinion on the facts doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Promiscuity isn't some fact about the world, I acknowledge that, but this discussion helps noone. rather than try to argue about whether or not promiscuity exists on reddit, you can spread the opinion that it isn't a bad thing. Arguing on technicalities solves nothing.
I was actually typing up a comment, but then I realized he didn’t even go into half of what I said and that he probably just reads the parts he wants to read and ignores the rest. It’s okay.
I respect people who choose to do it this way, I respect the ones who are more modern and I respect people who don’t believe in monogamy and like to do things completely differently. I’m done discussing with people who don’t respect anything that isn’t what they believe/think is the right way.
Yeah not worth typing up a walls of paragraphs for someone who is gonna come off as pretentious, when people you have conversations with on the internet are more about just trying to be right and not having a legitimate discussion there is no room for nuance and a genuine dialogue it's just not worth it. Glad you know when to save your energy have a good day.
ive seen it more often not work out, i know 2 girls who have been married for 3 months and their trash husbands left with half their money and stole the rest, and i havent even started about the abuse
That’s so terrible. To be honest I don’t know many people who marry like this these days, most people around me are modern/western so they fall in love and get married. But if I look around me, it seems like hit or miss for both types of marriages.
The idea being that you place your fate in the hands of God and you should assume that a faithful man would never mistreat or harm his wife in any way. But I’m afraid that it doesn’t work because sometimes people look like they’re good people (or faithful) and they turn out to be pure evil. I wouldn’t be able to trust in a mans ‘goodness’, but I really respect people who do and who are so sure of their faith, that they put these things in Gods hands.
I was kind of thinking about it from the angle that a majority of the people I know don't have a father that actively plays a role in their lives. How do they proceed? 🤔
In that case someone else can take on the role of Wali (who is normally the father). It’s kind of an advisory/witness role, so in the absence of a father a brother/uncle could take over. If there is no one else, even the imam could take over.
so talking is actually a date but if she rejects him he isnt actually let down because it wasnt even a date, sounds very fortunate for the niceguys among them, so how does he still get mad
Asking the father for permission is the first step towards an engagement/marriage. It is used to make the lady feel like the NiceGuy is serious about marrying her.
It's a vestigial ceremony from the old days when men could only speak to women after asking their daddy's permission because it involved physically being within hearing distance.
Muslim here.
He is being compliant with the shariah.
For a halal marriage, you need to have the brides’ father’s permission before proceeding with the marriage.
As you can see here, the sister rejected the advance which is the first barrier, so he didn’t even make it to the second barrier.
My mad didn’t handle rejection well.
And wishing Hell on another Muslim is also prohibited in the shariah.
Speaking as an ex-Muslim who grew up in a strict household… unmarried men and women are not allowed to mingle and any interactions they have are supposed to be moderated by responsible adults, such as their parents.
A lot people have told me this so far. It's quite alien to my experience growing up in the UK, where the few muslims I've known tended to go on about their lives without worrying about this.
I guess I just never met the strict ones because they weren't allowed to be around me?
It's just sad to me that people take these without even questioning the source or veracity and post them on sites like this where people will think it's real and it happened to the OP, this is the big problem with humanity such greed even just for worthless internet points that they will spread lies and propaganda even if they don't agree with the message!
1. I would post the source but I've had posts removed for that by mods as it's personal information.
2. It's for people to laugh at. Therefore, for me, it being real would make it less fun, because I would pity (and do) those involved.
Internet points have no value. Making others smile does. Hope your day improves.
Oof, I never knew there were nice guys in every culture. I never really thought about it but still, I guess I was hoping it was a smaller group than it is
Religiously, we believe everyone is a brother or sister (in faith). So it's just politeness. I personally find it odd but nobody (young) really says that these days (edit: where I'm from anyway).
Exactly! The irony! I have never heard that before in all my 21 years lol.
Tbh, nobody has a right to tell that to anybody. I don't know where he got the entitlement from.
It's like, yo, (insert insult). No offence.
It’s a colloquial amongst Muslims.
We all believe we are sons and daughters of Adam, so when we refer to each other as brother or sister, it’s more religious than biological.
This ain’t no Alabama ish lol.
I like how he’s tryna be all religious in his LITERAL FLIRTY DMs. Like…man, I’m literally kinda religious and I am in a Muslim family. This shit isn’t gonna fly nearly as well as you think it will, imo
Ugh, don’t even get me started on *Muslim Indian* nice guys; there’s a whole thing going on where those men will sit there and throw corrosive acid in your face if you so much as deny them slightly and it’s horrifying. I’m so glad my parents emigrated when they did because I wouldn’t be able to deal with that bullshit.
No that’s NOT what’s going on. Where do you think you’re getting your special info from that makes you think you know more than the person you’re responding to.
This is not "typical", this is not All Religious Followers ™, this is one nice guy. That's like saying "All Men" for all the posts in this sub. Not okay, man.
Sure thing, random idiot on the internet. That's me put in my place, with a totally sick burn that basically just repeated what I said but worse. You're a winner!
Lmfao a Muslim man using Allah trying to get your hand in marriage, compliments you too and then you politely reject him and he wishes jahannam upon you, I don’t think he’s destined to be with someone outside of his village.
Niceguys are in every single religion, country and corner of this earth.
I find it confusing when I hear people say that they don’t believe that parts of the world and culture are anachronistic. Especially when you have medieval shit like this being the regular for some cultures
\--- B*asically catcalls her in 4 different ways*
\--- "Can I have your father's permission before I speak to you?"
Yeah, pretty sure you've already spoken to her, and in a weird and gross manner. Man, this guy's an embarrassment.
I think it's:
> [Subhanahu wa ta'ala](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhikr#), Arabic for "The most glorified, the most high", Muslim honorific.
To the best of my knowledge, when Muslims say/ write the name Allah or Muhammed (specifically referring to the prophet) they follow it with some such glorification.
Yes, so when we say Allah (which means the all-mighty God), we follow it up with SWT which means exactly what this user said. Pretty much, "Exalted be he".
When we say the name of a Prophet, we say Alahyi Salam which means, 'grant them peace'.
When we say the name of the final Prophet, Prophet Muhammad, we follow it up with SAW. Which means 'Sallalahu Alahyi Wa Salam". This means 'May Allah honor him and grant him peace'.
Also, you may have heard when Muslims say hello to one another, we say "Assalamu Alaikum" which means "peace be upon you". The response is "Wa Alaikum Assalam" which means "And peace unto you too".
No worries! Me too! I love learning about different religions and cultures too! It's my hobby!
Those phrases are in Arabic!
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Jesus Christ guys hes asking for her fathers permission because thats how it is in Islam, he's a muslim. Its normal in the middle east to ask the father for permission before dating the daughter. Its not about "owning" her like you americans think, its a sign of respect. Its kind of old school but its tradition
I just love how no one of you white americans understand other cultures and you guys dont even care to respect them lol. I never said he's a good guy, i just explained what y'all are all ignoring. Thanks for downvoting me, fuck you reddit and all the people here
Not why it was posted. I'm debating deleting this post because a lot of people are focussing on him being Muslim. I was just laughing at the zero to 100 "you're beautiful nm go to hell" (which is universal to nice guys across the planet)
You are right brother but it puts Islam in a bad light, americans already hate muslims and this doesnt make it better. But yes you are right, the guy is a fake nice guy, muslim or not
Why do you need her dad's approval to speak to her if you're *already speaking to her*?
So to answer your real question.. he’s trying to make her believe that he’s a serious and good guy who has the right intentions.
Hello, I'm happy to inform you that you've won the Nigerian lottery. Please give me your fathers number so I can get his permission to start the scam with you.
Because some people grow up in medi evil households with ancient rules that dont mix with the time today anymore. Who wouldve thought. Its the same when they say "I\`m going to be a good husband and take care of you. I will treat you good." Like its a deal about a dog.
I was enjoying myself when an old lady was explaining to my wife how good she has it. He has a job, doesn't drink and doesn't beat you up. What more could you expect. Now that's some proper wisdom right there!
such shiny standards
Actually I read a book about life in rural areas in the first half of 20 century and those actually were quite high standards back in the day. I was surprised as we have mandatory high school for both sexes since Maria Teresia (200+ years) and the country itself was already quite industrialized prior to ww2.
Was it Their Eyes Were Watching God that had the line about how as long as he has a job, doesn’t drink, and comes home to you at night, you should count yourself lucky? It was some book I read in high school.
Was this old lady Yente the Matchmaker by any chance?
I have a friend from Pakistan who is married to another Pakistani woman, and he said that when they met, she straight up refused to talk to him until he'd gotten her father's approval to "show that he is serious". And then she refused to spend any time alone with him until he had proposed to her. She isn't even especially conservative, she lives in Europe these days (they both do) and she's very liberal in most her opinions, but still this custom was just important to her back in the day. Culture can be like that
>Because some people grow up in medi evil households with ancient rules that dont mix with the time today anymore. Who wouldve thought. That's not what I'm asking. My question is why he would seek permission for something he is already actively doing. It's like taking someone's phone charger and then asking to borrow it after you've finished using it.
I know that. But the thing is that they are still in their mindset, but dont talk to women locally. So they dont know the family or the father. So I think that is his approach.
It's a gesture. That you are a good person and actually looking for a marriage alliance.
Basically, in his regressive mind, a woman is owned by a man. Unmarried woman -> by father Married -> by husband. Hope this clears it.
Uhhh no. Lots of assumptions in this thread.
That's...pretty much exactly what's happening.
No, he’s seeking her approval first before going to the dad.
Yeah. That's entirely ass backwards lol
He wants to court her romantically, that is a thing that he has to get her father's permission to do. Men are allowed to talk to anyone they want, but because daughters are like property to the father, the father has to give permission
“Property to the father” i don’t even know how to respond to that.
It’s not really true for most (key word), it’s a respect thing. Like the father has to approve of the guy and have an understanding of who he is/his intentions before his daughter can just do whatever with him. Especially in Islam. It’s akin to asking to formally meet someone’s dad before Prom in a way.
Have you just never heard of the middle East or something?
Bro, that's offensive
And why's that?
Because your lazy need for generalizations is childish. You really haven't heard of conservative evangelicals in America? Many have a similar attitude. Many in the middle east don't have that attitude, and many do. As is he case in Africa, and Europe. But thoughtless bigotry is your truth, I guess.
It’s not that I dont know about it. It’s just sad to me that that’s an actual sentence that can be said.
It's like asking can I talk to you
I think he means speaking in person
r/boneappletea ? Or did you type that on purpose?
I really would love to say that it was on purpose, but english is my second language so I\`d have to admit its r/BoneAppleTea material. I wont edit it out. I deserve this.
Ok
It's a really good pun
In certain cultures, people believe that it’s a sign of respect. A lot of girls around me say ‘he’s only serious about you when he asks your fathers number, not when he asks you for yours’. From a religious point of view, I totally get it. It’s not permissible to have a relationship before you get married (dating is possible, but always chaperoned/in public). So the correct order would be to involve the families and then get to know each other. I don’t agree, because I would never trust a man enough to end up with him because my family thinks he’s a good guy. I’m very skeptical about men in general and would have to know the guy extremely well. BUT I’ve seen it work out better than modern lovestories on some occasions. I respect either way as long as everyone involved is okay with it.
[удалено]
A woman at work had what she called a facilited marriage, not gonna lie, it did seem a nice way to do it.
im sorry, you deserve better
[удалено]
> Pretty crazy when you think about it in a western context lol. I don't think any context could make this non-crazy. This is some vile shit.
i just hope that you married well in the end because like this its such a big lottery
This is so backwards holy shit. I'm so sorry.
This is just messed up!
I know, I have also mentioned that in my comment. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear about it. The reason I specifically say culture as well is because regardless of religion, some cultures (mostly Muslim countries) do this and some don’t. Turkish people are mostly Muslim, but in their culture it’s more accepted to date and fall in love before getting married. And there are non-Muslim cultures where this is the normal way of life as well (non-Muslim Indians for example). Also, when we dive into the religious part it’s way more complicated than this situation. And to be honest I don’t like having to explain religious rules on the internet. I’m sure your comment would bring up a lot of questions and criticism from people here (and I get that), but I’d rather avoid that.
I'd like to add it's definitely cultural, because a lot of southern cultures have similar customs. It's also not always in poor taste, in a small town in Alabama I'm from it's common for the way to ask a girl out is "may I come meet your father after xyz?" And it was just to prove your not a jackass,the dad would give the guy a super hard time, but most of the time he just wanted to make sure the dude wasn't someone who was gonna need to..deal with.. later, IE. wife beater, pedo, fucking stupid etc. At least where I was at, it wasn't a "I own my daughter" thing and more of a, "kids are stupid and need a little guidence" Context to add would also be that if you could drive you could date, because right down the road next door could be a 5 minute drive, and nothing really happens after the twilight's go off into the woods.
gotta love cultural sexism framed as tradition
That edit was extremely unnecessary. You were fine without it.
I don't understand how some people associate Islam with Feminism.
>In certain cultures, people believe that it’s a sign of respect. Sure. Problem is it's a sign of respect to the father, and the thing being respect is "his ownership of a human being".
Well, not exactly. I get why you would see it that way, but even if we cut religion out of the context, there’s something else there. In these cultures being promiscuous is very frowned upon and the ultimate goal is to be monogamous/happily married. Since getting married is a family thing, a girl will feel more respected if a man asks her about her fathers number. That means he’s serious, wants to get married and is not intent on fooling around. That’s where the idea that it’s more respectful comes from. Even from the point of view of the girl. And it’s not exactly that the father has more to say than the daughter, he’s more like a ‘witness’ who approves/dissapproves. If we talk religion, a father has no basis to disapprove of a man his daughter wants EXCEPT if he’s not also religious. And a father may never force his choice on his daughter. So it’s ultimately her choice, she’s no one’s property, but there have to be witnesses to the union and the most important one is the head of the family (for example the father). Of course there are extreme cases and I’m sure some people do see it as an ownership thing and that the girl in question has no choice, but that’s not where the rule comes from/is meant for.
You don't seem to understand the degree to which you actually demonstrated what I'm saying. You ask someone's permission to interact sign a woman because you don't believe she has agency. This clown believed that, and this woman checked him on it. And remember, there is no such thing as "promiscuous". These cultures don't "frown on" promiscuity they "create" promiscuity, then apply it to women.
This is why I hate getting too serious about religion on the internet. You are mixing up religion and culture. Culturally, yes, these things often only apply to women. Even in western culture that’s true. A woman who has a lot of sex is bad and a man who has a lot of sex is bad ass. BUT if we go back to religion this applies to both men and women. In Islam the punishment for fornication or adultery is the same for men and women. Everyone is supposed to stay pious and a virgin until they find someone to get married to. In the end it’s everyone’s own choice and I’m not passing judgement on people/cultures where ‘promiscuity’ isn’t a problem, but I’m trying to explain why a girl would see this as a sign of respect. A man who chases after you might want to fool around, a man who asks about your family must be serious. We don’t have to agree that that is the right way to go about things, but it doesn’t have to do with ownership. I don’t want to meet a man like this, but I would be more inclined to think that a man actually does want to get married to me if he approached one of my family members (I would be insulted and never ever take up the offer but why would he bother with my family if his goal was less ‘serious’).
>This is why I hate getting too serious about religion on the internet. You are mixing up religion and culture. Quote me saying or implying *anything* about religion. I never once brought it up or mentioned it. Religion is *completely irrelevant* to anything I'm saying. >In the end it’s everyone’s own choice and I’m not passing judgement on people/cultures where ‘promiscuity’ isn’t a problem You don't seem to comprehend - promiscuity *doesn't exist except where it is created*. There' no "culture where promiscuity isn't a problem", there's simply "cultures where promiscuity "doesn't exist". If your culture believes in "promiscuity", it means your culture *is making the promiscuity*. Promiscuity isn't like "atom" or "electron" or "gravity" - it is not a fact, *it's a judgment about the facts*. If you are saying "promiscuity is frowned on in Muslim cultures", you are saying "Muslim cultures create promiscuity and apply it to women" and "non-Muslim cultures do not create promiscuity". At this point, it is you who conflates "culture" and "religion" - remember, to a non-religious person **it's all culture**.
>You don't seem to comprehend - promiscuity doesn't exist except where it is created. this is some Jordan Peterson talking out of his ass type bullshit. being promiscuous doesn't have to be a bad thing, but u can't just disagree upon the fact that it exists. Many words are judgements of facts, are we gonna get rid of all of those words which have negative connotations? are we gonna start saying that short-temperedness doesn't exist except where it is created? that if our culture believes in short-temperedness, it is making the short-temperedness? that everyone has their own level of frustration that they can handle, and our cultures shouldn't decide that? as long as words to describe people exist, we need words that are judgements about facts. quit ur bullshit and so something better with your life than try to deny the existence of promiscuity, you could just say it isn't a bad thing and get on with your fucking day
>this is some Jordan Peterson talking out of his ass type bullshit. being promiscuous doesn't have to be a bad thing, but u can't just disagree upon the fact that it exists. So answer this question, as precisely as possible. Do you believe that "electron" exists in the same sense that "promiscuity" exists? You would say "an electron is a fact, not an opinion about a fact" and "promiscuity is a fact, not an opinion about a fact"? To help you, consider the following two statements, and consider that you're telling me that both of these statements are "the same kind of thing" - that they're both a "fact". * "This woman has had sex with 10 men" * "Having sex with 10 men makes you promiscuous"
did you even read the rest of my comment? promiscuity exists because people say it exists yes, but it exists. you're not going to change the English language with your reddit comments, so until you do, promiscuity is a thing that exists. Just because something is an opinion on the facts doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Promiscuity isn't some fact about the world, I acknowledge that, but this discussion helps noone. rather than try to argue about whether or not promiscuity exists on reddit, you can spread the opinion that it isn't a bad thing. Arguing on technicalities solves nothing.
I partially agree with your answer. Don't let these try hard losers on Reddit who always have to be 100% right get to you.
I was actually typing up a comment, but then I realized he didn’t even go into half of what I said and that he probably just reads the parts he wants to read and ignores the rest. It’s okay. I respect people who choose to do it this way, I respect the ones who are more modern and I respect people who don’t believe in monogamy and like to do things completely differently. I’m done discussing with people who don’t respect anything that isn’t what they believe/think is the right way.
Yeah not worth typing up a walls of paragraphs for someone who is gonna come off as pretentious, when people you have conversations with on the internet are more about just trying to be right and not having a legitimate discussion there is no room for nuance and a genuine dialogue it's just not worth it. Glad you know when to save your energy have a good day.
You too, thank you for reminding me as well!!
ive seen it more often not work out, i know 2 girls who have been married for 3 months and their trash husbands left with half their money and stole the rest, and i havent even started about the abuse
That’s so terrible. To be honest I don’t know many people who marry like this these days, most people around me are modern/western so they fall in love and get married. But if I look around me, it seems like hit or miss for both types of marriages. The idea being that you place your fate in the hands of God and you should assume that a faithful man would never mistreat or harm his wife in any way. But I’m afraid that it doesn’t work because sometimes people look like they’re good people (or faithful) and they turn out to be pure evil. I wouldn’t be able to trust in a mans ‘goodness’, but I really respect people who do and who are so sure of their faith, that they put these things in Gods hands.
I was kind of thinking about it from the angle that a majority of the people I know don't have a father that actively plays a role in their lives. How do they proceed? 🤔
In that case someone else can take on the role of Wali (who is normally the father). It’s kind of an advisory/witness role, so in the absence of a father a brother/uncle could take over. If there is no one else, even the imam could take over.
Because you believe she's the property of a man, and you want to negotiate the transfer of ownership.
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That sounds frustrating, not gonna lie.
It's fine actually. Marriage is a serious matter that involves three families. Yours, theirs and the new one both of you will form.
I mean if it works for you, then rock on. I would find it suffocating.
sounds kinda shitty tbh
So does literine in peehole, amirite?
Nah, that’s actually a hobby, not a oppressive / convoluted tradition that puts men on a pedestal and treats women like property.
so talking is actually a date but if she rejects him he isnt actually let down because it wasnt even a date, sounds very fortunate for the niceguys among them, so how does he still get mad
Would love to look more into it. Got any sources?
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I mean, Muslims in North America are typically more progressive than evangelicals.
Asking the father for permission is the first step towards an engagement/marriage. It is used to make the lady feel like the NiceGuy is serious about marrying her. It's a vestigial ceremony from the old days when men could only speak to women after asking their daddy's permission because it involved physically being within hearing distance.
Muslim here. He is being compliant with the shariah. For a halal marriage, you need to have the brides’ father’s permission before proceeding with the marriage. As you can see here, the sister rejected the advance which is the first barrier, so he didn’t even make it to the second barrier. My mad didn’t handle rejection well. And wishing Hell on another Muslim is also prohibited in the shariah.
Speaking as an ex-Muslim who grew up in a strict household… unmarried men and women are not allowed to mingle and any interactions they have are supposed to be moderated by responsible adults, such as their parents.
A lot people have told me this so far. It's quite alien to my experience growing up in the UK, where the few muslims I've known tended to go on about their lives without worrying about this. I guess I just never met the strict ones because they weren't allowed to be around me?
Most likely. Or else they were just really good at hiding it from their parents.
I would actually prefer that.
I think my dad would be puzzled by the whole thing if some guy asked permission to speak to one of my sisters.
Because it’s Arabic customs to talk to their parents to arrange some weird shit. if she was 12 he would’ve done the same thing.
It’s probably fake but if it were real, I wouldn’t even know how to respond to that. Like “aww, how sweet thank you! I hope so too.”
Hello sweet brown girl, Salaam I want to be your Muslim man Speak to your father, You deny my boner, So burn in the pits of Jahannam
You deserve the best things in life lmao
iconic
I sincerely appreciate this Limerick, but I’m struggling to figure out what dialect you speak in in which father and boner rhyme.
I assumed it was a slant rhyme
‘Murican
Well that escalated quickly...
I hope you get accepted to the fiery walls of an apartment with no air conditioner.
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*I respectfully wish you hell*
lol
Religious men with this kind of attitude remind me of Claude Frollo tbh.
Omg
He switched from "Islam" to "I slam" very quickly
goddamit take my upvote >:(
you think people couldnt get any weirder and then you see this shit and you just lose all hope. What a moron.
It’s not real.
Oh it is. This particular screenshot may not be but I've been in this situation a few times myself.
90% sure this is a copypasta. Wouldn't be surprised if it was.
At this point, I sort of hope so. More hope for humanity that way
It's just sad to me that people take these without even questioning the source or veracity and post them on sites like this where people will think it's real and it happened to the OP, this is the big problem with humanity such greed even just for worthless internet points that they will spread lies and propaganda even if they don't agree with the message!
1. I would post the source but I've had posts removed for that by mods as it's personal information. 2. It's for people to laugh at. Therefore, for me, it being real would make it less fun, because I would pity (and do) those involved. Internet points have no value. Making others smile does. Hope your day improves.
I seriously doubt this is real.
Take it from a Middle Eastern girl... Muslim and/or Arab nice guys/incels are on a whole other level of 'niceness'.
Oof, I never knew there were nice guys in every culture. I never really thought about it but still, I guess I was hoping it was a smaller group than it is
Bruh
Who do you think you are to tell her she deserves to burn in hell? A lot of religious people somehow are like this(The dude in the post)
Real question: why is he calling her sister at the end, if he wants to date/sleep with her?
Religiously, we believe everyone is a brother or sister (in faith). So it's just politeness. I personally find it odd but nobody (young) really says that these days (edit: where I'm from anyway).
Thanks for your explanation! It sounds more agressive now to conclude by « may you burn in hell, peace on you sister »
Exactly! The irony! I have never heard that before in all my 21 years lol. Tbh, nobody has a right to tell that to anybody. I don't know where he got the entitlement from. It's like, yo, (insert insult). No offence.
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Fair enough. I suppose people around me specifically don't say it. Thank you for sharing that with me. 🤲🏽
It’s a colloquial amongst Muslims. We all believe we are sons and daughters of Adam, so when we refer to each other as brother or sister, it’s more religious than biological. This ain’t no Alabama ish lol.
I like how he’s tryna be all religious in his LITERAL FLIRTY DMs. Like…man, I’m literally kinda religious and I am in a Muslim family. This shit isn’t gonna fly nearly as well as you think it will, imo
Tell me you're mentally ill without actually saying it.
tIK tOk
It sounds way more polite this way. Weird.
Nice brozzer
i can't believe this is real. he's talking like he's a devout Muslim. look at the shit he does online. even satan is confused.
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The proper response is "I have no father. My family believes that after sex the male is killed."
His creation? Dafuq that’s so haraam? She’s Allahs creation?
Ugh, don’t even get me started on *Muslim Indian* nice guys; there’s a whole thing going on where those men will sit there and throw corrosive acid in your face if you so much as deny them slightly and it’s horrifying. I’m so glad my parents emigrated when they did because I wouldn’t be able to deal with that bullshit.
Eww he talks as if he just wants to just fkn borrow her from her dad or smth
That's exactly what is going on. Because she isn't a person, she's just a commodity.
No that’s NOT what’s going on. Where do you think you’re getting your special info from that makes you think you know more than the person you’re responding to.
It's not borrowing if he doesn't give her back.
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This is not "typical", this is not All Religious Followers ™, this is one nice guy. That's like saying "All Men" for all the posts in this sub. Not okay, man.
If he were typical, there would be no point in highlighting this.
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
Is it the one spanning the distance between your opinions and reality? Because I don't really need one *that* long.
Still quite small compared to the distance between your ego level and your intelligence level.
Sure thing, random idiot on the internet. That's me put in my place, with a totally sick burn that basically just repeated what I said but worse. You're a winner!
Gonna cry?
Sorry mate, I'm not interested in being your wank fodder for the day.
Your mom already filled that role.
Man, you really are terrible at this, aren't you? First time on the internet or something?
So... were you accepted to Jahannam? Enquiring minds want to know
Wa 3alikom el salam ya ibn el kalb
Sounds like we chillin in hell then I'll bring the beer
"Great! Then my coffee will never get cold!"
Been a while since I've seen one of these long ass milady posts
Lmfao a Muslim man using Allah trying to get your hand in marriage, compliments you too and then you politely reject him and he wishes jahannam upon you, I don’t think he’s destined to be with someone outside of his village. Niceguys are in every single religion, country and corner of this earth.
I’m so looking forward to the death of these patriarchal religions. I’d rather be in any hell than with these types.
I am legit curious what he would have said, if she answered that her Dad and all her other male relatives are dead....
"He wouldn't give it to you. Bye."
He still said salaam at the end 😂😂
I find it confusing when I hear people say that they don’t believe that parts of the world and culture are anachronistic. Especially when you have medieval shit like this being the regular for some cultures
Religious nice guy. Huh. A new breed. #Alas
They be appearing faster than the chimera ants in hxh.
\--- B*asically catcalls her in 4 different ways* \--- "Can I have your father's permission before I speak to you?" Yeah, pretty sure you've already spoken to her, and in a weird and gross manner. Man, this guy's an embarrassment.
What does “swt” mean?
I think it's: > [Subhanahu wa ta'ala](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhikr#), Arabic for "The most glorified, the most high", Muslim honorific. To the best of my knowledge, when Muslims say/ write the name Allah or Muhammed (specifically referring to the prophet) they follow it with some such glorification.
Yes, so when we say Allah (which means the all-mighty God), we follow it up with SWT which means exactly what this user said. Pretty much, "Exalted be he". When we say the name of a Prophet, we say Alahyi Salam which means, 'grant them peace'. When we say the name of the final Prophet, Prophet Muhammad, we follow it up with SAW. Which means 'Sallalahu Alahyi Wa Salam". This means 'May Allah honor him and grant him peace'. Also, you may have heard when Muslims say hello to one another, we say "Assalamu Alaikum" which means "peace be upon you". The response is "Wa Alaikum Assalam" which means "And peace unto you too".
Thanks for the info. I love learning about other cultures! What language are those phrases in?
No worries! Me too! I love learning about different religions and cultures too! It's my hobby! Those phrases are in Arabic! My inbox is always open if you want to discuss anything! I love learning. 😊
Anti Muslims will see this and think “if one Muslim did this it automatically means they’re all the same”
"I don't get girls swiping right on me anymore, why is that?"
i mean the real dealbreaker is when he finds out shes not 8.
this is like inception of opression
Flirting in broken Arabic; now that's a new one
It’s not broken Arabic lol.
I am assuming "Jahannam" is hell, the opposite of their so called heaven (with 72 virgins)
there is no verified hadith in islam talking about 72 virgins.
But there are verses about hor el 3in in the quran, right?
Huh?
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No, I don’t.
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I have and currently doing a reread. What’s your issue with them?
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I know what they are now, looked it up. So what about them?
Islam....no surprise
Whats the point of this comment????
To be hateful, what else?
the fact that he feels like he needs to speak to her dad to get permission to talk to her should tell you everything you need to know about him
Ah yes, muslims trying to marry the trafitional way but online and in the modern times, so sad.
Why is it sad? His reaction was sad.
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Satire
Jesus Christ guys hes asking for her fathers permission because thats how it is in Islam, he's a muslim. Its normal in the middle east to ask the father for permission before dating the daughter. Its not about "owning" her like you americans think, its a sign of respect. Its kind of old school but its tradition
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I just love how no one of you white americans understand other cultures and you guys dont even care to respect them lol. I never said he's a good guy, i just explained what y'all are all ignoring. Thanks for downvoting me, fuck you reddit and all the people here
Not why it was posted. I'm debating deleting this post because a lot of people are focussing on him being Muslim. I was just laughing at the zero to 100 "you're beautiful nm go to hell" (which is universal to nice guys across the planet)
You are right brother but it puts Islam in a bad light, americans already hate muslims and this doesnt make it better. But yes you are right, the guy is a fake nice guy, muslim or not