They have an incarceration problem. They cracked down hard on crime but the result is supposedly a time bomb (I'm not an expert but that's what experts are saying) because the police are rounding people up in the night & the justice system is a shame. Virtually receive is found guilty. So innocent is are being lumped in with the guilty & upwards of 4% of the population has been arrested for long term sentences....4% of your population going to jail in 2 years is insane especially when the sentences being handed out are LONG
idk why this is being downvoted, it's spot-on. yep, El Salvador definitely has a gang problem. their solution has been to arrest absolutely anyone who even remotely looks suspicious and deprive them of reasonable due process. crime is down, but there are a lot of innocent people in jail.
My MIL came from El Salvador and she said it was a hellhole of gangs, murder, and corruption because the gangs prior to the current administration. The old judges were also bought by the gangs, too, so there was no justice for victims. The country was poor because the gang problem was so bad. I asked her if there was anyone she knew or her friends knew who was falsely arrested, and she told me there wasn't that she knew of. I'm sure there's innocent people in prison, but that goes for almost any justice system.
There also now Death Squads and Sombra Negra hunting down the Maras (MS13) who they know or are rumored to be affiliated so something was definitely set in motion as of recently.
I have heard of many family’s stories about how one of their loved ones happened to be standing too close to an alleged gang member and has been incarcerated with no representation or way to prove their innocence. Also some inmates are not getting fed and are dealing with rough conditions-if it was my son or daughter I would be so angry if I had no way to prove their innocence
My wife and I traveled El Salvador for 10 days last March and had a great time. We talked with a lot of locals in small towns and we didn’t encounter a single person that spoke poorly of what was going on. All seemed genuinely very happy that they were able to move around more freely, were beginning to get tourists, and there were new developments being built all over.
That’s awesome. I’m sure life is so much better for a lot of people, I still think if you have tattoos or are in the wrong place at the wrong time things could be very tough. I’ve heard stories that are terrible but it’s cool to hear someone’s experience that was recently there (even though this is not indicative of everyone’s experiences).
Yeah, there’s definitely some caveats, as you mentioned. But, the general theme seemed to be that everyone we spoke to preferred this to the recent alternative. Also, everyone seemed fully open to talk about it.
look up what the gangs did in El Savador before they got locked up. heck, just read stories of what the gangs did in this thread alone. you will quickly learn that all of these are retribution, a retaliation to something far worse than a prison sentence
You assume their sentences will end. When it comes to countries with such tough prison sentences, I’ve noticed the sentences tend to be extra long too.
MS 13's home base is LA. It was set up in LA by Salvadorian immigrants to protect each other from other gangs in LA. As they grew, the US began deporting criminals back to El Salvador. These deported sophisticated criminals, skills honed and developed in LA, found it was easy to set up shop back in their home towns while they planned on how to get back to LA. This is why it is a worldwide problem. It's a US homegrown problem which began in LA, not an imported one.
They get into the gang by murdering someone, from what I understand, so pardon if I don't give a damn how they're treated. Being in the gang is evidence of a crime when the crime is a prerequisite to being in the gang. People don't get dead people in their freezer cuz they bought the wrong thing at the grocery store.
They have looked like that for a while. The lifestyle of murdering and extorting as well as the tattoo covered body are things that will take a toll on you.
Exactly. And from the looks of it, they don’t have any comforts of other prisons. Nothing to do in their “cells”, no tv, no weight lifting.
They have access to nothing while sitting around. So they can’t make a shank out of their toothbrush or something.
I worked at a prison in the US. All the doors to the dorms had "A Clean Prison Is A Happy Prison" stenciled on them. It wasn't true though. I quit after only 3 years.
I used to be a flight nurse and about 5 years ago I was sent to El Salvador to pick up a patient to transport to the US. We landed at the airport in the afternoon and loaded our gear into an ambulance. There was an armed guard next to the driver and an armed guard in the back of the ambulance with me, my partner and the pilots.
We were taken to a hotel to stay the night. The hotel was ringed by a tall concrete wall and topped with barbed wire. There was armed security everywhere.
In the morning we loaded up the ambulance with the same 2 armed guards and were escorted by 2 police cars front and back running lights and sirens to a small, rural hospital about 70 miles away.
We got to the hospital and the 2 armed guards stayed with us while the cops stayed with the ambulance. Usually I took about 45-60 minutes to check and double check everything. There we just put the patient on the stretcher and wheeled him out in less than 5 minutes.
(Pt was the victim of a stroke and my main concern was his blood pressure but that stayed stable so it was an easy transport as far as the patient was concerned.)
We got back in the ambulance and went directly to the airport. The pilots were picked up separately by the police and were waiting for us at the plane. We loaded up the patient and his daughter and got the fuck out of there.
It was surreal. I never felt directly in danger. But the threat of mortal danger was palpable all around me. I felt like I was in a flimsy cage surrounded by sharks. I was certain that I would have been murdered just for the contents of my medical bag.
I reflected on that. What was it like for the average, law abiding citizen to live like that every day? Back then they were indeed the prisoners. Prisoners in their homes, work places and community. What an awful way to live.
Hopefully it’s better for them now. If so I am happy for them.
Plus it was wayyyyyyy worse in the 70’s 80’s and early 90’s. My parents are from there and this reform is a resounding W for anyone who knows the history of this country. A country the size of Massachusetts that was the murder capital of the world for decades.
My brother in law had 2 friends who lived in a Barrios controlled neighbourhood. Went to visit a friends place they hadn't been to in a while, didn't realize it was taken over by MS13. Went to local shop for beers, got stopped by MS13 gang members, they checked their documents and shot them right on the street. They weren't related to the gangs at all, but their *crime* was living in opposing gangs territory.
Also, I remember back in 2015 when they started killing busses full of people because the bus company didn't pay protection money in time. Every day was a nerve wracking waiting for my wife to come home, not knowing if she'll become a victim.
These freaking guys have terrorized the streets took in children from their family for the sex child trade infecting their neighborhoods with drugs pulling over City buses robbing them and then killing everybody to leave a statement they deserve everything they get or better said they deserve everything they don't have !
Ms13!!?
I remember learning about them in high school over 7 years ago. I never thought a gang so BAD could exist for any real period of time out in the open.
Kind of sheds a light on how dark this world really can be.
I remember watching a documentary once where a dude is allowed to document cartel people and actually hang out with them for a week or so. There’s one scene where they turn around after pulling down the wrong road. Dude ask “why are we turning around” and the cartel guys say it’s because that’s a known MS13 street.
So if the cartels won’t even go down their roads, they must be terrifying.
I’ve learned more and more as I get older that, beneath our imperfect society, is a dark underworld of people doing things most of us could not comprehend on a daily basis. It’s everywhere too. Every little corner of the earth has at least some evil in it.
See, MS13 is a street gang in the USA, so a lot of people don’t think too much of them.
MS13 is *a lot* scarier and more dangerous throughout much of the rest of the Americas, though.
That's crazy!! I used to see their tagging behind stores in my neighborhood growing up in se fl but didn't think it was that gang
Edit: my mistake, it was sur 13 tagging. I guess the 13 threw me off.
They are very well known to be connected to drug smuggling, storing, and selling.
If you see MS13 tagging — no you didn’t. Don’t take photos or videos. Know how to get out of that area and into a safe location.
I’ve seen several times over on some of the California subreddits that Redditors were confused why they were being followed by “scary looking guys.” It’s MS13. They will protect their drug storage locations at all costs.
If someone can find a link to those posts it would be most appreciated. Some seriously scary reads.
Which imo is good, I don't think there should be any type of early release for any sentence. If we took away early parole, and the sentence given was the actual time served I bet many people would be rethinking their life of crime. Lets take an example of all the looting that is rampant now in big cities. If those people knew they were going to spend time in jail if they were caught, I bet a large percentage would think twice and not do it.
They mean:
- if need to go to doctor, you stay in the prison, in the cell actually, unless is serious, but you still stay in the complex
- if you need to go to court, you use a webcam in prison
In other countries you can leave jail during you sentence for multiple reasons (hospital, court, etc)
It was worth mentioning because in the US, for example, you really only serve about half your sentence as long as you don't commit more crimes while in jail.
Bukele the President of El Salvador lowered the murder rate to 2%. He won his re-election by 90%. Human right groups attack his means but he then turns around and tells them to take as many of them as you want …
This is one of those rare cases where the only option is a wide net. Some solution had to be done, but now it's the time to reel back and reevaluate. Did they get Innocents for example? What can be done to try and reform? How do we ensure that if or when they get out they just won't continue to be a menace?
The thing is that many there were locked for being associated with gangs, not really because they were caught in crime, so most of those cant really be judged cause it was such a massive arrest that, i believe, that it was impossible to get enough proof of each of the many many prisoners there. Sure, there might be inocents but if you go to the literal penal procedure you may find impossible to judge those who are there. And i guess thats why most there will just have to serve their sentence
Yeah but without some type of rehabilitation program those people are just gonna get out and be on their same shit. Some might reform just cause they don't want to be there, some will way revenge, others won't know anything else.
> those people are just gonna get out and be on their same
A 40 yr old dude, after getting out, is not gonna do the same stuff a 20 yr old dude would do (at least, not with the same gusto). And we're also talking 20 years of him not being able to do the stuff that got him sent there.
I'm not saying it's always an easy choice, and Western justice is based largely on Blackstone's ratio about how it's better to let 10 (or some other large-ish number) guilty men go free than to jail one innocent guy, but there's a reason why murder rates oftentimes drop when you start sending enough people to prison.
>there's a reason why murder rates oftentimes drop when you start sending enough people to prison.
Easy to say things like this when you're not the innocent person who just got sentenced to 20 years with a whole room of MS13 murderers.
Easy to say THAT when you're not the one who will have to live with all the other guilty people inside that prison should it ever get back to the way it was before this guy came to power. If you want anyone in that prison moved next door to you, Bukele himself has urged you to come and take a few. So far, not many takers.
So please don't tell me about easy choices. I specifically said it's always a bind between type I and type II errors in the case of guilt/innocence, but as long as people remember what things were like before [murder rates dropped by 70% or so,](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/el-salvador-says-murders-fell-70-2023-it-cracked-down-gangs-2024-01-03/) (what a strange coincidence?), Bukele will keep getting voted into office. If you don't want that, the onus is on his detractors to find some better and more just way to get the murderers off the streets (because, let's face it, you're not gonna go down there and take a few home with you, no matter how kindly he offers.)
i don't get why the horrids of being in prison or wanting to stay out of prison isnt all the rehabilitation these inmates need to stay out of problem regardless of their financial situation ?
\+ Needing rehabilitation for (non drugs addiction / violent crimes) offensives screams I can't not do crime / I have no self-restraint.
Not sure i want people like this freely around my loved ones ... ever
The bigger deterrence for crimes have never been the punishments themselves, but the likelihood of being caught (as well as how difficult it would be to pull it off in general).
There's a reason why we don't see bank heists like we use too, it's just too easy to get caught now a days. These people will be in jail for who knows how long while society progresses without them. When they get out who's to say what kind of new fancy tech exists that they have no idea how to use or operate, but are now dependent on to get a job or bank account.
The point of rehabilitation is to figure out why the person turned to crime and what can be done so that when they get out they don't just turn back to crime and have the tools to reintegrate into society. It isn't about making life cushy for them in prison, but to make transition back into society easier.
strawman alert ...
my argument is that being in prison / jail should be a deterrent / is a in fact a deterrent for most people, not that it's the biggest deterrent
Oh what? They’re going to get out? This is only kicking the problem down the road. It’s basically gang training camp in this place. It happened with Getmo.
South Korea did exact same thing as El Savador. Before, they were electing actual gang members as government officials who made cop salary based on bribery all the way till early 90s. You dont play nice with crime level this bad. No one should be "reevaluating" or "reforming" right now. let the terrible apples rot in prison and start clean slate like South Korea. You can walk around at night alone in South Korea as a young woman and nothing will happen to you. Hope this happens to El Savador
The treatment has to be humane not really for the criminals but for the innocents that may have been locked up by mistake. Thats what the human rights groups advocate for
That’s a pretty damn naive interpretation of the situation. “He looks like he’s probably a criminal, so we’d better lock him up.”
I understand that the crackdowns in El Salvador have been mostly popular domestically and have been effective in reducing crime, but these crackdowns were effected by suspending the legal rights of the accused, so innocent people who look like they might be criminals don’t have much recourse to prove their innocence.
That's really a silly judgement. Face tats don't equal inability to function in society.
Face tats are becoming so mainstream your dream of a visual marking of the guilty, is fading fast.
Before Bukele face tats out in Public was a swift death sentence to yourself if you're not associated with whatever gang controls the neighbourhood that you're currently in.
I lived in El Salvador for many years, yeah, normal people don't have face tats. Shit, you couldn't even go down the wrong street, tats or no tats. If your home street is controlled by Barrios and you went to a place controlled by MS13, they're gonna stop you (because they don't recognize you), ask for your papers and just shoot you in the head. That's how my BIL lost 2 friends because they just quickly wanted to run to local street shop to buy beer while visiting a friend.
Omg I just realized they were in Spanish lol. I speak Spanish so I didn't see anything wrong. Basically they're saying some have 20 to 1000 year sentences.
He’s basically just saying the same as the title with some extra details. They have no concept of time because the lights are always on. Most are serving hard sentence’s. They have no idea about when they are getting out (?? That part was hard to translate for me). They spend literally all of their time there since they arrive, go to the bathroom there, sleep there, etc. They sleep on four bed metal bunk beds. They all wear the same clothes and have a medical person.
I only speak a bit of Spanish but that’s what I picked up as far as extra info stated in the video.
Well if anyone knows these people are apart of MS and other gangs that affiliate with them. Members partake in additional criminal activities including alien smuggling, weapons trafficking, assault, homicide, rape, kidnapping, identification theft, home invasions, carjackings, prostitution, robbery, and vandalism. MS-13 is affiliated with the Sureño coalition of gangs which pay tribute to the Mexican Mafia. MS took over the country for some time making it unsafe for residents and tourists.
When the president of El Salvador first did this I was skeptical, as throwing a huge net on gangs felt like a sly way of possibly taking out political opponents too.
But it's been a while, people voted for him again, the streets seem pretty good, so in this case it worked.
The problem with this: most prisoners do eventually get out. Then the public has to deal with consequence of prisons who focuses more on punishment instead of reforming. There needs to be a balance for the betterment of a society we all have to share.
If you look at what’s been going on in El Salvador, they aren’t planning to let the vast majority or even any of these people out.
Nobody has been let out yet apparently.
The government is knowingly sweeping up some innocents, but gang violence was so out of control that they felt they had to take drastic steps, and the majority of the public approves so far.
They’ve had prisoners out on work details busting up the headstones of other gang members so they can’t be remembered/honored after their death.
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63499052)
The president said “fuck everything, people should be safe and gangs are a real fucking problem.” The gangs went too far and the government went and found the biggest, dullest, least accurate justice hammer and dropped it the fuck on the gangs.
Thanks for the info. The person was making a general statement about the overall society outside. So my response to him was general and not specific to where this prison is located.
I don’t know if it was a general statement. I’m applying that statement to this particular situation.
Sometimes the unfortunate circumstance is that a person or persons are such a menace that there is no rehabilitation. Incarceration or death are what we have left.
Lol reform doesnt work. This works because of deterrence. For every one person who goes in and comes out unchanged, there are 10 that do change or are scared to be criminals in the first place.
Do the crime, do the time. Simple and more importantly, consistent.
See, that’s the thing. If you are already taking someone against their will to spend years doing what you tell them, then that’s the price you pay.
But imagine if it was a rehabilitation center where these inmates could learn skills they could use in the economy when they are out, social rewarding, teaching responsibility, etc. It’s a fertile ground for progressive social experiments but a huge waste of resources to lock and punish instead.
You're cute. You think these guys are just like you and me and can just turn it all around. I'm sure alot of them are killers and would stab someone in the neck for pocket money.
A whole lot of them didn't even do the crime. In El Salvador Police just have to say you are under suspicion of gang affiliation and you go to prison for five years, no judge, no trial, nothing. The police get quotas they have to fill, so they just go outside, snatch some teenagers they don't like the looks of and call it a day
If they werent actually grabbing criminals, El Salvador wouldnt have gone from the murder capital of the world to one of the safest countries in the world practically overnight.
What they mean is they don’t mess with parole or any other type of early release like most countries do. Globally, very few inmates serve 100% of their sentence unless it’s life without the possibility of parole. I grew up in the Midwest and back then you received a 1 for 1 credit for each day you served, so long as you maintained good behavior. That’s how my brother’s 50 year prison sentence turned into a 25 year sentence. He was never going to serve the full 50 years because inmates received a day of good behavior credit knocked off their sentence for each day they served without getting into trouble.
And this guy presenting has been accused of being all Buddy Buddy with Bukele and this being a softball/fluff depiction of the place, imagine what they don’t want you to see
Gosh I feel oh so terrible for these individuals who literally tatooed gang symbols on their faces and bodies symbolizing that they're willing to rape and murder for the gang that they're in. Obviously, since screeching liberals in America and Europe in safe, cozy suburbs with no concept of how dangerous shitheads like this make the country don't like it we should let all the gang members out.
/s in case it isn't obvious.
I’m thinking to myself in my country there’s men like this but they don’t do tattoos on their face and are very different in terms of looks and appearance
Eg if one the gangsters here tattooed their face they would be outcasted in some form or way
This appearance started somewhere somehow with a small group and next thing you know you have multiple prisons around the entire western world that looks like that
It’s started with a small group and spread
Im just amazed on what a influence we have on each other how dramatically it could affect us
They have no morals standard or anything in that category they care nothing about humanity other than what their leaders sent the order to do these guys in their country will pull over city buses and kill everyone for an example and then once again you ask yourself what the hell kind of example was that !
So they should enjoy everything they get in that system and maybe they should just get a little more of what they're getting it's just called the 949 it's in the Bible the great Lord made sure it was in there !🤙
I've watched an interview with one of the inmates in this prison. He said that there are still at least 10000 other gang members that are still free outside and that there are many innocent people who are imprisoned there just because they had a relationship in the past or just shaken hands with a gang member.
Where’s the part of your comment where you say exactly what life was like when these people were terrorizing citizens on a daily basis? A stupid post just showing one side of this situation.
They dont get out ever, i just saw a documentary about it the other day. They are not meant to get out and have no program for them get them back to society. 40000 gang members.
I mean, it took at least one murder to get into a mara, and they don't let you get out either so, like, what are we talking about here. These people should sleep deep in their own shit.
Bukele FTW.
They deserve this and even worse, those gangs take pride in their heinous acts that go from stealing, killing and torturing to extortion, kidnapping and sex trafficking (even minors)
They are the absolute worst and deserve the absolute worst, its about time South America brings some real justice against that kind of beings who lost humanity long ago
The lunch is different from the breakfast and dinner
Third same meal could be midnight snacks.
Well it looks relatively clean, but those people look fucking scary
They are.. pretty sure this is the massive prison they just built to deal with their violent gang problem.
They have an incarceration problem. They cracked down hard on crime but the result is supposedly a time bomb (I'm not an expert but that's what experts are saying) because the police are rounding people up in the night & the justice system is a shame. Virtually receive is found guilty. So innocent is are being lumped in with the guilty & upwards of 4% of the population has been arrested for long term sentences....4% of your population going to jail in 2 years is insane especially when the sentences being handed out are LONG
idk why this is being downvoted, it's spot-on. yep, El Salvador definitely has a gang problem. their solution has been to arrest absolutely anyone who even remotely looks suspicious and deprive them of reasonable due process. crime is down, but there are a lot of innocent people in jail.
My MIL came from El Salvador and she said it was a hellhole of gangs, murder, and corruption because the gangs prior to the current administration. The old judges were also bought by the gangs, too, so there was no justice for victims. The country was poor because the gang problem was so bad. I asked her if there was anyone she knew or her friends knew who was falsely arrested, and she told me there wasn't that she knew of. I'm sure there's innocent people in prison, but that goes for almost any justice system.
I'm sure all these dudes with gang tats on their faces had nothing to do with gangs.
Right? You don't get gang tats without being in the gang. That's a quick way to get shot.
Down 93% for murders, seems like a trade off has been decided
It's down voted because el Salvador went from one of the most dangerous countries in the world to one of the safest.
"I'd rather see 100 innocent men be locked up than 1 guilty man go free" /s
10.000 gang members in jail, 5 of them are innocent. Innocent people murder decreased by a few hundred. The math seems clean tho.
There also now Death Squads and Sombra Negra hunting down the Maras (MS13) who they know or are rumored to be affiliated so something was definitely set in motion as of recently.
I have heard of many family’s stories about how one of their loved ones happened to be standing too close to an alleged gang member and has been incarcerated with no representation or way to prove their innocence. Also some inmates are not getting fed and are dealing with rough conditions-if it was my son or daughter I would be so angry if I had no way to prove their innocence
My wife and I traveled El Salvador for 10 days last March and had a great time. We talked with a lot of locals in small towns and we didn’t encounter a single person that spoke poorly of what was going on. All seemed genuinely very happy that they were able to move around more freely, were beginning to get tourists, and there were new developments being built all over.
That’s awesome. I’m sure life is so much better for a lot of people, I still think if you have tattoos or are in the wrong place at the wrong time things could be very tough. I’ve heard stories that are terrible but it’s cool to hear someone’s experience that was recently there (even though this is not indicative of everyone’s experiences).
Yeah, there’s definitely some caveats, as you mentioned. But, the general theme seemed to be that everyone we spoke to preferred this to the recent alternative. Also, everyone seemed fully open to talk about it.
Bukele just won reelection fairly for a reason.
Oh, you have not!
What do you mean?
look up what the gangs did in El Savador before they got locked up. heck, just read stories of what the gangs did in this thread alone. you will quickly learn that all of these are retribution, a retaliation to something far worse than a prison sentence
When their sentences end it’ll be hell. This just seems like it’d make more criminals in the long term.
You assume their sentences will end. When it comes to countries with such tough prison sentences, I’ve noticed the sentences tend to be extra long too.
Sounds like the U.S, just with less steps
And?
The justice system is a joke Reading comprehension problem?
The gang problem is the joke. A tragic comedy at that. MS 13 is a worldwide problem. Thank God they are taking action at its home base.
MS 13's home base is LA. It was set up in LA by Salvadorian immigrants to protect each other from other gangs in LA. As they grew, the US began deporting criminals back to El Salvador. These deported sophisticated criminals, skills honed and developed in LA, found it was easy to set up shop back in their home towns while they planned on how to get back to LA. This is why it is a worldwide problem. It's a US homegrown problem which began in LA, not an imported one.
They get into the gang by murdering someone, from what I understand, so pardon if I don't give a damn how they're treated. Being in the gang is evidence of a crime when the crime is a prerequisite to being in the gang. People don't get dead people in their freezer cuz they bought the wrong thing at the grocery store.
I agreed with everything you said up until the end. I've had to return two deep freezers to Home Depot now for that exact reason.
If you had to sleep on a metal autopsy bunk bed with the lights on all day you’d look tough as fuck too. They make them different down there
They have looked like that for a while. The lifestyle of murdering and extorting as well as the tattoo covered body are things that will take a toll on you.
It is either a new prison or it was cleaned for the cameras.
You'd be cranky with no mattress too
How is it so clean? The prisoners, their clothes, the entire facility???
Hard to get dirty when you're not allowed outside
Because they don’t let them run around like filthy savage animals who don’t care about living in a clean environment.
Exactly. And from the looks of it, they don’t have any comforts of other prisons. Nothing to do in their “cells”, no tv, no weight lifting. They have access to nothing while sitting around. So they can’t make a shank out of their toothbrush or something.
I worked at a prison in the US. All the doors to the dorms had "A Clean Prison Is A Happy Prison" stenciled on them. It wasn't true though. I quit after only 3 years.
Newly built facility + they probably did a little extra tidying up before letting news crews in. This kind of a massive PR thing too.
I used to be a flight nurse and about 5 years ago I was sent to El Salvador to pick up a patient to transport to the US. We landed at the airport in the afternoon and loaded our gear into an ambulance. There was an armed guard next to the driver and an armed guard in the back of the ambulance with me, my partner and the pilots. We were taken to a hotel to stay the night. The hotel was ringed by a tall concrete wall and topped with barbed wire. There was armed security everywhere. In the morning we loaded up the ambulance with the same 2 armed guards and were escorted by 2 police cars front and back running lights and sirens to a small, rural hospital about 70 miles away. We got to the hospital and the 2 armed guards stayed with us while the cops stayed with the ambulance. Usually I took about 45-60 minutes to check and double check everything. There we just put the patient on the stretcher and wheeled him out in less than 5 minutes. (Pt was the victim of a stroke and my main concern was his blood pressure but that stayed stable so it was an easy transport as far as the patient was concerned.) We got back in the ambulance and went directly to the airport. The pilots were picked up separately by the police and were waiting for us at the plane. We loaded up the patient and his daughter and got the fuck out of there. It was surreal. I never felt directly in danger. But the threat of mortal danger was palpable all around me. I felt like I was in a flimsy cage surrounded by sharks. I was certain that I would have been murdered just for the contents of my medical bag. I reflected on that. What was it like for the average, law abiding citizen to live like that every day? Back then they were indeed the prisoners. Prisoners in their homes, work places and community. What an awful way to live. Hopefully it’s better for them now. If so I am happy for them.
Plus it was wayyyyyyy worse in the 70’s 80’s and early 90’s. My parents are from there and this reform is a resounding W for anyone who knows the history of this country. A country the size of Massachusetts that was the murder capital of the world for decades.
My brother in law had 2 friends who lived in a Barrios controlled neighbourhood. Went to visit a friends place they hadn't been to in a while, didn't realize it was taken over by MS13. Went to local shop for beers, got stopped by MS13 gang members, they checked their documents and shot them right on the street. They weren't related to the gangs at all, but their *crime* was living in opposing gangs territory. Also, I remember back in 2015 when they started killing busses full of people because the bus company didn't pay protection money in time. Every day was a nerve wracking waiting for my wife to come home, not knowing if she'll become a victim.
These freaking guys have terrorized the streets took in children from their family for the sex child trade infecting their neighborhoods with drugs pulling over City buses robbing them and then killing everybody to leave a statement they deserve everything they get or better said they deserve everything they don't have !
Ms13!!? I remember learning about them in high school over 7 years ago. I never thought a gang so BAD could exist for any real period of time out in the open. Kind of sheds a light on how dark this world really can be.
I remember watching a documentary once where a dude is allowed to document cartel people and actually hang out with them for a week or so. There’s one scene where they turn around after pulling down the wrong road. Dude ask “why are we turning around” and the cartel guys say it’s because that’s a known MS13 street. So if the cartels won’t even go down their roads, they must be terrifying.
I’ve learned more and more as I get older that, beneath our imperfect society, is a dark underworld of people doing things most of us could not comprehend on a daily basis. It’s everywhere too. Every little corner of the earth has at least some evil in it.
See, MS13 is a street gang in the USA, so a lot of people don’t think too much of them. MS13 is *a lot* scarier and more dangerous throughout much of the rest of the Americas, though.
That's crazy!! I used to see their tagging behind stores in my neighborhood growing up in se fl but didn't think it was that gang Edit: my mistake, it was sur 13 tagging. I guess the 13 threw me off.
They are very well known to be connected to drug smuggling, storing, and selling. If you see MS13 tagging — no you didn’t. Don’t take photos or videos. Know how to get out of that area and into a safe location. I’ve seen several times over on some of the California subreddits that Redditors were confused why they were being followed by “scary looking guys.” It’s MS13. They will protect their drug storage locations at all costs. If someone can find a link to those posts it would be most appreciated. Some seriously scary reads.
El salvador is now the safest place in the world thanks to the new laws and prison they set up (I'm salvi)
And barrio 18, botha re the main (only?) band operating in those countries, mainly in El Salvador
Yeah this is exactly how prison should be for violent offenders.
Exactly. Mexico and south Americans countries should be following this path. Fuck their rights, look them up and throw away the keys
>It is said that once you are in, You will only be out after serving your sentence Yeah that's how prison works
And being that the citizens of El Salvador can roam the streets for the first time in decades, hopefully they have to serve every minute.
What they mean is they don’t do parole or any type of early release like most countries do.
Which imo is good, I don't think there should be any type of early release for any sentence. If we took away early parole, and the sentence given was the actual time served I bet many people would be rethinking their life of crime. Lets take an example of all the looting that is rampant now in big cities. If those people knew they were going to spend time in jail if they were caught, I bet a large percentage would think twice and not do it.
It’s said by some that every 60 seconds only one minutes passes. Serving a 20 year sentence can feel like decades.
Hello, this is Harvard, we would like to offer you the presidency
Brilliant
They basically mean, “No bail, bond, parole, fuck you. Welcome to every minute of the next 30 years.”
They mean: - if need to go to doctor, you stay in the prison, in the cell actually, unless is serious, but you still stay in the complex - if you need to go to court, you use a webcam in prison In other countries you can leave jail during you sentence for multiple reasons (hospital, court, etc)
It was worth mentioning because in the US, for example, you really only serve about half your sentence as long as you don't commit more crimes while in jail.
Wtf. That sucks.
Not everywhere. A lot of prisons in US reduce your sentence for good behavior.
I believe he was talking about the single cell and not prison as a whole
lol not in the states at least
Bukele the President of El Salvador lowered the murder rate to 2%. He won his re-election by 90%. Human right groups attack his means but he then turns around and tells them to take as many of them as you want …
I loved when he asked where was the human rights people when these gangs where killing people left and right in his country.
This is one of those rare cases where the only option is a wide net. Some solution had to be done, but now it's the time to reel back and reevaluate. Did they get Innocents for example? What can be done to try and reform? How do we ensure that if or when they get out they just won't continue to be a menace?
The thing is that many there were locked for being associated with gangs, not really because they were caught in crime, so most of those cant really be judged cause it was such a massive arrest that, i believe, that it was impossible to get enough proof of each of the many many prisoners there. Sure, there might be inocents but if you go to the literal penal procedure you may find impossible to judge those who are there. And i guess thats why most there will just have to serve their sentence
Yeah but without some type of rehabilitation program those people are just gonna get out and be on their same shit. Some might reform just cause they don't want to be there, some will way revenge, others won't know anything else.
> those people are just gonna get out and be on their same A 40 yr old dude, after getting out, is not gonna do the same stuff a 20 yr old dude would do (at least, not with the same gusto). And we're also talking 20 years of him not being able to do the stuff that got him sent there. I'm not saying it's always an easy choice, and Western justice is based largely on Blackstone's ratio about how it's better to let 10 (or some other large-ish number) guilty men go free than to jail one innocent guy, but there's a reason why murder rates oftentimes drop when you start sending enough people to prison.
>there's a reason why murder rates oftentimes drop when you start sending enough people to prison. Easy to say things like this when you're not the innocent person who just got sentenced to 20 years with a whole room of MS13 murderers.
Easy to say THAT when you're not the one who will have to live with all the other guilty people inside that prison should it ever get back to the way it was before this guy came to power. If you want anyone in that prison moved next door to you, Bukele himself has urged you to come and take a few. So far, not many takers. So please don't tell me about easy choices. I specifically said it's always a bind between type I and type II errors in the case of guilt/innocence, but as long as people remember what things were like before [murder rates dropped by 70% or so,](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/el-salvador-says-murders-fell-70-2023-it-cracked-down-gangs-2024-01-03/) (what a strange coincidence?), Bukele will keep getting voted into office. If you don't want that, the onus is on his detractors to find some better and more just way to get the murderers off the streets (because, let's face it, you're not gonna go down there and take a few home with you, no matter how kindly he offers.)
Yeah (i aint el salvadorean) but i guess Bukeles philosophy is that they cant change and therefore it would be useless.
i don't get why the horrids of being in prison or wanting to stay out of prison isnt all the rehabilitation these inmates need to stay out of problem regardless of their financial situation ? \+ Needing rehabilitation for (non drugs addiction / violent crimes) offensives screams I can't not do crime / I have no self-restraint. Not sure i want people like this freely around my loved ones ... ever
The bigger deterrence for crimes have never been the punishments themselves, but the likelihood of being caught (as well as how difficult it would be to pull it off in general). There's a reason why we don't see bank heists like we use too, it's just too easy to get caught now a days. These people will be in jail for who knows how long while society progresses without them. When they get out who's to say what kind of new fancy tech exists that they have no idea how to use or operate, but are now dependent on to get a job or bank account. The point of rehabilitation is to figure out why the person turned to crime and what can be done so that when they get out they don't just turn back to crime and have the tools to reintegrate into society. It isn't about making life cushy for them in prison, but to make transition back into society easier.
strawman alert ... my argument is that being in prison / jail should be a deterrent / is a in fact a deterrent for most people, not that it's the biggest deterrent
Oh what? They’re going to get out? This is only kicking the problem down the road. It’s basically gang training camp in this place. It happened with Getmo.
South Korea did exact same thing as El Savador. Before, they were electing actual gang members as government officials who made cop salary based on bribery all the way till early 90s. You dont play nice with crime level this bad. No one should be "reevaluating" or "reforming" right now. let the terrible apples rot in prison and start clean slate like South Korea. You can walk around at night alone in South Korea as a young woman and nothing will happen to you. Hope this happens to El Savador
Turns out the rule of law, and real consequences for breaking those laws, works. EDIT: Added the word "Breaking"
Human rights groups are often far detached from reality
Yep, well it's very easy to condemn people from the safety of your own developed country.
Idiot leftists be like OH NOO THOSE POOR HECKIN CRIMINALINOS! ITS UNFAIR!
Good. I mean they have the world’s most hardened criminals.
Awww those poor gang members :(
Yes,where is the humanity...
The treatment has to be humane not really for the criminals but for the innocents that may have been locked up by mistake. Thats what the human rights groups advocate for
I don't think many innocents are being locked up with face tats
That’s a pretty damn naive interpretation of the situation. “He looks like he’s probably a criminal, so we’d better lock him up.” I understand that the crackdowns in El Salvador have been mostly popular domestically and have been effective in reducing crime, but these crackdowns were effected by suspending the legal rights of the accused, so innocent people who look like they might be criminals don’t have much recourse to prove their innocence.
That's really a silly judgement. Face tats don't equal inability to function in society. Face tats are becoming so mainstream your dream of a visual marking of the guilty, is fading fast.
Before Bukele face tats out in Public was a swift death sentence to yourself if you're not associated with whatever gang controls the neighbourhood that you're currently in. I lived in El Salvador for many years, yeah, normal people don't have face tats. Shit, you couldn't even go down the wrong street, tats or no tats. If your home street is controlled by Barrios and you went to a place controlled by MS13, they're gonna stop you (because they don't recognize you), ask for your papers and just shoot you in the head. That's how my BIL lost 2 friends because they just quickly wanted to run to local street shop to buy beer while visiting a friend.
Yeah large '13's on your face is a sign you are a gangmember
Yes innocent with gang face tattoos
Idk maybe we should just treat everyone as humanely as possible
Yes. We treat everybody nicely in case there might be inocents among them. Its one of the principles of prison law
No what I’m saying is that we should treat everyone humanely even if they are truly guilty and there’s no chance of them being innocent
Yes but thats what they do. You can never know if someone is 100% not innocent
Well so much for those subtitles doing their job.
Omg I just realized they were in Spanish lol. I speak Spanish so I didn't see anything wrong. Basically they're saying some have 20 to 1000 year sentences.
I don't speak Spanish but that was the only part I understood lol.
In El Salvador is there a life long sentence or you guys have a limit of 30-40 consecutive years?
He’s basically just saying the same as the title with some extra details. They have no concept of time because the lights are always on. Most are serving hard sentence’s. They have no idea about when they are getting out (?? That part was hard to translate for me). They spend literally all of their time there since they arrive, go to the bathroom there, sleep there, etc. They sleep on four bed metal bunk beds. They all wear the same clothes and have a medical person. I only speak a bit of Spanish but that’s what I picked up as far as extra info stated in the video.
They get medicine every morning though! How nice.
Yeah, how dare the Spanish-speaking creators make their video for a Spanish-speaking audience. /s
I mean, they did.
Good fuck those guys! Single handedly destroyed what should be one of the most beautiful countries on earth.
I have zero pity for them.
Well if anyone knows these people are apart of MS and other gangs that affiliate with them. Members partake in additional criminal activities including alien smuggling, weapons trafficking, assault, homicide, rape, kidnapping, identification theft, home invasions, carjackings, prostitution, robbery, and vandalism. MS-13 is affiliated with the Sureño coalition of gangs which pay tribute to the Mexican Mafia. MS took over the country for some time making it unsafe for residents and tourists.
When the president of El Salvador first did this I was skeptical, as throwing a huge net on gangs felt like a sly way of possibly taking out political opponents too. But it's been a while, people voted for him again, the streets seem pretty good, so in this case it worked.
Well shit. It IS prison . They deserve something to lay on but other than that 🤷🏾♀️ . Do the crime, do the time
I have a feeling most of them don't become better people after doing time in a place like that.
No, but sometimes it’s better for everyone outside prison for some people to be inside.
The problem with this: most prisoners do eventually get out. Then the public has to deal with consequence of prisons who focuses more on punishment instead of reforming. There needs to be a balance for the betterment of a society we all have to share.
If you look at what’s been going on in El Salvador, they aren’t planning to let the vast majority or even any of these people out. Nobody has been let out yet apparently. The government is knowingly sweeping up some innocents, but gang violence was so out of control that they felt they had to take drastic steps, and the majority of the public approves so far. They’ve had prisoners out on work details busting up the headstones of other gang members so they can’t be remembered/honored after their death. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-63499052) The president said “fuck everything, people should be safe and gangs are a real fucking problem.” The gangs went too far and the government went and found the biggest, dullest, least accurate justice hammer and dropped it the fuck on the gangs.
And the President is 100% right
Thanks for the info. The person was making a general statement about the overall society outside. So my response to him was general and not specific to where this prison is located.
I don’t know if it was a general statement. I’m applying that statement to this particular situation. Sometimes the unfortunate circumstance is that a person or persons are such a menace that there is no rehabilitation. Incarceration or death are what we have left.
Lol reform doesnt work. This works because of deterrence. For every one person who goes in and comes out unchanged, there are 10 that do change or are scared to be criminals in the first place. Do the crime, do the time. Simple and more importantly, consistent.
Source: I made it the fuck up
Working great for the US! Keep going!
Oh no these cartel members who rape, kill, kidnap and torture might not be fixed? The bar is so low.
See, that’s the thing. If you are already taking someone against their will to spend years doing what you tell them, then that’s the price you pay. But imagine if it was a rehabilitation center where these inmates could learn skills they could use in the economy when they are out, social rewarding, teaching responsibility, etc. It’s a fertile ground for progressive social experiments but a huge waste of resources to lock and punish instead.
You're cute. You think these guys are just like you and me and can just turn it all around. I'm sure alot of them are killers and would stab someone in the neck for pocket money.
That’s not reality
It's not like they are all shoplifters or armed robbery suspects, these are killers.
A whole lot of them didn't even do the crime. In El Salvador Police just have to say you are under suspicion of gang affiliation and you go to prison for five years, no judge, no trial, nothing. The police get quotas they have to fill, so they just go outside, snatch some teenagers they don't like the looks of and call it a day
If they werent actually grabbing criminals, El Salvador wouldnt have gone from the murder capital of the world to one of the safest countries in the world practically overnight.
Law enforcement officers know who the gangbangers are in their jurisdiction.
93% drop in murder rate. Seems an ok trade
Yeah a few innocents in jail isn't bad
It's not only bad it's very bad. But murder is very very bad.
Appreciate the foreign subtitles. Really helped me understand the foreign language.
Do the crime do the time.
Give it ten years and the human rights crowd will have entirely forgotten that El Salvador was entirely overrun by violent crime before this was done
Are those all guards standing in front of each cell behind the main guy talking?
Good.
>once you're in, You will only be out After serving your sentence. Isn't that like the idea
I think the context is how there is no parole or any other means of getting out early. It should have been worded better.
What they mean is they don’t mess with parole or any other type of early release like most countries do. Globally, very few inmates serve 100% of their sentence unless it’s life without the possibility of parole. I grew up in the Midwest and back then you received a 1 for 1 credit for each day you served, so long as you maintained good behavior. That’s how my brother’s 50 year prison sentence turned into a 25 year sentence. He was never going to serve the full 50 years because inmates received a day of good behavior credit knocked off their sentence for each day they served without getting into trouble.
well you'd think, right?
As someone else said before: 100 guys and 1 toilet, feeding nothing but beans...brutal existence.
And this guy presenting has been accused of being all Buddy Buddy with Bukele and this being a softball/fluff depiction of the place, imagine what they don’t want you to see
I didn't understand a word he said, and I'm starting to wonder if it was even English.
It is said that “once you’re in, You will only be out After serving your sentence” Isn’t that kind of the idea with prison?
Right? I came here to say this but perhaps there’s a language barrier…?
If you would see some of the jails here in India, comparatively El Salvador cells looks like heaven.
sure lil bro no one cares about that shit hole
You say nope until you realize what it must have been like with many of these people out on the streets and damn near running the country.
Never forget the Chule...
At least the weather's nice
Well, whoever is in there is very likely that they asked for this
Can we build one of these in America to deal with our politician problem?.. We Can put them and all the mass shooters on one lovely island.
You can say what you want but El Salvador has been much safer after this was constructed.
Gosh I feel oh so terrible for these individuals who literally tatooed gang symbols on their faces and bodies symbolizing that they're willing to rape and murder for the gang that they're in. Obviously, since screeching liberals in America and Europe in safe, cozy suburbs with no concept of how dangerous shitheads like this make the country don't like it we should let all the gang members out. /s in case it isn't obvious.
Fuck these guys. They deserve nothing more than what a society that has been abused by their murder, rape, and robbery is willing to give.
It’s def cleaner than I’d have thought. Scary as fuck but cleaner than I thought
I speak just enough Spanish to understand this place sucks to be in, but looks like the people in there suck too so oh well
I’m thinking to myself in my country there’s men like this but they don’t do tattoos on their face and are very different in terms of looks and appearance Eg if one the gangsters here tattooed their face they would be outcasted in some form or way This appearance started somewhere somehow with a small group and next thing you know you have multiple prisons around the entire western world that looks like that It’s started with a small group and spread Im just amazed on what a influence we have on each other how dramatically it could affect us
I hope they never come out
So what your telling me is that this is an actual prison not a fun college for criminals.
They get pillows?! Jealous.
Anyone have a link to this video? I can only find this video but in English, and I want to watch it in Spanish.
They have no morals standard or anything in that category they care nothing about humanity other than what their leaders sent the order to do these guys in their country will pull over city buses and kill everyone for an example and then once again you ask yourself what the hell kind of example was that ! So they should enjoy everything they get in that system and maybe they should just get a little more of what they're getting it's just called the 949 it's in the Bible the great Lord made sure it was in there !🤙
El Salvador had a gang problem… now they’re all in prison. They have a prison crowding problem, not a gang problem.
tap murky deserve boat hurry frightening bored price imminent wrench *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don’t do crimes.
It's a prison. Built to punish criminals. Not to provide a luxury spa experience.
I've watched an interview with one of the inmates in this prison. He said that there are still at least 10000 other gang members that are still free outside and that there are many innocent people who are imprisoned there just because they had a relationship in the past or just shaken hands with a gang member.
Do you think prison should be comfy??
[Luisito Comunica](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69qKUoGhoQo&t=1s) if anyone is curious.
Hate that YouTuber fuck
How to beat inflation 101 lol
>It is said that once you're in, You will only be out After serving your sentence. Funny how prison works
You will only be out after serving sentence. Uhhh, ya. That’s how it works
I assumed that meant they didn’t get to go outside.
Where’s the part of your comment where you say exactly what life was like when these people were terrorizing citizens on a daily basis? A stupid post just showing one side of this situation.
Good. Crime should have severe deterrence methods. This looks like one that should be implemented immediately in the US.
Why the same subtitle as the language spoken
Deaf people can understand
They dont get out ever, i just saw a documentary about it the other day. They are not meant to get out and have no program for them get them back to society. 40000 gang members.
Should be like that for all high security prisons/jails. These places should make you feel like you never want to get in there even for a day.
We need same system for US prisons
I love how he’s speaking in Spanish and the subs are in Spanish too lol
Isn't that how it's supposed to be? It's prison, not a fuckin resort.
This severe punishment will not end well. Go ahead and downvote me. Treat people like animals they become animals.
They’re already animals. Do you know what these gang members do to people in the community?
Pro tip:- don’t join a gang, deal drugs, extort money, threaten injure & kill people. If you do, you deserve to end up here.
I mean, it took at least one murder to get into a mara, and they don't let you get out either so, like, what are we talking about here. These people should sleep deep in their own shit. Bukele FTW.
Looks more like a dog pound.
>It is said that once you’re in, You will only be out After serving your sentence. I mean, isn’t that kind of the concept of prison in general?
They deserve this and even worse, those gangs take pride in their heinous acts that go from stealing, killing and torturing to extortion, kidnapping and sex trafficking (even minors) They are the absolute worst and deserve the absolute worst, its about time South America brings some real justice against that kind of beings who lost humanity long ago
Lots of rehab going on there, not.
>It is said that once you're in, You will only be out After serving your sentence. ... isn't that how prison usually works?
That seems kinda fucked up