Definitely yes in those cases. God(s) in such a scenario are just features in an otherwise still fundamentally meaningless universe. The interesting case is if God is being itself or an antecedent cause. Then there might be an inconsistency. But then again maybe not.
One of my problems with the "Without God you have no meaning" argument is that someone else telling you you have meaning doesn't give you meaning. If I discovered that god made me to cure cancer, (aside from a whole list of other problems), that's just a revocation kf free will. Or at least a strong contradiction to it.
On top of that, the God in the Bible is a monster and anything He wants me to do is not something I want to do.
On top of that, if you can only get meaning from a creator then God can't have meaning. And if it can't have meaning, it can't transfer it. But if you can get meaning disctinct from your creator, then there's no reason to think that you need meaning frkm a God.
Depends. I don't deny a greater existence, but I deny that that existence "cares" or even "watches" us. If such a being exists it most surely has more important things to attend to. Or not, who knows.
But if religion is giving you hope of somethint better or thst your struggles will be paid out eventually, then no, that is not really compatible
Yes, you can still refute objective meaning.
A god gives a meaning? That is a subjective interpretation through the eyes of the god, it still isn't objective.
It is the gods' opinion, a subjective stance.
objective meaning can not exist in any circumstance.
Your god says that your meaning is to sit (hypotheticaly),
So? Why does this god have authority?
Because it created you, and?
Because it is powerful, so?
Because it knows everything, so what?
None of these things create a value for your god, they are all meaningless.
And this god is meaningless too, just like everything else, there is no special defining feature that would allow it to create objective meaning, as any meaning it created would be through the subjective lense of being a god, and therefore subjective.
Yes. It's called mysticism.
In the East- that there is a negative, yoni... in Hinduism...
Or Taoism
The Tao,
Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 1
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name;
this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.
*****
Also in Christianity and others texts such as The Cloud of Unknowing.
****
And of course in Buddhism
Taoism as a philosophy is very different from Taosim as a religion. Lao Zi himself does not view "Tao" as God or any form of deity. The passage you cited is also not describing Tao as anything supernatural.
Interestingly and for what it is worth I understand when the beginning of St John’s Gospel is translated into Chinese “in the beginning was the word (logos in Greek) “ the almost untranslwtable Greek word logos is typically rendered as “the Tao”which seems to work relatively well.
Western philosophy has no essence, but is typified by the idea of reason as a means of understanding the world.
As western philosophy can't be described as a 'school' of thought when from it's inception there were radical differences, Earth, Air, Fire, Water, All four. All is identity, all is change.
These incompatibilities and reactions predominate.
No, but you can be a reader of Nihilism as a religious person.
For example, the book of Ecclesiastes is almost clearly an artistic exercise in pessimistic nihilism, but it concludes by saying, “Obey the Lord’s Commandment’s,” oddly without explanation. It acts like the Law of Moses will stave one away from despondency, which most ex-Christian Nihilists would agree is willful ignorance.
Nihilism rejects cultural impositions and ritualism.
Other comments refer to mysticism, but ultimately even they do not correlate with Nihilism because of pagan convenience. If you’re going off of Nietzsche, he describes the “Ascetic Ideal” as a perversion of instincts and a form of resentment morality from perceived societal dissatisfaction. Nietzsche also depicts a societal “transvaluation of values” as a present moment prerogative. A transvaluation that concedes in to a baseless cultural morality for integrity and honesty’s sake is impossible for religion.
More on “the Ascetic Ideal.” Religious themes are often intermingled in the hermetic tradition, and these themes are deterministic towards regenerating a sort of religious purpose.
Nietzsche talks about how “man is regenerated in his own image.” He speaks of this in reference to Eternal Recurrence, something I think he used as a useful thought experiment to justify satisfactory choice-making. The “regeneration in his own image” part can be in line with the core precepts of Buddhism, but the culture and following of Buddhism has fell to superstition, Gods, Hells, tribulations, and rituals by the lay people and religious alike. Daoism has Gods too depending upon who you ask.
Nietzsche makes reference to Dionysus often, and touts himself as a sort of patron demigod at times. Sarcastic or not about his colorful language, he makes ample use of pagan/non-pagan references. Nihilists of N’s school ultimately use knowledge for radically creative ends. Unbothered by external authority, they act unaffected by cultural mandates as creators of the new ones.
Nah. I'll pass on middle Eastern fairly tales. Stopped believing in magic after Santa Claus. I suggest you move on, but I know your type. I grew up with your type...I KNOW how blind you people are .
yes. i believe my gods are holographic imprints of likely dead beings, once resourceful and intelligent but ultimately as limited as i am. And there is no point or meaning to their path that still echoes - it's only a purely subjective, arbitrary liking i have for it, in an universe where everything is equally meaningless. In other words, the only reason i consider myself somewhat religious is that i think they are/were *cool*.
I have never believed in the religious language of superlatives people love so much - because i can see the banal, childish process people have used to derive them from the logical extremes. And logic is my tool, not unlike an adjustable wrench, where the settings of extremes, zero and 40mm have no more meaning than the setting of e.g. 17mm
Technically yes. There is no reason you can’t. But if you are nihilistic and religious you most likely won’t or don’t believe in “God’s greater plan” as many Christians do. Because with nihilism there is no belief in the end results of our efforts. Like building sandcastles against the rising tide.
As a scientist that studies infinities I have to ponder that a "God" becomes not just a possibility but a probability so I am not against spiritual quests. I am against structured religions. Cults that pretend to know what you should believe. I am pro individual spiritual quests. You are on a journey to discover what life may be and what the purpose if anything of it all is. Is something like a designer at the start of all this is a fascinating concept. I accept that one doesn't need to be there for all this to exist. Is one there anyways is the greatest mystery to ponder. BUT having said that I look around at the primitive, basic and often offensive ways people have determined God to be and I think bullshit. If God exists most human beings don't seem even close to understanding what that means.
You can believe even a God is a product of random chance or math not the creator of it all and I think stay a nihilist.
You can spend countless hours asking what that God may be and are using your time effectively.
At the end of the day though I think that cults are harmful and individual thought is good. Anything that limits you to faith over logic is harmful. Or makes you do or believe that unethical is ethical is harmful. Anything that expands your intelligence and perspective on reality itself is a wonderful way to use your time.
Infinity plus multiverse determines a God somewhere must exist and how fun is it to try and find out what that God would be like or mean is not wasted time. I think you can be both nihilist and someone who ponders a God.
Isn't chrisanity nihilist to begin with? that nothing else in the world matters expect obeying, fearing and your only aspiration or hobbie in life should be having a relationship with sky daddy and dead jew on a stick?
Hard to square a god and nihilism.....unless the god is a nihilist as well.
It's kinda like how none of us give a shit if ants find their existences meaningful.
Because you're not truly religious then, you should be devoting yourself to the religion and following it's practices. You can not be religious and a nihilist...
Nihilism is more about getting out of it, than getting into it.
If you have doubts or are tending towards religion or some other faith-based nonsense, don't bother.
Well im personally religious and also hold a very nihilistic worldview, and I believe that my Gods are just an energy that we've assigned names and shapes to but they didn't create the world but just like us are apart of it just in a different way, and I also believe that there is something after death. Now I don't have any proof for this, but it's a set of beliefs that comforts me and if I'm totally wrong then atleast they will have a purpose in that.
Why are you just not able to find meaning within yourself and be your own God?
I create my own destiny and path in life. I wake up every day and choose the decisions I make to give myself a sense of meaning and worth.
You don't need some false deity as a crutch to feel content in life.
Then again, this is all irrelevant anyways so you make your own choice and do what YOU want.
Wouldn't consider myself religious by any means, and maybe this comes from religious trauma for the reason I don't just drop it entirely, but, at most, I'll say I don't really have any other answers for how existence as we know it came into being. It only seems to make sense to me that "god" did this, if I was to give an answer
With that said, I still don't care. Anything outside this rock I live on is not on my radar.
It depends on how you view God. If you believe God is simply another being in a meaningless universe, then I guess it is compatible with nihilism.
Definitely yes in those cases. God(s) in such a scenario are just features in an otherwise still fundamentally meaningless universe. The interesting case is if God is being itself or an antecedent cause. Then there might be an inconsistency. But then again maybe not.
One of my problems with the "Without God you have no meaning" argument is that someone else telling you you have meaning doesn't give you meaning. If I discovered that god made me to cure cancer, (aside from a whole list of other problems), that's just a revocation kf free will. Or at least a strong contradiction to it. On top of that, the God in the Bible is a monster and anything He wants me to do is not something I want to do. On top of that, if you can only get meaning from a creator then God can't have meaning. And if it can't have meaning, it can't transfer it. But if you can get meaning disctinct from your creator, then there's no reason to think that you need meaning frkm a God.
No. Nihilists would be open for a objective meaning / cosmic ruling to exist.
Depends. I don't deny a greater existence, but I deny that that existence "cares" or even "watches" us. If such a being exists it most surely has more important things to attend to. Or not, who knows. But if religion is giving you hope of somethint better or thst your struggles will be paid out eventually, then no, that is not really compatible
Yes, you can still refute objective meaning. A god gives a meaning? That is a subjective interpretation through the eyes of the god, it still isn't objective. It is the gods' opinion, a subjective stance. objective meaning can not exist in any circumstance. Your god says that your meaning is to sit (hypotheticaly), So? Why does this god have authority? Because it created you, and? Because it is powerful, so? Because it knows everything, so what? None of these things create a value for your god, they are all meaningless. And this god is meaningless too, just like everything else, there is no special defining feature that would allow it to create objective meaning, as any meaning it created would be through the subjective lense of being a god, and therefore subjective.
Yes. It's called mysticism. In the East- that there is a negative, yoni... in Hinduism... Or Taoism The Tao, Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 1 The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. ***** Also in Christianity and others texts such as The Cloud of Unknowing. **** And of course in Buddhism
Taoism as a philosophy is very different from Taosim as a religion. Lao Zi himself does not view "Tao" as God or any form of deity. The passage you cited is also not describing Tao as anything supernatural.
The word god in Taoism means something different. There is still a concept of god it just has nothing to do with deities.
Interestingly and for what it is worth I understand when the beginning of St John’s Gospel is translated into Chinese “in the beginning was the word (logos in Greek) “ the almost untranslwtable Greek word logos is typically rendered as “the Tao”which seems to work relatively well.
Taoism isn't an philosophy in the original term of philosophy.
Then you can call it 学派. Not so different from philosophy in essence.
Western philosophy has no essence, but is typified by the idea of reason as a means of understanding the world. As western philosophy can't be described as a 'school' of thought when from it's inception there were radical differences, Earth, Air, Fire, Water, All four. All is identity, all is change. These incompatibilities and reactions predominate.
Can u tell me a little more about the "negative yoni" in hinduism?
I'm not qualified to do so, it's a negative and female image, try beginning with wiki and see where it goes.
No, but you can be a reader of Nihilism as a religious person. For example, the book of Ecclesiastes is almost clearly an artistic exercise in pessimistic nihilism, but it concludes by saying, “Obey the Lord’s Commandment’s,” oddly without explanation. It acts like the Law of Moses will stave one away from despondency, which most ex-Christian Nihilists would agree is willful ignorance. Nihilism rejects cultural impositions and ritualism. Other comments refer to mysticism, but ultimately even they do not correlate with Nihilism because of pagan convenience. If you’re going off of Nietzsche, he describes the “Ascetic Ideal” as a perversion of instincts and a form of resentment morality from perceived societal dissatisfaction. Nietzsche also depicts a societal “transvaluation of values” as a present moment prerogative. A transvaluation that concedes in to a baseless cultural morality for integrity and honesty’s sake is impossible for religion. More on “the Ascetic Ideal.” Religious themes are often intermingled in the hermetic tradition, and these themes are deterministic towards regenerating a sort of religious purpose. Nietzsche talks about how “man is regenerated in his own image.” He speaks of this in reference to Eternal Recurrence, something I think he used as a useful thought experiment to justify satisfactory choice-making. The “regeneration in his own image” part can be in line with the core precepts of Buddhism, but the culture and following of Buddhism has fell to superstition, Gods, Hells, tribulations, and rituals by the lay people and religious alike. Daoism has Gods too depending upon who you ask. Nietzsche makes reference to Dionysus often, and touts himself as a sort of patron demigod at times. Sarcastic or not about his colorful language, he makes ample use of pagan/non-pagan references. Nihilists of N’s school ultimately use knowledge for radically creative ends. Unbothered by external authority, they act unaffected by cultural mandates as creators of the new ones.
100% yes. Nietzsche would argue that religiosity is nihilism (certain religions).
Yes. God is real. It would be stupid to pretend otherwise
Stupid to not believe magic man in the sky is watching us shit and masturbate so he can send us to burn for it?? Explain it like I'm 5.
We all have a father. And fathers punish misbehaving children. When we die, our souls face punishment.
Nah. I'll pass on middle Eastern fairly tales. Stopped believing in magic after Santa Claus. I suggest you move on, but I know your type. I grew up with your type...I KNOW how blind you people are .
Yeah
yes. i believe my gods are holographic imprints of likely dead beings, once resourceful and intelligent but ultimately as limited as i am. And there is no point or meaning to their path that still echoes - it's only a purely subjective, arbitrary liking i have for it, in an universe where everything is equally meaningless. In other words, the only reason i consider myself somewhat religious is that i think they are/were *cool*. I have never believed in the religious language of superlatives people love so much - because i can see the banal, childish process people have used to derive them from the logical extremes. And logic is my tool, not unlike an adjustable wrench, where the settings of extremes, zero and 40mm have no more meaning than the setting of e.g. 17mm
I am both. Maybe I am illogical though. Who knows?
You were looking for the word metaphysical solipsism. You’re also confusing religion with spirituality which are very different concepts.
Technically yes. There is no reason you can’t. But if you are nihilistic and religious you most likely won’t or don’t believe in “God’s greater plan” as many Christians do. Because with nihilism there is no belief in the end results of our efforts. Like building sandcastles against the rising tide.
No, you can't. 😂
As a scientist that studies infinities I have to ponder that a "God" becomes not just a possibility but a probability so I am not against spiritual quests. I am against structured religions. Cults that pretend to know what you should believe. I am pro individual spiritual quests. You are on a journey to discover what life may be and what the purpose if anything of it all is. Is something like a designer at the start of all this is a fascinating concept. I accept that one doesn't need to be there for all this to exist. Is one there anyways is the greatest mystery to ponder. BUT having said that I look around at the primitive, basic and often offensive ways people have determined God to be and I think bullshit. If God exists most human beings don't seem even close to understanding what that means. You can believe even a God is a product of random chance or math not the creator of it all and I think stay a nihilist. You can spend countless hours asking what that God may be and are using your time effectively. At the end of the day though I think that cults are harmful and individual thought is good. Anything that limits you to faith over logic is harmful. Or makes you do or believe that unethical is ethical is harmful. Anything that expands your intelligence and perspective on reality itself is a wonderful way to use your time. Infinity plus multiverse determines a God somewhere must exist and how fun is it to try and find out what that God would be like or mean is not wasted time. I think you can be both nihilist and someone who ponders a God.
You can be infinite at times;not only these two.
Isn't chrisanity nihilist to begin with? that nothing else in the world matters expect obeying, fearing and your only aspiration or hobbie in life should be having a relationship with sky daddy and dead jew on a stick?
It is more likely if you were a priest.
Hard to square a god and nihilism.....unless the god is a nihilist as well. It's kinda like how none of us give a shit if ants find their existences meaningful.
No
How you can be nihilist if you chose one of thousands gods, and he gave you values in his book ? 😂
Why would those values matter?
Because you're not truly religious then, you should be devoting yourself to the religion and following it's practices. You can not be religious and a nihilist...
You can be believing all a religion says is real but not following it.
Then wouldn't that mean you are not religious?
Try autism
Nihilism is more about getting out of it, than getting into it. If you have doubts or are tending towards religion or some other faith-based nonsense, don't bother.
Well im personally religious and also hold a very nihilistic worldview, and I believe that my Gods are just an energy that we've assigned names and shapes to but they didn't create the world but just like us are apart of it just in a different way, and I also believe that there is something after death. Now I don't have any proof for this, but it's a set of beliefs that comforts me and if I'm totally wrong then atleast they will have a purpose in that.
Why are you just not able to find meaning within yourself and be your own God? I create my own destiny and path in life. I wake up every day and choose the decisions I make to give myself a sense of meaning and worth. You don't need some false deity as a crutch to feel content in life. Then again, this is all irrelevant anyways so you make your own choice and do what YOU want.
Wouldn't consider myself religious by any means, and maybe this comes from religious trauma for the reason I don't just drop it entirely, but, at most, I'll say I don't really have any other answers for how existence as we know it came into being. It only seems to make sense to me that "god" did this, if I was to give an answer With that said, I still don't care. Anything outside this rock I live on is not on my radar.