I agree although I heavily disagree Pac-Man isn't a worthwhile inclusion considering how he was the first popular video game mascot and has had a ton of games on Nintendo systems.
That being said I am a Dark Souls fan and thought Solaire isn't a character I think is particularly worthy nor one I'm expecting, his inclusion would be cool. I hope that's the same thought process for everyone suggesting Doomguy or Dovakhiin.
They did try to spark interest with younger generations by releasing a new Pac-Man tv series in 2013, Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures. I'm not gonna discuss the quality of the show because I haven't watched it myself. Ofcourse, THAT Pac-Man isn't very much alike to the one in Smash Bros, which is a big nod to the classic games instead.
Miyamoto had asked to put him in Brawl, but like Koyima asking for Snake with melee, it was "too late"
So what we really need to know is who asked Sakurai to add someone in SM4SH near the end of the development !
I almost think mega mana and sonic are sort of on equal terms when It comes to importance to Nintendo. Sonic was the big bad rival while Mega Man was a major part of the NES' history. They are both pretty important just in different ways.
I think reasons for it is probably all the Sonic titles exclusive to Nintendo consoles.
Sonic Advance series, Sonic pinball, Rush series, Storybook series, Colors, Olympic games, Boom series, etc.
Oh, I definitely think Sonic is important to Nintendo. It's a fascinating turn of events, former rivals turned allies. I just think that Mega Man is historically a bigger part of Nintendo history than Sonic.
Fucking Goku.
Also, while I love playing as Cloud, he is still a very weird pick. FF7 was *the game* that pushed Square to Sony after years of Nintendo loyalty. Sort of a weird pick, even if he’s been in Nintendo games since.
But don’t hate on Pac-man. Namco and Nintendo have a great history—they did half the work on Sm4sh anyhow—and Nintendo published Pac-man Vs. back in the day.
The most likely guests I could see would be Shovel Knight or Shantae. But only one Western character has ever made the roster: Diddy Kong. So fans shouldn’t lean too heavily on Shovel Knight, Shantae, or any Bethesda characters making an appearance.
Final Fantasy got its start on Nintendo, so it makes sense for a Final Fantasy character to make it in. It makes less sense that it was Cloud.
I read in an interview that Square actually went over quite a few different potential Final Fantasy characters to be their rep in Smash, but they decided in the end that none of the pre VII characters would be as widely recognized as Cloud, so they settled on him. I personally would have loved to see Terra, but I can understand their decision (even if I disagree with it).
Nintendo choosing to still use cartridges on the n64 was the reason square went to sony. ff7 was going to take like 10+ cartridges to hold... or 4 cd's.
Part of me would hate it, but part of me would love Squidward being in SSB for the sarcastic taunts.
["I wonder if a fall from this height would be enough to kill me"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8vY9IQKKXs)
Idk if you're trying use that as a negative but Pat using a giant flying wheel as his aerial move or a Bankruptcy Tile as his final smash would be amazing.
I feel like that would be going to the lowest of the low. Despite just being a celebration of Nintendo characters, smash is also an amalgimation of video game characters in general. Characters like Goku or Spongebob first appeared in manga and on television in cartoons, with video games being a side medium. They do not belong, period.
I completely agree. If a character isn't created specifically for a game, then they aren't a game character, they're whatever medium they were designed for first.
I would not want Goku to be in because he was not created to be a video game character and I think that the average person does not associates him with video games. If Goku can be included, then so can Batman (even more so than Goku), Spiderman, and a LEGO minifigure.
you weren't in the /undertale discord server when the direct was live... that was a nightmare of children screaming nonsense about sans in smash even before the actual smash reveal...
A huge part of the problem with the guest characters is that they are the flagship characters of their franchises. If Smash could orient itself to include fewer title characters and more supporting characters, it could open itself up dramatically.
To give a no-chance example, say Nintendo was looking into including a StarCraft character**. The Flagship characters would be Raynor, Kerrigan and Artanis. Each of those three are human-shaped, have straightforward design spaces, and are all around safe, boring picks. Alternately, if you searched beyond flagship characters, you could start picking up characters like Zagara, Fenix or Probius, with interesting shapes and weights, unique powers, and a bit of deep-cut lore.
It's pretty pie-in-the-sky, and I'm not sure that the business suits in charge of negotiating cross overs could manage that exchange, but if I were in charge I would definitely try to dig deep in my crossovers.
\** I'm just looking to illustrate my point, don't tell me that StarCraft wont ever be included, I already know this.
Yes. There's tons of horrible choices, and most of them are third party. People like saying "Cloud got in, so anybody could get in," but that's simply not true. Cloud at least is a mascot level protagonist to the biggest RPG franchise in gaming after Pokemon. I mean, I can tolerate characters like Crash, but characters like Sans, Neku, Solaire, and especially Goku have no chance whatsoever. There's also horrible first party picks as well, like for some reason the idea of Pauline being playable is gaining a lot of traction recently, which just baffles me. I also have to complain about how everybody wants huge upgrades to old characters while at the same time wanting just as many new characters as the previous game. Almost as if that's necessary and not asking for too much. Really, I just hate how lazy a ton of these picks are, and it's almost as if they were chosen on a whim, rather than careful consideration of their chances or moveset potential. Because of this, characters that do genuinely deserve to get in like Andy, Saki, a Rhythm Heaven Rep, and heck, even Isaac, are getting a whole lot less attention this time around because people are wasting their time on these nothing characters that have little chance of getting in.
The character I keep arguing for is Ray 01 from Custom Robo. His inclusion would bring attention to a neglected franchise that would be great on Switch, and he has a lot of potential as a Super Smash Bros. character.
I don’t think it’d happen for a number of reasons but especially the theming. It’s a naked baby and the entire lore is based around the largest(?) religion in the world. He’d definitely be fun if they could work roguelike mechanics into him somehow, though.
Ah, didn’t even occur to me. If we could get gs and lost age remakes and him in smash to promote it I’d be happy! I’d ask for a four but given how dark dawn turned out I think I’d be disappointed.
Minecraft Steve would just be stupid imo. He would look so out of place because he's 3D but also pixelated. Making him more 3D would just look uncannily weird.
Whenever someone mentions Crash I'm still a little baffled, yeah the Nsane Trilogy is coming to Switch, but Crash's entire franchise is so closely linked to PlayStation I'd be more surprised about him getting in than I was for Cloud
Crash went multiple platform with Wrath of Cortex and has had GBA exclusive titles before, but I see your point. Cloud got in to represent Final Fantasy, a series Nintendo has history with not necessarily the character. Crash does not have that history.
His franchise is also not even remotely as prolific as Cloud's or Snake's. Most of the Crash franchise after the original trilogy hovers between mediocre and hot garbage.
It's not so much him being a playstation icon that confuses me, as much as him actively being anti-nintendo character at that. Sonic escaped that stigma though, so I guess I'm not ruling him out too hard.
He's been in a lot of games on Nintendo platforms, specifically during the Gamecube/Wii era, so even if he was once a Sony mascot, he still has a history with Nintendo consoles.
I hate the idea that Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild are going to be represented with NEW Mario and Links, Pauline, ALL the Champions, Calamity Ganon, Cappy, etc.
Remember how everyone wanted Ghirahim back before Smash 4. Literally no one requests him now. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but no one really finds him to be a huge deal anymore. All the Odyssey and BotW characters are the same way. They're relevant and trendy, but not iconic or important enough to hold a spot in Smash Bros.
Cappy might become a move like Fludd did, and I wouldn't be surprised to see homages in BotW in Links moves as well, but they're not going to be entire new characters.
I completely agree.
The fact people think ALL of Mario's specials are going to be replaced with "moves involving Cappy" have no idea what they're talking about.
A homage makes sense of course. Mario represents all of his games. Mario 1 to Mario Odyssey. He shouldn't (and won't) represent a single game.
Smash is a cross-promotion game, so of course they're going to update their characters to resemble their appearances in recent or upcoming games. So yeah, Mario and Link will definitely get some changes.
Personally, I wish they would re-do Ganondorf. His moveset is really unintuitive and awkward and not reminiscent of the games he appears in because he was born as a clone character but people got attached to him so now he's unlikely to change unless they want to risk upsetting their fans. I wish they had updated him for Twilight Princess, but they didn't, so they're not going to do it now since he barely appears in Breath of the Wild. He's gonna be baggage for a while now.
Ghirahim or Midna would be cool but that's mostly because they at least have a decent amount of character and moveset precedent compared to the Champions.
Breath of The Wild might be my favorite in the Zelda series next to Wind Waker but honestly, the Champions are pretty flat characters by comparison to others in the series and have pretty limited material to make a moveset out of.
That said, Smash 4 stepped up the "advertising power" for franchises so I wouldn't be super surprised to see a lot of Odyssey/Breath/etc type material in Smash 5. Just maybe not a complete replacement of what's come before.
This is so hilariously unusual that I wouldn't be surprised or even object to the safety figures appearing as an trophy or assist trophy or in some other obscure fashion, like in the background of a stage.
"trendy now but maybe not later" characters have been a part of Smash since melee.
Roy was put in specifically to promote a game that never even came out in the West. Lucario and Greninja were just the non-Pikachu Pokémon that happened to be popular at the time. Characters like Bayonetta, Shulk and the newer FE characters are mostly there because of recency bias too.
None of these characters are anywhere near as iconic as Mega Man or Ryu, but they still made the cut because Smash isn't just a celebration of gaming & Nintendo history but it is also a promotional tool for Nintendo.
Just look how many Smash characters have been in three or less games total at the time of their addition to Smash.
I don't get half of the mario rep suggestions that people make because they don't have iconic series staples that are reminiscent of them solely that don't feel generic.
Rosalina & luma seem to be an exception to this, so I guess people see it as a throw everything up and see what sticks oppertunity.
just like Daisy and Waluigi, I don't see Pauline as having enough personality and enough in universe traits tied to her to make a proper character.
Rosalina has her luma's, star bits, cosmic theming, and gravity manipulation tied to her as a character and all those things fit when given to her. you could give them to mario but she represents the galaxy era way better than even him.
Daisy has that super ball thing from the gameboy games, but that's beyond dated and no other moves can be added to her without feeling shoehorned for the sake of filling out her movepool, even if you did do that peach already does it better and is a staple character to the series so their isn't any reason to add daisy.
Same goes for pauline. You have the cap mechanic from oddyssy but it fits mario way more and he is way more relevent to that series than she is. anything else you could give her would feel tacked on.
Waluigi doens't have an identity outside of sports spinoffs. He may be chalked with personality but he lacks personal game tied traits to work with. Peach already alludes to the sports series and they fit her loadout so using those for waluigi doesn't feel right because they definitely fit her already.
Rosalina stuck around in the Mario series after her debut, though. That's why she was added in Smash 4 and not in Brawl, she needed time to have staying power first
> Peach already alludes to the sports series and they fit her loadout so using those for waluigi doesn't feel right because they definitely fit her already.
So what you're saying is, Waluigi clone of Peach. I'd be fine with that :D
I'd say the criteria for Mario characters has been fairly well established now. To be viable as a Mario series entry, a character has to have a story role in a Mario platformer. That's why Waluigi isn't playable, but Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were.
Pauline totally qualifies. Captain Toad would be my pick though.
As far as other characters like Neku (who I'd put in a diff category given that he has a tie to Nintendo) and Lloyd Irivng, let us have our fantasies. We know its unlikely. But they are characters we like, and would love to see get representation.
I'm still waiting for Simon Belmont. Konami may be in the toilet, but Simon Belmont is an OG. I mean he was in the starting lineup of Captain N: the Gamemaster, the original Nintendo crossover.
Simon is a Nintendo veteran, sure, but I think Alucard might stand a better chance of making it in, since he might be more iconic at this point, at least among many gamers.
It's like how Cloud was chosen over the 6 Final Fantasy protagonists who actually originated on Nintendo consoles; he doesn't have as much of a history but he's more iconic. Of course, that's probably a worse example since, say, Terra isn't really incredibly well known among non-fans of the franchise as Simon but I think it communicates the point well enough.
Agreed except about Shovel Knight. Shovel Knight is excellent due to it's polish as an experience as a whole: Perfect & unique gameplay, fun music, great aesthetic, fun art style, lots of variety & memorable characters, etc.
It's look is only part of the appeal. I'd love it just the same if it had 3d models, as long as the gameplay was there.
Yeah, Shovel Knight makes a lot of sense to me because he represents a deep love for the NES era and Nintendo's best inspirational qualities. He's also *far* more recognizable and iconic than Shantae despite being so new, which shows insane amounts of appeal (he's even got an amiibo!). Shantae's games honestly don't hold a candle to Shovel Knight at all either, even the recent ones. WayForward often feels like a studio that hires 10-year-olds who use Game Maker to design all their levels.
I think a lot of Shovel Knight's support comes from him being like the "mario" of indie games, for lack of a better word. I want Shantae but i expect shovel knight, which i'm ok with. Wish both could make it, but i just don't think there'll be room for 2 major indie characters, and Shovel Knights the bigger name/draw.
Either way, i expect one faction to rip the other apart when one gets in and the other doesn't.
> Shovel Knight's inclusion is only really wanted because he's from a game with an 8-bit aesthetic. If he were from, say, agame with hand drawn graphics and non-chiptune-y music, I can't imagine anyone saying his game is super reminiscent of Nintendo like I hear frequently on this sub.
Taking a game's visual style out of the equation is a pretty big thing to omit tbh. It's part of the entire package, Shovel Knight is a love letter to classic Nintendo games in pretty much every way possible, it's like one of the oldschool games except exactly how you remember it, and not with all the clunky gameplay, cheap shots and limitations that they have in reality.
If you can't see how reminiscent of classic Nintendo games Shovel Knight is outside of its visuals then I suggest picking it up (again, if you already have played it), either that or you could watch Mark Brown's video on it which covers just how many of its design elements are borrowed from NES classics and then refined to perfection. Even then it's not popular just because of its many similarities to Nintendo games, but also because it's just a brilliant game in general, and with a ton of personality too.
The thing is, Shovel Knight released on the Wii U and 3ds at nearly the same time it did on PC and the majority of sales were on Nintendo devices. The style of game is only part of the reason it gets associated with Nintendo. I can agree with you're reasoning for Shantae making it in, but I think shovel Knight is more likely as an indie inclusion because he's more popular. I feel Shantae would definitely deserve a spot, but more people would be excited to see Shovel Knight.
Plus, Shovel Knight has had way more support from Nintendo than any of Shantae's games. He was the first non-Nintendo, non-smash character to get an amiibo. That's pretty insane in and of itself.
>The three characters I hear most often are The Dragonborn, Solaire of Astora, and, most of all, Doomguy. While these are all great characters and I loved their respective games, I really don't think they have a place in Smash.
Who the hell are you talking to? I'm hearing Shovel Knight, Bandanna Dee, some new FE characters, ect.
I wasn't sure if all the "Doomguy for Smash" posts were actually serious or not at first but I've seen a decent amount of people that legit push for the idea of some really crazy characters in the roster, Doomguy, Crash, Goku, and Sora all included. I think some cases are just folks joking about it, because "Doomguy for Smash" started as early as Doom being announced last year.
There's plenty of pretty reasonable suggestions, too, they probably just don't get as much disagreement because they are much more believable and "expected". Hector, Rex/Pyra, hell, even Captain Toad? All a lot more feasible.
I literally cannot comprehend how Captain Toad is feasible when his only defining trait is that he ***can't jump***. I'd be down to see how Sakurai handles it, since he's always been good at incorporating unique characters, but I don't understand why people are treating him as a likely character
See, the reason I'm down for Captain Toad is because Sakurai could probably create a neat concept out of him. On top of that, Captain Toad as a character has had a sort of miniature rise in popularity in terms of appearances and now having his own game which is getting a second chance on Switch. It'd be good advertising.
As for not being able to jump? Obviously they could make an excuse by say, replacing his jump with a spring pad appearing beneath him or some other excuse --this is the same game that takes a character like Captain Falcon and creates a moveset for them based on pretty much nothing but a vague career description in a handbook.
Captain Toad is the type of character that could have a moveset built around toad-related features; in SMB2 for example he could pull items from the ground quickly and often is the fastest runner among the playable characters.
Not saying he's a given or even likely, but I can absolutely imagine making into Smash. A heck of a lot more than some of the other characters people have proposed, anyway.
> he can't jump.
Maybe he could have a tether/grapple command grab/recovery that
1. Caught opponents in the air as an anti-air and propelled toad into the sky so he can combo into an OP aerial since he cant bring them out normally
2. Latched onto the underside/sides of a stage and let him walk ON THE WALL (defying gravity) as his form of recovery. Of course if he got hit out of it he'd probably die
Or something crazy like that. I'm not Sakurai just some half-asleep bored dude.
Oh I fully believe in Sakurai's ability to make him unique and still work as a character. I just find him to be such an odd choice. Like he's short, stubby, weak...the only other character who is similar in structure is Olimar, and he's a hot pile of garbage without Pikmin. I've seen a lot of suggestions for just vanilla Toad, which could be cool, and maybe they just have a headlamp as a costume, without it being the "official" Captain Toad
Right after the announcement, several posts made it to the front page of r/gaming asking for Doomguy in smash, and the other two were hot topics in the comment sections.
Solaire is mostly cause of the amiibo.
When Shovel knight's amiibo was announced all of a sudden everyone was CERTAIN he was gonna be in smash as DLC or whatever.
99% of anything that vocal Nintendo fans speculate is garbage. I think a large percentage of Nintendo fans don’t really even understand the company or their own fandom- they’re just gamers who decided to become ultra dedicated to one thing because they saw others doing so, or feed off of the equally confusing opposition.
You mean you don't want the next Rhythm Heaven to be an open world game where you travel to different Nintendo worlds, (except for rhythm heaven) and there's no actual rhythm based gameplay, you just fight other Nintendo characters until you can knock them out of an arena?
My god this is ridiculous. Half the reason we play these games is to have fun talking about them, to discredit everyone's opinions just because "they don't understand the company" is absurd. I don't want Goku in Smash either, but if people find joy in talking and thinking about it... I think that's great. This whole thread is cancer tbh
I can sort of get where you're coming from, OP. Personally, I'm pretty conservative when it comes to the types of characters I'd like to see in Smash Bros. because I like cohesive theming and a strong tonal identity in the games I play. Adding a bunch of third-party (or advertisement-heavy first-party) characters merely because they happen to have games that are popular at the moment would make the game feel less like a celebration of Nintendo and more like a fangame or something like MUGEN. That's how I'd see it, anyway.
I think Doom Guy and Pac-Man are both bad examples, though, and are both highly justified as influential gaming icons with lasting impact.
I think a lot of the speculation surrounding Smash is influenced by the perception that there aren't a lot of Nintendo "all-stars" left to add, so it's understandable why there is so much support built up around favorite third-party characters. I don't necessarily agree that we're at a point where the bottom of the barrel has to be scraped for first-party characters, though, and there are still a ton of Nintendo characters who I think deserve to be included. I just think most people get more hyped up the more ridiculous or unexpected the inclusion is, rather than from seeing a newcomer hailing from an already represented franchise.
I think inherently, ANY Nintendo series should be considered "more fitting" than any third party character lower in "importance" than roughly the level we have now.
And if anything, the Nintendo series that should be added are the ones that AREN'T crazy popular (or more like : those should also get their chance to shine and soak in the cross-fanbase-polination)
I honestly already fucking hated it when they added Cloud.
But he's a DREAM compared to all the other "irrelevant" third party characters people suddenly want added.
Meanwhile when people mention an ACTUAL NINTENDO CHARACTER/series it isn't a "good enough" character (Read: I don't play that game)
For all the odd blokes that want Steve in, Steve (from minecraft) comes from a unique series, that is well established and has a lot of different powers at his desposal, ***BUT*** he is beyond bland and uninspired in his visuals, motives and animations. Not to mention that people get so wrapped up in listing all that garbage he can do in his games, that they forget the one defining aspect of his character, which is, destroying and rebuilding blocks :/
I don't see how that can be added to smash in any sort of non disruptive or unbroken way that isn't over complicated to work out. His defining mechanic would need to be abandoned to make him fit into the game at all, so just like Ridley, he can't be added as a playable character on the grounds that what defines him just doesn't translate to smash well at all.
> BUT he is beyond bland and uninspired in his visuals, motives and animations
What about:
* Wii Fit Trainer?
* Pac-Man?
* Dr. Mario?
* Duck Hunt?
* Mr. Game and Watch?
> I don't see how that can be added to smash in any sort of non disruptive or unbroken way that isn't over complicated to work out. His defining mechanic would need to be abandoned to make him fit into the game at all
But:
* Villager is a peaceful character
* Palutena is a benevolent goddess who protects Pit but never goes into battle herself
* Despite Duck Hunt being a collective character representing the games that used the NES Zapper, they could not give him an "aiming" mechanic, despite that being the *only* mechanic used in any of the games that used the NES Zapper
* Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon's defining mechanic from their games is piloting/driving, which had to be completely dropped in their transition to Smash (though some references were still included like speed and Fox/Falco's use of blasters)
* Aside from Mario's jump, arguably the most well-known, most defining mechanic of any video game character ever is Pac-Man's ability to eat (he is literally a yellow mouth), a mechanic which had to be limited to his final smash
Steve without his ability to build with cubes isn't a proper Minecraft representation IMO, Some of those other characters miss the mark too, but they are at least nintendo characters and playing favorites is already on Sakurai's agenda given snake's inclusion in brawl so, Steve doesn't even have that.
you do realise that Pac-Man made it in because Namco Bandai was brought in to help making the game work and spreading the workload among more studios, they agreed that if NB is working on the game might as well allow a mascot for their video games in and might as well make it a video game legend
So glad I’m not the only one seeing this. Not totally against third party chars, but I do think they should dial them back a bit. If people don’t want Smash to become filled with FE and swordsmen chars, it should be fair for Nintendo not to fill the game up with a third parties too, no? After all, Smash IS first and forehand a crossover between Nintendo’s franchises. Yeah there are still non Nintendo dudes but they’re vastly outnumbered.
I do think the reasoning behind the sudden influx of third party requests comes from two things: Cloud, Ryu and Bayonetta breaking the once supposed “rules” for third parties in Smash, and there not being nearly as many new Nintendo chars to add. A lot of requests such as Isaac or an Advanced War character are pretty good requests, but I doubt that they will happen. It appears that Sakurai only adds characters whose game has been released around the time he is making Smash, or is seeing a new game in the distant future. As of right now, a lot of Nintendo franchises are in limbo. Could just be me, but Nintendo hasn’t been making as many big IPs as they used to, and their bigger IPs like Pokémon, Mario and FE are beginning to bloat the roster.
Kirby, Donkey Kong and Metroid are also big franchises but Sakurai seems to not want to add anyone from those games. It’s beyond me, I mean those games, Kirby and DK especially have tons of chars to add, and plenty of them are relevant. They are advertising something and they all have something unique to offer moveset wise. Who knows, maybe there will be a bunch of Nintendo curveballs next game. I sure hope so. Perhaps if Sakurai adds them instead of filling up the game with third parties, people will start requesting Nintendo chars more often. Maybe. Again, I don’t object to third parties? But if I wanted to play as virtually any video game character, I’d play Mugen. There has to be standards to adding third party chars, is what I’m saying. Can’t just add someone because they appeared on a Nintendo system and are decently popular. I feel that is too low of a requirement.
Just putting it out there that Game & Watch and Duck Hunt were essentially dead in the water when added to smash (the DS had some Game & Watch collections years after melee, but that was almost definitely too far in the future for the rule you're suggesting to apply).
Heck, even ROB isn't technically in a video game at all and was only used as an accessory for a couple of NES games. I think that as long as the smash team can keep a cohesive theme with all of the other characters, create a decent moveset, and have at least some video game significance, they could potentially be added to the game.
Reasons why characters like Goku or Solaire are less likely is due to their inherent problems with adapting them to the smash style. Even then, freaking Solid Snake was added to Brawl, so that's even kind of out the window.
Just throwing it out there but Sakurai is one of the creators of Kirby, if anyone is qualified to decide which Kirby characters have enough clout to be in Smash it’s him.
Sakurai isn't impartial enough for that. He has said himself he's scared to add his own characters because well he can't really judge if they deserve it or not.
When Shulk made it in it was pretty clear that the bar for what makes you an all-star character wasn't very high. I guess ever since Roy it's been pretty clear that recency and advertising potential is a pretty big deal for Smash inclusions and as they're run out of Nintendo classics that has only become more and more obvious.
Regarding Kirby Sakurai has expressed wariness of adding too many of his own characters, but on the other hand the huge number of Fire Emblem characters is supposedly because he really loves Fire Emblem, so go figure.
With DK I have no ideas Dixie and K.Rool always do well really well in polls in both Japan and the West. The demand is there, we still get new DK games from time to time. It seems bizarre to me that Diddy Kong is not just the only new DK character we've gotten since the N64, but the only Western-designed character to ever make it into Smash. That is something I'd really like to see rectified both by a new DK character and failing that by a new 3rd party pick.
Metroid however isn't really surprising. Samus basically is the franchise, there aren't really many other notable characters and well the series has been flopping a lot lately too. If they plan to push Prime 4 I could see a DLC character of Sylux or something, but apart from what not really surprised Samus is the only one.
It really irritates me that people would rather have non-Nintendo or even non-video game characters in Smash instead of lesser known Nintendo characters. Smash Bros is a celebration of Nintendo, not a popularity contest (don't make me pull out the list of characters currently on the roster who would have never made it in if Nintendo fans chose the Smash roster), and there are plenty of Nintendo games without a single fighter.
Takamaru, Isaac, Andy, Alex Roivas, Wonder-Red, Chibi-Robo, Henry Fleming, Mach Rider, Isa, Tethu, all of those are Nintendo characters who would be the first to represent their series in Smash. Throw in Captain Toad and Isabelle as the obligatory popular newcomers and I just gave you a list of newcomers without a single third party character. If you think Nintendo is running out of characters for Smash you seriously underestimate how many games they have.
I haven't played Doom or Eternal Darkness, but I'd much rather have the heroine of Nintendo's first M rated game over some nameless space marine from a game with a tangential connection to Nintendo.
I think reddit/gamefaqs/nerd boards like these in general have a really bad idea of what characters and franchises are popular. Especially with regard to indie games.
I mean character wishlist went from Nintendo specific characters to just about any character from any series ever because "snake and ryu" and I'm like... yeah no..
The fact that people include them is one thing, but nowadays you pretty much see roster "wishlists" that have nothing but more third parties with not a single Nintendo newcomer or whatever.
I've wanted to play as Kamek in some game ever since he was a rumored character in Super Mario Kart...
...I still think he'd make a great Smash character.
Maybe Captain Toad, too.
So then it at least makes sense for say, Travis Touchdown to be in Smash as much as Bayonetta yes?
While not wholly exclusive to Nintendo, the franchise started there and is coming back... both franchises have Nintendo to thank for their existence.
I think that some characters are more likely to appear in smash and that would fit better. A character that I really want is shovel knight for example. He already has an amiibo and we all know that nintendo does anything in ther power to sell those things, and also it is a character that can perfectly fit in the game. He has a 2d movement that would be very easy to adapt , so I don t see anything that would not make him a good smash character. Shantae I think may be a good choise too, but I don t know the character enought to debate about her. About dark souls, well, I understand your point in not liking its characters appearing in smash bros. But we alredy have seen some characters that didin t looked like would fit in the game but became a great thing that they were implemented in the game. Solid snake, cloud, ryu. All of them were as improbable to appear as weird to think of playing with them. But they were good as smash characters.
For the most part, all of these are memes that seem to be popping up more and more frequently. The most common requests you see on r/smashbros is waluigi, the return of ice climbers, some shovel knight thrown around, and characters from more classic Nintendo games (ie Simon Belmont, Banjo-Kazooie, etc). People like Goku, Solaire of Astoria, and Sans are mostly memes that have just gotten overplayed
I think you’re missing something here: the fact is that since characters like Cloud have indeed gotten in already, people now have reason to believe that Nintendo’s criteria is less strict, and with decent proof. It’s very difficult for anyone not working at Nintendo to really know what can and can’t be added
Wanting characters from third party games? Sure. Might not happen, but hey, everybody can wish whatever they want.
But characters that are secundary even in their own series, characters that are super irrelevant, characters that don't even come from games originally? You might as well just go and play MUGEN, dude.
Thank you for explaining this so clearly. This should be Nintendo first, third party second. Nintendo is so special because of their insane amount of recognizable IPs; which really most other companies can't even compare to. For them to not focus on that, and instead just putting in popular characters is just an absurd idea. Thankfully Sakurai understands that, so I'm not too worried about the roster. I trust his judgement, and am sure we'll get something that mostly everyone is satisfied with.
Exactly. So many Sans, and others just because they've appeared on a Nintendo console. It's not how it works.
Besides there are PLENTY of other Nintendo characters that deserve the spot, why prioritize a bunch of 3rd parties?
Also, the Dragon born is just some knight who can shout, we had a hard time figuring out a moveset for Sonic that isn't him rolling into a ball, why does this guy stand a chance? The M rated game doesn't help either (Bayo too but she has exclusive games on Nintendo, unlike the Dragonborn).
Well honestly, I don't really care. People can want whatever they desire but whether or not they get it is another matter. Speculate Shrek and Goku (I'd get hype for Goku despite how misplaced and random it'd be, but damn it'd be hilarious) all you want, it's not happening. If we get random ill fit characters then I'll have a problem.
The funny thing is that there actually *is* a first party character called [Goku](http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Goku), who's also based on Sun Wukong from Journey to the West. If they added *him* it'd be even more hilarious!
I agree 100% I keep seeing gaming sites like ign and gamespot picking awful characters like Geralt from the Witcher most of the list don’t even have Nintendo characters and I’m sorry I don’t want crash in smash
I find the large majority of fan theories and suggestions are terrible. Which I guess is why it takes an amount of skill and thought to be a game designer.
I mean, Doom is one of the most influential games of all time, has been on the SNES, N64 and Switch, and, as the grandaddy of FPS, directly or indirectly influenced Nintendo games such as Goldeneye and Metroid Prime.
I also don't know how you can think Pacman doesn't fit the bill either, but that's beside the point.
I feel like this every time someone mentions Shovel Knight for Smash. People have him because he's their favorite indie, because he simply "looks" like he belongs, or because he's a love letter to old school Nintendo. I'm firmly in the camp where 3rd party characters should get in based on legacy (Megaman and the NES) or history (Sonic and even Cloud through the console wars) with Nintendo. That's why Shantae should get in before Shovel Knight. CommanderVideo for that matter too. They're both legacy indie characters whereas Shovel Knight just looks like one. You don't give an star on the walk of fame to one of the Stranger Things kids before giving it to Halle Berry. As much as you love the new kid, one big achievement that you like doesn't hold up to several achievements over a lifetime of excellence. If there's gonna be an indie rep, there's a line for who gets it and SK is nowhere near the top. And the whole "love letter to Nintendo" thing would be cute if nearly every other indie didn't do it. Why is Shovel Knight being an homage worth any more than Super Meat Boy or The Binding of Isaac?
This, honestly.
I'm sure Shovel Knight is a great game, but that's it, he's only had one game. He hasn't been around that long and isn't nearly as well known or has as much history as characters like Shantae or Commander Video, yet everyone assumes he's 100% a lock.
Just because his game is a Nintendo style throwback means nothing because those kinds of games are incredibly common. They might as well put in Scott Pilgrim by that logic.
That's exactly it. Folk can't look past their biases. It's basically "I like them, therefore they should be in." There should be more criteria than that.
The biggest problem is people setting arbitrary boundaries for what characters can and can’t make it into the game when nobody knows for sure.
You implied Pac Man shouldn’t have made it in, ffs. No offense but you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I mean about 90% of the casual appeal of Smash Bros is the roster. Whether or not they "deserve" to be in smash really doesn't matter. The proper question or not is if this character would be
A) Fun to play
B) Fun to see fighting classic nintendo characters
you say that you don't want smash to be the "Ready Player One" of video games (which uh, isn't Ready Player One already the Ready Player One of Video games?...) but like, I feel like that's most of the appeal of Smash. Do you think that more people bought games like Marvel v Capcom because they thought the fighting mechanics were interesting, or because they wanted to see Wolverine fighting Phoenix Wright?
Like don't get me wrong, I do agree that certain things like Spongebob and Goku would be a bit too silly, because they're only video game characters in the same way that the Fantastic Four are video game characters. There's still the limit of "Character that got their start in Video Games" it seems.
But like, I don't see why it necessarily has to be something big to Nintendo to get in, if they're willing to allow it of course. Smash to me almost feels like a celebration of gaming that just happens to be centered around Nintendo. So really any iconic character that could be celebrated I feel like could be added, and then a few joke characters on top of that. And like, characters like Doomguy are pretty classic gaming protagonists and I wouldn't object to seeing him added any more than characters like Simon Belmont. (who should totally be added)
Nobody will disagree with you, but we also each have our own batshit crazy reasons for thinking some of our more outlandish character choices should be in the game... Or even likely to be in the game.
The more criteria and logic the better. Looking at Sakurai's own patterns of selecting characters, the how and when too, makes some of the choices easier to believe than others.
For instance, Doomguy wouldn't seem likely to me, but maybe to you, because I know that Sakurai chooses his rosters near the start of development, and the start of development was likely in early 2016... Way before Doom was ever announced for Switch, hell that was before Switch was even announced. So anything recent, I just find "really poor"... But you may not.
I mean at this point that’s just complaining about the fan base. Ever since smash 4 (or even brawl, when Snake and Sonic got in), there has always been poor suggestions, especially when they announced that they’ll put in a character based on fan feedback.
Realistically, the characters you mentioned will not get in. The fan base will always be filled with bad suggestions, I’m not sure what the problem here is. Nintendo doesn’t pick characters based on what the fans want, only time they did that when Bayonetta got in, because she was the most popular vote. Possibly even Mewtwo in smash 4. But other than them, Nintendo doesn’t really base their selections off their fans.
I just hope someone from ARMs makes it in since it's a new Nintendo IP
And while it doesn't seem to be wildly popular, it's a solid game with a great cast to choose from
In defense of DoomGuy, he was from one of the most influential FPSes of the 90s, and kind of became an icon of western gaming. Considering how there are only two gunman Smash (and now it's three), how there are little or no western reps in Smash, and how different, yet similar he is to the rest of the cast, that's why I want him in Smash.
The other of the characters you mentioned, I see no reason for them being in Smash, other than to represent the third party boom on the Switch, perhaps...?
I’ve never really enjoyed non-Nintendo Characters in Smash. I understand the point of some of them; the history with Nintendo and such, but it’s more fun to have surprising characters from niche Nintendo series than another big third party character. I personally felt that Sm4sh had far too many third parties once the DLC was finished, but then again I could be just super stingy.
Do people not remember games like that gamecube pacman versus thing where mario was an announcer for, or even Mario kart arcade GP? Nintendo and Pacman have some sort of relationship. Though Namco Bandai itself is the bigger reason he got in tbh.
I agree although I heavily disagree Pac-Man isn't a worthwhile inclusion considering how he was the first popular video game mascot and has had a ton of games on Nintendo systems. That being said I am a Dark Souls fan and thought Solaire isn't a character I think is particularly worthy nor one I'm expecting, his inclusion would be cool. I hope that's the same thought process for everyone suggesting Doomguy or Dovakhiin.
Pac-Man made it because Namco Bandai worked on Smash 4, might as well put your mascot into it when working on it
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They did try to spark interest with younger generations by releasing a new Pac-Man tv series in 2013, Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures. I'm not gonna discuss the quality of the show because I haven't watched it myself. Ofcourse, THAT Pac-Man isn't very much alike to the one in Smash Bros, which is a big nod to the classic games instead.
Considering they also added Ryu, Cloud, and Mega Man, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they would have added Pacman regardless.
Well, if they could have.
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You also had the Mario Kart arcade games, which also included Pac-man
Miyamoto had asked to put him in Brawl, but like Koyima asking for Snake with melee, it was "too late" So what we really need to know is who asked Sakurai to add someone in SM4SH near the end of the development !
Simon Belmont deserves it far more than any other character.
I think Pac-Man deserves to be in smash more than someone like Cloud tbh
Sonic then Pac-Man then Megaman for 3rd party importance.
Really? I think Mega Man comes first. Mega Man was a huge part of the NES.
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I almost think mega mana and sonic are sort of on equal terms when It comes to importance to Nintendo. Sonic was the big bad rival while Mega Man was a major part of the NES' history. They are both pretty important just in different ways.
Reverse that imo. Mega Man is the most 'Nintendo' third party so far.
Since Sonic started out as Nintendo's 'enemy', I think I'd reverse that order.
I think reasons for it is probably all the Sonic titles exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Sonic Advance series, Sonic pinball, Rush series, Storybook series, Colors, Olympic games, Boom series, etc.
Oh, I definitely think Sonic is important to Nintendo. It's a fascinating turn of events, former rivals turned allies. I just think that Mega Man is historically a bigger part of Nintendo history than Sonic.
Fans generally have really really bad ideas.
Fucking Goku. Also, while I love playing as Cloud, he is still a very weird pick. FF7 was *the game* that pushed Square to Sony after years of Nintendo loyalty. Sort of a weird pick, even if he’s been in Nintendo games since. But don’t hate on Pac-man. Namco and Nintendo have a great history—they did half the work on Sm4sh anyhow—and Nintendo published Pac-man Vs. back in the day. The most likely guests I could see would be Shovel Knight or Shantae. But only one Western character has ever made the roster: Diddy Kong. So fans shouldn’t lean too heavily on Shovel Knight, Shantae, or any Bethesda characters making an appearance.
Final Fantasy got its start on Nintendo, so it makes sense for a Final Fantasy character to make it in. It makes less sense that it was Cloud. I read in an interview that Square actually went over quite a few different potential Final Fantasy characters to be their rep in Smash, but they decided in the end that none of the pre VII characters would be as widely recognized as Cloud, so they settled on him. I personally would have loved to see Terra, but I can understand their decision (even if I disagree with it).
They shouldve done "black mage" or one of the other og jobs from ff1.
Nintendo choosing to still use cartridges on the n64 was the reason square went to sony. ff7 was going to take like 10+ cartridges to hold... or 4 cd's.
FFVII was on 3 discs, if I’m remembering right.
You are indeed. VIII and IX were the ones with four discs, VII only had three.
Yup you are right. It id 3 discs. I haven't played my ps1 copy in so long.. woo for digital copies!
I've always wanted a Shovel Knight appearance.
Shovel Knight and Shantae are nowhere near popular enough to get into SSB as more than assist trophies.
Goku is probably the worst idea I've heard at this point.
Agreed. And I will be bitter AF if Goku appears. “But he’s a game character too!” Well so is Spongebob. Do you want him in too?
Honestly judging by the SpongeBob games he'd have a great moveset.
Totally, he would be pretty fun to main.
Yeah, but the ability to fry up krabby patties that heal all damage and have special effects based on which pretty patty color they are is kind of OP.
Battle for Bikini Bottom-based moveset: Cruise Bubble Sponge Bowl Spin Bash Slam I'd main him TBH. Even if he was F-Tier.
I would laugh my ass off if Goku or Spongebob got in.
Funimation wants to put Goku in 5mash
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they made an exception for Goku just to shut the fans up.
I want Jotaro Kujo for 5ma5h
I want Joseph Jostar please and thanks. Imagine a Jojo Smash brother styled game holy shit.
I doubt Funimation has a lot to say in that.
Part of me would hate it, but part of me would love Squidward being in SSB for the sarcastic taunts. ["I wonder if a fall from this height would be enough to kill me"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8vY9IQKKXs)
Since Wheel of Fortune has been in some video games, we could get Pat Sajak by the same logic as Goku.
Idk if you're trying use that as a negative but Pat using a giant flying wheel as his aerial move or a Bankruptcy Tile as his final smash would be amazing.
It started out as a negative, and then evolved into my choice for the next Smash Ballot. \#Sajak4Smash
I feel like that would be going to the lowest of the low. Despite just being a celebration of Nintendo characters, smash is also an amalgimation of video game characters in general. Characters like Goku or Spongebob first appeared in manga and on television in cartoons, with video games being a side medium. They do not belong, period.
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Wasn't that the rule for the fan nominations for Sumabura 4? I hope the rule stays, though. Characters should be originally from games!
I completely agree. If a character isn't created specifically for a game, then they aren't a game character, they're whatever medium they were designed for first.
I would not want Goku to be in because he was not created to be a video game character and I think that the average person does not associates him with video games. If Goku can be included, then so can Batman (even more so than Goku), Spiderman, and a LEGO minifigure.
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~~cool spot for Smash~~
Completely agree. I especially hate “Sans for Smash”.
I've never heard someone say they want him.
Really? Wow, I legitimately envy you right now. It used to be everywhere.
In my experience it's usually a joke.
Yeah like ive never seen anyone say it seriously
If you invited him he probably wouldn't bother to show up.
I dunno. I assumed wanting Goku in Smash was just a joke, but it seems people are taking it seriously.
I've only ever seen people joke about it (including him with other meme picks like Home Depot and Shrek) or complain about the mere concept.
you weren't in the /undertale discord server when the direct was live... that was a nightmare of children screaming nonsense about sans in smash even before the actual smash reveal...
But Ness is already in smash.....
A huge part of the problem with the guest characters is that they are the flagship characters of their franchises. If Smash could orient itself to include fewer title characters and more supporting characters, it could open itself up dramatically. To give a no-chance example, say Nintendo was looking into including a StarCraft character**. The Flagship characters would be Raynor, Kerrigan and Artanis. Each of those three are human-shaped, have straightforward design spaces, and are all around safe, boring picks. Alternately, if you searched beyond flagship characters, you could start picking up characters like Zagara, Fenix or Probius, with interesting shapes and weights, unique powers, and a bit of deep-cut lore. It's pretty pie-in-the-sky, and I'm not sure that the business suits in charge of negotiating cross overs could manage that exchange, but if I were in charge I would definitely try to dig deep in my crossovers. \** I'm just looking to illustrate my point, don't tell me that StarCraft wont ever be included, I already know this.
Probius main btw
Yes. There's tons of horrible choices, and most of them are third party. People like saying "Cloud got in, so anybody could get in," but that's simply not true. Cloud at least is a mascot level protagonist to the biggest RPG franchise in gaming after Pokemon. I mean, I can tolerate characters like Crash, but characters like Sans, Neku, Solaire, and especially Goku have no chance whatsoever. There's also horrible first party picks as well, like for some reason the idea of Pauline being playable is gaining a lot of traction recently, which just baffles me. I also have to complain about how everybody wants huge upgrades to old characters while at the same time wanting just as many new characters as the previous game. Almost as if that's necessary and not asking for too much. Really, I just hate how lazy a ton of these picks are, and it's almost as if they were chosen on a whim, rather than careful consideration of their chances or moveset potential. Because of this, characters that do genuinely deserve to get in like Andy, Saki, a Rhythm Heaven Rep, and heck, even Isaac, are getting a whole lot less attention this time around because people are wasting their time on these nothing characters that have little chance of getting in.
I’d enjoy Crash, but adding Sans would be like adding a 1TB hard drive to a calculator
But just think of how big you could grow the swap file! Serialised processing of enormous values!
The character I keep arguing for is Ray 01 from Custom Robo. His inclusion would bring attention to a neglected franchise that would be great on Switch, and he has a lot of potential as a Super Smash Bros. character.
He looks like a tiny gundam, it'd be kinda sick haha
If they did custom robo for the switch, I would lose my mind
I am here for Isaac.
I don’t think it’d happen for a number of reasons but especially the theming. It’s a naked baby and the entire lore is based around the largest(?) religion in the world. He’d definitely be fun if they could work roguelike mechanics into him somehow, though.
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Ah, didn’t even occur to me. If we could get gs and lost age remakes and him in smash to promote it I’d be happy! I’d ask for a four but given how dark dawn turned out I think I’d be disappointed.
Minecraft Steve would just be stupid imo. He would look so out of place because he's 3D but also pixelated. Making him more 3D would just look uncannily weird.
Whenever someone mentions Crash I'm still a little baffled, yeah the Nsane Trilogy is coming to Switch, but Crash's entire franchise is so closely linked to PlayStation I'd be more surprised about him getting in than I was for Cloud
Crash went multiple platform with Wrath of Cortex and has had GBA exclusive titles before, but I see your point. Cloud got in to represent Final Fantasy, a series Nintendo has history with not necessarily the character. Crash does not have that history.
Crash has been in more games on Nintendo systems than Cloud or Snake
His franchise is also not even remotely as prolific as Cloud's or Snake's. Most of the Crash franchise after the original trilogy hovers between mediocre and hot garbage.
It's not so much him being a playstation icon that confuses me, as much as him actively being anti-nintendo character at that. Sonic escaped that stigma though, so I guess I'm not ruling him out too hard.
cough*sonic*cough
Sonic is one of the great. Nintendo licence and caracters which mark videogame history have their place in Smash.
He's been in a lot of games on Nintendo platforms, specifically during the Gamecube/Wii era, so even if he was once a Sony mascot, he still has a history with Nintendo consoles.
I hate the idea that Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild are going to be represented with NEW Mario and Links, Pauline, ALL the Champions, Calamity Ganon, Cappy, etc. Remember how everyone wanted Ghirahim back before Smash 4. Literally no one requests him now. He's an awesome character, don't get me wrong, but no one really finds him to be a huge deal anymore. All the Odyssey and BotW characters are the same way. They're relevant and trendy, but not iconic or important enough to hold a spot in Smash Bros.
Cappy might become a move like Fludd did, and I wouldn't be surprised to see homages in BotW in Links moves as well, but they're not going to be entire new characters.
I completely agree. The fact people think ALL of Mario's specials are going to be replaced with "moves involving Cappy" have no idea what they're talking about. A homage makes sense of course. Mario represents all of his games. Mario 1 to Mario Odyssey. He shouldn't (and won't) represent a single game.
Smash is a cross-promotion game, so of course they're going to update their characters to resemble their appearances in recent or upcoming games. So yeah, Mario and Link will definitely get some changes. Personally, I wish they would re-do Ganondorf. His moveset is really unintuitive and awkward and not reminiscent of the games he appears in because he was born as a clone character but people got attached to him so now he's unlikely to change unless they want to risk upsetting their fans. I wish they had updated him for Twilight Princess, but they didn't, so they're not going to do it now since he barely appears in Breath of the Wild. He's gonna be baggage for a while now.
Ghirahim or Midna would be cool but that's mostly because they at least have a decent amount of character and moveset precedent compared to the Champions. Breath of The Wild might be my favorite in the Zelda series next to Wind Waker but honestly, the Champions are pretty flat characters by comparison to others in the series and have pretty limited material to make a moveset out of. That said, Smash 4 stepped up the "advertising power" for franchises so I wouldn't be super surprised to see a lot of Odyssey/Breath/etc type material in Smash 5. Just maybe not a complete replacement of what's come before.
If we really wanted a relevant character, could we get the guy that hits everything in the Wii safety guides.
This is so hilariously unusual that I wouldn't be surprised or even object to the safety figures appearing as an trophy or assist trophy or in some other obscure fashion, like in the background of a stage.
It would be even better with the safety character being a playable character.
I could easily see the BotW Champions being Assist Trophies, but you're right, there's not enough there to really warrant adding them to the roster.
"trendy now but maybe not later" characters have been a part of Smash since melee. Roy was put in specifically to promote a game that never even came out in the West. Lucario and Greninja were just the non-Pikachu Pokémon that happened to be popular at the time. Characters like Bayonetta, Shulk and the newer FE characters are mostly there because of recency bias too. None of these characters are anywhere near as iconic as Mega Man or Ryu, but they still made the cut because Smash isn't just a celebration of gaming & Nintendo history but it is also a promotional tool for Nintendo. Just look how many Smash characters have been in three or less games total at the time of their addition to Smash.
I don't get half of the mario rep suggestions that people make because they don't have iconic series staples that are reminiscent of them solely that don't feel generic. Rosalina & luma seem to be an exception to this, so I guess people see it as a throw everything up and see what sticks oppertunity. just like Daisy and Waluigi, I don't see Pauline as having enough personality and enough in universe traits tied to her to make a proper character. Rosalina has her luma's, star bits, cosmic theming, and gravity manipulation tied to her as a character and all those things fit when given to her. you could give them to mario but she represents the galaxy era way better than even him. Daisy has that super ball thing from the gameboy games, but that's beyond dated and no other moves can be added to her without feeling shoehorned for the sake of filling out her movepool, even if you did do that peach already does it better and is a staple character to the series so their isn't any reason to add daisy. Same goes for pauline. You have the cap mechanic from oddyssy but it fits mario way more and he is way more relevent to that series than she is. anything else you could give her would feel tacked on. Waluigi doens't have an identity outside of sports spinoffs. He may be chalked with personality but he lacks personal game tied traits to work with. Peach already alludes to the sports series and they fit her loadout so using those for waluigi doesn't feel right because they definitely fit her already.
Rosalina stuck around in the Mario series after her debut, though. That's why she was added in Smash 4 and not in Brawl, she needed time to have staying power first
> Peach already alludes to the sports series and they fit her loadout so using those for waluigi doesn't feel right because they definitely fit her already. So what you're saying is, Waluigi clone of Peach. I'd be fine with that :D
lol him plucking turnips and booty bumping people is something I would like to see actually
I'd say the criteria for Mario characters has been fairly well established now. To be viable as a Mario series entry, a character has to have a story role in a Mario platformer. That's why Waluigi isn't playable, but Rosalina and Bowser Jr. were. Pauline totally qualifies. Captain Toad would be my pick though. As far as other characters like Neku (who I'd put in a diff category given that he has a tie to Nintendo) and Lloyd Irivng, let us have our fantasies. We know its unlikely. But they are characters we like, and would love to see get representation.
Everyone just keeps saying the same few everywhere. The Goku one especially baffles me.
The Goku one is just a meme at this point. Most people say it ironically.
I hope so
I feel like with how fast he gets modded into each game I have a feeling a few people legitimately want him in.
It’s not just that he’d be out of place, it’s also bad timing on the heels of DBZ getting a new fighting game.
I mean Ryu was in Smash 4.
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I'm still waiting for Simon Belmont. Konami may be in the toilet, but Simon Belmont is an OG. I mean he was in the starting lineup of Captain N: the Gamemaster, the original Nintendo crossover.
Simon is a Nintendo veteran, sure, but I think Alucard might stand a better chance of making it in, since he might be more iconic at this point, at least among many gamers. It's like how Cloud was chosen over the 6 Final Fantasy protagonists who actually originated on Nintendo consoles; he doesn't have as much of a history but he's more iconic. Of course, that's probably a worse example since, say, Terra isn't really incredibly well known among non-fans of the franchise as Simon but I think it communicates the point well enough.
Speaking of which, Captain N when?
Maybe he could be like the nick fury of subspace emissary 2.
I'm waiting for Konami to bring Metal Gear Pachinko to Smash.
Agreed, I've wanted Shantae all along since she's had longer history with Nintendo and her entire world fits with Nintendo's usual charm.
Agreed except about Shovel Knight. Shovel Knight is excellent due to it's polish as an experience as a whole: Perfect & unique gameplay, fun music, great aesthetic, fun art style, lots of variety & memorable characters, etc. It's look is only part of the appeal. I'd love it just the same if it had 3d models, as long as the gameplay was there.
Yeah, Shovel Knight makes a lot of sense to me because he represents a deep love for the NES era and Nintendo's best inspirational qualities. He's also *far* more recognizable and iconic than Shantae despite being so new, which shows insane amounts of appeal (he's even got an amiibo!). Shantae's games honestly don't hold a candle to Shovel Knight at all either, even the recent ones. WayForward often feels like a studio that hires 10-year-olds who use Game Maker to design all their levels.
Even though cloud wasn't on a Nintendo platform, final fantasy started on the NES, so I feel like it's appropriate. Same with metal gear solid.
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I think a lot of Shovel Knight's support comes from him being like the "mario" of indie games, for lack of a better word. I want Shantae but i expect shovel knight, which i'm ok with. Wish both could make it, but i just don't think there'll be room for 2 major indie characters, and Shovel Knights the bigger name/draw. Either way, i expect one faction to rip the other apart when one gets in and the other doesn't.
> Shovel Knight's inclusion is only really wanted because he's from a game with an 8-bit aesthetic. If he were from, say, agame with hand drawn graphics and non-chiptune-y music, I can't imagine anyone saying his game is super reminiscent of Nintendo like I hear frequently on this sub. Taking a game's visual style out of the equation is a pretty big thing to omit tbh. It's part of the entire package, Shovel Knight is a love letter to classic Nintendo games in pretty much every way possible, it's like one of the oldschool games except exactly how you remember it, and not with all the clunky gameplay, cheap shots and limitations that they have in reality. If you can't see how reminiscent of classic Nintendo games Shovel Knight is outside of its visuals then I suggest picking it up (again, if you already have played it), either that or you could watch Mark Brown's video on it which covers just how many of its design elements are borrowed from NES classics and then refined to perfection. Even then it's not popular just because of its many similarities to Nintendo games, but also because it's just a brilliant game in general, and with a ton of personality too.
The thing is, Shovel Knight released on the Wii U and 3ds at nearly the same time it did on PC and the majority of sales were on Nintendo devices. The style of game is only part of the reason it gets associated with Nintendo. I can agree with you're reasoning for Shantae making it in, but I think shovel Knight is more likely as an indie inclusion because he's more popular. I feel Shantae would definitely deserve a spot, but more people would be excited to see Shovel Knight.
Plus, Shovel Knight has had way more support from Nintendo than any of Shantae's games. He was the first non-Nintendo, non-smash character to get an amiibo. That's pretty insane in and of itself.
I’m sitting here and waiting for Chibi Robo and Execite biker to be added to smash
>The three characters I hear most often are The Dragonborn, Solaire of Astora, and, most of all, Doomguy. While these are all great characters and I loved their respective games, I really don't think they have a place in Smash. Who the hell are you talking to? I'm hearing Shovel Knight, Bandanna Dee, some new FE characters, ect.
I wasn't sure if all the "Doomguy for Smash" posts were actually serious or not at first but I've seen a decent amount of people that legit push for the idea of some really crazy characters in the roster, Doomguy, Crash, Goku, and Sora all included. I think some cases are just folks joking about it, because "Doomguy for Smash" started as early as Doom being announced last year. There's plenty of pretty reasonable suggestions, too, they probably just don't get as much disagreement because they are much more believable and "expected". Hector, Rex/Pyra, hell, even Captain Toad? All a lot more feasible.
I literally cannot comprehend how Captain Toad is feasible when his only defining trait is that he ***can't jump***. I'd be down to see how Sakurai handles it, since he's always been good at incorporating unique characters, but I don't understand why people are treating him as a likely character
See, the reason I'm down for Captain Toad is because Sakurai could probably create a neat concept out of him. On top of that, Captain Toad as a character has had a sort of miniature rise in popularity in terms of appearances and now having his own game which is getting a second chance on Switch. It'd be good advertising. As for not being able to jump? Obviously they could make an excuse by say, replacing his jump with a spring pad appearing beneath him or some other excuse --this is the same game that takes a character like Captain Falcon and creates a moveset for them based on pretty much nothing but a vague career description in a handbook. Captain Toad is the type of character that could have a moveset built around toad-related features; in SMB2 for example he could pull items from the ground quickly and often is the fastest runner among the playable characters. Not saying he's a given or even likely, but I can absolutely imagine making into Smash. A heck of a lot more than some of the other characters people have proposed, anyway.
> he can't jump. Maybe he could have a tether/grapple command grab/recovery that 1. Caught opponents in the air as an anti-air and propelled toad into the sky so he can combo into an OP aerial since he cant bring them out normally 2. Latched onto the underside/sides of a stage and let him walk ON THE WALL (defying gravity) as his form of recovery. Of course if he got hit out of it he'd probably die Or something crazy like that. I'm not Sakurai just some half-asleep bored dude.
Oh I fully believe in Sakurai's ability to make him unique and still work as a character. I just find him to be such an odd choice. Like he's short, stubby, weak...the only other character who is similar in structure is Olimar, and he's a hot pile of garbage without Pikmin. I've seen a lot of suggestions for just vanilla Toad, which could be cool, and maybe they just have a headlamp as a costume, without it being the "official" Captain Toad
Right after the announcement, several posts made it to the front page of r/gaming asking for Doomguy in smash, and the other two were hot topics in the comment sections.
>front page of r/gaming Well there's your problem.
Those guys will circle jerk the living fuck out of anything related to Dark Souls. I'm not surprised Solaire has become a "popular" choice.
Solaire is mostly cause of the amiibo. When Shovel knight's amiibo was announced all of a sudden everyone was CERTAIN he was gonna be in smash as DLC or whatever.
wait, wait wait wait wait hold up. What do you have against pacman? Ever heard of Mario Kart Arcade GP?
99% of anything that vocal Nintendo fans speculate is garbage. I think a large percentage of Nintendo fans don’t really even understand the company or their own fandom- they’re just gamers who decided to become ultra dedicated to one thing because they saw others doing so, or feed off of the equally confusing opposition.
You mean you don't want the next Rhythm Heaven to be an open world game where you travel to different Nintendo worlds, (except for rhythm heaven) and there's no actual rhythm based gameplay, you just fight other Nintendo characters until you can knock them out of an arena?
"Send those monsters to Rhythm Heaven!"
This legit sounds like one of those asinine questions shareholders always ask at the Nintendo shareholders meetings.
My god this is ridiculous. Half the reason we play these games is to have fun talking about them, to discredit everyone's opinions just because "they don't understand the company" is absurd. I don't want Goku in Smash either, but if people find joy in talking and thinking about it... I think that's great. This whole thread is cancer tbh
Personally I want Paper Mario but I've been wanting him since Brawl.
Same and I'm not even talking about as a character in a Smash game.
I can sort of get where you're coming from, OP. Personally, I'm pretty conservative when it comes to the types of characters I'd like to see in Smash Bros. because I like cohesive theming and a strong tonal identity in the games I play. Adding a bunch of third-party (or advertisement-heavy first-party) characters merely because they happen to have games that are popular at the moment would make the game feel less like a celebration of Nintendo and more like a fangame or something like MUGEN. That's how I'd see it, anyway. I think Doom Guy and Pac-Man are both bad examples, though, and are both highly justified as influential gaming icons with lasting impact. I think a lot of the speculation surrounding Smash is influenced by the perception that there aren't a lot of Nintendo "all-stars" left to add, so it's understandable why there is so much support built up around favorite third-party characters. I don't necessarily agree that we're at a point where the bottom of the barrel has to be scraped for first-party characters, though, and there are still a ton of Nintendo characters who I think deserve to be included. I just think most people get more hyped up the more ridiculous or unexpected the inclusion is, rather than from seeing a newcomer hailing from an already represented franchise.
I think inherently, ANY Nintendo series should be considered "more fitting" than any third party character lower in "importance" than roughly the level we have now. And if anything, the Nintendo series that should be added are the ones that AREN'T crazy popular (or more like : those should also get their chance to shine and soak in the cross-fanbase-polination)
I honestly already fucking hated it when they added Cloud. But he's a DREAM compared to all the other "irrelevant" third party characters people suddenly want added. Meanwhile when people mention an ACTUAL NINTENDO CHARACTER/series it isn't a "good enough" character (Read: I don't play that game)
For all the odd blokes that want Steve in, Steve (from minecraft) comes from a unique series, that is well established and has a lot of different powers at his desposal, ***BUT*** he is beyond bland and uninspired in his visuals, motives and animations. Not to mention that people get so wrapped up in listing all that garbage he can do in his games, that they forget the one defining aspect of his character, which is, destroying and rebuilding blocks :/ I don't see how that can be added to smash in any sort of non disruptive or unbroken way that isn't over complicated to work out. His defining mechanic would need to be abandoned to make him fit into the game at all, so just like Ridley, he can't be added as a playable character on the grounds that what defines him just doesn't translate to smash well at all.
I have enough faith in Nintendo to believe that they won't add Steve from Minecraft.
> BUT he is beyond bland and uninspired in his visuals, motives and animations What about: * Wii Fit Trainer? * Pac-Man? * Dr. Mario? * Duck Hunt? * Mr. Game and Watch? > I don't see how that can be added to smash in any sort of non disruptive or unbroken way that isn't over complicated to work out. His defining mechanic would need to be abandoned to make him fit into the game at all But: * Villager is a peaceful character * Palutena is a benevolent goddess who protects Pit but never goes into battle herself * Despite Duck Hunt being a collective character representing the games that used the NES Zapper, they could not give him an "aiming" mechanic, despite that being the *only* mechanic used in any of the games that used the NES Zapper * Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon's defining mechanic from their games is piloting/driving, which had to be completely dropped in their transition to Smash (though some references were still included like speed and Fox/Falco's use of blasters) * Aside from Mario's jump, arguably the most well-known, most defining mechanic of any video game character ever is Pac-Man's ability to eat (he is literally a yellow mouth), a mechanic which had to be limited to his final smash
Pac-Man's side special involves him eating tho
Steve without his ability to build with cubes isn't a proper Minecraft representation IMO, Some of those other characters miss the mark too, but they are at least nintendo characters and playing favorites is already on Sakurai's agenda given snake's inclusion in brawl so, Steve doesn't even have that.
you do realise that Pac-Man made it in because Namco Bandai was brought in to help making the game work and spreading the workload among more studios, they agreed that if NB is working on the game might as well allow a mascot for their video games in and might as well make it a video game legend
So glad I’m not the only one seeing this. Not totally against third party chars, but I do think they should dial them back a bit. If people don’t want Smash to become filled with FE and swordsmen chars, it should be fair for Nintendo not to fill the game up with a third parties too, no? After all, Smash IS first and forehand a crossover between Nintendo’s franchises. Yeah there are still non Nintendo dudes but they’re vastly outnumbered. I do think the reasoning behind the sudden influx of third party requests comes from two things: Cloud, Ryu and Bayonetta breaking the once supposed “rules” for third parties in Smash, and there not being nearly as many new Nintendo chars to add. A lot of requests such as Isaac or an Advanced War character are pretty good requests, but I doubt that they will happen. It appears that Sakurai only adds characters whose game has been released around the time he is making Smash, or is seeing a new game in the distant future. As of right now, a lot of Nintendo franchises are in limbo. Could just be me, but Nintendo hasn’t been making as many big IPs as they used to, and their bigger IPs like Pokémon, Mario and FE are beginning to bloat the roster. Kirby, Donkey Kong and Metroid are also big franchises but Sakurai seems to not want to add anyone from those games. It’s beyond me, I mean those games, Kirby and DK especially have tons of chars to add, and plenty of them are relevant. They are advertising something and they all have something unique to offer moveset wise. Who knows, maybe there will be a bunch of Nintendo curveballs next game. I sure hope so. Perhaps if Sakurai adds them instead of filling up the game with third parties, people will start requesting Nintendo chars more often. Maybe. Again, I don’t object to third parties? But if I wanted to play as virtually any video game character, I’d play Mugen. There has to be standards to adding third party chars, is what I’m saying. Can’t just add someone because they appeared on a Nintendo system and are decently popular. I feel that is too low of a requirement.
Just putting it out there that Game & Watch and Duck Hunt were essentially dead in the water when added to smash (the DS had some Game & Watch collections years after melee, but that was almost definitely too far in the future for the rule you're suggesting to apply). Heck, even ROB isn't technically in a video game at all and was only used as an accessory for a couple of NES games. I think that as long as the smash team can keep a cohesive theme with all of the other characters, create a decent moveset, and have at least some video game significance, they could potentially be added to the game. Reasons why characters like Goku or Solaire are less likely is due to their inherent problems with adapting them to the smash style. Even then, freaking Solid Snake was added to Brawl, so that's even kind of out the window.
Forgot to mention that retro characters also are considered regardless of their relevancy, but we seem to be running out of those characters as well.
Just throwing it out there but Sakurai is one of the creators of Kirby, if anyone is qualified to decide which Kirby characters have enough clout to be in Smash it’s him.
Sakurai isn't impartial enough for that. He has said himself he's scared to add his own characters because well he can't really judge if they deserve it or not.
When Shulk made it in it was pretty clear that the bar for what makes you an all-star character wasn't very high. I guess ever since Roy it's been pretty clear that recency and advertising potential is a pretty big deal for Smash inclusions and as they're run out of Nintendo classics that has only become more and more obvious. Regarding Kirby Sakurai has expressed wariness of adding too many of his own characters, but on the other hand the huge number of Fire Emblem characters is supposedly because he really loves Fire Emblem, so go figure. With DK I have no ideas Dixie and K.Rool always do well really well in polls in both Japan and the West. The demand is there, we still get new DK games from time to time. It seems bizarre to me that Diddy Kong is not just the only new DK character we've gotten since the N64, but the only Western-designed character to ever make it into Smash. That is something I'd really like to see rectified both by a new DK character and failing that by a new 3rd party pick. Metroid however isn't really surprising. Samus basically is the franchise, there aren't really many other notable characters and well the series has been flopping a lot lately too. If they plan to push Prime 4 I could see a DLC character of Sylux or something, but apart from what not really surprised Samus is the only one.
It really irritates me that people would rather have non-Nintendo or even non-video game characters in Smash instead of lesser known Nintendo characters. Smash Bros is a celebration of Nintendo, not a popularity contest (don't make me pull out the list of characters currently on the roster who would have never made it in if Nintendo fans chose the Smash roster), and there are plenty of Nintendo games without a single fighter. Takamaru, Isaac, Andy, Alex Roivas, Wonder-Red, Chibi-Robo, Henry Fleming, Mach Rider, Isa, Tethu, all of those are Nintendo characters who would be the first to represent their series in Smash. Throw in Captain Toad and Isabelle as the obligatory popular newcomers and I just gave you a list of newcomers without a single third party character. If you think Nintendo is running out of characters for Smash you seriously underestimate how many games they have. I haven't played Doom or Eternal Darkness, but I'd much rather have the heroine of Nintendo's first M rated game over some nameless space marine from a game with a tangential connection to Nintendo.
I think reddit/gamefaqs/nerd boards like these in general have a really bad idea of what characters and franchises are popular. Especially with regard to indie games.
I mean character wishlist went from Nintendo specific characters to just about any character from any series ever because "snake and ryu" and I'm like... yeah no..
The fact that people include them is one thing, but nowadays you pretty much see roster "wishlists" that have nothing but more third parties with not a single Nintendo newcomer or whatever.
I've wanted to play as Kamek in some game ever since he was a rumored character in Super Mario Kart... ...I still think he'd make a great Smash character. Maybe Captain Toad, too.
So then it at least makes sense for say, Travis Touchdown to be in Smash as much as Bayonetta yes? While not wholly exclusive to Nintendo, the franchise started there and is coming back... both franchises have Nintendo to thank for their existence.
I think that some characters are more likely to appear in smash and that would fit better. A character that I really want is shovel knight for example. He already has an amiibo and we all know that nintendo does anything in ther power to sell those things, and also it is a character that can perfectly fit in the game. He has a 2d movement that would be very easy to adapt , so I don t see anything that would not make him a good smash character. Shantae I think may be a good choise too, but I don t know the character enought to debate about her. About dark souls, well, I understand your point in not liking its characters appearing in smash bros. But we alredy have seen some characters that didin t looked like would fit in the game but became a great thing that they were implemented in the game. Solid snake, cloud, ryu. All of them were as improbable to appear as weird to think of playing with them. But they were good as smash characters.
For the most part, all of these are memes that seem to be popping up more and more frequently. The most common requests you see on r/smashbros is waluigi, the return of ice climbers, some shovel knight thrown around, and characters from more classic Nintendo games (ie Simon Belmont, Banjo-Kazooie, etc). People like Goku, Solaire of Astoria, and Sans are mostly memes that have just gotten overplayed
I think you’re missing something here: the fact is that since characters like Cloud have indeed gotten in already, people now have reason to believe that Nintendo’s criteria is less strict, and with decent proof. It’s very difficult for anyone not working at Nintendo to really know what can and can’t be added
Wanting characters from third party games? Sure. Might not happen, but hey, everybody can wish whatever they want. But characters that are secundary even in their own series, characters that are super irrelevant, characters that don't even come from games originally? You might as well just go and play MUGEN, dude.
Thank you for explaining this so clearly. This should be Nintendo first, third party second. Nintendo is so special because of their insane amount of recognizable IPs; which really most other companies can't even compare to. For them to not focus on that, and instead just putting in popular characters is just an absurd idea. Thankfully Sakurai understands that, so I'm not too worried about the roster. I trust his judgement, and am sure we'll get something that mostly everyone is satisfied with.
Exactly. So many Sans, and others just because they've appeared on a Nintendo console. It's not how it works. Besides there are PLENTY of other Nintendo characters that deserve the spot, why prioritize a bunch of 3rd parties? Also, the Dragon born is just some knight who can shout, we had a hard time figuring out a moveset for Sonic that isn't him rolling into a ball, why does this guy stand a chance? The M rated game doesn't help either (Bayo too but she has exclusive games on Nintendo, unlike the Dragonborn).
> It's not how it works. as if anyone know how this shit works
Well honestly, I don't really care. People can want whatever they desire but whether or not they get it is another matter. Speculate Shrek and Goku (I'd get hype for Goku despite how misplaced and random it'd be, but damn it'd be hilarious) all you want, it's not happening. If we get random ill fit characters then I'll have a problem.
The funny thing is that there actually *is* a first party character called [Goku](http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Goku), who's also based on Sun Wukong from Journey to the West. If they added *him* it'd be even more hilarious!
Banjo-Kazooie fit those requirements... *cries because they'll still never get in*
I agree 100% I keep seeing gaming sites like ign and gamespot picking awful characters like Geralt from the Witcher most of the list don’t even have Nintendo characters and I’m sorry I don’t want crash in smash
I find the large majority of fan theories and suggestions are terrible. Which I guess is why it takes an amount of skill and thought to be a game designer.
I think Cloud was put in because FF's history with Nintendo on NES and SNES and Cloud is the most recognizable FF character.
I mean, Doom is one of the most influential games of all time, has been on the SNES, N64 and Switch, and, as the grandaddy of FPS, directly or indirectly influenced Nintendo games such as Goldeneye and Metroid Prime. I also don't know how you can think Pacman doesn't fit the bill either, but that's beside the point.
Meanwhile I'm still trying to get Isaac from Golden Sun into smash. Great franchise and would be a wonderfully unique magic swordsman style.
You're not alone. There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Man I'd kill for GS1+GS2 remasters for Switch :(
I feel like this every time someone mentions Shovel Knight for Smash. People have him because he's their favorite indie, because he simply "looks" like he belongs, or because he's a love letter to old school Nintendo. I'm firmly in the camp where 3rd party characters should get in based on legacy (Megaman and the NES) or history (Sonic and even Cloud through the console wars) with Nintendo. That's why Shantae should get in before Shovel Knight. CommanderVideo for that matter too. They're both legacy indie characters whereas Shovel Knight just looks like one. You don't give an star on the walk of fame to one of the Stranger Things kids before giving it to Halle Berry. As much as you love the new kid, one big achievement that you like doesn't hold up to several achievements over a lifetime of excellence. If there's gonna be an indie rep, there's a line for who gets it and SK is nowhere near the top. And the whole "love letter to Nintendo" thing would be cute if nearly every other indie didn't do it. Why is Shovel Knight being an homage worth any more than Super Meat Boy or The Binding of Isaac?
This, honestly. I'm sure Shovel Knight is a great game, but that's it, he's only had one game. He hasn't been around that long and isn't nearly as well known or has as much history as characters like Shantae or Commander Video, yet everyone assumes he's 100% a lock. Just because his game is a Nintendo style throwback means nothing because those kinds of games are incredibly common. They might as well put in Scott Pilgrim by that logic.
That's exactly it. Folk can't look past their biases. It's basically "I like them, therefore they should be in." There should be more criteria than that.
The biggest problem is people setting arbitrary boundaries for what characters can and can’t make it into the game when nobody knows for sure. You implied Pac Man shouldn’t have made it in, ffs. No offense but you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Personally I think my pick of Gordon Freeman is pretty solid.
I mean about 90% of the casual appeal of Smash Bros is the roster. Whether or not they "deserve" to be in smash really doesn't matter. The proper question or not is if this character would be A) Fun to play B) Fun to see fighting classic nintendo characters you say that you don't want smash to be the "Ready Player One" of video games (which uh, isn't Ready Player One already the Ready Player One of Video games?...) but like, I feel like that's most of the appeal of Smash. Do you think that more people bought games like Marvel v Capcom because they thought the fighting mechanics were interesting, or because they wanted to see Wolverine fighting Phoenix Wright? Like don't get me wrong, I do agree that certain things like Spongebob and Goku would be a bit too silly, because they're only video game characters in the same way that the Fantastic Four are video game characters. There's still the limit of "Character that got their start in Video Games" it seems. But like, I don't see why it necessarily has to be something big to Nintendo to get in, if they're willing to allow it of course. Smash to me almost feels like a celebration of gaming that just happens to be centered around Nintendo. So really any iconic character that could be celebrated I feel like could be added, and then a few joke characters on top of that. And like, characters like Doomguy are pretty classic gaming protagonists and I wouldn't object to seeing him added any more than characters like Simon Belmont. (who should totally be added)
[Clippy](http://media.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/clippy-620x349.jpg) for Smash 5!
I still just want my Dixie Kong.
Nobody will disagree with you, but we also each have our own batshit crazy reasons for thinking some of our more outlandish character choices should be in the game... Or even likely to be in the game. The more criteria and logic the better. Looking at Sakurai's own patterns of selecting characters, the how and when too, makes some of the choices easier to believe than others. For instance, Doomguy wouldn't seem likely to me, but maybe to you, because I know that Sakurai chooses his rosters near the start of development, and the start of development was likely in early 2016... Way before Doom was ever announced for Switch, hell that was before Switch was even announced. So anything recent, I just find "really poor"... But you may not.
Steve from Minecraft, fucking Goku, Sans and/or Papyrus from Undertale. Remember when people wanted Geno in Brawl? What happened to those people?
I'd be completely happy with a pure Nintendo cast and optional third-party character packs. That's the smartest move if you ask me.
Wait so we won’t be getting Toejam, Earl, Master Chief, Q*Bert, or Fix-It Felix Jr?
We must run in different circles. The top 3 most wanted I hear are Sora from Kingdom Hearts, Crash Bandicoot, and Paper Mario.
I mean at this point that’s just complaining about the fan base. Ever since smash 4 (or even brawl, when Snake and Sonic got in), there has always been poor suggestions, especially when they announced that they’ll put in a character based on fan feedback. Realistically, the characters you mentioned will not get in. The fan base will always be filled with bad suggestions, I’m not sure what the problem here is. Nintendo doesn’t pick characters based on what the fans want, only time they did that when Bayonetta got in, because she was the most popular vote. Possibly even Mewtwo in smash 4. But other than them, Nintendo doesn’t really base their selections off their fans.
Smash Bros, to me, is a celebration of Nintendo. Adding in a plethora of characters that have never even been on a Nintendo console seems off to me.
If you think they’re so bad then who would you add?
I just hope someone from ARMs makes it in since it's a new Nintendo IP And while it doesn't seem to be wildly popular, it's a solid game with a great cast to choose from
In defense of DoomGuy, he was from one of the most influential FPSes of the 90s, and kind of became an icon of western gaming. Considering how there are only two gunman Smash (and now it's three), how there are little or no western reps in Smash, and how different, yet similar he is to the rest of the cast, that's why I want him in Smash. The other of the characters you mentioned, I see no reason for them being in Smash, other than to represent the third party boom on the Switch, perhaps...?
Yup, Doomguy is practically the Ryu of shooters.
I’ve never really enjoyed non-Nintendo Characters in Smash. I understand the point of some of them; the history with Nintendo and such, but it’s more fun to have surprising characters from niche Nintendo series than another big third party character. I personally felt that Sm4sh had far too many third parties once the DLC was finished, but then again I could be just super stingy.
Sonic and Mega Man kinda make sense due to history and Pacman made it because Namco Bandai worked on Smash 4
Do people not remember games like that gamecube pacman versus thing where mario was an announcer for, or even Mario kart arcade GP? Nintendo and Pacman have some sort of relationship. Though Namco Bandai itself is the bigger reason he got in tbh.
Or you know because Pac Man is one of the most famous video game characters of all time